Big news coming soon?
Oh we’ve had this discussion regarding ANet transparency several times. ANet seems to be allergic to announcing things.
Thing is, Anet is owned completely by NCSoft, unless NCSoft decides to pay for more than 25 developers to work on GW2, nothing is going to happen. The other 275+ might as well be working on Wildstar for all we know.
Thing is, Anet is owned completely by NCSoft, unless NCSoft decides to pay for more than 25 developers to work on GW2, nothing is going to happen. The other 275+ might as well be working on Wildstar for all we know.
Of course they aren’t working for Carbine. Geez. smh All 350 employees work for ArenaNet, but that doesn’t mean they are all game developers. There is more to running a game studio than just creating content.
Thing is, Anet is owned completely by NCSoft, unless NCSoft decides to pay for more than 25 developers to work on GW2, nothing is going to happen. The other 275+ might as well be working on Wildstar for all we know.
Yeah.. except for the fact that those 300+ employees are employed by ArenaNet not NCSoft, and as such they would not work on a non-ArenaNet project.
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Thing is, Anet is owned completely by NCSoft, unless NCSoft decides to pay for more than 25 developers to work on GW2, nothing is going to happen. The other 275+ might as well be working on Wildstar for all we know.
Good joke .. people already ask now to merge all german servers .. 2 ? months after release .. so yeah .. maybe they need the ANet devs for a short time to create a Mega-Server for then
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.
Thing is, Anet is owned completely by NCSoft, unless NCSoft decides to pay for more than 25 developers to work on GW2, nothing is going to happen. The other 275+ might as well be working on Wildstar for all we know.
Yeah.. except for the fact that those 300+ employees are employed by ArenaNet not NCSoft, and as such they would not work on a non-ArenaNet project.
Its still NCSoft that decides where to spend the manpower. And its obvious that its not being spent on GW2.
Anet is reluctant to talk about anything before they are 100% comfortable with its development and that it won’t be changed.
And also to avoid economic kitten shows whenever they announce new things. I’m looking at you picture of night cycle meteorlogicus that caused storm to rise 400 gold in price in the span of 2 hours.
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
They where vocal during season 1 and too many players decided their blog was an unbreakable oath.
Its still NCSoft that decides where to spend the manpower. And its obvious that its not being spent on GW2.
No it isn’t.
It is NCSoft that decides where to put money. Sure they can tell ArenaNet that they must put all their 300 employees at this specific issues or else they will lose their funding, but they can’t order ArenaNet employees to work on non-ArenaNet projects. They are hired by ArenaNet, not NCSoft.
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Its still NCSoft that decides where to spend the manpower. And its obvious that its not being spent on GW2.
No it isn’t.
It is NCSoft that decides where to put money. Sure they can tell ArenaNet that they must put all their 300 employees at this specific issues or else they will lose their funding, but they can’t order ArenaNet employees to work on non-ArenaNet projects. They are hired by ArenaNet, not NCSoft.
It doesnt really matter what other thing they’re working on, the game I mentioned was just an example. Point is, it’s not GW2 or we would have heard something by now.
Its still NCSoft that decides where to spend the manpower. And its obvious that its not being spent on GW2.
No it isn’t.
It is NCSoft that decides where to put money. Sure they can tell ArenaNet that they must put all their 300 employees at this specific issues or else they will lose their funding, but they can’t order ArenaNet employees to work on non-ArenaNet projects. They are hired by ArenaNet, not NCSoft.
It doesnt really matter what other thing they’re working on, the game I mentioned was just an example. Point is, it’s not GW2 or we would have heard something by now.
Your making things up to fit the views you have at this point.
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA
Any big announcements for the game will likely be announced a bit before the next feature pack which will be after ls2.
Its still NCSoft that decides where to spend the manpower. And its obvious that its not being spent on GW2.
No it isn’t.
It is NCSoft that decides where to put money. Sure they can tell ArenaNet that they must put all their 300 employees at this specific issues or else they will lose their funding, but they can’t order ArenaNet employees to work on non-ArenaNet projects. They are hired by ArenaNet, not NCSoft.
It doesnt really matter what other thing they’re working on, the game I mentioned was just an example. Point is, it’s not GW2 or we would have heard something by now.
Your making things up to fit the views you have at this point.
That goes for everything everyone sais about everything minus official announcements by anet.
It’s just an assumption, but there obviously are reasons which lead to making that assumption.
They where vocal during season 1 and too many players decided their blog was an unbreakable oath.
The problem arose from someone saying we were getting an “Expansion’s worth of content”. The issue is because that just didn’t happen. Over hype set a bar of expectation that couldn’t be met. People had a right to be upset. When the expansion for your first game(s) is “Eye of the North” people have a preconceived notion of your definition of an expansion. EotN has way more content than anything that came out last season. They corrected the issue by not saying stuff like that anymore. My issue overall is that I feel the quality and breadth of content in GW2 is way down from GW1. You can’t go from releasing a ton of content in your first game to releasing these piecemeal short stories and not expect a little ire over it.
Its still NCSoft that decides where to spend the manpower. And its obvious that its not being spent on GW2.
No it isn’t.
It is NCSoft that decides where to put money. Sure they can tell ArenaNet that they must put all their 300 employees at this specific issues or else they will lose their funding, but they can’t order ArenaNet employees to work on non-ArenaNet projects. They are hired by ArenaNet, not NCSoft.
It doesnt really matter what other thing they’re working on, the game I mentioned was just an example. Point is, it’s not GW2 or we would have heard something by now.
Your making things up to fit the views you have at this point.
That goes for everything everyone sais about everything minus official announcements by anet.
It’s just an assumption, but there obviously are reasons which lead to making that assumption.
But your making a BIG leap and not even trying to justify why your making that leap. Its the same level of logic of “If i have this pin and there are no tigers in the room then this pin must be keeping the tigers away and or out of this room.” Do you have any thing backing up what your saying?
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA
Its still NCSoft that decides where to spend the manpower. And its obvious that its not being spent on GW2.
No it isn’t.
It is NCSoft that decides where to put money. Sure they can tell ArenaNet that they must put all their 300 employees at this specific issues or else they will lose their funding, but they can’t order ArenaNet employees to work on non-ArenaNet projects. They are hired by ArenaNet, not NCSoft.
It doesnt really matter what other thing they’re working on, the game I mentioned was just an example. Point is, it’s not GW2 or we would have heard something by now.
Your making things up to fit the views you have at this point.
That goes for everything everyone sais about everything minus official announcements by anet.
It’s just an assumption, but there obviously are reasons which lead to making that assumption.
But your making a BIG leap and not even trying to justify why your making that leap. Its the same level of logic of “If i have this pin and there are no tigers in the room then this pin must be keeping the tigers away and or out of this room.” Do you have any thing backing up what your saying?
Not seeing anything from the other 300 developers for 2 years, despite having a working content pipeline is what i based that comment on. If that is not a valid observation in your book then you can ignore me.
Its still NCSoft that decides where to spend the manpower. And its obvious that its not being spent on GW2.
No it isn’t.
It is NCSoft that decides where to put money. Sure they can tell ArenaNet that they must put all their 300 employees at this specific issues or else they will lose their funding, but they can’t order ArenaNet employees to work on non-ArenaNet projects. They are hired by ArenaNet, not NCSoft.
It doesnt really matter what other thing they’re working on, the game I mentioned was just an example. Point is, it’s not GW2 or we would have heard something by now.
Your making things up to fit the views you have at this point.
That goes for everything everyone sais about everything minus official announcements by anet.
It’s just an assumption, but there obviously are reasons which lead to making that assumption.
But your making a BIG leap and not even trying to justify why your making that leap. Its the same level of logic of “If i have this pin and there are no tigers in the room then this pin must be keeping the tigers away and or out of this room.” Do you have any thing backing up what your saying?
Not seeing anything from the other 300 developers for 2 years, despite having a working content pipeline is what i based what i said on. If that is not a valid observation in your book then you can ignore me.
What do you watch them go to work or something and not seen them or are you watching there houses and no one come in or out for 2 years (you may want to call the cops if that true) beyond that you have no ideal what your talking about and have no way to back up any thing your saying. If any thing you would think they are “Working” that why they are not saying any thing to your seemingly godly post that cant be ignored.
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA
Just a reminder: in a little more than a week, Blizzard is going to announce the release date of Warlords of Draenor, together with cinematic (gamescom). There’s a prediction that the expansion itself may hit in less than next 3 months.
I really, really wish that ArenaNet will announce something bigger than another Feature pack and Living Story by then. Otherwise, megaservers may not be enough…
[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/rym144
Just a reminder: in a little more than a week, Blizzard is going to announce the release date of Warlords of Draenor, together with cinematic (gamescom). There’s a prediction that the expansion itself may hit in less than next 3 months.
I really, really wish that ArenaNet will announce something bigger than another Feature pack and Living Story by then. Otherwise, megaservers may not be enough…
OMG we are all DOOOOMMed. Sorry
Its still NCSoft that decides where to spend the manpower. And its obvious that its not being spent on GW2.
No it isn’t.
It is NCSoft that decides where to put money. Sure they can tell ArenaNet that they must put all their 300 employees at this specific issues or else they will lose their funding, but they can’t order ArenaNet employees to work on non-ArenaNet projects. They are hired by ArenaNet, not NCSoft.
It doesnt really matter what other thing they’re working on, the game I mentioned was just an example. Point is, it’s not GW2 or we would have heard something by now.
Your making things up to fit the views you have at this point.
That goes for everything everyone sais about everything minus official announcements by anet.
It’s just an assumption, but there obviously are reasons which lead to making that assumption.
But your making a BIG leap and not even trying to justify why your making that leap. Its the same level of logic of “If i have this pin and there are no tigers in the room then this pin must be keeping the tigers away and or out of this room.” Do you have any thing backing up what your saying?
Not seeing anything from the other 300 developers for 2 years, despite having a working content pipeline is what i based what i said on. If that is not a valid observation in your book then you can ignore me.
What do you watch them go to work or something and not seen them or are you watching there houses and no one come in or out for 2 years (you may want to call the cops if that true) beyond that you have no ideal what your talking about and have no way to back up any thing your saying. If any thing you would think they are “Working” that why they are not saying any thing to your seemingly godly post that cant be ignored.
In what way does my comment imply any of that..
By “Not seeing anything from the other 300 developers for 2 years” I mean there haven’t been any major announcements other than living world (which is said to be done by 25 man).
Its still NCSoft that decides where to spend the manpower. And its obvious that its not being spent on GW2.
No it isn’t.
It is NCSoft that decides where to put money. Sure they can tell ArenaNet that they must put all their 300 employees at this specific issues or else they will lose their funding, but they can’t order ArenaNet employees to work on non-ArenaNet projects. They are hired by ArenaNet, not NCSoft.
It doesnt really matter what other thing they’re working on, the game I mentioned was just an example. Point is, it’s not GW2 or we would have heard something by now.
Your making things up to fit the views you have at this point.
That goes for everything everyone sais about everything minus official announcements by anet.
It’s just an assumption, but there obviously are reasons which lead to making that assumption.
But your making a BIG leap and not even trying to justify why your making that leap. Its the same level of logic of “If i have this pin and there are no tigers in the room then this pin must be keeping the tigers away and or out of this room.” Do you have any thing backing up what your saying?
Not seeing anything from the other 300 developers for 2 years, despite having a working content pipeline is what i based what i said on. If that is not a valid observation in your book then you can ignore me.
What do you watch them go to work or something and not seen them or are you watching there houses and no one come in or out for 2 years (you may want to call the cops if that true) beyond that you have no ideal what your talking about and have no way to back up any thing your saying. If any thing you would think they are “Working” that why they are not saying any thing to your seemingly godly post that cant be ignored.
In what way does my comment imply any of that..
By “Not seeing anything from the other 300 developers for 2 years” I mean there haven’t been any major announcements other than living world (which is said to be done by 25 man).
So your conclusion is that these other 275 people don’t work at the game, because they haven’t announced that they work on anything. Now that’s some funny logic.
The Knights Temple [TKT] — Aurora Glade
Just a reminder: in a little more than a week, Blizzard is going to announce the release date of Warlords of Draenor, together with cinematic (gamescom). There’s a prediction that the expansion itself may hit in less than next 3 months.
I really, really wish that ArenaNet will announce something bigger than another Feature pack and Living Story by then. Otherwise, megaservers may not be enough…
OMG we are all DOOOOMMed. Sorry
No, we’re not doomed. People who play GW2 probably won’t leave.
But MMO market has some specification. I’ll tell you how it works:
1. Blizzard makes a huge event, announcing new stage of their game development, showing off stuff, talking about it. It’s shiny, it’s major, it’s interesting.
2. Now, in the worst scenario, there’s ANet’s stage. You come to this place and you see them talking about small steps or Living Story or some QoL changes.
If I wasn’t playing this game, or if I left some time ago, I wouldn’t even bother.
Nothing big to show off=game’s dead. That’s the mentality of many MMO players.
They really like to see how the game progresses in couple minutes. Then be or be not impressed and walk over to next stage.
There will be many games and you have to attract the customer in a minute, not an hour. That’s how our present world and commercials work.
[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/rym144
Its still NCSoft that decides where to spend the manpower. And its obvious that its not being spent on GW2.
No it isn’t.
It is NCSoft that decides where to put money. Sure they can tell ArenaNet that they must put all their 300 employees at this specific issues or else they will lose their funding, but they can’t order ArenaNet employees to work on non-ArenaNet projects. They are hired by ArenaNet, not NCSoft.
It doesnt really matter what other thing they’re working on, the game I mentioned was just an example. Point is, it’s not GW2 or we would have heard something by now.
Your making things up to fit the views you have at this point.
That goes for everything everyone sais about everything minus official announcements by anet.
It’s just an assumption, but there obviously are reasons which lead to making that assumption.
But your making a BIG leap and not even trying to justify why your making that leap. Its the same level of logic of “If i have this pin and there are no tigers in the room then this pin must be keeping the tigers away and or out of this room.” Do you have any thing backing up what your saying?
Not seeing anything from the other 300 developers for 2 years, despite having a working content pipeline is what i based what i said on. If that is not a valid observation in your book then you can ignore me.
What do you watch them go to work or something and not seen them or are you watching there houses and no one come in or out for 2 years (you may want to call the cops if that true) beyond that you have no ideal what your talking about and have no way to back up any thing your saying. If any thing you would think they are “Working” that why they are not saying any thing to your seemingly godly post that cant be ignored.
In what way does my comment imply any of that..
By “Not seeing anything from the other 300 developers for 2 years” I mean there haven’t been any major announcements other than living world (which is said to be done by 25 man).
So your conclusion is that these other 275 people don’t work at the game, because they haven’t announced that they work on anything. Now that’s some funny logic.
Yes pretty much, 2 years is an awkward long time.
Prophecies: April 28 2005
Factions: April 28 2006
Nightfall: October 27 2006
EotN: August 31 2007
And each of those were announced like a month before release atleast iirc.
2 years isnt that long for development of a new game, but for an expansion of an existing game using an existing engine / content pipeline it is.
Its still NCSoft that decides where to spend the manpower. And its obvious that its not being spent on GW2.
No it isn’t.
It is NCSoft that decides where to put money. Sure they can tell ArenaNet that they must put all their 300 employees at this specific issues or else they will lose their funding, but they can’t order ArenaNet employees to work on non-ArenaNet projects. They are hired by ArenaNet, not NCSoft.
It doesnt really matter what other thing they’re working on, the game I mentioned was just an example. Point is, it’s not GW2 or we would have heard something by now.
Your making things up to fit the views you have at this point.
That goes for everything everyone sais about everything minus official announcements by anet.
It’s just an assumption, but there obviously are reasons which lead to making that assumption.
But your making a BIG leap and not even trying to justify why your making that leap. Its the same level of logic of “If i have this pin and there are no tigers in the room then this pin must be keeping the tigers away and or out of this room.” Do you have any thing backing up what your saying?
Not seeing anything from the other 300 developers for 2 years, despite having a working content pipeline is what i based what i said on. If that is not a valid observation in your book then you can ignore me.
What do you watch them go to work or something and not seen them or are you watching there houses and no one come in or out for 2 years (you may want to call the cops if that true) beyond that you have no ideal what your talking about and have no way to back up any thing your saying. If any thing you would think they are “Working” that why they are not saying any thing to your seemingly godly post that cant be ignored.
In what way does my comment imply any of that..
By “Not seeing anything from the other 300 developers for 2 years” I mean there haven’t been any major announcements other than living world (which is said to be done by 25 man).
You seem to know what they are doing at least what they are not doing and no one can tell you what they are doing or at least you do not believe them so you MUST have some type of insider info that your going on OR your making things up.
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA
Just a reminder: in a little more than a week, Blizzard is going to announce the release date of Warlords of Draenor, together with cinematic (gamescom). There’s a prediction that the expansion itself may hit in less than next 3 months.
I really, really wish that ArenaNet will announce something bigger than another Feature pack and Living Story by then. Otherwise, megaservers may not be enough…
OMG we are all DOOOOMMed. Sorry
No, we’re not doomed. People who play GW2 probably won’t leave.
But MMO market has some specification. I’ll tell you how it works:
1. Blizzard makes a huge event, announcing new stage of their game development, showing off stuff, talking about it. It’s shiny, it’s major, it’s interesting.
2. Now, in the worst scenario, there’s ANet’s stage. You come to this place and you see them talking about small steps or Living Story or some QoL changes.
If I wasn’t playing this game, or if I left some time ago, I wouldn’t even bother.Nothing big to show off=game’s dead. That’s the mentality of many MMO players.
They really like to see how the game progresses in couple minutes. Then be or be not impressed and walk over to next stage.There will be many games and you have to attract the customer in a minute, not an hour. That’s how our present world and commercials work.
OK, blizzard and wow is not going to pick up anyone at all who does not already have a good idea of what the game is going to offer. They are fighting to get back the five or so million subs they have lost from peak, and if they pull in a few fresh faces so much the better. GW 2 razzle dazzle is 100% aimed at those tired masses that have slipped through the wow clone wars. It has been a soft sell strategy for a long time. The next quarterly report will give an indication of whether this has worked.
It’s been a while since they’ve announced anything but living story. Hope you guys announce something soon because if not your doing a great blizzard impression.
We’re all waiting for an expansion. It’s either this or they are letting the game die slowly to focus on the next one. The living Story doesn’t provide enough content and it is not challenging : We get a little story that last 2 hours, can be done easily and then we log off for 2 weeks.
Its still NCSoft that decides where to spend the manpower. And its obvious that its not being spent on GW2.
No it isn’t.
It is NCSoft that decides where to put money. Sure they can tell ArenaNet that they must put all their 300 employees at this specific issues or else they will lose their funding, but they can’t order ArenaNet employees to work on non-ArenaNet projects. They are hired by ArenaNet, not NCSoft.
It doesnt really matter what other thing they’re working on, the game I mentioned was just an example. Point is, it’s not GW2 or we would have heard something by now.
Your making things up to fit the views you have at this point.
That goes for everything everyone sais about everything minus official announcements by anet.
It’s just an assumption, but there obviously are reasons which lead to making that assumption.
But your making a BIG leap and not even trying to justify why your making that leap. Its the same level of logic of “If i have this pin and there are no tigers in the room then this pin must be keeping the tigers away and or out of this room.” Do you have any thing backing up what your saying?
Not seeing anything from the other 300 developers for 2 years, despite having a working content pipeline is what i based what i said on. If that is not a valid observation in your book then you can ignore me.
What do you watch them go to work or something and not seen them or are you watching there houses and no one come in or out for 2 years (you may want to call the cops if that true) beyond that you have no ideal what your talking about and have no way to back up any thing your saying. If any thing you would think they are “Working” that why they are not saying any thing to your seemingly godly post that cant be ignored.
In what way does my comment imply any of that..
By “Not seeing anything from the other 300 developers for 2 years” I mean there haven’t been any major announcements other than living world (which is said to be done by 25 man).
You seem to know what they are doing at least what they are not doing and no one can tell you what they are doing or at least you do not believe them so you MUST have some type of insider info that your going on OR your making things up.
Yeah direct the entire response at me personally ignoring arguments.. reasoning doesn’t work on forums either way…
Its still NCSoft that decides where to spend the manpower. And its obvious that its not being spent on GW2.
No it isn’t.
It is NCSoft that decides where to put money. Sure they can tell ArenaNet that they must put all their 300 employees at this specific issues or else they will lose their funding, but they can’t order ArenaNet employees to work on non-ArenaNet projects. They are hired by ArenaNet, not NCSoft.
It doesnt really matter what other thing they’re working on, the game I mentioned was just an example. Point is, it’s not GW2 or we would have heard something by now.
Your making things up to fit the views you have at this point.
That goes for everything everyone sais about everything minus official announcements by anet.
It’s just an assumption, but there obviously are reasons which lead to making that assumption.
But your making a BIG leap and not even trying to justify why your making that leap. Its the same level of logic of “If i have this pin and there are no tigers in the room then this pin must be keeping the tigers away and or out of this room.” Do you have any thing backing up what your saying?
Not seeing anything from the other 300 developers for 2 years, despite having a working content pipeline is what i based what i said on. If that is not a valid observation in your book then you can ignore me.
What do you watch them go to work or something and not seen them or are you watching there houses and no one come in or out for 2 years (you may want to call the cops if that true) beyond that you have no ideal what your talking about and have no way to back up any thing your saying. If any thing you would think they are “Working” that why they are not saying any thing to your seemingly godly post that cant be ignored.
In what way does my comment imply any of that..
By “Not seeing anything from the other 300 developers for 2 years” I mean there haven’t been any major announcements other than living world (which is said to be done by 25 man).
So your conclusion is that these other 275 people don’t work at the game, because they haven’t announced that they work on anything. Now that’s some funny logic.
Yes pretty much, 2 years is an awkward long time.
Prophecies: April 28 2005
Factions: April 28 2006
Nightfall: October 27 2006
EotN: August 31 2007And each of those were announced like a month before release atleast iirc.
2 years isnt that long for development of a new game, but for an expansion of an existing game using an existing engine / content pipeline it is.
You should realize two things here. First: Gw and Gw2 are not exactly the same games, the first is a CORPG and the second a proper MMO. All the content out of towns and outpost were instanced and pretty linear in GW, it was actually somewhat easier to create and there were less things that could break or mess things up. In Gw2, with all the open work content, there are a lot more things that could go wrong and take more time. Heck, for some people they should even take more things to release things, because of bugs, sloppy story telling, etc etc. But let’s not go that (boring) way again. Now, I understand that this isn’t an all explanatory point, but that brings me to point two.
Even without announcements for anything, doesn’t mean those other 275 people aren’t working on something. It’s (in my humble opinion) more likely that they are working on something (big), but there were just no announcements so far. I can think of some reasons why they keep quiet.
The Knights Temple [TKT] — Aurora Glade
Well, cant blame anet for not announcing a thing anymore.
Because whenever something will not turn out exactly as they say players will kitten about it for years.
“In the manifesto you said..”
“But back then you promised precursor crafting will be..”
Full melee Ranger since August 2012
I think something big is coming.
Something has to be coming.
Right?
Just a reminder: in a little more than a week, Blizzard is going to announce the release date of Warlords of Draenor, together with cinematic (gamescom). There’s a prediction that the expansion itself may hit in less than next 3 months.
I really, really wish that ArenaNet will announce something bigger than another Feature pack and Living Story by then. Otherwise, megaservers may not be enough…
OMG we are all DOOOOMMed. Sorry
Hasn’t the game already been killed by WoW 2.0 in the last 2 months ?
So who cares about WoW 1.6 ..
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.
Its still NCSoft that decides where to spend the manpower. And its obvious that its not being spent on GW2.
No it isn’t.
It is NCSoft that decides where to put money. Sure they can tell ArenaNet that they must put all their 300 employees at this specific issues or else they will lose their funding, but they can’t order ArenaNet employees to work on non-ArenaNet projects. They are hired by ArenaNet, not NCSoft.
I imagine Anet is given a budget by NCSoft and they decide internally how to spend it. As far as Anet staff working for Carbine, I don’t see it. Maybe unofficially they help out each other with with some things, but working for them, I don’t think so.