Guild Wars 2

After watching some talk with devs in youtube I got thinking about boon hate.
The idea seems to give some professions the option (traits?) to deal more dmg against targets with boons.
It sounds interesting to deal with boon-spamming bunkers (ele/guard) but I’m not sure how this would effect the group-play of such classes…
Would a flat dmg increase against buffed opponents make buffing class undesirable in groups?

Would it be better to have more options of boon removal/corruption/stealing?

Thiefs can steal 2 boons with their steal (when traited). What if they could remove 1-2 boons with venon applications (making venons more useful against bunkers) or change up to 5 boons into conditions on trap activation?
Necro has some nice boon removal/corruption. But seems the well pulses cant compete with some classes ability to just stack boons… Maybe increase the ammount of boons that are removed/corrupted by each pulse?

The main question is:
– Is more dmg to opponents with boons a better idea than more boom stripping/stealing/corruption?

Depends on the Class really, for instance any melee class, more flat damage against boons means that for instance on bunker guardian with Retaliation you’re just going to kill yourself even faster. Stripping the boons is more interesting.

Retaliation dmg is based on power and not on dmg dealt to you.
Doing more dmg to a target that has retaliation doesnt mean you take more dmg from it.

The tooltip is misleading.

Poor guardians that relly on boon duration lol!

if they take that out from guardians roles, they need to give at least a litle more health??

I mean… If you have more people removing boons, you gonna need more people giving boons… so you expand the roles on both sides.
If you have more people doing more dmg to anyone with boons, you make buffers undesirable and remove a role/play-style…

Or am I seeing this wrong?

In my opinion boon hate should be boon stripping. Something more classes should be able to spec for in certain trait lines.

There is no need to expand the buffers just because you expand the strippers, there is a reason why they want to introduce boon hate in some way. But then again, stripping or extra damage would be a spec thing, depending on class, some get it for free like necro.

lLobo.7960:

After watching some talk with devs in youtube I got thinking about boon hate.
The idea seems to give some professions the option (traits?) to deal more dmg against targets with boons.
It sounds interesting to deal with boon-spamming bunkers (ele/guard) but I’m not sure how this would effect the group-play of such classes…
Would a flat dmg increase against buffed opponents make buffing class undesirable in groups?

Would it be better to have more options of boon removal/corruption/stealing?

Thiefs can steal 2 boons with their steal (when traited). What if they could remove 1-2 boons with venon applications (making venons more useful against bunkers) or change up to 5 boons into conditions on trap activation?
Necro has some nice boon removal/corruption. But seems the well pulses cant compete with some classes ability to just stack boons… Maybe increase the ammount of boons that are removed/corrupted by each pulse?

The main question is:
– Is more dmg to opponents with boons a better idea than more boom stripping/stealing/corruption?

as for your thief example, stripping boons cant just catch up how guardians or eles apply boons,

steal boons on a traited steal with 36s CD is not efficient, because on a 36 sec CD, eles or guardians already re-applied the same boons over and over again

same as eles, if i removed thier regen buff, they can always apply it in just a matter of seconds after i remove thier boons

Boon heavy classes apply boons so fast, making skills/traits efficient enough at removing those would make every single boon useless for the not boon heavy classes. Better to add some boon hate thing instead.

Oldgrimm.8521:

lLobo.7960:

After watching some talk with devs in youtube I got thinking about boon hate.
The idea seems to give some professions the option (traits?) to deal more dmg against targets with boons.
It sounds interesting to deal with boon-spamming bunkers (ele/guard) but I’m not sure how this would effect the group-play of such classes…
Would a flat dmg increase against buffed opponents make buffing class undesirable in groups?

Would it be better to have more options of boon removal/corruption/stealing?

Thiefs can steal 2 boons with their steal (when traited). What if they could remove 1-2 boons with venon applications (making venons more useful against bunkers) or change up to 5 boons into conditions on trap activation?
Necro has some nice boon removal/corruption. But seems the well pulses cant compete with some classes ability to just stack boons… Maybe increase the ammount of boons that are removed/corrupted by each pulse?

The main question is:
– Is more dmg to opponents with boons a better idea than more boom stripping/stealing/corruption?

as for your thief example, stripping boons cant just catch up how guardians or eles apply boons,

steal boons on a traited steal with 36s CD is not efficient, because on a 36 sec CD, eles or guardians already re-applied the same boons over and over again

same as eles, if i removed thier regen buff, they can always apply it in just a matter of seconds after i remove thier boons

Dont forget the short boon duration of 5 sec.
For a Classskill that do a simple shadowstep and have a min 36s cd, I find Steal is to far away to be a effective skill.

The mesmer can steal 3 boons (and add 3 conditions to the enemy) with her full duration.

It’s all going to come down to how boon hate is implemented. If it’s implemented as a passive damage increase against a target depending on how many boons they have it will be an absolutely dreadful mechanic. All it will end up providing is another variable in the class skill coefficients where if a Thief doesn’t do enough damage against guardian’s, they’ll up the coefficient until the class is where it needs to be. They’ll then do the same thing for a different amount to Warriors, then Rangers, and so on. Terrible.

Instead, what if boon hate was attached to skills with cooldowns (not long cooldowns as they need to be a realistic element to keep in mind and not some small niche thing you see once in awhile) and these skills would destroy all boons on the target, place a debuff on the target so they can’t get new boons for 10 seconds, and did a small damage premium (+2% damage) per boon destroyed? This way you add a whole new dynamic to the game. Classes like Elementalists, Mesmers, and Guardians would now need to coordinate with their teams better, they’d have to reserve defensive skills for defensive purposes instead of lining up damage, and you encourage classes that are already ignored in this game (Warriors and Thieves in sPvP for example) a reason to be brought along.

You would then have to take into consideration if you want this mechanic done on single target only or via AE’s and such, but at least this way you add more depth to the pvp systen,

Atherakhia.4086:

It’s all going to come down to how boon hate is implemented. If it’s implemented as a passive damage increase against a target depending on how many boons they have it will be an absolutely dreadful mechanic. All it will end up providing is another variable in the class skill coefficients where if a Thief doesn’t do enough damage against guardian’s, they’ll up the coefficient until the class is where it needs to be. They’ll then do the same thing for a different amount to Warriors, then Rangers, and so on. Terrible.

This looks so reasonable and such a great idea. I mean, it’s a simple system, it’s got great tuning potentials and will lead to the point where Thief, Warrior and Rangers are where they need to be. What is there to hate?

Atherakhia.4086:

Instead, what if boon hate was attached to skills with cooldowns (not long cooldowns as they need to be a realistic element to keep in mind and not some small niche thing you see once in awhile) and these skills would destroy all boons on the target, place a debuff on the target so they can’t get new boons for 10 seconds, and did a small damage premium (+2% damage) per boon destroyed? This way you add a whole new dynamic to the game. Classes like Elementalists, Mesmers, and Guardians would now need to coordinate with their teams better, they’d have to reserve defensive skills for defensive purposes instead of lining up damage, and you encourage classes that are already ignored in this game (Warriors and Thieves in sPvP for example) a reason to be brought along.

Now this one is such a terrible idea XD Are you really suggesting such a huge penalty for getting hit by a low cooldown skill while having a single boon?

What new dynamic you added in the game except completely destroying ANY chance of guardian and elementalists from surviving any fight by completely shutting down their whole ability to use boons?

stof.9341:

Atherakhia.4086:

It’s all going to come down to how boon hate is implemented. If it’s implemented as a passive damage increase against a target depending on how many boons they have it will be an absolutely dreadful mechanic. All it will end up providing is another variable in the class skill coefficients where if a Thief doesn’t do enough damage against guardian’s, they’ll up the coefficient until the class is where it needs to be. They’ll then do the same thing for a different amount to Warriors, then Rangers, and so on. Terrible.

This looks so reasonable and such a great idea. I mean, it’s a simple system, it’s got great tuning potentials and will lead to the point where Thief, Warrior and Rangers are where they need to be. What is there to hate?

Atherakhia.4086:

Instead, what if boon hate was attached to skills with cooldowns (not long cooldowns as they need to be a realistic element to keep in mind and not some small niche thing you see once in awhile) and these skills would destroy all boons on the target, place a debuff on the target so they can’t get new boons for 10 seconds, and did a small damage premium (+2% damage) per boon destroyed? This way you add a whole new dynamic to the game. Classes like Elementalists, Mesmers, and Guardians would now need to coordinate with their teams better, they’d have to reserve defensive skills for defensive purposes instead of lining up damage, and you encourage classes that are already ignored in this game (Warriors and Thieves in sPvP for example) a reason to be brought along.

Now this one is such a terrible idea XD Are you really suggesting such a huge penalty for getting hit by a low cooldown skill while having a single boon?

What new dynamic you added in the game except completely destroying ANY chance of guardian and elementalists from surviving any fight by completely shutting down their whole ability to use boons?

1.) It’s a terrible idea because no one will know how boon hate works. Boon Hate trait for Warrior could give +.5% damage per boon where on a Ranger it could give +2.38% per boon. It also doesn’t do anything but boost damage. If you look at the state of things in sPvP, damage isn’t the main issue holding classes like Warriors and Thieves back.

2.) Shutting boons down for 10 seconds out of every 30 seconds is going to be the end of the world for Guardians and Elementalists? The same classes that can become immune for nearly 10 seconds through skill and ability use? The same classes that can move unhindered 1200 yards away? The same classes have more than one method of healing?

I’m sure they’ll manage. And if they can’t, then change the counter from 10 seconds to 4. Figure it out.

Now as for depth? We have classes right now like Warriors and Thieves that don’t bring anything to the table in sPvP. Boon Hate alone still won’t allow them to be functional classes, but at least they’d have a role to play. And anything that adds more depth to the PvP system is a good thing.

Atherakhia.4086:

1.) It’s a terrible idea because no one will know how boon hate works. Boon Hate trait for Warrior could give +.5% damage per boon where on a Ranger it could give +2.38% per boon. It also doesn’t do anything but boost damage. If you look at the state of things in sPvP, damage isn’t the main issue holding classes like Warriors and Thieves back.

Or you know, it could just be written in the trait description like every single boost of the kind is currently written …

Atherakhia.4086:

2.) Shutting boons down for 10 seconds out of every 30 seconds is going to be the end of the world for Guardians and Elementalists? The same classes that can become immune for nearly 10 seconds through skill and ability use? The same classes that can move unhindered 1200 yards away? The same classes have more than one method of healing?

10s without boons = 2 less dodges for vigor buffed classes. That’s 50% less dodges for elementalist which means losing 2 condition removals, plenty of damage mitigation and some healing. 10s without boons = 10s without protection. Without regeneration. Without retaliation and stability. Without might and fury which allow those classes to have a presence on the point above the unkillable part. It’s huge.

Moving 1200 yards away = losing the point, ie they got countered in the process.

Atherakhia.4086:

I’m sure they’ll manage. And if they can’t, then change the counter from 10 seconds to 4. Figure it out.

Hey, you are tweaking numbers here. I though balance wasn’t done by tweaking numbers but by adding new mecanics?

Atherakhia.4086:

Now as for depth? We have classes right now like Warriors and Thieves that don’t bring anything to the table in sPvP. Boon Hate alone still won’t allow them to be functional classes, but at least they’d have a role to play. And anything that adds more depth to the PvP system is a good thing.

Boon hate will allow ANet to tone down the burst of those two classes while increasing their sustained damage at the same time. Thus giving them a fair chance at bursting down the current bunkers without making them instagib anything that isn’t a bunker. Or do you think the Boon Hate thing would be given to us alone with nothing else to go with it?

There’s plenty of options here. Maybe a flat damage bonus isn’t the best way to do Boon Hate but you sure didn’t provide any better solution.

Atherakhia.4086:

stof.9341:

Atherakhia.4086:

It’s all going to come down to how boon hate is implemented. If it’s implemented as a passive damage increase against a target depending on how many boons they have it will be an absolutely dreadful mechanic. All it will end up providing is another variable in the class skill coefficients where if a Thief doesn’t do enough damage against guardian’s, they’ll up the coefficient until the class is where it needs to be. They’ll then do the same thing for a different amount to Warriors, then Rangers, and so on. Terrible.

This looks so reasonable and such a great idea. I mean, it’s a simple system, it’s got great tuning potentials and will lead to the point where Thief, Warrior and Rangers are where they need to be. What is there to hate?

Atherakhia.4086:

Instead, what if boon hate was attached to skills with cooldowns (not long cooldowns as they need to be a realistic element to keep in mind and not some small niche thing you see once in awhile) and these skills would destroy all boons on the target, place a debuff on the target so they can’t get new boons for 10 seconds, and did a small damage premium (+2% damage) per boon destroyed? This way you add a whole new dynamic to the game. Classes like Elementalists, Mesmers, and Guardians would now need to coordinate with their teams better, they’d have to reserve defensive skills for defensive purposes instead of lining up damage, and you encourage classes that are already ignored in this game (Warriors and Thieves in sPvP for example) a reason to be brought along.

Now this one is such a terrible idea XD Are you really suggesting such a huge penalty for getting hit by a low cooldown skill while having a single boon?

What new dynamic you added in the game except completely destroying ANY chance of guardian and elementalists from surviving any fight by completely shutting down their whole ability to use boons?

1.) It’s a terrible idea because no one will know how boon hate works. Boon Hate trait for Warrior could give +.5% damage per boon where on a Ranger it could give +2.38% per boon. It also doesn’t do anything but boost damage. If you look at the state of things in sPvP, damage isn’t the main issue holding classes like Warriors and Thieves back.

2.) Shutting boons down for 10 seconds out of every 30 seconds is going to be the end of the world for Guardians and Elementalists? The same classes that can become immune for nearly 10 seconds through skill and ability use? The same classes that can move unhindered 1200 yards away? The same classes have more than one method of healing?

I’m sure they’ll manage. And if they can’t, then change the counter from 10 seconds to 4. Figure it out.

Now as for depth? We have classes right now like Warriors and Thieves that don’t bring anything to the table in sPvP. Boon Hate alone still won’t allow them to be functional classes, but at least they’d have a role to play. And anything that adds more depth to the PvP system is a good thing.

i like the idea of shutting them down, and not be able to gain buffs on a certain duration, like 4 secs, like thieves reveal debuff