Guild Wars 2

Hello, title says it all ? me and my brother wan’t to play, but dont know what class’s would be good together ?

Anything + anything.

Guardian + Thief can pretty much get you through everything. They are FAR from being the best at specific task, but they have to a lot of utilities to get you thought different kind of situation. Thief will stealth and can run through stuff, guardian can protect the team, both can blind so much.

Elementalist + Warrior is a excellent dmg duo. Together, they can pretty much max most offensive buff of the game (not all of them, but almost). They will be ideal for speed running, but mistake can be costly and some content will be hard to go through.

Mesmer + anything can also be great. Mesmer have access to a lot of utilities that can be pretty awesome. Portal, TW, feedback, etc. They can make specific situation way more easier if you know how to use it.

But really, anything + anything is ok.

Bear + Bow.

If Guild Wars 2 had “Companions”, we could easily test this out.

Going to 2nd guardian + thief.

Maybe engi rather than theif? Engi can also stealth (a little more work) but can also has great utility for many different tasks (and good area affect damage/ range damage). Can double up on reflects too

more party buffs and condi removal from engi as well… I think. I’m biased cause I play one and was a terrible theif.

It really depends on the content.

I personally dislike warr/mes, and my favorite combinations (for Arah at least) tend to be either warr/warr, warr/ele, ele/thief, ele/guard.

However I recently tried warr/engi and it went pretty smooth.

Korossive.7085:

Bear + Bow.

There’s some truth to this. Rangers are good at a lot of the PvE stuff, and if you have two of them then you can go with just about any pets you want.

Bears are high HP, low damage. Good for distracting the enemy for you while you shoot them at range.
Wolves/dogs are a bit less HP, a bit more damage. A good mix.
Cats are a bit less HP and a bit more damage than wolves. Also a good mix, and can go into the water.
Birds are glass cannons. All damage, no HP.

guardian/engi work too. But I proposed guardian and thief because :

Thief will allow you to skip anything skippable. Engi little stealth won’t help my guardian much, the thief will.
Guardian can keep the team alive for a longer period, when you fight.
Thief have a higher dps than engi agaisnt smaller group (3 target and less), and when you duo, you want to fight smaller group than with a party of 5.
Thief can melee while almost constantly evading with sword/pistol.
Thief stealth can make some part of an instance way easier. Like the basement in CM path 1.

Guardian/Engie is good, but i prefer Guardian/Thief

Yeah I was trying to answer for the majority of content I’ve played. And in a generic sense an Engi can do a good job at filling in any gaps you’d need for specific situations. They’re versatile and yet still effective. I honestly think it’s the best done class in the game. In most games if you get the versatility, you sacrifice too much on effectiveness. Engis always feel at least “competitive” at what they try to do (from my PVE perspective). I really do admire the careful balance they’ve done. Good job devs!

Incidentally don’t discount an engi’s stealth. I think I’ve 14 seconded before when necessary. Had to smoke bomb, Big Ol Bomb, Thumper, sheild and then throw elixr. But you can get incredible stealth out of it when done right.

I’m really not sure on the final DPS count for theif vs engi in small groups. My bombs always seem to do alright (gernades just don’t do it for me from a play fun perspective), and the condi’s are a great kicker. Plus my runes give 7% damage against burning, which I can constantly keep up (even easier with guardian). I can’t be that far behind

The CC is a bonus too.

Guardian + whatever.

Face-roll the keyboard for 3 days.gg

When people do DPS damage comparisons, I’m always interested whether they’re factoring in sustainable DPS (eg an average over 10 min vs. 10 seconds). Whether they assume certain classes will have pre-mighted themselves, etc. etc. Whether they count those weapons sigils that grant stacks of corruption as being full already etc. Whether they factor in that in order to stand toe to toe and do max DPS you have to actually be able to survive it. Its all very very complex and I think will tend to lead itself to theoretical ideals that are not particularly practically realizeable.

You’re asking about open world PvE correct? If so, I’d say give Mesmer + Mesmer a shot. It’s a lot of fun with the two players and six illusions going you’ll have a pretty big “party” attacking the mobs.

shion.2084:

Incidentally don’t discount an engi’s stealth. I think I’ve 14 seconded before when necessary. Had to smoke bomb, Big Ol Bomb, Thumper, sheild and then throw elixr. But you can get incredible stealth out of it when done right.

I’m really not sure on the final DPS count for theif vs engi in small groups. My bombs always seem to do alright (gernades just don’t do it for me from a play fun perspective), and the condi’s are a great kicker. Plus my runes give 7% damage against burning, which I can constantly keep up (even easier with guardian). I can’t be that far behind

Ya the Engi can give some good stealth, but its a lot less practical. Thief can stealth the party for a longer period and with more ease.

Saying that thief have better dmg against small group don’t mean that Engi have a bad dps. But thief is the highest single target dps of the game. With dagger hitting 2 targets. But as you get more target, the engi will start to do more and more damage since it can hit more target each time.

Are you kidding? I went with a 5 mesmer multi dungeon run and between the 20 of us we breezed the places. Bosses were shocked. Mobs awed. We were running through, and a platoon of “us” went after us. It was a mess.

Edit: Was reply to Orion Templar

For boss fights where DPS is the most protracted, they are typically one target right? Do theives have most damage for that as well?

One thing to know about thieves: If they’re a stealth build you will get all the damage while they’re stealthed. It’s also rather hard to have to run after the mobs (as a stealthed thief) because the other person is running away. So maybe yeah guard is the best choice.
I love running with eles though as they have so many nice fields to do a combo with.

shion.2084:

For boss fights where DPS is the most protracted, they are typically one target right? Do theives have most damage for that as well?

Yeah, D/D thieves.

shion.2084:

For boss fights where DPS is the most protracted, they are typically one target right? Do theives have most damage for that as well?

Thief do the most single target dmg. So ya when there is only a boss, they are the best. Of course, they bring little offensive support, small amount of defensive support, average dmg against group of enemy and are squishy, so overall in a instance they are limited (1 or 2 thief are good, not more). But ya if you are only counting personnal dps against a boss, they are the best at that.

shion.2084:

For boss fights where DPS is the most protracted, they are typically one target right? Do theives have most damage for that as well?

They’re the best single target damage, I believe. But, they don’t take hits that well. Against a boss, they’ll spend more time dodging and avoiding than some other classes might have to, so their DPS may suffer for it.

Mind you, against REALLY tough bosses, everyone dodges.

Palador.2170:

They’re the best single target damage, I believe. But, they don’t take hits that well. Against a boss, they’ll spend more time dodging and avoiding than some other classes might have to, so their DPS may suffer for it.

Mind you, against REALLY tough bosses, everyone dodges.

Depends on the team – with a nice guardian and/or warrior I can stand in one spot and spam CnD and BS.

Thaddeus.4891:

shion.2084:

For boss fights where DPS is the most protracted, they are typically one target right? Do theives have most damage for that as well?

Thief do the most single target dmg in a full buff group.

Basically, when soloing…

1. Ele
2. Warrior
3. Engineer
4. Guardian
5. Mesmer
6. Thief
7. Necromancer
8. Ranger

The first group: self might-stacking, the second group: reflect + damage modifiers, the third group… roll eyes.

In that sense, a good PvE duo has a good (and sustainable) straight DPS and a good utility class (be it guardian, engineer, mesmer or thief and to a certain extent, ranger).

Good knowledge, thank you.

Iris Ng.9845:

Basically, when soloing…

1. Ele
2. Warrior
3. Engineer
4. Guardian
5. Mesmer
6. Thief
7. Necromancer
8. Ranger
   The first group: self might-stacking, the second group: reflect + damage modifiers, the third group… roll eyes.
   In that sense, a good PvE duo has a good (and sustainable) straight DPS and a good utility class (be it guardian, engineer, mesmer or thief and to a certain extent, ranger).

My thief is traited for might, he usually has got 12 stacks.

Jana.6831:

Iris Ng.9845:

Basically, when soloing…

1. Ele
2. Warrior
3. Engineer
4. Guardian
5. Mesmer
6. Thief
7. Necromancer
8. Ranger
   The first group: self might-stacking, the second group: reflect + damage modifiers, the third group… roll eyes.
   In that sense, a good PvE duo has a good (and sustainable) straight DPS and a good utility class (be it guardian, engineer, mesmer or thief and to a certain extent, ranger).

My thief is traited for might, he usually has got 12 stacks.

Interesting. May I ask for your build? Since the top 3 on this ranking do not have to compromise their maximum DPS for might stacking.

06620
The trait is the second last in the SA line. And since in a CnD BS spam situation I’m stealthed every other second another 2 stacks are coming in.

I use 0/6/5/3/0 on my Thief (for the extra dodge). Do you use “Resilience of Shadows” as your SA Grandmaster Trait?

Yes, but that doesn’t effect might
I’m solo roaming in wvw and that helps a lot.

Xanario.5718:

Hello, title says it all ? me and my brother wan’t to play, but dont know what class’s would be good together ?

Find something you like.

Just consider the roles.

Mobility:

• Stealth is REALLY nice, not required though.
• Swiftness uptime is a concern
• What else do they have? leaps? Teleports? Blinks? FGS is great for covering distance.

Damage:

• Might really really helps
• Vuln is always nice as well
• Fury is another thing
• Are you comfortable running the professions rotations and damage setups?

Defense:

• Projectile defense is very very impactful
• Evades? Blocks? Aegis? What else do you have and need?
• Healing scales poorly but with some synergy you can do a lot.

Just consider what things add. Warriors/Ele have decent Fury buffs for the group, Ele basically permanent. Ele>Engi>Guard/War for might stacking, warrior can phalanx but I wouldn’t even consider that an option in a duo, not worth the loss. Ele/Engi for Vuln… Ranger, Necro, and Warrior aren’t bad either but can’t match Ele/Engi.

For Mobility Warrior/Ele/Guard and well lots can provide swiftness. Then there’s the other stuff. Thief>Engi>Mesmer for Stealth.

Guard is the predominant defensive player, though Mesmer is solid as well and then a lot of others can fill in as needed.

If I were to make a duo I’d probably go Engi+ war/ele/guard ideally, depending on the situation, if it were just in general it’d be a tossup on war/ele probably lean towards Ele though it’s a tough profession to play. Maintaining full might & Fury as well as Vuln in a duo… nothing to complain about.

2 eles. Non-champs you can chain frost bow 5 for a 10s total stun which is long enough to kill anything. And vs champs you have enough reflects/invuln skills/dodges to never take damage, and if that doesnt work summon 2 earth eles and let them tank.

Plus you look cooler.

Jana.6831:

06620
The trait is the second last in the SA line. And since in a CnD BS spam situation I’m stealthed every other second another 2 stacks are coming in.

So you sacrifice 300 Power from traits, Vulnerability stacks, 5% direct damage with D/D, and 200 bonus Power when revealed to achieve this. You also lose on another 5% flanking damage by putting your 2 in Acrobatics instead of Trickery. Ergo, you’re losing damage (a lot of it) in order to get your Might.

Jana.6831:

06620
The trait is the second last in the SA line. And since in a CnD BS spam situation I’m stealthed every other second another 2 stacks are coming in.

Alright, for 12 stacks of Might, you are missing out a lot of damage modifiers and +300 Power. Let’s take a look:

• Sundering Strike: stack Vulnerability, a DPS increase
• Dagger Training: +5% Damage with Backstab, etc
• Exposed Weakness: +10% Damage if your target has a condition (good synergy with your Vuln uptime.)
• Revealed Training: +200 Power when revealed. For a BS build, this is a DPS increase.

So a thief cannot have both optimal DPS build and might. It explains why it is not highly ranked in the solo DPS scale. I need to mention that this scale is based on the max (solo) DPS build of each class.

Jerus.4350:

Xanario.5718:

Hello, title says it all ? me and my brother wan’t to play, but dont know what class’s would be good together ?

Find something you like.

Just consider the roles.

Mobility:

• Stealth is REALLY nice, not required though.
• Swiftness uptime is a concern
• What else do they have? leaps? Teleports? Blinks? FGS is great for covering distance.

Damage:

• Might really really helps
• Vuln is always nice as well
• Fury is another thing
• Are you comfortable running the professions rotations and damage setups?

Defense:

• Projectile defense is very very impactful
• Evades? Blocks? Aegis? What else do you have and need?
• Healing scales poorly but with some synergy you can do a lot.

Just consider what things add. Warriors/Ele have decent Fury buffs for the group, Ele basically permanent. Ele>Engi>Guard/War for might stacking, warrior can phalanx but I wouldn’t even consider that an option in a duo, not worth the loss. Ele/Engi for Vuln… Ranger, Necro, and Warrior aren’t bad either but can’t match Ele/Engi.

For Mobility Warrior/Ele/Guard and well lots can provide swiftness. Then there’s the other stuff. Thief>Engi>Mesmer for Stealth.

Guard is the predominant defensive player, though Mesmer is solid as well and then a lot of others can fill in as needed.

If I were to make a duo I’d probably go Engi+ war/ele/guard ideally, depending on the situation, if it were just in general it’d be a tossup on war/ele probably lean towards Ele though it’s a tough profession to play. Maintaining full might & Fury as well as Vuln in a duo… nothing to complain about.

Blind is such a wonderful under appreciated thing.

Iris Ng.9845:

Jana.6831:

06620
The trait is the second last in the SA line. And since in a CnD BS spam situation I’m stealthed every other second another 2 stacks are coming in.

Alright, for 12 stacks of Might, you are missing out a lot of damage modifiers and +300 Power. Let’s take a look:

• Sundering Strike: stack Vulnerability, a DPS increase
• Dagger Training: +5% Damage with Backstab, etc
• Exposed Weakness: +10% Damage if your target has a condition (good synergy with your Vuln uptime.)
• Revealed Training: +200 Power when revealed. For a BS build, this is a DPS increase.

So a thief cannot have both optimal DPS build and might. It explains why it is not highly ranked in the solo DPS scale. I need to mention that this scale is based on the max (solo) DPS build of each class.

Who did the calculations, you or someone else? I was refering to “Thief is no self might stacking class”. And I am pretty certain that thief has got the highest DPS in a relaxed boss fight. But curious to see something which explains the rankings =)

Edit: I’m getting 300 power with 10 stacks of might btw. Edit²: 350 actually.

Iris Ng.9845:

Jerus.4350:

Xanario.5718:

Hello, title says it all ? me and my brother wan’t to play, but dont know what class’s would be good together ?

Find something you like.

Just consider the roles.

Mobility:

• Stealth is REALLY nice, not required though.
• Swiftness uptime is a concern
• What else do they have? leaps? Teleports? Blinks? FGS is great for covering distance.

Damage:

• Might really really helps
• Vuln is always nice as well
• Fury is another thing
• Are you comfortable running the professions rotations and damage setups?

Defense:

• Projectile defense is very very impactful
• Evades? Blocks? Aegis? What else do you have and need?
• Healing scales poorly but with some synergy you can do a lot.

Just consider what things add. Warriors/Ele have decent Fury buffs for the group, Ele basically permanent. Ele>Engi>Guard/War for might stacking, warrior can phalanx but I wouldn’t even consider that an option in a duo, not worth the loss. Ele/Engi for Vuln… Ranger, Necro, and Warrior aren’t bad either but can’t match Ele/Engi.

For Mobility Warrior/Ele/Guard and well lots can provide swiftness. Then there’s the other stuff. Thief>Engi>Mesmer for Stealth.

Guard is the predominant defensive player, though Mesmer is solid as well and then a lot of others can fill in as needed.

If I were to make a duo I’d probably go Engi+ war/ele/guard ideally, depending on the situation, if it were just in general it’d be a tossup on war/ele probably lean towards Ele though it’s a tough profession to play. Maintaining full might & Fury as well as Vuln in a duo… nothing to complain about.

Blind is such a wonderful under appreciated thing.

Ohh yes it is! Thanks Iris, Thief/Engi/Guard/Ele for that, though I may be missing someone. Thief Pistol5 and Engi Smokebomb + Flash Grenade is my fav but Guard has great coverage with GS3, Focus4, sword2, and VoJ traited. Ele with sandstorm.

Korossive.7085:

Are you kidding? I went with a 5 mesmer multi dungeon run and between the 20 of us we breezed the places. Bosses were shocked. Mobs awed. We were running through, and a platoon of “us” went after us. It was a mess.

Not kidding at all – my point was that multiple mesmers are effective and a lot of fun too. It sounds like you had a similar experience.

My ele + anyone

Orion Templar.4589:

…
Not kidding at all – my point was that multiple mesmers are effective and a lot of fun too. It sounds like you had a similar experience.

I remember one of my first experiences in WvW a small group of my server came across an opposing small group that had at least 2 or 3 mesmers that looked alike. 2 were exact. When they got all their clones up it was impossible to tell the real mesmers in the scramble of a fight.

Edit: Playing a mesmer is just fun in and of itself. When I was just learning mesmer I came across another that seemed to have a similar style or at least we just meshed. We cleared out a cave full of ettins that was little challenging for such low level characters but it was very exhilarating. Playing with another mesmer could be very fun.

Jana.6831:

Who did the calculations, you or someone else? I was refering to “Thief is no self might stacking class”. And I am pretty certain that thief has got the highest DPS in a relaxed boss fight. But curious to see something which explains the rankings =)

Edit: I’m getting 300 power with 10 stacks of might btw. Edit²: 350 actually.

Alright, first thing, first. The statement was claimed by Nike of [DnT] and are generally accepted by the speedrun community based on [DnT] extensive work on theorycrafting.

The claim was here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2ls4zd/dps_solo_ranking/

Their theorycrafting work can be found here; most notably some number crunching during pre-September patch http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/13987449-dps-estimates-for-each-professions-in-30s-battles and http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/13086970-who-picks-up-fgs

I never claim directly that “Thief is no self might stacking class” because every class can self-stack might at some degrees. However, thief suffers a lot of DPS to trait for Shadow Arts (please refer to my previous explanation post). For 350 Power bonus of 12 stacks of might, you are missing 500 Powers from trait points and Revealed Training, 7 stacks of Vuln in average (equally to 7% DPS increase) and the total damage modifier would be: 1.05*1.07*1.10*1.05=1.30. That is 30% more damage missing for extra 350 Power!!!

Considering Lupicus Giganticus is one long drawn and most relax boss fight ever known to most of us, the record time of the highest solo kill without exploited reflect is:

• 3:36 for Staff Ele
• 4:58 for Zerker Warrior (and faster with a condi build)
• 5:3x for Zerker Thief. I couldn’t find the link, but the previous record is around 5:50 anyways

If you claim your Shadow Art build has the best DPS, you can post a video of your boss kill using the build. Then we’ll have someone post their version with the max DPS build to compare.

Iris Ng.9845:

snip

Ok, explanation: I replaced my original reply, so people who already read this might be surprised. I’m sorry for that but it would’ve been more confusing if I’d left the original reply and tried to explain what I’m explaining now in 5 other posts afterwards.

Here we go:
You did say that thieves weren’t able to stack might – that was what I was initially replying to.
I spoke of 12 might stacks my thief usually has got – when I notice it. I then reduced it to 10 stacks as these are realistic when spamming CnD/BS. However he can get 12 if using his skills additionally, so he can have spikes of 12 might on his own.
With 10 stacks of might he’s got 350 more power, with 12 450. If I’d put the 2 from the acrobatics line into DA, I’d be at 550 power. I would miss out on dagger training though.
Conclusion: A DD thief traited in DA is marginally stronger than one traited in SA.
(The one website you linked actually said that thief has got the highest DPS).

What you based your “solo-ranks” on was how fast people have killed Lupi with different classes. That has got little value as it’s just a subjective ranking and maybe tomorrow a thief will come and beat them all (unlikely but possible).

And also: thieves who solo dungeons usually use S/P – more utility, less damage. So yes, if a thief can’t BS spam a boss, then his damage will be lower.

How about you make a video about a thief soloing a dungeon?