Guild Wars 2

As an MMO player who doesn’t like platform, I great dislike jump puzzles. For me MMOs are RPG/combat oriented. But if GW2 have or not jumpe puzzles I used to not care…

But with new Mastery points (central Tyria) mechanic, the game requires you to do jump puzzles to progress. I never hated an MMO as I’m hating playing GW2 now. It’s very frustrating to play a game that forces you to play a way it’s not the core gameplay.

How does it require jumping puzzles?

I agree with the OP
When i started to play i loved some jp but after a while they became a nightmare, and now with the new maps is even worse, i dont have world maps completition for that reason, so i never started to make a legendary weapon, and now i even dont expoore the new maps, i ve just done the story, and i dont think to go back in these maps

I’m not a big fan of jumping puzzles (Actually I hate them), and there is quite a bit of required jumping in HoT.

However I just have to endure them as they are a necessity to progress through the game.

Whatever game you decide to play there’s going to be some bits you don’t like, and others that you do like.

Edit….

Just to add to that, I’m not keen on flying or jump pads in games either.

However I think the gliding and jumping mushrooms have been very well executed in HoT.

i still don´t see where Central Tyria Mastery requires jumping puzzles.

CptTrips.6512:

i still don´t see where Central Tyria Mastery requires jumping puzzles.

I suspect zone completions come in here somewhere but like you I’m baffled ATM.

There are a couple of zone completions that require jumping puzzles, notably the Straits of Devestation (Vizier’s Tower), and Dredgehaunt Cliffs (Tribulation Scaffolding), and Diessa Plateau (The Great Wall).

There may be others too. Most of those are easily portaled. I’ve portaled many people in my guild who don’t like JPs to those places.

Guilho.1265:

As an MMO player who doesn’t like platform, I great dislike jump puzzles. For me MMOs are RPG/combat oriented. But if GW2 have or not jumpe puzzles I used to not care…

But with new Mastery points (central Tyria) mechanic, the game requires you to do jump puzzles to progress. I never hated an MMO as I’m hating playing GW2 now. It’s very frustrating to play a game that forces you to play a way it’s not the core gameplay.

Also avoided platforming games in general.

Agreed that the initial core gameplay and gameplay mechanics have changed drastically in places. Original, you could do the story in a variety of ways or not. Now your stuck with a gated story. Had I known HoT was structured so differently than the original, I probably would not have come back to it with high expectations. But unlikely I’ll sink any more money into the game.

Not everyone wants or cares to play the game the way the devs and accountants designed, but it’s unlikely ANET is going to provide alternatives for anything they perceive as ‘working as intended’. So I’ll just stick with the parts that I still enjoy until those start leeching fun from playing it.

But what does map completion have to do with Tyria masteries?

I love the varied and tricky to traverse maps myself, very interesting and very rewarding when you can successfully navigate them eventually.

It wouldn’t be so bad if the terrain physics were consistent, especially between character types. Charr and Norn have it terrible.

What’s more frustrating is the pitiful jump height and the horribly uneven ledges they expect you to traverse, such that the slightest hill could stump a jumper for a solid minute, assuming the surface is jumpable at all and not “too slick” or “invisible walled”.

Or running into the other physics problem where pushing forward and jump doesn’t work, but jump then forward (in totally cartoon/platformer fashion) is actually the solution.

It is funny that some complains about the HoT maps when OP actually complained about Central Tyria …

In my opinion HoT maps are no JP at all compaired to an easy JP, sure there are ledges and places where flying is a must but it is not very hard. But sure we all likes different things, I myself like platform games to a certain degree and GW2 has just that perfect mix, it is not to hard and not to easy and at some points you not only have to run and 111111 but you have to use your brain now and then.

There is a ton of jumping, often aimlessly and without success. I don’t know about masteries since I don’t have HoT but have you guys even tried to get vistas? Most annoying kitten ever.

So can someone please explain what Jumping puzzles have to do with Central Tyria masteries?

I have done most of Tiria map completition and the few vistas and stuff that are behind a jumping puzzle are not really hard to do (and I suck at them)
Just as you might not like it, others enjoy it a lot, and having to beat a good jp to gain a vista or hero point is amazing

Yamialexa.5103:

How does it require jumping puzzles?

To him, anything requiring jumping from one spot, over a gap, to another spot, is a jumping puzzle.

There are actually a lot of people that feel the way he does.

I’ve yet to come across anything requiring advanced jumping skillz.

Maybe he thinks of gliding as really long jumping, and thus another puzzle.

Personally I love jumping puzzles. Everything about them. I think they should add more elaborate ones, heck even make raids take place while actively having to do tricky jumps.

But that’s me…

Is map completion required for Tyria mastery? If not, then what do JP’s have to do with Tyria Masteries?

IndigoSundown.5419:

Is map completion required for Tyria mastery? If not, then what do JP’s have to do with Tyria Masteries?

I believe – and don’t quote me as I’m not sure – that some of the Jumping Puzzle achievements give a mastery point for completing them. I’m pretty sure that to get one Mastery Point you need to get the Dive Master Achievement, which is locked behind some JP’s.

AdaephonDelat.3890:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Is map completion required for Tyria mastery? If not, then what do JP’s have to do with Tyria Masteries?

I believe – and don’t quote me as I’m not sure – that some of the Jumping Puzzle achievements give a mastery point for completing them. I’m pretty sure that to get one Mastery Point you need to get the Dive Master Achievement, which is locked behind some JP’s.

If there’s a mastery point for Dive Master achievement then I hope they made it so you can see which ones you’re missing (I haven’t checked). And one of those is locked behind one of the hardest JPs, the Not So Secret Jumping Puzzle. It’s the actual dive that is stupid difficult to get perfect. And if you fail, omg you start all over. It’s one of 2 dives I’m missing. The other dive? I have no effing clue. I went through each one by one with dulfy, got to the end and was at 36/38. Now to play the guessing game…

That said. They are mastery points. Dive Master would imply mastery. If you want to 100% this game you have to do all of the JPs anyway. I think missing one mastery point will not kill anyone.

I love how some people want to be able to do all content in the game, but without having to do all of the content in the game lol.

The only JP that gives a mastery point is Hidden Gardens and that is one of the easier ones.

Edit: it is also not necessary to get everything to max out every available mastery. you can miss 7 or 8 and it will still be fine

Yamialexa.5103:

But what does map completion have to do with Tyria masteries?

In order to get mastery points, you have to complete certain jump puzzles.

And there is a mastery point for the Lion’s Arch Exterminator achievement. Part of that requires you to do stuff part way into a JP.

Accurate jumping is not my favourite thing in any game but I find it that bit harder in GW because of a combination of sluggish controls and daft camera behaviour. I’ve fallen several times whilst trying to shuffle along a bit just so the camera will show me enough for the next jump.

I loathe PVP but had to get 40 pts of tier pvp for the glorious chest skin for my char, the only human medium armor for males that is not a coat or doesnt have buttflaps. We all gotta do things we dont like to earn things we want. But that is not a design mistake.

I am another who can not stand jumping puzzles. I thoroughly enjoy exploration and was thrilled to learn that GW2 rewarded such an activity. I had my mind set to earning the Been There, Done That title. Please understand, I don’t care one whit about equipment or legendaries or stuff like that. I just want(ed) the title because it was proof that I’d, well, Been There.

I say “want(ed)” because the jumping puzzles have dashed that hope. As noted in a few posts above, there are some vistas that REQUIRE jumping puzzles. Having tried (and failed) countless times, I have given up. That both saddens and angers me, because had I known from the outset that jumping puzzles were included in the exploration title, I would not have wasted my time even starting. I feel as if my time has been wasted. I don’t mind wasting my own time but I don’t like having others waste it for me.

Some have said I should befriend a porter and simply have them port me up to the offending vistas. Or join a guild to find a porter. To me, that sounds sleazy and I won’t do it. I don’t like the idea of “befriending” people just to use them. That goes counter to who I am, both in real life and in game.

I also say “want(ed)” because I’ve pretty much stopped playing now. Not “just” because of the jumping puzzles; although they’re a major factor, there’s a bit more to it than that. Lately, I’ve been signing in just to do Dailies and that’s about it. Even Dailies are beginning to feel like chore. I don’t have HoT and have no intention whatsoever of getting it. It does not offer anything at all that is of interest to me. Now, hearing that HoT has required jumping aspects, that’s yet another reason I won’t be purchasing it.

Guilho.1265:

As an MMO player who doesn’t like platform, I great dislike jump puzzles. For me MMOs are RPG/combat oriented. But if GW2 have or not jumpe puzzles I used to not care…

But with new Mastery points (central Tyria) mechanic, the game requires you to do jump puzzles to progress. I never hated an MMO as I’m hating playing GW2 now. It’s very frustrating to play a game that forces you to play a way it’s not the core gameplay.

I would love to see JP’s unlocks special rewards. Having some mastery points locked behind them is a step in the right direction. Anyway, there are other ways to get them as well so don’t really get the complain.

JPs are definitely not my favorite content, though I’ve completed a lot of them in 3 years’ time. The most annoying ones, for me, are the ones I repeat due to map completions. The JP in VB is really annoying me right now in particular.

Emelyn.8729:

I am another who can not stand jumping puzzles. I thoroughly enjoy exploration and was thrilled to learn that GW2 rewarded such an activity. I had my mind set to earning the Been There, Done That title. Please understand, I don’t care one whit about equipment or legendaries or stuff like that. I just want(ed) the title because it was proof that I’d, well, Been There.

Been playing 2 years. Hated jumping stuff when I started. Could not do map completion without jumping to get to vistas, so I just kept at it. Then when I actually got into puzzles it got harder. So I just spent a few weeks practicing jumping skills, where to position the camera, do I jump then move or move and jump. Each puzzle is different. Finally I’ve done all but a couple. I have map completion on my four characters and wow the jumping stuff was so easy later I could not believe I used to think it was hard! Ha.

I’m a roamer and play alone most of the time. You should have seen me do WvW by myself. Sneaking around to each waypoint, IP and vista trying not to get killed. Made the jumping stuff look simple. Finally got the “Been there..” title.

Don’t give up on jumping. It’s just a hand-eye-computer coordination skill that can be learned with practice.

OMG YES!

Hate jumping puzzles ‘cos I’m old and useless.

The absolute nadir for me was trying to get the Diving Mastery achievement only to find one was gated behind one of the nasty jump puzzles in that secret Deidre area.

It’s not the Diving and Jumping mastery achievement!

NO MORE JUMPING CRAP, IT’S 90’S PLATFORM SUCKFEST STUFF.
P.S. Only my opinion of course.

#WhatDoesThisHaveToDoWithMapComplete.

On a serious note.
As a game designer there isn’t a flaw in what you speak of in post 1.
The maps are done well and how you get to places feels right. I have yet to find a jumping puzzle in verdant brink or Auric Basin; that said I haven’t finished the maps.

On a design aspect though, making the player play the game isn’t a problem. Making them have to stop and think about what is ahead of them is not a mistake. Jumping puzzles are meant to slow down, and smell the fresh air to enjoy what they made.
Again, not a design flaw. Jumping puzzles are also a minor form of challenging content.

Lastly your opinion of MMO is wrong but to each their own.
For starters this is an MMORPG, I assume you know what that stands for.
It is simply a rpg game with multiplayer aspects. Slowing down players, and catering to the masses is but one aspect of what a MMORPG is.
Thus it is much more than just combat. Feel free to correct me if I have read your post wrong.

Yeah, that single mastery point from dive master…

Ampa.2749:

Been playing 2 years. Hated jumping stuff when I started. Could not do map completion without jumping to get to vistas, so I just kept at it. Then when I actually got into puzzles it got harder. So I just spent a few weeks practicing jumping skills, where to position the camera, do I jump then move or move and jump. Each puzzle is different. Finally I’ve done all but a couple. I have map completion on my four characters and wow the jumping stuff was so easy later I could not believe I used to think it was hard! Ha.

I’m a roamer and play alone most of the time. You should have seen me do WvW by myself. Sneaking around to each waypoint, IP and vista trying not to get killed. Made the jumping stuff look simple. Finally got the “Been there..” title.

Don’t give up on jumping. It’s just a hand-eye-computer coordination skill that can be learned with practice.

That sounds so much like my story, except I’ve only been in the game some six months. In time, I came to love jps and still do a couple daily for fun (honest!)
With WvW that’s exactly what I did too – sneak around, and it was exciting as hell. Had some close shaves. I’m doing the same with the new borderlands now and it’s exciting all over again.

There was simply to little time to create new exploring content for the expansion, like lots of maps and dungeons. That is why we get ‘in dept’ content, meaning things like jump puzzles and high level crafting (which needs lots of grinding). In other words: Anet found ways to keep players busy by making things harder to get. I also don’t like jump puzzles, or grinding for crafting, or things like Fractals. But without it, there would be not much content left duhhh…

Don’t like the trend towards platforming in this game. Hopefully the next expansion won’t depend so much on platforming skills.

Platforming is love! Platforming is life!

(You don’t need to do any PJ for XP, just farm SW events, dungeons…)

Riku.4821:

#WhatDoesThisHaveToDoWithMapComplete.

On a serious note.
As a game designer there isn’t a flaw in what you speak of in post 1.
The maps are done well and how you get to places feels right. I have yet to find a jumping puzzle in verdant brink or Auric Basin; that said I haven’t finished the maps.

On a design aspect though, making the player play the game isn’t a problem. Making them have to stop and think about what is ahead of them is not a mistake. Jumping puzzles are meant to slow down, and smell the fresh air to enjoy what they made.
Again, not a design flaw. Jumping puzzles are also a minor form of challenging content.

Lastly your opinion of MMO is wrong but to each their own.
For starters this is an MMORPG, I assume you know what that stands for.
It is simply a rpg game with multiplayer aspects. Slowing down players, and catering to the masses is but one aspect of what a MMORPG is.
Thus it is much more than just combat. Feel free to correct me if I have read your post wrong.

There are at least two JP in Auric Basin. One is gated by story the other is gated by gliding mastery (you need leyline line gliding to do it). Getting to the mastery point where Fallen Masks takes place can probably count as one as well. On the other hand none of that has anything to do with core mastery points …

I’ve done all the JPs, but I can’t blame people for hating them. This game does not have proper platforming mechanics when it comes to controlling your character.

The biggest design mistake is a horizontal progression system that largely rewards skins coupled with the restrictive transmutation system.

roamzero.9486:

The biggest design mistake is a horizontal progression system that largely rewards skins coupled with the restrictive transmutation system.

I agree with you. While the point about jumping and the camera make that issue another big design issue, the transmutation system, as opposed to something like the wardrobe slots you see in LotRO discourage multiple looks for a character rather than encouraging it.

Agreed. I have done all jumping puzzles for AP and I know this game’s engine is waaay too bad for platforming. I have no idea why they are forcing it especially in a freaking MMO

Emelyn.8729:

I am another who can not stand jumping puzzles. I thoroughly enjoy exploration and was thrilled to learn that GW2 rewarded such an activity. I had my mind set to earning the Been There, Done That title. Please understand, I don’t care one whit about equipment or legendaries or stuff like that. I just want(ed) the title because it was proof that I’d, well, Been There.

I say “want(ed)” because the jumping puzzles have dashed that hope. As noted in a few posts above, there are some vistas that REQUIRE jumping puzzles. Having tried (and failed) countless times, I have given up. That both saddens and angers me, because had I known from the outset that jumping puzzles were included in the exploration title, I would not have wasted my time even starting. I feel as if my time has been wasted. I don’t mind wasting my own time but I don’t like having others waste it for me.

Some have said I should befriend a porter and simply have them port me up to the offending vistas. Or join a guild to find a porter. To me, that sounds sleazy and I won’t do it. I don’t like the idea of “befriending” people just to use them. That goes counter to who I am, both in real life and in game.

I also say “want(ed)” because I’ve pretty much stopped playing now. Not “just” because of the jumping puzzles; although they’re a major factor, there’s a bit more to it than that. Lately, I’ve been signing in just to do Dailies and that’s about it. Even Dailies are beginning to feel like chore. I don’t have HoT and have no intention whatsoever of getting it. It does not offer anything at all that is of interest to me. Now, hearing that HoT has required jumping aspects, that’s yet another reason I won’t be purchasing it.

If you’re NA and see me online, provided my mesmer is high enough level to get to the JP you need (or you’re willing to help escort her there and keep her safe if she’s not level 80 at the time), send me a message and I’ll be willing to port to where you need if you want. I just ask for patience as I’m not the best with jumping and my mesmer’s a Norn.

This goes to anyone needing a JP. As long as it’s a map completion related one I know I can do them. I’m not that good at the more difficult jumping puzzles. So don’t ask for Troll’s Revenge.

I was just about to say… I need to make a Mesmer friend or two.

(I hateses them JP too!)

roamzero.9486:

The biggest design mistake is a horizontal progression system that largely rewards skins coupled with the restrictive transmutation system.

Well what else could possibly be rewarded with a horizontal progression system if not skins? Obviously better stats is vertical, so what’s left?

If you are against horizontal progression in general then what the heck are you doing playing GW2 lol

No one mentioned this so far, so I wonder.
You do realize that the whole new area is designed as one big kitten , hostile jungle?

Point is, there are just so many ways you can go through a jungle. One way would be with a machete or with fire and sword so to say, but we saw how far the Pakt came with that.
Another way is to “fly” through the trees like Tarzan.
Granted, the gliders and mushrooms are nothing compared to tree sliding but pretty solid to give you a slight feeling that you are in hard to traverse wilderness.

So I believe it is not a design mistake but a well thought through choice.

Similar with some jp in Tyria. When the viewing point is up in some Ruins and the game didn’t have a “climb” function, you have to jump, easy as that.

Creating anything the relies on being able to precisely time something like jumping in a game with variable latency is, in my opinion, not very well thought out.

If it’s something short, and only causes a minor inconvenience if you screw up, that’s not really much of an issue. It could even be fun. But if you spend thirty minutes trying to get somewhere only to fall to your death because the network decided to randomly have a latency spike when you tried to jump, that’s more than a little irritating to say the least.

I don’t hate the jumping puzzles themselves. I hate the fact that whether or not I succeed depends just as much on my network latency as my reaction time. For some of the content, it is a huge PITA to have to start over.

100% agree with the OP. Jumping Puzzles are horrid and HoT goes beyond horrid to complete cr*p because of the platforming.

Draknar.5748:

roamzero.9486:

The biggest design mistake is a horizontal progression system that largely rewards skins coupled with the restrictive transmutation system.

Well what else could possibly be rewarded with a horizontal progression system if not skins? Obviously better stats is vertical, so what’s left?

If you are against horizontal progression in general then what the heck are you doing playing GW2 lol

Im not against a horizontal system at all, the problem is that Anet is shooting itself in the foot with the way the rewards are designed. When I get skins I’d love to be able to use them all and make different looks/char designs around them. But destructively overwriting old looks on my ascended armor by burning transmute charges? Bleh! What’s that? Make another ascended armor set to waste bank/inv space just so I can swap looks? No thanks.

Anet really needs to get its head out of its butt on this issue. I even wouldn’t mind paying gems to buy outfit templates to apply skins to with transmute charges if it means I can freely swap looks over gear.

Pockets.3201:

I’ve done all the JPs, but I can’t blame people for hating them. This game does not have proper platforming mechanics when it comes to controlling your character.

Ohgawd, thank you for saying this. I thought I was alone.

There’s a big difference between the frustration of “maybe I just need practice” and the frustration of “the controls are crap and why aren’t they designing for their controls”.
Egg skill #2, I’m looking at you, by the way. You have no place in Sanctum Scramble(d Egg).

DarcShriek.5829:

Yamialexa.5103:

But what does map completion have to do with Tyria masteries?

In order to get mastery points, you have to complete certain jump puzzles.

Complete a map to get a huge chunk of Exp towards the Mastery Track.

To be honest, boosting the Mastery Tracks is where the Alt-oholics have an edge as long as all the alts have not finished World Completion. I’m doing it with HoT and the HoT story. Run each character through the story and get chunks of Exp towards the Mastery. Makes getting the higher tier Masteries go faster.

Xyrus.6037:

Creating anything the relies on being able to precisely time something like jumping in a game with variable latency is, in my opinion, not very well thought out.

If it’s something short, and only causes a minor inconvenience if you screw up, that’s not really much of an issue. It could even be fun. But if you spend thirty minutes trying to get somewhere only to fall to your death because the network decided to randomly have a latency spike when you tried to jump, that’s more than a little irritating to say the least.

I don’t hate the jumping puzzles themselves. I hate the fact that whether or not I succeed depends just as much on my network latency as my reaction time. For some of the content, it is a huge PITA to have to start over.

Why is there a difference in getting a network problem and dying because of it in a jumping puzzle but not during a world event or world versus world? In my opinion it is worse for world versus world. So you’re opinion sounds more of a personal problem and not a design flaw.

Adding to Riku:
When making an MMO you can’t stop and think “wait, can people with wooden modems and Hamster Wheel powered PCs do that”