Guild Wars 2

thefantasticg.3984:

sorudo.9054:

queensdale is empty most of the time because the trains make it so, remove them and you see it fill up with the players that are suppose to be there.

So wrong. It will just empty of the people running the train. That’s how it was before. That’s how it would be if the train was removed.

This parentalism is toxic to the community. Threads like this only server to tear the community apart rather than fostering any type of cohesion because this is a clear and cut case of “Play how I want. I don’t care if you’re enjoying it. Yes, you need to play how I say you need to play.”

uhmm, the “train” you’re talking about is exactly doing just that, forcing new players in the way they need to play.
that’s why your trains need to leave, i like to see a gamer evolve in a game, not being forced in something they eventually don’t like because they get the wrong idea about the game.
make high level places rewarding, make low/beginner level places not rewarding at all for higher level players.

i like to play a game how i would like to play it, if a playstyle is dominating the game while ruining other playstyles shows a weakness in the system and need to be fixed.

Oh crap, not another train thread from someone who want to dictate to everyone else how to play a game. Hope the mods merge them all. If you don’t like the train then stay away. You don’t have to involved in it, especially since all ya want to do is ruin it for others.

Yet another “play as I say, or not at all” thread.

Catch a grip people, you have zero right to dictate how anyone else plays the game. No matter what way they play or how they do it, if they aint breaking the rules its none of your business how they play.

If that means players champ train, so be it. And please stop using the idiotic argument that champ trains are somehow ruining the game for new players. People CHOSE to play a certain way because they like it and have fun, not because they are told to.

Oh and as for abusive people, they are not exclusive to champ trains. Anywhere people group up there will always be one obnoxious person who wants trouble. In the game you report them for abuse, job done. Its nothing to do with people running in a champ train and everything to do with human nature and people just being a total rectum.

So no, champ trains do not need “fixing”, they are not broken. YOU are the problem for complaining about how other people play.

Lexandro.1456:

So no, champ trains do not need “fixing”, they are not broken. YOU are the problem for complaining about how other people play.

excuse me, are you saying everybody should just stop playing the way they want to play because the trains exist there?
they should scram, don’t tell me to move away and you have no right to dictate how i play my part of the game nor do any of the train hogs.

sorudo.9054:

Lexandro.1456:

So no, champ trains do not need “fixing”, they are not broken. YOU are the problem for complaining about how other people play.

excuse me, are you saying everybody should just stop playing the way they want to play because the trains exist there?
they should scram, don’t tell me to move away and you have no right to dictate how i play my part of the game nor do any of the train hogs.

What? Did you read my post or just skim it? I said no-one has the right to tell anyone else how to play, when they are playing within the games rules and TOS.

That means champ farmers do not have a right to tell others to get out of the way, and AT THE SAME TIME it also means that people do not have a right to demand the devs destroy a part of the game that other players find fun just because a handfull of petty players object to it.

You don’t like how someone else is playing? Well frankly tough, its none of yours, mines or anyone else’s business how they play

psst. Lexandro and Sorudo. I think you’re both on the same side.

Lexandro.1456:

sorudo.9054:

Lexandro.1456:

So no, champ trains do not need “fixing”, they are not broken. YOU are the problem for complaining about how other people play.

excuse me, are you saying everybody should just stop playing the way they want to play because the trains exist there?
they should scram, don’t tell me to move away and you have no right to dictate how i play my part of the game nor do any of the train hogs.

What? Did you read my post or just skim it? I said no-one has the right to tell anyone else how to play, when they are playing within the games rules and TOS.

That means champ farmers do not have a right to tell others to get out of the way, and AT THE SAME TIME it also means that people do not have a right to demand the devs destroy a part of the game that other players find fun just because a handfull of petty players object to it.

You don’t like how someone else is playing? Well frankly tough, its none of yours, mines or anyone else’s business how they play

it’s not about how they play but where, they should go to lvl 40+ places where they can’t ruin the beginner experience.

sorudo.9054:

it’s not about how they play but where, they should go to lvl 40+ places where they can’t ruin the beginner experience.

Wrong. You do not get to dictate where anyone plays. Neither do you get to dictate how they play.

And how exactly is it ruining the experience for new players? That’s a ludicrous argument already proven false by the fact that new players join in the train and have fun. Or don’t and have fun doing something else.

sorudo.9054:

queensdale is empty most of the time because the trains make it so, remove them and you see it fill up with the players that are suppose to be there.

Any evidence about this?

Queensdale is always empty (along with other starters). The train is actually the one making it “populated”.

knives.6345:

sorudo.9054:

queensdale is empty most of the time because the trains make it so, remove them and you see it fill up with the players that are suppose to be there.

Any evidence about this?

Queensdale is always empty (along with other starters). The train is actually the one making it “populated”.

Indeed. The starter areas in most MMO games are empty because, (shock horror!) people have moved on with the character to other areas. The fact that people are in QD farming means that new players are able to meet up with and play along with higher level players and get a look at how they might want to play, or not as the case may be.

I guarantee, nerf the champ train and QD will be dead overnight.

sorudo.9054:

Lexandro.1456:

sorudo.9054:

Lexandro.1456:

So no, champ trains do not need “fixing”, they are not broken. YOU are the problem for complaining about how other people play.

excuse me, are you saying everybody should just stop playing the way they want to play because the trains exist there?
they should scram, don’t tell me to move away and you have no right to dictate how i play my part of the game nor do any of the train hogs.

What? Did you read my post or just skim it? I said no-one has the right to tell anyone else how to play, when they are playing within the games rules and TOS.

That means champ farmers do not have a right to tell others to get out of the way, and AT THE SAME TIME it also means that people do not have a right to demand the devs destroy a part of the game that other players find fun just because a handfull of petty players object to it.

You don’t like how someone else is playing? Well frankly tough, its none of yours, mines or anyone else’s business how they play

it’s not about how they play but where, they should go to lvl 40+ places where they can’t ruin the beginner experience.

If anything, it vastly improves the new and lower level player experience.

If someone wants to avoid the train they can, very easily, and still complete the map and move on.

Once again the “play my way” crowd has warped into the “play my way or I constantly ask for you to be nerfed/removed” crowd.

I don’t see a problem with champion trains in itself, it’s probably not the fastest way to earn gold anyway, it’s just fairly easy.

The problem with it imo is that its in a start zone, and probably the most popular starter zone, I dread to think what some new players must think when they see the train during their first hour of gameplay.

It should really be moved to some other non-starter zone.

My idea: instead of champs dropping gilded boxes have them drop all the items directly into your inventory. Inventory space would fill up much faster and slow down the train.

Be pretty easy too. triple those champions spawn rate. find it kinda odd they spawn as fast as regular mobs. I always envisioned champions being kind of like a rare spawn or some major enemy guarding a chest.

Anet, bring an end to these types of posts. Thnx.

I’ve read through about a dozen of these threads now. In most of them I see people lamenting the effect this has on new players. Yet, how many of the anti-train posters claim to be new players? I can’t remember one. If new players are having their game experience ruined, surely some of them would post about it. They’re not shy about posting about empty zones, after all.

I think ,ANet should solve this by implementign 1 new type of enemy and replace Veterans with them, letting all others get a rank up.

Imo Starter Zones absolutely shouldn’t have Champions at all, at least no such powerful enermies, which drop the kind of loot that Champions do…

This should imo be the new difficulty list of creatures:

Sublime = Bronze Portrait
Veteran = Silver Portrait
Elite = Gold Portrait
Champion = Purple Portrait
Legend = White Portrait

That wa Anet could exchange the current Champions out with Elite, that have completely different lott tables, but would be same as powerful than the current Champions, just all terms would get 1 grade of rank up and the old Veterans would get renamed to Sublimes

sorudo.9054:

thefantasticg.3984:

sorudo.9054:

queensdale is empty most of the time because the trains make it so, remove them and you see it fill up with the players that are suppose to be there.

So wrong. It will just empty of the people running the train. That’s how it was before. That’s how it would be if the train was removed.

This parentalism is toxic to the community. Threads like this only server to tear the community apart rather than fostering any type of cohesion because this is a clear and cut case of “Play how I want. I don’t care if you’re enjoying it. Yes, you need to play how I say you need to play.”

uhmm, the “train” you’re talking about is exactly doing just that, forcing new players in the way they need to play.
that’s why your trains need to leave, i like to see a gamer evolve in a game, not being forced in something they eventually don’t like because they get the wrong idea about the game.
make high level places rewarding, make low/beginner level places not rewarding at all for higher level players.

i like to play a game how i would like to play it, if a playstyle is dominating the game while ruining other playstyles shows a weakness in the system and need to be fixed.

I don’t get how it’s forcing people to do it, tbh.

I haven’t been playing for long. I can see this is a big thing for some people, for those it isn’t there’s alot of other content to interest them.
Paticularly new players. There is alot of game for 50€ here. An amazing world to explore, should they so choose, no one is forced to farm. (really, they aren’t.) Maybe for WvW or PvP, but then, the people who like that, generally are happy to farm. meh.

For me it’s not about ruining the game for other players. It’s an immersion breaker. It’s not the game as described or based on those descriptions envisioned.

It implies the path to reward is through repetition of unskilled game play. I want gamesmanship. I want effort to equal reward not simply endurance. I want my game play to be engaging not an alternative activity while watching Netflix or You tube.

It takes the role out of role play. I would rather chase after my water sprinkler of Nem Ankh again than do 2 laps around Queensdale.

The quest for that epic took not only individual effort; but it fostered the community. People helped to be part of something larger… Seeing someone with your epic in EQ meant they have truly worked and achieved something impressive; not that they got lucky.

What were the steps?

-Obtain Lord Bergurgle’s Crown from Lord Bergurgle (Lake Rathe)
-Give give Lord Bergurgle’s Crown to Shmendrik Lavawalker (Lake Rathe)
-Natasha Whitewater spawns and attacks Shmendrik Lavawalker (Lake Rathe)
-Spirit of Flame spawns upon Shmendrik’s death and attacks you (Lake Rathe)
-Loot Damaged Goblin Crown from Spirit of Flame (Lake Rathe)
-Give Damaged Crown to Natasha Whitewater (Lake Rathe)
-Receive Ornate Sea Shell (ID Ornate Sea Shell I) (Lake Rathe)
-Give Ornate Sea Shell (ID Ornate Sea Shell I) to Omat Vastsea (Timorous)
-Receive Coral Statue of Tarew (Timorous)
-Give Coral Statue of Tarew to A Seeker (Sol Ro Temple)
-Plasmatic Priest spawns and attacks (Sol Ro Temple)
-Loot Blood Soaked Plasmatic Priest Robe (Sol Ro Temple)
-Kill Lord Gimblox (Solusek’s Eye)
-Loot Lord Gimblox’s Signet Ring (Solusek’s Eye)
-Turn in Blood Soaked Plasmatic Priest Robe to Omat Vastsea (Timorous)
-Receive Orb of Frozen Water (Timorous)
-Natasha Whitewater spawns (Timorous)
-Turn in Lord Gimblox’s Signet Ring to Natasha Whitewater (Timorous)
-Receive Ornate Sea Shell (ID Ornate Sea Shell II) (Timorous)
-Turn in Ornate Sea Shell (ID Ornate Sea Shell II) to Naxot Deepwater (Burning Woods)
-Receive Message to Natasha (Burning Woods)
-Ixiblat Fer spawns and attacks (Burning Woods)
-Loot Sceptre of Ixiblat Fer (Burning Woods)
-Kill Overking Bathezed (Chardok)
-Loot Singed Scroll (Burning Woods)
-Turn in Sceptre of Ixiblat Fer and Singed Scroll to Omat Vastsea (Timorous)
-Receive Orb of Clear Water (Timorous)
-Natasha Whitewater spawns (Timorous)
-Give Message to Natasha to Natasha Whitewater (Timorous)
-Receive Shimmering Pearl (Timorous)
-Give Shimmering Pearl to Zordak Ragefire (Nagafen’s Lair)
-Receive Swirling Pearl and Zordak’s Box of Bindings (Nagafen’s Lair)
-Speak with Warder Cecilia (Skyfire)
-Loot four Pearlescent Fragments off random NPCs in Skyfire (Skyfire)
-Combine four Pearlescent Fragments inside Zordak’s Box of Bindings
-Receive combine result An Assembled Pearlescent Shard
-Give An Assembled Pearlescent Shard to Warder Cecilia (Skyfire)
-Receive Pearlescent Seal (Skyfire)
-Kill Zordak Ragefire (human), who spawns and attacks (Skyfire)
-Zordakalicus Ragefire (dragon) spawns and attacks upon death (Skyfire)
-Loot Impure Heart of Zordak Ragefire (Skyfire)
-Combine Swirling Pearl and Pearlescent Seal in Impure Heart of Zordak Ragefire
-Receive combine result Zordak Ragefire’s Heart
-Give Zordak Ragefire’s Heart to Omat Vastsea (Timorous)
-Receive Orb of Vapor (Timorous)
-Jhassad Oceanson spawns (Timorous)
-Give Orb of Water, Orb of Frozen Water, and Orb of Vapor to Jhassad Oceanson (Timorous)
-Receive Orb of the Triumvirate (Timorous)
-Avatar of Water spawns (Timorous)
-Give Orb of the Triumvirate to Avatar of Water (Timorous)
-Receive Water Sprinkler of Nem Ankh (Timorous)

And all of these were set within a larger story. This is what GW is lacking. This is what has driven all my friends from the game. I’m more stubbon than them.. but it won’t be long.

As long as you are content with mindless activity; there is no motivation for the developers to provide you with anything else.

^ That guy gets it. Not much wonder and excitement in the game. Just ‘pop’ up stories without any history to them.

As far as QD, I don’t think new players are going around ninja slaying champs that often.

Lexandro.1456:

sorudo.9054:

it’s not about how they play but where, they should go to lvl 40+ places where they can’t ruin the beginner experience.

Wrong. You do not get to dictate where anyone plays. Neither do you get to dictate how they play.

And how exactly is it ruining the experience for new players? That’s a ludicrous argument already proven false by the fact that new players join in the train and have fun. Or don’t and have fun doing something else.

and how do you know that new players are having fun, any evidence to support that.
oh wait, you don’t….

if chasing a train is fun in your world then it’s probably a boring world you’re living in, i would like to play the game in a more fun and immersive way.
but if the train is more important then having fun then go ahead, make the game nothing more then grind and grind some more.
you say it your self, no one can dictate how you play, that you’re among the masses that will bring the game down is not your concern, you are to stubborn to realize the problem but i can’t dictate how you play no matter how much it’s a problem.

sorudo.9054:

Lexandro.1456:

sorudo.9054:

it’s not about how they play but where, they should go to lvl 40+ places where they can’t ruin the beginner experience.

Wrong. You do not get to dictate where anyone plays. Neither do you get to dictate how they play.

And how exactly is it ruining the experience for new players? That’s a ludicrous argument already proven false by the fact that new players join in the train and have fun. Or don’t and have fun doing something else.

and how do you know that new players are having fun, any evidence to support that.
oh wait, you don’t….

if chasing a train is fun in your world then it’s probably a boring world you’re living in, i would like to play the game in a more fun and immersive way.
but if the train is more important then having fun then go ahead, make the game nothing more then grind and grind some more.
you say it your self, no one can dictate how you play, that you’re among the masses that will bring the game down is not your concern, you are to stubborn to realize the problem but i can’t dictate how you play no matter how much it’s a problem.

I take it you have personally asked every single new player to come into the game what they feel about the champ train. Given you are decrying the other posters lack of evidence. Feel free to cite all those players names and their verbatim opinion here so we can all have a look at it.

Having actually done the train and having had the chance to speak to newer players, none of them have thus far complained about it. Why would they? It comprises of a miniscule amount of content which in no way, shape, or form, prevents a new player from completing the map and moving on.

If they don’t want to do the train, they can do the content and move on, the train doesn’t prevent that. If they want to do the train, they have the option to do so. Truely awful….

The train is a positive thing for both new players and vets alike, it gives options and alternatives. Something only an anathema to the special snowflake crowd who want to see everything nerfed/removed which they personally don’t like to do.

“Oh noes, less than 1% of the content is something I don’t like! Instead of doing the other stuff I’m going to cry about the 1% and remove it from those who do enjoy it!!”

As for going on about “fun”, you are not the arbiter of what people can or cannot find fun. You realise that trains form less than a fraction of a percent of the pve content in this game right? You know you don’t have to do them right? Instead of moaning about it, perhaps get on with other stuff as opposed to trying and ruin stuff for other people.

GrayFox.2601:

GW2 is an MMORPG. The champ train removes the “RPG” part. If you want to get to lvl80 as quickly as possible and endlessly run the champ train to get gold and items until you get there, you aren’t playing an Role Playing Game, it’s as simple as that. If you wish to argue, please state the role play or story elements involved in the endless champ trains.

Well clearly they’re an elite group of monster hunters ensuring the safety of the farmland in Queensdale and heading off any possible threats to Divinity’s Reach. This group, going by the moniker ‘Train’ (although since no such technology or creature exists in Tyria it’s a bit of a mystery), patrol the lands of Queensdale, always ready. A fairly eclectic bunch, most of the dominate races are represented, all battling together to ensure freedom and peace can rain across Queensdale. A contingent of the Train can also be found in Frostgorge Sound, although given the harsh climate and distance from civilisation, new members prefer the sunny climate of Queensdale.

But on a serious note.

Harper.4173:

The train is not the problem – the train exists because the people that run it exist. People like me that want to get REWARDS and like to spend our time as efficiently as possible.

This. I personally don’t do the train, since I get burned out on boring things, but there will always be players who will take the shortest route to success, always find the optimal path. Even if ANet fixed the champ train, they’ll just find something else to do. The trick here is to attempt to introduce new mechanics or features which appeal to these players and add some fun. However this seems near impossible since these players are technically grinders and introducing more fun grinding gameplay mechanics would just cause people to complain about the manifesto and how ANet is not adhering to it.

So in summary, there’s nothing anyone can do to fix this problem, at best you can try and minimise or push it onto some other aspects of the game but in the case of ANet they’re pretty much in a catch-22 since some players like the train.

To summarize the complaint is people saw the train and think it breaks “immersion”. So they want it to stop.

I don’t go read rededit. If you can’t be bothered putting it here, I can’t be bothered to go there.

Champ train is fine.

The champ train isn’t “fine” in a design sense. It provides enjoyable play for some people, people who like mindlessly following a rotation, but it takes people away from the intended end game content and those premium open world events suffer from lack of numbers.

The core problem is that a raid sized group of people are taking on mobs intended for small groups. The lack of scaling of difficulty and reward means they can be mindlessly repeated for high rewards for time taken. Nobody would think it was fine to take 25 people through all the dungeons at rapid speed to collect maximum loot in the shortest time, so I’m not sure why people think it is good game play to do the same in the open world.

As a side note, the climate of the Queensdale champion train on Aurora Glade is quite merry. People are very nice, and are constantly making jokes. And people wait for other players, before killing certain champions.

Stooperdale.3560:

The champ train isn’t “fine” in a design sense. It provides enjoyable play for some people, people who like mindlessly following a rotation, but it takes people away from the intended end game content and those premium open world events suffer from lack of numbers.

End game starts at level 1 according to Anet and surprisingly the champ train can be done at that level. Your point therefore is invalid.

Stooperdale.3560:

The champ train isn’t “fine” in a design sense. It provides enjoyable play for some people, people who like mindlessly following a rotation, but it takes people away from the intended end game content and those premium open world events suffer from lack of numbers.

The core problem is that a raid sized group of people are taking on mobs intended for small groups. The lack of scaling of difficulty and reward means they can be mindlessly repeated for high rewards for time taken. Nobody would think it was fine to take 25 people through all the dungeons at rapid speed to collect maximum loot in the shortest time, so I’m not sure why people think it is good game play to do the same in the open world.

I have no problem with it.

You don’t like it, don’t do it. This is where I get gold when I do some farm. I don’t like dungeons because the PvE in this game sucks so I don’t mind the mindlessness from this champ train because the rest of the PvE is mindless stupid boring as well. If the PvE was better, and yes I do agree the rest should have better rewards, I wouldn’t mind doing dungeons or spreading out. Since the game is the way it is, I’m fine with the champ train.

Even if the PvE actually get’s improved, I will still be fine with champ train. This is the way people care to play so let them.

Stooperdale.3560:

The champ train isn’t “fine” in a design sense. It provides enjoyable play for some people, people who like mindlessly following a rotation, but it takes people away from the intended end game content and those premium open world events suffer from lack of numbers.

The core problem is that a raid sized group of people are taking on mobs intended for small groups. The lack of scaling of difficulty and reward means they can be mindlessly repeated for high rewards for time taken. Nobody would think it was fine to take 25 people through all the dungeons at rapid speed to collect maximum loot in the shortest time, so I’m not sure why people think it is good game play to do the same in the open world.

Yes it is “fine”.

No it doesn’t take away from other content, at all.

Comparing instanced dungeons with a player party hard cap to open world, non capped content? Well that analogy makes little sense. But you are aware that people do run dungeons to be as fast as possible and to maximise gold/loot gain right?

Repeating the world “mindlessly” in a not very well veiled attempt at belittling those that do the trains doesn’t give any gravitas to your argument.

sorudo.9054:

Lexandro.1456:

sorudo.9054:

it’s not about how they play but where, they should go to lvl 40+ places where they can’t ruin the beginner experience.

Wrong. You do not get to dictate where anyone plays. Neither do you get to dictate how they play.

And how exactly is it ruining the experience for new players? That’s a ludicrous argument already proven false by the fact that new players join in the train and have fun. Or don’t and have fun doing something else.

and how do you know that new players are having fun, any evidence to support that.
oh wait, you don’t….

Actually yes I do know that new players find it fun, because I actually talk to new players. Our guild is always open and welcomes new players almost every single day. Plus I have gone on the QD champ train numerous times and chatted with new players in the train. They are new and have the whole game to explore and play. If they didn’t find it fun, they would not be there.

sorudo.9054:

if chasing a train is fun in your world then it’s probably a boring world you’re living in, i would like to play the game in a more fun and immersive way.
but if the train is more important then having fun then go ahead, make the game nothing more then grind and grind some more.
you say it your self, no one can dictate how you play, that you’re among the masses that will bring the game down is not your concern, you are to stubborn to realize the problem but i can’t dictate how you play no matter how much it’s a problem.

First of all what someone else finds fun not for you to say. Some people like taking the numbers of trains or plains and find it fun. Its not my idea of fun but they like it so thats all that matters.

The champ train is not a problem and you are the stubborn one for refusing to accept that someone likes something you don’t.

And I laugh whole heartedly at the notion of the “masses” bringing down the game. Total hyperbole and failed reasoning. If the “masses” are doing it, the game aint getting brought down because its got a playerbase playing content. What would bring the game down is elitist cliques trying to ruin parts of the game for other players because they (the elitists) object to it.

Again for those who don’t get it;

You, I and any other player does not get to dictate how, when or where another player plays the game no matter how, when or where they do it. As long as they are not breaking the TOS, its none of your, mines or anyone elses business, period.

You don’t like it? Tough.

Stooperdale.3560:

The champ train isn’t “fine” in a design sense. It provides enjoyable play for some people, people who like mindlessly following a rotation, but it takes people away from the intended end game content and those premium open world events suffer from lack of numbers.

Quite honestly the open world is as empty as before the champ train is introduced.

All the champ train does is take the event train from kissex hill in to queensdale.

“No it doesn’t take away from other content, at all.”

The evidence shows that the champ train does take people away from Orr and the Scarlet invasions. These were designed to be repeatable end game content but there is nobody there except for yet more champion farming. You could argue that there should be more rewards for completed invasions but actually the rewards that are out of balance, the champ trains, should fixed first rather than the game rebalanced around the broken rewards.

The reason no-one does the invasions is simple; Anet nerfed extremely hard. They enforced staggered waves, which makes a fair bit harder than it was at release. That combined with the loot nerf makes it less appealing. Plus Scarlet has the hots for my characters and wont stop gimping me to death every time I do an invasion so I dont bother anymore.

And I don’t do Orr because its frankly ugly as hell. Its kitten brown tone is a real turn off for a game that has some really nice zones.

Neither of which is to do with the QD champ train. So your “evidence” is false.

champ train is fine, but it is sadly in an inappropriate location. The train in Queensdale gives wrong impression to most newcomers.

It would be better if the train actually got moved back to Orr and Frostgeorge so that

1. the zones become easier to 100% for players.
2. players get to play through the wast majority of the game world before they encounter the endless grind.

I think the problem is a huge percent of people training isn’t even level 80.

Many people use it to level up. So obviously they won’t zerg back to orr or frostgorge because they arnt’ even lvl80.

laokoko.7403:

I think the problem is a huge percent of people training isn’t even level 80.

Many people use it to level up.

How is that a problem when players like myself have multiple alts? Are we all supposed to be forced to play content we don’t like? Just because a character is not a level 80 does not mean they are a new player.

Lexandro.1456:

laokoko.7403:

I think the problem is a huge percent of people training isn’t even level 80.

Many people use it to level up.

How is that a problem when players like myself have multiple alts? Are we all supposed to be forced to play content we don’t like? Just because a character is not a level 80 does not mean they are a new player.

I’m just responding to the guy above me. He says move the queensdale train from queensdale to frostgorge. So it don’t interrupt the newbies.

I’m just telling him that dont’ work. Since people use it to lvl up not to farm gold. A lvl1 can’t enter frostgorge.

I don’t understand what’s the negative side for a new player that there’s a boss farm going on. There’s more players to play with. They can always get help killing champions. Even Bandit champ gets killed sometimes. “Toxic” environment? Sure, someone may pop a lid if another group kills a champ before it’s time, but so what? It’ll spawn again soon and the train is on its rails again.

I mean, how does it affect their lives compared to there was not a boss farm going on? If anything, people are more active on QD. I’ve been leveling my new character lately and there’s always something happening. No nastiness or namecalling whatsoever.

Stooperdale.3560:

“No it doesn’t take away from other content, at all.”

The evidence shows that the champ train does take people away from Orr and the Scarlet invasions. These were designed to be repeatable end game content but there is nobody there except for yet more champion farming. You could argue that there should be more rewards for completed invasions but actually the rewards that are out of balance, the champ trains, should fixed first rather than the game rebalanced around the broken rewards.

There is zero hard evidence to suggest that removing the two main champ trains from the game would suddenly see everyone doing the invasions.

If the train wasn’t running, I wouldn’t suddenly be doing the invasions, nor would a lot of the people I know.

The reason few go to Orr, outside of temple events and ore runs is because it had the crud nerfed out of it. And the invasions are at this point, naff.

Many of those who no longer bother with invasions and Orr are instead doing dungeons, world bosses, WvW and other activities. Not champ farming.

And no, the rewards for the champ trains are not at all out of balance, nor are the rewards “broken”. They provide an alternative (which is less lucrative) to those who are sick of running dungeons and flipping the TP.

If you nerf the trains, those people are not going to suddenly wander around doing open world content, they are going to go back to farming dungeons and those Scarlet invasions and Orr are going to be just as dead.

Woot what a result, we can all go back to CoF1 type speed farming, that will be fun!!

There is nothing at all wrong with the trains in this game at the moment, and in fact the removal/nerfing of them would do more harm then good. That people actually believe that removing/nerfing them would bring something positive to the game is mind boggling.

If you want to promote other content, you make it fun and rewarding, you don’t shaft what is already there in an effort to force people somewhere else… unless you are mental. Even then, people would still farm and frankly that is their perogative, some people really need to get over the fact that not everyone wants to play exactly how you want.

That’s the point Traveller, those who dont “train” or even hang out in QD are complaining about those who do. People keep posting that its somehow detrimental to new players, without showing any actual downside. Toxic players are everywhere in the game, that’s why we have an ignore function and a report system. Its not limited to or because of the people in a train, its just toxic players in general. There are plenty of them at event like Teq.

I see the open world before the queensdale train start. I can’t say I find that much difference.

There are some people farming Kessex Hill event before that is not there anymore. But that’s all the difference I saw.

Lexandro.1456:

That’s the point Traveller, those who dont “train” or even hang out in QD are complaining about those who do. People keep posting that its somehow detrimental to new players, without showing any actual downside. Toxic players are everywhere in the game, that’s why we have an ignore function and a report system. Its not limited to or because of the people in a train, its just toxic players in general. There are plenty of them at event like Teq.

There is an actual downside. A player who levels from 1-80 using the champ train will be far less skilled than a player who levels through WvW or the rest of the PvE world.

All you do in a champ train is press #1 as fast as you can. When you actually play the rest of the game you dodge and use the rest of the skills on your skill bar.

It is so laughable that I almost cry when I see an obvious level 80 champ trainer try to do any dungeon path. Would be great if these champ trainers stayed in the champ train forever. Then my sides wouldn’t hurt.

^ I didnt’ do any champ train. But I’m still a complete newbie when I step in my first dungeon. You just over think things too much.

And a lvl80 newbie in wvw is the much better than a level1 newbie in wvw

Ok so now champ training equates skill level does it? LOL.

I have no idea what’s with this hate towards Queensdale champ train. If you’re leveling there’s no way you can solo a champ with your blues and greens.

I never encountered any problems with the champ train and I usually do my daily in Queensdale everyday so I have no idea why is everyone hatin’

Lexandro.1456:

Ok so now champ training equates skill level does it? LOL.

yes it does. champ training actually degenerates your skill level so much that you can’t do anything else in GW2 other than champ train.

@laokoko ^ I didnt’ do any champ train. But I’m still a complete newbie when I step in my first dungeon. You just over think things too much.
And a lvl80 newbie in wvw is the much better than a level1 newbie in wvw

Thats the point…. no one takes a level 1 into WvW.. They will have leveled through playing through much more content than a champ trainer and be level 80 before they decide to go to WvW.

A lvl 80 player who doesnt champ train can learn faster and comprehend better than a level 80 champ trainer when it comes down to dungeons.

Yes because doing hearts and DE’s is so hard and makes for really skilled, almost pro esport level players right! Perhaps you think picking up 50 kegs in order to fill a heart quest sets you up to be able to roflstomp in spvp or WvW?

Running the champ train or not, has zero relation to how generally skilled or (far, far more importantly) how fast someone is able to learn.

I have to agree with this thread. I played the game last year near to when it was released and found (for example) the swamp champion extremely enjoyable, and the ogre as well. There were no trains back then. The ogre spawned and actually spilled out into the fields and the players that were in the area banded together spontaneously to defeat it. Sometimes many died during the exchange. The swamp champion, being even more massive, was a similar story. It felt very “epic” and enjoyable.

Fast forward to this year, actually last night, and I had introduced a friend of mine to the game and we were just leveling new characters in Queensdale (level 9-14). I didn’t really want to spoil the swamp champion for him, so I was just waiting for it to happen. The ogre had already been a disappointment because of the train .. it died in seconds.

Well, we were just hanging around the swamp and a three commanders and a massive train waypoints in, the swamp monster spawns .. my friend just happens to be a short run on the other end of the swamp. The thing dies before he is able to do any damage essentially. He only gets to see it.

It is very disappointing that the kind of events and interactions that really built a love for this game (for me), are impossible in the current environment. It really takes something away from the game for new players. He was not impressed, I will tell you that much.

I am not sure what the solution is, but I don’t think the rewards from killing it should be very great for high level players .. not that high level players don’t deserve rewards, but they need to be encouraged to move to other areas where the impact will not be so great on the experience for players that are playing the game for the first time.

This isn’t something new. Every MMO has to deal with players figuring out the system and exploiting it for maximum potential. The “magic” of a new game is certainly lost over time on any single player since you figure out the system .. however, we should try to at least keep some “magic” for players that are just installing the game, so that they can be similarly pulled into the game, rather than given a “yawn .. nice graphics, interesting .. yawn” moment that probably makes them dread the next 80 levels rather than look forward to more experiences of the same.

“The reason few go to Orr, outside of temple events and ore runs is because it had the crud nerfed out of it. And the invasions are at this point, naff.”

Crud, nerfed, naff. Let me rephrase those descriptions. Changes were made to Orr to give serious scaling on the events for the number of players. This makes them seem naff compared to the trivial champion trains that have no scaling at all even for a raid sized group of players. Even after the scaling changes there were players in Orr doing the events. It was the reward changes to world bosses (guaranteed rare), dungeons (guaranteed coin), and champions (guaranteed purse) that pulled players elsewhere with each patch. If the rewards for scaled up Orrian events and non-scaling Queensdale champions were properly balanced then players would go back to Orr and Orr wouldn’t be seen as naff.