Guild Wars 2

Gw2 was my second mmo after Lotro (I was playing lore master there,support/crowd control/debuff you can understand what is my play style) and I experienced worse dungeon system here which are skip trash and push boss to a corner,dodge zerk,dodge zerk,dodge zerk… really no strategy…etc Whatever it is called “Holy Trinity” We need more roles,tactics out of just zerk.

Yes – I agree- let’s change the entire game for everybody because you don’t like it.

Sounds like a great plan!

Leaving dungeons out of it, old content anyhow, I would like to see more of an emphasis to healing in upcoming content.

No. Not sure why you want that back. It’s awful. Especially as dps sitting in a queue waiting and waiting for a tank or healer. It’s miserable. I mean part of me really misses being a healer. But in the end, it’s probably for the best to do away with that.

This has never been a problem with the holy trinity. Its a problem with the poor AI and mob design that cannot handle being pushed into a corner and pummeled.

Anet has done quite a bit of changes in mob fighting design over the years and made them considerably harder in more recent dungeons.

No. Go play another game.

Lets make dungeons flight simulators and we can all ride charrcopters around and pewpewpew at enemies. They can use the Super Adventure Box graphic style!

…That might actually be fun. Nevermind.

GuzziHero.2467:

No. Go play another game.

I don’t like the focus on zerk for pve but pvp in trinity is awful and Anet can create opportunity for different requirements. Just no might as well only 3 classes with 3 amulets.

Sagat.3285:

GuzziHero.2467:

No. Go play another game.

I don’t like the focus on zerk for pve but pvp in trinity is awful and Anet can create opportunity for different requirements. Just no might as well only 3 classes with 3 amulets.

Anet doesn’t even need to change the stats to get rid of zerk, they just need to revamp bosses and harder encounters. However, I doubt they will ever do it because that will require players to actually look at their skills and press some more buttons in which case many seem to find really hard.

It is not that Anet can’t make Pve more challenging. It is simply that the current MMO community is full of casuals and they can’t handle harder content therefore companies dump down the overall difficulty.

nGumball.1283:

Anet doesn’t even need to change the stats to get rid of zerk,

They don’t really need to get rid of zerk IMO. Revamping some of the content so other options compare well might not be a bad idea though.

I’ve said it before- If you want a “holy trinity”, I’m sure there are a lot of churches in your area that can give you one. But not this game,

There are games with specific roles. Instead of having this one changed, I’d prefer that you just played a game already designed with features you want.

I like the way GW 2 does professions.

What the game needs is for toughness, vitality, condi damage and healing to mean something.

Longer encounters does not necessarily mean more challenge unless that challenge also has more than insta-ganks that wipe you whatever stats you have.

I am all for adding the requirement for healing/tanking in harder encounters, but this can be done without going full Holy Trinity. There is a lot of grey area between the black of DPS-only and the white of Trinity that can and should be exploited.

The ramp-up time of most condi damage is an issue. It needs to deal maximum ticks at the time of infliction, then peter out, rather than build up. Otherwise it will always be less efficient than straight up damage. Likewise, enemies should be able to damage in ways that are not BOOM SHAKE THE ROOM insta-gank. There needs to be an opportunity for a support/healing equipped player to assist his team, provide boons and healing, whilst still being able to participate in damage to the enemy.

Surely a system exists which allows all classes and builds to be at least partially self-reliant whilst also having a role to play in group vs challenging encounters situations.

nGumball.1283:

Sagat.3285:

GuzziHero.2467:

No. Go play another game.

I don’t like the focus on zerk for pve but pvp in trinity is awful and Anet can create opportunity for different requirements. Just no might as well only 3 classes with 3 amulets.

Anet doesn’t even need to change the stats to get rid of zerk, they just need to revamp bosses and harder encounters. However, I doubt they will ever do it because that will require players to actually look at their skills and press some more buttons in which case many seem to find really hard.

It is not that Anet can’t make Pve more challenging. It is simply that the current MMO community is full of casuals and they can’t handle harder content therefore companies dump down the overall difficulty.

Maybe before enter dungeon make slots to choose for extra some two or three skills based on slot to choose tank,support or heal.

xarallei.4279:

No. Not sure why you want that back. It’s awful. Especially as dps sitting in a queue waiting and waiting for a tank or healer. It’s miserable. I mean part of me really misses being a healer. But in the end, it’s probably for the best to do away with that.

Not speaking for dungeons, but LS, open world events, Raids?, I would Like to see more of an emphasis on healing. Not in the trinity form as a player sits in the back healbotting w/a tank holding threat, but in the GW2 fashion. Fights and situations where dodge, cleanse, area avoidance, and block are just not enough, and bringing a few healing/support builds is actually beneficial.

Certain satisfaction helping out friends and players in that role.

karakurt.8690:

nGumball.1283:

Sagat.3285:

GuzziHero.2467:

No. Go play another game.

I don’t like the focus on zerk for pve but pvp in trinity is awful and Anet can create opportunity for different requirements. Just no might as well only 3 classes with 3 amulets.

Anet doesn’t even need to change the stats to get rid of zerk, they just need to revamp bosses and harder encounters. However, I doubt they will ever do it because that will require players to actually look at their skills and press some more buttons in which case many seem to find really hard.

It is not that Anet can’t make Pve more challenging. It is simply that the current MMO community is full of casuals and they can’t handle harder content therefore companies dump down the overall difficulty.

Maybe before enter dungeon make slots to choose for extra some two or three skills based on slot to choose tank,support or heal.

There is nothing stopping you from doing that now the concept of letting people play the way they want to still applies just dont join people who want to finish the content faster cause they have other commitments in life other than spending 1 hour in a dungeon attempting to kill some mob.

Easy you must invent the time travel machine and go 250 years into the past, enjoy.

DPS players are a dime-a-dozen and absolutely flood every MMO with a trinity. This is because DPS is the easiest role with the least amount of responsibility. GW2 is a game that caters to those DPS players and the last thing they want to see is a trinity where since they are as common as sand on a beach they’ll have to wait in some queue.

It’s much easier for them to say “ZOMG Zerg everything, oh wow my numb3rsz massive killed mobs ultra fast. pwned”

BlkPrince.2854:

karakurt.8690:

nGumball.1283:

Sagat.3285:

GuzziHero.2467:

No. Go play another game.

I don’t like the focus on zerk for pve but pvp in trinity is awful and Anet can create opportunity for different requirements. Just no might as well only 3 classes with 3 amulets.

Anet doesn’t even need to change the stats to get rid of zerk, they just need to revamp bosses and harder encounters. However, I doubt they will ever do it because that will require players to actually look at their skills and press some more buttons in which case many seem to find really hard.

It is not that Anet can’t make Pve more challenging. It is simply that the current MMO community is full of casuals and they can’t handle harder content therefore companies dump down the overall difficulty.

Maybe before enter dungeon make slots to choose for extra some two or three skills based on slot to choose tank,support or heal.

There is nothing stopping you from doing that now the concept of letting people play the way they want to still applies just dont join people who want to finish the content faster cause they have other commitments in life other than spending 1 hour in a dungeon attempting to kill some mob.

You know there is dungeon seller out there if not wanna spent 1 hour can do 5 mins but this was not the point.
Strategy! This game just lacks most about this in dungeons just zerk! Pretty boring gameplay for me after doing again and again.Please try to undestand me.Some will call me troll or whatever,I say no… I like this game.

karakurt.8690:

GW2 was my second mmo after Lotro and I experienced worst dungeon system here that are just skip trash and kill boss,zerk zerk zerk…

I am sure you also enjoy those looong waitings while LF Tank & Healer. No trinity all the way. If you dont like it go back to Lotro then.

Alright, I’m a zerker or valk/zerker thief with 300 healing power. If any ranger is around I heal a bunch of people for 10k if an ele is around for 6k – yay who would’ve guessed, right? Even though I’m full dps I can heal without any trinity in this game!
Suggestion: You guys look more into how this game works and then we’ll speak again.

Bring the trinity in this game or nah?

Nah.

Hell no.
As others said it so eloquently, go play another game if you don’t like this one.

karakurt.8690:

GW2 was my second mmo after Lotro and I experienced worst dungeon system here that are just skip trash and kill boss,zerk zerk zerk…

This isn’t an issue with the lack of Trinity though (since even in Trinity games when the dungeon becomes a farm rather than a challenge, you simply plow through the trash and kill the boss); this is down to dungeon, encounter and mob design.

It’s entirely possible to create engaging dungeons and encounters without needing to create roles that are the same for every dungeon.

The dark side of the Trinity was always its mandatory nature, in order to do the content at all you needed a tank and a healer.

The problem in GW2 isn’t that we don’t have the Trinity it’s that we have an AntiTrinity.
If you want to support the team as a healer or go full meat shield as a tank there is no viable option to do so. It is always better to run zerk or just cheese the mechanics. The AntiTrinity restricts freedom of play in much the same way the Trinity did, you don’t have a real choice. You can run zerker and the fight will be as easy as it can be for your skill level or you can run anything else and the fight will be torturous regardless of how good you are.

Because GW2 encounters are designed for free for all parties, allowing real tank and healer builds into the game as options would only effect players IF they were vastly better than straight up dps. Even then it would only be in the form of LFG requests like the “EXP zErk” requests that we already see, and while those can be annoying they fall firmly under the community wisdom of “Make you own party if you don’t like it.”

While I agree that it’s weird to be in a dungeon, run past all the trash, and huddle in a corner to kill the boss, making the trinity would absolutely destroy basically everything combat related in the game.
Imagine doing a bit of ps as a dps, where you have to wait for the tank npc to get aggro before engaging. Being a healer in those massive boss fights in the ls and ps would be numbly slow. And it would be really annoying to not be able to do a group event because there isn’t a healer and/or tank near by.

Can’t bring it back if it was never here.

If you want to support the team as a healer or go full meat shield as a tank there is no viable option to do so. It is always better to run zerk or just cheese the mechanics.

I can’t play my assassin in league of legends as a support, should I therefore go on their boards and complain about this?

why do you think healers or tanks being viable in a non-trinity game about active defense is a good thing? doesn’t that make the whole active defense bit redundant?

All mmo game i play have trinity; not guild war 2. Trinity give each profession support roles in party; healer, tank etc.. Guild Wars 2 not have trinity is broken; some class have trinity and some do not; xample; Elementalist, thief, warrior, engineer are trinity class and ranger, guardian, mesmer are not at all. Why also trinity is good? Trinity is good for keep game healthy and fun. Trinity keep game a little slow but not too fast. Trinity is good to help each profession take time to learn strategy and learn from mistake.

But Guild Wars 2 like karukurt say; is about zerk. Why zerk is bad for guild wars 2? Zerk do not keep game healthy and fun. Zerk make game very fast; too fast and boring. Zerk is reason for instant kill+critical attack trait. When i first join in wvw; not even join in few minute; i died in second. I did not understand how i die so fast. I ask other player and they say it was thief. Because thief is wear zerker gear and with critical traits so why i instant die.

So that is problem with zerker. It is sad like Karakurt say, zerk kill boss fast. I see in pve that and feel sad than laugh. Boss should be hard, toguh and challenge and need use strategy and learn to kill. Why are they boss if they die fast? Boss should fight for challenge; not die fast. Why are they boss if they do not have time to use strategy? I feel sad for boss who die fast. I find same problem in wvw; zerk kill player fast, player do not have time for strategy because zerker= fast kill with instant kill class.

That is why i like trinity and trinity win and zerk lose. Trinity= Challenge and Zerk= No challenge. Trinity make you think and Zerk make you go fast kill. I agree with Karakurt.

Playing zerk is a choice. We have other choices. I play dungeons with people who don’t use zerk. It takes longer and it’s not as easy but I probably have more fun.

If you go to a trinity, then the choice evaporates.

If you insist on running with people who insist in the trinity, that’s your own lookout.

Jon Peters, ArenaNet, MMO Champion Interview

Diversity

Being able to adapt to situations is something that we feel makes combat more exciting. In Guild Wars 2, the combination of weapon swapping and skill versatility give each profession the ability to adapt to combat situations and change their role. Taking too much damage as a warrior? Swap to mace and shield. A bunch of adds as an elementalist? Attune to fire. Even within single skills we try and maintain versatility. A guardian that brings Wall of Deflection or an elementalist with Swirling Aura can use them to defend allies when retreating. They can also use it to push into enemy lines, or they can cast it in a timely manner to counter a particularly dangerous enemy projectile and send the effects of that projectile back to the attacker. Being able to rotate roles and cover for other players is another piece in the puzzle to removing dependencies.

Mobility

Another important part of Guild Wars 2 combat is mobility. We felt that in order to get the dynamic and visceral feel that we wanted combat to have, players needed to be more mobile. A lot of work went into this from animation systems to animations themselves allowing skills while moving. It takes a lot of pressure off of the skill system and puts in back into movement, tactical play, and ground control—the areas where we wanted the game to be focused. Couple that with dodging arrows and double tap dodge rolling and you create a combat system that is more like a first person shooter where finding real cover, flanking and other more realistic fighting techniques find a lot more use. This again de-emphasizes the importance of roles and focuses players on what we intend, which is how their profession plays.

We’ve said this a few times in a few places but I can’t reiterate it enough:

We built this game so that they professions act as play styles, not as roles. Each profession can support, control, and do damage. We believe that this creates more dynamic combat and more distinct professions because there are more play styles than roles.

One of the best ways to explain this is with an analogy. In a first person shooter there can be a variety of weapons, from sniper rifles to rocket launchers to machine guns and shotguns. No one looks at these weapons and says, “They’re all the same, they all just do DPS.” Why should an MMO be any different?

The problem, if there is one, is that after 2.33 years the dungeon runners know every encounter by heart and can dodge in their sleep. The dungeons were hard for most people. If they aren’t now, it’s due to the practice effect. They’re still hard for someone doing them for the first time unless they’re already skilled in the combat style.

Wetpaw.3487:

xarallei.4279:

No. Not sure why you want that back. It’s awful. Especially as dps sitting in a queue waiting and waiting for a tank or healer. It’s miserable. I mean part of me really misses being a healer. But in the end, it’s probably for the best to do away with that.

Not speaking for dungeons, but LS, open world events, Raids?, I would Like to see more of an emphasis on healing. Not in the trinity form as a player sits in the back healbotting w/a tank holding threat, but in the GW2 fashion. Fights and situations where dodge, cleanse, area avoidance, and block are just not enough, and bringing a few healing/support builds is actually beneficial.

Certain satisfaction helping out friends and players in that role.

So what you are saying is that you want your healing to be required (mandatory)? That’s what it means for “dodge, cleanse, area avoidance, and block are just not enough, and bringing a few healing/support builds is actually beneficial”. That means healing is required if professions cannot survive without it “not enough”. No thank you on your back door trinity inroads. Why is it so hard to either play the game as it was designed or play a game that is designed that way instead? Is it really so important to ruin this game and make it a clone of every other game on the market….just so you don’t have to adapt to this one?

Sarabande.8260:

DPS players are a dime-a-dozen and absolutely flood every MMO with a trinity. This is because DPS is the easiest role with the least amount of responsibility. GW2 is a game that caters to those DPS players and the last thing they want to see is a trinity where since they are as common as sand on a beach they’ll have to wait in some queue.

It’s much easier for them to say “ZOMG Zerg everything, oh wow my numb3rsz massive killed mobs ultra fast. pwned”

Maybe stop to consider that players like being responsible for themselves…instead of having to depend on someone else to keep them alive. Maybe consider that players feel they are capable of following their own orders…instead of being forced to bow down to a “tank” or “healer” due to constant threat of that “tank” or “healer” rage quitting because someone didn’t bow down fast enough….then being stuck unable to complete the content because that scarce commodity is required to complete the content? Maybe it has nothing to do with being “common as sand on a beach”. Maybe it is more about actually having the same freedom to play as the wanna be healer/tank crowd. You don’t see the opposite argument on these forums…begging for anyone in clerics, nomad, soldiers, etc to be forced to bring along berserkers or assassins. Extend the same courtesy please.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Jon Peters, ArenaNet, MMO Champion Interview

Diversity

Being able to adapt to situations is something that we feel makes combat more exciting. In Guild Wars 2, the combination of weapon swapping and skill versatility give each profession the ability to adapt to combat situations and change their role. Taking too much damage as a warrior? Swap to mace and shield. A bunch of adds as an elementalist? Attune to fire. Even within single skills we try and maintain versatility. A guardian that brings Wall of Deflection or an elementalist with Swirling Aura can use them to defend allies when retreating. They can also use it to push into enemy lines, or they can cast it in a timely manner to counter a particularly dangerous enemy projectile and send the effects of that projectile back to the attacker. Being able to rotate roles and cover for other players is another piece in the puzzle to removing dependencies.

Mobility

Another important part of Guild Wars 2 combat is mobility. We felt that in order to get the dynamic and visceral feel that we wanted combat to have, players needed to be more mobile. A lot of work went into this from animation systems to animations themselves allowing skills while moving. It takes a lot of pressure off of the skill system and puts in back into movement, tactical play, and ground control—the areas where we wanted the game to be focused. Couple that with dodging arrows and double tap dodge rolling and you create a combat system that is more like a first person shooter where finding real cover, flanking and other more realistic fighting techniques find a lot more use. This again de-emphasizes the importance of roles and focuses players on what we intend, which is how their profession plays.

We’ve said this a few times in a few places but I can’t reiterate it enough:

We built this game so that they professions act as play styles, not as roles. Each profession can support, control, and do damage. We believe that this creates more dynamic combat and more distinct professions because there are more play styles than roles.

One of the best ways to explain this is with an analogy. In a first person shooter there can be a variety of weapons, from sniper rifles to rocket launchers to machine guns and shotguns. No one looks at these weapons and says, “They’re all the same, they all just do DPS.” Why should an MMO be any different?

The problem, if there is one, is that after 2.33 years the dungeon runners know every encounter by heart and can dodge in their sleep. The dungeons were hard for most people. If they aren’t now, it’s due to the practice effect. They’re still hard for someone doing them for the first time unless they’re already skilled in the combat style.

Thank you for reposting this.

GW2 was my second mmo after ROM and I experienced worst dungeon system there that are just tank trash and healers…tank tank tank

nvm, i have GW2 now

karakurt.8690:

GW2 was my second mmo after Lotro and I experienced worst dungeon system here that are just skip trash and kill boss,zerk zerk zerk…

You need to find a guild that has a playstyle that is compatible with your own. PUGs are always going to be hit or miss as far as your enjoyment of the instance goes.\

GW2 has the nicest community of players I have ever seen. I am sure you will be able to find a group of folks to play with that like to do things the same or in a similar way that you do.

nGumball.1283:

It is not that Anet can’t make Pve more challenging. It is simply that the current MMO community is full of casuals and they can’t handle harder content therefore companies dump down the overall difficulty.

The current MMO community is full of MMO players*.

The trinity exists in MMOs because the trinity works. There aren’t absurd queue times, even as DPS. I guarantee if you’re worth your DPS in a game like WoW you’ll get picked for a random queue pretty quickly.

“Dumbing down” the difficulty of Guild Wars 2 happens because it’s a completely new concept, one that has never actually been applied before. A concept of passive support and aggressive pressure. The spec system will likely to fix most issues associated with half-assing such a wonderful concept.

GW2 combat is only a new concept to MMO games.
Go play Borderland for example and you’ll have the same kind of combat idea.
Damage, Control and Support. Where everyone do lots of damage along with some support and control. Class like Soldier are better with support while other class like Siren are better with control but in the end both do lots of damage because that’s what gets rid of enemies HP.

Technically GW2 shouldn’t have stats at all.
Although having defensive stats allow anet to keep their promise that everyone would be able to play all content regardless of their personal skills.

Trinity is still in the Matrix. Oh my bad, may she rest in piece she passed away in the 3rd movie.

karakurt.8690:

GW2 was my second mmo after Lotro and I experienced worst dungeon system here that are just skip trash and kill boss,zerk zerk zerk…

While I too hate the zerg mentality I believe that can be fixed with more strategic encounters and better boss mechanics. I for one am glad the trinity is dead, I hated playing whack-a-mole with red bars.

If you miss the trinity go to wvw. There we have them all.

Bring trinity back from what? The dead? GW2 never had a trinity so I’m not sure where you want it back from.

They really should have a dedicated forum for these threads.

nGumball.1283:

Sagat.3285:

GuzziHero.2467:

No. Go play another game.

I don’t like the focus on zerk for pve but pvp in trinity is awful and Anet can create opportunity for different requirements. Just no might as well only 3 classes with 3 amulets.

Anet doesn’t even need to change the stats to get rid of zerk, they just need to revamp bosses and harder encounters. However, I doubt they will ever do it because that will require players to actually look at their skills and press some more buttons in which case many seem to find really hard.

It is not that Anet can’t make Pve more challenging. It is simply that the current MMO community is full of casuals and they can’t handle harder content therefore companies dump down the overall difficulty.

Wow.

This might be one of the most intelligent posts I’ve read on these forums in ages. Not even being sarcastic here.

(y)

So OP, you played one other MMO that happened to have this so called ‘trinity’, and you think that somehow because this game does not have it, it’s bad?

That’s like saying Battlefield is a bad FPS game because it has tactical use of military vehicles while Call of Duty is superior because it doesn’t. Your whole thing here is entirely subjective and gives zero reasons for any change. Simply saying “That other game has this, so this game sucks because it doesn’t have that” is cause for your post to be completely overlooked and dismissed.

Do research, bring up valid points, give reasons, show ArenaNet WHY they should consider such an unnecessary game mechanic. ArenaNet has already given PLENTY of reasons not to, so you have your work cut out for you.

Ball is in your court.

As for the rest of you, play whatever you want. If you don’t like zerker, don’t play zerker. It’s so simple. If you want to play a support role, by all means play it and have fun. Who gives a kitten what other players think? They didn’t pay for your copy of the game. Play whatever the hell you want.

karakurt.8690:

GW2 was my second mmo after Lotro and I experienced worst dungeon system here that are just skip trash and kill boss,zerk zerk zerk…

Actually skipping trash and “less QQ more Pew Pew” are some of the things I remember most vividly from my WoW days.

I have fond memories of LORTO but waiting for heavy or minstrel is not one of them. It was not like a warden or champ could not cover most of tanking neck I knew a guild mate who could do a good tank on a rune-keeper. But mind set was guard for tank and minstrel for heals with everyone else damage.
Also I left when max was 70 and could solo most of the dungeons on my champ due to them not scaling.

They should make more content akin to LS events during LA siege, more special requirements, and Dry Top + Silverwastes really do show how much a healer is worth. Try running valkyrie banner regen warrior or spirit regen ranger or just a zerk ele with aquatic benevolence and monk runes, you gonna see lots of green numbers. And while it is not strictly necessary with healers, they impact the game a lot. Enemies like the queen in dry top that does massive damage to many players clearly demonstrate how much sustainability you add to a zerg with just a handful of players healing.

Sarabande.8260:

DPS players are a dime-a-dozen and absolutely flood every MMO with a trinity. This is because DPS is the easiest role with the least amount of responsibility. GW2 is a game that caters to those DPS players and the last thing they want to see is a trinity where since they are as common as sand on a beach they’ll have to wait in some queue.

It’s much easier for them to say “ZOMG Zerg everything, oh wow my numb3rsz massive killed mobs ultra fast. pwned”

I’d rather have this “dps fest” in which each player is responsible for his own actions and one individual’s success or failure isn’t pivotal to the success of the group.

It’s better than your tank/healer failing halfway through a run and wiping everyone.

GameVeight.2745:

You can run zerker and the fight will be as easy as it can be for your skill level or you can run anything else and the fight will be torturous regardless of how good you are.

If you run zerker the fight is harder for any skill level.
If you’re skilled enough you will be able to survive it as zerker. If not you can make the fight easier by wearing tanky gear which will create a bigger margin of error and allow you to make more mistakes.