Guild Wars 2

Nerelith.7360:

phys.7689:

uknortherner.2670:

What I’ve learned from this thread so far:

1) Vocal serial complainers either can’t read simple English or deliberately take things out of context just for the sake of being argumentative.
2) Anyone who points this out to them is a shill, a fanboy, a white knight or an Anet employee.
3) I wish this forum had an ‘ignore’ function, so I can block out all the rubbish you conspiracy nuts keep coming out with.
4) I will probably get an infraction point or two for posting this.

the context of a blog post for anet is pretty much a commitment, they have said in the past, if you see a blog post about it, serious.
From the information that leaks out, i think anet is (or was up until recently) still struggling with managing and organizing the game development. It would honestly under that system be hard to even use our feedback, because they cant even use their own that well.

The reason these things arent happening is because anet is unable to use their current resources as well as they could, that includes these forums, and the feedback we give them.

Are you saying they don’t know what they are doing? Or maybe they don’t know how to realize their own vision?

It just seems that people are ok with " Well.. they are doing their best… " I paid for a quality product from a professional company. Not some college intern’s best attempt.

I really think a lot of players are so in love with Arenanet and GW2, that they let them get away with things we would only accept from an amature." hey, it’s Not good…but what do you expect? It’s not Like they are professionals or anything…. for people with a hobby it’s not bad."

I constantly hear " they are getting better." Or " the new patches show they are taking our input to heart."

That sounds Like Public Beta phase. This game has been released for 2 years…when are we leaving Public Beta?

I know one of the avid defenders will now say " All MMO’s are always in Public beta. " umm…No, they aren’t.

But the way this game doesn’t remain consistent with it’s primary vision, the way it squanders resources… and the good will it had generated with that other game I cannot mention. Unless it’s in the gem store of course.

It makes me wonder.

i am not excusing it, i am just trying to take a realistic look at the situation, It really does seem that anet is having problems with managing and product development. They have a lot of projects with one dude working on it most of it, who seem really disconnected from the other parts. They seem like they are constantly under time crunch and therefore cant deliver, They have a pipeline issues, bottleneck issues where every team has to wait on UI, or network etc.

I think they will probably need to get that stuff sorted out before they can begin to have sustainable success. Its pretty hit or miss at this point.

phys.7689:

Nerelith.7360:

phys.7689:

uknortherner.2670:

What I’ve learned from this thread so far:

1) Vocal serial complainers either can’t read simple English or deliberately take things out of context just for the sake of being argumentative.
2) Anyone who points this out to them is a shill, a fanboy, a white knight or an Anet employee.
3) I wish this forum had an ‘ignore’ function, so I can block out all the rubbish you conspiracy nuts keep coming out with.
4) I will probably get an infraction point or two for posting this.

the context of a blog post for anet is pretty much a commitment, they have said in the past, if you see a blog post about it, serious.
From the information that leaks out, i think anet is (or was up until recently) still struggling with managing and organizing the game development. It would honestly under that system be hard to even use our feedback, because they cant even use their own that well.

The reason these things arent happening is because anet is unable to use their current resources as well as they could, that includes these forums, and the feedback we give them.

Are you saying they don’t know what they are doing? Or maybe they don’t know how to realize their own vision?

It just seems that people are ok with " Well.. they are doing their best… " I paid for a quality product from a professional company. Not some college intern’s best attempt.

I really think a lot of players are so in love with Arenanet and GW2, that they let them get away with things we would only accept from an amature." hey, it’s Not good…but what do you expect? It’s not Like they are professionals or anything…. for people with a hobby it’s not bad."

I constantly hear " they are getting better." Or " the new patches show they are taking our input to heart."

That sounds Like Public Beta phase. This game has been released for 2 years…when are we leaving Public Beta?

I know one of the avid defenders will now say " All MMO’s are always in Public beta. " umm…No, they aren’t.

But the way this game doesn’t remain consistent with it’s primary vision, the way it squanders resources… and the good will it had generated with that other game I cannot mention. Unless it’s in the gem store of course.

It makes me wonder.

i am not excusing it, i am just trying to take a realistic look at the situation, It really does seem that anet is having problems with managing and product development. They have a lot of projects with one dude working on it most of it, who seem really disconnected from the other parts. They seem like they are constantly under time crunch and therefore cant deliver, They have a pipeline issues, bottleneck issues where every team has to wait on UI, or network etc.

I think they will probably need to get that stuff sorted out before they can begin to have sustainable success. Its pretty hit or miss at this point.

I was Not making comments about you directly or personally. I meant in general, there appear to be a Lot of players that are satisfied with what Anet is delivering.

I Like racing games. I used to hang out at arcades and play against others in 1 vs 1 racing… unfortunately,… I sucked at it. always spinning out of control.. then trying to recover, and failing… bla bla bla…

One day this player looked at me and said " you could be doing better, want to Know what the secret is to faster lap times?" I asked " what?" He said " Slow down."

I thought about that and it hit me like a ton of bricks.

Anet has a problem, it is trying to do too many things too fast , and there seems to be lack of communication between different parts of the Anet team. it spins out of control.

Anet needs to slow down. That means it needs to ignore the playerbase that is saying " Gimme new stuff now!" Here is a fact. There are 2 types of players Mostly… players that will stick by you, and players that will drop you for the next Hello , Kitty IV MMO.

Anet needs to understand, that the players that will leave will leave, and trying to appease them by giving up on the vision you set for yourself only keeps them temporarilly, Until hello, Kitty IV comes out with their expansion " hello, Kitty: The tom cat years."

They need to understand the players they SHOULD be appealing to, are the ones they seem to be taking for granted.

Nerelith.7360:

Anet has a problem, it is trying to do too many things too fast , and there seems to be lack of communication between different parts of the Anet team. it spins out of control.

I disagree with you. I think it’s simply a matter of resource allocation. I can’t help but feel they’re putting the vast majority of their personnel on the Living Story and cash shop items and not nearly enough on things like new skills, class balance, bug fixes, new features, quality of life improvements, etc. I could be wrong, but that’s the impression I’m left with after almost two years of playing this game.

darkace.8925:

Reasonable people accept that deadlines in this industry can, will, and often should be missed. It’s been my experience that unreasonable people are generally not worth fretting over, as they they’re apt be be unreasonable. So what’s to be gained by ArenaNet going dark? They’re punishing the reasonable for nature of the unreasonable, who are – as you already know – going to complain about something one way or the other.

Because the unreasonable are the most vocal. And they are vocal not just here but on every MMO site with a GW2 section. And that discourages new players from plunking down the cash for the game and maybe a gem card. By saying nothing until something in the release pipeline takes some of the wind out of the unreasonable people’s sails it also builds excitement because reasonable people will know it’s not just marketing hype and vague promises.

Behellagh.1468:

darkace.8925:

Reasonable people accept that deadlines in this industry can, will, and often should be missed. It’s been my experience that unreasonable people are generally not worth fretting over, as they they’re apt be be unreasonable. So what’s to be gained by ArenaNet going dark? They’re punishing the reasonable for nature of the unreasonable, who are – as you already know – going to complain about something one way or the other.

Because the unreasonable are the most vocal. And they are vocal not just here but on every MMO site with a GW2 section. And that discourages new players from plunking down the cash for the game and maybe a gem card. By saying nothing until something in the release pipeline takes some of the wind out of the unreasonable people’s sails it also builds excitement because reasonable people will know it’s not just marketing hype and vague promises.

Its a better story that anet is late with X Y Z plans, (which actually helps promote those plans if they are good plans) than anet has nothing to say and hasnt kept up with things they were supposed to do last year.

Better people to be angry because something they like, that is cool and interesting is delayed, than to think nothing is really on the horizon. Worst thing you can do when you are late, or not doing something someone expected is go dark, leaves them to assume the worst, and they dislike you for it.

Vayne.8563:

Sithaco.4673:

I understand that development changes, plans change, due dates change, but it’s because of such a lack of communication that this is a problem. They make a big blog post that lots of MMO websites link to detailing what will be coming in 2013, everyone hears about it and it gets really hyped up, and then some of it doesn’t happen. Sure, this is okay, plans and development change, but the way they communicated this with us was terrible, not everyone is going to see a reply from Arenanet in a single forum post saying that it probably won’t be coming in 2013, thus causing the problem of communication. If they are going to hype something up really big and make everyone hear about it, when plans change they need to make that information just as visible.

Except that a roadmap isn’t hype. They laid out plans and said plans might change. That’s not hype. That’s not even close to hype. If you took what was said at face value, they said they had plans that may change. If you can get hyped about that, more power to you.

They gave us, as I’ve said, other stuff which was just as important. Sure it’s not the same stuff. They specifically said in a post (I don’t have a quote handy) that the stuff they had been planning with the precusors wouldn’t have worked with other changes they made to the game. It’s back to the drawing board.

A statement of definite, “will be,” as opposed to, “might be,” or, “intend to be,” or, “hope to be,” is not a plan. It is not an intention.

A statement that X is true with a disclaimer at the end of the statement that X is not nor was ever intended to be true is a bad idea. Anet never intended the stated items to be definite, but they said they were. A poor choice of wording. Again.

LOVE that someone mentioned Peter Molyneux in this post lol. He is the MASTER!

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Sithaco.4673:

I understand that development changes, plans change, due dates change, but it’s because of such a lack of communication that this is a problem. They make a big blog post that lots of MMO websites link to detailing what will be coming in 2013, everyone hears about it and it gets really hyped up, and then some of it doesn’t happen. Sure, this is okay, plans and development change, but the way they communicated this with us was terrible, not everyone is going to see a reply from Arenanet in a single forum post saying that it probably won’t be coming in 2013, thus causing the problem of communication. If they are going to hype something up really big and make everyone hear about it, when plans change they need to make that information just as visible.

Except that a roadmap isn’t hype. They laid out plans and said plans might change. That’s not hype. That’s not even close to hype. If you took what was said at face value, they said they had plans that may change. If you can get hyped about that, more power to you.

They gave us, as I’ve said, other stuff which was just as important. Sure it’s not the same stuff. They specifically said in a post (I don’t have a quote handy) that the stuff they had been planning with the precusors wouldn’t have worked with other changes they made to the game. It’s back to the drawing board.

A statement of definite, “will be,” as opposed to, “might be,” or, “intend to be,” or, “hope to be,” is not a plan. It is not an intention.

A statement that X is true with a disclaimer at the end of the statement that X is not nor was ever intended to be true is a bad idea. Anet never intended the stated items to be definite, but they said they were. A poor choice of wording. Again.

Body of Intent says " X is true.*"

The fine print magic Blurb says " What “X is true” means is.." taken in the context of an mmo.. in the best of all possible worlds we would love to deliver x… and although we were categorical that " x" would be in the game what that really means is, barring any unforseen changes, Board meetings.. memos from NCSoft, vists from the executive junior vice-president in charge of public relations, bad quarter earnings…or any myriad of reasons we cannot go into detail about….. X is true, unless it might be false."

Edit:

When I read a developer Blog, I no longer get excited. I used to, until I learned the maxim of computer gaming. " Until it’s in your hands…it’s vaporware."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

Vayne.8563:

Kanebrake.6192:

Vayne.8563:

Kanebrake.6192:

Just go look at one of the review sites online for what it’s like to work for Arena Net. Read what former and current employees are saying. Should give everyone some insight into why things are so screwed up in this game.

How many people posted to that site, out of hundreds of employees. You know I’ve had people complain about working for me too. And then, I have people who have told me and still tell me it was the best job they ever had.

Going to a site like that is like going to a forum. The people who have complaints are always the loudest. It proves nothing.

I knew someone would come along and make this very argument. It was inevitable. Fact is that sure there will probably be some people who are just bitter and will complain.

However if you take the time to read what they say even the ones who say it’s the best place in all of God’s creation to work have some of the same “cons” listed. If those were only showing up on the negative reviews you could dismiss them out of hand but they show up on the positive ones as well.

Vayne, Are you an employee or contracted or have any kind of relationship with anyone who works or is contracted by Anet? I ask because after looking through your posting history for the past few weeks you seem to defend pretty much everything Anet does or does not do.

You haven’t looked through enough of my posting history then. There are things I’m definitely against and have spoken out about. In addition, there are dozens and dozens of threads that complain that I don’t post in at all. Mostly because I feel the complaints are fair minded, and worded appropriately.

I simply dislike unfairness and bias. I’ve lived too long and been in too many situations where people have 5% of the story and manufacture the other 95% to suit some person theory. It’s all self fulling prophecy.

People come and say this game is dead or that game is dead. It’s on every forum in the world. People still say it about WoW, which is clearly not dead. Just because someone says something on a forums, doesn’t mean that it’s true.

I’m not defending Anet. I’m trying to point out that some of the attacks we’ve seen (as in someone using the term lying) is at very least hyperbole, but people say it anyway. And I’ll call people on it, not because I disagree with everything said, but because the wording is particularly combative or wrong the way it’s phrased.

Some guy had a long list of complaints recently and I posted in that thread and only replied to one of them. That should tell you something. It means I agreed with the other ones.

And I quote -

after looking through your posting history for the past few weeks…

I did not say I had looked at all 190+ pages of your posting.

Kanebrake.6192:

Vayne.8563:

Kanebrake.6192:

Vayne.8563:

Kanebrake.6192:

Just go look at one of the review sites online for what it’s like to work for Arena Net. Read what former and current employees are saying. Should give everyone some insight into why things are so screwed up in this game.

How many people posted to that site, out of hundreds of employees. You know I’ve had people complain about working for me too. And then, I have people who have told me and still tell me it was the best job they ever had.

Going to a site like that is like going to a forum. The people who have complaints are always the loudest. It proves nothing.

I knew someone would come along and make this very argument. It was inevitable. Fact is that sure there will probably be some people who are just bitter and will complain.

However if you take the time to read what they say even the ones who say it’s the best place in all of God’s creation to work have some of the same “cons” listed. If those were only showing up on the negative reviews you could dismiss them out of hand but they show up on the positive ones as well.

Vayne, Are you an employee or contracted or have any kind of relationship with anyone who works or is contracted by Anet? I ask because after looking through your posting history for the past few weeks you seem to defend pretty much everything Anet does or does not do.

You haven’t looked through enough of my posting history then. There are things I’m definitely against and have spoken out about. In addition, there are dozens and dozens of threads that complain that I don’t post in at all. Mostly because I feel the complaints are fair minded, and worded appropriately.

I simply dislike unfairness and bias. I’ve lived too long and been in too many situations where people have 5% of the story and manufacture the other 95% to suit some person theory. It’s all self fulling prophecy.

People come and say this game is dead or that game is dead. It’s on every forum in the world. People still say it about WoW, which is clearly not dead. Just because someone says something on a forums, doesn’t mean that it’s true.

I’m not defending Anet. I’m trying to point out that some of the attacks we’ve seen (as in someone using the term lying) is at very least hyperbole, but people say it anyway. And I’ll call people on it, not because I disagree with everything said, but because the wording is particularly combative or wrong the way it’s phrased.

Some guy had a long list of complaints recently and I posted in that thread and only replied to one of them. That should tell you something. It means I agreed with the other ones.

And I quote -

after looking through your posting history for the past few weeks…

I did not say I had looked at all 190+ pages of your posting.

But looking at a posting history doesn’t tell the full story. There are negatives posts on page one right now and I’m not in those threads at all. If that doesn’t tell you something, I don’t know what will.

There are sometimes ten negative posts on page one and I post in two of them because I happen to dislike what’s being said in those posts, or how they’re being said, or I disagree with those posts.

That about the other 8 threads I didn’t touch at all.

It’s like looking for viruses in the human body, finding viruses and then claiming there’s nothing but viruses.

I’ve said time and time again people come here to complain and I"m no different. But I only post in the threads I disagree with. There are negative threads I’m not posting in, because what I want said in those has already been said.

It’s just a matter of insufficient research on your part.

CureForLiving.5360:

f communication we only have idle speculation to try and figure out what is what.

Kanebrake.6192:

Just go look at one of the review sites online for what it’s like to work for Arena Net. Read what former and current employees are saying. Should give everyone some insight into why things are so screwed up in this game.

Oh thank you I never even through of doing that.

Kanebrake.6192:

Vayne, Are you an employee or contracted or have any kind of relationship with anyone who works or is contracted by Anet? I ask because after looking through your posting history for the past few weeks you seem to defend pretty much everything Anet does or does not do.

People can have an opinion without being a sock puppet. The idea that we need to have wildly varying opinions throughout a period of time or somehow be biased or unable to see the big picture is a rather odd notion.

1) You’re welcome.

2) Sure they can. But it often seems there’s a few very vocal posters who go after anyone who says anything even slightly bad about this game.

Kanebrake.6192:

2) Sure they can. But it often seems there’s a few very vocal posters who go after anyone who says anything even slightly bad about this game.

To be fair, that works both ways.

Vayne.8563:

Kanebrake.6192:

Vayne.8563:

Kanebrake.6192:

Vayne.8563:

Kanebrake.6192:

Just go look at one of the review sites online for what it’s like to work for Arena Net. Read what former and current employees are saying. Should give everyone some insight into why things are so screwed up in this game.

How many people posted to that site, out of hundreds of employees. You know I’ve had people complain about working for me too. And then, I have people who have told me and still tell me it was the best job they ever had.

Going to a site like that is like going to a forum. The people who have complaints are always the loudest. It proves nothing.

I knew someone would come along and make this very argument. It was inevitable. Fact is that sure there will probably be some people who are just bitter and will complain.

However if you take the time to read what they say even the ones who say it’s the best place in all of God’s creation to work have some of the same “cons” listed. If those were only showing up on the negative reviews you could dismiss them out of hand but they show up on the positive ones as well.

Vayne, Are you an employee or contracted or have any kind of relationship with anyone who works or is contracted by Anet? I ask because after looking through your posting history for the past few weeks you seem to defend pretty much everything Anet does or does not do.

You haven’t looked through enough of my posting history then. There are things I’m definitely against and have spoken out about. In addition, there are dozens and dozens of threads that complain that I don’t post in at all. Mostly because I feel the complaints are fair minded, and worded appropriately.

I simply dislike unfairness and bias. I’ve lived too long and been in too many situations where people have 5% of the story and manufacture the other 95% to suit some person theory. It’s all self fulling prophecy.

People come and say this game is dead or that game is dead. It’s on every forum in the world. People still say it about WoW, which is clearly not dead. Just because someone says something on a forums, doesn’t mean that it’s true.

I’m not defending Anet. I’m trying to point out that some of the attacks we’ve seen (as in someone using the term lying) is at very least hyperbole, but people say it anyway. And I’ll call people on it, not because I disagree with everything said, but because the wording is particularly combative or wrong the way it’s phrased.

Some guy had a long list of complaints recently and I posted in that thread and only replied to one of them. That should tell you something. It means I agreed with the other ones.

And I quote -

after looking through your posting history for the past few weeks…

I did not say I had looked at all 190+ pages of your posting.

But looking at a posting history doesn’t tell the full story. There are negatives posts on page one right now and I’m not in those threads at all. If that doesn’t tell you something, I don’t know what will.

There are sometimes ten negative posts on page one and I post in two of them because I happen to dislike what’s being said in those posts, or how they’re being said, or I disagree with those posts.

That about the other 8 threads I didn’t touch at all.

It’s like looking for viruses in the human body, finding viruses and then claiming there’s nothing but viruses.

I’ve said time and time again people come here to complain and I"m no different. But I only post in the threads I disagree with. There are negative threads I’m not posting in, because what I want said in those has already been said.

It’s just a matter of insufficient research on your part.

Most people would add to the chorus of dissent to make certain that the issue they were unhappy about was front and center in minds of those who can do something about it

Nerelith.7360:

Body of Intent says " X is true.*"

The fine print magic Blurb says " What “X is true” means is.." taken in the context of an mmo.. in the best of all possible worlds we would love to deliver x… and although we were categorical that " x" would be in the game what that really means is, barring any unforseen changes, Board meetings.. memos from NCSoft, vists from the executive junior vice-president in charge of public relations, bad quarter earnings…or any myriad of reasons we cannot go into detail about….. X is true, unless it might be false."

Edit:

When I read a developer Blog, I no longer get excited. I used to, until I learned the maxim of computer gaming. " Until it’s in your hands…it’s vaporware."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

Understood, but as long as they continue to say one thing while meaning something else, with disclaimers that contradict what they say, they will run into the issue we see here.

Of course there are people who will interpret, “we hope to introduce X by the end of the year,” as a promise. It is much easier to counter a claim of promise in that sort of situation.

I mentioned that Anet’s phrasing was a bad idea because that sort of misdirection is not part of a good reciprocal communication. I wouldn’t be surprised to discover that Anet used that form of phrasing because it is so very common in marketing and the like. Still, I am not sure that anyone who wishes to be seen as an honest communicator should be copying, “This supplement will enhance your…<fine print> this supplement has never been demonstrated to enhance X.”

Vayne.8563:

Sithaco.4673:

Vayne.8563:

Sithaco.4673:

I understand that development changes, plans change, due dates change, but it’s because of such a lack of communication that this is a problem. They make a big blog post that lots of MMO websites link to detailing what will be coming in 2013, everyone hears about it and it gets really hyped up, and then some of it doesn’t happen. Sure, this is okay, plans and development change, but the way they communicated this with us was terrible, not everyone is going to see a reply from Arenanet in a single forum post saying that it probably won’t be coming in 2013, thus causing the problem of communication. If they are going to hype something up really big and make everyone hear about it, when plans change they need to make that information just as visible.

Except that a roadmap isn’t hype. They laid out plans and said plans might change. That’s not hype. That’s not even close to hype. If you took what was said at face value, they said they had plans that may change. If you can get hyped about that, more power to you.

They gave us, as I’ve said, other stuff which was just as important. Sure it’s not the same stuff. They specifically said in a post (I don’t have a quote handy) that the stuff they had been planning with the precusors wouldn’t have worked with other changes they made to the game. It’s back to the drawing board.

Are you kidding? How can you say this blog post wasn’t intended to generate hype? It was at a time in the game where we didn’t have a lot of permanent content, and people were getting frustrated, they wanted to put the player base to ease and get them all excited for a bunch of new cool stuff coming out in the next few months.

And yeah, they did give us other stuff, cool stuff, megaserver, the wardrobe system, and that’s okay, I’m not sitting here saying that just because they said we will be getting stuff within the next X amount of time then we HAVE to get it, because I know that development and plans change, which is what they’ve told us happened.

My problem is there hasn’t been much communication about it, it’s something a lot of people are eager for, and we’ve got no idea if it’s coming out this year, next year, the year after, for something that was supposed to come out last year, I think we deserve a bit more information on what’s going on.

Right so let’s look at the whole iterative thing. A company knows they change plans like all the time. It’s how they work. They’ve said it. We should all know it by now.

Then the fans say, but you’re not communicating. You don’t tell us your plans. So they tell us their plans even though they say plans may change, which is what happened.

Do you not recall people pushing them to give us more info, cause I do. They’re kitten ed if they do and kitten ed if they don’t. They give us info too early and it changes and they’re liars, right? They give us no info and they don’t communicate. They give us info and say it’s subject to change and guess what? They’re liars again.

Do you think that’s reasonable…because I sure don’t.

Tell me, in your estimation, which should a creative, iterative company do, if they make plans but don’t always stick to that plan?

BUT, they could tell us about these changes before its released too, that also isn’t done.

Kanebrake.6192:

Vayne.8563:

Kanebrake.6192:

Vayne.8563:

Kanebrake.6192:

Vayne.8563:

Kanebrake.6192:

Just go look at one of the review sites online for what it’s like to work for Arena Net. Read what former and current employees are saying. Should give everyone some insight into why things are so screwed up in this game.

How many people posted to that site, out of hundreds of employees. You know I’ve had people complain about working for me too. And then, I have people who have told me and still tell me it was the best job they ever had.

Going to a site like that is like going to a forum. The people who have complaints are always the loudest. It proves nothing.

I knew someone would come along and make this very argument. It was inevitable. Fact is that sure there will probably be some people who are just bitter and will complain.

However if you take the time to read what they say even the ones who say it’s the best place in all of God’s creation to work have some of the same “cons” listed. If those were only showing up on the negative reviews you could dismiss them out of hand but they show up on the positive ones as well.

Vayne, Are you an employee or contracted or have any kind of relationship with anyone who works or is contracted by Anet? I ask because after looking through your posting history for the past few weeks you seem to defend pretty much everything Anet does or does not do.

You haven’t looked through enough of my posting history then. There are things I’m definitely against and have spoken out about. In addition, there are dozens and dozens of threads that complain that I don’t post in at all. Mostly because I feel the complaints are fair minded, and worded appropriately.

I simply dislike unfairness and bias. I’ve lived too long and been in too many situations where people have 5% of the story and manufacture the other 95% to suit some person theory. It’s all self fulling prophecy.

People come and say this game is dead or that game is dead. It’s on every forum in the world. People still say it about WoW, which is clearly not dead. Just because someone says something on a forums, doesn’t mean that it’s true.

I’m not defending Anet. I’m trying to point out that some of the attacks we’ve seen (as in someone using the term lying) is at very least hyperbole, but people say it anyway. And I’ll call people on it, not because I disagree with everything said, but because the wording is particularly combative or wrong the way it’s phrased.

Some guy had a long list of complaints recently and I posted in that thread and only replied to one of them. That should tell you something. It means I agreed with the other ones.

And I quote -

after looking through your posting history for the past few weeks…

I did not say I had looked at all 190+ pages of your posting.

But looking at a posting history doesn’t tell the full story. There are negatives posts on page one right now and I’m not in those threads at all. If that doesn’t tell you something, I don’t know what will.

There are sometimes ten negative posts on page one and I post in two of them because I happen to dislike what’s being said in those posts, or how they’re being said, or I disagree with those posts.

That about the other 8 threads I didn’t touch at all.

It’s like looking for viruses in the human body, finding viruses and then claiming there’s nothing but viruses.

I’ve said time and time again people come here to complain and I"m no different. But I only post in the threads I disagree with. There are negative threads I’m not posting in, because what I want said in those has already been said.

It’s just a matter of insufficient research on your part.

Most people would add to the chorus of dissent to make certain that the issue they were unhappy about was front and center in minds of those who can do something about it

Depends on how many people say it. If 87 people are shouting something, I don’t need to add my voice to it. I’m not saying anything not already said. Even in the case of defense, I’ll often not say anything if someone said what I was already going to say.

No, I say the stuff people don’t want to hear that no one has said. There’s no real point in jumping on a band wagon in either direction.

If you’ll notice I almost never post in I’m happy I love this game threads either.

Lopez.7369:

I think what’s troubling is how disorganized ArenaNet seems to be from the outside. At the companies I’m familiar with, both inside and outside the game industry, you wouldn’t last very long if you set out on a project and don’t have any progress of note a year and a half later.

How are you defining progress of note?

I’ve personally noticed a lot of progress. Starting all the way back when they introduced the ability to preview trading post stuff, the newer dungeons (to me) are far better than the older ones). Five new fractals. Three new big meta events. An entire season of two week content updates (whether they’re here now or not). An entire new WvW map, new arenas.

The removal of most culling. The account wardrobe and wallet. Some people would say ascended gear is progress as well (it’s certainly progression).

New jumping puzzles. Kessex Hill was almost completely overhauled. Lion’s Arch was destroyed and is being rebuilt differently. Mini games were added. Guild missions were added.

If you think progress is only new classes, new races and new skills and zones, sure there’s been very little progress.

But I see that definition as quite limited.

See, the problem is that it’s entirely plausible these changes are coming within the next month or two. It’s entirely plausible some might come in the next patch. But this thread illustrates the reason why we can’t actually know what the status of these projects is. They assumed last year that they had nothing to lose by announcing rough plans ahead of time, but they have learned that isn’t really the case.

And personally, I’m not an apologist for the company, I just empathize with developers, because anyone who does development has to deal with this sort of thing. Unless you have a ton of money to throw at every project, then you will have a lot of problems meeting hard deadlines without sacrificing quality. Why not just add a second developer on something? Because that basically doubles the cost of that feature, it is an absolute budget killer. The project managers are going to be more worried about that last part than getting a specific feature in place.

So each project is a choice and a decision of what has to take precedence. Also worth noting is that the job market for developers is absolutely KILLER right now. So hiring a new developer is not as easy as it was a few years ago, it costs a lot more and you have to constantly worry about the ones you already have getting poached.

wwwes.1398:

They assumed last year that they had nothing to lose by announcing rough plans ahead of time, but they have learned that isn’t really the case. .

I get where you are coming from, but they did not announce rough plans. Rough plans are not generally described using phrases like, “X will be in the game by the end of the year.” (paraphrasing here of course).

Ashen.2907:

wwwes.1398:

They assumed last year that they had nothing to lose by announcing rough plans ahead of time, but they have learned that isn’t really the case. .

I get where you are coming from, but they did not announce rough plans. Rough plans are not generally described using phrases like, “X will be in the game by the end of the year.” (paraphrasing here of course).

When all you have is them saying “will be,” that’s your fault. Until you see a news article that previews the feature itself, all you have is a statement that as long as plans or circumstances do not change, these things should be in the game. Well guess what, as far as precursor crafting/scavenger hunt goes, BOTH plans and circumstances changed. The circumstances? The way achievements are done for LS changed from typical achievements available from Day One to now only being available if your character has completed that Episode’s Story. The plans? Entirely scrapped and back to step one due to changes in circumstances.

Given what they announced back at the release of the Feature Pack, odds are that the changes to the Story Journal are the very changes that delayed it. So, again, pending any changes in plans or circumstances, they may be able to release it in a couple months or around christmas.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Ashen.2907:

wwwes.1398:

They assumed last year that they had nothing to lose by announcing rough plans ahead of time, but they have learned that isn’t really the case. .

I get where you are coming from, but they did not announce rough plans. Rough plans are not generally described using phrases like, “X will be in the game by the end of the year.” (paraphrasing here of course).

When all you have is them saying “will be,” that’s your fault. Until you see a news article that previews the feature itself, all you have is a statement that as long as plans or circumstances do not change, these things should be in the game.

If they had said, “should be in the game,” this discussion would be moot. They did not. They said, “will be.”

Don’t you think it odd to claim that it is my fault that they said that the features will be in the game ? I can assure you that I did not write their commentary for them.

Again, my point is that it was an unfortunate choice of wording. They would have been better off saying, “we hope to implement, X should be in the game by X, or the like.” They chose something more definitive and are now seeing the consequences.

Ashen.2907:

Aidan Savage.2078:

Ashen.2907:

wwwes.1398:

They assumed last year that they had nothing to lose by announcing rough plans ahead of time, but they have learned that isn’t really the case. .

I get where you are coming from, but they did not announce rough plans. Rough plans are not generally described using phrases like, “X will be in the game by the end of the year.” (paraphrasing here of course).

When all you have is them saying “will be,” that’s your fault. Until you see a news article that previews the feature itself, all you have is a statement that as long as plans or circumstances do not change, these things should be in the game.

If they had said, “should be in the game,” this discussion would be moot. They did not. They said, “will be.”

Don’t you think it odd to claim that it is my fault that they said that the features will be in the game ? I can assure you that I did not write their commentary for them.

Again, my point is that it was an unfortunate choice of wording. They would have been better off saying, “we hope to implement, X should be in the game by X, or the like.” They chose something more definitive and are now seeing the consequences.

But they said, up front that any or all of this might change. Not hidden. Not fine print. I got that from reading that article.

They shouldn’t have published the article at all in my opinion.

Vayne.8563:

But they said, up front that any or all of this might change. Not hidden. Not fine print. I got that from reading that article.

Understood.

Still saying that X is true at one point in the article and then including post script that essentially says X is not true and was never intended to be taken as true is a bad idea. This is similar to those “health” supplement companies that make claims that their product will help with X,Y, and Z condition and then include a disclaimer at the end stating that their product has never been shown to actually do any of the above. The supplement companies are purposefully being misleading. I think that Anet merely made a mistake.

Personally I would love to hear what they are working on, what they would like to do, what they think would work well (and perhaps even why). I do not want them to make definitive statements about what will happen until it is sufficiently close to release as to be reliable.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

But they said, up front that any or all of this might change. Not hidden. Not fine print. I got that from reading that article.

Understood.

Still saying that X is true at one point in the article and then including post script that essentially says X is not true and was never intended to be taken as true is a bad idea. This is similar to those “health” supplement companies that make claims that their product will help with X,Y, and Z condition and then include a disclaimer at the end stating that their product has never been shown to actually do any of the above. The supplement companies are purposefully being misleading. I think that Anet merely made a mistake.

Personally I would love to hear what they are working on, what they would like to do, what they think would work well (and perhaps even why). I do not want them to make definitive statements about what will happen until it is sufficiently close to release as to be reliable.

I could get behind this. They should word it like this.

Here’s a list of stuff that we’re working on which may or may not eventually at some point get into the game. We’ll let you know of something falls off the list.

There is no guaranteed delivery time on any of this.

Lopez.7369:

Of course there’s been great progress in other areas.

But in most companies, if a team leader sets out to do one or more projects, and the projects aren’t completed a year and a half later, a lot of people should expect to be fired.

Now, I’m not saying the ArenaNet developers should be fired. I love the developers, and I wouldn’t wish that on any of them. But there’s clearly something wrong with how the higher-ups are organizing and setting projects.

I do not want them fired. But I want the developers that gave us Guild Wars. If these are them, I want them to become who they used to be… if these people are new people, I want the old people back… what happens with these guys, is entirely up to NCSoft.

I don’t care what anyone says, I remember the ArenaNet that developed Guild Wars, and this company isn’t the same company, it may have the same name..but…Inside it’s not them.

I want the old ArenaNet back.

Nerelith.7360:

Lopez.7369:

Of course there’s been great progress in other areas.

But in most companies, if a team leader sets out to do one or more projects, and the projects aren’t completed a year and a half later, a lot of people should expect to be fired.

Now, I’m not saying the ArenaNet developers should be fired. I love the developers, and I wouldn’t wish that on any of them. But there’s clearly something wrong with how the higher-ups are organizing and setting projects.

I do not want them fired. But I want the developers that gave us Guild Wars. If these are them, I want them to become who they used to be… if these people are new people, I want the old people back… what happens with these guys, is entirely up to NCSoft.

I don’t care what anyone says, I remember the ArenaNet that developed Guild Wars, and this company isn’t the same company, it may have the same name..but…Inside it’s not them.

I want the old ArenaNet back.

It’s not realistic. People change. You can have the same dev doing somethign ten years later, and it’s different. What you really want is a time machine. To go back to when they were what they were. Because people change.

It’s like authors. A guy writes a bunch of great books. Ten books later people say his old stuff was better. They wish he was the old guy.

But he’s not, because time has passed.

Vayne.8563:

Nerelith.7360:

Lopez.7369:

Of course there’s been great progress in other areas.

But in most companies, if a team leader sets out to do one or more projects, and the projects aren’t completed a year and a half later, a lot of people should expect to be fired.

Now, I’m not saying the ArenaNet developers should be fired. I love the developers, and I wouldn’t wish that on any of them. But there’s clearly something wrong with how the higher-ups are organizing and setting projects.

I do not want them fired. But I want the developers that gave us Guild Wars. If these are them, I want them to become who they used to be… if these people are new people, I want the old people back… what happens with these guys, is entirely up to NCSoft.

I don’t care what anyone says, I remember the ArenaNet that developed Guild Wars, and this company isn’t the same company, it may have the same name..but…Inside it’s not them.

I want the old ArenaNet back.

It’s not realistic. People change. You can have the same dev doing somethign ten years later, and it’s different. What you really want is a time machine. To go back to when they were what they were. Because people change.

It’s like authors. A guy writes a bunch of great books. Ten books later people say his old stuff was better. They wish he was the old guy.

But he’s not, because time has passed.

ehh you can keep your talented devs in general if you give them more money, and more outlets for their skills. If they leave, its usually (though not always) because some one else will pay them more for the same thing.

Also you people are missing the point. Promises aside, If your process for solving problems can yeild no results at a stated goal, in a long time period, there is a problem with your process.

Essentially the fact that their process was unable to come up with a good solution, for a problem identified 1.5 years ago is really the bigger problem. This isnt about lawyering what is slander and what is not. This is about players being able to say, something is wrong when you cannot promise me anything, and cannot solve problems we have identified.

The same thing as your signifigant other yelling at you because 1.5 years ago you said you would try to solve a problem as soon as possible, and you still havent solved it. Your failure is still a failure, and not saying you would solve the problem IS NOT THE PROBLEM.
If you never said you would solve the problem, it doesnt change that this was a problem that was identified 1.5 years ago.

This is why the idea of not saying anything as a solution is a false idea, it assumes that the only reason people want/need things is because you say it. Its wanted/needed even if you never say it, not saying anything isnt providing any service, in fact its worse

think on this hypothetical, both you and your wife realize you should stop doing crack,
which way do you think is actually beneficial?
a) say nothing, and try to quit, maybe this way if you keep doing crack, she cant say you lied
b) say you will stop doing crack, but keep doing crack
c) say i know crack is bad, but im going to keep doing it anyway
d) say you will stop doing crack, and then work dillegently to stop doing crack

the answer is D, and the second best answer is probably C.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Nerelith.7360:

Lopez.7369:

Of course there’s been great progress in other areas.

But in most companies, if a team leader sets out to do one or more projects, and the projects aren’t completed a year and a half later, a lot of people should expect to be fired.

Now, I’m not saying the ArenaNet developers should be fired. I love the developers, and I wouldn’t wish that on any of them. But there’s clearly something wrong with how the higher-ups are organizing and setting projects.

I do not want them fired. But I want the developers that gave us Guild Wars. If these are them, I want them to become who they used to be… if these people are new people, I want the old people back… what happens with these guys, is entirely up to NCSoft.

I don’t care what anyone says, I remember the ArenaNet that developed Guild Wars, and this company isn’t the same company, it may have the same name..but…Inside it’s not them.

I want the old ArenaNet back.

It’s not realistic. People change. You can have the same dev doing somethign ten years later, and it’s different. What you really want is a time machine. To go back to when they were what they were. Because people change.

It’s like authors. A guy writes a bunch of great books. Ten books later people say his old stuff was better. They wish he was the old guy.

But he’s not, because time has passed.

ehh you can keep your talented devs in general if you give them more money, and more outlets for their skills. If they leave, its usually (though not always) because some one else will pay them more for the same thing.

Also you people are missing the point. Promises aside, If your process for solving problems can yeild no results at a stated goal, in a long time period, there is a problem with your process.

Essentially the fact that their process was unable to come up with a good solution, for a problem identified 1.5 years ago is really the bigger problem. This isnt about lawyering what is slander and what is not. This is about players being able to say, something is wrong when you cannot promise me anything, and cannot solve problems we have identified.

The same thing as your signifigant other yelling at you because 1.5 years ago you said you would try to solve a problem as soon as possible, and you still havent solved it. Your failure is still a failure, and not saying you would solve the problem IS NOT THE PROBLEM.
If you never said you would solve the problem, it doesnt change that this was a problem that was identified 1.5 years ago.

This is why the idea of not saying anything as a solution is a false idea, it assumes that the only reason people want/need things is because you say it. Its wanted/needed even if you never say it, not saying anything isnt providing any service, in fact its worse

think on this hypothetical, both you and your wife realize you should stop doing crack,
which way do you think is actually beneficial?
a) say nothing, and try to quit, maybe this way if you keep doing crack, she cant say you lied
b) say you will stop doing crack, but keep doing crack
c) say i know crack is bad, but im going to keep doing it anyway
d) say you will stop doing crack, and then work dillegently to stop doing crack

the answer is D, and the second best answer is probably C.

Your metaphors are all very good and nice, but they obscure the point.

It’s NOTHING like what you’re saying it’s like.

They had a problem, for which they identified a solution. The solution wasn’t compatible with other stuff they were doing. They decided to put it on the back burner until this was done.

To you this is a terrible broken thing. The only thing really broken about it was that they said something about what they were working on.

The precusor “problem” isn’t a priority for Anet. Other things take precedence. Like it wouldn’t matter at all if you could have a precursor more easily, if everyone left the game because servers were empty.

So the question becomes at that point what should be the priority. If the precursor problem isn’t an Anet priority (and I’ve seen no reason to believe it is a priority) then other things will take precedence.

The big sin here is even talking about it, when it’s not ready to be talked about.

Vayne.8563:

Your metaphors are all very good and nice, but they obscure the point.

It’s NOTHING like what you’re saying it’s like.

They had a problem, for which they identified a solution. The solution wasn’t compatible with other stuff they were doing. They decided to put it on the back burner until this was done.

To you this is a terrible broken thing. The only thing really broken about it was that they said something about what they were working on.

The precusor “problem” isn’t a priority for Anet. Other things take precedence. Like it wouldn’t matter at all if you could have a precursor more easily, if everyone left the game because servers were empty.

So the question becomes at that point what should be the priority. If the precursor problem isn’t an Anet priority (and I’ve seen no reason to believe it is a priority) then other things will take precedence.

The big sin here is even talking about it, when it’s not ready to be talked about.

I disagree, i dont think you are ever better off not talking about something because you have no solution. You are basically saying that a problem is only a problem if you talk about it. Its simply not true.

If they didnt say they were going to solve the problem, it would still be a problem, a lot of people would still be complaining, or have left. They didnt say it was a problem because they felt like it. People were complaining, people were disastisfied, It kept coming up again and again.

The reason people are complaining now, is because it is still a problem. As far as megaservers being a priority? you do realize, anet said that servers being empty WAS NOT the cause for megaserver. They said it was primarily for load balancing and they thought it was a better system going forward. So it wasnt, according to them, this crisis event that they had to do right now.

Do you think the trait change was also a crisis event? no it really wasnt, in fact i dont think the system is overall better at all in its current implementation. They basically took a suggestion for high endgame goals, and applied it to the trait system very poorly. id say its a net loss.

lack of new skills/not many new traits: thats a big problem, thats something people really want. My guess? the player base would have been way way more energized/happy if that megaserver patch had taken out megaserver and trait, and replaced it with new weapons/skills, and a new endgame progression of cool content towards precursors. In fact these two solutions would likely have reenergized the population, and you would see more people throughout the game on a regular basis. They then could have baked megaservers longer, and had systems in place that need to go with it, like
redefining the role of world choice
specific means for seperation of world/language communication
better solutions and UI for world events within a megaserver system
better means of grouping up and staying together within the megaserver

In fact with good communication, they could have probably prepared players better for this, as well as iterated faster based on consumer feedback.

sorry but really at the end of the day, the lack of communication is not a plus, anet hasnt shown that they can give players what they want without feedback(after launch). And the fear of not being able to live up to what you should do in communication is a weak excuse. The answer is to communicate clearly and more often. People in general will work with you if they see you are making efforts, and even help you along. And yes, you will have to eventually produce something, but the fact is you always needed to produce something, whether you said so or not.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Your metaphors are all very good and nice, but they obscure the point.

It’s NOTHING like what you’re saying it’s like.

They had a problem, for which they identified a solution. The solution wasn’t compatible with other stuff they were doing. They decided to put it on the back burner until this was done.

To you this is a terrible broken thing. The only thing really broken about it was that they said something about what they were working on.

The precusor “problem” isn’t a priority for Anet. Other things take precedence. Like it wouldn’t matter at all if you could have a precursor more easily, if everyone left the game because servers were empty.

So the question becomes at that point what should be the priority. If the precursor problem isn’t an Anet priority (and I’ve seen no reason to believe it is a priority) then other things will take precedence.

The big sin here is even talking about it, when it’s not ready to be talked about.

I disagree, i dont think you are ever better off not talking about something because you have no solution. You are basically saying that a problem is only a problem if you talk about it. Its simply not true.

If they didnt say they were going to solve the problem, it would still be a problem, a lot of people would still be complaining, or have left. They didnt say it was a problem because they felt like it. People were complaining, people were disastisfied, It kept coming up again and again.

The reason people are complaining now, is because it is still a problem. As far as megaservers being a priority? you do realize, anet said that servers being empty WAS NOT the cause for megaserver. They said it was primarily for load balancing and they thought it was a better system going forward. So it wasnt, according to them, this crisis event that they had to do right now.

Do you think the trait change was also a crisis event? no it really wasnt, in fact i dont think the system is overall better at all in its current implementation. They basically took a suggestion for high endgame goals, and applied it to the trait system very poorly. id say its a net loss.

lack of new skills/not many new traits: thats a big problem, thats something people really want. My guess? the player base would have been way way more energized/happy if that megaserver patch had taken out megaserver and trait, and replaced it with new weapons/skills, and a new endgame progression of cool content towards precursors. In fact these two solutions would likely have reenergized the population, and you would see more people throughout the game on a regular basis. They then could have baked megaservers longer, and had systems in place that need to go with it, like
redefining the role of world choice
specific means for seperation of world/language communication
better solutions and UI for world events within a megaserver system
better means of grouping up and staying together within the megaserver

In fact with good communication, they could have probably prepared players better for this, as well as iterated faster based on consumer feedback.

sorry but really at the end of the day, the lack of communication is not a plus, anet hasnt shown that they can give players what they want without feedback(after launch). And the fear of not being able to live up to what you should do in communication is a weak excuse. The answer is to communicate clearly and more often. People in general will work with you if they see you are making efforts, and even help you along. And yes, you will have to eventually produce something, but the fact is you always needed to produce something, whether you said so or not.

I don’t buy this argument at all. You’re postulating that more people will leave this game over not getting a precusor, over the amount of people who will leave this game because of the server issues that previously existed.

Even if I didn’t have a legendary, that’s a cosmetic thing. A long term goal. Not having people on a server? That’s far more important in my opinion. So much more important, it’s not even funny.

It goes back to that whole how many people really do end game content question. How many people just bang around in the open world and kill stuff.

And the other problem of not being able to get on your home server, because everyone else is taking your slot by guesting was another issue.

I’m 100% sure there are people that think the precusor crafting is massively important. I’m thinking some may have even left the game because of it. But by no means do I think that demographic is a big enough group to worry about. And I believe it’s a far small group than people banging around the open world who couldn’t find anyone to do events with.

You can’t really break intentions as they aren’t something fix/clear to break, otherwise it’s a promise…you could call it “intentions – pending ending” or something the sort?

You probably won’t get an ETA from anybody, Anet has a “release when we are happy with it” policy for most things, hasn’t always worked out so well and might have confused and deterred one or the other customer. It’s not a bad approach in theory though in my opinion.

It might come out with “rewards 2.0” or maybe never if its implementation eliminates the need for crafting precursors.

I think Anet got it that something is amiss and their mmorpg turned out not as grand as intended so if they ever decide to overhaul several mechanics at once it’s helpful not having promised anything.

Vayne.8563:

I don’t buy this argument at all. You’re postulating that more people will leave this game over not getting a precusor, over the amount of people who will leave this game because of the server issues that previously existed.

Even if I didn’t have a legendary, that’s a cosmetic thing. A long term goal. Not having people on a server? That’s far more important in my opinion. So much more important, it’s not even funny.

It goes back to that whole how many people really do end game content question. How many people just bang around in the open world and kill stuff.

And the other problem of not being able to get on your home server, because everyone else is taking your slot by guesting was another issue.

I’m 100% sure there are people that think the precusor crafting is massively important. I’m thinking some may have even left the game because of it. But by no means do I think that demographic is a big enough group to worry about. And I believe it’s a far small group than people banging around the open world who couldn’t find anyone to do events with.

except anet specifically said that the problem was not abandoned servers. This either means they are lying, or that wasnt the main cause. You also relealize guesting solved most of the issues, infact megaserver essentially amounts to mandatory guesting?

and you arent just talking about precursors, you are also talking about new skills/traits on a regular basis. (as far as problems they thought to solve by 2013)

As far as endgame goals with a clear progression, a disconnection of players to endgame was one of the FIRST problems that was identified. point is, more content focused and directed at level 80 players goals, is really the main appeal of precursor quests. Its a goal that players accept as being worthwile, and they are willing to do specific content if it gets them closer to that goal. It can be used therefor, as an incentive for interesting content, and enhance player experience. As far as open world people puttering around, i think its most likely whatever precursor solution they had, would end up having something to do with open world.

IE the main point of precursor quest isnt just to give players reliable access to precursors, its to make the game as a whole more rewarding, and give it a clearer progression/goal/and reward content.

heres what you get when you combine new skills/traits and a good precursor quest.

New things to get in the short term that make you feel like you are growing as a charachter, and have novelty/alter your old playstyle, and something to use these new toys on as you try to obtain these long term goals which now are within reach and have a path to achieve.

I believe that, is actually the main thing people want from most games, some new fun toys, and a something fun to use them to do. Restructuring servers so people dont have to hit a guest button, and limiting your old toys for longer, and gating them behind illogical things is not what they really wanted.

but regardless, getting back to the main point, its bad to not say anything when you have a problem, AND its bad to be unable to deliver solutions to problems in long time periods, whether you say something or not. Infact not being able to solve problems in a timely fashion, and not saying something about it, is worse as far as most customers i have seen.

Think about it, really,
customer wants something, then you get it late
a)tell him you are going to get by a date, then say nothing when it doesnt arrive
b)say nothing when he asks about the product when he first asked about it.
c)tell him you are going to get it in, and give updates on how and why its late and when you expect it
d)tell him you will not get that product at all

i think its very clear what the best option as a business is©, that is mostly likely to keep the customer, unless you pass his tolerance for effing up date, but the truth is that date was always there. You delay customer from leaving and saying screw you by communicating intent.

i am postulating that more people will lose trust/leave a service who is unable to solve problems the customer has identified in a timely fashion, or communicate with them whats going on, than would leave if they can solve problems in a timely fashion and communicate with them.

people really could have waited for a well designed megaserver system, they already had working solutions in place (guest to populated servers) ESPECIALLY if anet communicated intent of megaserver, and asked for feedback on its best execution.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t buy this argument at all. You’re postulating that more people will leave this game over not getting a precusor, over the amount of people who will leave this game because of the server issues that previously existed.

Even if I didn’t have a legendary, that’s a cosmetic thing. A long term goal. Not having people on a server? That’s far more important in my opinion. So much more important, it’s not even funny.

It goes back to that whole how many people really do end game content question. How many people just bang around in the open world and kill stuff.

And the other problem of not being able to get on your home server, because everyone else is taking your slot by guesting was another issue.

I’m 100% sure there are people that think the precusor crafting is massively important. I’m thinking some may have even left the game because of it. But by no means do I think that demographic is a big enough group to worry about. And I believe it’s a far small group than people banging around the open world who couldn’t find anyone to do events with.

except anet specifically said that the problem was not abandoned servers. This either means they are lying, or that wasnt the main cause. You also relealize guesting solved most of the issues, infact megaserver essentially amounts to mandatory guesting?

and you arent just talking about precursors, you are also talking about new skills/traits on a regular basis. (as far as problems they thought to solve by 2013)

As far as endgame goals with a clear progression, a disconnection of players to endgame was one of the FIRST problems that was identified. point is, more content focused and directed at level 80 players goals, is really the main appeal of precursor quests. Its a goal that players accept as being worthwile, and they are willing to do specific content if it gets them closer to that goal. It can be used therefor, as an incentive for interesting content, and enhance player experience. As far as open world people puttering around, i think its most likely whatever precursor solution they had, would end up having something to do with open world.

IE the main point of precursor quest isnt just to give players reliable access to precursors, its to make the game as a whole more rewarding, and give it a clearer progression/goal/and reward content.

heres what you get when you combine new skills/traits and a good precursor quest.

New things to get in the short term that make you feel like you are growing as a charachter, and have novelty/alter your old playstyle, and something to use these new toys on as you try to obtain these long term goals which now are within reach and have a path to achieve.

I believe that, is actually the main thing people want from most games, some new fun toys, and a something fun to use them to do. Restructuring servers so people dont have to hit a guest button, and limiting your old toys for longer, and gating them behind illogical things is not what they really wanted.

but regardless, getting back to the main point, its bad to not say anything when you have a problem, AND its bad to be unable to deliver solutions to problems in long time periods, whether you say something or not. Infact not being able to solve problems in a timely fashion, and not saying something about it, is worse as far as most customers i have seen.

Think about it, really,
customer wants something, then you get it late
a)tell him you are going to get by a date, then say nothing when it doesnt arrive
b)say nothing when he asks about the product
c)tell him you are going to get it in, and give updates on how and why its late and when you expect it
d)tell him you will not get that product at all

i think its very clear what the best option as a business is©, that is mostly likely to keep the customer, unless you pass his tolerance for effing up date, but the truth is that date was always there. You delay customer from leaving and saying screw you by communicating intent.

i am postulating that more people will lose trust/leave a service who is unable to solve problems the customer has identified in a timely fashion, or communicate with them whats going on, than would leave if they can solve problems in a timely fashion and communicate with them.

people really could have waited for a well designed megaserver system, they already had working solutions in place (guest to populated servers) ESPECIALLY if anet communicated intent of megaserver, and asked for feedback on its best execution.

Show me this quote where Anet said that, because I sure haven’t seen it. But I have seen many posts about the game being dead. And I haven’t seen many posts about it since the mega server.

In my opinion, the mega server was far more important to the health of the game than precusor crafting will ever be.

Michael Walker.8150:

You can’t really break intentions as they aren’t something fix/clear to break, otherwise it’s a promise…you could call it “intentions – pending ending” or something the sort?

You probably won’t get an ETA from anybody, Anet has a “release when we are happy with it” policy for most things, hasn’t always worked out so well and might have confused and deterred one or the other customer. It’s not a bad approach in theory though in my opinion.

It might come out with “rewards 2.0” or maybe never if its implementation eliminates the need for crafting precursors.

I think Anet got it that something is amiss and their mmorpg turned out not as grand as intended so if they ever decide to overhaul several mechanics at once it’s helpful not having promised anything.

this is, imo a very bad strategy for any service you are providing as a business. It makes sense when you are creating an initial product, but its absolutely horrible when you are providing a continuing service.

basically your process has to adapt to the fact that you now have live customers, with expectations, and rightfully so.

phys.7689:

Michael Walker.8150:

You can’t really break intentions as they aren’t something fix/clear to break, otherwise it’s a promise…you could call it “intentions – pending ending” or something the sort?

You probably won’t get an ETA from anybody, Anet has a “release when we are happy with it” policy for most things, hasn’t always worked out so well and might have confused and deterred one or the other customer. It’s not a bad approach in theory though in my opinion.

It might come out with “rewards 2.0” or maybe never if its implementation eliminates the need for crafting precursors.

I think Anet got it that something is amiss and their mmorpg turned out not as grand as intended so if they ever decide to overhaul several mechanics at once it’s helpful not having promised anything.

this is, imo a very bad strategy for any service you are providing as a business. It makes sense when you are creating an initial product, but its absolutely horrible when you are providing a continuing service.

basically your process has to adapt to the fact that you now have live customers, with expectations, and rightfully so.

But they don’t value us as customers. Instead they see us as gamers. And part of the reason for that is we don’t act like customers. We act like gamers.

How would most of us react to our phone company or local big box store or whatever was treating us like anet does? I’m guessing in short order we’d be furious and demanding to speak with their boss(es).

Kanebrake.6192:

How would most of us react to our phone company or local big box store or whatever was treating us like anet does? I’m guessing in short order we’d be furious and demanding to speak with their boss(es).

Most of us would probably you know, change phone company instead of hanging around and whining about every single thing they do.

But for some reason people can’t do that with this game it seems.

Vayne.8563:

Show me this quote where Anet said that, because I sure haven’t seen it. But I have seen many posts about the game being dead. And I haven’t seen many posts about it since the mega server.

In my opinion, the mega server was far more important to the health of the game than precusor crafting will ever be.

Hmm rereading it, they said servers werent dead, but that they were empty in certain areas, so what you say applies. Still, the solution many players used for that was to simply guest to a different server. Megaserver is basically just forcing everyone to guest to a server, and not calling shards overflows anymore.

pretty sure people would have voted for new skills/traits before they voted for megaserver if given the option. Perhaps they should add more politics to the game, where players can weigh in on development priorities.

lordkrall.7241:

Kanebrake.6192:

How would most of us react to our phone company or local big box store or whatever was treating us like anet does? I’m guessing in short order we’d be furious and demanding to speak with their boss(es).

Most of us would probably you know, change phone company instead of hanging around and whining about every single thing they do.

But for some reason people can’t do that with this game it seems.

No, most people do not just up and change their phone companies. Especially when there are large early termination fees involved.

But people will call over and over and over and over again to complain. They will write letters to the phone company. They will send emails. They will post all over the phones companies forums. They will get a hold of the CEO’s phone number and email and use that.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Show me this quote where Anet said that, because I sure haven’t seen it. But I have seen many posts about the game being dead. And I haven’t seen many posts about it since the mega server.

In my opinion, the mega server was far more important to the health of the game than precusor crafting will ever be.

Hmm rereading it, they said servers werent dead, but that they were empty in certain areas, so what you say applies. Still, the solution many players used for that was to simply guest to a different server. Megaserver is basically just forcing everyone to guest to a server, and not calling shards overflows anymore.

pretty sure people would have voted for new skills/traits before they voted for megaserver if given the option. Perhaps they should add more politics to the game, where players can weigh in on development priorities.

Yep, the mega server puts everyone on equal footing. I’m on TC. During the marionette fight, I couldn’t get on my server. Neither could much of my guild. There were many posts from the top servers with people complaining about it. It wasn’t fair. People guesting to TC, kicking us off.

Servers in general in PvE were the problem. If there is no TC, you can guest to TC, but you can’t say that you are or aren’t on TC. It puts everyone on even footing.

Also, I’m in Australia. I play at all hours. There were many times, even on TC, that I found empty zones in mid level areas. These days at least there are people around, even when I play.

I was becoming increasingly frustrated with the game until the mega server. That saved the game for me.

Kanebrake.6192:

No, most people do not just up and change their phone companies. Especially when there are large early termination fees involved.

But people will call over and over and over and over again to complain. They will write letters to the phone company. They will send emails. They will post all over the phones companies forums. They will get a hold of the CEO’s phone number and email and use that.

I suppose it depends on what kind of people it is.

It is however extremely unlikely that as many people as hang around here (based on % of the playerbase) after they quit playing would hang around a phone company they dislike and do the same.

Either they pay that early terminations fees or they just accept it and wait until the contract is over. Sure a bunch of people will spend most of their free time whining about it, but I doubt it is as high as the amount of people doing it here about this product.

lordkrall.7241:

Kanebrake.6192:

No, most people do not just up and change their phone companies. Especially when there are large early termination fees involved.

But people will call over and over and over and over again to complain. They will write letters to the phone company. They will send emails. They will post all over the phones companies forums. They will get a hold of the CEO’s phone number and email and use that.

I suppose it depends on what kind of people it is.

It is however extremely unlikely that as many people as hang around here (based on % of the playerbase) after they quit playing would hang around a phone company they dislike and do the same.

Either they pay that early terminations fees or they just accept it and wait until the contract is over. Sure a bunch of people will spend most of their free time whining about it, but I doubt it is as high as the amount of people doing it here about this product.

because unlike a phone company, people actually like gw2. its like a friend who is sometimes good and sometimes effs up. but eventually people just say eff it. The people who still complain here are still somewhat engaged, they want to have a reason to come back. thing is a lot of the people who complain, are saying things that people who left didnt say.

Andd some of them did say, i have seen old familiar names in other forums, so yeah they definately have many people who complained, and left when they didnt see results. But regardless i dont think that is really a win for anet.

phys.7689:

lordkrall.7241:

Kanebrake.6192:

No, most people do not just up and change their phone companies. Especially when there are large early termination fees involved.

But people will call over and over and over and over again to complain. They will write letters to the phone company. They will send emails. They will post all over the phones companies forums. They will get a hold of the CEO’s phone number and email and use that.

I suppose it depends on what kind of people it is.

It is however extremely unlikely that as many people as hang around here (based on % of the playerbase) after they quit playing would hang around a phone company they dislike and do the same.

Either they pay that early terminations fees or they just accept it and wait until the contract is over. Sure a bunch of people will spend most of their free time whining about it, but I doubt it is as high as the amount of people doing it here about this product.

because unlike a phone company, people actually like gw2. its like a friend who is sometimes good and sometimes effs up. but eventually people just say eff it. The people who still complain here are still somewhat engaged, they want to have a reason to come back. thing is a lot of the people who complain, are saying things that people who left didnt say.

Andd some of them did say, i have seen old familiar names in other forums, so yeah they definately have many people who complained, and left when they didnt see results. But regardless i dont think that is really a win for anet.

And yet many people in my guild who “left” are now back and playing and enjoying the game. Shrugs.

Your experience doesn’t equal mine.

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Show me this quote where Anet said that, because I sure haven’t seen it. But I have seen many posts about the game being dead. And I haven’t seen many posts about it since the mega server.

In my opinion, the mega server was far more important to the health of the game than precusor crafting will ever be.

Hmm rereading it, they said servers werent dead, but that they were empty in certain areas, so what you say applies. Still, the solution many players used for that was to simply guest to a different server. Megaserver is basically just forcing everyone to guest to a server, and not calling shards overflows anymore.

pretty sure people would have voted for new skills/traits before they voted for megaserver if given the option. Perhaps they should add more politics to the game, where players can weigh in on development priorities.

Yep, the mega server puts everyone on equal footing. I’m on TC. During the marionette fight, I couldn’t get on my server. Neither could much of my guild. There were many posts from the top servers with people complaining about it. It wasn’t fair. People guesting to TC, kicking us off.

Servers in general in PvE were the problem. If there is no TC, you can guest to TC, but you can’t say that you are or aren’t on TC. It puts everyone on even footing.

Also, I’m in Australia. I play at all hours. There were many times, even on TC, that I found empty zones in mid level areas. These days at least there are people around, even when I play.

I was becoming increasingly frustrated with the game until the mega server. That saved the game for me.

well, though i still think megaservers needs a TON of work, mostly on systems that interact with it (communication/communities/dynamic events/ui/grouping) its here now, its a done deal, but there is a ton of problems that still remain unsolved that are causing player loss/disastisfaction. They need to come up with some schedules for these things and imo get feedback on their solutions, and give feedback as to the whens and the whyfores.

Regardless of what they do, i dont think this system of communication, and the turnaround time on known issues/features is a good thing. (fractal reset for leaderboards which still dont exist?)

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Show me this quote where Anet said that, because I sure haven’t seen it. But I have seen many posts about the game being dead. And I haven’t seen many posts about it since the mega server.

In my opinion, the mega server was far more important to the health of the game than precusor crafting will ever be.

Hmm rereading it, they said servers werent dead, but that they were empty in certain areas, so what you say applies. Still, the solution many players used for that was to simply guest to a different server. Megaserver is basically just forcing everyone to guest to a server, and not calling shards overflows anymore.

pretty sure people would have voted for new skills/traits before they voted for megaserver if given the option. Perhaps they should add more politics to the game, where players can weigh in on development priorities.

Yep, the mega server puts everyone on equal footing. I’m on TC. During the marionette fight, I couldn’t get on my server. Neither could much of my guild. There were many posts from the top servers with people complaining about it. It wasn’t fair. People guesting to TC, kicking us off.

Servers in general in PvE were the problem. If there is no TC, you can guest to TC, but you can’t say that you are or aren’t on TC. It puts everyone on even footing.

Also, I’m in Australia. I play at all hours. There were many times, even on TC, that I found empty zones in mid level areas. These days at least there are people around, even when I play.

I was becoming increasingly frustrated with the game until the mega server. That saved the game for me.

well, though i still think megaservers needs a TON of work, mostly on systems that interact with it (communication/communities/dynamic events/ui/grouping) its here now, its a done deal, but there is a ton of problems that still remain unsolved that are causing player loss/disastisfaction. They need to come up with some schedules for these things and imo get feedback on their solutions, and give feedback as to the whens and the whyfores.

Regardless of what they do, i dont think this system of communication, and the turnaround time on known issues/features is a good thing. (fractal reset for leaderboards which still dont exist?)

I agree that Anet needs to get better at communicating. I agree that the megaserver is only just a start and needs a lot of work. But I really believe they couldn’t have waited on it.

The game needs to be improved in a lot of ways. But after playing some of the other newer titles of MMOs, I’m not terribly worried for the future of Guild Wars 2.

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

lordkrall.7241:

Kanebrake.6192:

No, most people do not just up and change their phone companies. Especially when there are large early termination fees involved.

But people will call over and over and over and over again to complain. They will write letters to the phone company. They will send emails. They will post all over the phones companies forums. They will get a hold of the CEO’s phone number and email and use that.

I suppose it depends on what kind of people it is.

It is however extremely unlikely that as many people as hang around here (based on % of the playerbase) after they quit playing would hang around a phone company they dislike and do the same.

Either they pay that early terminations fees or they just accept it and wait until the contract is over. Sure a bunch of people will spend most of their free time whining about it, but I doubt it is as high as the amount of people doing it here about this product.

because unlike a phone company, people actually like gw2. its like a friend who is sometimes good and sometimes effs up. but eventually people just say eff it. The people who still complain here are still somewhat engaged, they want to have a reason to come back. thing is a lot of the people who complain, are saying things that people who left didnt say.

Andd some of them did say, i have seen old familiar names in other forums, so yeah they definately have many people who complained, and left when they didnt see results. But regardless i dont think that is really a win for anet.

And yet many people in my guild who “left” are now back and playing and enjoying the game. Shrugs.

Your experience doesn’t equal mine.

That just goes to show that there’s nothing else out there not that GW2 is the best possible product it can be.

I live in an area with one land line phone company. One internet company. They happen to be the same telco. Lot of people will switch to a wireless carrier but when they find out that the wireless carrier doesn’t work in their homes they go back to the one landline phone company. That doesn’t mean they are happy with the phone company just that they have no other options that serves their needs.

Kanebrake.6192:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

lordkrall.7241:

Kanebrake.6192:

No, most people do not just up and change their phone companies. Especially when there are large early termination fees involved.

But people will call over and over and over and over again to complain. They will write letters to the phone company. They will send emails. They will post all over the phones companies forums. They will get a hold of the CEO’s phone number and email and use that.

I suppose it depends on what kind of people it is.

It is however extremely unlikely that as many people as hang around here (based on % of the playerbase) after they quit playing would hang around a phone company they dislike and do the same.

Either they pay that early terminations fees or they just accept it and wait until the contract is over. Sure a bunch of people will spend most of their free time whining about it, but I doubt it is as high as the amount of people doing it here about this product.

because unlike a phone company, people actually like gw2. its like a friend who is sometimes good and sometimes effs up. but eventually people just say eff it. The people who still complain here are still somewhat engaged, they want to have a reason to come back. thing is a lot of the people who complain, are saying things that people who left didnt say.

Andd some of them did say, i have seen old familiar names in other forums, so yeah they definately have many people who complained, and left when they didnt see results. But regardless i dont think that is really a win for anet.

And yet many people in my guild who “left” are now back and playing and enjoying the game. Shrugs.

Your experience doesn’t equal mine.

That just goes to show that there’s nothing else out there not that GW2 is the best possible product it can be.

I live in an area with one land line phone company. One internet company. They happen to be the same telco. Lot of people will switch to a wireless carrier but when they find out that the wireless carrier doesn’t work in their homes they go back to the one landline phone company. That doesn’t mean they are happy with the phone company just that they have no other options that serves their needs.

This is true. But you have to also ask yourself, if none of the new games are decent or better, why is that? Do people truly have reasonable expectations.

I’ll go out on a limb and say that everyone who uses a phone as basically similar needs. They need to talk, they need to be heard, they need to transmit and receive data.

But that’s not the case in an MMO. I can almost guarantee that if Anet made the absolute perfect game for me, you’d not like it as much. And I can likewise guarantee if they made the perfect game for you, I’d not like it as much.

The fact is, these games are so complex and offer so much, that they can’t be all things to all people, which is why people get kittened off. I’ve always wanted a game where the open world meant something. That doesn’t really happen so much in WoW or Rift. They’re games that center on and focus on raids. That was certainly true at least when I played them.

This game is a game I can play that I enjoy. It’s not perfect, but the things that aren’t perfect about it for me are things others like. I’m not a huge fan of dungeons, but if they took dungeons out of the game, people would complain. I’m not a big fan of SPvP but if you took that out of the game people would complain. You can’t really compare a phone company, which offers a limited selection of services that are fairly straightforward, with an MMO which has to appeal to people on so many different levels.

This game isn’t my perfect MMO. It’s just better for me than any other MMO.

However, I don’t believe that for my tastes, there’ll be a better MMO for a long time.

phys.7689:

snip

Kanebrake.6192:

snip

I think it’s an acceptable to great strategy to develop “in secret”, depending on whether or not the tactics within that work, like apple shows.

And yes, they should adjust to the live environment and they have with CDI and balance patches. The changes were little sometimes and weird (the atlas) but that’s not necessarily indicative of a bad strategy (which is series-like content financed through cosmetics).

Judging from the content over the past 2 years though there must have been some sort of convoluted nonsense going on between the different teams resulting in some really weird discrepancy between the quality of the sum and of it’s parts, inverse emergence of quality somehow.
It really doesn’t help that GW2 is_such_a beautiful game!

Seems like some of that internal nonsense is gone, having played the new LS. While shorter in story than I hoped for, it is leaps ahead of LS1 and the second half of personal story.

So yes, getting general user feedback might have helped while GW2 was pre-alpha and surely in beta, the system we have now doesn’t have to be bad is all I’m saying. Arenanet decides what topics are up to feedback (CDI) and then we contribute. The steps Anet has taken always seemed very small and evolutionary to me and changing the highest end game reward won’t happen on a whim (read: perhaps longer than a year).
Also it is related to crafting, so any mentioning of T6 used in crafting (for instance) would make the TP go nuts and the TP has been a huge concern in many changes they have made.

It’s unfortunate that many players, including me, thought it was more of a promise to get precursor crafting into the game but ultimately if it was ready and they decided against, there must have been a reason (new reward structure).

Now about the customer/gamer thing

Most of us here are gamers first and foremost. customers (who buy gems) might not be in the forums and I’m sure Anet measures income gained from gem sales to see if most customers are “happy”/willing to pay.
Sure, there are some customers here as well.
CocaCola won’t change a product more likely even when they get books of the most eloquent reviews and critiques.
Gw2 is now an international game as well, the english forum got even tinier of a fraction of the players.

If you are a gamustomer (yes!) and you seriously feel like you are being cheated for your money or so unsatisfied that it bothers you to extend you can’t take it anymore, I think you should go for the publisher, the ceo’s and heads of the company.

And I don’t mean this sarcastically, it would probably be the most efficient way to express serious concern; if you feel like not buying gems isn’t enough.

clarifications: I’m nowhere saying forum feedback is bad or couldn’t lead to great changes, the opposite is possible too though.

I also think that both great feedback is being read but more should be read more often by more people.

I can’t find it now but I was reading a thread a few days ago where someone was talking about how they hate the new content, and how it’s geared at casuals and casuals are ruining this game.

Mainly to do with LS etc…

I couldn’t reply cause on mobile, BUT; Irony!

I am a casual, a filthy disgusting casual and I would have agreed with 100% of the dudes post. So my question is, why so assuming? Also I would think that the LS format and everything involved with it would be even WORSE for casual players.

Any casuals care to comment?

It’s just like those people who thought I sucked at JP’s just because I didn’t like Drytop.
That’s like saying you suck at your job because you don’t LOVE it.

Oh boy another one of these threads! I wonder if this can now be thrown into the ‘what to expect weekly’ hat, along with duels, mounts, housing, etc. Where’d I put the popcorn?

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again… kitten happens when it comes to development. You can want to do ‘x.’ Do the research, spend hours working on implementation, then ‘y’ changes, and you can no longer to do ‘x’ as originally intended. It sucks. It probably shouldn’t necessarily be that dependent, but it is. It’s just how this kitten works. Sometimes, it makes you want to simply pull your hair out. That’s why pretty much any developer will always tell you “its subject to change” because you just never know.

Even the best laid plans are subject to change. It happens in our daily lives, not just development. You plan on taking your kid to the park “tomorrow” and you tell them as such, but then it rains. Now your kid is let down because you intended to do something, but due to something else it’s just not possible. Doesn’t mean it won’t happen. Just means it won’t happen as originally planned.

@Omar
This casual likes the LS for the most part. Even the temporary LS1 was doable by someone that only played a few hours a week. It wasn’t the best, but I’d argue (and I have) that it got better as it progressed.

I don’t agree that ‘catering to casuals’ ruins the game because even ‘casuals’ desire skilled content. I, and several others, have expressed a desire for skilled content. The issue tends to boil down to one camp seems to think that ‘skilled content’ needs to require 10k hours of grind in order to get the shiny, thus punishing those that don’t play 10+ hours a day. Casual != bad. People need to let go of the misconception.

I like Dry Top, and I liked Cliffs. I absolutely suck at JPs, but I still liked those areas. They were fresh, interesting, and fun. (Even if they did add a few hundred deaths to my tally)

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I don’t agree that ‘catering to casuals’ ruins the game because even ‘casuals’ desire skilled content. I, and several others, have expressed a desire for skilled content. The issue tends to boil down to one camp seems to think that ‘skilled content’ needs to require 10k hours of grind in order to get the shiny, thus punishing those that don’t play 10+ hours a day. Casual != bad. People need to let go of the misconception.

This game can easily have both casual and hardcore content
Simple concepts like adding vet dungs/timed dung runs to recieve better rewards than the useless junk we have had for nearly 2 years

I’m sure your being sarcastic, but If you are implying hardcore MMO players want content that requires 10k hours of grind… well i dunno what to tell you.. I’ve got over 2k hours and I’m still searching for my first freaking precur / fractal skin.
Right now, the good juicy stuff like precursor/fractal skins is completely 100% RNG or hidden behind a paywall in the gemstore.

Guess what i have to do right now in GW2 If i want those nice shinnies? GRIND FOR ENDLESS HOURS farming scraps and gold to eventually buy a precursor from the TP… Yea thats challenging/fun content… /rolls eyes

If you feel like your being punished for not playing 10 hours a day… well guess what, thats how the world we live in works.

People who do things for longer amount of time WILL GET MORE REWARDS.

If you only have 1-2 hours a day to spend and start crying that someone who plays 10+ hours is ahead of you well thats your own fault for being a child… ofc hes going to be ahead of you, thats how things are supposed to work. You put in more hours, you get more than someone who puts in less. It should never be equal, that’s utterly stupid.