Guild Wars 2

Beware of guilds that ask for 10g deposits!

They can recruit you, give you a trial run, and then decide to kick you and retain the 10g. It’s not illegal and perfectly fine, but there are guilds that run these types of schemes for gold. Please be cautious!

Why would anyone agree to that?

What are these guilds offering that makes it seem worth 10g to join when there’s dozens of guilds advertising on any given day that will recruit for free?

There are raid guilds out there that expect people to give them a 10g deposit for a trial run. People who are looking for a good raid guild can invite people under the presumption that they are trialing, then after a few days or so, decide they are not viable for their guild and kick them without returning their deposit. Considering how many people PuG raids, some may fall for this elaborate scheme.

Asking people to pay 10g upfront just screams “scam” to me anyway.

I hate to say it but I think the types of people that would pay 10 gold to join any guild for any reason would be the type that would not frequent any forums. Just saying. :P

Beware of guilds that ask, “ask not what the guild can do for you — ask rather, what you can do for this guild.”

Do guilds really do this? I’ve been missing out on an opportunity. I could be rich! Rich!

No guild should ever charge an admission price. It’s ridiculous.

The obvious solution is to make them pay you 10 gold for joining them.

I have the perfect solution to this. Just send me 5 gold and I’ll email you my new book entitled “Don’t be gullible”.

That sounds like such a scam. Thank goodness I donated gold to a Charr Prince in need of funding for his country of Astralaria instead.

Jubilant.7280:

There are raid guilds out there that expect people to give them a 10g deposit for a trial run. People who are looking for a good raid guild can invite people under the presumption that they are trialing, then after a few days or so, decide they are not viable for their guild and kick them without returning their deposit. Considering how many people PuG raids, some may fall for this elaborate scheme.

Thats not technically a scheme, its players willing to pay to be members of that guild… its clearly an entrance fee just to be on a trial period. You fail the tests you wont get your money back. If people cant see that they are blind.

Then again going by the success of programs like kickstarter, I really cant expect more.

It is a entry fee like what above me said. It is not new, nothing to be skeptical about. Naturally, if there is a trial period, of course you will be kicked if you fail the trial. It is only a scam if you get kicked without undergoing a trial. I must admit that having both entry fee and a trial period are kinda demanding but if they are doing that to limit the number of people joining for the sake of joining, I guess is understandable.

Dawdler.8521:

Thats not technically a scheme, its players willing to pay to be members of that guild… its clearly an entrance fee just to be on a trial period. You fail the tests you wont get your money back. If people cant see that they are blind.

Also, what kind of guild gets rich by taking only 10 gold from people? You need a lot of new starters in your guild to make decent profit with that scam. And you need to spend time with them for the trial period. Unless you just take the gold and immediately kick them, I don’t see how that works better than just begging for stuff in Lion’s Arch.

And if you did that to me, I would spend my crafting time in Lion’s Arch telling the map which guild to avoid and why every 5 minutes.

Hi, I’m an Orrian prince.
I have over 500.000g in legendarys on my bank, but I don’t have the money for the market fee. If you could just front me 1000g I’ll pay you 50.000g after I sold them.

Just send it to me via in game mail and I’ll get you your money ASAP !

“Entry fee”? “Trial period”? Yeah no guild is that important, though I suppose maybe some guilds are that full of themselves.

It’s good of them to let me know who I should avoid or rip the kitten out of in game though.

As for it not being a scheme/scam, it certainly fits my definition of one. Even if you were to have fees and trial periods, not giving their deposit back if it turns out they won’t be a good fit for the guild is just so slimy.

As a guy that joined one of these guilds years ago I can say it is important to do your research on that guild before making that decision. The guild I joined is a massive one that needs applying on their web sight and a 5g payment. I had friends already in it. I was skeptical sure but after meeting the people in the guild and seeing the AAA quality web sight they seemed okay. The guild likes to keep large amounts of gold stocked for massive lotteries. The more people joining the guild and members buying 5g lottery tickets the bigger the prizes. Its all optional to buy tickets. They are also a really active guild in all game types.

I’m not saying trust everyone but instead use your own discretion. They aren’t all bad. If 5-10g is breaking the bank just don’t do it. That can be a lot for some people but nothing for others.

Rashagar.8349:

“Entry fee”? “Trial period”? Yeah no guild is that important, though I suppose maybe some guilds are that full of themselves.

It’s good of them to let me know who I should avoid or rip the kitten out of in game though.

As for it not being a scheme/scam, it certainly fits my definition of one. Even if you were to have fees and trial periods, not giving their deposit back if it turns out they won’t be a good fit for the guild is just so slimy.

Yep, after reading a “10g deposit” it’s immediately what I interpreted. And no guilds I’ve been in have requested such. A trial period is understandable sure, but a fee is too demanding but not returning it then makes them too greedy. Sucks for peeps who’s been jipped and couldn’t comprehend what they doing.

Guilds add costs to joining to deter less experienced players. Usually they don’t “need” the gold. What guild gets by on 10 gold per applicant?

Many players have much more gold than this. Many will also only pay this fee if they know the guild and want to join. Scam implies that they aren’t being honest about giving you a trial. A trial can, however, be failed. Giving up your application fee isn’t unexpected if the trial doesn’t work out.

The more likely scam is a player pretending to represent a guild and having you mail them gold to “apply.”

Rashagar.8349:

“Entry fee”? “Trial period”? Yeah no guild is that important, though I suppose maybe some guilds are that full of themselves.

It’s good of them to let me know who I should avoid or rip the kitten out of in game though.

As for it not being a scheme/scam, it certainly fits my definition of one. Even if you were to have fees and trial periods, not giving their deposit back if it turns out they won’t be a good fit for the guild is just so slimy.

So if you paid the exam fee and you fail your exam, you want your exam fee back? Really?

I wasn’t given a trial run for the raid bosses. I’ve been shopping around for an elitist EU guild and I met all of their pre-requisites for this particular guild. They asked for a 10g deposit to join and most people that want to join a raid guild for fast clears would usually be tempted to send the money in. I have their public google doc’s link but I don’t think you are allowed to post it without breaking the rules.

I’m just warning people specifically those that are shopping for an elitist raiding guild and happen to stumble upon one of these requirements for a 10g deposit.

As for the trial period, I heard most people got kicked after a week or so that were invited by this particular guild without getting their deposit back. So, I’m just here to warn you about elaborate schemes that invite a bunch of people into the guild, asking for a 10g deposit, and after a week, start kicking them under the presumption that they failed the trial. (Kicking them immediately screams “Scam”)

SkyShroud.2865:

Rashagar.8349:

“Entry fee”? “Trial period”? Yeah no guild is that important, though I suppose maybe some guilds are that full of themselves.

It’s good of them to let me know who I should avoid or rip the kitten out of in game though.

As for it not being a scheme/scam, it certainly fits my definition of one. Even if you were to have fees and trial periods, not giving their deposit back if it turns out they won’t be a good fit for the guild is just so slimy.

So if you paid the exam fee and you fail your exam, you want your exam fee back? Really?

That’s a laughable false equivalency and if a guild in question tried making it it would only serve to emphasise the “full of themselves” aspect.

Rashagar.8349:

SkyShroud.2865:

Rashagar.8349:

“Entry fee”? “Trial period”? Yeah no guild is that important, though I suppose maybe some guilds are that full of themselves.

It’s good of them to let me know who I should avoid or rip the kitten out of in game though.

As for it not being a scheme/scam, it certainly fits my definition of one. Even if you were to have fees and trial periods, not giving their deposit back if it turns out they won’t be a good fit for the guild is just so slimy.

So if you paid the exam fee and you fail your exam, you want your exam fee back? Really?

That’s a laughable false equivalency and if a guild in question tried making it it would only serve to emphasise the “full of themselves” aspect.

Doesn’t that make you super full of yourself since you dare to criticize guilds which obviously made up of many people who underwent that procedures.

Regardless, OP just mentioned that the guild he/she mentioned does not actually has a trial.

For the past few days in WVW I saw a Guild offer duels in their guild hall arena for a 10 gold “bet” and if you won best out of 3 you would get 50 gold. I blocked him.

SkyShroud.2865:

Rashagar.8349:

SkyShroud.2865:

Rashagar.8349:

“Entry fee”? “Trial period”? Yeah no guild is that important, though I suppose maybe some guilds are that full of themselves.

It’s good of them to let me know who I should avoid or rip the kitten out of in game though.

As for it not being a scheme/scam, it certainly fits my definition of one. Even if you were to have fees and trial periods, not giving their deposit back if it turns out they won’t be a good fit for the guild is just so slimy.

So if you paid the exam fee and you fail your exam, you want your exam fee back? Really?

That’s a laughable false equivalency and if a guild in question tried making it it would only serve to emphasise the “full of themselves” aspect.

Doesn’t that make you super full of yourself since you dare to criticize guilds which obviously made up of many people who underwent that procedures.

No? Not sure where you’re getting that from tbh. Do I need to explain why it’s a false equivalency?

Would it be less offensive to people if the entrance fee amount were 10 copper instead of gold?

Rashagar.8349:

Do I need to explain why it’s a false equivalency?

Sure. I don’t mind.

Asking for 10g right away, before any “trial” run, seems very scam-like to me. Now, if a guild were to ask for a 10g fee AFTER a trial period (during which the person wanting to join would be evaluated based on the guild’s standards), I’d be on board, assuming that the guild let the potential member know about this future charge when they signed up. Charging your fee once the member is fully accepted seems a lot more fair than charging them for a trial run. But, regardless of what I think, the guild leaders set the rules for their guild. The people who don’t care for that practice or are worried they might not get accepted should just avoid it.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Rashagar.8349:

Do I need to explain why it’s a false equivalency?

Sure. I don’t mind.

Ok cool. Simply send me a mere 10g explanation fee =P

SkyShroud.2865:

So if you paid the exam fee and you fail your exam, you want your exam fee back? Really?

The problem is that you can see why your exam failed.
In a scam guild, they pull out any random reason (if at all) out of their butt to keep your money.

Also, as many stated, a “deposit” is a deposit, not an entry free. And again, those guilds just can turn it into whatever reason why it turned from a deposit (you get it back when nothing justifies to keep it) into a fee.

In the end, I would never ever do that. AAA websites and all that fancy stuff is done by those nerds with a joy and passion, not by acting like a frigging government installation – the latter has actual laws behind, not just some random kid inflating his ego.

Excelsior.

Zedek.8932:

SkyShroud.2865:

So if you paid the exam fee and you fail your exam, you want your exam fee back? Really?

The problem is that you can see why your exam failed.
In a scam guild, they pull out any random reason (if at all) out of their butt to keep your money.

Also, as many stated, a “deposit” is a deposit, not an entry free. And again, those guilds just can turn it into whatever reason why it turned from a deposit (you get it back when nothing justifies to keep it) into a fee.

In the end, I would never ever do that. AAA websites and all that fancy stuff is done by those nerds with a joy and passion, not by acting like a frigging government installation – the latter has actual laws behind, not just some random kid inflating his ego.

Excelsior.

Exams are too made by establishments, it can too be a scam scheme, have you not watch news? It is up to the discretion of individuals to determine it as scam or not scam but to outright generalize all guilds that take entry fee as a scam is just nothing but arrogance or ignorance.

Also laws are just words, powerless words. It is the human that enforce the laws, do not be mistaken.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Rashagar.8349:

Do I need to explain why it’s a false equivalency?

Sure. I don’t mind.

He can’t, I couldn’t bother to argue with him either, a waste of time.

I think if someone said to me I had to pay them any amount of currency to join their guild,
I’d laugh hysterically then tell them how much I charge to let them invite me.
“oh you want 10 gold for me to join your guild? well, It’ll cost you 20 gold to invite me< you can have 10 gold back if I decide to leave the guild after your trial period”.

SkyShroud.2865:

Rashagar.8349:

SkyShroud.2865:

Rashagar.8349:

“Entry fee”? “Trial period”? Yeah no guild is that important, though I suppose maybe some guilds are that full of themselves.

It’s good of them to let me know who I should avoid or rip the kitten out of in game though.

As for it not being a scheme/scam, it certainly fits my definition of one. Even if you were to have fees and trial periods, not giving their deposit back if it turns out they won’t be a good fit for the guild is just so slimy.

So if you paid the exam fee and you fail your exam, you want your exam fee back? Really?

That’s a laughable false equivalency and if a guild in question tried making it it would only serve to emphasise the “full of themselves” aspect.

Doesn’t that make you super full of yourself since you dare to criticize guilds which obviously made up of many people who underwent that procedures.

Regardless, OP just mentioned that the guild he/she mentioned does not actually has a trial.

The chances of the guild members that underwent that procedure is minimal at best. To me, it sounds like you’re defending these types of guilds because either you seem to have a very altered perspective on these types of guilds or you’re a part of one of these guilds that participates in these types of schemes.

SkyShroud.2865:

Zedek.8932:

SkyShroud.2865:

So if you paid the exam fee and you fail your exam, you want your exam fee back? Really?

The problem is that you can see why your exam failed.
In a scam guild, they pull out any random reason (if at all) out of their butt to keep your money.

Also, as many stated, a “deposit” is a deposit, not an entry free. And again, those guilds just can turn it into whatever reason why it turned from a deposit (you get it back when nothing justifies to keep it) into a fee.

In the end, I would never ever do that. AAA websites and all that fancy stuff is done by those nerds with a joy and passion, not by acting like a frigging government installation – the latter has actual laws behind, not just some random kid inflating his ego.

Excelsior.

Exams are too made by establishments, it can too be a scam scheme, have you not watch news? It is up to the discretion of individuals to determine it as scam or not scam but to outright generalize all guilds that take entry fee as a scam is just nothing but arrogance or ignorance.

Also laws are just words, powerless words. It is the human that enforce the laws, do not be mistaken.

To me, it sounds like you’re applying real life regulations to a game. Most of the time they do not correlate in any possible way (as long as you do not infringe or forcibly damage another person, you are literally free to do anything you want). So I warn people about these types of guilds because they are in the minority. And most of the time, if they are in the minority, it means what they are doing are either wrong or they are ineffective.

Corny quotes makes for bad corn.

Jubilant.7280:

SkyShroud.2865:

Rashagar.8349:

SkyShroud.2865:

Rashagar.8349:

“Entry fee”? “Trial period”? Yeah no guild is that important, though I suppose maybe some guilds are that full of themselves.

It’s good of them to let me know who I should avoid or rip the kitten out of in game though.

As for it not being a scheme/scam, it certainly fits my definition of one. Even if you were to have fees and trial periods, not giving their deposit back if it turns out they won’t be a good fit for the guild is just so slimy.

So if you paid the exam fee and you fail your exam, you want your exam fee back? Really?

That’s a laughable false equivalency and if a guild in question tried making it it would only serve to emphasise the “full of themselves” aspect.

Doesn’t that make you super full of yourself since you dare to criticize guilds which obviously made up of many people who underwent that procedures.

Regardless, OP just mentioned that the guild he/she mentioned does not actually has a trial.

The chances of the guild members that underwent that procedure is minimal at best. To me, it sounds like you’re defending these types of guilds because either you seem to have a very altered perspective on these types of guilds or you’re a part of one of these guilds that participates in these types of schemes.

I am not a narrowed minded person living a narrowed minded world where there is only one “true” way of doing things. Just because one don’t agree of entry fee doesn’t means it is morally wrong. I don’t see any of those are morally/ethically wrong as long they able to deliver what they need to deliver.

For your case, since the mentioned guild does not actually has a trial, it is correct in a moral sense to call it is a scam. However, to those who just jumping to conclusions without any actual proof and purely base on personal beliefs and personal sense of justice, I call that narrow mindedness, arrogance and ignorance.

No guild should charge people an entry fee to join. That’s wrong. Conversely no one should pay to join a guild. That’s stupid.

Don’t be stupid. There are morally bankrupt people in the world, and they have no qualms with exploiting you.

The way I see it, my time is wayyyy too important.

I charge a 100 gold consulting fee for guilds to recruit me. Thus, 100-10 = 90g

Any guild that wants you to pay them to join is a kittenty guild, scam or no. You should stay far away from them. The whole point of being in a guild is to work with people as a team, make friends, that sort of thing. Kinda hard to do those things if it’s built on the premise of paying for entry. You will forever be kissing kitten wondering if you’ve truly earned your way in yet.

Story time: I used to help run a guild in another game. There was some stuff I think we did poorly, looking back, but one way in which we were very firm and it really paid off, was how we acted about being a true guild, not a series of business relationships. Our mindset, which we passed down to our members, was that if you’re a member of the guild, we help you when you need help and you do the same for your fellow guildies.

Often in raids, we would have people voluntarily helping out with consumable stuff that we needed because they wanted to help.

Some people have a hard time wrapping their head around this mindset. But as far as I’m concerned, it’s the only effective way to run a guild if you want long-term members. It has to be built on the premise of supporting each other, not something transactional. If it’s transactional, people will ditch the moment your guild hits any hard spots. And every guild hits hard spots. You need people to want to stick around when those hard spots happen because they feel like they’re a part of a family.

On the other hand, if you want a guild of disposable DPS machines, then by all means, treat people like the DPS machines that they are.

But those who are looking for a guild most likely don’t want to be treated that way, so unless you want to be treated that way, be wary about trying to join up with guilds that care more about numbers than working with a human being.

The funny thing about elite guilds is they often fall apart. I don’t have anything against trying to be elite – heck, I’m pretty much a closet elitist player – but it is kind of interesting to me how elite guilds often seem to have problems keeping their players together where other guilds last (I’ve observed some of this firsthand.. the ego friction can be a big problem). It’s not impossible to have an elite guild and build something lasting, but you have to do more than trials.

Perhaps it’s because there are the elite, and then there are the people that think they are elite. Guess which one is more common.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SmugSnake A good description of it, as well as what happened this thread.

SkyShroud.2865:

limit the number of people joining for the sake of joining, I guess is understandable.

What the kitten other reason would you join a guild for? Also, you don’t need to charge a fee to limit recruitment. You just say no if you’re too full up for what you want.

Taking peoples’ money because they want to join is just taking advantage of them, plain and simple, and I’ve known people in elite guilds who I could imagine doing that for kicks, so I’m not exactly jumping to give the benefit of the doubt on this one.

ArchonWing.9480:

Perhaps it’s because there are the elite, and then there are the people that think they are elite. Guess which one is more common.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SmugSnake A good description of it, as well as what happened this thread.

Sounds about right.

Labjax.2465:

SkyShroud.2865:

limit the number of people joining for the sake of joining, I guess is understandable.

What the kitten other reason would you join a guild for? Also, you don’t need to charge a fee to limit recruitment. You just say no if you’re too full up for what you want.

Taking peoples’ money because they want to join is just taking advantage of them, plain and simple, and I’ve known people in elite guilds who I could imagine doing that for kicks, so I’m not exactly jumping to give the benefit of the doubt on this one.

“Join for the sake of joining” itself is a very particular reason.

On another post, you speak about your experience of running a guild and how it should be run. I run a rather large guild here if you ever heard of it. I have been gaming close to two decades, played many mmorpg and part of many guilds. I also have commanded close to 200 players in wars of some pvp mmorpgs which obviously you wouldn’t find many that actually has that experience. Even then, who am I to behave condescending on how one should run their guilds?

Obviously, since I have been playing so long, I have seen so many ways of running a guild or clan but at the end of the day, it isn’t about how the they do things, it is about delivering what they say they will deliver. If one speak about moral or ethics or even principle, then one should make sure it applies to all be it virtue or reality, otherwise one is just using it as a convenient reason to smash others.

I joked that to join our guild you must pay the guild leader 100 gold… Of course it was a joke and we never took any new member’s gold. But I wasn’t aware people where ACTUALLY doing this kitten… If so that is pretty bad…

Well rather than continue to be salty and try to publicly shame, why don’t OP go and watch a few DPS videos and practice rotations according to how the top players from QT or SC.

It’s obvious you’re never going to get invited to that guild, attacking the leader and the guild publicly because of rejection isn’t going to get you anywhere.

Just take it as a bit of a wake up call and go improve yourself. There’s other raid guilds out there. As far as I’m concerned, if you build up enough of a reputation as a good player, people come out looking for you instead.

Other than the thread title itself, this thread has very little information. :p

I would say, always beware with deposits and money transfers from player to player. Regardless of what and when and how.

Personally I think it’s never worth the trouble to join a guild that takes itself so serious as with trials deposits and all that other special snowflake standards that really don’t amount to anything, in my opinion.

[This thread has gone off course, it is now closed. Thank you!]