Guild Wars 2

The game is too far down the road to bring back the holy-trinity, but there should be the option to heal and heal only.

im for holly trinity since day one man i know it will make the game more fun to play and there are some people that are not for that i can understand them and i can understand the majority not playing this game since lunch cuz the pve is dumb my friend list is empty cuz guess what they play wow not cuz of gear trade mill cuz of the extreme dumb pve style kill fast nothing else dps dps shallow dungeons skipp rush boss to get 1 gold so so sad also the best thing is how kitten the AI IS EXTREME BAD

You guys know this game was advertised to not have the holy trinity, right?

evilunderling.9265:

phys.7689:

and i was specifically commenting on what you were saying about healing being complex because of these variables, which are missing regardless to healing existing or not.
what im trying to say is, the trinity isnt what leads to these poor fights, its just poorly designed fights in general.

I mostly agree. I was specifically responding to the people who regard healing as just a pointless exercise in watching red bars.

Consider this sort of thing:

• Twintania marks the dragoon for a fireball. The white mage knows who’s going to take the hit, so she targets and stacks on the dragoon (fireball does split damage, so this prevents her teammate from being one-shotted), pops Surecast (otherwise, the fireball would interrupt her heal), and begins casting Cure III (a big, expensive TAoE heal) when Twintania turns to cast the fireball.
• Twintania’s Death Sentence attack is up. The off-tank anticipates it, and provokes her, causing her to change targets and hit him with the incoming heal debuff instead of placing it on the main tank. The white mage sees what’s happening, and casts regen on the off-tank as Twintania begins her death sentence cast, circumventing the debuff.

Now compare it to this:

• The guardian, ranging a boss, sees a tell for something like Dagger Storm. She runs towards the boss and pops shield of absorption. The rest of the group realises what’s happening and stacks on her for defence from the projectiles.

The thought process isn’t actually different, is it? One thing we definitely didn’t gain from abandoning the trinity is some new, proactive combat paradigm.

Note that none of these examples are strictly how groups do things.

i get what you are saying, and yes ffxiv has way better designed encounters, but they have skills with similar benefits/anticipation in theory in this game, but reality is its never needed.

monster has dangerous aoe attacks, guardian could give aegis to everybody then mesmer follows blocking another attack by using signet of inspiration.

or two big aoes hit team saves blast finishers for when this happens, and ele throws out a water field which they blast back up to full.

or ranger places a healing circle just to the left of the monster so when people need heals they blast over there, the right is reserved for might stacks.

the possibilities are there, just the fights themsewlves arent designed to make you use your classes potentials too the fullest.

not disagreeing with you here, just adding that its most the encounters themselves, and not the toolbox of abilities.

also doesnt help that they rather negate player skills rather than let them be used. Like blind on a boss is basically a joke.

Harper.4173:

Yes – I agree- let’s change the entire game for everybody because you don’t like it.

Sounds like a great plan!

Actually the OPs assessment of the game is accurate. Granted this whole games mechanics are based on no trinity and changing it would probably alienate what is left of it’s community. However Zerking and dodging is about as challenging as the content gets in the game.

Imagine: one day you walk in kesses hill with legendary weapon and full gear of ascended gear, a level 20 player come to you asking for help on a champ event.

He: Did you kill that champ before?
You: Yes, i did countless of time, what’s up?

He: Would you help me with the champ?
You: No i can’t….

He: Why?
You: Because I can’t take 1 hit from him.

He: But you have full ascended armor, max level….
You: I am not a tank, we need a tank seriously…

He: You have active defense skill…. don’t you?
You: Yes I can take couple hits but we still 1 healer short, you know the burst heal…

He: But you said you have killed him countless of time, you even have legendary…
You: Well, I was, but I am no longer able to do so since Trinity is reintroduced… We need a tank and a healer now.

He: So what am i going to do?
You: Wait here, until a tank and a healer show up, please excuse me.

What is zerking suppose to mean?…

If only anet made the dungeon so much harder than people would actually appreciate the properly played zerker guardian keeping them alive. Just be glad that the dungeon are so kitten easy that your average pug who doesn’t know how to effeciently do the run can succeed. Even the so called zerker pug party you have clueless people who don’t even know how to play their class properly.

This game has the foundation for an epic action combat in the line with dark souls. Actively fighting and dodging attacks, one mistimed dodge and half if nore more of a zerker’s life is gone. Now all Anet needs to do is make all content as challenging as dark souls, think lupicus before people started finding out exploits for him.

Also other gear stat should be irrelevant because they go against the action combat, allowing people to passive tank or heal fights, even a person in knight gear is noticeably more survival than a zerk in alot of situation, it cheapens the experience.

I had a suggestion to nerf ressing.

One player ressing another player will see no change. However, for each additional player, ressing heals 50% less.

This way, healing power will be useful. It won’t be mandatory for super good zerker groups, but it will be very helpful in mediocre pugs.

karakurt.8690:

Gw2 was my second mmo after Lotro (I was playing lore master there,support/crowd control/debuff you can understand what is my play style) and I experienced worse dungeon system here which are skip trash and push boss to a corner,dodge zerk,dodge zerk,dodge zerk… really no strategy…etc Whatever it is called “Holy Trinity” We need more roles,tactics out of just zerk.

Out of curiosity, what do you mean, “bring back” the trinity? We never had it in the first place.

Aidan Savage.2078:

karakurt.8690:

Gw2 was my second mmo after Lotro (I was playing lore master there,support/crowd control/debuff you can understand what is my play style) and I experienced worse dungeon system here which are skip trash and push boss to a corner,dodge zerk,dodge zerk,dodge zerk… really no strategy…etc Whatever it is called “Holy Trinity” We need more roles,tactics out of just zerk.

Out of curiosity, what do you mean, “bring back” the trinity? We never had it in the first place.

Some (will) say it’s all about marketing.As a mesmer I say Shatter!

No.
Stop these threads.
If you don’t like it, you have tons of copy and paste options out there.
But this is not one of them.

Unloveableone.6082:

No.
Stop these threads.
If you don’t like it, you have tons of copy and paste options out there.
But this is not one of them.

Time to bookmark this thread to recall later when Anet makes certain roles like healing have more emphasis, along side “no vertical gear grind, go play WoW” Ascended, and “We have WP’s go play Archeage/WoW if you want mounts” Hang Gliders threads.

Wetpaw.3487:

Unloveableone.6082:

No.
Stop these threads.
If you don’t like it, you have tons of copy and paste options out there.
But this is not one of them.

Time to bookmark this thread to recall later when Anet makes certain roles like healing have more emphasis, along side “no vertical gear grind, go play WoW” Ascended, and “We have WP’s go play Archeage/WoW if you want mounts” Hang Gliders threads.

Yes,I am also curious.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Elder Angelus.6298:

We should still have tanks, healers, and damagers because different people like the different styles. Variety is good!

Again…

Jon Peters; ArenaNet; MMO Champion Interview; 2/2012

We built this game so that the professions act as play styles, not as roles. Each profession can support, control, and do damage. We believe that this creates more dynamic combat and more distinct professions because there are more play styles than roles.

That was what was intended. It’s exactly what we have. Not 3 roles, 8 professions. Within those professions, there is a also versatility in traits and utility skills, which can be switched out from encounter to encounter.

You want to play tanks n’ healers? Wooden Potatoes has videos showing a 22K-group-healing-every-15-seconds build and a high armor, high sustain warrior build. Slot those, grab three ranged DPS and have at it. This game system gives the freedom for both that and high efficiency play. You can play trinity right now.

Yet, you want to throw away that freedom and make everyone play trinity. That’s what you’re really asking for. Why? So you can get into the PuG versions of speed runs with those builds. These complaints are essentially asking ANet to throw away one of the game’s core design features so you don’t have to type anything in the LFG and don’t have to make any effort to find the like-minded.

No, thanks.

I want to comment; all what you write is right. But you forget other part; zerk. Instead of write trinity party, put zerk in place. I read a lot of past and present forum and post and find, zerk being more problematic than non zerk;trinity party. I do not find non zerk; trinity forum and post in guild wars 2 forum being problem but zerk.

You say Lfg tool; i see all time “zerk only-speed run”, “no zerk-gtfo” ; is ok? Even in wvw; even some party in wvw in my server, will have only zerk party. You say freedom? Do other no zerk have freedom? So is ok for zerk only to have freedom to play and not zerk?

I see 2 problem in guild wars 2 game design mode ; Zerk and Non Zerk.

Zerk= too much damage: Offense
non zerk= too much heal; Defense

So question is, how to balance these 2 game design mode? These 2 game design mode is source of problem.

That is why Trinity is only choice balance game design mode to balance them. But do each guild wars 2 profession; class design are trinity game design? No! but was guild wars 2 suppose be trinity game design mode? Yes. This was why guild wars 2 was different mmo because no Trinity. All profession;class are Trinity, This is even main problem because it is confusing.

Should every profession;class be Trinity? Yes but Warrior, Thief, Engineer and Elementalist class only are Trinity. This is why other class; ranger, guardian and mesmer complain because they are correct. Complain because there is problem, they are not Trinity game design like them. This is why non trinity class see Thief, Enginner, Elementalist and Warrior be Op.

If all have same trinity; there would be no problem in game. No problem in party, no problem in Offense and Defense game design; every class will be Powerful and be Strong. Same Trinity be for pve boss.

Someone in guild say, “if all class are Op, there would be no complain about whose class is Op or not; because they all are”, i laugh lol" i find funny but guild player is correct.

The guild player say, “the problem really is about the Trinity Class design vs the non-Trinity class design and that arena need to address it very soon because it is dividing the community”

One of the many reasons ppl play this game is that they dont like the trinity system.Whats the point to ask for trinity in gw2?Its like someone to go on lotro forums and make a thread just to say remove trinity.No sense at all.

I just love these people who want more diversity but are against the implementation of PvE content where Healing Power/Toughness matters.
“No Tanks!” “No Healers” “No Berserkers!” “No Roles!” “Nerf Healing Power” “Nerf Toughness”
So where does it leaves us?

evilunderling.9265:

As I just said, despite what the OP said, this thread isn’t really about bringing back the holy trinity and likewise, the nerfzerker threads aren’t really about nerfing zerker.

Your post is like saying that someone with mesothelioma must be just fine because some random dude off the street with no medical training said that it was emphysema.

D_f_q you smoking? That comparison is so far off it’s not … Really, whatchu smoking? Did you read the thread title or the OP? That’s exactly what it’s about. Mod’s need an auto-close macro for these kinds of threads.

but but….the trinity is already in GW2……
warrior, ele, guardian……

karakurt.8690:

Gw2 was my second mmo after Lotro (I was playing lore master there,support/crowd control/debuff you can understand what is my play style) and I experienced worse dungeon system here which are skip trash and push boss to a corner,dodge zerk,dodge zerk,dodge zerk… really no strategy…etc Whatever it is called “Holy Trinity” We need more roles,tactics out of just zerk.

No. Just, no.

The fact dungeons are underwhelming has nothing to do with the absence of a holy trinity, just with the developer’s lazy design (sorry, but it’s lazy: a boss that just stands there doing nothing for 10 minutes is as lazy as it comes).

If we had the trinity, dungeons would still be terrible, but only with the trinity thrown in.

What you really want is better dungeons. That can be done without changing one of the pilars of design for this game.

This thread has gone in two directions again:
1) PHIW being excluded from zerk only groups – they are not good enough, cannot use active defenses (can’t recognise and don’t want to that zerker groups use these) , don’t want to trait up in an optimal way (weapons,food,utils,traits) don’t understand there professions full potential and will protest until they are blue in the face.
OR
Just want to have good runs and be carried by others (eg zerkers)- and can’t be asked to form a PHIW group running what the hell you want and will protest until they are blue in the face.
OR
Don’t want to be told what to run and don’t want to learn from others – and will protest until they are blue in the face.
2) I cannot understand GW2 trinity (damage,support and control)- which all professions can do and want the (heal,DPS and tank)- cause that is all I understand from years of playing other MMOs. They will protest that GW2 is all wrong and needs to be changed until they are blue in the face.

If you fit any of the above- I hear that the smurfs 3 are looking for more actors.
As you’re blue in the face already you could land the star role !

The monster design and AI is pretty terrible or non existent, that is the core problem for the lack of diversity when it comes to armor.
But of course, Arena Net knows that most people would complain if they were to increase the difficulty – make monsters hit harder or make them dynamic.
Look at the Mai Trin pre nerf – she 2 hit you as a Light armor wearer if you were using Zerk armor. And what happened – people complained and Mai was nerfed, and so we continue to face roll her spamming 1 11 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 every day withour caring for anything (of course you need to know how to dodge).

What they should consider doing is synergizing healing and boons application more so that spec’cing into a full support build is more viable. It’s already approaching viable on the Guardian but not really any other professions. Engineer, Elementalist, and maybe Ranger could make great full support professions with the right options.

I admit that there are times that I miss playing a dedicated healing class, but I really don’t think the trinity is right for GW2. I mean, the entire game and it’s skill system and balance have been specifically designed around the concept of not needing the trinity. I think to try to shoehorn it in now would have disastrous results.

I like the holy trinity in the games that are made to support it. And when I want to be a healer, I’ll just play one of those games. But I really think GW2 is fine without it.

While I absolutely agree that they have 0 strategy in this game and everything is simply a zerg fest (see my posts on what’s wrong with the PVE gameplay balance and combat) a full on trinity would cause more trouble. In the other title I’m playing right now while waiting for the Xpansion details there’s a serious issue in the LFG tool when DPS because there are so many DPS waiting to get into Que.

I’d say that they’d need a system more like NWO I call it lovingly Trinity Lite because it doesn’t force the trinity on anyone but allows the game to be played that what which basically enhances the gameplay dramatically. Trinity lite actually allows the Devs to monitor the condition of the fights and they care about exploits like pushing bosses, so in those scenarios these exploitative Zerker maneuvers would instantly be illegal and the dynamic of the dungeoneer party system would change. If they actually did something about Zerker builds on gear and made them less effective like they did to CC and to Condition damage they’d have a completely new game dynamic overnight and I think it would be a major improvement because of the type of snake like people we have controlling the dungeon scene right now (you know the kind that are ugly to other players at the drop of a hat) that never helps the community when the devs let this kind of stuff go like that.

It’ll be easier to make a new game for trinity than changing GW2.
And that new game should not have its focus on PVP.
Only AI follows tanker to hit.

sorudo.9054:

but but….the trinity is already in GW2……
warrior, ele, guardian……

If you are a pug that need a guardian to babysit him ya. Otherwise you bring the profession you need to a particular place, most of the time its a thief, some time its a mesmer, on some occasion a guardian, etc.

Nick.6972:

I just love these people who want more diversity but are against the implementation of PvE content where Healing Power/Toughness matters.
“No Tanks!” “No Healers” “No Berserkers!” “No Roles!” “Nerf Healing Power” “Nerf Toughness”
So where does it leaves us?

The problem is not making toughness/healing more viable. The problem is where to stop. You can boost toughness and healing more if you want, zerker will still be the way to go since active defense will alway be better than defensive stats.

If you push it too far and healing/toughness become better than active defence, then you get back into a Holy Trinity, which we do not want. This game is more than 2 years old and its been 2 years of ppl coming into the forum and trying to find a way out of this without succeed. If someone found a way to keep active defence, not getting back to the holy trinity AND healing power/toughness being part of an optimized build then most ppl would agree with the idea. But I really really don’t think that this will be possible.

It always push too much emphasis on passive defense or bring back specific role that you need to wait for in LFG (aka same problem as the trinity), or healing power/toughness is not the optimized choice (meaning just like now).

actually the holly trinity wont help with gw2 dungeons.

Its not the classes that have a problem its the dungeons .Dungeons just work as they work….and they dont work as a “traditional mmo with holly trinity” …

and if we had a dedicated tank,and a healer, people will still go full 5x DPS classes cause nothing changed how dungeon works! You still have mobs ,elites and bosses that hit like the hype train we are all on right now no mater how good your defense is. We still have mobs that are confused on who has the more aggro in the party, and we still have bosses that can be just power nuked in a corner.

And their slooow atacks are meaningless,and their big attacks can be just dodged away

karakurt.8690:

Gw2 was my second mmo after Lotro (I was playing lore master there,support/crowd control/debuff you can understand what is my play style) and I experienced worse dungeon system here which are skip trash and push boss to a corner,dodge zerk,dodge zerk,dodge zerk… really no strategy…etc Whatever it is called “Holy Trinity” We need more roles,tactics out of just zerk.

Traditional raids/dungeons are just as routine imo as GW2’s, except that they require more precise execution:

• GW2: skip trash->corner boss->stack+dodge -> repeat
• Traditional: wait for team to assemble -> reject the inexperienced -> wait for monk to return from phone call -> enter instance -> move to designated spot -> tank the mobs -> heal the tank -> burn the boss -> repeat

What both systems have in common is that PvE becomes predictable with repetition. GW2’s Fractals of the Mists solves some of this, by allowing 50 levels of difficulty and offering some randomness, but even it becomes routine after a while. Bethesda’s Elder Scrolls similar introduces some randomness into which encounters you’ll find in its game.

But in the end, it’s a problem inherent to player-vs-environment, because by necessity, balanced, computer-generated instances are static relative to our imagination. If ANet is going to deliver more diverse dungeon runs, they either have to commit resources to updating/adding runs every 6 months or figuring out a way to extend the FotM system.

tl;dr this isn’t about Trinity vs non-Trinity, it’s about static vs dynamic instances.

thefantasticg.3984:

D_f_q you smoking? That comparison is so far off it’s not … Really, whatchu smoking? Did you read the thread title or the OP? That’s exactly what it’s about. Mod’s need an auto-close macro for these kinds of threads.

The OP might be wrong about what the problem is or how to fix it, but that doesn’t mean that there is nothing wrong. Threads like this are about the problem, not about what the OP says the problem is or how the OP thinks it should be fixed.

And either way, they don’t stop having value just because you don’t like them, either.

Just no. I like GW2 Playstyle and I don’t like being pushed in one of 3 roles with no things in between. There are enough games like this already around.

DarkSyze.8627:

I want to comment; all what you write is right. But you forget other part; zerk. Instead of write trinity party, put zerk in place. I read a lot of past and present forum and post and find, zerk being more problematic than non zerk;trinity party. I do not find non zerk; trinity forum and post in guild wars 2 forum being problem but zerk.

You say Lfg tool; i see all time “zerk only-speed run”, “no zerk-gtfo” ; is ok? Even in wvw; even some party in wvw in my server, will have only zerk party. You say freedom? Do other no zerk have freedom? So is ok for zerk only to have freedom to play and not zerk?

In trinity games, who imposes the trinity? The developer does, via game design. In GW2, who imposes gear and build restrictions? Players do. In those trinity games, there are similar, player-imposed restrictions. DPS classes are only allowed to play the accepted build for their class. Tanks and healers generally get a pass, except when they mess up and the group wipes — because it’s either the tank or the healer’s fault.

What stops you from starting a group with no restrictions? That’s the freedom I want to preserve, not the idea that a player can get into any group and play with anyone at any time with no effort on their part. The latter is not even an attainable goal.

A thing worth remembering, of course, is that skipping trash is something that GW2 does well.

It’s actually a part of every MMO, and trinity MMOs can actually make it easier than breathing for most players in a group — just have a tank perform a sacrifice pull and kite dozens of mobs out of the way of the rest of the group.

Compare and contrast GW2, where you usually have to do at least some work to skip past trash. It actually makes more sense to go further, make this into the default approach to dungeons, rather than having it be a potential way to optimise fun out of the game.

These threads always make me wonder if the OPs would go to a shopping center with McDonalds, Burger King, Wendys, and Subway, go to the Subway, order a sandwich, and tell the owners, “Sandwiches are okay, but what would be really good is if you sold hamburgers… and french fries…. and maybe chicken nuggets. Yeah, Subway is pretty good, but if you sold hamburgers, and french fries, and chicken nuggets then you’d really have something great.”

DavidH.7380:

These threads always make me wonder if the OPs would go to a shopping center with McDonalds, Burger King, Wendys, and Subway, go to the Subway, order a sandwich, and tell the owners, “Sandwiches are okay, but what would be really good is if you sold hamburgers… and french fries…. and maybe chicken nuggets. Yeah, Subway is pretty good, but if you sold hamburgers, and french fries, and chicken nuggets then you’d really have something great.”

Lol spot on

GuzziHero.2467:

What the game needs is for toughness, vitality, condi damage and healing to mean something.

Longer encounters does not necessarily mean more challenge unless that challenge also has more than insta-ganks that wipe you whatever stats you have.

I am all for adding the requirement for healing/tanking in harder encounters, but this can be done without going full Holy Trinity. There is a lot of grey area between the black of DPS-only and the white of Trinity that can and should be exploited.

The ramp-up time of most condi damage is an issue. It needs to deal maximum ticks at the time of infliction, then peter out, rather than build up. Otherwise it will always be less efficient than straight up damage. Likewise, enemies should be able to damage in ways that are not BOOM SHAKE THE ROOM insta-gank. There needs to be an opportunity for a support/healing equipped player to assist his team, provide boons and healing, whilst still being able to participate in damage to the enemy.

Surely a system exists which allows all classes and builds to be at least partially self-reliant whilst also having a role to play in group vs challenging encounters situations.

These stats already do mean something, though. Have you paid attention to WvW or sPvP?

Or just noted the ridiculous of how much mitigation actually exists when running a true tank?

Conditions can’t be reworked that way. Duration would be even more overpowered than it currently is, and the wait between applications would need to be increased by a factor of something like 20 to make builds not just be blatantly overpowered.

Conditions deal less DPS than berserker builds currently only because of stack capping. In sinister gear, a condition user depending on build may and likely will out-damage that of a berserker player. Any other combination must and rightfully will do lower damage than berserker on the basis that all other condition damage sets have a defensive attribute.

The content for GW2 is explicitly designed to allow for any group composition to beat any content with enough skill such that there are no waiting queues to play/beat content. This is a core principle of their game design and why we do not have any kind of trinity. The only way to get “roles” is to force a particular class/build on any given group – which is exactly the opposite of their design intentions/why many people still play this game – or to allow for supportive players to net speed of completion increases in PvE.

Thing is, the meta will always rule something out in optimized play focusing on speed runs. The only way to include diverse parties in a competitive meta is to either force a trinity or to reach true game balance, which is impossible.

The bottom line is that if you want to play in an optimized setting in any game, it’s likely you’re going to be do something you enjoy less than something else, so why then bother to create a forced trinity which makes getting into the game content slower and more painful?

Non-speed groups usually don’t care, anyways. For those who complain, look at LFG. I’ve gone into CoF’s explorable paths under-leveled and in green gear with no build on multiple alts and have not been kicked from almost every group I’ve joined.

The meta is player-created based upon speed of completion. The composition of the meta is arbitrary, for if someone discovers a faster way, that will be adopted to the meta, and so on.

DavidH.7380:

These threads always make me wonder if the OPs would go to a shopping center with McDonalds, Burger King, Wendys, and Subway, go to the Subway, order a sandwich, and tell the owners, “Sandwiches are okay, but what would be really good is if you sold hamburgers… and french fries…. and maybe chicken nuggets. Yeah, Subway is pretty good, but if you sold hamburgers, and french fries, and chicken nuggets then you’d really have something great.”

Hahaha good one but we have shish kebab here rules all

Dont bother lad. Anet wont TOTALLY care for players…not even slightly.
In the past years the players that had the hopes up for a good game after Gw1, got so dissapointed, and ill used by Anet, they kept making posts, Constructive ideas, made carefull built up step by step so they please all sides, and what did Anet do? GIVE A kitten!
In the past years players prayed to atleast get some minor content, like weapons, or ATLEAST PROMISED things like guild halls, but no…..
Those things could have save atleast a bit of face for Anet, after SO TERRIBLY FAILING with this incredibly crappy combat.
I could write a book on what the problems are, but let me summ it up :

1, Its boring since there are no combat roles, you cant costumize your gameplay AT ALL. Wont matter what class you play, it feels almost the same. Its actually making the game less rpg then other mmo-s. And its funny since you promised it will be MORE of an rpg then other mmo-s.
You promised, that we can do it all, but in reality you cant do ANY of it. Since you took them all away. How can TAKING be more? (unless its extremely complex and is more of a problem then good…its not the case here)
Not to mention FAVORITISM is not on the same level its WORSE then in other mmo-s. It didnt fix LFG ing…its TERRIBLE in the game.
I would rather wait 10 min more for a “healer” then have a kitten to the core combat system.

I mean for kitten sake, look at Tera…its a c category game, and is still more successfull, since it has a really good combat part.

2, Its dodge or “die”. Its simple as that…thats combat….Spot the 0.3 sec cast hand gesture in the 2 billion firestorms, and dodge it. If you cant you get downed, and thats all you do is…run and get downed ppl up….Kills the whole tactical sense of the game.
I would let ppl take 2-3 hits instead of instagibbing them, and remove downed state. . . .It would make heals to have atleast a MINOR sense even if there is no trinity…BUT NO ANET GIVES A kitten on bothering or admiting how kitten combat is.

These are only the tips of the ice berg….but fanatic fans wont admit it….I was once one…in Gw1….sorry but Gw2 is just kitten as it is, and mostly thx to the terrible design…Trinity could fix it…but tards wont admit it..

Go play GW1 if you want trinity !

If you want a different game play GW2.

Nekroseth.5186:

I could write a book on what the problems are, but let me summ it up :

1, Its boring since there are no combat roles, you cant costumize your gameplay AT ALL. Wont matter what class you play, it feels almost the same. Its actually making the game less rpg then other mmo-s. And its funny since you promised it will be MORE of an rpg then other mmo-s.
You promised, that we can do it all, but in reality you cant do ANY of it. Since you took them all away. How can TAKING be more? (unless its extremely complex and is more of a problem then good…its not the case here)
Not to mention FAVORITISM is not on the same level its WORSE then in other mmo-s. It didnt fix LFG ing…its TERRIBLE in the game.
I would rather wait 10 min more for a “healer” then have a kitten to the core combat system.

I mean for kitten sake, look at Tera…its a c category game, and is still more successfull, since it has a really good combat part.

2, Its dodge or “die”. Its simple as that…thats combat….Spot the 0.3 sec cast hand gesture in the 2 billion firestorms, and dodge it. If you cant you get downed, and thats all you do is…run and get downed ppl up….Kills the whole tactical sense of the game.
I would let ppl take 2-3 hits instead of instagibbing them, and remove downed state. . . .It would make heals to have atleast a MINOR sense even if there is no trinity…BUT NO ANET GIVES A kitten on bothering or admiting how kitten combat is.

These are only the tips of the ice berg….but fanatic fans wont admit it….I was once one…in Gw1….sorry but Gw2 is just kitten as it is, and mostly thx to the terrible design…Trinity could fix it…but tards wont admit it..

Except the customization is there. People just don’t make up their own builds. The community in MMO’s these days consists of too many people demanding for diversity while simultanously googling the most min-maxed and powerful builds possible. This problem has to do with the community and general communication in these games; theorycrafters optimize a build or class or stratgy, it catches on, and a meta happens. Before I made my build, I never asked for help, because I took the direction I wanted my character to go in, and was always looking for improvement.

No metagame will change my pride in my character or build because I’m the one who invented it. There are a lot of people running different builds than me, and others do. I created my own diversity for a long time. Don’t be a sheep, and it doesn’t matter.

Tell me, have you ever looked up a build or strategy? Now imagine you never did, or recall a time before you did. Did it change the way you played or viewed the game? Did it change the way you viewed your character as unique?

The trinity – the meta – whatever it may be – it’s all conceptual, and it will always exist.
The trinity itself is a meta. It’s just one forced upon by the developers instead of the players. If you time-gate all dungeons such that each segment acted a a wave-survival area, the berserker meta would be dead, since dungeon completion time would be fixed and thus DPS not necessary. Or more fights where glass dies instantly and constantly like Teq and the meta evolves into tankier styles. The same with WvW.

Continued below…

Continued from above…

The trinity does not solve any metagame existence problems. This is a fact, since the trinity is an optimization strategy as all metagame strategies are. All it does is force one upon the players and make content slower to do since it requires certain classes, builds, and gear combinations to allow for the completion of content.

This is why, and why it will always be, that there is more diversity in say, GW2, than a game like LOTRO; each class may still build DPS and be in a party; the party still is equally diverse as a game with a DPS-tank-healer trinity as long as the party in GW2 has more than two different classes in it. Why? Because your LOTRO party still only has three different styles/builds, as those builds and styles are tied to class, and there’s no room for variance. At least there is further variance/optimization available by replacing classes within that party in GW2.

There will always exist one optimization strategy. Be it a dual-healer + tank + ranged DPS + melee DPS in a forced-trinity game like LOTRO, or 5 DPS of one class like in GW2; it doesn’t matter. True game balance is impossible and subsequently numbers can and will be run to determine the best possible course of action. The only reason we’re not there yet is because of limitations in computing power and slight variances of response time due to human nature and technological limitations such as latency issues and variations between physical hardware.

There will always be a meta people disagree with. This game decided to cater to those who disagree with the traditional trinity. Don’t like it? Look elsewhere or find people who don’t care if you don’t play using a metagame strategy. And trust me, it’s not hard to do.

Also, TERA is less successful than GW2. Your statement about it being more “successful” lacks context in all regards and is based only upon your statement that you prefer its style better.

I think someone mentioned it before…
Most zerk specs are zerk AND support. You know.

Aegis
Banners
Traits
Might stacking
Utilities
etc…

There’s more to the zerk spec than just damage. It requires setting up the best conditions to output as much damage as possible. Which actually includes support, if you didn’t see it the first time.