Guild Wars 2

Bog Otter also addressing the recent controversy.

Very poor video, he total misses the points why people are upset, and he is pulling numbers out of his kitten , he even says that he doesn’t have figures.

swansea.2453:

Very poor video, he total misses the points why people are upset, and he is pulling numbers out of his kitten , he even says that he doesn’t have figures.

Agreed. Actually wanted to dislike the video, but apparently he hid behind a safe wall.

I was really hoping that obnoxious guy from the other day had got suspended from posting on the forums for a really long time and this was a post to tell us all about it.

Then I realised today is the day we post what some streamer says. Quite disappointed.

Kastiel.1947:

swansea.2453:

Very poor video, he total misses the points why people are upset, and he is pulling numbers out of his kitten , he even says that he doesn’t have figures.

Agreed. Actually wanted to dislike the video, but apparently he hid behind a safe wall.

Actually I think he made a valid point. Anet knows how many players by percentage have even 1 legendary. They know how many have 2.

If they create 16 legendary journeys, what they’re doing is creating content that most people will never do. It’s not really like a dynamic event or even a dungeon or fractal. It’s a long term goal that many people either can’t reach or can’t be bothered going for.

Saying that he doesn’t have numbers is quite irrelevant because Anet does have those numbers and they made the decision.

The only part I agree on is that from a management position it was probably a logical choice, not because of how many ppl that make a legendary tho, but more because apparently it takes 5 months for a single legendary. This precursor scavenger hunt was probably one of their worst mistakes with GW2.

This idea that only 1% of the population does this and that’s why it’s a good idea to cancel them is bs. A game doesn’t survive on only fluff content that 70% of the population does because it’s easy and they’re bored out of their mind. A game needs dedicated players that log on for more than 30min a day too. For that you need sustainable content as well as goals to work towards. Legendaries, like raids or WvW or PvP or any content worth repeating day after day is an important part of that.

It’s not a controversy it’s a decision about a video game that doesn’t really affect anyone’s life. Be thankful you have food on the table every night. I don’t know who Bog Otter is nor do I give a care about them or what they have to say.

Form your own opinion and express it don’t let someone else think and talk for you.

I’m not against the decision to stop working on them. It’s been clear for a long time that reality of the situation was Anet was working on way too many systems to cater to everyone and thus, really not producing anything for anyone. Moving more towards content focus is a good thing and someone was always going to be unhappy. This was just a game of musical chairs at this point and the legendaries got left without a chair (I, personally, wish it was raids, but can’t win them all)

But, to negate the impact of that decision by saying essentially that no one really wanted them….

Uhhh….

Anet built it’s entire current economy around the pursuit of them with ascended being the only other big ticket item and ascended still falls short in terms of raw materials required. I mean, literally, without their existence, the entire loot system is invalidated, because once you get full ascended, the mass quantity of utter garbage that is vomited into your inventory in PvE only has any value as being salvaged for raw materials to either sell to another players for their legendary or stockpile as your own.

And in the content draughts over the last like 1.5 years, working on Bifrost was really the only strong motivation I had at certain points to play the game.

So yeah, trivializing this decision and the impact it’s going to have on the game is just bullkitten in my opinion. If I am right, then the in game economy is going to take a huge dive, because a lot of materials are going to stop moving and pretty much everything that we get from doing events is going to lose all value to a player like me.

MadRabbit.3179:

I’m not against the decision to stop working on them. It’s been clear for a long time that reality of the situation was Anet was working on way too many systems to cater to everyone and thus, really not producing anything for anyone. Moving more towards content focus is a good thing and someone was always going to be unhappy. This was just a game of musical chairs at this point and the legendaries got left without a chair (I, personally, wish it was raids, but can’t win them all)

But, to negate the impact of that decision by saying essentially that no one really wanted them….

Uhhh….

Anet built it’s entire current economy around the pursuit of them with ascended being the only other big ticket item and ascended still falls short in terms of raw materials required. I mean, literally, without their existence, the entire loot system is invalidated, because once you get full ascended, the mass quantity of utter garbage that is vomited into your inventory in PvE only has any value as being salvaged for raw materials to either sell to another players for their legendary or stockpile as your own.

And in the content draughts over the last like 1.5 years, working on Bifrost was really the only strong motivation I had at certain points to play the game.

So yeah, trivializing this decision and the impact it’s going to have on the game is just bullkitten in my opinion. If I am right, then the in game economy is going to take a huge dive, because a lot of materials are going to stop moving and pretty much everything that we get from doing events is going to lose all value to a player like me.

No one said no one really wanted them. What’s being said is that most people get between say 0-2 legendaries.

So if they have to make 16 legendary journeys and post people aren’t using 14 of those journey’s then it becomes a waste of resources particiularly in a game that is in the middle of a content drought.

Vayne.8563:

Kastiel.1947:

swansea.2453:

Very poor video, he total misses the points why people are upset, and he is pulling numbers out of his kitten , he even says that he doesn’t have figures.

Agreed. Actually wanted to dislike the video, but apparently he hid behind a safe wall.

Actually I think he made a valid point. Anet knows how many players by percentage have even 1 legendary. They know how many have 2.

If they create 16 legendary journeys, what they’re doing is creating content that most people will never do. It’s not really like a dynamic event or even a dungeon or fractal. It’s a long term goal that many people either can’t reach or can’t be bothered going for.

Saying that he doesn’t have numbers is quite irrelevant because Anet does have those numbers and they made the decision.

Maybe they should have made the journey more of a journey and less of a
material / gold grind .. since that was what a lot people expected i think.
So yeah .. they wanted to do quests instead of pay 1000g or whatever, but
what they got is do the quests and pay still 999g .. lol

cranos.5913:

The only part I agree on is that from a management position it was probably a logical choice, not because of how many ppl that make a legendary tho, but more because apparently it takes 5 months for a single legendary. This precursor scavenger hunt was probably one of their worst mistakes with GW2.

Don’t we have those quests for all old Legendarys ? So if one quest needs 5 month
they must have started 3 years before release of HoT with them.

Oh and if that team of 6 needs 5 months for one scavanger hunt, how many
content will they be able to bring into the living world ? 1 episode every 6 months ?

Beldin.5498:

Vayne.8563:

Kastiel.1947:

swansea.2453:

Very poor video, he total misses the points why people are upset, and he is pulling numbers out of his kitten , he even says that he doesn’t have figures.

Agreed. Actually wanted to dislike the video, but apparently he hid behind a safe wall.

Actually I think he made a valid point. Anet knows how many players by percentage have even 1 legendary. They know how many have 2.

If they create 16 legendary journeys, what they’re doing is creating content that most people will never do. It’s not really like a dynamic event or even a dungeon or fractal. It’s a long term goal that many people either can’t reach or can’t be bothered going for.

Saying that he doesn’t have numbers is quite irrelevant because Anet does have those numbers and they made the decision.

Maybe they should have made the journey more of a journey and less of a
material / gold grind .. since that was what a lot people expected i think.
So yeah .. they wanted to do quests instead of pay 1000g or whatever, but
what they got is do the quests and pay still 999g .. lol

Did you do some of the collections for the elite spec ascended weapons? Man, I hoped the precursor journeys would have been like them. I have completed 6 out of 9 and enjoyed them a lot.

The problem with legendary weapons started with them a) being tradeable and b) them requiring an also tradeable precursor, being an extremely rare drop. To outweigh the pain of acquiring one they decided then to do an overly complex, time and material consuming alternative way of getting a precursor to “keep the effort high”. I don’t like that “economical balance” reasoning at all. Why did they need to make such complex collections, which turn out to be expensive to implement and unnecessarily error prone?

I disagree with that video tbh. Well not all points.

Yes they have the right to change their mind. It’s all about trust between the community and Anet. The fact is the expansion wasn’t finish when they shipped it and we trusted them that they would be finishing it in a reasonable delay, which they won’t be able to do anyway.

What will player will do next expansion? Will as many peope pre-order after that? Will as many people will buy the expansion during the first few weeks? Will as many people will pre-order a big package at 75 or 100$.

Beldin.5498:

Vayne.8563:

Kastiel.1947:

swansea.2453:

Very poor video, he total misses the points why people are upset, and he is pulling numbers out of his kitten , he even says that he doesn’t have figures.

Agreed. Actually wanted to dislike the video, but apparently he hid behind a safe wall.

Actually I think he made a valid point. Anet knows how many players by percentage have even 1 legendary. They know how many have 2.

If they create 16 legendary journeys, what they’re doing is creating content that most people will never do. It’s not really like a dynamic event or even a dungeon or fractal. It’s a long term goal that many people either can’t reach or can’t be bothered going for.

Saying that he doesn’t have numbers is quite irrelevant because Anet does have those numbers and they made the decision.

Maybe they should have made the journey more of a journey and less of a
material / gold grind .. since that was what a lot people expected i think.
So yeah .. they wanted to do quests instead of pay 1000g or whatever, but
what they got is do the quests and pay still 999g .. lol

Ayup.

ANet seems to have this thing of “we have numbers, therefore decisions” without actually determining why those numbers exist. And few things chuff me as hard as bad science.

Halvorn.9831:

Beldin.5498:

Vayne.8563:

Kastiel.1947:

swansea.2453:

Very poor video, he total misses the points why people are upset, and he is pulling numbers out of his kitten , he even says that he doesn’t have figures.

Agreed. Actually wanted to dislike the video, but apparently he hid behind a safe wall.

Actually I think he made a valid point. Anet knows how many players by percentage have even 1 legendary. They know how many have 2.

If they create 16 legendary journeys, what they’re doing is creating content that most people will never do. It’s not really like a dynamic event or even a dungeon or fractal. It’s a long term goal that many people either can’t reach or can’t be bothered going for.

Saying that he doesn’t have numbers is quite irrelevant because Anet does have those numbers and they made the decision.

Maybe they should have made the journey more of a journey and less of a
material / gold grind .. since that was what a lot people expected i think.
So yeah .. they wanted to do quests instead of pay 1000g or whatever, but
what they got is do the quests and pay still 999g .. lol

Did you do some of the collections for the elite spec ascended weapons? Man, I hoped the precursor journeys would have been like them. I have completed 6 out of 9 and enjoyed them a lot.

The problem with legendary weapons started with them a) being tradeable and b) them requiring an also tradeable precursor, being an extremely rare drop. To outweigh the pain of acquiring one they decided then to do an overly complex, time and material consuming alternative way of getting a precursor to “keep the effort high”. I don’t like that “economical balance” reasoning at all. Why did they need to make such complex collections, which turn out to be expensive to implement and unnecessarily error prone?

I only did the collections i could finished without having to enter HoT areas, so
that was mostly something for my Dragonhunter that i finished on my Warrior
and yay .. it was soulbound.

I liked it that Legendarys were tradeable since i dislike dungeons and PvP and
so mostly prefered to farm the gold and buy the legendary. That was one of
the reason i liked this game .. you were not forced to play contend you disliked
and could still get most stuff.

So one of many reasons i left was, i have 8000 Gold and 10.000 gems or whatever
and there is nothing to buy .. no legendarys .. no Armor Sets in the gemstore.

Oh yeah .. and armor sets in the gem store were of course also a problem, right ?
Thats why now we only get outfits .. and maybe 1 armorset ingame per year,
great stuff.

Vayne.8563:

Actually I think he made a valid point. Anet knows how many players by percentage have even 1 legendary. They know how many have 2.

If they create 16 legendary journeys, what they’re doing is creating content that most people will never do. It’s not really like a dynamic event or even a dungeon or fractal. It’s a long term goal that many people either can’t reach or can’t be bothered going for.

Saying that he doesn’t have numbers is quite irrelevant because Anet does have those numbers and they made the decision.

I don’t have the numbers either and would not be considered a Legendary chaser, but your general description here could also be applied to Raids. So…why are we doing them when there are that many more people that have been waiting on new Fractals, or and even larger player base for PvP or an even larger player base for WvW.

That said I have crafted two Legendary weapons in the past and will craft more in the future. It was fun and entertaining and in my case profitable since they were built to fund other projects. One of them I will remake for myself in the future even if it never sees actions since it was one of the under water weapons.

One thing this game lacks is unique and desired loot. Let’s be honest part of the fun is the shiny at the end that people can place some value in in this virtual world. For many Precursors and Legendary weapons are that shinny item. Have had one drop and even it was just Venom its still a fond memory. Same when on voice and other guild mates have had drops of their own. Its one of those “oooohhhh” moments for everyone since it is rare and therefore precious.

Now I get it, if there is that much work that is needed to go into new precursor crafting, then it is what it is. At the same time the point is valid that once people do a journey its over and it content that they will not be able to re-do, so it has limited value over the life of the game.

But, then why not go back to the old method for the new Legendary weapons and make the new Precursors non-soul bound and add them to loot tables. Let them be drops for now like the originals are. I am working under an assumption that graphical design is on level with releasing new BLTC skins, loot table additions are a database entry, so the more complex part is the addition of the recipes and mystic forge coding.

This way people still get some of what they thought they were getting, new desired items are introduced for people to find, it gives crafters more to do, gives TP people things to trade, and it acts as material sink for items that are in mass supply. And if possible in the future, Precursor crafting can added down the road as resources are made available from other projects.

Good gaming!

edit: Had some kittens show up, bad kitty.

Rauderi.8706:

Ayup.

ANet seems to have this thing of “we have numbers, therefore decisions” without actually determining why those numbers exist. And few things chuff me as hard as bad science.

I’m tempted to believe the main reason the HoT maps are the way they are (long meta-event chains, map-based “keys” taking inventory slots, boxes you open on a cast time that’s interrupted on hit) is because they looked at metrics showing that a majority of players spent a disproportionate amount of time in the Silverwastes.

TheGrimm.5624:

Vayne.8563:

Actually I think he made a valid point. Anet knows how many players by percentage have even 1 legendary. They know how many have 2.

If they create 16 legendary journeys, what they’re doing is creating content that most people will never do. It’s not really like a dynamic event or even a dungeon or fractal. It’s a long term goal that many people either can’t reach or can’t be bothered going for.

Saying that he doesn’t have numbers is quite irrelevant because Anet does have those numbers and they made the decision.

I don’t have the numbers either and would not be considered a Legendary chaser, but your general description here could also be applied to Raids. So…why are we doing them when there are that many more people that have been waiting on new Fractals, or and even larger player base for PvP or an even larger player base for WvW.

That said I have crafted two Legendary weapons in the past and will craft more in the future. It was fun and entertaining and in my case profitable since they were built to fund other projects. One of them I will remake for myself in the future even if it never sees actions since it was one of the under water weapons.

One thing this game lacks is unique and desired loot. Let’s be honest part of the fun is the shiny at the end that people can place some value in in this virtual world. For many Precursors and Legendary weapons are that shinny item. Have had one drop and even it was just Venom its still a fond memory. Same when on voice and other guild mates have had drops of their own. Its one of those “oooohhhh” moments for everyone since it is rare and therefore precious.

Now I get it, if there is that much work that is needed to go into new precursor crafting, then it is what it is. At the same time the point is valid that once people do a journey its over and it content that they will not be able to re-do, so it has limited value over the life of the game.

But, then why not go back to the old method for the new Legendary weapons and make the new Precursors non-soul bound and add them to loot tables. Let them be drops for now like the originals are. I am working under an assumption that graphical design is on level with releasing new BLTC skins, loot table additions are a database entry, so the more complex part is the addition of the recipes and mystic forge coding.

This way people still get some of what they thought they were getting, new desired items are introduced for people to find, it gives crafters more to do, gives TP people things to trade, and it acts as material sink for items that are in mass supply. And if possible in the future, Precursor crafting can added down the road as resources are made available from other projects.

Good gaming!

edit: Had some kittens show up, bad kitty.

So you’ve made 2 of the 20 plus legendaries in the game right now and in the future you might make more. See that’s exactly the point.

At this point, you haven’t made 18 of the legendaries, but time was put into making each of them…that’s exactly the point.

Most of the legendaries are wasted on you. It’s different with a raid, or something, because everyone who’s doing raids is doing the raids in the game.

Like if they designed 20 dungeons people each person only did 2 that would be a huge waste of resources.

Not to mention raids are repeatable and so are dungeons but very few people make the same legendary twice.

King Cephalopod.7942:

Rauderi.8706:

Ayup.

ANet seems to have this thing of “we have numbers, therefore decisions” without actually determining why those numbers exist. And few things chuff me as hard as bad science.

I’m tempted to believe the main reason the HoT maps are the way they are (long meta-event chains, map-based “keys” taking inventory slots, boxes you open on a cast time that’s interrupted on hit) is because they looked at metrics showing that a majority of players spent a disproportionate amount of time in the Silverwastes.

/blink
Interesting thought.

Not quite what I was going for. More directly related, there’s probably metrics on how many legendaries are actually in game and how many people are completing legendary collections. They might see low player adoption of these items as a reason not to continue.

But they’re not asking why there is low player adoption, and the reason is easily smeared all over the forums: It’s too expensive/grindy. It’s recognized as a fat material sink and it’s obvious. So, fewer players than anticipated are going to participate because ANet felt the need to “preserve the value of precursors”.

Vayne.8563:

So you’ve made 2 of the 20 plus legendaries in the game right now and in the future you might make more. See that’s exactly the point.

At this point, you haven’t made 18 of the legendaries, but time was put into making each of them…that’s exactly the point.

Most of the legendaries are wasted on you. It’s different with a raid, or something, because everyone who’s doing raids is doing the raids in the game.

Like if they designed 20 dungeons people each person only did 2 that would be a huge waste of resources.

Not to mention raids are repeatable and so are dungeons but very few people make the same legendary twice.

Concur on your points, which is why I can see dropping the crafting of the new Precusors, but that doesn’t mean they can be dropped as loot drops.

Side note: main reasons I haven’t crafted more is I find world completion and hearts dull, actually makes me fall asleep at the keyboard.

There are a few of us ticked they threw the legendaries that were supposed to come out in 2013 behind HoT’s paywall and now those aren’t even coming.

The core issue here is they continue time and again to not deliver on what they say is coming. Not only do they fail to deliver, they put it behind a new paywall and then fail to deliver again.

That’s unacceptable as a business practice. It goes beyond the thing they aren’t delivering on. That’s the actual issue for me. They are in the habit of practicing bad business.

King Cephalopod.7942:

I’m tempted to believe the main reason the HoT maps are the way they are (long meta-event chains, map-based “keys” taking inventory slots, boxes you open on a cast time that’s interrupted on hit) is because they looked at metrics showing that a majority of players spent a disproportionate amount of time in the Silverwastes.

I admit if I am going to PvE outside of Fractals, prefer to do it in the Silverwastes and new zones since there is a progressive feel to the map, where as the older maps are more for just gathering or bosses. That progressive feel is missing in the older maps which removes some replay-ability. Silverwastes kind of has that Marionette or Scarlet Invasion feel to them that makes you check to see if one is up and head there.

TheGrimm.5624:

I admit if I am going to PvE outside of Fractals, prefer to do it in the Silverwastes and new zones since there is a progressive feel to the map, where as the older maps are more for just gathering or bosses. That progressive feel is missing in the older maps which removes some replay-ability. Silverwastes kind of has that Marionette or Scarlet Invasion feel to them that makes you check to see if one is up and head there.

Well, the thing about that is the older maps are meant to feel like inhabited space, while SW is supposed to be a push against mordrem turf. But then I wasn’t around for LS1, so I only hear about those events by proxy. Even so, I find it much easier to hang around SW and just piddle about enjoying the atmosphere and killing everything in sight than I do in any of the HoT maps.

Vayne.8563:

MadRabbit.3179:

I’m not against the decision to stop working on them. It’s been clear for a long time that reality of the situation was Anet was working on way too many systems to cater to everyone and thus, really not producing anything for anyone. Moving more towards content focus is a good thing and someone was always going to be unhappy. This was just a game of musical chairs at this point and the legendaries got left without a chair (I, personally, wish it was raids, but can’t win them all)

But, to negate the impact of that decision by saying essentially that no one really wanted them….

Uhhh….

Anet built it’s entire current economy around the pursuit of them with ascended being the only other big ticket item and ascended still falls short in terms of raw materials required. I mean, literally, without their existence, the entire loot system is invalidated, because once you get full ascended, the mass quantity of utter garbage that is vomited into your inventory in PvE only has any value as being salvaged for raw materials to either sell to another players for their legendary or stockpile as your own.

And in the content draughts over the last like 1.5 years, working on Bifrost was really the only strong motivation I had at certain points to play the game.

So yeah, trivializing this decision and the impact it’s going to have on the game is just bullkitten in my opinion. If I am right, then the in game economy is going to take a huge dive, because a lot of materials are going to stop moving and pretty much everything that we get from doing events is going to lose all value to a player like me.

No one said no one really wanted them. What’s being said is that most people get between say 0-2 legendaries.

So if they have to make 16 legendary journeys and post people aren’t using 14 of those journey’s then it becomes a waste of resources particiularly in a game that is in the middle of a content drought.

That’s a bit more balanced way to look at it, but I think that removing the possibility of future ones is going to have a lot bigger impact on this game then people are giving it credit. The entire economy and the loot structure just revolves around them and ascended items alone aren’t big enough to fill the void in their wake.

I think after 3 years it is pretty safe to say that Anet has no idea how to read their metrics if they have them at all.

Vayne.8563:

Kastiel.1947:

swansea.2453:

Very poor video, he total misses the points why people are upset, and he is pulling numbers out of his kitten , he even says that he doesn’t have figures.

Agreed. Actually wanted to dislike the video, but apparently he hid behind a safe wall.

Actually I think he made a valid point. Anet knows how many players by percentage have even 1 legendary. They know how many have 2.

If they create 16 legendary journeys, what they’re doing is creating content that most people will never do. It’s not really like a dynamic event or even a dungeon or fractal. It’s a long term goal that many people either can’t reach or can’t be bothered going for.

Saying that he doesn’t have numbers is quite irrelevant because Anet does have those numbers and they made the decision.

OMG this is killing me, Excellant Post Vayne!!!!! lol

Beldin.5498:

cranos.5913:

The only part I agree on is that from a management position it was probably a logical choice, not because of how many ppl that make a legendary tho, but more because apparently it takes 5 months for a single legendary. This precursor scavenger hunt was probably one of their worst mistakes with GW2.

Don’t we have those quests for all old Legendarys ? So if one quest needs 5 month
they must have started 3 years before release of HoT with them.

Oh and if that team of 6 needs 5 months for one scavanger hunt, how many
content will they be able to bring into the living world ? 1 episode every 6 months ?

None of us can really answer those questions. I can speculate the amount of post-HoT bugfixing for those collection prob took a lot of time out of creating new ones, that the tools they have are bad which makes it take a lot of time, core game events need too much fixing/changing to make them viable for collections, etc… All we can really know is that they didn’t produce enough content and at the speed this was going we would be 2 more xpacs in before we actually saw the full set.

That’s why I think it’s a fairly logical choice. Is it the right one? In my opinion no, but I can understand why they did it.

As for what can these 6 produce if not legendaries… Again, no one can be sure but I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to imagine they’ll prob create some temporary fluff content to keep us busy till LS3 comes along.

Where does the logic come from that “If someone didn’t make a legendary, therefore it has no value to them”.

Legendaries do way more than just be for players who made them. I’ve helped guildies go for them, I’ve congratulated friends on getting them, I’ve seen them pass me by in LA and thought how cool they looked. I’ve sighed at the sheer volume of Twilights swinging around in fractal runs, and taken second glances when I saw a rare Minstrel or underwater legendary.

I remember when I first did Octovine, there was a guy there with Frostfang and Astralaria, double-wielding. I have little desire to own either of those (because I don’t use axes much), but it was really cool to see, and I remember that more than I remember anything else from that fight.

The world of GW2 is made up of players. It’s an MMO. Treating things like legendaries as something which occurs in a vacuum of one person doesn’t make sense.

Beldin.5498:

cranos.5913:

The only part I agree on is that from a management position it was probably a logical choice, not because of how many ppl that make a legendary tho, but more because apparently it takes 5 months for a single legendary. This precursor scavenger hunt was probably one of their worst mistakes with GW2.

Don’t we have those quests for all old Legendarys ? So if one quest needs 5 month
they must have started 3 years before release of HoT with them.

Oh and if that team of 6 needs 5 months for one scavanger hunt, how many
content will they be able to bring into the living world ? 1 episode every 6 months ?

You forget that the team working on future legendaries was more than likely the same team working on the collection problems for the current legendaries. That means they didnt have just 1 to work on, but 23-24 or whatever.

I have to say I think bog otter nailed it.

Beldin.5498:

Halvorn.9831:

Beldin.5498:

Vayne.8563:

Kastiel.1947:

swansea.2453:

Very poor video, he total misses the points why people are upset, and he is pulling numbers out of his kitten , he even says that he doesn’t have figures.

Agreed. Actually wanted to dislike the video, but apparently he hid behind a safe wall.

Actually I think he made a valid point. Anet knows how many players by percentage have even 1 legendary. They know how many have 2.

If they create 16 legendary journeys, what they’re doing is creating content that most people will never do. It’s not really like a dynamic event or even a dungeon or fractal. It’s a long term goal that many people either can’t reach or can’t be bothered going for.

Saying that he doesn’t have numbers is quite irrelevant because Anet does have those numbers and they made the decision.

Maybe they should have made the journey more of a journey and less of a
material / gold grind .. since that was what a lot people expected i think.
So yeah .. they wanted to do quests instead of pay 1000g or whatever, but
what they got is do the quests and pay still 999g .. lol

Did you do some of the collections for the elite spec ascended weapons? Man, I hoped the precursor journeys would have been like them. I have completed 6 out of 9 and enjoyed them a lot.

The problem with legendary weapons started with them a) being tradeable and b) them requiring an also tradeable precursor, being an extremely rare drop. To outweigh the pain of acquiring one they decided then to do an overly complex, time and material consuming alternative way of getting a precursor to “keep the effort high”. I don’t like that “economical balance” reasoning at all. Why did they need to make such complex collections, which turn out to be expensive to implement and unnecessarily error prone?

I only did the collections i could finished without having to enter HoT areas, so
that was mostly something for my Dragonhunter that i finished on my Warrior
and yay .. it was soulbound.

I liked it that Legendarys were tradeable since i dislike dungeons and PvP and
so mostly prefered to farm the gold and buy the legendary. That was one of
the reason i liked this game .. you were not forced to play contend you disliked
and could still get most stuff.

So one of many reasons i left was, i have 8000 Gold and 10.000 gems or whatever
and there is nothing to buy .. no legendarys .. no Armor Sets in the gemstore.

Oh yeah .. and armor sets in the gem store were of course also a problem, right ?
Thats why now we only get outfits .. and maybe 1 armorset ingame per year,
great stuff.

Can I have your stuff?

Vayne.8563:

Kastiel.1947:

swansea.2453:

Very poor video, he total misses the points why people are upset, and he is pulling numbers out of his kitten , he even says that he doesn’t have figures.

Agreed. Actually wanted to dislike the video, but apparently he hid behind a safe wall.

Actually I think he made a valid point. Anet knows how many players by percentage have even 1 legendary. They know how many have 2.

If they create 16 legendary journeys, what they’re doing is creating content that most people will never do. It’s not really like a dynamic event or even a dungeon or fractal. It’s a long term goal that many people either can’t reach or can’t be bothered going for.

Saying that he doesn’t have numbers is quite irrelevant because Anet does have those numbers and they made the decision.

+1!!!
They already wasted too much time on this legendary stuff, time to fix the game.

nicknamenick.2437:

+1!!!
They already wasted too much time on this legendary stuff, time to fix the game.

Legendary weapons are just as much a part of the game as anything else.

King Cephalopod.7942:

nicknamenick.2437:

+1!!!
They already wasted too much time on this legendary stuff, time to fix the game.

Legendary weapons are just as much a part of the game as anything else.

No its not, the skins are, but the skin issnt the problem, its the collection that kills dev time. Only for a few players, and even those 1-2% players only do 10-20% of the total work Anet put in for it, so no i dont agree that this is a real part of the game.
Sure its sad, but this game is dying…. I rather have them spending time on wvw/pvp/pve then those collection stuff

this video is way more sensible than the one from yesterday. he acknowledges just how niche legendaries are, and how they are indefinitely suspended instead of dramatically canceled forever

nicknamenick.2437:

No its not, the skins are, but the skin issnt the problem, its the collection that kills dev time. Only for a few players, and even those 1-2% players only do 10-20% of the total work Anet put in for it, so no i dont agree that this is a real part of the game.
Sure its sad, but this game is dying…. I rather have them spending time on wvw/pvp/pve then those collection stuff

“Collection stuff” is a part of pve. Legendary weapons (although trying to incorporate pvp and wvw using badges) are technically a part of pve. They might not be a big part, but they are a part. Where do you draw the line for what’s “niche”? 1%? 5%? 10%? 25%? 40%? When you look at everything the game is composed of, and all the player-time distributions, most activities can be classified as “niche” if you make the necessary difference small enough (i.e. high fractals, arah, CoE). For dev time, they made collections for all of the Gen1 precursors and 3 of the new precursors, so we can’t be sure just how much they take. And how godly are these 6 devs that they need to be pulled for other things, but no other devs that we know of are getting pulled?

What the idea, “legendaries don’t matter because they’re niche,” doesn’t seem to account for is that while the number of people making legendaries is small, the encounter rate of legendaries is quite high. Before I made a legendary, I’d still see quite a few people running around with them. They stick out, they grab attention, and they tend to be interesting even if annoying (dreamer/predator 1-spamming in LA). Seeing people running them adds a bit of fun to the world, like seeing people with a pvp/fractal backpiece or “The Eternal” title.

Edit: “suspended indefinitely” is the corporate PR-friendly way of dramatically cancelling forever. They are not technically the same, but from a functional standpoint they are largely interchangeable. A general rule of communication is that concrete, definitive statements are to be avoided.

you’re grasping for straws if you think seeing other people using a skin is significant content

and of course concrete canceled forever statements are avoided, it would be lying. anything can be revisited

If most people are not pursuing legendaries in a game genre that often emphasizes long term goals, it could very well be an indication less that new legenaries are a waste of resources rather than that the design and implementation of the old ones was faulty.

If I urinate in a pitcher of lemons and Ice and advertise it as lemonade, a lack of sales does not mean that no one likes lemonade or that making lemonade is a waste of time.

I never said significant. Just like I don’t consider half the NPC’s in the game significant. I simply like that they’re there.

“Suspended indefinitely” means we have no clue when or if we can get back to them. Because if MO said “we’ve stopped development for now” the next question from the masses is “for how long”.

Bog Otter is one of the Twitch streamers/YouTube video creaters they tap to do the pre and post show stream for various ANet events. He’s been covering the game from early beta and had worked as a Games Vlogger for what is now defunct game sites including hosting a weekly show on GW2 many years ago. This gives you a bit of background on the man.

Now since he’s considered “chummy” with ANet by those who never found anything positive to say about GW2, many simply dismiss him as a ANet “stooge”. He’s not but he is a glass half full kind of guy which annoys many.

The point he was making with the numbers that he admit he pulled out of the ether is ANet didn’t pick the new legendary development to stop out of a hat or a dart against a wall. They, ANet have the metrics to see if there were enough players taking advantage of the precursor collections in the last roughly six months to see if this was a good use of personal that could be better used on parts of the game that more players interact with. Period. Which is logically sound if ANet is trying to return the game to it’s former days of relatively routine content updates. Also show some long needed attention to WvW. Sorry I think PvP has gotten enough love for now, besides quarterly balancing to make try and make core professions relevant again in PvP.

But those enraged aren’t interested in discussing this or hearing someone with a bit more positive spin on it. Vocal members of the GW2 community want to be outraged, even if they never had any intention of getting a new legendary.

MastaNeenja.1537:

It’s not a controversy it’s a decision about a video game that doesn’t really affect anyone’s life. Be thankful you have food on the table every night. I don’t know who Bog Otter is nor do I give a care about them or what they have to say.

con-tro-ver-sy

[kon-truh-vur-see; British also kuh n-trov-er-see]

noun, plural controversies.

1. a prolonged public dispute, debate, or contention; disputation concerning a matter of opinion.

2. contention, strife, or argument.

Hmmm… <looks at public forum thread prolonging a disputation concerning a matter of opinion for over 40 pages over the weekend and continuing…>

Yeah you’re right, those dictionary guys got this entry all wrong. They gotta rewrite that ASAP. Sheesh who writes that garbage.

And otters don’t need no tables for food. Got perfectly good tummies to eat on thank you very much.

Form your own opinion and express it don’t let someone else think and talk for you.

I’ve posted on the matter before watching and posting the video. Doesn’t mean I can’t watch and hear another’s opinion on the tubes as well yo.

Kastiel.1947:

Actually wanted to dislike the video, but apparently he hid behind a safe wall.

Really? I was able to like his video. You should watch it again and check…

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

Vayne.8563:

Kastiel.1947:

swansea.2453:

Very poor video, he total misses the points why people are upset, and he is pulling numbers out of his kitten , he even says that he doesn’t have figures.

Agreed. Actually wanted to dislike the video, but apparently he hid behind a safe wall.

Actually I think he made a valid point. Anet knows how many players by percentage have even 1 legendary. They know how many have 2.

If they create 16 legendary journeys, what they’re doing is creating content that most people will never do. It’s not really like a dynamic event or even a dungeon or fractal. It’s a long term goal that many people either can’t reach or can’t be bothered going for.

Saying that he doesn’t have numbers is quite irrelevant because Anet does have those numbers and they made the decision.

OMG this is killing me, Excellant Post Vayne!!!!! lol

I’m sorry I’ll try to be less logical in the future. But in reality its’ jsut what Bog Otter is saying. I’m only reiterating it.

Vayne.8563:

Kastiel.1947:

swansea.2453:

Very poor video, he total misses the points why people are upset, and he is pulling numbers out of his kitten , he even says that he doesn’t have figures.

Agreed. Actually wanted to dislike the video, but apparently he hid behind a safe wall.

Actually I think he made a valid point. Anet knows how many players by percentage have even 1 legendary. They know how many have 2.

If they create 16 legendary journeys, what they’re doing is creating content that most people will never do. It’s not really like a dynamic event or even a dungeon or fractal. It’s a long term goal that many people either can’t reach or can’t be bothered going for.

Saying that he doesn’t have numbers is quite irrelevant because Anet does have those numbers and they made the decision.

Yeah that was his point and I think it’s valid too. Though I’d like Anet to clarify why designing legendary crafting takes so long now, when they used to think it would take a month each. Maybe Anet and players would have a better understanding then.

Wooden Potatoes put it in a way better way.

It doesn’t matter or not if Anet has the numbers. What matters are the numbers Anet gave us which is 16 new legendaries hidden behind another important number which was 50 dollars minimum U.S. currency for the expansion.

Besides Anet already knew long before HoT the numbers of people with legendaries and decided to do this anyway. Now that HoT hasn’t had the reception they thought now they are rushing another expac at the expense of promised HoT features.

Roxhemar.6039:

Wooden Potatoes put it in a way better way.

Civil War! Cap’n America vs Iron man, Batman vs Superman, Bog vs Wood! Who will wiiin?!

I actually watch and enjoy both lol.

Dashingsteel.3410:

It doesn’t matter or not if Anet has the numbers. What matters are the numbers Anet gave us which is 16 new legendaries hidden behind another important number which was 50 dollars minimum U.S. currency for the expansion.

Besides Anet already knew long before HoT the numbers of people with legendaries and decided to do this anyway. Now that HoT hasn’t had the reception they thought now they are rushing another expac at the expense of promised HoT features.

Exactly. Anet is doing what they think is best for the good of the game, not the good of what is likely a very small percentage of the player base. It’s a business decision. They have as much responsibility to the majority than the do to any minority, no matter what was printed on the box.

I suppose the biggest thing I take issue with, is that his video starts by assuming that the decision was a good one, and then defends this assertion by invoking an argument from ignorance over and over again. “Oh, you can’t say it is a bad decision because you don’t know how many people are working there already”, or “You can’t say it is a bad decision because you don’t have the metrics.” and so on. Basically, his whole video is that we are in the wrong for saying that this was a bad decision, because we cannot possibly comprehend what would be a good decision in this circumstance.

Yeah, no, I don’t buy it.

Woodenpotatoes is the opposite. Instead of using what we don’t know to assert that we cannot know, he builds on the knowledge that we do have and reasons back and forth between the points. Generally, I tend favor this approach, as I have issues to surrendering to ignorance. Deep, personal, existential issues, but issues nonetheless.

The one point he does make is that I think the community is a bit too outraged over this decision. I myself am more or less just mildly annoyed, but some people are just fuming. Social media is a bit like an echo chamber, in that the negativity keeps bouncing back and forth until it builds to the point where people start throwing bricks at peoples house. This decision isn’t that bad. But it is bad.

False advertising is not good for the game. Losing players trust is not good for the game. They keep going back on their word. The new expansion will not be made at the cost of the live game. Well it seems that they don’t have enough employees to deliver the live content. The reason? 70 employees working on the new expac.

“No matter what’s printed on the box”……… That is their philosophy right there. They don’t mind building up their product and making promises(after all that really is the easiest part) they have a problem DELIVERING the product(and that is really the most important part)