Guild Wars 2

I know this thread has probably been written a thousand times over, but I believe Black Lion Weapons are still a problem for the more ‘casual’ gamers that aren’t loaded enough to spend ridiculous amounts of money for these weapons.

I consider myself among the more casual players of this game and I’m not one for spending a lot of real money on in-game items. I, like a fair amount of others, have bought some bank tabs and some extra materials storage space as well as character slots. These all improve the quality of life in the game. But I completely refuse to pay for BL Keys for the chests only to have a chance at scraps and a lesser chance of a full ticket. I also don’t play anywhere near enough to be able to afford the incredibly steep coins to gem exchange rates.

So having sat on this for a while I can only think of one complete solution, continue to offer these weapons for the tickets in chests and have it remain as the easy way to get these weapons. But, as the alternative for casual players have the tickets be some kind of long term reward for playing the game in some way. I.e getting 1 ticket for completing the monthly achievements. Or as an alternative offer some way to gain them in the mystic forge for some kind of recipe, Or make them a long term crafting goal. There needs to be some alternative way that doesn’t involve some incredible level of pure luck or heaps of real world money/ Investing way more time that is actually possible for the ‘casual’ gamer.

Just like everyone else I appreciate that these weapons are kind of exclusive. However, at the moment I feel as if they are completely out of my reach and probably a high proportion of the rest of the games population.

I really love this game and have since GW:Prophecies but I just can’t take not being able to acquire some of the best skins ANet have designed so far because they not only reside behind a paywall but they also are part of one big (highly outrageous) game of RND. This doesn’t stop me from playing but It may give me a bigger boost in playing more…

Thoughts… there has to be a better way that doesn’t ruin the business model.

If you are a casual gamer, why do you want a prestige skin that doesn’t offer any advantage?
Also, you can use in game gold to buy gems, so save the gold you earn and then trade it.
Another thing is key farm, you get keys doing the lvl 10 Personal Story, there are many updated videos and guides about that.
GW2 is very casual friendly, but the game doesn’t need to be 100% casual focused.

PS: If you are a casual you probably have a job of something, then buy gems is even more accessible for most casuals.

jaymayxd.8190:

I know this thread has probably been written a thousand times over, but I believe Black Lion Weapons are still a problem for the more ‘casual’ gamers that aren’t loaded enough to spend ridiculous amounts of money for these weapons.

I consider myself among the more casual players of this game and I’m not one for spending a lot of real money on in-game items. I, like a fair amount of others, have bought some bank tabs and some extra materials storage space as well as character slots. These all improve the quality of life in the game. But I completely refuse to pay for BL Keys for the chests only to have a chance at scraps and a lesser chance of a full ticket. I also don’t play anywhere near enough to be able to afford the incredibly steep coins to gem exchange rates.

So having sat on this for a while I can only think of one complete solution, continue to offer these weapons for the tickets in chests and have it remain as the easy way to get these weapons. But, as the alternative for casual players have the tickets be some kind of long term reward for playing the game in some way. I.e getting 1 ticket for completing the monthly achievements. Or as an alternative offer some way to gain them in the mystic forge for some kind of recipe, Or make them a long term crafting goal. There needs to be some alternative way that doesn’t involve some incredible level of pure luck or heaps of real world money/ Investing way more time that is actually possible for the ‘casual’ gamer.

Just like everyone else I appreciate that these weapons are kind of exclusive. However, at the moment I feel as if they are completely out of my reach and probably a high proportion of the rest of the games population.

I really love this game and have since GW:Prophecies but I just can’t take not being able to acquire some of the best skins ANet have designed so far because they not only reside behind a paywall but they also are part of one big (highly outrageous) game of RND. This doesn’t stop me from playing but It may give me a bigger boost in playing more…

Thoughts… there has to be a better way that doesn’t ruin the business model.

The best way for a person in your situation is to buy the skin for gold in the BLTC when they only cost 1 ticket per weapon. Sure, it might cost you 60g or so, but if you really want the weapon it is well worth it. You can also use it as a money making system for future weapons. You buy 2-3 of them and hold on to them until they cost 5 tickets each and supply on them has gone down a bit. After a while, it is easy to get between 100-300g for a skin that you have saved. Then you can use the profit to buy other skins you like in the future.

I think Black Lion weapons are fine as they are. For the casual players, you can get access to a couple of black lion skins over the course of the game. You get keys at several points during the personal story, enough that (statistically) you should be able to get one BL skin per character by the time you get them to the end of the Personal Story.

For a casual player, I think that’s fair. The skins are rare, they take a lot of effort (or a lot of money) to get them. It’s something that the super-dedicated people can get easily, but casual players still have access to a couple of pieces for free.

If you are just interested in getting 1 or 2 of those skin, spend $10 on gems and convert it to gold would solve your problem.

If you intend to collect a “whole” bunch of them, you probably have to spend a lot of real or in game gold…

My suggestion is just pick a few of the really cool looking skins.

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

I think Black Lion weapons are fine as they are. For the casual players, you can get access to a couple of black lion skins over the course of the game. You get keys at several points during the personal story, enough that (statistically) you should be able to get one BL skin per character by the time you get them to the end of the Personal Story.

I can’t say I agree with that. I have 6 level 80 characters and have gotten exactly 0 Black Lion tickets from the small handful of keys I’ve gotten from their personal stories. Heck, I’ve never so much as gotten a scrap. Mind you, I haven’t actually completed the stories on any of them, but most are up to the level 70 steps or beyond, so unless you get a huge dump of keys at the end I doubt I’d suddenly get lucky from whatever you get from the last.

That said, I do have around 15 total Black Lion skins distributed amongst my various characters. But those were all gotten via purchase from the TP. And who knows how that’ll go in the future. With key farming greatly diminished in efficiency and people buying up more skins for collections, the prices of the skins might rise quite a bit even during their 1-ticket periods. Highest I’ve ever paid for a BL skin was 70g for one of the Halloween skins last year (which for some reason never really dropped down like most sets do, the rest I picked up for 35-50g), and I wouldn’t be surprised if that became the “average” price for all BLTC skins in the future.

I’m a causal player – when the Winter’s Day weapons skins first came out, I thought long and hard before I parted with my gold and converted them to gems to buy the skin. I did not have that much gold and this was a real splurge for my cheap self. GOLD. Not real money.

I completely disagree with your suggestions. I LOVE that my skin is not so common. I regularly get whispers asking about it. If a ticket were rewarded at the end of each monthly, there would be tons of these skins around.

I suggest doing things to earn you gold if there is a specific skin you want. If you want to try your luck, you can convert the gold to gems and buy keys. I have gotten 3 black lion skins from tickets only (the 4th, as I said above, I was able to get with gems). This isn’t an impossible or super lucky thing. I have never bought keys nor did I spend crazy gold to get them off the TP. And to prove how I’m not that lucky, I’ve been playing since release and have yet to get a precursor drop.

Just as fyi, they increased the chances for scraps and tickets in the last patch.

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

I think Black Lion weapons are fine as they are. For the casual players, you can get access to a couple of black lion skins over the course of the game. You get keys at several points during the personal story, enough that (statistically) you should be able to get one BL skin per character by the time you get them to the end of the Personal Story.

For a casual player, I think that’s fair. The skins are rare, they take a lot of effort (or a lot of money) to get them. It’s something that the super-dedicated people can get easily, but casual players still have access to a couple of pieces for free.

I have in total received around 20 keys, and I got 3 scraps, not a single ticket. Perhaps I am extremely unlucky, but I don’t think the chances of getting a ticket are high enough for casuals or semi-casuals to have any hope of getting a skin.

Belzebu.3912:

If you are a casual gamer, why do you want a prestige skin that doesn’t offer any advantage?
Also, you can use in game gold to buy gems, so save the gold you earn and then trade it.
Another thing is key farm, you get keys doing the lvl 10 Personal Story, there are many updated videos and guides about that.
GW2 is very casual friendly, but the game doesn’t need to be 100% casual focused.

PS: If you are a casual you probably have a job of something, then buy gems is even more accessible for most casuals.

Just to clarify, you get first black lion key at lvl 20 storyline after feature pack.

This is after you have done 11 hearts and gathering to get you to the level 10 you need to be, to be able to access personal story. You are talking 70 minutes plus to do this.

Not seen any guides for this new keyfarm yet. But very time consuming for a casual gamer in my opinion.

HenleyLegoMan.4987:

Not seen any guides for this new keyfarm yet. But very time consuming for a casual gamer in my opinion.

Updated guide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7JMF2d8V8o

Yes, for a casual and for a hardcore it is very time consuming, the difference is that a hardcore can farm about 40 hours in a week and a casual will take months to do the same.

HenleyLegoMan.4987:

Just to clarify, you get first black lion key at lvl 20 storyline after feature pack.

No you don’t. It’s still at the last quest in the Level 10 chain, the exact same quest you would get it from pre-patch. :-|

As for your comment about current keyfarming, the method since the patch has been, “Spend the 2G on getting your Cooking skill high enough to get you to level 10, then do the quests.” By the estimations of the keyfarmers, it takes about the same amount of time (more or less), and you will recoup close to the 2G from everything you get from the story quests, so it all works out about the same as pre-patch. The method has just changed a bit, that’s all.

Belzebu.3912:

If you are a casual gamer, why do you want a prestige skin that doesn’t offer any advantage?

Did you seriously just claim these were prestige items? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Cost can set something up as a prestige item, even I would consider a Maserati a prestige item, but these items aren’t barred by cost nearly as much as they are barred by RNG. They’re more like a draw for either menial 1980s commutermobile or a Maserati that you have a chance of getting if you pay a random amount of money for it.

Sweetblue Huntress.9856:

I’m a causal player – when the Winter’s Day weapons skins first came out, I thought long and hard before I parted with my gold and converted them to gems to buy the skin. I did not have that much gold and this was a real splurge for my cheap self. GOLD. Not real money.

The wintersday weapons weren’t RNG, how would you feel if you had dropped all of that and got none of the weapons you paid for? Because that is the result of the BL skins the majority of the time.

I think a casual players should manage 1 or 2 of those skins just fine. those skins cost 50-100 gold.

Personally, I only unlocked the Halloween greatsword, just pick a few of the more pretty ones.

Getting a bunch of them is the problem. Those are for the hardcore.

I hear your frustration but I doubt that any of the things you suggested will become reality. The best thing you can do in order to get the skins is to save up some gold and buy them when they first come out at 1 ticket each. You can you get them for 40-50g in that period, which is really a whole lot better than the price once they’re moved to costing 5 tickets.

Sometimes you just have to decide where to spend your in game money. Personally, I was saving up to make a legendary a long time ago, then the BL weapons came out that were from TA (i.e. bloodroot of dreams), and I wanted them so badly that I sold all the stuff I had accumulated and bought 6 of the skins off the TP. I never regreted it.

You could also decide to take a small amount of cash each payday and buy gems and convert to gold. Even $10 per payday will add up over a couple months, and voila! you will have some nice skins.

It’s all about choices. However, I would say you’re better off (by a long shot) to buy the skins rather than keys. But key farming is an option if you want to try your luck.

In light of the fact that Black Lion Weapon Skins now have Collections – and the fact that I wanted to bring some hard numbers to this discussion – the following is what you are looking at spending in terms of item value if you buy every BL Weapon.

Some caveats first: The numbers were taken from current TP prices (e.g. what price each item is being sold for – you could probably get somewhat lower with buy orders). Also, I am not an accountant and may have made some mistakes in adding up the numbers, so take it as an estimate more than anything.

The total from all of the sets is ~47,077 gold. That number is subject to market fluctuation of course. I’ll let the numbers speak for themselves.

Aetherized set:

Axe – 344g
Dagger – 387g
Mace – 198g
Pistol – 399g
Scepter – 349g
Sword – 389g
Focus – 398g
Shield – 380g
Torch – 299g
Warhorn – 350g
Greatsword – 396g
Hammer – 365g
Longbow – 376g
Rifle – 399g
Short Bow – 399g
Staff – 397g
Harpoon Gun – N/A (none listed)
Spear – 438g
Trident – 299g

total == 6553g

Chaos set:

Axe – 94g
Dagger – 90g
Mace – 91g
Pistol – 97g
Scepter – 83g
Sword – 90g
Focus – 95g
Shield – 85g
Torch – 95g
Warhorn – 95g
Greatsword – 79g
Hammer – 92g
Longbow – 95g
Rifle – 85g
Short Bow – 94g
Staff – 90g
Harpoon Gun – 95g
Spear – 94g
Trident – 96g

total == 1735g

Dragon’s Jade:

Axe – 69g
Dagger – 78g
Mace – 90g
Pistol – 89g
Scepter – 95g
Sword – 70g
Focus – 100g
Shield – 60g
Torch – 95g
Warhorn – 97g
Greatsword – 69g
Hammer – 90g
Longbow – 87g
Rifle – 85g
Short Bow – 99g
Staff – 72g

total == 1345g

Dreamthistle:

Axe – 330g
Dagger – 388g
Mace – 390g
Pistol – 395g
Scepter – 394g
Sword – 440g
Focus – 378g
Shield – 348g
Torch – 329g
Warhorn – 429g
Greatsword – 380g
Hammer – 399g
Longbow – 364g
Rifle – 199g
Short Bow – 390g
Staff – 329g
Harpoon Gun – N/A (none listed)
Spear – N/A (none listed)
Trident – 389g

total == 6271g

Fused:

Axe – 418g
Dagger – 444g
Mace – 450g
Pistol – 489g
Scepter – N/A (none listed)
Sword – 420g
Focus – 999g
Shield – 399g
Torch – 349g
Warhorn – 420g
Greatsword – 449g
Hammer – 450g
Longbow – 440g
Rifle – 450g
Short Bow – 449g
Staff – N/A (none listed)

total == 6626

Ley Line:

Axe – 93g
Dagger – 98g
Mace – 73g
Pistol – 82g
Scepter – 85g
Sword – 82g
Focus – 99g
Shield – 123g
Torch – 119g
Warhorn – 117g
Greatsword – 87g
Hammer – 92g
Longbow – 119g
Rifle – 98g
Short Bow – 119g
Staff – 78g

total == 1564

Lovestruck:

Axe – 87g
Dagger – 98g
Mace – 156g
Pistol – 115g
Scepter – 158g
Sword – 114g
Focus – 179g
Shield – 58g
Torch – 225g
Warhorn – 279g
Greatsword – 75g
Hammer – 72g
Longbow – 99g
Rifle – 164g
Short Bow – 100g
Staff – 79g

total == 2058

Phoenix:

Axe – 110g
Dagger – 99g
Mace – 105g
Pistol – 136g
Scepter – 100g
Sword – 95g
Focus – 108g
Shield – 76g
Torch – 78g
Warhorn – 156g
Greatsword – 95g
Hammer – 150g
Longbow – 195g
Rifle – 125g
Short Bow – 135g
Staff – 84g

total == 1847

Sclerite:

Axe – 250g
Dagger – 250g
Mace – 289g
Pistol – 214g
Scepter – 269g
Sword – 299g
Focus – 198g
Shield – 169g
Torch – 199g
Warhorn – 399g
Greatsword – 253g
Hammer – 224g
Longbow – 229g
Rifle – 200g
Short Bow – 179g
Staff – 210g

total == 3831

Tormented:

Axe – 149g
Dagger – 179g
Mace – 350g
Pistol – 169g
Scepter – 245g
Sword – 113g
Focus – 139g
Shield – 84g
Torch – 264g
Warhorn – 174g
Greatsword – 96g
Hammer – 130g
Longbow – 168g
Rifle – 200g
Short Bow – 171g
Staff – 127g
Harpoon Gun – 183g
Spear – 249g
Trident – 248g

total == 3438

Wintersday:

Axe – 500g
Dagger – 999g
Pistol – 566g
Sword – 355g
Shield – 400g
Greatsword – 489g
Hammer – 450g
Longbow – 999g
Short Bow – 555g
Staff – 699g

total == 6012

Zodiac:

Axe – 285g
Dagger – 399g
Mace – 333g
Pistol – 335g
Scepter – 999g
Sword – N/A (none listed)
Focus – 399g
Shield – 309g
Torch – 424g
Warhorn – N/A (none listed)
Greatsword – 349g
Hammer – 420g
Longbow – 381g
Rifle – 339g
Short Bow – 299g
Staff – 526g

total == 5797

Yes, well I knew as soon as I heard about these being “collections” that the prices would skyrocket. For instance, the Sclerite skins were really very cheap not so long ago, as were the Dragon’s Jade skins (I know I picked up several at about 45g each). The Chaos skins, which are still 1 ticket each (or were yesterday), were selling at about 40-50g each before the collections. I see those have also climbed. BEFORE the collections update, 1 ticket weapons were reasonable. Now people want to make the most gold they can from collectors. To be expected, but again, not knowing what ANet is planning on leaves some people scrambling and some sitting on a ton of “equity” – myself included, as I have about 12 skins sitting in my bank, awaiting appreciation – because, well, I have figured out how this all works now.

Some math fun I posted in another thread about BL skin costs:

Based off the results posted by the player that farmed 1,000 BL keys, the average ticket drop rate was 1 per ~35 chests. It would take roughly 367.50 gold worth of gem conversions (at the current avg rate 12.50 gold/100gems), if buying keys in stacks of 25 when they’re not on sale, for every 1 ticket.

In U.S. dollars the equivalent would be spending just about $36.75 per ticket when buying gems.

Multiply that by 5 for any weapon skin that isn’t on introductory prices, and you get roughly 1,837.50 gold/$183.75 per weapon skin. The price would be even higher for fused skins which cost 7 tickets.

They claim the drop rate has been increased with the most recent patch. Let’s be VERY generous and say they doubled the rate, which is very unlikely or they probably would’ve used the world “doubled” rather than “increased”, but that would still equate to 918.75 gold/$91.88 for every 5 ticket weapon skin.

If you were the luckiest person alive and received a full ticket out of every single chest you opened, the absolute best case scenario is $5.25 per 5 ticket weapon skin, or 52.50 gold in gem exchanges.

If you think the prices are bad now, given these numbers, you can probably expect them to at least double once current supply on the rarest skins are depleted.

In my opinion, all Black Lion Weapons should cost 5 scraps per account bound version of each skin, and 2 full tickets maximum for a trade-able version. At the current drop rates/ticket costs you can expect to pay more for each skin than the entire retail cost of the game at launch.

Conncept.7638:

Belzebu.3912:

If you are a casual gamer, why do you want a prestige skin that doesn’t offer any advantage?

Did you seriously just claim these were prestige items? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Cost can set something up as a prestige item, even I would consider a Maserati a prestige item, but these items aren’t barred by cost nearly as much as they are barred by RNG. They’re more like a draw for either menial 1980s commutermobile or a Maserati that you have a chance of getting if you pay a random amount of money for it.

Expensive items (BL skin or the Maserati) are prestigious items, both can be acquired by RNG (there could be a promotion that gives a Maserati) and that wouldn’t make it any less prestigious.
The only difference is that the BL skin is “built” from RNG and then sold for a high price (offer/demand), while the car is built in small numbers with expensive material and then added a even higher profit margin based only on the prestige.

IMO fractal skins and legendaries for example are more prestigious, but BL skins also are.

I have to disagree with the OP here. These are supposed to be special items and therefore should not be easily obtained. I understand that it takes time to build up coin to convert to gems if you want to acquire the item in game, but it should. One of its jobs is to remove excess coin from the game and to me it seems to do a good job about that. On the other hand I can’t see an issue with ArenaNet using it as way to increase revenue since its on a voluntary basis if people want to buy keys. There is a risk/time/reward structure in place that seems balanced, I would change that.

Labjax.2465:

In light of the fact that Black Lion Weapon Skins now have Collections – and the fact that I wanted to bring some hard numbers to this discussion – the following is what you are looking at spending in terms of item value if you buy every BL Weapon.

Some caveats first: The numbers were taken from current TP prices (e.g. what price each item is being sold for – you could probably get somewhat lower with buy orders).

Appreciate the numbers, but on a side not there is a pretty large spread between the current sell and the current buy bids. Not saying that it would be cheap for anyone to outright buy, but some of the differences I have seen are in the 50% range.

For those defending this category, why don’t we ask them to introduce a Legendary collection, where you’re tasked to obtain all 21 Legendary weapons. That would be fun, right? It’s even things you earn in-game!

No? Not fun? Oh, you don’t want to be put through the incredible task that would become, both through getting so many characters through World Completion, and the extensive cost of everything involved, or perhaps the excessive time sink it’d be to obtain materials, Karma, Skill Points, Badges and otherwise Gold needed? Perhaps you don’t actually like half the weapons, just a few. But so what? It doesn’t matter if you can’t even use all weapons on a single profession, right? It’s the collection that counts!

I think we should get a Legendary collection category. It’d be just as fun and fair as the Black Lion one. Let’s get their attention so they’ll go do that for you collectors that loves this Black Lion category. (Note: I have 8 legendaries, I can continue finishing a collection just fine, but I don’t want all.. so yeah. I wouldn’t want to see that as a collection.)

Yes, I also think that a Legendary Collection should exist.
I’m sure a few players would have that already and others would start to pursuit the last legendaries needed for the collection.
Collections are far from be mandatory, if you don’t want to make it, then just don’t.

Belzebu.3912:

Yes, I also think that a Legendary Collection should exist.
I’m sure a few players would have that already and others would start to pursuit the last legendaries needed for the collection.
Collections are far from be mandatory, if you don’t want to make it, then just don’t.

I still have no intention of ever making a Legendary (or at least not any time soon), and even I agree there should be a Legendary Collector achievement set.

Granted, I can’t see many people ever actually completing it (would probably take YEARS of grinding to unlock everything), but it’s still something I see as being a “collection”, so it should be here.

And I will feel sorry for every single poor kitten that actually tries to complete it.

Absconditus.6804:

For those defending this category, why don’t we ask them to introduce a Legendary collection, where you’re tasked to obtain all 18 Legendary weapons. That would be fun, right? It’s even things you earn in-game!

No? Not fun? Oh, you don’t want to be put through the incredible task that would become, both through getting so many characters through World Completion, and the extensive cost of everything involved, or perhaps the excessive time sink it’d be to obtain materials, Karma, Skill Points, Badges and otherwise Gold needed? Perhaps you don’t actually like half the weapons, just a few. But so what? It doesn’t matter if you can’t even use all weapons on a single profession, right? It’s the collection that counts!

I think we should get a Legendary collection category. It’d be just as fun and fair as the Black Lion one. Let’s get their attention so they’ll go do that for you collectors that loves this Black Lion category. (Note: I have 8 legendaries, I can continue finishing a collection just fine, but I don’t want all.. so yeah. I wouldn’t want to see that as a collection.)

You do understand that you don’t have to complete any of the collections, right?

Ya, just keep in mind all you’re getting are a FEW chievos and some meaningless title. Don’t go out of your way spending 40000g on this stuff. Play the game and if you get something extra, great! If not, you’re no worse off than you were yesterday.

Not opposed to a Legendary collection. Still wouldn’t support making it easier to make Legendaries even if there was one though either.

TheGrimm.5624:

Appreciate the numbers, but on a side not there is a pretty large spread between the current sell and the current buy bids. Not saying that it would be cheap for anyone to outright buy, but some of the differences I have seen are in the 50% range.

Fair point to make. Which would, unfortunately, still put the cost at around 23,500 gold (and that’s if you get every single one for half the price as I wrote it down).

I mean, concerning what people are saying about the collections, the responses are pretty predictable; “you don’t have to get it, so blah blah blah.” But let’s be honest here: Looking at the numbers for the BL collection, how many people do we actually think are going to try to complete them? You have to go out of your way, paying – in some cases – massive amounts of currency for skins that you will probably never use, just to complete the collection.

I’d imagine maybe 0.1% of the GW2 population is actually going to do it – 1% if I’m being generous.

The problem I have with it is that it’s not an achievement you’re going to progress on just by “playing the game.” Take some of the insane WvW achievements, for example; they are an extreme goal, but at least you progress on the goal by playing WvW. The only way you are going to progress anywhere significant on these achievements is if you have the singular goal to complete the collections.

Otherwise, your average players are just going to do what some people suggested in this thread; buy a skin or two that they really want and leave it at that.

So how much does it matter? Honestly, not a whole lot. But I’m sure they have metrics for seeing how many people bother with these BL collections and they may find that it’s not worth development time putting them together at all.

I can’t call myself a “casual” GW2 player. I’ve spent some cash on the gem store to get some armor set skins, bag and bank slots, but i have never spent real life money on chests, hoping for tickets, as i generally am not a fan of gambling with my hard earned cash for things that hold no value in the real world.

I’ve been playing GW2 for a year now (including a 4 month break), and i got myself 6 Black Lion weapon skins without really paying too much attention to it.
It’s like a little ritual. Every week, i farm 4-5 keys from the lvl 10 personal story step.
Even now, after the changes which made the farm a little bit more time consuming, i managed to get 4 scraps, and buy another Chaos skin.

It’s not that hard, peeps. Take it easy, don’t sweat it and just make a lvl 10 character every now and then. I promise that eventually you will get your favorite skins.

If there was a guaranteed ticket scrap for every chest i bet key sales would skyrocket. Its a shame so much attention is being paid to the gem shop yet they could bring in so much more $$$ by realizing people hate having to gamble with bought gems just for a chance at a cool weapon skin.

I’m a bit tired of the semi-common responses saying “you don’t have to x, y and z”. No, we don’t have to do anything in this game. We don’t have to go level up. We don’t have to socialize. We don’t have to even play. It’s a game. But these collections are still a blemish in the Achievements category for many. I have at least 8 categories unlocked there, not because I want to collect all the weapons, but because I’ve gotten a few. Some seem to have unlocked simply because I’ve gifted these things to people when I didn’t want them myself. Like I’ve written before, I’m at almost 9 legendaries, one for every weapon I can use on my Mesmer, I have no use for these Black Lion “cash-grab” skins.

It’s unreasonable to expect anyone to collect all of them. I am almost hard pressed to believe that anyone even wishes to collect every single weapon skin, of every single set. The ones their main profession can use, sure, that I can understand, but all 16? No, I don’t really see anyone wanting that. If anything, very special cases will want that. Now let’s take me as an example; My long-term goals in this game is to make every Legendary weapon there is. That’s not normal, and I’ll likely never get around to it, but that’s been my goal since launch. That doesn’t mean I want them to put up a collection for it. That’d be horrible! There’s several weapons people hate the skins of, that they have no interest in. Giving them half-complete achievements they can’t in a reasonable way ever finish is not my idea of a good update. The other collections in the Basic and Rare categories are good, these are not. They are also clearly there for one reason, and one reason only. To try push players into spending more money on the horrible Black Lion Chests and their keys. It’s as bad as the GET MORE GEMS on top of the Trading Post. It’s tacky.

Absconditus.6804:

To try push players into spending more money on the horrible Black Lion Chests and their keys.

It is pretty difficult to see it any other way than that, in this instance.

I think someone once mentioned the idea of a collection achievement for collecting any 5 of them or something like that. The idea would be that you don’t have to go get the ones you’ll never use to complete the achieve. I think that’d be much more reasonable and a lot more interesting for your average player.

I hope they bring back old collections back for 1 ticket over time. Its not fair to add achievements for retired sets (Wintersday 2012, Sclerite) or out of season sets.

So there’s an achievement that maybe most people will never complete. So what? What about the player that only plays one toon or maybe only one race…and there are the achievements to collect all the racial armors? The list of achievements I can use as examples is quite the long one.

The argument was made that it’s unreasonable to expect anyone to collect these things…but who is setting that expectation? The achievement can simply be there for those special people who will go out and collect all the weapons (and do all those other way out there achievements).

Conncept.7638:

The wintersday weapons weren’t RNG, how would you feel if you had dropped all of that and got none of the weapons you paid for? Because that is the result of the BL skins the majority of the time.

The point I was trying to make is that you don’t need to spend real cash for those skins. If OP wants BL skins, he can get them with gold.

BL Keys are the least efficient way to get the skins and they always have been. The keys are setup to work exactly like a lotto: the fun is in the anticipation, not the results.

The simplest way to acquire the skins has always been to purchase them from the TP. With the exception of chaos skins, prices have almost always been 50-65g after the first two weeks and often go down for a week or two after the trade-in value increases to 3 or more tickets. Obviously, prices go up eventually, since the supply diminishes while the demand generally remains the same (or sometimes increases).

The cheapest of the skins are always within reach of casual players, although, since they play less, they would have to be a lot more cautious with their spending.

Belzebu.3912:

If you are a casual gamer, why do you want a prestige skin that doesn’t offer any advantage?
Also, you can use in game gold to buy gems, so save the gold you earn and then trade it.
Another thing is key farm, you get keys doing the lvl 10 Personal Story, there are many updated videos and guides about that.
GW2 is very casual friendly, but the game doesn’t need to be 100% casual focused.

PS: If you are a casual you probably have a job of something, then buy gems is even more accessible for most casuals.

“Prestige” skins? More like skins that show how big your wallet is.
And why he wants those skins? Hmm, maybe becasue that’s what this game is all about, skins.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Belzebu.3912:

words…

“Prestige” skins? More like skins that show how big your wallet is.
And why he wants those skins? Hmm, maybe becasue that’s what this game is all about, skins.

Well, “prestige” is a way to call expensive stuff, both in game and in RL.
I’m a system analyst and I have an ok pay check, I would love to have an Aston Martin but guess what, I can’t have it unless I “grind” a lot for it or have lucky with the lottery “RNG” to be able to get it.
The OP wants the Aston Martin even though he has a regular job and w/o the need of lottery. See where I want to go?

Sweetblue Huntress.9856:

So there’s an achievement that maybe most people will never complete. So what? What about the player that only plays one toon or maybe only one race…and there are the achievements to collect all the racial armors? The list of achievements I can use as examples is quite the long one.

The argument was made that it’s unreasonable to expect anyone to collect these things…but who is setting that expectation? The achievement can simply be there for those special people who will go out and collect all the weapons (and do all those other way out there achievements).

Anet set the expectation when they advertised collections as a new feature and then threw in stuff like this.

Sizer.5632:

If there was a guaranteed ticket scrap for every chest i bet key sales would skyrocket. Its a shame so much attention is being paid to the gem shop yet they could bring in so much more $$$ by realizing people hate having to gamble with bought gems just for a chance at a cool weapon skin.

Off topic. Sizer last time I heard from Grulo he said he needed another for a toeeeebulll run.

If I have the wrong person forgive me.

-GrimJester – Choppa

Belzebu.3912:

Well, “prestige” is a way to call expensive stuff, both in game and in RL.
I’m a system analyst and I have an ok pay check, I would love to have an Aston Martin but guess what, I can’t have it unless I “grind” a lot for it or have lucky with the lottery “RNG” to be able to get it.
The OP wants the Aston Martin even though he has a regular job and w/o the need of lottery. See where I want to go?

This isn’t real life. We’re talking about a game.

Belzebu.3912:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Belzebu.3912:

words…

“Prestige” skins? More like skins that show how big your wallet is.
And why he wants those skins? Hmm, maybe becasue that’s what this game is all about, skins.

Well, “prestige” is a way to call expensive stuff, both in game and in RL.
I’m a system analyst and I have an ok pay check, I would love to have an Aston Martin but guess what, I can’t have it unless I “grind” a lot for it or have lucky with the lottery “RNG” to be able to get it.
The OP wants the Aston Martin even though he has a regular job and w/o the need of lottery. See where I want to go?

No. GW2 is a game, not real life. “Prestige” in a game should be rewarded for beating the most challenging parts of the game or by investing much time into the game, not by having a huge wallet.

Money is a shortcut. There shouldn’t be any shortcuts in a good game.
Or, to put it better: Shortcuts are ok, as long as the normal way is no pure grindfest.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Money is a shortcut. There shouldn’t be any shortcuts in a good game.

So, if you want “prestige” skins removed from the cash shop (this seems to be what you’re implying), then what WOULD you have in the cash shop?

There needs to be something. This is still an MMO. This is still something that has constant uptime, constant development costs, and constant paychecks that need signed.

The reason things like this are added to the gem shop is to add something for people to buy, to support the game, which will let them get something they want in the game.

Remove skins from the gem shop, and not only are you removing revenue (meaning people are getting payed less — to a drastic enough extent, people would get fired if the cash influx dropped enough), but you’re also removing the “cool stuff” from people that have more money than time to dedicate to the game. Because that IS a portion of the player base that also needs catered to.

You’re talking about these being “shortcuts”, but I think you’re confusing one shortcut for another. This isn’t some kind of shortcut to making the game easier, this is not pay-to-win gameplay. This is a “shortcut” to get something cool and utterly useless before someone else can get said utterly useless thing.

The alternative, which many MANY other MMOs employ, is to just remove the ability for non-paying players to get this content. Which, very well may be an option. How would that change your stance if Black Lion skins were only able to be got via the gem shop, not grinded out by key farmers?

HRR, I find myself agreeing with quite a lot of things I see you say around here, but on this particular issue, I think you’re off base.

Labjax.2465:

This isn’t real life. We’re talking about a game.

With no parameters to compare everything gets easier to ask.
I would like to get a precursor or legendary as birthday gift.
BL skins for every 2k AP.
Guaranteed ticket scrap in every BL chest.
Also get 1 AP for every hour I’m not logged in the game, so casuals can compete with the hardcore.

Get similar rewards of the “hardcore” players, being casual, doesn’t sound right.

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Money is a shortcut. There shouldn’t be any shortcuts in a good game.

So, if you want “prestige” skins removed from the cash shop (this seems to be what you’re implying), then what WOULD you have in the cash shop?

There needs to be something. This is still an MMO. This is still something that has constant uptime, constant development costs, and constant paychecks that need signed.

The reason things like this are added to the gem shop is to add something for people to buy, to support the game, which will let them get something they want in the game.

Remove skins from the gem shop, and not only are you removing revenue (meaning people are getting payed less — to a drastic enough extent, people would get fired if the cash influx dropped enough), but you’re also removing the “cool stuff” from people that have more money than time to dedicate to the game. Because that IS a portion of the player base that also needs catered to.

1) I don’t want all skins to be removed, but I want an equal spread between skins in the gem shop and skins that are “free”.
2) Skins that are in the gem shop shouldn’t be “unobtainable” through other means.
The current BLC skins are unobtainable by my definition. The only way to get those skins from the chests is to grind for keys, which takes a long time and is very tedious, then you need to have luck to get a ticket scrap or even a complete ticket and then you need to have 7 of those at worst.
3) What I would sell instead? Animations. I always wondered why my warrior, if wielding dual swords, is only using 1 sword. If they would release an animation where my warrior would use both swords for the AA, I would buy that instantly.

Belzebu.3912:

Labjax.2465:

This isn’t real life. We’re talking about a game.

With no parameters to compare everything gets easier to ask.
I would like to get a precursor or legendary as birthday gift.
BL skins for every 2k AP.
Guaranteed ticket scrap in every BL chest.
Also get 1 AP for every hour I’m not logged in the game, so casuals can compete with the hardcore.

Get similar rewards of the “hardcore” players, being casual, doesn’t sound right.

You’re misstating and drawing incorrect conclusions. I don’t want skins to be obtainable easier. I want them to be obtainable through meaningful content and neither through endless grinding, nor only through paying money.

Belzebu.3912:

Labjax.2465:

This isn’t real life. We’re talking about a game.

With no parameters to compare everything gets easier to ask.
I would like to get a precursor or legendary as birthday gift.
BL skins for every 2k AP.
Guaranteed ticket scrap in every BL chest.
Also get 1 AP for every hour I’m not logged in the game, so casuals can compete with the hardcore.

Get similar rewards of the “hardcore” players, being casual, doesn’t sound right.

You’ll keep the field clear of crows with all those straw-men. Not much else.

No one is asking for hand-out BL weapons.

The core arguments being made here are the following (and they are two separate issues):

1) Items being behind a gigantic currency wall, instead of through regular gameplay, does not a “fun” game make.

2) Collections, based on said items, that require you to get every skin in a set, including the ones you don’t want, as part of an advertised feature is questionable.

Let’s stick to what’s actually being argued, alright?

HHR LostProphet.4801:

3) What I would sell instead? Animations. I always wondered why my warrior, if wielding dual swords, is only using 1 sword. If they would release an animation where my warrior would use both swords for the AA, I would buy that instantly.

Animations aren’t really a sustainable business model. That’s not something where they can just pump out a new animation every few weeks indefinitely. Skins, however, are a resource they can continuously implement new variations of.

I would like to point out how much content is ONLY available through gameplay. There are plenty of soulbound skins, titles, and various other items that you can’t just “buy”. But at the same time, the real-money conversion to gold is something that makes a lot more things buyable than might have initially been intended.

However, I don’t think that locking people in such a way (AGAIN, locking things out for people who have more money than time from items that are PURELY COSMETIC) is a good thing. There’s no reason to penalize people from having a lack of time by locking content away from them. In the same regard, there’s no reason to lock people out of content simply because they can’t afford it.

The current system, no matter which you have an excess of, you’re able to get the things you want. If something is normally in-store only and you have excess time? Grind gold and convert it to gems. If something isn’t in the gem store and you have excess money? Buy gems and convert to gold.

There’s no harm to the way the system is now, and I don’t understand why you have such an issue with it. Nothing is truly locked out from anyone, it’s just a matter of how much effort you want to put into the reward. Because, you also have to consider the perspective of the “people with money”. Yes, they have money, so they can buy things easier, but they have to WORK for that money, so they might not want to come and grind for something cosmetic after spending all day at work grinding for real money.

Um.. isn’t this discussion also applicable on legendaries? Massive grind/gigantic currency wall, RNG, Collection achievement…

Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

3) What I would sell instead? Animations. I always wondered why my warrior, if wielding dual swords, is only using 1 sword. If they would release an animation where my warrior would use both swords for the AA, I would buy that instantly.

Animations aren’t really a sustainable business model. That’s not something where they can just pump out a new animation every few weeks indefinitely. Skins, however, are a resource they can continuously implement new variations of.

I would like to point out how much content is ONLY available through gameplay. There are plenty of soulbound skins, titles, and various other items that you can’t just “buy”. But at the same time, the real-money conversion to gold is something that makes a lot more things buyable than might have initially been intended.

However, I don’t think that locking people in such a way (AGAIN, locking things out for people who have more money than time from items that are PURELY COSMETIC) is a good thing. There’s no reason to penalize people from having a lack of time by locking content away from them. In the same regard, there’s no reason to lock people out of content simply because they can’t afford it.

The current system, no matter which you have an excess of, you’re able to get the things you want. If something is normally in-store only and you have excess time? Grind gold and convert it to gems. If something isn’t in the gem store and you have excess money? Buy gems and convert to gold.

There’s no harm to the way the system is now, and I don’t understand why you have such an issue with it. Nothing is truly locked out from anyone, it’s just a matter of how much effort you want to put into the reward. Because, you also have to consider the perspective of the “people with money”. Yes, they have money, so they can buy things easier, but they have to WORK for that money, so they might not want to come and grind for something cosmetic after spending all day at work grinding for real money.

They could add dozen and dozen of different animations. For each weaponcombo, for each class, for each race. They could all sell them separately. If that system has any limits, they wont hit them so soon.

Skins are only cosmetic but they’re also the main driving factor of GW2. It’s all about the look, getting new skins is, beside beating the limited content, the only goal you have.

Almost all new skins since launch got put into the gem shop. There are only a few armor parts, backskins or weapon skins that can be gathered in the game, and most of them were only temporarely aviable. The only consistent updates for skins were in the gem shop.

Ashandar.2570:

Um.. isn’t this discussion also applicable on legendaries? Massive grind/gigantic currency wall, RNG, Collection achievement…

Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

Currently, there is no legendary collection.

I think ppl want alternative ways to get BL skins purely because of the collection, I never read any complain before the update, but it also may be result of the key farm nerf …

Away with ye broken page bug!