Guild Wars 2

GW2 has been officially released in China merely 2 weeks ago and it has already hit #5 on their top 10 list, toppling some of the giants along the way.

Now I know some trolls and sourpusses will come along and try to negate this with various rhetoric “it’s a new game”, it’s the honeymoon" etc. etc. etc.

But no matter what you say, the fact that Anet went to China with a very risky business model never before seen over there, makes it a great achievement indeed.

So once again, congratulation Anet and all the best in your future endeavors.

Cheers!

Source: http://www.gamesinasia.com/the-top-10-hottest-pc-games-in-china-may-2014/

Well, just to indicate something. ESO was on 2nd in the UK charts last time I checked and we can predict the fate of that game already…

I don’t trust first month ratings. The honeymoon period is on full effect and the hype train is on its max passenger limit. Wait for 6 months, if GW2 is still there, we might have a winner.

I think GW2 will head up into the top 3 and possibly even hit no. 1 spot, especially if for Season 2 they do regular 2 weekly updates from July 1st. Got a feeling the Chinese will love that…

How exactly do they rank the games?

grats, hope GW2 continue to do good in China, so dev will care enough to put out better update.

Meglobob.8620:

I think GW2 will head up into the top 3 and possibly even hit no. 1 spot, especially if for Season 2 they do regular 2 weekly updates from July 1st. Got a feeling the Chinese will love that…

The Chinese can stand the grind better than us, but they also care more about the loot than us. GW2 a loot doesn’t go well together.

Everything I’m reading says they are completely obsessed with the game. ArenaNet is going to have a very good year

Karizee.8076:

Everything I’m reading says they are completely obsessed with the game. ArenaNet is going to have a very good year

I don’t know. As a culture, we Chinese are obsessed with everything, because our culture is all about self-improvement and being better than others (even if its just convincing yourself that you are…). So you got this period of obsession where everyone is trying to be the bestest ever in the bestest game ever.

But after that, what then?

Xae Isareth.1364:

Meglobob.8620:

I think GW2 will head up into the top 3 and possibly even hit no. 1 spot, especially if for Season 2 they do regular 2 weekly updates from July 1st. Got a feeling the Chinese will love that…

The Chinese can stand the grind better than us, but they also care more about the loot than us. GW2 a loot doesn’t go well together.

Well from all the QQ i have seen on these forums about loot, i’d say we like loot as much as the next man lol.

Personally, in my experience, GW2 loot is the best around. I don’t know of any games that give guaranteed loot chests for completing general stuff on daily basis. I’ve done tier 3 raids in some games over and over which are really long and hard and get zip at the end. But, I’m not really the type that plays purely for loot, ofc it’s nice to get it, but its not my primary reason for playing, so perhaps my view of this is somewhat skewed.

However, i hope this thread doesn’t turn into a debate about loot, we got enough of those all over forums already.

Tiger Ashante.1792:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Meglobob.8620:

I think GW2 will head up into the top 3 and possibly even hit no. 1 spot, especially if for Season 2 they do regular 2 weekly updates from July 1st. Got a feeling the Chinese will love that…

The Chinese can stand the grind better than us, but they also care more about the loot than us. GW2 a loot doesn’t go well together.

Well from all the QQ i have seen on these forums about loot, i’d say we like loot as much as the next man lol.

Personally, in my experience, GW2 loot is the best around. I don’t know of any games that give guaranteed loot chests for completing general stuff on daily basis. I’ve done tier 3 raids in some games over and over which are really long and hard and get zip at the end. But, I’m not really the type that plays purely for loot, ofc it’s nice to get it, but its not my primary reason for playing, so perhaps my view of this is somewhat skewed.

However, i hope this thread doesn’t turn into a debate about loot, we got enough of those all over forums already.

The loot’s fine until you get to the endgame.

The problem is that there’s no medium-termed goals and everything after the initial round of loot feels terribly unrewarding.

Take the Queen’s Gauntlet for example. The initial completion, its amazing. You move up through the ranks, you hear the announcer announce your entry differently, you get achievements and even a mini+title after you down Lladri. It felt good.

But that’s what, 3 hours at most? After that, there’s basically no in between rewards. Chances have a miniscue chance to drop LS rares or the coveted Lyssa’s Chaos recipe, but thats the very long term rewards that you jump over the moon when you do get it, there;s nothing to keep you going until then.

Take TSW’s raid for example. There’s the Subway Tokens which is the raid-exclusive BiS tank/DPS talisman which everyone wants and rarely drops: the long term goal. But until then, every complete of the raid gets you a guaranteed number of tokens to buy non-raid BiS stuff with (the raid BiS gear apart from the tokens are only situationally better) and you’ll probably get some less coveted raid drops if you run in a guild group as well: the medium term goal.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Tiger Ashante.1792:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Meglobob.8620:

I think GW2 will head up into the top 3 and possibly even hit no. 1 spot, especially if for Season 2 they do regular 2 weekly updates from July 1st. Got a feeling the Chinese will love that…

The Chinese can stand the grind better than us, but they also care more about the loot than us. GW2 a loot doesn’t go well together.

Well from all the QQ i have seen on these forums about loot, i’d say we like loot as much as the next man lol.

Personally, in my experience, GW2 loot is the best around. I don’t know of any games that give guaranteed loot chests for completing general stuff on daily basis. I’ve done tier 3 raids in some games over and over which are really long and hard and get zip at the end. But, I’m not really the type that plays purely for loot, ofc it’s nice to get it, but its not my primary reason for playing, so perhaps my view of this is somewhat skewed.

However, i hope this thread doesn’t turn into a debate about loot, we got enough of those all over forums already.

The loot’s fine until you get to the endgame.

The problem is that there’s no medium-termed goals and everything after the initial round of loot feels terribly unrewarding.

Take the Queen’s Gauntlet for example. The initial completion, its amazing. You move up through the ranks, you hear the announcer announce your entry differently, you get achievements and even a mini+title after you down Lladri. It felt good.

But that’s what, 3 hours at most? After that, there’s basically no in between rewards. Chances have a miniscue chance to drop LS rares or the coveted Lyssa’s Chaos recipe, but thats the very long term rewards that you jump over the moon when you do get it, there;s nothing to keep you going until then.

Take TSW’s raid for example. There’s the Subway Tokens which is the raid-exclusive BiS tank/DPS talisman which everyone wants and rarely drops: the long term goal. But until then, every complete of the raid gets you a guaranteed number of tokens to buy non-raid BiS stuff with (the raid BiS gear apart from the tokens are only situationally better) and you’ll probably get some less coveted raid drops if you run in a guild group as well: the medium term goal.

That kinda sounds like gw2 dungeon token system to me. and i also think its awesome that you can craft the best gear in gw2 if you so choose and not purely rely on a /roll system in dungeon where only 1/12 ppl may get that coveted reward that everyone is after.

and then 1 month later China realize there is no end game in gw2…

Flash.6912:

and then 1 month later China realize there is no end game in gw2…

Oh dear, that again. I feel sorry for you people, really i do. gw2 has barely began to expand its horizons and you keep harping about some imaginary end game. omg what’s happened to gamers these days, so brainwashed by these insidious games they cannot see the forest for the trees.

Xae Isareth.1364:

The Chinese can stand the grind better than us, but they also care more about the loot than us. GW2 a loot doesn’t go well together.

Rather tired at the racist comments.

Flash.6912:

and then 1 month later China realize there is no end game in gw2…

I’ve played since launch, for about 1800 hours and I have only experienced perhaps 1/3 of all the content in this game. Over 1500 of those hours were spent at max level.

That’s a whole lot of “no endgame” if you ask me.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Karizee.8076:

Everything I’m reading says they are completely obsessed with the game. ArenaNet is going to have a very good year

I don’t know. As a culture, we Chinese are obsessed with everything, because our culture is all about self-improvement and being better than others (even if its just convincing yourself that you are…). So you got this period of obsession where everyone is trying to be the bestest ever in the bestest game ever.

But after that, what then?

Then comes the big fall to western like society ;P

Tiger Ashante.1792:

Flash.6912:

and then 1 month later China realize there is no end game in gw2…

Oh dear, that again. I feel sorry for you people, really i do. gw2 has barely began to expand its horizons and you keep harping about some imaginary end game. omg what’s happened to gamers these days, so brainwashed by these insidious games they cannot see the forest for the trees.

are you 1 of those casuals who plays 1 or 2 hours a day who doesn’t see the big pic? GW2 has lost a lot of players since LS1 out and that is a fact. Most of the big guilds since pre released have like 10 members at best now. Every MMOs need some kind of game to have its keep the players strive for. GW2 isn’t a bad game but it need something for players to keep playing.

Flash.6912:

Tiger Ashante.1792:

Flash.6912:

and then 1 month later China realize there is no end game in gw2…

Oh dear, that again. I feel sorry for you people, really i do. gw2 has barely began to expand its horizons and you keep harping about some imaginary end game. omg what’s happened to gamers these days, so brainwashed by these insidious games they cannot see the forest for the trees.

are you 1 of those casuals who plays 1 or 2 hours a day who doesn’t see the big pic? GW2 has lost a lot of players since LS1 out and that is a fact. Most of the big guilds since pre released have like 10 members at best now. Every MMOs need some kind of game to have its keep the players strive for. GW2 isn’t a bad game but it need something for players to keep playing.

Like what? raids? gear treadmill? For a start if gw2 is losing players, that really doesn’t concern you as player, that’s the company’s problem. You as a player only have to worry about having fun in the game. That doesn’t mean i don’t care about the game, i support it whenever i can and that’s what we all should do if we want to get that new content, not just complain about it.

But no matter what’s laid out before you, the company can’t make u have fun. You have to find your own fun. They can give you the tools, the environments and places to go, but ultimately it’s up to you to enjoy the world they’ve created for you.

If you only ever played games that held you hand, told you what to do every step of the way and don’t u dare sway form that arrow pointing u ahead you may not find gw2 satisfying, because in gw2, you have to make your own goals. The tools are there, the content is there, you just got to decided what you want to do form the plethora of choices on the table.

And fyi, I’ve been playing gw2 since BWE1 and every day since head start. My daily play varies, but suffice to say i’ve played well over 5k hours and i have hardly touched the dungeons, have played a bit of WvW, but i’ve not set foot in PvP as yet. I have x9 lvl 80 all with 100% map completions, i got all my crafts to 500 and i have crafted a legendary weapon, The Birfrost. Ive never farmed and i’ve earned my legendary weapon, simply through playing the game. Sure it took me a long time but that was ok by me, it was a long term plan of mine anyway. I’ve not gambled on Mystic Forge to get it either. Granted it would have been more epic if the precursor dropped for me but i’m not that lucky so i bought mine and despite all of that i’m not exactly poor.

Granted, i too am dying for some new maps etc and they will come, but seriously, i think gw2 has more replayable content than many other games out there of the same age and some even older ones.

How can i think that? Well for a start in a typical MMO, you go through maps in order of lvls and as u lvl up all the areas behind you become obsolete, u never go there, even if you missed some places. So you rush to so called end game and what’s waiting for you there? 1 or 2 dungeons and gear grind where u get to run those dungeons over and over and over ad nauseum.

Meanwhile in gw2, I log in i do what i want, i go where i please, i do events in whatever gorgeous map i want and complete my dailies/monthlies along the way, do a bit of crafting, a bit of gathering, a bit of chest hunting, do a few world bosses sometimes i do some jumping puzzles and before i know it, several hours have gone by. Well that to me is much more fun than being stuck in some dark, boring dungeon day in and day out, rarely seeing daylight, but that’s just me.

Azhure.1857:

Xae Isareth.1364:

The Chinese can stand the grind better than us, but they also care more about the loot than us. GW2 a loot doesn’t go well together.

Rather tired at the racist comments.

How is that racist. It’s like saying westerners can’t stand grinding as much. Is that racist towards westerners?

love the game, and wish Anet all the best (for the persons responsible and selfishly as it effects me the player as well). Hopefully this is a success in china (beyond opening).

Tiger Ashante.1792:

GW2 has been officially released in China merely 2 weeks ago and it has already hit #5 on their top 10 list, toppling some of the giants along the way.

Now I know some trolls and sourpusses will come along and try to negate this with various rhetoric “it’s a new game”, it’s the honeymoon" etc. etc. etc.

But no matter what you say, the fact that Anet went to China with a very risky business model never before seen over there, makes it a great achievement indeed.

So once again, congratulation Anet and all the best in your future endeavors.

Cheers!

Source: http://www.gamesinasia.com/the-top-10-hottest-pc-games-in-china-may-2014/

That’s awesome! Now we will get better development here as a result! GG devs and thank you China!

Swagger.1459:

Tiger Ashante.1792:

GW2 has been officially released in China merely 2 weeks ago and it has already hit #5 on their top 10 list, toppling some of the giants along the way.

Now I know some trolls and sourpusses will come along and try to negate this with various rhetoric “it’s a new game”, it’s the honeymoon" etc. etc. etc.

But no matter what you say, the fact that Anet went to China with a very risky business model never before seen over there, makes it a great achievement indeed.

So once again, congratulation Anet and all the best in your future endeavors.

Cheers!

Source: http://www.gamesinasia.com/the-top-10-hottest-pc-games-in-china-may-2014/

That’s awesome! Now we will get better development here as a result! GG devs and thank you China!

Yep, if it continues to be well received (and frankly i don’t see why it shouldn’t be) it can only mean a good thing for all of us and for the game as a whole.

Tiger Ashante.1792:

Flash.6912:

and then 1 month later China realize there is no end game in gw2…

Oh dear, that again. I feel sorry for you people, really i do. gw2 has barely began to expand its horizons and you keep harping about some imaginary end game. omg what’s happened to gamers these days, so brainwashed by these insidious games they cannot see the forest for the trees.

Barely began to expand its horizons? It has been almost two years now and PVP is crap, PVE is the same thing it was when it launched and WvW is still ZvZ.

Iplaytokill.1674:

Tiger Ashante.1792:

Flash.6912:

and then 1 month later China realize there is no end game in gw2…

Oh dear, that again. I feel sorry for you people, really i do. gw2 has barely began to expand its horizons and you keep harping about some imaginary end game. omg what’s happened to gamers these days, so brainwashed by these insidious games they cannot see the forest for the trees.

Barely began to expand its horizons? It has been almost two years now and PVP is crap, PVE is the same thing it was when it launched and WvW is still ZvZ.

WvW is not Z v Z -if you ACTAULLY played season 2, you would know. The end of season2 (Tier 1 servers) have shown that. The Guilds that worked and planned together win big, the servers that mindlessly zerg do not.

They have added things, they have been tweaking things and, do you know how long it takes to translate a game from English to Chinese, properly? Kudos to An.Net for being a small company but pushing on.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Iplaytokill.1674:

Tiger Ashante.1792:

Flash.6912:

and then 1 month later China realize there is no end game in gw2…

Oh dear, that again. I feel sorry for you people, really i do. gw2 has barely began to expand its horizons and you keep harping about some imaginary end game. omg what’s happened to gamers these days, so brainwashed by these insidious games they cannot see the forest for the trees.

Barely began to expand its horizons? It has been almost two years now and PVP is crap, PVE is the same thing it was when it launched and WvW is still ZvZ.

WvW is not Z v Z -if you ACTAULLY played season 2, you would know. The end of season2 (Tier 1 servers) have shown that. The Guilds that worked and planned together win big, the servers that mindlessly zerg do not.

They have added things, they have been tweaking things and, do you know how long it takes to translate a game from English to Chinese, properly? Kudos to An.Net for being a small company but pushing on.

Anet is anything but small o.o

I mean, they aren’t Nintendo or Blizzard size, but having over 300 developers means you really aren’t a small company anymore.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Iplaytokill.1674:

Tiger Ashante.1792:

Flash.6912:

and then 1 month later China realize there is no end game in gw2…

Oh dear, that again. I feel sorry for you people, really i do. gw2 has barely began to expand its horizons and you keep harping about some imaginary end game. omg what’s happened to gamers these days, so brainwashed by these insidious games they cannot see the forest for the trees.

Barely began to expand its horizons? It has been almost two years now and PVP is crap, PVE is the same thing it was when it launched and WvW is still ZvZ.

WvW is not Z v Z -if you ACTAULLY played season 2, you would know. The end of season2 (Tier 1 servers) have shown that. The Guilds that worked and planned together win big, the servers that mindlessly zerg do not.

They have added things, they have been tweaking things and, do you know how long it takes to translate a game from English to Chinese, properly? Kudos to An.Net for being a small company but pushing on.

Anet is anything but small o.o

I mean, they aren’t Nintendo or Blizzard size, but having over 300 developers means you really aren’t a small company anymore.

That is all the people they have – 300 – that includes top brass and everything. Blizzard was at around 4700 as to 2012 (according to wiki). So, they are not start up, but they are not a behemoth that other companies are. Even CCP is 2X larger than A.net (that was in 2009 and they are bigger now).

It sounds like A.Net is being conservative in their hiring and growth – which can be good and bad.

Like what? raids? gear treadmill? For a start if gw2 is losing players, that really doesn’t concern you as player, that’s the company’s problem. You as a player only have to worry about having fun in the game. That doesn’t mean i don’t care about the game, i support it whenever i can and that’s what we all should do if we want to get that new content, not just complain about it.

But no matter what’s laid out before you, the company can’t make u have fun. You have to find your own fun. They can give you the tools, the environments and places to go, but ultimately it’s up to you to enjoy the world they’ve created for you.

If you only ever played games that held you hand, told you what to do every step of the way and don’t u dare sway form that arrow pointing u ahead you may not find gw2 satisfying, because in gw2, you have to make your own goals. The tools are there, the content is there, you just got to decided what you want to do form the plethora of choices on the table.

And fyi, I’ve been playing gw2 since BWE1 and every day since head start. My daily play varies, but suffice to say i’ve played well over 5k hours and i have hardly touched the dungeons, have played a bit of WvW, but i’ve not set foot in PvP as yet. I have x9 lvl 80 all with 100% map completions, i got all my crafts to 500 and i have crafted a legendary weapon, The Birfrost. Ive never farmed and i’ve earned my legendary weapon, simply through playing the game. Sure it took me a long time but that was ok by me, it was a long term plan of mine anyway. I’ve not gambled on Mystic Forge to get it either. Granted it would have been more epic if the precursor dropped for me but i’m not that lucky so i bought mine and despite all of that i’m not exactly poor.

Granted, i too am dying for some new maps etc and they will come, but seriously, i think gw2 has more replayable content than many other games out there of the same age and some even older ones.

How can i think that? Well for a start in a typical MMO, you go through maps in order of lvls and as u lvl up all the areas behind you become obsolete, u never go there, even if you missed some places. So you rush to so called end game and what’s waiting for you there? 1 or 2 dungeons and gear grind where u get to run those dungeons over and over and over ad nauseum.

Meanwhile in gw2, I log in i do what i want, i go where i please, i do events in whatever gorgeous map i want and complete my dailies/monthlies along the way, do a bit of crafting, a bit of gathering, a bit of chest hunting, do a few world bosses sometimes i do some jumping puzzles and before i know it, several hours have gone by. Well that to me is much more fun than being stuck in some dark, boring dungeon day in and day out, rarely seeing daylight, but that’s just me.

Holy crap I haven’t agreed with a piece of statement on this forum so much until now. I tell this to some people all the time although not with much effort. I simply tell them to play another typical mmo and you will start missing gw’s concept. I’m so kitten happy that I can do what ever I want and I was kitten near in tears when I found out end game gear was craftable and not based on RNG or a cash shop.

Facepalm @ OP.

Lots of people flock to new games to try it out, and leave after a month or less if they don’t really enjoy it (I have 8 friends who did this, they didn’t even play GW1, yet preordered GW2).

When GW2 released in August 2012 in the rest of the world, the same thing happened.

It happens with all overhyped games.

It is not a strong indication of anything.

Another reason people temporarily try new games, is to take a break from their old favourite for a little while.

What the stats say in 4-6 months is a much better indication.

Flash.6912:

and then 1 month later China realize there is no end game in gw2…

PvE is never the “end game” in any MMO.

PvE cannot retain players for 10 years. It is stagnant and has a very low skill ceiling (low self improvement). GW2 PvE skill ceiling: Stack in corner, stack might, zerk/FGS it to death. There is nothing more to learn for PvE past this.

PvP in every MMO has always been the “end game”.

PvP has the potential to retain players for 10 years as long as the company looks after it. PvP is different every time you log in, you always face something new, it is always unpredictable. PvP also has an unlimited skill ceiling (unlimited self improvement).

I’ll say it again, PvP is the end game in MMO’s, not PvE.

Tiger Ashante.1792:

Now I know some trolls and sourpusses will come along and try to negate this with various rhetoric “it’s a new game”, it’s the honeymoon" etc. etc. etc.

http://www.vgchartz.com/weekly/41735/Europe/

Not sure who you’d call a troll here but, with all the flack it got AFTER release, guess who’s number one on (surprise, surprise!) the first week of launch.

Anyhow, if you’d really wanted to give ANet a pat on the back, come back after 6-8 months and let us know how their retention is looking.

thaooo.5320:

Flash.6912:

and then 1 month later China realize there is no end game in gw2…

PvE is never the “end game” in any MMO.

PvE cannot retain players for 10 years. It is stagnant and has a very low skill ceiling (low self improvement). GW2 PvE skill ceiling: Stack in corner, stack might, zerk/FGS it to death. There is nothing more to learn for PvE past this.

PvP in every MMO has always been the “end game”.

PvP has the potential to retain players for 10 years as long as the company looks after it. PvP is different every time you log in, you always face something new, it is always unpredictable. PvP also has an unlimited skill ceiling (unlimited self improvement).

I’ll say it again, PvP is the end game in MMO’s, not PvE.

What? I was in a top raiding guild when I played WoW and PVE WAS the main goal. In fact most things were based on pve raids.

Sunshine.4680:

thaooo.5320:

Flash.6912:

and then 1 month later China realize there is no end game in gw2…

PvE is never the “end game” in any MMO.

PvE cannot retain players for 10 years. It is stagnant and has a very low skill ceiling (low self improvement). GW2 PvE skill ceiling: Stack in corner, stack might, zerk/FGS it to death. There is nothing more to learn for PvE past this.

PvP in every MMO has always been the “end game”.

PvP has the potential to retain players for 10 years as long as the company looks after it. PvP is different every time you log in, you always face something new, it is always unpredictable. PvP also has an unlimited skill ceiling (unlimited self improvement).

I’ll say it again, PvP is the end game in MMO’s, not PvE.

What? I was in a top raiding guild when I played WoW and PVE WAS the main goal. In fact most things were based on pve raids.

Aside from difficulty, raiding is no different to any other PvE content.
- Find optimal set ups, then;
- “Run this build, use this group composition”
- Repeat monotony

It’s the same for GW2 dungeons, same for GW1 DOA/UW/FoW/Urgoz/Deep.

PvE is low skill cap, and relatively stagnant once solved.

Without PvP, MMO’s don’t last long. Imagine WoW without PvP, and only having PvE…. yeah, dead.

thaooo.5320:

Sunshine.4680:

thaooo.5320:

Flash.6912:

and then 1 month later China realize there is no end game in gw2…

PvE is never the “end game” in any MMO.

PvE cannot retain players for 10 years. It is stagnant and has a very low skill ceiling (low self improvement). GW2 PvE skill ceiling: Stack in corner, stack might, zerk/FGS it to death. There is nothing more to learn for PvE past this.

PvP in every MMO has always been the “end game”.

PvP has the potential to retain players for 10 years as long as the company looks after it. PvP is different every time you log in, you always face something new, it is always unpredictable. PvP also has an unlimited skill ceiling (unlimited self improvement).

I’ll say it again, PvP is the end game in MMO’s, not PvE.

What? I was in a top raiding guild when I played WoW and PVE WAS the main goal. In fact most things were based on pve raids.

Aside from difficulty, raiding is no different to any other PvE content.
- Find optimal set ups, then;
- “Run this build, use this group composition”
- Repeat monotony

It’s the same for GW2 dungeons, same for GW1 DOA/UW/FoW/Urgoz/Deep.

PvE is low skill cap, and relatively stagnant once solved.

Without PvP, MMO’s don’t last long. Imagine WoW without PvP, and only having PvE…. yeah, dead.

WoW dead seriously? The strong point about WoW is their main PvE, good dungeons design/fights. PvE is what keep WoW strong 10 years+ and its still #1 MMO right now. All im saying is GW2 need some good long dungeons raiding and perm stuff, not like Living World crap can be done w/in a day.

^ I agree with that last sentence 100%.

thaooo.5320:

Sunshine.4680:

thaooo.5320:

Flash.6912:

and then 1 month later China realize there is no end game in gw2…

PvE is never the “end game” in any MMO.

PvE cannot retain players for 10 years. It is stagnant and has a very low skill ceiling (low self improvement). GW2 PvE skill ceiling: Stack in corner, stack might, zerk/FGS it to death. There is nothing more to learn for PvE past this.

PvP in every MMO has always been the “end game”.

PvP has the potential to retain players for 10 years as long as the company looks after it. PvP is different every time you log in, you always face something new, it is always unpredictable. PvP also has an unlimited skill ceiling (unlimited self improvement).

I’ll say it again, PvP is the end game in MMO’s, not PvE.

What? I was in a top raiding guild when I played WoW and PVE WAS the main goal. In fact most things were based on pve raids.

Aside from difficulty, raiding is no different to any other PvE content.
- Find optimal set ups, then;
- “Run this build, use this group composition”
- Repeat monotony

It’s the same for GW2 dungeons, same for GW1 DOA/UW/FoW/Urgoz/Deep.

PvE is low skill cap, and relatively stagnant once solved.

Without PvP, MMO’s don’t last long. Imagine WoW without PvP, and only having PvE…. yeah, dead.

Nobody went to WoW for pvp, you have mobas for pure pvp type stuff. Sure arena is popular but WoW raids are what get it’s costumers and world firsts are huge there. PvE is no where near low skill cap lol. Some hard modes are only doable by some of the best guilds and players.

thaooo.5320:

Without PvP, MMO’s don’t last long. Imagine WoW without PvP, and only having PvE…. yeah, dead.

I don’t know about WoW, but try LOTRO’s PvP as endgame. It’s not good, and it was only put in as a sidegame in the first place. The endgame there (such as it is) is PvE. I haven’t played it for some time because I got bored with the PvE, but from what I hear it’s not getting any better and PvP is still not a main focus for the devs there.

Without PvP, LOTRO would be fine. A few less moaners, that would be the biggest difference.