Guild Wars 2

I’m recalling on this thread on reddit and comments under it.
It’s alarming what environment this train creates. And the majority of new player is introduced to it. It’s horrible. And also discourages new players from staying in the game.

Please, double or triple the respawn times of the farmed champions/events in Queensdale to purge the environment in this map.

Read the post on reddit please.

But Reddit is a terrible place, even worse than these forums.

Also thread # 969857865 Re: Queensdale Champ Train

You know, if you don’t like the Queensdale train, there are 4 other starter zones you could level in.

The problem is people are being toxic in a starter area for the most common race.
New players get impression this is what GW2 is about.

It takes up a tiny fraction of one of several starter maps.

It is unlikely that new players are going to be targeting those champs anyway. You can clear the map and level just fine without getting involved in the train.

The train allows new players the opportunity to level, gain loot and gain karma.

It also means that they get to see there are actually other people in the game, as opposed to it being a wasteland, which it would be without the train and the Behe.

If anything, many will probably be disappointed that when they move out of the zone there are no other trains and pretty much no other people, until you hit the more “endgame” zones.

Instead of nerfing/getting rid of the QD champ train, they should be adding more into the game on other maps.

And they’ll just move on to the next best place to zerg!

The problem isn’t the zerg train. The problem is the lack of incentive to do anything else.

If they made the rewards for doing other things greater, the zerg train would spread out. And that’s what should be done.

No need to go to reddit, it’s already been suggested right here on these forums and discussed several times.

There are some really terrifying stories about the impressions the train makes on new players. Really scary stuff.

I can’t remember the last time a new players actually complain about the queensdale train.

I think the people complaining about queensdale train isn’t even newbie.

The majority of the complaint I heard is about the lack of people in the other zones. At least newbies have people to play with if that’s what they choose now.

I just find it hilarious when people don’t follow the zerg and just kill champs when they spawn because of the attitudes of some of the zerglings. That being said, it’s not the best thing for new players to be yelled at by people telling then how to play right in the beginning. It gives quite a negative first impression.

As a new player i think its awesome to be able to fight alongside high levels. In most games the starter zones are empty.
Venomous players exist in all mmo’s this will never change either ignore them or turn map chat off.

If someone who bought the game today and asked what was the quickest way to level they would be told Queensdale Champ farm is the best/fastest way . This is a very bad thing IMO.

I say this because the amount of skill required to champ train farm is non-existent. I have seen level 80 players with 800 AP with golden title try to do CoF p1 or p2 and fail miserably then complain that it is too hard. You know kitten well how they got that title and level 80(champ train).

The quality of skill in players have sunken to an all time low ever since the champ train. I can’t even explain to these players how to beat Marionette or Wurm without getting some snarky remark. It is like these players are way too overwhelmed by simple mechanics and get hysterical during and after their failure.

I blame all of this on the Champ Train. Whoever does Champ Train doesn’t make them casual. It makes them low skilled. There are casual players out there that could probably stomp on hardcore(4+hr a day guys/girls).

It would be great if the Champ Trainers would stay with the Champ Train , but Living Story pops up and they rush to it thinking they can press #1 and win.

Solutions:

1. Randomize respawn times on every champion between 1-2 hours. Increase the overall respawn time to 1+ hours.

2. Gate players to only one box a day for each single champ in Tyria

Will others agree with me? Absolutely not. They want to grind to get what they want fast to cut their overall game experience into a quarter. If people leave the game because of these solutions then so be it. Guild Wars 2 could do a lot better without carebears. I am sick of not being able to do content that could be enjoyable because it requires a zerg. Would be nice if the zerg knew how to play. People try to teach but the knowledge is lost in overflowing chat full of whining. Am I whining right now? Yes , and for a very good reason.

I don’t see any problems with the train as an idea. Sure, there’s always one or two kittens claiming anyone encountering a champ without the train is ‘stealing their mob’ etc, but as an intelligent person I know that’s not representative of the whole community.

If that particular issue could be dealt with, train is fine, at least it makes the starter zone feel pretty well populated.

not to mention you can make more money out of dungeons (that are less boring) than from this crap. ye, it got to be changed somehow.

If even Dungeon Master can’t guarantee competence, don’t expect Golden to do so. I don’t flaunt DM because there are terribads with it.

Anyway, about the champ train, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. So what if new players are exposed to it? It’s their problem, they can play how they want. Newbies aren’t nearly as impressionable as some people are making them out to be, if they want to go champ training or not, who’s to say they can’t?

It’s easy to assert that an observed phenomenon is caused by something you don’t like. It’s a lot harder to prove that assertion, and you haven’t. You’ve also neglected to establish that your solution would correct the problem.

If you want to do herd content that requires coordination and maybe even some skill, then find players who can coordinate and have some skill. This content was put in to appeal to those who want to organize, and who want coordination. You appear to be trying to do it with randoms. If so, you’re doing it wrong.

Telling somebody that the queensdale champ train is a fast way to level is being honest. The champ farms are a nice way to bring a community together. I’ve made friends from the Frostgorge champ train myself. I rarely see new players told to level in Queensdale without the usual, “but it isn’t recommended for your first character because…” warning attached. Not everybody is skilled enough to do all of content, and I don’t believe a champ farm is the cause of that.

GW2 is an MMORPG. The champ train removes the “RPG” part. If you want to get to lvl80 as quickly as possible and endlessly run the champ train to get gold and items until you get there, you aren’t playing an Role Playing Game, it’s as simple as that. If you wish to argue, please state the role play or story elements involved in the endless champ trains.

As it was previously stated, the fact that the main train is in a starter zone means that new players actually think this is how the game is supposed to be played and don’t understand it for what it truly is, which is simply an exploit of game mechanics. These champs were not meant to be farmed, they were meant to be difficult encounters for new players and where simply the next step up from heart and dynamic events.

Heart events – help out any way you can, you can help by killing normal level enemies or performing tasks

Dynamic events – work loosely as a team with other players to achieve a common goal, usually an organized fight between players and normal level enemies

Champions – work as a team with other players to take down an enemy too strong to be taken down alone

I’m tired of the arguments from trolls and champ farmers that this is just the way they want to play the game and it doesn’t hurt anyone else. Just be honest. It’s the easiest and laziest way to gain loot, nothing more, and you either don’t appear to be aware or don’t acknowledge the negative effect it has on others or the game as a whole. I avoid Queensdale like the plague, turn map chat off on the few occasions I find I have to be there and pity those that find themselves starting in that toxic environment as their first introduction to GW2.

You think its bad when new players find the lvl16-59 zones emptier and less organized than Queensdale? I find it a relief. Those zones are actually what MMORPGs are all about, exploring the world, collecting pieces of the lore and story through hearts and random NPCs and occasionally encountering others to fight alongside you. That is a Massive Muliplayer Online Role Playing Game.

The champ train? That’s multiplayer “pushing a lever for a pellet”, a basic psychological experiment that is more appropriate for mice in a box than humans in a complex game world.

It is true that this game is not linear and you can play almost any way you want. But champ farmers are not playing the game, they are acquiring a pile of pellets in the laziest and most mindless way possible.

Ending Queensdale champ Train.

I dont agree with this posting , to me this is a good fun part of the game ,

What Id Love to see is the Giant from Nageling brought over to attack
Claypole , as there are never any players over there to get my achievment .

^ I get the RPG part. I think you forget about the MMO part.

Base on my addicted forum crawling experience. There are really a bunch of complaint about GW2’s starting and mid area being empty.

Sagittario.8102:

The problem is people are being toxic in a starter area for the most common race.
New players get impression this is what GW2 is about.

This IS what GW2 is about.

most of the map contents aka the hearts are basically ignored now because of the train. op has a point. it burns you out and does not introduce you what the pve side can offer and anyone new in the game wouldn’t know any better. old players of course are an exception…maybe?

As a side note, what do you think would happen if they had put the new Marionette or Wurm events in Queensdale or Frostgorge Sound?

During the Claw of Jormag boss fight in Frostgorge Sound, the champ train either ignores it entirely or asks what percentage health he is at so they can be sure to spend the least amount of time possible on him to get his reward and get back to their champ farming.

Consider what effect this kind of behavior would have on the Marionette or Wurm fights, events that require almost an entire map limits worth of players to even have a chance at completing.

What would be your opinion of the champ train if it’s presence failed one of those events you were participating in because the farmers refused to come help (it’s longer and more complicated than Jormag and, unlike Jormag, absolutely no guarantee you will win) and the map player limit meant, without them, you wouldn’t have enough people?

Maybe the next Living Story events should be in Queensdale and Frostgorge Sound, with just as complicated events, ones that would be too long and have no guarantee of success so farmers would likely stick to their trains.

I suspect opinions would change when players are forced to see and be affected by at least one of the downsides of the champ train.

I am signing for this too.. It breaks the immersion. It cannot be even profitable… come on – 50% chance to drop blue champ bag + 90% of time the exotic bag contain only 2 greens and a few silver.
I can have the same by playing in Orr.

reddit is garbage why do you read that website OP?

Champ train is just playing the game, and if you don’t like it then don’t play. If they nerf the champ trains everyone will just kitten that the zones are empty.

I’ve tried doing the train to level alts and actually found it to be much slower than just doing map completion. I kind of see it as slow and steady, with minimal brain power required. In fact I’ve had guild mates tell me that they do champ trains occasionally while watching movies or catching up on their Netflix queue on another screen. Not because it’s very fast, or the drops are good, but because it helps them level alts with almost no attention. Queensdale is a good karma farm, and a quick way to knock out a krytan event or champion daily, but that’s about it. Don’t blame bad players on champ trains, sure bad players are drawn to that form of leveling, but they pay the penalty of it being slow, and having pretty atrocious drops(in Queensdale). If you got rid of Champ Trains bad players would just migrate to something else, and good players would just not play GW2 while watching movies. No point.

Because levelling up via doing hearts and DE’s is really difficult and ends up churning out pro skill gamers, oh wait…

It’s reasonably safe to suggest that most of the people levelling up via the QD champ train are vets levelling alts. They are not doing it to develop their twitch skills and pro gamer abilities.

Some people are “bads” some are not. The fact that the QD champ train is in the game has zero relation to this fact.

Sorry OP, but your post just smacks of yet another “I don’t want to do it, so everyone who does do it must be punished/nerfed” post. Which is a little bit sad really.

Actually I’m not sure if champ train is the fastest way to level.

I felt I level roughly at the same speed doing map completion. That being said I have like 13 lvl80 with 8 of them finished with map completion. So I know the map inside out.

That being said, I think you get more loot(gold) from champ farming.

Also I didn’t do champ farm to level up. But I’m still a complete newbie when I first step in GW2 dungeon.

At the first days of the champTrain almost everybody thought it an exploid that would be fixed about every hour….

I actually timed it before. I think I level faster just doing map completion.

But that is because I did map completion a bunch of times already, so I know the map inside out.

My first time doing map completion is obviously much slower.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

The quality of skill in players have sunken to an all time low ever since the champ train. I can’t even explain to these players how to beat Marionette or Wurm without getting some snarky remark. It is like these players are way too overwhelmed by simple mechanics and get hysterical during and after their failure.

I blame all of this on the Champ Train. Whoever does Champ Train doesn’t make them casual. It makes them low skilled. There are casual players out there that could probably stomp on hardcore(4+hr a day guys/girls).

Inexperienced players aren’t a new phenomenon.

Both the Marionette and Wurm are in easily accessible low level zones so naturally you’re going to see a lot of inexperienced players who don’t realize that these events require an absurd number of experienced players and become frustrated when they fail.

You may not like the champ train but it’s not what is causing frustration in other parts of the game.

The problem is one of the champ trains is in the starting area for humans. The brand new characters can’t just take the advice of “don’t play.” They can’t play anywhere else until they level up. It would be a good idea to move the Queensdale train to a higher level area, or get rid of it entirely. It wouldn’t make Queensdale empty, because there are always new players coming into the game. Also veteran players return on occasion because they just like hanging around the area, or they like helping out brand new players. I would like to mention that while Frostgorge Sound is a high level area, and new players would not be affected, the champ train there still creates a toxic atmosphere of name-calling and insulting towards players not involved in the farming, and I have even seen people using bots to farm. (I have reported all the bots that I’ve come across.) A good idea for the Frostgorge train would be to randomize the timers for the champions so that encounters are truly random.

If people are being “toxic”, hit that ignore button. I can almost guarantee you this isn’t deterring people from playing GW2, at headstart we had 5x more people in the noob maps and most of us are still here.

These “champ” trains also make friends and foster a sense of community, guesting or not.
Which is real hard to accomplish on dead maps….
Oh and another thing, many gamers play for LOOT. If they feel they are getting loot, they will continue to play.
If someone is being nasty, use the report function. But, you’re going to find that everywhere in gaming. Block/Ignore/Report, or alter your chat tab options.
Stop trying to take parts of the game out that people are enjoying just because you’re not enjoying it…

I’m sure that the champ train phenom was unintended. Could you imagine anyone creating it as a style of play? Regardless, if Anet really wanted to end it, they would make it painful and unrewarding as they did in the cursed shore last year. I realize a train sprang up there but it used to be a fun and rewarding social experience around the DE’s, but no longer.

But yeah, the answer is to create a rewarding game around a variety of playstyles. The trains would then recede into insignificance. Or, remain with the current mode and just make it painful and unrewarding.

queensdale is empty most of the time because the trains make it so, remove them and you see it fill up with the players that are suppose to be there.

sorudo.9054:

queensdale is empty most of the time because the trains make it so, remove them and you see it fill up with the players that are suppose to be there.

So wrong. It will just empty of the people running the train. That’s how it was before. That’s how it would be if the train was removed.

This parentalism is toxic to the community. Threads like this only server to tear the community apart rather than fostering any type of cohesion because this is a clear and cut case of “Play how I want. I don’t care if you’re enjoying it. Yes, you need to play how I say you need to play.”

Seera.5916:

And they’ll just move on to the next best place to zerg!

The problem isn’t the zerg train. The problem is the lack of incentive to do anything else.

If they made the rewards for doing other things greater, the zerg train would spread out. And that’s what should be done.

Exactly, but the way they want to keep the game going the way its going… farming still sucks compared to the TP and flipping even minor mats.

There should be equally rewarding content across the board in every aspect of the game OR they need to get rid of the ridiculously over priced TP, and bring back the value to in game gold.

Maybe they should do the opposite and reduce the amount of things that are rewarding and make the more rewarding things harder… but that wont happen.

There have been so many threads about the train. We really don’t need anymore. If the OP checked them all out I am sure he would realise it is a lost cause. The majority of people that started similar just firmly believe that they should dictate how others play the game and ruin how others like to play! If you don’t like it, don’t join it, don’t play it, go to other maps, but no you want the game to change to reflect your own selfish interests.

I’ve seen a few threads lately started by new players asking where all the people are and if they will see more people as they level. shrug In my experience, the impression of dead maps is far more likely to drive away new people than a busy map with your usual assortment of folks.

I honestly like the QD champ train. When I come home after a long work day and want to relax, have some social interaction with other players, and work on my dailies it works very well. I agree it’s not a good situation when people grief new players, but most often the griefers get it right back from other vets.
I like to level alts on the train, not because it’s fast, but because it gives me a chance to work on skill rotations and try out the different weapon sets on MOBs that don’t melt instantly, while still getting loot I can salvage for those ever valuable mid level mats.
Again, not the best way for new players to level, but it’s a good opportunity to teach new players and guild members about fields & combos very early in the game due to the stronger foe that doesn’t one-shot down and the repeat availability of the foes. “Ok I’m going to put down this fire field, use your blast finisher. See you have might? See any difference in your damage?”. I bet I practiced my back stab with my alt thief hundreds of times doing the train while leveling and getting some reward at the same time.

Sagittario.8102:

The problem is people are being toxic in a starter area for the most common race.
New players get impression this is what GW2 is about.

I am often in QD doing various things, leveling new toon through, gathering, doing some stuff for daily…whatever. I see the train from time to time and see the conversation in map chat. They seem friendly enough. The one on our server (IOJ) seems a pretty affable group, at least that is the view from outside the train. I have, from time to time, bumped into the train when I happened to be near when a champ was up or when Behemoth was spawning and I honestly didn’t see any problems. Folks throwing banners down and others thanking them…seems a very polite society for an MMO. At least this has been my experience.

Sagittario.8102:

The problem is people are being toxic in a starter area for the most common race.
New players get impression this is what GW2 is about.

I currently think, that the train is perfect to newcomers. It’s showcasing the Endgamecontent and WvW very well.

Subdue.5479:

You know, if you don’t like the Queensdale train, there are 4 other starter zones you could level in.

Egocentric thinking.

The storyline for humans takes you through Queensdale, it’s completely out-of-character (there is no in-story reason) to go to any of the other starter area’s before your story takes you to Lion’s Arch.

People should be able to enjoy the story and atmosphere.

First, let me tell you, in all MMO games i have played there has always been someone who i really had to ask “Did you buy that account? How did you get to level <insert level cap here>?” And some of those games didn’t have shortcuts like train in Queensdale. So, that player being level 80 and failing terribly in CoF may have nothing to do with this train.

Everyone in forum is yelling Down with the Queensdale champ train or Nerf champs or other destructive ideas. That is not the way to fix this issue.

Train in starting zone is a great thing. Make it more fun. Add chain events to tell bits of story. Make all those champs somehow connected. Make the whole process possible w/o using way points. Make it so players visit every corner of the map, with stories that tell them about specific place they are in.

Use the people farming champions in starting zone and turn it into something new players would enjoy, be happy to do again and make friends along the way. Let farmers have their reward AND new players enjoy at the same time.

But make it all doable on Queensdale only, let’s say, from 8 AM to 10 AM. Then, make the similar thing from 10 AM to 12 AM in Wayfarer Foothils. From 12 AM to 2 PM in Metrica Province etc. Then Queensdale again.

Integrate and improve, don’t destroy.

Rod.6581:

First, let me tell you, in all MMO games i have played there has always been someone who i really had to ask “Did you buy that account? How did you get to level <insert level cap here>?” And some of those games didn’t have shortcuts like train in Queensdale. So, that player being level 80 and failing terribly in CoF may have nothing to do with this train.

Everyone in forum is yelling Down with the Queensdale champ train or Nerf champs or other destructive ideas. That is not the way to fix this issue.

Train in starting zone is a great thing. Make it more fun. Add chain events to tell bits of story. Make all those champs somehow connected. Make the whole process possible w/o using way points. Make it so players visit every corner of the map, with stories that tell them about specific place they are in.

Use the people farming champions in starting zone and turn it into something new players would enjoy, be happy to do again and make friends along the way. Let farmers have their reward AND new players enjoy at the same time.

But make it all doable on Queensdale only, let’s say, from 8 AM to 10 AM. Then, make the similar thing from 10 AM to 12 AM in Wayfarer Foothils. From 12 AM to 2 PM in Metrica Province etc. Then Queensdale again.

Integrate and improve, don’t destroy.

Don’t make it only for a couple hours on rotation. Make it on all zones at all times. That way when players get bored of one zone they can hop to whatever zone they want. Not have to go to X zone at Y time.

Then you don’t have to worry about the lower level new players when the rotation hots zones they aren’t ready for.

There needs to be a reason for people to spread out.

frans.8092:

Subdue.5479:

You know, if you don’t like the Queensdale train, there are 4 other starter zones you could level in.

Egocentric thinking.

The storyline for humans takes you through Queensdale, it’s completely out-of-character (there is no in-story reason) to go to any of the other starter area’s before your story takes you to Lion’s Arch.

People should be able to enjoy the story and atmosphere.

Then just think of the zerg train as a battalion of fighters given the task of keeping Queensdale safe. There immersion kept and the zerg train can continue.

But should a player really not want to play in the same zone as the zerg there are other zones out that can be played in.

Sagittario.8102:

The problem is people are being toxic in a starter area for the most common race.
New players get impression this is what GW2 is about.

That’s correct. GW2 end game is grinding.

Numu Boltar.6105:

Sagittario.8102:

The problem is people are being toxic in a starter area for the most common race.
New players get impression this is what GW2 is about.

I currently think, that the train is perfect to newcomers. It’s showcasing the Endgamecontent and WvW very well.

This.

A friend recently started the game – found the trains and loved the idea – he is totally new to GW2 but jumped right on board with the train once he got the concept.

That aside – here’s the deal.

The train is not the problem – the train exists because the people that run it exist. People like me that want to get REWARDS and like to spend our time as efficiently as possible.

If you want the train to stop – and other similar things to be a thing of the past – simply give us something that is farmable like it in a more " out of sight" area of the game and we’ll be out of your hair.

Remember cof p1? Before that was nerfed all the champ train players were there.