Berserker Meta Discussion
If AC bosses lasted half as long as HOTW bosses, we wouldn’t be in this situation.
But AC isn’t designed for high levels. Buy some level 35 masterwork, or even rare, gear and say that AC bosses don’t last a little while. When we all run low level dungeons in level 80 exotics, the results are disingenuous to the difficulty scale they were making the dungeon. There’s no balance that can be found to make it a reasonable effort for a team of players level 35-45, while still requiring effort from level 80s.
Addressing scaling would be a good start. They did that a few weeks back and people raged, but I thought it was a great idea. Should only hurt those that are above what the dungeon is based around.
So, yeah you’re right, but I’d not suggest they raise the hp of AC enemies, but that they address the scaling so we have our damage cut for the scaled down characters, not those trying to do it at the correct level. Scaling will never make it completely equal, but right now it’s pretty insane.
If AC bosses lasted half as long as HOTW bosses, we wouldn’t be in this situation.
But AC isn’t designed for high levels. Buy some level 35 masterwork, or even rare, gear and say that AC bosses don’t last a little while. When we all run low level dungeons in level 80 exotics, the results are disingenuous to the difficulty scale they were making the dungeon. There’s no balance that can be found to make it a reasonable effort for a team of players level 35-45, while still requiring effort from level 80s.
Addressing scaling would be a good start. They did that a few weeks back and people raged, but I thought it was a great idea. Should only hurt those that are above what the dungeon is based around.
So, yeah you’re right, but I’d not suggest they raise the hp of AC enemies, but that they address the scaling so we have our damage cut for the scaled down characters, not those trying to do it at the correct level. Scaling will never make it completely equal, but right now it’s pretty insane.
It’s not so much a scaling issue as it is a stat combination issue. You’re hard pressed at level 35 to find triple stats on any set, so you’re much further spread out. The only realistic way they could make it “balanced” is to nearly cut the stats we get scaled down to by a third…that’s just…disproportionately disrespectful. There’s no serious way you can scale the content properly without having a different set of gear. It sounds nice, but it’s not a possibility.
The other solution is make dungeons all level 80. And then maybe scale players up.
But AC isn’t designed for high levels. Buy some level 35 masterwork, or even rare, gear and say that AC bosses don’t last a little while. When we all run low level dungeons in level 80 exotics, the results are disingenuous to the difficulty scale they were making the dungeon. There’s no balance that can be found to make it a reasonable effort for a team of players level 35-45, while still requiring effort from level 80s.
While I can agree with this statement, it just brings us into some other broken aspects of the game:
- There’s an obvious lack of content for lvl80 characters
- Reward balance is pure crap
Pretty much. The dungeon meta is tiresome. Honestly, I don’t know how anyone can even enjoy doing the same dungeons after 18-22+ months of cheesing it. Not to mention they have a perfect way of introducing level 80 dungeons…it’s called Fractals. Then of course nobody wanted the Abaddon fractal, or if they did – they sacced it for lower WP costs. So that’s one “dungeon” we’ll never see.
The politics in-game and out-of-game are nearly as bad, it seems.
Fractals have a pretty different implementation compared to dungeons, while I really enjoy them, there are some things that really turn me off them at times that dungeons do better. If dungeons were as interesting as fractals you’d have some pretty awesome content.
And yeah, for sure ont he 2 stats vs 3 stats, but right now we also have a scaling system that when they adjusted Ferocity back last april we shot up in damage going from needing 3-4 FGS rushes to down spider queen, to it dying before the initial 2 finished. Pretty night and day difference in damage potential thanks to that update. I still want them to fix whatever they did back then, but at this point I’ve given up on hoping for it.
Fractals have a pretty different implementation compared to dungeons, while I really enjoy them, there are some things that really turn me off them at times that dungeons do better. If dungeons were as interesting as fractals you’d have some pretty awesome content.
And yeah, for sure ont he 2 stats vs 3 stats, but right now we also have a scaling system that when they adjusted Ferocity back last april we shot up in damage going from needing 3-4 FGS rushes to down spider queen, to it dying before the initial 2 finished. Pretty night and day difference in damage potential thanks to that update. I still want them to fix whatever they did back then, but at this point I’ve given up on hoping for it.
it wasnt ferocity that made it crazy. Its because they nerfed traits. Then they had to nerf all content, especially dungeons, to compensate for people losing a lot of power.
a level 30 player now, has 400 less attribute points, and is missing two adept traits. nerfing passive stats, actually increases the comparitive effect of might, and less access to traits tends to make it less likely to obtain full boons.
basically the heavy nerf is needed because a level 30, with less stats, and no traits, is so much weaker than they used to be. The only way they could nerf level 80s would to actually make them a lot weaker than level 30s are, but problem with that is not every level 80 is actually making the best use of their skills and traits/runes
Cool, well wahtever it is, it needs adjustments, that or at least people should shut up about it, if we have purposefully nerfed content and people are trying to change the mechanics of the game because that content is too easy… well, am I the only one who thinks that’s crazy here?
Cool, well wahtever it is, it needs adjustments, that or at least people should shut up about it, if we have purposefully nerfed content and people are trying to change the mechanics of the game because that content is too easy… well, am I the only one who thinks that’s crazy here?
problem is, overall their design has become a lot less pure and unified.
there are no easy solutions.
they decided to make the game more level gated and put more things at a higher level, but this clashes with their desires to make content viable and entertaining at all levels.
They want Ascalon to be entertaining for level 80s, but they also want it to be entertaining for level 30s. At the same time they want level 30s to be weaker so that people feel more value in being 80.
Essentially, yeah the design itself is the problem.
They cant make this small repeatable, all levels world they wanted to make, and at the same time put in place the same progression structures that make being lower level drastically different from being higher level.
it just doesnt work out.
Maybe the QQ zerk scene will also get somewhere, someday.
It’s well known that the bleed cap is being lifted in the expansion, increasing the value of condition builds.
So, yes, the movement to bring other stat combinations closer to berserker is making progress. It’ll be interesting to see how well power/precision/condition damage builds do in the future.
It’s kind of disappointing too. More stat diversity turns ascended gear into even more of a gold sink. At the moment I can move my ascended armor around between characters of the same armor weight without any significant issues.
Stat diversity means “make another set or fall behind”.
Sure, the condi cap thing. What happens then though? If they will be just as effective as berserker but not more effective, nobody will bother. If they will be more effective than berserker, that will break the whole game because the risk-reward ratio will be imbalanced (you can run a toughness build with condi dmg and kill stuff just as well as a glass-cannon).
The zerker meta discussion is generally about instances anyway, so if a blob of 80 people can stack bleeds on a boss to infinity is not really important.
No one’s saying that they want a toughness/condition damage build to do as much damage as power/precision/ferocity.
I’m saying that Power/Precision/Condition Damage (Rampager and Sinister) should do as much as damage as Power/Precision/Ferocity on average. 3 offensive stats vs 3 offensive stats.
I’m saying that Power/Precision/Condition Damage (Rampager and Sinister) should do as much as damage as Power/Precision/Ferocity on average. 3 offensive stats vs 3 offensive stats.
Pretty sure it already does, just slower and there’s the cap.
Problem with allof this is that pve and wvw are combined and condis are already op in wvw since last april, so raise the condi cap in both areas and wvw goes boom (and I condi, I always wanted to become the most annoying condi thief there is but problem is I like power a lot better).
Cool, well wahtever it is, it needs adjustments, that or at least people should shut up about it, if we have purposefully nerfed content and people are trying to change the mechanics of the game because that content is too easy… well, am I the only one who thinks that’s crazy here?
problem is, overall their design has become a lot less pure and unified.
there are no easy solutions.
they decided to make the game more level gated and put more things at a higher level, but this clashes with their desires to make content viable and entertaining at all levels.
They want Ascalon to be entertaining for level 80s, but they also want it to be entertaining for level 30s. At the same time they want level 30s to be weaker so that people feel more value in being 80.
Essentially, yeah the design itself is the problem.
They cant make this small repeatable, all levels world they wanted to make, and at the same time put in place the same progression structures that make being lower level drastically different from being higher level.
it just doesnt work out.
It may never be perfect but it can be better than it is.
If AC bosses lasted half as long as HOTW bosses, we wouldn’t be in this situation.
But AC isn’t designed for high levels. Buy some level 35 masterwork, or even rare, gear and say that AC bosses don’t last a little while. When we all run low level dungeons in level 80 exotics, the results are disingenuous to the difficulty scale they were making the dungeon. There’s no balance that can be found to make it a reasonable effort for a team of players level 35-45, while still requiring effort from level 80s.
Addressing scaling would be a good start. They did that a few weeks back and people raged, but I thought it was a great idea. Should only hurt those that are above what the dungeon is based around.
So, yeah you’re right, but I’d not suggest they raise the hp of AC enemies, but that they address the scaling so we have our damage cut for the scaled down characters, not those trying to do it at the correct level. Scaling will never make it completely equal, but right now it’s pretty insane.
It was a bug therefore it was fixed. Don’t spread misinformation.
The other solution is make dungeons all level 80. And then maybe scale players up.
That would be amazing. Make all story dungeons a personal story steps (like they’re going to do with Arah) and scale all explorables to lvl 80. This way new players won’t get a wrong impression that they are not welcome at lvl 35 dungeon and the difficulty will be paired with 80s.
But AC isn’t designed for high levels. Buy some level 35 masterwork, or even rare, gear and say that AC bosses don’t last a little while. When we all run low level dungeons in level 80 exotics, the results are disingenuous to the difficulty scale they were making the dungeon. There’s no balance that can be found to make it a reasonable effort for a team of players level 35-45, while still requiring effort from level 80s.
While I can agree with this statement, it just brings us into some other broken aspects of the game:
- There’s an obvious lack of content for lvl80 characters
- Reward balance is pure crap
Pretty much. The dungeon meta is tiresome. Honestly, I don’t know how anyone can even enjoy doing the same dungeons after 18-22+ months of cheesing it. Not to mention they have a perfect way of introducing level 80 dungeons…it’s called Fractals. Then of course nobody wanted the Abaddon fractal, or if they did – they sacced it for lower WP costs. So that’s one “dungeon” we’ll never see.
The politics in-game and out-of-game are nearly as bad, it seems.
The dungeon meta is tiring to you – it might be boring to you but others enjoy “cheesing it” for as long as they have. Or they enjoy the rewards.
Either way – to change dungeons now ( change mechanics ) and make them harder without upping the rewards is to ensure they won’t be played anymore.
Look at dungeon paths that don’t have a high reward/difficulty ratio. Look at SE p2. See how nobody does it? It’ll happen for most paths if they’re made harder with the rewards staying the same.
I too would love more fractals. I too would have loved a fractal with Abaddon. Sadly it was not to be.
I would also love better FOTM rewards that actually matter and aren’t RNG.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Maybe the QQ zerk scene will also get somewhere, someday.
It’s well known that the bleed cap is being lifted in the expansion, increasing the value of condition builds.
So, yes, the movement to bring other stat combinations closer to berserker is making progress. It’ll be interesting to see how well power/precision/condition damage builds do in the future.
It’s kind of disappointing too. More stat diversity turns ascended gear into even more of a gold sink. At the moment I can move my ascended armor around between characters of the same armor weight without any significant issues.
Stat diversity means “make another set or fall behind”.
Sure, the condi cap thing. What happens then though? If they will be just as effective as berserker but not more effective, nobody will bother. If they will be more effective than berserker, that will break the whole game because the risk-reward ratio will be imbalanced (you can run a toughness build with condi dmg and kill stuff just as well as a glass-cannon).
The zerker meta discussion is generally about instances anyway, so if a blob of 80 people can stack bleeds on a boss to infinity is not really important.No one’s saying that they want a toughness/condition damage build to do as much damage as power/precision/ferocity.
I’m saying that Power/Precision/Condition Damage (Rampager and Sinister) should do as much as damage as Power/Precision/Ferocity on average. 3 offensive stats vs 3 offensive stats.
And if they fix the cap on condis they might actually do a similar amount of damage.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
And if they fix the cap on condis they might actually do a similar amount of damage.
No. Condition build will see be being in term of dps in group situation. Several condition build won’t screw themselves, but individually, their dps will still be inferior. Damage modifier + vulnerability make the difference there.
Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD
What a stupid idea.