Guild Wars 2

“And finally, we’re looking to normalize damage for the elementalist so that it is not effectively the best-in-slot for damage, support, and survivability in all scenarios.”

-Mark Katzbach

All those dps Elementalist in Spvp and wvw i see.
Those revs who’s regen’s which is like a billion times better then ours.
Survivability, yep we have to point our entire gear set and spec into healing power to get that survivability.

I don’t PvE much on my Elementalist but im pretty sure this is absurd there too.

Genesis.5169:

“And finally, we’re looking to normalize damage for the elementalist so that it is not effectively the best-in-slot for damage, support, and survivability in all scenarios.”

-Mark Katzbach

All those dps Elementalist in Spvp and wvw i see.
Those revs who’s regen’s which revs like a billion times better then ours.
Survivability, yep we have to point our entire gear set and spec into healing power to get that survivability.

I don’t PvE much on my Elementalist but im pretty sure this is absurd there too.

That quote made me laugh, I don’t know what game they are playing.

Elementalist is the best profession ever. It deserves all the best things. I’m glad to see it get as much power as it can and I hope it gets more. Infinite power.

Lmao like rev healer doesnt need to build healer to get value from ventari dont make me laugh. Tempest can bring strong support through auras aoe in a radious healing (without any real aiming) and buffed up protection. Tempest is an excelent healer spec.

And it was rightfully nerfed because its terrible design to have an entire trait line be picked because of 2 overloads. Ill tell you a good joke my self : This game’s community.

I think the quote is being mis-read or maybe I am just reading it from a different perspective. Ele can dps, heal and survive all-in-one meaning they don’t want this to be the case. Ele in WvW is hard to kill built like this (not complaining as it is what it is) and I think they want this not to be a one slot build where you can have the best of all three worlds in one build.

Most professions you have to choose what you want to do. If you choose a little survivalability (not a real word but eh)you loose some dps. Glass cannon dps you gonna melt fast and so on. So imo they are focusing on an area where all three that makes one build and maybe force the player to choose one or two aspects and if you choose all three then you will fail at some point. BUT you have to include the rest of the paragraph to get a better context as not to possibly mislead so here it is:

“To this end, we are modifying the functionality for a few skills that unintentionally overperform against large hit-box targets, in addition to a select few damage reductions.”

usnedward.9023:

I think the quote is being mis-read or maybe I am just reading it from a different perspective. Ele can dps, heal and survive all-in-one meaning they don’t want this to be the case. Ele in WvW is hard to kill built like this (not complaining as it is what it is) and I think they want this not to be a one slot build where you can have the best of all three worlds in one build.

Most professions you have to choose what you want to do. If you choose a little survivalability (not a real word but eh)you loose some dps. Glass cannon dps you gonna melt fast and so on. So imo they are focusing on an area where all three that makes one build and maybe force the player to choose one or two aspects and if you choose all three then you will fail at some point. BUT you have to include the rest of the paragraph to get a better context as not to possibly mislead so here it is:

“To this end, we are modifying the functionality for a few skills that unintentionally overperform against large hit-box targets, in addition to a select few damage reductions.”

Uh huh, what are you talking about now, Revs and Druids are better healers, Every class has better sustainability with out having to go full healing gear and change and entire spec for it. And no i didn’t stack it out of context that what the statement said your taking what you want from it.

Also there are no glass cannon ele’s in pvp wvw at all find me one i promise he’s either gets nothing done or he sucks and cannot comprehend that he sucks.

A nerf to overload air and fire made no sense because it was only viable for dps and at that for glass dps and at that in pve only AND AT THAT JUST RAIDS.

Every scenario clearly only means raids anyone can see this.

Elementalist was incredibly overpowered over all profs for ages. Now it’s just overpowered. Sure, that’s a major nerf, but it’s exactly the sort of thing that should happen in balance patch: rebalancing the profs so they are more comparable.

Yeah, I laughed when I read this. Ele actually started getting to a good place regarding dps vs sustain. According to Anet, every WvW player, every pvp player and every Raid has all eles cause it’s the best at everything at once in game.

Please.

The two irreplaceable support classes in the game is currently PS and chrono memser. The only game mode where ele are used for support is wvw, because they have most access to condi cleanses and water fields.

Druid is the lonely king at the healer throne.

Elementalists is a pure DPS class, with the lowest health and armor, and are completely and utterly replaceable if any other DPS build is better.

“best-in-slot for damage, support, and survivability” is a joke, and one in a bad taste.

Ele had Best survivability? Why was I one-shotted so often then in PvP by thieves and guardians?

Without the restoration of Celestial I’ll be doomed on remaining on the losing end of the battles. But well. I mostly gave up on this. I’ll get points also for losing. in the end, I’ll get the rank anyways. It just takes longer.

TheQuickFox.3826:

Ele had Best survivability? Why was I one-shotted so often then in PvP by thieves and guardians?

Without the restoration of Celestial I’ll be doomed on remaining on the losing end of the battles. But well. I mostly gave up on this. I’ll get points also for losing. in the end, I’ll get the rank anyways. It just takes longer.

You shouldn’t be one shorted by thieves or guardians. Did you consider the possibility that you aren’t good?

Or a bad build for the context. I’m terrible at ele but understand that pure glass Fire/Air/Arcane isn’t a good trait config for small-scale, which was why I also stopped playing ele :P

I think the main issue was that the ele was strong with all three despite not needing to invest really in any. Base healing on ele is better than druid and ventari rev, but those out-scale when built for healing. The same is said about tanking as a warrior/guardian, or (aside from AOE multi-hits) raw DPS like thief.

Does not change validity of concerns of whether or not the developers understand their game, however.

Genesis.5169:

usnedward.9023:

I think the quote is being mis-read or maybe I am just reading it from a different perspective. Ele can dps, heal and survive all-in-one meaning they don’t want this to be the case. Ele in WvW is hard to kill built like this (not complaining as it is what it is) and I think they want this not to be a one slot build where you can have the best of all three worlds in one build.

Most professions you have to choose what you want to do. If you choose a little survivalability (not a real word but eh)you loose some dps. Glass cannon dps you gonna melt fast and so on. So imo they are focusing on an area where all three that makes one build and maybe force the player to choose one or two aspects and if you choose all three then you will fail at some point. BUT you have to include the rest of the paragraph to get a better context as not to possibly mislead so here it is:

“To this end, we are modifying the functionality for a few skills that unintentionally overperform against large hit-box targets, in addition to a select few damage reductions.”

Uh huh, what are you talking about now, Revs and Druids are better healers, Every class has better sustainability with out having to go full healing gear and change and entire spec for it. And no i didn’t stack it out of context that what the statement said your taking what you want from it.

Also there are no glass cannon ele’s in pvp wvw at all find me one i promise he’s either gets nothing done or he sucks and cannot comprehend that he sucks.

A nerf to overload air and fire made no sense because it was only viable for dps and at that for glass dps and at that in pve only AND AT THAT JUST RAIDS.

Every scenario clearly only means raids anyone can see this.

Dude…calm down. We are talking ele’s, your complaint and and my response. My response was not towards other professions. I am merely pointing out the way I took ANETs post. You wear cloth…um..cloth means you are weak so you must do damage unless you build in sustain and heals.

I still take the response from ANET is that it is nerfing a build that takes advantage of all in one build and that is how I see it. In PvE it is hard to see it, only in PvP and WvW can you see where ele is built for sustain, heals and damage all in one and to this I see why they are making the change.

Whether you and I agree or disagree on the nerf is not the point. Your responses are clearly in anger and I would suggest you adapt because ANET sees something you don’t, others do and your complaining in anger will not change their mind.

Elementalist by design are jacks of all trades. However, every since HoT went live and the Tempest came out they went from “masters of none” to “masters of all”. Many of the meta builds for Elementalist resulted in a combination of high damage, high sustain, and strong support. There is no other class that is capable of that. As a result, ANet has finally taken action and reduced their output in some areas in an attempt to insure that they won’t be strong in all 3 areas at once anymore. They want elementalist to be strong in one area and moderate in the other two.

Before the nerf it was too easy to obtain high output in all three areas. Sure there may have been a lot of players who were narrow focused on a singular area. But the fact remains that they could easily obtain high output in damage, sustain, and support quite easily.

Reducing the damage of their top performing abilities, most notably their AoE’s against large hitbox enemies (which ANet has on multiple occasions made clear that the excessive damage output of AoEs against such targets was unintended), insures that a player has to focus build for damage to get the high damage numbers they saw before with minimal input.

Elementalist support builds already require some investment, and the stat change from Boon Duration to Concentration is already reducing their performance as is. Additionally the same change is impacting other support builds as well.

Elementalist sustain is in the same boat as support and for the most is also impacted by the boon duration nerf.

The end result of this patch is that elementalists actually have to focus build in each areas to get the performance they used to be able to get from all three simultaneously.

Ele is always the top of spectrum in term of support and dps, what game are you playing?

usnedward.9023:

I still take the response from ANET is that it is nerfing a build that takes advantage of all in one build and that is how I see it.

That’s not what they did however.

usnedward.9023:

In PvE it is hard to see it, only in PvP and WvW can you see where ele is built for sustain, heals and damage all in one and to this I see why they are making the change.

Okay, please, do show me that OP build from sPvP that did all 3 of those things, and did them well.
Because last i saw ele builds were mainly built around going full sustain, if they wanted to last more than few seconds against any opponent.

DeceiverX.8361:

I think the main issue was that the ele was strong with all three despite not needing to invest really in any. Base healing on ele is better than druid and ventari rev, but those out-scale when built for healing. The same is said about tanking as a warrior/guardian, or (aside from AOE multi-hits) raw DPS like thief.

But… isn’t that sort of the point of elementalist? The use of attunements to effectively alternate between four different roles? If they have to specialize their gear to one role or another role like most classes just to be functional, it undermines the point of their profession. Elementalist skills really should be less responsive to stats, both on the high and the low side.

Astralporing.1957:

usnedward.9023:

I still take the response from ANET is that it is nerfing a build that takes advantage of all in one build and that is how I see it.

That’s not what they did however.

usnedward.9023:

In PvE it is hard to see it, only in PvP and WvW can you see where ele is built for sustain, heals and damage all in one and to this I see why they are making the change.

Okay, please, do show me that OP build from sPvP that did all 3 of those things, and did them well.
Because last i saw ele builds were mainly built around going full sustain, if they wanted to last more than few seconds against any opponent.

I stand by my interpretation that ANET doesn’t want this profession to be ALL THAT IN ONE. That is what I get out of it.

I don’t hate on the ele. I hate I can’t take ‘em out without some sneak attack burst but by all means watch this video. I take no credit as it is not mine but look at the cleanse, sustain, damage etc…. This is what I believe ANET is trying to point out. I don’t have an active ele… never enjoyed them… BUT I do go up against them and many are very close to this. Can’t point to a specific build because once again I do not play it nor do I care. I just want to beat them :P

I remember the outrage when they announced tempest before HoT release and then it quickly gained attention and people loved it. Later the same people complain now if it gets nerfed. Just jump the predictable and contemplate a bit. They just bring it in line with the rest. Ele was OP all the past 2 years, everyone and your mother knew it.

It’s always the same: class is op, it gets nerfed, people complain, they get used to it, they even forget it, they adapt. Next change: rinse and repeat.

I mean that would have been the case some patches ago, had they not dumpstered ele cooldowns and impacts with meteor shower.

As is, ele is far from the best at everything. It “can” be great at all things however, when it specializes. I.E it can be one of the best healers if it invest in it, it can be one of the best condi users if it invest in it etc….

But that’s more of a fundamental design flaw with their traits than anything else.

It’s not a surprise for me, it’s obvious weaver will be overpowered and anet want you to buy expansion, ammount of barriers will compensate healing. They said that professions (I hope all of the professions) will get barriers in basic traits. Ele’s best DD and you can barely find place for anything else in teams so I think small nerf is needed to force people to change their profession.

I also frowned while reading this. Although I main an ele (strictly PVE), the actual changes did not matter much to me, I just saw my DPS slightly decreased but nothing to rant about. I sincerely hope this message is just badly written, and what they actually mean is closer to what TexZero says some posts higher, otherwise I am worried what they will do next. I believe some posters on this thread have not played ele much, as they seem to think we can have strong dps, sustain and support in one build.

In PVE, ele still has very good potential DPS, but as noted above this is very inconsistent in real scenarios as the rotations are not simple and relies on fully casting overloads regularly, a 5 second period where the ele can only use instant skills and move, not dodge or switch attunements. This in addition to being very squishy. It takes a very good player in a very good team to pull off anything resembling the QT benchmarks in a real situation in high end PVE*. These builds do not provide more support than DPS builds of other classes, and DPS is often lower when the tempest tries to offer this support due to having to use non-DPS attunements.
If built for healing, tempest can heal very well, but it will not do meaningful damage anymore, and since it tends to overheal and brings little dps support either, druid is preferred.

In WvW and PvP I don’t have recent experience, but from what I read Ele is forced into a tradeoff between support and sustain there, with hardly any damage output, as building for DPS makes the ele a sitting duck. This outside some non-meta gimmick builds, which then again will not bring much support or sustain.

*As a side note, when DPS meters were allowed by Anet, people realised most tempests in raids were not even closely achieving that “OP” top DPS which made everyone think tempest was BIS for DPS. In real scenarios, easier-to-perform DPS builds from other classes often matched if not surpassed tempest DPS. This was before a few DPS nerfs to ele, especially on big targets.

usnedward.9023:

Astralporing.1957:

usnedward.9023:

I still take the response from ANET is that it is nerfing a build that takes advantage of all in one build and that is how I see it.

That’s not what they did however.

usnedward.9023:

In PvE it is hard to see it, only in PvP and WvW can you see where ele is built for sustain, heals and damage all in one and to this I see why they are making the change.

Okay, please, do show me that OP build from sPvP that did all 3 of those things, and did them well.
Because last i saw ele builds were mainly built around going full sustain, if they wanted to last more than few seconds against any opponent.

I stand by my interpretation that ANET doesn’t want this profession to be ALL THAT IN ONE. That is what I get out of it.

I don’t hate on the ele. I hate I can’t take ‘em out without some sneak attack burst but by all means watch this video. I take no credit as it is not mine but look at the cleanse, sustain, damage etc…. This is what I believe ANET is trying to point out. I don’t have an active ele… never enjoyed them… BUT I do go up against them and many are very close to this. Can’t point to a specific build because once again I do not play it nor do I care. I just want to beat them :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9HaQ_22__I

Yeah, all those hits for 200-500. Mighty dps indeed.
…seriously?
To inform you: no, there were no builds that could have top healing, sustain AND dps in one package. At best you could specialize in one of the three with a lesser secondary option. Usually, if you went for dps, you’d have to forego the other two. If you went for sustain, you would have to be okay with a massive dps drop.

The only joke on these forums is the players that constantly complain. About minuscule crap like this.

Here we are, talking about the balance of professions. It’s nice, but I don’t think it matters. There is no Player Versus Player content in Path of Fire. It’s normal to bring down all professions so that new expansion will sell better.

As a PvP player I have no incentive to buy the next expansion (Path of Fire). However, I feel very happy for all those PvE players that will receive new content and new specializations.

I agree with OP. Ele should be a glass cannon. I play PvE and see elementalist all the time come flying by and kill packs in seconds that take me way longer to kill on my revenant.

But then I see them get downed just by pulling too many groups. I don’t mind their dps at all, as it all evens out in the end.

I dont know what are you talking about, ele is most powerful profession in this game in all game modes.

Ragnarox.9601:

I dont know what are you talking about, ele is most powerful profession in this game in all game modes.

Can you explain that claim please as an ele player in pvp this belief escapes me what do you see that i do not?

people who don’t even play ele saying “nah they are fine, stop whining”, smh

silvermember.8941:

TheQuickFox.3826:

Ele had Best survivability? Why was I one-shotted so often then in PvP by thieves and guardians?

Without the restoration of Celestial I’ll be doomed on remaining on the losing end of the battles. But well. I mostly gave up on this. I’ll get points also for losing. in the end, I’ll get the rank anyways. It just takes longer.

You shouldn’t be one shorted by thieves or guardians. Did you consider the possibility that you aren’t good?

I’ll leave this judgement to others. I know the game, know my build, know my maps and played this Ele for around 2290 hours. In PvP, I only have silver/bronze skill levels. But when I’m killed in a few seconds, there is not much time to fight back.

TheQuickFox.3826:

silvermember.8941:

TheQuickFox.3826:

Ele had Best survivability? Why was I one-shotted so often then in PvP by thieves and guardians?

Without the restoration of Celestial I’ll be doomed on remaining on the losing end of the battles. But well. I mostly gave up on this. I’ll get points also for losing. in the end, I’ll get the rank anyways. It just takes longer.

You shouldn’t be one shorted by thieves or guardians. Did you consider the possibility that you aren’t good?

I’ll leave this judgement to others. I know the game, know my build, know my maps and played this Ele for around 2290 hours. In PvP, I only have silver/bronze skill levels. But when I’m killed in a few seconds, there is not much time to fight back.

Yes and no if your and auramancer you have options to get out of that bind untill you run out of cd’s although you prolly won’t kill your target but you’ll live. If you playing anything else like fresh air, or something your gonna die in about 2second there’s nothing u can do about it ele’s just aren’t built to last unless you build them to last and forgo any form of real damage in the process.