Guild Wars 2

Yes, plz anet derail the trains.. why? because the noobs that do it actually make less gold than if you were to do it a legit way like running dungeons. I actually tested this by running the frostgorge champ route a month ago for abt 30 mins or less, and then did the math. My findings? i barely made even 1 gold. Not only is this method brain-dead and monotonous, it is also highly stupid because it leads to less gold/hr. I vote for anet to nerf the kitten outta this and bury it somewhere deep deep in the ground where no one will think to look, like they did for CoF P1 farm. makes everyone happy in the end, though noobs being noobs will still cry and find a way to make everyone around them miserable.

The trains are not the problem. They are a symptom. ANet needs to fix the problem and not just treat the symptom.

The problem is a lack of incentive to do other things. The trains are done mostly for karma. The majority of drops from the train aren’t worth much.

Beginning of the month it’s also for champ killer, group event completion, and/or event completion. Same as the end of the month.

I can do the train about two times before I get bored. I get off the train when I get bored. I do not feel forced to do the train nor did I ever feel the need to use it to level up.

However, I’d imagine it’s nice for the days where you want to play but just aren’t feeling the prescence of mind to do more difficult content. And be honest. We all have those days.

The problem is the queensdale zerg removing any incentive to do group content outside of the zone. almost no one attempts group events in the other zones because there is no incentive or reason to.

I think random timers should be added to all group events (Not just queensdale) perhaps with diminishing returns if its farmed. The idea is to encourage smaller groups to farm across multiple zones to encourage more then 1% of the games content to be played.

It be more enjoyable to new players who otherwise would automatically be forced skip group events. At the same time it would make the content itself more exciting because this change would break apart the zerg into smaller less face-roll groups.

nagr.1593:

Yes, plz anet derail the trains.. why? because the noobs that do it actually make less gold than if you were to do it a legit way like running dungeons. I actually tested this by running the frostgorge champ route a month ago for abt 30 mins or less, and then did the math. My findings? i barely made even 1 gold. Not only is this method brain-dead and monotonous, it is also highly stupid because it leads to less gold/hr. I vote for anet to nerf the kitten outta this and bury it somewhere deep deep in the ground where no one will think to look, like they did for CoF P1 farm. makes everyone happy in the end, though noobs being noobs will still cry and find a way to make everyone around them miserable.

You somehow made less than one gold in 30 mins doing the FS champ farm and you are calling other people noobs?

Stooperdale.3560:

“The reason few go to Orr, outside of temple events and ore runs is because it had the crud nerfed out of it. And the invasions are at this point, naff.”

Crud, nerfed, naff. Let me rephrase those descriptions. Changes were made to Orr to give serious scaling on the events for the number of players. This makes them seem naff compared to the trivial champion trains that have no scaling at all even for a raid sized group of players. Even after the scaling changes there were players in Orr doing the events. It was the reward changes to world bosses (guaranteed rare), dungeons (guaranteed coin), and champions (guaranteed purse) that pulled players elsewhere with each patch. If the rewards for scaled up Orrian events and non-scaling Queensdale champions were properly balanced then players would go back to Orr and Orr wouldn’t be seen as naff.

You realise the place has a history of being nerfed right?

Eitherway, they are “naff” outside of temples and node mining for the main part because they manage to combine boring content with lacklustre rewards.

And again, no. Nerfing the champ trains will not see people flooding into Orr for general gameplay, or doing invasions. It will simply see people packing back into the dungeons 24/7 to get gold, or see them farm the next best returning spot.

Let’s imagine somehow you are right, You nerf the champ trains and so force some people to go back to farming in CS. Wow, that’s awesome. Make people farm in another zone for less gold simply because you personally have a gripe with people running trains which have zero impact on your gameplay. That’s a truly brilliant improvement to the game.

If you want people to go back to Orr, ask from more enjoyable and more rewarding content. Not for nerf to already existing content in the hope it will force people there.

I actually enjoy the champ train, and I think if it was the first thing I saw in the game, I would probably be really interested =D

TL;DR: The QD Champ train is teaching new players bad habbits, discouraging new players from getting deeper into the game, and driving them away due to toxic behavior in a starting zone. Moving the train to an upper level zone (like Orr) would help new player retention (and thus income).

Before I start with the complected stuff, I think it is best to get some of the base knowledge down so people know where my argument is coming from.

1) Most players in the game are human (source: ANet’s own infographics). By this, I am assuming that a nearly equal % of new players are also rolling humans as their first character as there is no reason I’m aware of to assume that race popularity has radically changed.

2) Most new players are going to start with their racial starting zone rather than go to LA and pick up one of the others.

3) The QD Champ train is as populated and… well vulgar on other servers as it is on Tarnished Coast (my home).

Ok, now to business:

QD is the starting zone for a LOT of new players. Humans have always been the most popular choice and that shows no sign of changing any time soon. However, QD is also home to the most popular champ train in the game, which is a problem (not that there are trains, but where it is located).

Champ trains are farming, they are a grind, I doubt many would come in here and tell me that they are the pinnicle of the gameplay that GW2 has to offer. Yet, here in QD, it is how many new players are being “taught” to play. Numerous times I’ve seen players zone into Kessex Hills and say “Where is the train at?” then “What do I do without a train?”

The QD train is teaching new players that the train is how they level up and get better gear. No hearts, no other events, just champ to champ to champ. This is leaving players in their 20s unable to complete their lvl 10 story missions due to bad gear and a total lack of understanding of key mechanics (such as dodge). As you can guess, many are finding this frustrating and leave.

In addition to teaching bad habits, the champ farm community is hostile at best and flat out toxic at worst. Swearing, slurs, and stuff that would make for so many “kittens” on the forums are slung about frequently, usually at new players who make the mistake of killing a champ “out of order”. This should not be a new player’s first encounter with GW2 players, this should not be ANYONE’S encounter with GW2 players. A new player who sees racists, sexist and homophobic slurs swung about with gusto in their very first zone could well be turned off the whole game long before they finally break away from the pack and try out a different zone (which will likely kill them in their lvl 10 gear).

Good reads about exactly what is happening:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1w745u/new_player_need_guidance/
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1w4a5n/queensdale_is_a_breeding_pit_for_crappy_gw2/ (yes, there are a huge number of comments)

I suggest that the QD champ train be demolished and reconstructed in a far higher level zone (50+). Those who enjoy this gameplay, or who rely on it for risk-free income will still have access to it at higher levels, however it will not impact the new player experience.

New players coming into the game will be able to learn, like the older players here did, that hearts and other events are the best way to get XP and gear. They will be able to learn proper mechanics such as dodging.

By keeping such toxic activities away from new players, there is the added bonus that they will be more “hooked” on the game by the time they are encountered in the late game. This will lead to better conversion rates and more income for ANet. Few players will buy many gems in their first 20 lvls, yet this is when the QD champ train is beginning to drive them to other MMOs.

Here’s a question from a new player.
So, champ train. Never knew what it was until I read a thread on it. (Not seeing one ingame.)
Aren’t there champions for EVERY starting zone? Why aren’t people running “champ trains” in those zones too?
For that matter, why are people complaining about how someone else is playing? Me? I detest farming and pvp, so I will never do either activity. EASY. Problem solved.
Has the “champ train” affected my gameplay at all? Pff. No.

People need to worry less about what someone else is doing and worry more about what THEY THEMSELVES are doing.

One thread below yours as of the time of my post:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Bring-an-end-to-Queensdale-champ-farm

…………..

Really? I’m a new player and I ran the champ train ONCE. Hated it, never went back. Plenty of other stuff to do in the zone, so I did that. Worry less about what others are doing and worry more about what YOU are doing.

Your premise contains too much conjecture for it to be taken factually.

I enjoy the Queensdale Train on the Underworld server, we do not suffer from what you describe.

As you are a resident of TC, i am going to assume your post is roleplaying.

Blude.6812:

Oh crap, not another train thread from someone who want to dictate to everyone else how to play a game. Hope the mods merge them all. If you don’t like the train then stay away. You don’t have to involved in it, especially since all ya want to do is ruin it for others.

siralius.9517:

Anet, bring an end to these types of posts. Thnx.

Oh crap, not another post from someone who wants to dictate how we discuss things in this forum (merge all champ farm posts) or what we can discuss at all (bring an end to these types of posts). If you don’t like these threads, just stay away. No one is forcing you to read them or post. You don’t have to get involved, especially since all you want to do is ruin it for others.

Looks like both of you and the numerous others, who I didn’t bother quoting who share your opinions, should learn to take your own advice.

And as for the topic itself, I’ve seen many useful and workable ideas so far and they are all based around the same concept; remove champions from starter areas. I think this is both feasible and will have no negative affect on the game whatsoever. Champions in starter areas did work just fine until the introduction of champ bags and the forming of the champ trains that almost immediately followed. Whether you downgrade the current hostile NPCs to Veterans or create a whole new class, I think their difficulty should remain the same, but the point would be that they no longer drop champ bags, just normal loot. You still get event credit and you still get loot, you just lose the champ farmers. It becomes a starter area again.

And for those that feel they have the right to play this game however they want, they are, for the most part, correct. However, champ farming isn’t playing the game. It requires no skill, tactics or thought, which is the entire point of playing an MMORPG or most other games for that matter. In fact, it doesn’t even require a human at the keyboard to be done (my paperweight can sit on my 1 key all day long without breaking a sweat :-P ).

In fact, I was actually having a hard time finding a game to compare it to that can be won with such mindless non-effort, but the internet is vast and bountiful.

http://orteil.dashnet.org/cookieclicker/

For all you champ farmers out there, enjoy a game that is even easier than champ farming. After your first 15 clicks and choosing the first upgrade, all you have to do is sit back and wait for the computer to click enough for you to upgrade again! (Sadly, you do have to click these)

Enjoy with my compliments!

Tolmos.8395:

I actually enjoy the champ train, and I think if it was the first thing I saw in the game, I would probably be really interested =D

The 3 seconds the champion is alive is epic for a new player <sarcasm>.

While something should probably be done across all zones, and there should be more interesting things for experienced players, knowing about the monthly rewards, etc .. I still think it is not the best for most new players to be exposed to that kind of mindless facerolling. That’s assuming a new player can even participate, which they can’t because they lack the ability to impact the outcome.

Smaller scale battles, with appropriately weighted content, are more enjoyable I think.

Another thing that might help is the scaling algorithm. Scaling the players stats, equipment and even utility skills (as in if I am in level 10 in Queensdale, I don’t have access to my elite skill, just as a true level 10). Hopefully the nerf to crit damage will help as well.

The champions could also scale higher based on the average (true) level of all the players around it, and gain new dangerous abilities.

MercyKilling.8519:

For that matter, why are people complaining about how someone else is playing? Me? I detest farming and pvp, so I will never do either activity. EASY. Problem solved.
Has the “champ train” affected my gameplay at all? Pff. No.

People need to worry less about what someone else is doing and worry more about what THEY THEMSELVES are doing.

It’s a seemingly compelling argument, until you take it to it’s natural conclusion. Griefing and high level players abusing content meant for lower level players is something that is as old as MMOs. Guild Wars 2 has had the foresight to allow higher level players to experience the content in a (somewhat) meaningful way (by scaling) .. but right now I don’t think anyone can argue that the content is being abused.

I could care less how other people play, to a point, but when it starts to impact a new players enjoyment of the game .. it just means more possibility of a new player not playing the game for a long time, which means less revenue for Anet, which means less improvements, which means less enjoyment for everyone. It’s in everyones best interest to keep lower level content interesting, challenging and not abused by large amounts of veteran players.

So here’s a couple of questions for all the anti-train posters – Why are you bothered? How does it affect you what other people like doing?

As for the suggestion that people should farm the dungeons for better loot – well, we know how noob friendly these dungeon runners are, don’t we? Oh, and show me a dungeon that will allow a level 1 player access (and don’t say Fractals).

What’s with the sudden multi train threads? Must admit I hardly ever run it, but leave it be, it serves a purpose for those who enjoy it – given that it runs pretty much 24/7 that should tell you how popular it is.

Mimizu, I’m glad that your server is far less toxic than others, however based on discussions on other forums and reddit, your server is by FAR the anomaly. Many others speak of extreme hostility towards anyone going “out of order” and “stealing our bosses”. You will also note that I’m suggesting that a similar train be created elsewhere for those, like yourself, who enjoy the gameplay that the champ trains provide. It is valid gameplay, however it is not the type of gameplay that should be introduced to new players right after they finish the prologue zone. If the train was moved to a lvl 50+ zone it would not impact a high level player in the slightest but would make a great improvement on the NPE.

Just Trogdor, that thread also doesn’t contain any arguments as to why… just “move the train pls”. I wanted to actually provide some concrete reasons why it should be moved.

I would take anything posted on Reddit with an oceanful of salt to be honest. Reddit, like the Youtube video comments section is the cesspit of the internet.

Stop worrying about how other people play the game and you will enjoy yours more. I see a few comments in these anti-train threads that I think are either unfair assumptions or flat exaggeration.

1. Assuming new players are a bunch of imbeciles. It seems the anti-train crowd assumes that new players will stumble across the champ train in Queensdale and just get stuck there and never do anything else ever. If they do finally break free it is assumed they will just be a bad player and somehow ruin the game for the anti-train players. Apparently it is assumed that new players are too dense to see all that other stuff on the map, all these prompts to do other things, all these different places will go and just assume that the champ train is the game. Apparently new players will stumble across the champ train and come to the conclusion that GW2 is the smallest MMO in the history of MMOs.

2. Exaggeration on the impact it has in /map. I do the champ train on and off a few times a week when I’m leveling an alt or just want to relax and goof around for a half hour or so while waiting for something else to start. When the champ train became a ‘thing’ there were a fair amount of arguments about champ sniping. The train has been going on so long now that almost everyone is used to it and doesn’t even comment when it happens now. I guest on a few servers and this seems to be the norm at this point. The only time I see problems is when someone goes out of their way to disrupt the cycle and then taunts the people in the train (since we are all assuming here, perhaps some of the anti-train people posting in this thread). Some players seem to have made a career out of that but even then usually once someone says something everyone else says something like, “Oh, that’s just so-and-so. They always do that just ignore him,” and that’s the end of it.

3. People should be doing “X” and “X” to level or farm because it is better. See my first sentence in the post.

You may feel that doing dungeons and WvW or what ever is a better way to play and more fun. That’s fine but just because you disagree with another play style doesn’t mean you should dictate how others play the game. If you don’t like the train then don’t do it. What are you doing hanging out in the human stater zone to see how apparently disruptive it is anyway? Shouldn’t you be doing a dungeon or fighting Teq or something? Or maybe if you are so concerned about new players go find some and show them around other parts of the game. You know, be proactive and help them avoid their impending doom of getting sucked into the champ train.

Imperatora,
as long as the map contains tp and crafting facilities and the champs give bags and karma, i dont mind where the train is placed.
Queensdale just happens to have all those criteria.

With a bit of jiggling, anet could turn any map into one viable for a champ train.

yet they do raise an interesting question… what IS the QD champ farm teaching new players about the way “GW2 is meant to be played”?

Do you feel that the QD train is the best experience for a new player to have?

My argument isn’t that new players are confused that running trains is the game. My argument is that one of the fairly unique aspects to Guild Wars 2 is the dynamic events system. The champions that spawn in the most popular low player zone are KEY to drawing in new players into the game.

The fact that there are 40+ veteran players that want karma and some loot turning what could be a meaningful encounter to a new GW2 player into a mindless clickfest where the outcome is predetermined and they would have zero impact .. just takes away from the game for a new player.

Does it mean they will quit on the spot? Probably not. Does it perhaps not get some “hooks” into new players that will turn them into long time players? Maybe so. My point is that the content for new players is precious. You only have X hours to make an impression on a new player to turn them into regular players, especially in a game that is not subscription based.

I should say furthermore that I am not really against “trains” .. while I think that the system should try to make encounters more interesting, you can’t completely stop them probably. That being said, I am completely against anything that lowers the meaning of any encounter in a newbie zone. Those zones should be treated with the utmost care and should be protected from abuse as much as possible, for the reasons I mentioned.

Sagittario.8102:

The problem is people are being toxic in a starter area for the most common race.
New players get impression this is what GW2 is about.

Having the area empty and making the new GW2 players make their impressions based on that would obviously be better.

GrayFox.2601:

As a side note, what do you think would happen if they had put the new Marionette or Wurm events in Queensdale or Frostgorge Sound?

During the Claw of Jormag boss fight in Frostgorge Sound, the champ train either ignores it entirely or asks what percentage health he is at so they can be sure to spend the least amount of time possible on him to get his reward and get back to their champ farming.

Consider what effect this kind of behavior would have on the Marionette or Wurm fights, events that require almost an entire map limits worth of players to even have a chance at completing.

What would be your opinion of the champ train if it’s presence failed one of those events you were participating in because the farmers refused to come help (it’s longer and more complicated than Jormag and, unlike Jormag, absolutely no guarantee you will win) and the map player limit meant, without them, you wouldn’t have enough people?

It would just underscore the main problem with making any world boss require a full zone to kill. The problem would not lie with the farmers, but in the fight design.
Personally, i would be overjoyed. Maybe it would have forced Anet to actually fix the main issues with those events.

NaughtyOne.6598:

The problem is the queensdale zerg removing any incentive to do group content outside of the zone. almost no one attempts group events in the other zones because there is no incentive or reason to.

You are mixing cause and effect. It’s not that the queensdale train removes incentives for other activity. It exists because there is lack of incentives for other activity. Don’t nerf the train. Create more options elsewhere.

Astralporing.1957:

Having the area empty and making the new GW2 players make their impressions based on that would obviously be better.

I think when GW 2 enters the phase in an MMO where new players are rare .. that might be a compelling argument. I don’t think we are there yet .. therefore the new player experience should take priority. Between old players rerolling and new players installing the game, there is enough. The champion might be alive for a while, for sure.

The “reasons” for ending the Queensdale Champ Train are so bad I don’t even know what to say here… lol

Subdue.5479:

You know, if you don’t like the Queensdale train, there are 4 other starter zones you could level in.

MercyKilling.8519:

Here’s a question from a new player.
So, champ train. Never knew what it was until I read a thread on it. (Not seeing one ingame.)
Aren’t there champions for EVERY starting zone? Why aren’t people running “champ trains” in those zones too?

Several zones have a “world boss” that spawns based on a timer and/or certain events, including four of the starting zones. The timers run from once or twice an hour to several hours between spawns. Most draw a crowd whenever they spawn, there are third-party sites dedicated to tracking when the events occur to make it easier for players to gather.

But the “champ train” is not about those, it’s a series of champions that spawn constantly allowing players to run in an endless loop. In Queensdale it’s Troll – Bandit – Oak – (Wasp, on a longer respawn timer) – Spider – Boar and then back to the Troll. All are easy to kill with a group, and all give bonus loot every time.

Most zones have champions, but only Queensdale and Frostgorge Sound (a high-level zone) have them arranged so that players can constantly go from one to the next like this.

tolunart.2095:

MercyKilling.8519:

Here’s a question from a new player.
So, champ train. Never knew what it was until I read a thread on it. (Not seeing one ingame.)
Aren’t there champions for EVERY starting zone? Why aren’t people running “champ trains” in those zones too?

Several zones have a “world boss” that spawns based on a timer and/or certain events, including four of the starting zones. But the “champ train” is not about those, it’s a series of champions that spawn constantly allowing players to run in an endless loop. In Queensdale it’s Troll – Bandit – (Wasp, on a longer respawn timer) – Spider – Boar and then back to the Troll. All are easy to kill with a group, and all give bonus loot every time.

Most zones have champions, but only Queensdale and Frostgorge Sound (a high-level zone) have them arranged so that players can constantly go from one to the next like this.

no Oak?

Corpus Christi.2057:

The “reasons” for ending the Queensdale Champ Train are so bad I don’t even know what to say here… lol

The reasons for keeping it hinge on what exactly? “You can’t tell me how to play!”?

Anet has every right to tell you how you can play in a starter zone because the starter zone, especially the human one, is where they make sure the game, the new players encounters, quests, EVERYTHING, is as polished as possible in order to draw new players in the game world.

A train of 40+ players that a level 10 player can’t keep up with, can’t impact, can’t really participate fully in, and also changes all champion encounters in said zone to a faceroll clickfest … is the epitome of abuse of low level content.

You can have your trains anywhere else basically. Having them in newbie zones is a detriment to the long term survival of GW2, at least until Anet doesn’t want new players to come into the game.

Mimizu.7340:

no Oak?

Edited to add Oak… it’s been a while since I rode the train.

For some reason, the Piken Square train bypasses Bandit.

nagr.1593:

Yes, plz anet derail the trains.. why? because the noobs that do it actually make less gold than if you were to do it a legit way like running dungeons. I actually tested this by running the frostgorge champ route a month ago for abt 30 mins or less, and then did the math. My findings? i barely made even 1 gold. Not only is this method brain-dead and monotonous, it is also highly stupid because it leads to less gold/hr. I vote for anet to nerf the kitten outta this and bury it somewhere deep deep in the ground where no one will think to look, like they did for CoF P1 farm. makes everyone happy in the end, though noobs being noobs will still cry and find a way to make everyone around them miserable.

Another elistist, gods’ gift to the game, wanting things nerfed even when it doesn’t directly affect you.
When it comes down to it, I much prefer any noob to the players who think they are so much better.

Many things still affect you even if they don’t seem to directly. Anytime a new player is robbed of an experience, it is a lost opportunity. If a certain percentage of those players don’t become permanently players, and a certain percentage of permanent players buy gems .. then that is lost revenue. Lost revenue is less money available to fix bugs and enhance the game.

“Nerfing” the train in Queensdale is not a nerf. It would simply mean the most efficient way of getting karma or whatever people are after is somewhere else and people would move on. It would have an immediate impact on new players encounters with champions, for the better.

I think the Queensdale champ train is silly. It makes me laugh to see all these people with legendary weapons and now ascended armor running around Queensdale killing champions. It’s not uncommon for a member of the train to decide that he owns all of Queensdale and start admonishing those that he feels are not playing along with his order. What a jerk! Anyways, I see no reason to stop the train.

Harper’s point is spot on. If Anet wants to get rid of the Queensdale champ train, it can be done by making a better location elsewhere.

Queensdale champ train is so, so, so, sooo bad. For that to be the first thing a new player to be exposed to is just terrible.

Spicyhash.7605:

Queensdale champ train is so, so, so, sooo bad. For that to be the first thing a new player to be exposed to is just terrible.

You guys act like the train takes up the entire map and is the first thing a player sees when entering Queensdale. With the exception of the bandit champ, which is near a vista, the other champs are not even near anything significant. Oak and troll are somewhat near a waypoint and boar is in the general area of a heart quest but it isn’t like they are along the beaten path. Unless you are looking for the champ train it would probably be some time of playing before you stumble across it. Meanwhile as the new player if they ask some random question that often comes up for new players in /map there are several people in map to answer for them instead of just hearing crickets. Again, for all you so concerned about new players, why not be proactive and go there and offer to show them how you like to play.

It’s not that new players don’t know how to play, or that they are messing up the “environment” .. or anything related to that.

The train basically transforms all the champion encounters in Queensdale, the most popular starting area, into mindless incredibly short encounters. They might as well put bags of karma that spawn on the same timers. The functional result would be the same, except new players would not get to see the pretty graphics of the many abilities they don’t yet have access to.

Taking what can be interesting encounters and turning them into uninteresting ones is probably the worst mistake you can make in a newbie zone. As I said, it is just one less interesting thing that COULD have kept someone playing, if it does come down to that.

I’ve only been playing the game for a few months (82 days to be exact according to /age), so I still consider myself a new player. You may or may not agree with my being a new player. Newer player might be more fitting. At any rate…

I don’t see anything wrong with the Queensdale champion train. In fact, I personally thought it was kind of a cool thing, something I hadn’t seen before.

My first experience with it was when I was attempting to get the vista point in the bandit lair (can’t remember the name). I attempted it a couple of times but kept getting killed by the bandits in the area. However, after seeing the train make its way into the bandit station, I managed to get the vista point, since the bandits were all dead. Seemed pretty cool actually.

I was never put off by the train. As a new player, I didn’t run around with a group, so trying to kill any of the champions wasn’t even a forethought. In fact, I don’t know if any new player would attempt to kill the champions anyway… at least not without being part of a group. And since the train runs non-stop, a new player can tag along, be a part of a group for a short while, kill the champ and move on his/her merry way.

I think there is entirely too much of people worrying about what someone else is doing with their time in the game. People should probably pay more attention on their own fun rather than someone else’s.

The trains are no less legit than any other activity in the game. They’re not an exploit. They have already been stealth nerfed once with very little impact. The problem is not with the trains but with the game. Give people something else to do that is more rewarding with as little preparation, peer pressure and requirements and the trains would mostly disappear.

4 trains exist in the game. The queens is just more popular cause only 1 event doesn’t offer karma. The other trains are more loot based.

Agreed. Was in Queensdale yesterday. Best described as the end of the walking dead s2. not to talk about the endless verbal abuse and childish behaviour. I see it as nothing more than exploiting the low level champs and the dynamic loot system.

As an experiment a while back I visited many different servers during prime time hours to see how the trains differed between them. The first obvious difference was which champions and in which order they were encountered. The second was the attitude. I noticed that most of the well-known heavily populated servers were ruder, more egotistical and far more mean-spirited then the less populated ones.

I will refrain from naming servers to avoid a flame war. I am happy to point out that my own server was (and still is) one of the nicer ones.

Seriously, if a lowlie newbie managed to take out a Champion by themselves in the seconds before the train pulls into the station I’d be cheering them and maybe mailing them a gold or something in the hopes that such a stud eventually finds their way into WvW for my server.

The loop oscillates. Being a master champ-slayer is far more about timing and logistics than it is about spamming button 1 like a zombie. Good train conductors don’t gripe, they move on to the next easy kill and keep their train focused and on track.

I’ve been in frost gorge when a guild pulls into t take care of their rush for the week. Good conductors recognize the signs, get on chat to check with the guild, and just route business around the event.

Its crap players that get abusive. Good ones share the road.

I love the FG Zerg route, and gthe train leaders there!

One of the most common pro-train arguments seems to be that there is nothing else to do in this game and Arenanet just needs to add more content and the trains will go away on their own.

The fact that these players are saying that is proof they simply haven’t explored the game to any great length. The truth is there are plenty of other things to do all across Tyria, but the train offers rewards with no risk of death or even much thought, so there is no incentive to go out and find anything else.

World bosses, temples, hearts, dynamic events and dynamic event chains all give you experience, karma, gold and loot. The latter can be very rewarding in loot, story content and useful and powerful consumables that you can’t find anywhere else. Map completion itself, aside from the rewards from hearts, POIs, WPs and Vistas, gives you a good reward based on the level of the map and, when finished, a title, achievement points and two of an ingredient needed for many legendaries.

But the champ farmers have no incentive to even go out and look for this content, so they don’t even know it’s there.

Granted, these all do take effort. If you want something that “…is more rewarding with as little preparation, peer pressure and requirements…” as the champ train, I would suggest that an MMORPG is really not the game for you. One of the core concepts of this type of game is that you have to work for your rewards.

However, if it’s effortless rewards you are after, I have already provided an alternate game for you in my previous post.

http://orteil.dashnet.org/cookieclicker/

Enjoy!

Yeah remove Queensdale train and lets make one of 2 ONLY active maps in the game ghost town too.If there remove train that map will be dead and what new players gonna think then that entire game is dead.I dont know where u people get this suggestions really??

TChalla.7146:

I’ve only been playing the game for a few months (82 days to be exact according to /age), so I still consider myself a new player. You may or may not agree with my being a new player. Newer player might be more fitting. At any rate…

I don’t see anything wrong with the Queensdale champion train. In fact, I personally thought it was kind of a cool thing, something I hadn’t seen before.

My first experience with it was when I was attempting to get the vista point in the bandit lair (can’t remember the name). I attempted it a couple of times but kept getting killed by the bandits in the area. However, after seeing the train make its way into the bandit station, I managed to get the vista point, since the bandits were all dead. Seemed pretty cool actually.

I was never put off by the train. As a new player, I didn’t run around with a group, so trying to kill any of the champions wasn’t even a forethought. In fact, I don’t know if any new player would attempt to kill the champions anyway… at least not without being part of a group. And since the train runs non-stop, a new player can tag along, be a part of a group for a short while, kill the champ and move on his/her merry way.

I think there is entirely too much of people worrying about what someone else is doing with their time in the game. People should probably pay more attention on their own fun rather than someone else’s.

But according to the anti-train group you must have seen the train and it ruined your experience as a new player. What you say can’t be true. :P

How is the Queensdale, or any champ train for that matter, still in existance? I’ve joined the zerglings a few times and have been bored kittenless after maybe five minutes of press 1 to win…

I make more gold and get better loot just by exploring the map, seriously.

Oh wow, another Queensdale Champ Train thread. Let’s see… any new ground not covered by the dozens of other Queensdale Champ Train threads?

Nope. They are virtually interchangeable.

I think I’ll stick with the one that had better jokes.

Blablabla “people don’t enjoy the same stuff I enjoy so they must be forced to do my way because it’s the best/only way” blabla