Guild Wars 2

Xiahou Mao.9701:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

I can’t wait for an Anet employee to come in here and tell you fools that grouping up does not affect your loot in any way shape or form, since you refuse to believe other players when they tell you so.

What CAN affect your loot drops is the total amount of dps (or lack thereof).

I… don’t think you actually read the whole thread.

DPS doesn’t affect loot drops beyond a bare minimum required, that can be obtained via two or three auto-attacks barring being underlevelled or underequipped. Grouping does affect loot drops, insofar as the current loot system is bugged when massive amounts of players are involved, as seen in world bosses. Only the first X players (50ish?) who deal any damage to the target creature wind up flagged to get XP and loot from it when it dies. People who are grouped with someone within the first X number of players will also get loot, due to the party system sharing loot rights. That’s how grouping can help, but the real issue here is that someone can show up to a fight a little bit late with a champion like a Modnir War Beast or the Svanir Shaman, deal 20,000 damage in the fight and not get a champion loot bag from the enemy, whereas someone else who was present when the enemy spawned and tags it quickly can do 2,000 damage to the enemy and get the champ bag.

Everyone who meets the minimum damage threshold should get loot. But right now, only the first number players to hit the enemy (and others grouped with them) do so. That should be fixed. But the Bug Reports threads about it have so far been ignored.

I have read this thread, and I have read countless threads just like it in the past.

This is just an urban legend.

If you aren’t getting your “guaranteed” loot, you are not dealing enough damage, plain and simple.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

I have read this thread, and I have read countless threads just like it in the past.

This is just an urban legend.

If you aren’t getting your “guaranteed” loot, you are not dealing enough damage, plain and simple.

‘Dealing enough damage’ is actually the urban legend, and you’re buying into it. If you’d like to see the truth, you’re welcome to do the test yourself.

Go to the Frozen Maw event and wait by the Shaman during the pre-events, without a group. Once the pre-events end and he becomes vulnerable hit him quickly hit him with an attack. Add a few more auto-attacks, so that you do between 1000-2000 total damage to him, then wander off out of range and maybe do a /dance. When the event ends and everyone else kills him for you, return to his corpse and you’ll find that you can loot a Gilded Strongbox from him, in addition to your world boss loot. That will fly in the face of your ‘dealing enough damage’ urban legend.

The next test works best with friends, but in conjunction with the above test it can be done solo. Go to the Frozen Maw event and do the pre-events this time, go close the Mists Portals. When the Shaman becomes vulnerable and the final event starts, wait until he drops to around 80% to 90% health before you start attacking, and make sure all the other players in your group (if you bring a group) do the same thing. At that point, go all out and pile on the damage. Backstabs, Hundred Blades, Fire Grabs, Jump Shots, whatever you can do, do it. You’ll deal tens of thousands of damage to the Svanir Shaman, even on your own, if you’re grouped you might even get up to a hundred thousand damage on the poor guy. But when the event is done, the Shaman corpse will be unlootable and you won’t get a Gilded Strongbox. Again, disproving your “deal enough damage” urban legend.

So why can you get a champ bag by doing 2,000 damage solo in one example, but you can’t get one by doing over ten times that much damage in the other? Because loot is assigned by how fast you hit the enemy in question, rather than the total damage you do. Yes, there is a minimum damage required for loot. That minimum damage can be done with a few auto-attacks, so it’s not relevant for this bug. The issue is that only the first fifty people (Forty? Sixty?) who hit an enemy qualify for the loot that specific enemy drops. The players above that limit will still get event credit, they’ll still get the giant world boss chest and the guaranteed bonus rare and whatever else might be assigned to the event. But this is about the loot that a single enemy drops, most typically the champion loot bag. Champion loot bags should be available to everyone who fights the champion, rather than being first-come, first-served.

The other people in this thread who’ve done the test have seen the truth. One person wasn’t even aware that the Svanir Shaman could drop a champion loot bag until he tried this out at my behest. You’re invited to do the same, because clearly, you know how annoying urban legends are, and the thought that you’re on the wrong end of one should be sticking in your craw, just a bit.

Xiahou Mao.9701:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

I have read this thread, and I have read countless threads just like it in the past.

This is just an urban legend.

If you aren’t getting your “guaranteed” loot, you are not dealing enough damage, plain and simple.

‘Dealing enough damage’ is actually the urban legend, and you’re buying into it. If you’d like to see the truth, you’re welcome to do the test yourself.

Go to the Frozen Maw event and wait by the Shaman during the pre-events, without a group. Once the pre-events end and he becomes vulnerable hit him quickly hit him with an attack. Add a few more auto-attacks, so that you do between 1000-2000 total damage to him, then wander off out of range and maybe do a /dance. When the event ends and everyone else kills him for you, return to his corpse and you’ll find that you can loot a Gilded Strongbox from him, in addition to your world boss loot. That will fly in the face of your ‘dealing enough damage’ urban legend.

The next test works best with friends, but in conjunction with the above test it can be done solo. Go to the Frozen Maw event and do the pre-events this time, go close the Mists Portals. When the Shaman becomes vulnerable and the final event starts, wait until he drops to around 80% to 90% health before you start attacking, and make sure all the other players in your group (if you bring a group) do the same thing. At that point, go all out and pile on the damage. Backstabs, Hundred Blades, Fire Grabs, Jump Shots, whatever you can do, do it. You’ll deal tens of thousands of damage to the Svanir Shaman, even on your own, if you’re grouped you might even get up to a hundred thousand damage on the poor guy. But when the event is done, the Shaman corpse will be unlootable and you won’t get a Gilded Strongbox. Again, disproving your “deal enough damage” urban legend.

So why can you get a champ bag by doing 2,000 damage solo in one example, but you can’t get one by doing over ten times that much damage in the other? Because loot is assigned by how fast you hit the enemy in question, rather than the total damage you do. Yes, there is a minimum damage required for loot. That minimum damage can be done with a few auto-attacks, so it’s not relevant for this bug. The issue is that only the first fifty people (Forty? Sixty?) who hit an enemy qualify for the loot that specific enemy drops. The players above that limit will still get event credit, they’ll still get the giant world boss chest and the guaranteed bonus rare and whatever else might be assigned to the event. But this is about the loot that a single enemy drops, most typically the champion loot bag. Champion loot bags should be available to everyone who fights the champion, rather than being first-come, first-served.

The other people in this thread who’ve done the test have seen the truth. One person wasn’t even aware that the Svanir Shaman could drop a champion loot bag until he tried this out at my behest. You’re invited to do the same, because clearly, you know how annoying urban legends are, and the thought that you’re on the wrong end of one should be sticking in your craw, just a bit.

This is complete nonsense, and your “testing” methods are weak at best.

Telling me that you don’t participate in the boss fight for for 90% of his hp…. and wonder why you don’t get any loot does not convince me that you are doing enough damage.

Also…. Did you do the same two things with and without a party?

Because I think you will find that being in a party changes absolutely nothing.

What you might be failing to take into account is the zerg size fighting the boss.

You can solo a boss, and deal less overall damage than you do in a fight where there are 93240823402934823949 people attacking him because the boss scales up.

Dealing 100k dmg might be enough to kill a champ solo, but dealing 100k damage to a fully scaled world boss is barely a noticable mark on his hp.

Also, dealing 2k dmg to a boss at the beginning of a fight before his health is scaled up is the same % of the boss’s hp as dealing 200k dmg after there are a kajillion people there fighting him.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

This is complete nonsense, and your “testing” methods are weak at best.

Telling me that you don’t participate in the boss fight for for 90% of his hp…. and wonder why you don’t get any loot does not convince me that you are doing enough damage.

You misread what I wrote. You will participate in the fight for 90% of its HP. I only want you to wait until the boss is down to 90% of its health, not until it’s down to 10% of its health. Basically, just stand back and watch for 10-15 seconds when the fight starts, then jump in. Ensure that you’re not one of the first 75 people to tag it. You’re still going to be DPSing it for the majority of the fight, and ideally you’re going to be DPSing it hard. But you won’t get the champ bag.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

]Also…. Did you do the same two things with and without a party?

Because I think you will find that being in a party changes absolutely nothing.

What you might be failing to take into account is the zerg size fighting the boss.

You can solo a boss, and deal less overall damage than you do in a fight where there are 93240823402934823949 people attacking him because the boss scales up.

Dealing 100k dmg might be enough to kill a champ solo, but dealing 100k damage to a fully scaled world boss is barely a noticable mark on his hp.

Also, dealing 2k dmg to a boss at the beginning of a fight before his health is scaled up is the same % of the boss’s hp as dealing 200k dmg after there are a kajillion people there fighting him.

I’ve done it with and without a party. That said, your last point is completely absurd, because if it was possible to do damage to the boss “before its health scales up”, then the boss would keel over and die instantly as the thirty people camping and shooting auto-attacks at it while it’s invulnerable would be hitting “unscaled health” once the event finally starts.

But if you’re going to stick to that absurdity, feel free to change that test to this. Hang out next to the Svanir Shaman and wait for the event to start and its invulnerability to fade, then quickly hit it with your attack that does the smallest damage possible. Head Shot for a thief is good, it’ll do about 50-100 damage. Other classes should have similar options, all that’s needed is that it causes a damage number to pop up, even if that damage number is 0 (see: newly spawned Legendary Karka Queen with 50 stacks of armour.. you’ll still tag her by hitting for 0). After landing that one tiny attack, back out of range and wait until the Shaman (or Karka Queen) is brought down to half health or so, then come back in and deal the 1000-2000 damage that is needed to get minimum credit (maybe 3000-4000 for the Karka Queen to be safe, as it’s a higher level zone). You’ll still get the champion loot bag.

People sure come up with some interesting reasons to try to justify their urban legends. The nice thing about it, though, is that there’s always a way to test it to disprove them, if people want to put in the effort to do so.

As for people speaking about damage thresholds, you might be able to do enough damage to account for a kill yourself, yes, but in events where enemies die in one or two hits and you aren’t able to even get one hit off to tag them (think the Harathi Highlands events), it’s better to have a full party, because then you have 5x the chance of your party tagging an enemy before it dies.

Well, the patch brings about an interesting change that may have been intended to address this…

I’ve done two world bosses involving champions today so far, Rhendak in the Font of Rhand, and the Frozen Maw. In both cases, the world boss chest included a champion loot bag that wasn’t there before. If that’s a way to try to make up for the loot bag that people miss out on for being late to tag, then that’s a good thing! The problem, such as it is, is that the world bosses themselves still drop their own champion loot bags for those who tag quickly.. thus meaning there’s still an imbalance in things.

And that’s not getting into the other world bosses where the champ bags aren’t part of the final enemy. I somehow doubt the Modnir War Beasts or Avatars of Woe have their multiple champ bags placed into the event chain’s last chest. But maybe I’ll find out if I do those events tonight!

Just to add to the above, I did get to go to the Jungle Wurm in Caledon Forest, and there were no Heirloom Seed Pouches added to the world boss chest in that fight. So if the extra champ bags are a method to help try to control this bug, that method isn’t taking pre-events into account.

Xiahou Mao.9701:

People sure come up with some interesting reasons to try to justify their urban legends. The nice thing about it, though, is that there’s always a way to test it to disprove them, if people want to put in the effort to do so.

There is no “test” that you have mentioned thus far that has done anything whatsoever to support the claim that being in a party increases your loot.

If you want to accuse people of “justifying their urban legends” perhaps you should look in the mirror.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

There is no “test” that you have mentioned thus far that has done anything whatsoever to support the claim that being in a party increases your loot.

If you want to accuse people of “justifying their urban legends” perhaps you should look in the mirror.

Now in addition to justifying your urban legends, you’re moving the goalposts. My tests are explaining how to replicate the bug wherein only the first X number of players to attack an enemy get loot at all. The people who’ve actually taken the time to do as I’ve suggested have come back and said that I’m right. In and of themselves, the tests don’t have anything to do with the initial premise of the thread’s creator, that being parties increasing your loot. But, it’s still relevant.

There are two factors in how partying with other players can affect your loot drops. The first is the more common one. There is a minimum damage requirement needed to qualify for loot from a creature. It’s usually 2-3 auto-attacks worth, maybe a bit more if you’re a defensive or condition damage build. However, if you’re partied, that minimum damage requirement becomes much more relaxed, counting your party’s total damage rather than each player individually. With that taken into account, even if you land only one auto-attack on an enemy, you’ll still get loot if your damage added to the damage of other players in your group becomes enough to meet that minimum requirement. This is why, in events in Orr where a ton of enemies spawn, five Guardians partied together spamming Staff 1 everywhere will get more loot than if they were each playing solo. A single hit of Staff 1 might not be enough to qualify for loot when things are dying fast, but a combined group effort of Staff 1 spam will be enough.

The second example of parties helping get loot is tied into the bug that I’ve been encouraging people to test and discover. Only the first X number of players (likely 50+, but I obviously don’t know the exact number) that deal damage to a given enemy qualify to earn its loot drops, such a champion loot bags. But partying lets you get around that cap. If you are the 100th player to hit an enemy champion, you normally won’t qualify for its champion loot bag. However, if you’re the 100th player to hit the enemy champion, but you’re partied with the 15th player to hit that same enemy champion, he will share the loot rights through the party with you, thus allowing you to break the “only the first X number of players to hit the enemy get loot credit” bug.

This can be tested along with the tests I gave above, once you’ve dismissed the urban legend of “must do tons of DPS to get loot credit” that you’re currently operating under. Bring a friend to Frozen Maw. You can camp out near the Shaman to tag it quickly once it becomes vulnerable to ensure you get loot, your friend can wait until the Shaman is down to less health (80%-90% health remaining) before attacking it. You’ll get loot, your friend won’t. Then the next day, do the exact same thing, except make sure you’re partied together. This time, your friend will get his own champion loot bag even though he was slower to engage, because he’s sharing your loot rights.

You know, in the four days it’s been since last you’ve posted, you could have easily done any of the things I’ve suggested already to learn the truth for yourself. Is there a reason you’re resistant to trying this out? Are you afraid to be proven wrong?

Xiahou Mao.9701:

However, if you’re partied, that minimum damage requirement becomes much more relaxed, counting your party’s total damage rather than each player individually.

This is just not true.

I don’t know where you heard this, or where you got this from, but this is completely 100% false.

You can test this yourself anywhere in the game…. but dungeons for example are the best way.

If you show up late to a boss fight, and tag after the boss has been lowered to 10% hp, you can still miss out on your champ bag.

Everyone attacking the boss is in the same party including you, and there are no other outside forces dealing damage to the boss.

Unless you are suggesting that loot drops are for some magical reason changed at world events, I’d say you are just mistaking placebo for actual results.

Xiahou Mao.9701:

However, if you’re the 100th player to hit the enemy champion, but you’re partied with the 15th player to hit that same enemy champion, he will share the loot rights through the party with you, thus allowing you to break the “only the first X number of players to hit the enemy get loot credit” bug.

This is also false.

There is no “cap” on the amount of players who receive loot at a world boss event.
I know you are saying this is a bug, and it might not always be present…. but I find it rather ironic that this “bug” is never around when myself or anyone else has tested your “reserved loot spot” theory.

Xiahou Mao.9701:

You know, in the four days it’s been since last you’ve posted, you could have easily done any of the things I’ve suggested already to learn the truth for yourself. Is there a reason you’re resistant to trying this out? Are you afraid to be proven wrong?

I participate in a world boss train every day.
Sometimes with a party, sometimes without.

The only thing I have noticed is the contrary to your claims.

IE: Missing out on champ boxes while being in a party.

I’m definitely not afraid of being wrong, haha.

The entire reason I’m responding to your “pseudo-science” is because I’d really like to see people spreading factual information around, rather than good luck rituals.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

This is also false.

There is no “cap” on the amount of players who receive loot at a world boss event.
I know you are saying this is a bug, and it might not always be present…. but I find it rather ironic that this “bug” is never around when myself or anyone else has tested your “reserved loot spot” theory.

You haven’t tested it, though. Other people in this thread have, and they acknowledge that it’s the case. There was someone else in this thread who was vehemently denying that I was right, until he actually went and did my test as I asked that he do, at which point he said “wait, the Svanir Shaman can drop a champion loot bag!?”. He was unaware that it was even possible, because the bug affected him every single time he fought the Shaman (due to participating in the pre-event portal closing), and it wasn’t until he took my advice and tried to tag it early that he saw that the bug existed.

There is a cap on the number of people who can get loot from a single enemy. It is a bug. It’s easily replicated. People in this thread have replicated it using the means I’ve provided. You seem reluctant to try the means I’ve suggested.

Why are you reluctant to try?

I participate in a world boss train every day.
Sometimes with a party, sometimes without.

The only thing I have noticed is the contrary to your claims.

IE: Missing out on champ boxes while being in a party.

I’m definitely not afraid of being wrong, haha.

The entire reason I’m responding to your “pseudo-science” is because I’d really like to see people spreading factual information around, rather than good luck rituals.

Missing out on champ bags while being in a party isn’t necessarily contrary to my claims. It’s pretty easy to see happening and to replicate. Case in point.

You’ve got a party of five, fighting that beloved Svanir Shaman. You all did the portal-closing pre-event because you’re not lazy leeches. Good for you! But because of that, you’re all late to tag the Shaman itself. Even though you ran straight from the finishing portal event to engage the Shaman, none of your group were among the first fifty players to deal damage to the champ. As a result, even though you’re in a party, the amount of damage you deal doesn’t matter. None of you get champ bags at the end, no matter how much damage you deal.

You can keep calling it “pseudo-science” or an “urban legend” or whatever you want. I’ve sat down and tested all of this in game, because the inconsistencies bothered me. I didn’t know why sometimes my solo Shortbow auto-attacks as a thief could get me the Svanir Shaman champ bag, and other times my group of three or four players attacking the same champion didn’t get a champ bag despite me using Dagger/Dagger and lots of Backstab and Heartseeker. It annoyed me enough that I started these tests, and after performing a lot of them, I came to these conclusions. Everyone else in this thread who has actually tried these tests has come to the same conclusion as me.

You haven’t tried these tests. You’re operating under your commonly accepted assumptions and refuse to even consider that you might be wrong. You even admitted there that you didn’t get a champion bag while partied fighting a champion, which means you’ve been victimized by this bug yourself. And yet, rather than simply trying the methodology I put forward, you’re just trying to shout it down.

Do what the other people in this thread did. Try it out. Either go solo and deal 2000 damage quickly to the Shaman, then stop attacking and enjoy the champ bag you still get, or bring your party and tag him after everyone else has, then go all-out and wonder why none of you got champ bags when he dies. You’ve already experienced the latter test, but you just haven’t connected the dots with what I’m saying. Go in again with an open mind, and you’ll see the truth, just like the others in this thread. Or keep being stubborn and don’t question why sometimes you’re not getting the loot you should, even while I’m bouncing around the Avatars of Woe solo in Caledon Forest tagging each of them with a few auto-attacks to ensure I get all three Heirloom Seed Pouches every time. If you refuse to look at things critically for yourself, there’s only so much I can do.

I’d love for the bug to get fixed for everyone, and I’m going to keep trying to bring it to Arenanet’s attention. But because I know how it works and what needs to be done to get around it, I’m always going to get my champion bags. I’m posting this to try to help the rest of you be able to get them too.

Xiahou Mao.9701:

lengthy response.

No…. I’m not a “victim” and I altered my playstyle to go out of my way and test these absurd notions you have about how the loot system works in this game. Just in case…. due to some random hidden patch by anet, something has changed since the last time I tested all of this.

I have tested, even though I am sure of the outcome, and found results disproving all of the placebo “party-up for better loot”.

Now, again….. nobody is saying that people do not miss out on loot boxes from time to time.

But in my personal experiences and tests, along with the experiences and tests of my 500 guild mates who also participate in the daily world event train…..

Everything we’ve experienced points100% to lack of participation, partied or not.

Aside from not getting loot due to this “bug” / lack of participation, the title of this thread, and the discussion within is pertaining to the outcome of loot with a party and loot without a party.

Bug or no bug…
Players do not have a guaranteed champ box if they are in a party.
Players do not have an increased chance of a champ box for being in a party.
Parties have absolutely nothing to do with whether you do or do not get a champ box.

I am really waiting and hoping for a dev response in this thread now.

And I hope it isn’t another one of those “We’re looking into it.” responses, either.

I hope he goes into great detail about how being in a party does nothing as far as drops/ eventparticipation is concerned, so I can give you a great big “I told you so.”

They don’t have a guaranteed chance of a champ box if the 4 other members and themselves aren’t hitting fast enough in a group of 50+ that is – it really is that simple and no one in this thread said that anything would be guaranteed.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Now, again….. nobody is saying that people do not miss out on loot boxes from time to time.

But in my personal experiences and tests, along with the experiences and tests of my 500 guild mates who also participate in the daily world event train…..

Everything we’ve experienced points100% to lack of participation, partied or not.

Lack of participation such as… not showing up on time to tag the enemy quickly when a huge mass of players is hitting it? Because that proves what I’m saying.

If you just mean lack of participation as in ‘not DPSing hard enough’, then that’s easily enough disproved by me being able to get champion loot bags from world boss champions every time by doing under 5000 total damage, as long as I’m one of the first people to hit the enemy. And if you tested yourself, you could find that too!

Bug or no bug…
Players do not have a guaranteed champ box if they are in a party.
Players do not have an increased chance of a champ box for being in a party.
Parties have absolutely nothing to do with whether you do or do not get a champ box.

1: You’re right, you’re not guaranteed to get a champ bag by being in a party. If your whole party is late to tag a given champion in a mass combat situation, your whole party will miss out.

2: Sort of right, in that there is no ‘chance’ involved in getting a champ bag. Either you or someone in your group tags the champ in time, or you or everyone in your group fails to tag the champ in time. Those actions and those actions alone will guarantee whether you get the champ bag or not. No randomness involved at all.

3: False, having a party lets you get around the loot limit bug and exceed the normal amount of players who qualify for loot from a single enemy.

This is all easy to test. You’ve gone from saying that “none of these tests could work” to “my guild of five hundred people have all tested this”, which leads me to believe that you’re being a bit dishonest with the latter point. I find it hard to believe that there’s four hundred and ninety nine other people in your guild who are so hard-headed as to make claims based on popular assumption without actually trying things out themselves.

Forget about the “Parties get better loot” thing for a moment. Stick with the “Only the first X players to hit an enemy get loot” thing to start. Go test that, using the methods I’ve given, rather than repeatedly trying to brush it off. Get yourself a champion loot bag while doing only 2000 damage. Watch yourself miss out on champion loot bags while doing 40000 damage. See the truth for yourself. Then we can get back to talking about what effect parties have or don’t have.

Why "solo"big events cant see any perks of it so thats why you party its just always
better

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Xiahou Mao.9701:

This is all easy to test. You’ve gone from saying that “none of these tests could work” to “my guild of five hundred people have all tested this”, which leads me to believe that you’re being a bit dishonest with the latter point. I find it hard to believe that there’s four hundred and ninety nine other people in your guild who are so hard-headed as to make claims based on popular assumption without actually trying things out themselves.

Tested, meaning of course past tense.

This topic of conversation came and went ages ago.

The urban legend made its way into my guild and our world even train, and we all tested it together.

That is why when I say I tested again, I literally mean that I tested all of this before, came to a conclusion and definitive answer, and abolished any notion of the party-up for better drops myth.

Xiahou Mao.9701:

Forget about the “Parties get better loot” thing for a moment. Stick with the “Only the first X players to hit an enemy get loot” thing to start. Go test that, using the methods I’ve given, rather than repeatedly trying to brush it off. Get yourself a champion loot bag while doing only 2000 damage. Watch yourself miss out on champion loot bags while doing 40000 damage. See the truth for yourself. Then we can get back to talking about what effect parties have or don’t have.

I have tagged the champ warbeasts at Modniir Ulgoth in this exact fashion the day after I first got into it with you in this thread. I made it a point to be the very first person to tag one of the warbeasts, dealt about 3k dmg, and moved to the next, fought it from 70% hp to 60% hp then moved onto the last warbeast, and fought it until it died (50% hp till death).

The only champ that dropped an embroidered saddle bag was the one that I stuck with for the kill.

I 100% thought of this thread as I was doing this, because I KNEW I was not going to get loot from the first two champs, but I did so just the same in the sake of science.

Lo and behold, the very first person to tag the mob, no loot awarded because I did not participate enough. The best part is, I was in a party with players who got champ bags from the two beasts I did not get bags from.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

I have tagged the champ warbeasts at Modniir Ulgoth in this exact fashion the day after I first got into it with you in this thread. I made it a point to be the very first person to tag one of the warbeasts, dealt about 3k dmg, and moved to the next, fought it from 70% hp to 60% hp then moved onto the last warbeast, and fought it until it died (50% hp till death).

The only champ that dropped an embroidered saddle bag was the one that I stuck with for the kill.

I 100% thought of this thread as I was doing this, because I KNEW I was not going to get loot from the first two champs, but I did so just the same in the sake of science.

Lo and behold, the very first person to tag the mob, no loot awarded because I did not participate enough.

So, uh… in the time it took you to deal 3000 damage to a Warbeast, the second one you went to tag was already down to 70% health by the time you got to it? Of course you’re only going to get one champion bag out of that, you were too late to tag the other two by far if you weren’t hitting them until one was at 70% and the other was at 50%. The only issue here is that you’re confused about where your bag came from. It didn’t come from the one you killed at the end, it came from the first one you hit at the start.

If you want to get all three champion bags in that scenario, you need to make sure you tag all three of them while they’re still at 95% plus health, so that you’re one of the first people to hit each of them. Go give that a try.

(and you either need better DPS gear, or you need to better recognise which of the three champs is going to be targeted first by the zerg so you can make sure it’s the first one you tag before going off to get the ones left largely alone at the start)

Because I don’t know the order of the world boss train. I party up with randoms who do know where to go.

From my experience, being in a party increases my chances of getting credit for a kill. This does not mean that being in a party gives me better loot, though.

I tend to agree that it’s first to hit, rather than total damage. That’s why I always try to hit something first.

Xiahou Mao.9701:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

I have tagged the champ warbeasts at Modniir Ulgoth in this exact fashion the day after I first got into it with you in this thread. I made it a point to be the very first person to tag one of the warbeasts, dealt about 3k dmg, and moved to the next, fought it from 70% hp to 60% hp then moved onto the last warbeast, and fought it until it died (50% hp till death).

The only champ that dropped an embroidered saddle bag was the one that I stuck with for the kill.

I 100% thought of this thread as I was doing this, because I KNEW I was not going to get loot from the first two champs, but I did so just the same in the sake of science.

Lo and behold, the very first person to tag the mob, no loot awarded because I did not participate enough.

So, uh… in the time it took you to deal 3000 damage to a Warbeast, the second one you went to tag was already down to 70% health by the time you got to it? Of course you’re only going to get one champion bag out of that, you were too late to tag the other two by far if you weren’t hitting them until one was at 70% and the other was at 50%. The only issue here is that you’re confused about where your bag came from. It didn’t come from the one you killed at the end, it came from the first one you hit at the start.

If you want to get all three champion bags in that scenario, you need to make sure you tag all three of them while they’re still at 95% plus health, so that you’re one of the first people to hit each of them. Go give that a try.

(and you either need better DPS gear, or you need to better recognise which of the three champs is going to be targeted first by the zerg so you can make sure it’s the first one you tag before going off to get the ones left largely alone at the start)

You have a powerful imagination or simply fail at reading comprehension.

First off….. I clearly stated I was the first person to tag the mob.

Second…. The beasts are almost always very clearly separated, and not bunched on top of eachother, unless the players coordinate to pull them all together….. (which is something I have not seen since zerging Harathi Hinterlands was popular shortly after launch.)

It was VERY clear which beast dropped the champ bag.

And finally…. its funny how easily you change your opinion when I test something, specifically as you requested….. and do not get the results you want. You almost completely abandoned your argument, and said that “I need to do more dps.”

Which is what I have been saying all along!

You just cited an example where you fought the Modniir Warbeasts, and you tagged one immediately, engaged the second one when it was at 70% health, and the third one at 50% health. You got one champion loot bag from this fight. Those are the results that I’ve been saying you’d get all thread. You’re just confused about which one dropped the lone bag, apparently. Either that, or you doubled back to the same one after breaking off to tag the second, and so the one you took from 50% to 0 is the same one you initially tagged and thus got loot from.

The “you need to do more DPS” was a tongue-in-cheek remark to acknowledge you saying you did 3000 damage to the Warbeast, then went to hit the next one which was already down to 70%. I can land 3000 damage criticals on Modniir Warbeasts in Harathi Hinterlands with strong attacks, so it seems odd that you’d take so long to move from one to the other.

Yes, the enemies are separated from each other, so tagging them all might not be easy. Using a class with mobility is best, along with ranged weapons so you don’t need to get right in the face of the thing you’re hitting. Hitting all three Warbeasts or Avatars of Woe when they’re all at 95% or higher is certainly doable, and being able to do so is how you’ll get all three champ bags.

Yet another person above just weight in saying it’s first to hit rather than total damage. How many more people do you need to hear from before you at least try my method out?

For world bosses the reason is simple, Dcing, it’s easier or otherwise nearly impossible to get back into a Map you were doing say, Tequatl on if you weren’t in a party and got booted to another map, in which case you can try joining on party members still in that run.

As far as other events go, you can go with buff sharing and people saying tagging is better.

So enough reasons to get in a party and forget about it?

I do think it’s a DPS matter too, at least where champion bags are concerned. I’m pretty much there from the start and tag at once. Still, solo on a high DPS, I will usually get a champ bag for e.g. the megadestroyer – and yes, he does drop one – unless the zerg is too big. Solo on a low DPS character, I will not get a bag. Group the low DPS character with high DPS characters, and lo and behold… a bag. And this is not just once, I’ve tried this literally 100s of times. Chest credit is different, all characters seem to get it, but the champ bag system is a total mess.

Broom, I’ll suggest to you the same I’ve suggested to the others. Take your low DPS character and try to hit the boss (Megadestroyer, Svanir Shaman, Legendary Karka Queen, or whatever other one that drops loot on its corpse) quickly, then take your high DPS character and wait to engage the boss until it’s been hit by everyone else. When thief shortbow autoattacks on the Karka Queen at 100% remaining health can get the extra champ bag, but thief backstabs/heartseekers on the Karka Queen when it appeared at a different waypoint and I don’t get to engage until 95% remaining health don’t get the extra champ bag, then DPS isn’t the issue.

But it’s easy for me to say. You say you’ve had different experiences, so if you can go in and test it out knowing what you’re looking for, maybe you’ll see the patterns too.

It’s damage threshold, plain and simple.

I can’t count how many times I’ve been the first to land blows on a champ, and NOT gotten a loot, party or otherwise.

Avatar of Blight and Ulgoth are good examples of these – I’ll launch a poison volley or grenade spam before anyone else even lands hits, while everyone is focused on the first one, and not get a bag sometimes – and yes, several attacks.

I’ve tested a lot of what you’re saying Xaihou, and I’m simply not seeing the same results. Getting in a few attacks early doesn’t guarantee a bag. More often than not, I seem to screw my party out of a bag on the first target by going for another target early, than focusing the current one.

Still regardless of any mechanics: Hit the champs hard, and try to hit them asap. Partying seems to help a lot. This much is undeniable.

Also, karka queen and megadestroyer are poor test subjects to test this on: Megadestroyer disappears twice during the fight, and you can lose combat between these, potentially giving up any tagging credit. Karka Queen has two health bars, which makes it confusing there which bar you need to do the most damage to. Personally, I try to hit ASAP and tend to save large damage bursts for after the second bar pops, as she’s more vulnerable then anyway.

Halcyon.7352:

Avatar of Blight and Ulgoth are good examples of these – I’ll launch a poison volley or grenade spam before anyone else even lands hits, while everyone is focused on the first one, and not get a bag sometimes – and yes, several attacks.

That unfortunately goes against everything that I’ve tested. I can go in to fight the Avatars of Blight now and make sure I tag each one quickly with Thief shortbow auto-attacks, landing a few shots on each, and I’ll get the three champ bags despite only doing 1000-2000 damage to each individually. Whereas before I figured out how the loot system works I’d be fighting alongside the zerg using Cloak and Dagger, Backstab and Heartseeker for maximum DPS, doing 10000-20000 damage to each champ, and yet only sometimes get the champ bag. If doing ten times the damage before sometimes disqualified me from the champ bag, whereas doing the much smaller amount of damage now lets me always get it, there’s clearly something at play besides just damage.

One thing I’ll admit that I haven’t tried is using fields. You mention a poison volley, which I imagine from the context of the sentence is a grenade attack for Engineer. Perhaps an enemy spawning inside an ongoing poison field and getting a condition applied doesn’t count as tagging like direct damage does?

Also, karka queen and megadestroyer are poor test subjects to test this on: Megadestroyer disappears twice during the fight, and you can lose combat between these, potentially giving up any tagging credit. Karka Queen has two health bars, which makes it confusing there which bar you need to do the most damage to. Personally, I try to hit ASAP and tend to save large damage bursts for after the second bar pops, as she’s more vulnerable then anyway.

The beauty of testing this on the Karka Queen is that it let me learn how her double lifebar mechanics work. The first lifebar is the one that really counts. At the end of that first lifebar, when the Karka’s armour sheds and the lifebar refills, you’ll earn XP for the ‘kill’ if you managed to qualify for loot credit.

Against a Veteran Karka, you can still get loot from it if you hit it during its second lifebar as long as there isn’t too large of a zerg whaling away on it. You won’t get any XP, though, as the XP is only awarded for the first lifebar. With the Karka Queen herself, given the size of the zerg always fighting her and the way the loot credit is done, if you don’t see the XP popup after emptying her first lifebar, then you can be guaranteed that you won’t get a champion loot bag from her corpse when she finally dies no matter how much damage you do to that second health bar. Too many people will have tagged her during the fight for you to be able to get credit.

Anyway, if you can test a bit more that’d be great, especially if you can use something other than the poison fields to try to tag. Leaving a field to tag one champ while you go to personally hit another seems like a wise move with this system, but it just might not work without direct damage attached to the field. Which would be a bit sad, another way where conditions lag behind..