Guild Wars 2

Chris Whiteside.6102:

— Role Diversification: ‘Grail Quest’ (Personal rights of passage) style adventures through the open world (testing the player in combat, discovery, and puzzle solving) which others can engage in once the activities are activated which could reward the Hero with New skills/traits, new weapons, access to inaccessible existing weapons, and infusions.

Hey Chris, first of all: Thanks for your interest shown in this CDI.
The way you wrote this segment makes me wonder if this CDI has been around for too long. What about the dozens of people who promoted additional (and optional) weapon skill modifications?

I feel as if this CDI revolved around topics I don’t really care much about over the past 30 pages… (I have to admit that I stopped at 26 and only read one in two pages after that) Mounts, player housing. Those are all fun and games and I cannot say a thing against them. Unless it’s priority-wise.
__________________________________________________________________
I wish you would add additional weapon skills on that list, because I feel that those are more important than let’s say entirely new weapons. Is it something you didn’t see since it was a hot topic early on?
Or maybe I misinterpreted your post?
I would very much like to hear about optional weapon skills to alternate my action bar since sometimes single skills don’t really fit one’s playstyle.

Regards,
DIVA

VOLKON.1290:

Devata.6589:

“First of all it is an option because if you think it takes too long -take a way point.
I don’t understand how you can complain about taking too long and then in the same breath in another post say, that we do not have time to check the scenery- or that there are no interesting places to explore.“

It was all based on the idea of removing way-points or having maps without way-points. In that case walking would take to long. I think you missed the beginning of that discussion, that might be why you are confused about this.

Not that I want to go into the mount discussion again but I will answer your comment.
Like I commented on VOLKON here https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Character-Progression-Horizontal/3490392

I still don’t see the terrain as any problem. Yeah you would not do a JP on a mount no. We have many animals that already walk like mounts do… or run like mounts do.

Yes there are many mounts in the game. We have cars, bikes (and actively building them), we have airships, air balloons (now above you in LA), normal ships, helicopters, transport vehicles (Dredge), horse carriages (Being used to get supply to Kessex Hills for toxic LS), on this image you see people riding horses https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/january-2013/ , we have dolyaks used to carry supply and brooms we can already mount on. The whole game is full of mounds. So from that lore view it does not even make sense we don’t have them. Not sure how you can see they are.

“Take a look at the races for example- the Norn, Charr and Asura.
Both the Norn and the Charr would see it as an insult to ride a mount because it implies they are to weak to use their legs, the Asura would see it as an insult to their intelligence because they made gates after all.“ Really? Just say you don’t like mounts thats fine. Charr have an active factory building mounts and I have seen Charr and Norn on airships I have have seen them all on brooms.

About the humans. Nowhere in there lore with the exception of all the horse carriages all over Tyria?

I find it humorous that you’re using as an example a piece of art that shows a horse, yet there’s no one riding any mounts in the artwork, just beasts of burden.

Mounts don’t fit in GW2. They don’t fit with the fast travel system, they don’t fit with the lore no matter how you try and twist things around. You don’t see the NPCs riding all over the place on mounts. You see two things… war machines and beasts of burden. Well, three if you include ships, however ships are not personal mounts. Mass transport systems are also not mounts, i.e. balloons, etc.

You keep mentioning these “horse carriages” all over Tyria, but for the life of me I can’t recall seeing a single one yet.

Really don’t want to go into this discussion again but here is a link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWmwrYRkIdE
At the picture I did show you look left front (can’t really mis it),
And at Thunder Ridge Camp you can see a horse carriage that has just moved there.

Now lets drop mounts for this thread. Might be something for a future CDI.

Mimizu.7340:

I see so many animals in the game that I would like to charm into a ranger pet yet the game only allows me a small portion of them.

Ranger pets need expanding to include all the working animals in the game.

I would like a Stag pet, for example.

(and i miss the zoo island from gw)

That is one of the elements I touched on with the RP part of horizontel progression here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Character-Progression-Horizontal/page/63#post3494474

It´s not yet on the proposal list. Hope Chris will adds that soon. Think the RP (or casual or whatever you name it) horizontal progression is pretty much non-existing in GW2 and it could make huge steps there.

Nike.2631:

Devata.6589:

Yes and no. Doing it in an instance would feel not as world changing as it did with the open world event. But they should indeed make a better system. The idea was great but the fact that it did only happen at once specific time was a problem.

We already have an overflow system. Maybe work with server before and after the change and have an event running every hour for 24 hours. When you log in and you did not have the event yet you will be put in a overflow that will soon start with the event.

In addition I would record the first event per server. Literally record it. Then put that in some log-file you can see back. The people that where there might even see them-self. That would really give the feeling of being part of it.

Then after such a event leave behind content.

I would love that.. You have a living world indeed where you see things change but no temporary achievements or rewards. That stuff is all added after the change.

In a way Karka invasion and then going to the island is how imho the LS should have been. Of course there where some technical difficulties that have to been solved.

You might find this solution interesting if you hadn’t seen it before .

Yeah I think that would be a way to solve it. However linking rewards or achievements to it would then not be good in my vision. I think you talk about a reward for top 10 builders or something. Except for that I do like it.

Devata.6589:

VOLKON.1290:

Devata.6589:

“First of all it is an option because if you think it takes too long -take a way point.
I don’t understand how you can complain about taking too long and then in the same breath in another post say, that we do not have time to check the scenery- or that there are no interesting places to explore.“

It was all based on the idea of removing way-points or having maps without way-points. In that case walking would take to long. I think you missed the beginning of that discussion, that might be why you are confused about this.

Not that I want to go into the mount discussion again but I will answer your comment.
Like I commented on VOLKON here https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Character-Progression-Horizontal/3490392

I still don’t see the terrain as any problem. Yeah you would not do a JP on a mount no. We have many animals that already walk like mounts do… or run like mounts do.

Yes there are many mounts in the game. We have cars, bikes (and actively building them), we have airships, air balloons (now above you in LA), normal ships, helicopters, transport vehicles (Dredge), horse carriages (Being used to get supply to Kessex Hills for toxic LS), on this image you see people riding horses https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/january-2013/ , we have dolyaks used to carry supply and brooms we can already mount on. The whole game is full of mounds. So from that lore view it does not even make sense we don’t have them. Not sure how you can see they are.

“Take a look at the races for example- the Norn, Charr and Asura.
Both the Norn and the Charr would see it as an insult to ride a mount because it implies they are to weak to use their legs, the Asura would see it as an insult to their intelligence because they made gates after all.“ Really? Just say you don’t like mounts thats fine. Charr have an active factory building mounts and I have seen Charr and Norn on airships I have have seen them all on brooms.

About the humans. Nowhere in there lore with the exception of all the horse carriages all over Tyria?

I find it humorous that you’re using as an example a piece of art that shows a horse, yet there’s no one riding any mounts in the artwork, just beasts of burden.

Mounts don’t fit in GW2. They don’t fit with the fast travel system, they don’t fit with the lore no matter how you try and twist things around. You don’t see the NPCs riding all over the place on mounts. You see two things… war machines and beasts of burden. Well, three if you include ships, however ships are not personal mounts. Mass transport systems are also not mounts, i.e. balloons, etc.

You keep mentioning these “horse carriages” all over Tyria, but for the life of me I can’t recall seeing a single one yet.

Really don’t want to go into this discussion again but here is a link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWmwrYRkIdE
At the picture I did show you look left front (can’t really mis it),
And at Thunder Ridge Camp you can see a horse carriage that has just moved there.

Not lets drop mounts for this thread. Might be something for a future CDI.

So, a chopper that can’t fly (and is too big for a personal mount anyhow), a horse in a painting without a rider and an apparent “horse carriage” that I’ve yet to see (you sure it’s not a dolyak carriage) but would still indicate beast of burden instead of mount, and these are the justifications you’re using to say mounts are part of the lore?

Yeah, we need to drop this discussion. Definitely.

I just want to voice a concern regarding the CDI process. I’m not entirely sure if it belongs here, but I don’t feel it’s worth starting a new topic to voice my concern.

There’s obviously going to be a lot of ideas thrown about, and some of them are going to be good. I hope the best ideas aren’t shelved because they’re implementation would be resource-intensive (time, money, man-power, etc).

Let’s take furniture for player housing as an example. This is just an example, so don’t read too much into it. For the sake of argument let’s pretend a furniture-making craft is the consensus best/funnest way to decorate a player’s house. Again, this is just an example; I’m not claiming it is the best method. Adding a new craft would involve a lot of work: new crafting discipline, new master crafters, new crafting stations, crafting AI tweaks, new recipes to be discovered, new recipes to be bought with karma, etc. The alternative of just adding vendors in-game or selling them via the cash shop would require far fewer resources to implement.

In this scenario the easy route is much quicker, easier, and cheaper to get in the game. But the crafting route would be much more rewarding to the players (hypothetically). I would hope the developers are better than the players in that they’re not looking for the proverbial “path of least resistance”. I would hope that quality and fun, not cost and ease of implementation, would be the determining factor on what suggestions from the CDI are considered.

Okay, feel free to return to your regularly scheduled discussion.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

Here is the proposal I believe we are making, please discuss and let me know if anything should be added or removed. Note many of us have read the thread internally and thus there has already been valuable impact.

Our Horizontal Progression Proposal

The Reward and Associated Journey

— Sociopolitical Diversification: Player housing (Customizable from rewards gained in the open world), Guild Halls (Customizable from mass play rewards) and Map Wide Meta events unlocked through Faction progression (Leading to both individual and group rewards such as titles and skins)

— Role Diversification: ‘Grail Quest’ (Personal rights of passage) style adventures through the open world (testing the player in combat, discovery, and puzzle solving) which others can engage in once the activities are activated which could reward the Hero with New skills/traits, new weapons, access to inaccessible existing weapons, and infusions.

— Hero Recognition (Reward) is a by product of the above two types of Horizontal Progression leading to Unique Skins, Titles, Rewards, followers and NPC reactions/opportunities based on the players individual feats in the world of Tyria regardless of how he/she chooses to play the game.

Global Rule Proposal governing the above:

- Where possible use the above design paradigm to reinforce and evolve the existing world.
- Players should be able to have multiple methods of achieving ‘Grail Quests’, rather than a section of the journey being based on Jumping Puzzles and that alone for example.
-A reworked (cleaner) version of Signet of Capture would work very well for Role Diversification.
- Sub-classes will be discussed again in a CDI once Arena finishes its current balance work in regard to roles.
- QOL features such as a wardrobe should support this global design.

Once we have discussed the proposal and the thread reaches conclusion we will sticky it and move onto CDI Process Evolution Phase 2.

Note this is the formulation of a collaborative proposal for discussion. Once the proposal is finalized it will be discussed internally. However there will be no promise of associated actions or schedule.

Thank you all so much for your hard work and your passion toward making GW2 awesome. This has been a really good CDI and I want to thank you on behalf of Arena for caring so much about the world we love.

Chris

Most of this sounds good to me. However, I would like to add that when it comes to faction and global dominance work, please don’t break my ability to use merchants and other such NPCs as it did in Factions.

Example – Being Kurzick aligned, but happen to be ‘holding’ more (or an equal amount of) Luxon faction points (for any number of reasons), and as such no Kurzick npc will interact with me. At which point, the choices are….find a luxon area merchant or go to an unaligned merchant. Either of which could be potentially out of my way, and just a bit of a hassle.

“— Sociopolitical Diversification: Player housing (Customizable from rewards gained in the open world), Guild Halls (Customizable from mass play rewards) and Map Wide Meta events unlocked through Faction progression (Leading to both individual and group rewards such as titles and skins)”

Yes please, for the love of the Six, yes please! RPers have been begging for this since launch.

darkace.8925:

I just want to voice a concern regarding the CDI process. I’m not entirely sure if it belongs here, but I don’t feel it’s worth starting a new topic to voice my concern.

There’s obviously going to be a lot of ideas thrown about, and some of them are going to be good. I hope the best ideas aren’t shelved because they’re implementation would be resource-intensive (time, money, man-power, etc).

Let’s take furniture for player housing as an example. This is just an example, so don’t read too much into it. For the sake of argument let’s pretend a furniture-making craft is the consensus best/funnest way to decorate a player’s house. Again, this is just an example; I’m not claiming it is the best method. Adding a new craft would involve a lot of work: new crafting discipline, new master crafters, new crafting stations, crafting AI tweaks, new recipes to be discovered, new recipes to be bought with karma, etc. The alternative of just adding vendors in-game or selling them via the cash shop would require far fewer resources to implement.

In this scenario the easy route is much quicker, easier, and cheaper to get in the game. But the crafting route would be much more rewarding to the players (hypothetically). I would hope the developers are better than the players in that they’re not looking for the proverbial “path of least resistance”. I would hope that quality and fun, not cost and ease of implementation, would be the determining factor on what suggestions from the CDI are considered.

Okay, feel free to return to your regularly scheduled discussion.

I would suggest pocketing this thought for now and bringing it out again when the second “CDI Process Evolution” thread launches shortly – it’ll be extremely topical there .

Chris Whiteside.6102:

— Role Diversification: ‘Grail Quest’ (Personal rights of passage) style adventures through the open world (testing the player in combat, discovery, and puzzle solving) which others can engage in once the activities are activated which could reward the Hero with New skills/traits, NEW WEAPONS, access to inaccessible existing weapons, and infusions.

I love most of the stuff you mentioned and I’m really looking forward to them… BUT I think New Weapons should be available from the start, and not after completing a challenge.
I mean, if Halberds are suddenly added to the game, I’d like to try them immediately. Also, I would expect new weapons to be easily available to low-level characters.

Thank you for reading.

Jandopo.2107:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

— Role Diversification: ‘Grail Quest’ (Personal rights of passage) style adventures through the open world (testing the player in combat, discovery, and puzzle solving) which others can engage in once the activities are activated which could reward the Hero with New skills/traits, NEW WEAPONS, access to inaccessible existing weapons, and infusions.

I love most of the stuff you mentioned and I’m really looking forward to them… BUT I think New Weapons should be available from the start, and not after completing a challenge.
I mean, if Halberds are suddenly added to the game, I’d like to try them immediately. Also, I would expect them to be easily available to low-level characters.

Thank you for reading.

Hopefully he meant “new weapon skills”. I myself would welcome the ability to customize my weapon skills with open arms and a joyous heart.

Reading the final proposal again, I’m certain/hopeful that the thing I’m about to mention will be covered by the other points. But still I’m writing it down, just in case! Hey, it might get its own glorious bullet point in the finalized proposal:

drumrolls

Roleplay elements! I bet that you’ll add quite some new things in the future, Bits of lore to discover while exploring, an ingame lore encyclopaedia, maybe artifacts to collect from 250 years ago for nostalgia. What about ..

Making your way through the dense forest you reach a clearing, the site occupied by crumbling ruins. It must have been long, since someone last set foot here. According to its layout, this was likely a fortress or garrison, so many years ago.

But what’s that?

Your eye falls upon a small half-buried object, its metal surface dimly reflecting the light of the setting sun. You brush off the mud and grime carefully as in not to damage it. Slowly, the badge’s inscription becomes visible. You are certain you’ve seen that sigil before in Queensdale, on one of the ruffians near the hunting lodge.

Congratulations! You have found a White Mantle Badge!

The Lore tab in your hero panel lights up, to warn you that a new entry has been made. You click on it to reveal details on the object you just uncovered, along with a sketch of the sigil that it contains. The page contains some info about the reign of the White Mantle before its defeat, 250 years ago. On the newly unlocked White Mantle page are 14 empty slots (as the badge you found now nicely occupies the 15th), for other artifacts and relics linked to the White Mantle. On mouseover, each of the slots displays its rumoured location, and perhaps a cryptic hint. With each item of the White Mantle collection you will find, you unlock a little more history about the item itself or the organisation. After finding them all, you unlock something. Perhaps the Confessor title, a White Mantle Knight mini, or a White Mantle costume.

On to the next page! Hmm, is that a faded Shining Blade emblem carved in that tree? ..

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

Here is the proposal I believe we are making, please discuss and let me know if anything should be added or removed. Note many of us have read the thread internally and thus there has already been valuable impact.

Our Horizontal Progression Proposal

The Reward and Associated Journey

— Sociopolitical Diversification: Player housing (Customizable from rewards gained in the open world), Guild Halls (Customizable from mass play rewards) and Map Wide Meta events unlocked through Faction progression (Leading to both individual and group rewards such as titles and skins)

— Role Diversification: ‘Grail Quest’ (Personal rights of passage) style adventures through the open world (testing the player in combat, discovery, and puzzle solving) which others can engage in once the activities are activated which could reward the Hero with New skills/traits, new weapons, access to inaccessible existing weapons, and infusions.

— Hero Recognition (Reward) is a by product of the above two types of Horizontal Progression leading to Unique Skins, Titles, Rewards, followers and NPC reactions/opportunities based on the players individual feats in the world of Tyria regardless of how he/she chooses to play the game.

Global Rule Proposal governing the above:

- Where possible use the above design paradigm to reinforce and evolve the existing world.
- Players should be able to have multiple methods of achieving ‘Grail Quests’, rather than a section of the journey being based on Jumping Puzzles and that alone for example.
-A reworked (cleaner) version of Signet of Capture would work very well for Role Diversification.
- Sub-classes will be discussed again in a CDI once Arena finishes its current balance work in regard to roles.
- QOL features such as a wardrobe should support this global design.

Once we have discussed the proposal and the thread reaches conclusion we will sticky it and move onto CDI Process Evolution Phase 2.

Note this is the formulation of a collaborative proposal for discussion. Once the proposal is finalized it will be discussed internally. However there will be no promise of associated actions or schedule.

Thank you all so much for your hard work and your passion toward making GW2 awesome. This has been a really good CDI and I want to thank you on behalf of Arena for caring so much about the world we love.

Chris

Bump. The following reminder added:

Note this is the formulation of a collaborative proposal for discussion. Once the proposal is finalized it will be discussed internally. However there will be no promise of associated actions or schedule.

Chris

Here is one question and i am sure the answer is predictable.

A lot of the things mentioned are very common and very much liked by players of any MMO.
I know you got your own plans and some things have to be taken care of at first, however how come that some of the more “simpler” and obvious elements were not part of the start package?

Were things like Guild Halls just so obvious that they did not the final cut as the release date came? Everyone wanted these and you stated they will come at some point.
Did you just feel not up to the task at the time? Was the live status of the game and the following redesign of the whole production the reason for that?

Some of the things in this thread are no big secret. So was it only time and manpower missing?

Gaebriel.3754:

Reading the final proposal again, I’m certain/hopeful that the thing I’m about to mention will be covered by the other points. But still I’m writing it down, just in case! Hey, it might get its own glorious bullet point in the finalized proposal:

drumrolls

Roleplay elements! I bet that you’ll add quite some new things in the future, Bits of lore to discover while exploring, an ingame lore encyclopaedia, maybe artifacts to collect from 250 years ago for nostalgia. What about ..

Making your way through the dense forest you reach a clearing, the site occupied by crumbling ruins. It must have been long, since someone last set foot here. According to its layout, this was likely a fortress or garrison, so many years ago.

But what’s that?

Your eye falls upon a small half-buried object, its metal surface dimly reflecting the light of the setting sun. You brush off the mud and grime carefully as in not to damage it. Slowly, the badge’s inscription becomes visible. You are certain you’ve seen that sigil before in Queensdale, on one of the ruffians near the hunting lodge.

Congratulations! You have found a White Mantle Badge!

The Lore tab in your hero panel lights up, to warn you that a new entry has been made. You click on it to reveal details on the object you just uncovered, along with a sketch of the sigil that it contains. The page contains some info about the reign of the White Mantle before its defeat, 250 years ago. On the newly unlocked White Mantle page are 14 empty slots (as the badge you found now nicely occupies the 15th), for other artifacts and relics linked to the White Mantle. On mouseover, each of the slots displays its rumoured location, and perhaps a cryptic hint. With each item of the White Mantle collection you will find, you unlock a little more history about the item itself or the organisation. After finding them all, you unlock something. Perhaps the Confessor title, a White Mantle Knight mini, or a White Mantle costume.

On to the next page! Hmm, is that a faded Shining Blade emblem carved in that tree? ..

Something like that was proposed long before.
People pointed to other games which use a similiar feature, however appearently it is not possible at the moment.

I do not know where it was posted, but i think it was Bobby who said that they would have to completly redesign the UI for that and that it would be too much effort if you could just type /wiki XXX.

A great oversight in my opinion and i hope the CDIs are able to push the boundries of the game, change some deep rooted foundations (while keeping true to the game they designed. A delicate balancing act i know)

This may be considered a QOL change, but progression at the same time because something will become more prominent:

Equipable Mini Slot

My suggestion would be to add a slot to the Hero UI to equip a Mini Pet (like how their are slots to equip trinkets, weapons, armor, etc.) While the mini is equipped, it stays active.

That way I don’t have to worry about activating the mini every time I zone and I don’t have to worry about keeping it in an invisible bag (for “Deposit All” functionality)

This would make Mini’s more prominent and Mini’s that are harder to get (whether it be RNG or Meta) become a little more desirable.

Horizontal progression is a fairly simple accomplishment in the minds of an RPG community

Give the players the control to customize! In any form! More things to make players unique, and allow their guilds to stand out and promote their guilds emblems! We want to be proud of our guilds and our accomplishments!

I’m talking more flags, banners, emotes, armor and weapon skins, all the good fluffs!

Player controlled instances, ei, player housing, player shops, guild shops, guild castles, guild merchants.

An easy one, musical instruments (see Lord of the Rings online). I would spend hours in a tavern playing music with friends and guild mates.

The thing I like about player and guild house, player and guild shops is it gives and endless amount of reason for players to use their crafting skills. Like it never plateaus. People can constantly be crafting new materials, objects, decorations, furniture, etc.

Utilize your space guys. For real. I go back to all the main cities, all the areas that were created and they are all empty in areas except for the bank and TP areas.

Host more events and utilize all that space. It is a huuuuuuge game with such a beautiful world and it isn’t being taken advantage of!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Character-Progression-Horizontal/page/61#post3491838
I haven’t said anything about making everything directly accountbound.
I see this as a little QoL improvement, which isn’t essentially needed for players, but ut doesn’t also hurt, if ANet just offers the option for making max leveled crafting jobs accountbound anf gaining though this new options for the Gemstore to make the Gemstore more interestign wioth some helpful and nice to have, but not essentially needed features they can sell for Gems with that we can upgrade our accounts.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Character-Progression-Horizontal/page/61#post3491877
Accountwide Crafting Jobs destroy nothing, if to get them into accountwide state has the prerequisite of needing to brign the Crafting Jobs at least once with one of your characters first to Max, before you become able to make the maxed Crafting Job accountbound.
So what I suggested with the tomes is not making crafting jobs instant maxed and accountbound for the cost of some gems to bypass that you need to level the craftign job up first with a character/alt.
The only advantage a player gets is, that you don’t have to swap characters permanently anymore, if you want to craft something specific in the moment.
You’d be able just to swap directly your Crafting Jobs on the fly, just like swiching Stats with a legendary weapon on the fly when beign outside of combat.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Character-Progression-Horizontal/page/61#post3492076
Thats somethign that will happen on the way anyways.. no need to delve deeper into this, whats clear to happen so or so..just a matter of time, when we will see Jeweler and Cook gettign raised to Level 500 too.
What I’m talking about is adding complete new crafting jobs, Jobs, that can add alot of new interesting crafting recipes for completely new and different things related for many other gameplay features, like Housing for example. once we get it, its clear, that there should exist also fitting Crafting Jobs for it, like the Artisan to create stuff for our own hourses, things like Tables, Carpets, Paintings, Sculptures, Couches, Chairs and so on … with that we can decorate our homes to our likings, the basic stuff that players could earn through this Crafting Job aside from earning special rare stuff for Housing aside from Crafting and the Gemstore, where we would much likely also see a new Category to find its way into, once we get that Feature.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Character-Progression-Horizontal/page/61#post3492102
Jewelers aren’t obsolete, the crafting job is missign so far only its purpose, because it hasn’t yet like Cooking the 500 Rank.
Anet has to improve just simply the importance of this Crafting Job, by adding Ascended Runes and Ascended Sigils as also Ascended Gemstones to bring the Upgrades also to ascended/legendary level as part of vertical progression based on Asceded Itrems, which should be a system, that should be done from A to Z and this includes also Upgrades. Also not all of the T7 materials are craftable yet. Xunlai Electrum for example is much likely to be craftable once Jeweling gets its Ranks increased to 500 and they will surely be part for crafting recipes around craftable Accessoires, Back Items, Aqua Breathers of exotic/ascended and legendary type in the future
But your right, there should be also Crafting Jobs just for FUN. Not all Craftign Jobs have to be only for pure profit or character progression.
Why I say that this Game needs more crafting profressions is, just to increase the amount if diversification and options to choose from.
I have currently 8 Characters, 1 of eavery profession and I’d like it, if all of my characters ewould have 2 unique different Craftign Jobs…
Currently not possible with just only 8 avaiable Crafting Jobs, what leads, that you’ll start with your 5th Character to have double crafting jobs of the same type, what makes imo no sense in regard of efficiency to have multiple characters with the same crafting jobs at any given time, unless you like to waste money and ressources on bringing the craftign job ranks up or if you just like to level your Alts through crafting only.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

The Lost Witch.7601:

I would like to add one thing to this proposal that has been well-received earlier on in the thread.

(This could be just a QOL feature, but in my opinion an important one)

• More customisation options regarding our armor and weapons. (Things that came up in this regard were: pattern dyes, texture options (other types of wood and different metal polishes), customizeable features like long sleeves vs short sleeves, emblem design, that sort of stuff.

This falls under hero-recognition, but is a bit different than just adding new skins.

---

Regarding the AI first or class balance first discussion:

Let’s say we change the AI and the encounters to require more healing. Currently not all classes are equally able to heal. So this might lead to ‘forced’ group compositions, something GW2 seems to be very keen on avoiding.

They would have to change class balance with the upcoming AI-change in mind. But releasing the new AI before setting the balance right… could lead to a few months of frustration as the devs are trying to get the balance right.

On the other hand, without new AI to test on… how can you set the balance right?

The best would be a simultaneous effort, but with such a big game… it may be impossible to set aside enough resources to work on these simultaneously without rushing other content.

I guess they will need to do some guesswork with class balance keeping AI changes in mind, and be prepared to update it shortly after AI improvements come through.

Thanks Lost. I will add this to the proposal

Chris

Just to make things easier for ya, here is my original post on this issue.

Yalora Istairiea.6287:

Horizontal Changes related to Armor: The following would be upgrading componants that could be applied to armor like dye, so let’s start with that one.

• Dye Duplication: If you are going to keep dye soulbound. Allow Alts to copy a dye from one character to another. So let’s say I find a Celestial Dye and put it on my Main, now I get a dye duplicator and copy the Celestial Dye and put it on an Alt, another duplicator, another Alt etc. These duplicators could drop in the same manner as dyes or maybe you earn them by completing certain quests or there is always the Cooking Craft.
• Blended Material Component: If armor is made of different material it will have a different look. For example a Gossamer/Cotton blend Light armor might have deeper saturation levels but if it was a Gossamer/Silk blend it might be shinier. The same could be done with Tanning agent for Medium Armor or Alloys for Heavy.
• Paterns: Stripes(horizontal, vertical, diagonal), dots(small, medium, Large), checks, tie-dye, camouflage, heck even paisley would be an option. Each pattern would Not be armor weight dependent so the same pattern drop could be applied to light/medium/heavy.
• Grandmaster Upgrades: Upgrading armor looks would also be possible by using an elite crafting option available to Grandmaster Crafters.
  Light: Beading, Patching, Embroidering
  Medium: Stamping, Alternate Material Layering, Studding
  Heavy: Gilding, Emblazoning, Etching

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Devata.6589:

Mimizu.7340:

I see so many animals in the game that I would like to charm into a ranger pet yet the game only allows me a small portion of them.

Ranger pets need expanding to include all the working animals in the game.

I would like a Stag pet, for example.

(and i miss the zoo island from gw)

That is one of the elements I touched on with the RP part of horizontel progression here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Character-Progression-Horizontal/page/63#post3494474

It´s not yet on the proposal list. Hope Chris will adds that soon. Think the RP (or casual or whatever you name it) horizontal progression is pretty much non-existing in GW2 and it could make huge steps there.

Can you put a short proposal together for the CDI group to discuss please?

Chris

love you chris, but noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!

I understand you asked for a discussion proposal, but it is currently unnecessary because this topic has been discussed for over a year now. pets are mostly useless and hinder ranger performance, balance against other classes and overall growth. many will be highly upset if any development dollars goes toward adding more pets when you cannot improve the ones we currently have, and continue to force this poorly made profession mechanic. most players would be all for this if you genuinely fix the ranger and the pet became completely optional, but until then, no thank you sir.

love,
swagger

Hi Chris,

Just wanted to point you in the direction of this thread.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/List-Of-Things-We-Want-In-Gemstore

There’s some really nice ideas here which apply to horizontal progression. Things like animations when idle or different stances with weapons. It’s a good read and I know you’ve taken a lot on of things anyway.

Can’t wait for 2014 to really kick off!

KarlusDavius.1024:

Hi Chris,

Just wanted to point you in the direction of this thread.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/List-Of-Things-We-Want-In-Gemstore

There’s some really nice ideas here which apply to horizontal progression. Things like animations when idle or different stances with weapons. It’s a good read and I know you’ve taken a lot on of things anyway.

Can’t wait for 2014 to really kick off!

Horizontal progression is an element that is lacking in the game (partly because of the gem-store). Then you don’t want put those elements in the gem-store and so effective removing them from the game / game-play itself imo.

Rather they take much of those elements out of the gem-store, like mini’s, They belong in the game not in the gem-store imho. You want to put something in the gem-store that does not effect the game. The character-slots are oke, however when they add a new race they should give everybody a new extra slot. And a name-changer you can even throw in beta / test access but not anything that should belong inside the game… Like horizontal progression things.

@KarlusDavius.1024, I love that thread!

I hope the legendary dyes/dyeable weapons/skin locker suggestions all make it into the final draft. Those ideas are EPIC.

Edit: Nvm the dyes were mentioned at least

- QOL: More customization options regarding our armor and weapons. (Things that came up in this regard were: pattern dyes, texture options (other types of wood and different metal polishes), customizeable features like long sleeves vs short sleeves, emblem design.

Swagger.1459:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Devata.6589:

Mimizu.7340:

I see so many animals in the game that I would like to charm into a ranger pet yet the game only allows me a small portion of them.

Ranger pets need expanding to include all the working animals in the game.

I would like a Stag pet, for example.

(and i miss the zoo island from gw)

That is one of the elements I touched on with the RP part of horizontel progression here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Character-Progression-Horizontal/page/63#post3494474

It´s not yet on the proposal list. Hope Chris will adds that soon. Think the RP (or casual or whatever you name it) horizontal progression is pretty much non-existing in GW2 and it could make huge steps there.

Can you put a short proposal together for the CDI group to discuss please?

Chris

love you chris, but noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!

I understand you asked for a discussion proposal, but it is currently unnecessary because this topic has been discussed for over a year now. pets are mostly useless and hinder ranger performance, balance against other classes and overall growth. many will be highly upset if any development dollars goes toward adding more pets when you cannot improve the ones we currently have, and continue to force this poorly made profession mechanic. most players would be all for this if you genuinely fix the ranger and the pet became completely optional, but until then, no thank you sir.

love,
swagger

The point here is horizontal progression. You see, there are many people who like to collect minis, do fun crafts and find rare pets. It’s not so much about the combat mechanic but about you going and finding that rare one of making a full collection.

I know people do complain about ho useless pets but mini’s are also useless or fun crafts that have been talked about are also useless in a sence that they don’t add anything to the fight. It however does add something for horizontal progression. And thats what this CDI is about.

Devata.6589:

Rather they take much of those elements out of the gem-store, like mini’s They belong in the game not in the gem-store. You want to put something in the gem-store that does not effect the game.

Wait, wait… minipets affect the game?

I must be using mine wrong then.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Devata.6589:

Mimizu.7340:

I see so many animals in the game that I would like to charm into a ranger pet yet the game only allows me a small portion of them.

Ranger pets need expanding to include all the working animals in the game.

I would like a Stag pet, for example.

(and i miss the zoo island from gw)

That is one of the elements I touched on with the RP part of horizontel progression here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Character-Progression-Horizontal/page/63#post3494474

It´s not yet on the proposal list. Hope Chris will adds that soon. Think the RP (or casual or whatever you name it) horizontal progression is pretty much non-existing in GW2 and it could make huge steps there.

Can you put a short proposal together for the CDI group to discuss please?

Chris

I will try but I am not so good in making a long story short (as you might have already notices). Edit it if you like.

So this is the full RP part I was talking about.

"
Add the more RP elements. As being discussed also on this moment.

Make collecting mini’s more of a play element (so put them really in the game behind bosses, dungeons, drops from group of people) add in other items in a similar way (fun items yellow shiny stone, recipe’s even dyes and if we ever get them mounts).

Make collecting ranger pets more a play element by making it more dynamic, putting also rare pets in the game.

Fun crafts.. see the many suggestions on the last few pages. Where you also really have to go into the world to get your stuff (not from a gold or other currency grind). Fun crafts should also be fun from level 1 to max if they even work with levels.

Lastly, make exploring the world a journey / a quest where you also meed and learn NPC’s. Not a list of locations to cross of your list.

I think that are some important RP-elements for horizontal progression that also many casual players will love.
"

Proposal:
-Be more aware for the RP or casual elements of horizontal progression. Put mini’s, dyes, crafting recipe’s and other ‘fun’ items behind game-play like mobs, dungeons, bosses and so on. Also work on more interaction with NPC’s.

Make pet taming more dynamic and interesting so people can go into the world and find rare pets to collect and tame.

Add in crafts not for convenience but for fun. Crafting fun items every level, raising pets, raising mini´s, making furniture, musician (and so on) while having the ingredients one again available in game and in a similar way as the items I talked about before.

I can’t make it any shorter or to better fit ‘proposal quality’.

VOLKON.1290:

Devata.6589:

Rather they take much of those elements out of the gem-store, like mini’s They belong in the game not in the gem-store. You want to put something in the gem-store that does not effect the game.

Wait, wait… minipets affect the game?

I must be using mine wrong then.

They are part of horizontal progression.
Collecting them is for many a game-element of an RPG.

It’s not all about combat, it’s also about fun.

So then that also means the way you collect them must be fun and interesting.

It’s the same as what I just said to Swagger.1459 about pets. Yes pets can bee seen as a combat element but at the same there there is also just a fun element in collecting them.

For the combat it is not interesting if it’s green or purple but from a RP / casual viewpoint collecting the ‘rare purple one’ is a real element of the game, end-game. Or it could be.

Someone asked on the last pages, what those suggested new Craftign Jobs should be all responsible for, what people should be cable to craft with them.

Heres my detailed list of new crafting Jobs and and people should be able to do with them:
I’ll start with the Enchanter

1) Enchanter:
Enchanters would become the Crafting Job, which craft the following things:

• Runes (all Runes from other craftign jobs get removed to this Job)
• Sigils (all Sigils from other crafting jobs get removed to this Job)
• Infusions
• Enchanted Weapon Skins (Adding elemental particle effects)
• Enchanted Armor Skins (Adding elemental particle effects, Flamekissed Armor you know…)
• Shrine Stones (Personal temporary Waypoints where you can get revived after death)
• Transmutation Stones/ Crystals (Transmutation should get removed from Gemstore and get replaced with new Items, Players need a way to turn their Stones into Crystals, crafting would be a good way)

In brief, they should be the main crafting job for everything around Runes, Sigils, Infusions and other magical enchanted artifacts and consumeable items as also for visual elemental/magical cosmetics for weapons and armors with special “Mystic Enchants” for legendary equipment.

2) Writer:

Writers would create

• Lore Novelties (Historias)
• Compediums
• Books/Diaries
• Tomes
• Scrolls
• Letters/Postcards (used to customize more our Mailing System)

The Writer would be more of a Fun Craftign Job and I got inspired by the Game of Infinite Undiscovery (X360), where you have Writers as a Crafting Job, os I thought, hwat works there, can surely also work somehow in an interesting way for GW2 and then it hit me like a lightning – the Mailing System could get improved alot with them.

3) Tinkerer:
Tinkerers could craft alot of stuff, that could be of various things like:

• Toys (Put the Kites into here, remove them from the Gem Store and replace them with somethign new)
• Minipets (Living Puppets)
• Harvesting Tools (wehy should they be only Gemstory items, if we could also have some unique ones for Crafting?)
• Environmental Weapons
• Back Items
• Aqua Breathers
• Genesis Cards (A way to introduce some kind of collectable Monster Card Minigame for a Game i’d call “Genesis” as example)
  To get them, players would have to make PICTURES of with a createable Photo Camera that could get crafted by a Tinkerer (Inspiration by Dark Chronicles/Cloud 2 – PS2) I’d fricking love to see a Photo Cam Mode or so to optimize making pictures in this game with zoom function ect. pp.

In brief, they could just craft all the crazy stuff for more fun in this game and with them you could get also exotic/ascended/legendary aqua breathers and back items so theres also finally a craftign job responsible for those items, so that we get alos alot of new skins for aqua breathers especially.

4) Musician:

Also inspired by Infinite Undiscovery (X360), Musicians could craft thigns like:

• Scores (with that you could Auto Play with Music Instruments premade Songs)
• Music Instruments (just logic consequence, why add only new instruments through gem story, if we could alos craft our own instruments with unique skins, gemstore instruments are borign, they look all the same, they are al the same, flute is flut, but there are so many different types of flutes – pan flutes, ocarinas, cross flute, recorder, harmonica ect.)

Music instruments and the Music System in GW2 needs to get improved through this, I think what we have so far is still inferior through what we see in other MMORPG’s, like LotRO or Mabinogi. GW2 needs also some kind of ABC system, that makes it easier for players to play songs through basically programmign them outside of the game and using them with chat commands so that our character automatically starts to play the saved up scores.
Scores could be sold then so that peopel could buy songs of other players to be able to play them too if they like them.
A true crafting job, where you could make some money with your very own creativity

5) Artisan:

Artisans would be responsible for Housing, they could craft many different things:

• Tables
• Chairs
• Cupboards
• Lamps
• Sculptures
  ect.

I know there could be alot of other craftign jobs like Painters, Weavers ect but I think its not needed to go more into details here now

More Crafting Jobs would add more flavor to the game, more options to make individual unique characters, simply said, thes enrich the game and could help also to improve the game in general with new features.

Devata.6589:

Swagger.1459:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Devata.6589:

Mimizu.7340:

I see so many animals in the game that I would like to charm into a ranger pet yet the game only allows me a small portion of them.

Ranger pets need expanding to include all the working animals in the game.

I would like a Stag pet, for example.

(and i miss the zoo island from gw)

That is one of the elements I touched on with the RP part of horizontel progression here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Character-Progression-Horizontal/page/63#post3494474

It´s not yet on the proposal list. Hope Chris will adds that soon. Think the RP (or casual or whatever you name it) horizontal progression is pretty much non-existing in GW2 and it could make huge steps there.

Can you put a short proposal together for the CDI group to discuss please?

Chris

love you chris, but noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!

I understand you asked for a discussion proposal, but it is currently unnecessary because this topic has been discussed for over a year now. pets are mostly useless and hinder ranger performance, balance against other classes and overall growth. many will be highly upset if any development dollars goes toward adding more pets when you cannot improve the ones we currently have, and continue to force this poorly made profession mechanic. most players would be all for this if you genuinely fix the ranger and the pet became completely optional, but until then, no thank you sir.

love,
swagger

The point here is horizontal progression. You see, there are many people who like to collect minis, do fun crafts and find rare pets. It’s not so much about the combat mechanic but about you going and finding that rare one of making a full collection.

I know people do complain about ho useless pets but mini’s are also useless or fun crafts that have been talked about are also useless in a sence that they don’t add anything to the fight. It however does add something for horizontal progression. And thats what this CDI is about.

The part that didn’t get quoted was the one asking for more ranger pets. Rangers don’t need more pets until fundamental flaws to performance are addressed. There does not need to be additional discussion on adding pets, there needs to be a proposal on fixing the ranger and implementing these fixes to our class mechanics first.

I would like to see the hearts get revamped, to both be repeatable and connected to other players who have done them. Right now, when they are done… well, they are DONE and unlike the more social events, are completed in a vacuum in regards to the community at large.

How is this fixed?

1: As it stands, they sell a bunch of stuff no one wants unless they would like to transmute it for the skin… When I level, I don’t even shop them. Change their offerings to match that of a laurel vendor, yet purchased with karma and making the items specific to that region (Mats, weapons, trinkets, runes, mini’s, consumables, etc) and not limited by level. Or for a radical change, a new currency like ‘heart points’ are awarded.
2: Hearts offer different paths (like dungeons) with different challenges (Fastest finish time, most kills, best X done, or Most Y accomplished) and track the players that have done them through leaderboards that can be viewed by talking to the heart. Perhaps the “Top 25 Tyrians that have assisted”? They are still completed when the player first encounters it and finishes all of the objectives, however now, they have new paths to choose from to continue helping that heart.
3: The number 1 player of the heart becomes the area champion which earn specific boons to that area (until they leave heart area). This title is apparent to any other player that enters the area. This champion placement can change when another player beats that players score or by some other method…
4: Reduce the number of hearts available, by eliminating the ones of lesser quality or by reducing multiple hearts to a single point of chain hearts. So by completing one heart, another becomes available to complete.

@ Chris Whiteside’s Proposal

Nice to see, that we start to make some straight talking finally , so that we know now a bit more, where we are standing, and which of our ideas will be looked into by the Devs soon a bit closer for the next phase of more concrete discussion around those ideas, which you will make also internally.

I expected somehow, that Sub Classes will be delayed into an own new CDI, but I self was it, who also said, that I think its better to postpone them and settign focus firts onto other things here, like Housing, to buy you litereally more time to fix first other portions of the game to prepare basically GW2 for Sub Classes to be implemented and I think, the latest Statements around fixing Berserker being superior over everything and making Support and Control more equal to pure Damage as also making more tweaks in regard of Class balance first, are absolutely needed first to set up a good and clean foundation to build up onto this new Sub Classes and the systems to introduce them into the game in a way, that everythign gets also explained by lore and game mechanics, why they are out of a sudden all there ect. and how they effectively affect directly our character progression, vertically as like horizontally.

I’ll eagerly await the official seperate CDI for Sub Classes, once the time has come for it.

Swagger.1459:

Devata.6589:

Swagger.1459:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Devata.6589:

Mimizu.7340:

I see so many animals in the game that I would like to charm into a ranger pet yet the game only allows me a small portion of them.

Ranger pets need expanding to include all the working animals in the game.

I would like a Stag pet, for example.

(and i miss the zoo island from gw)

That is one of the elements I touched on with the RP part of horizontel progression here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Character-Progression-Horizontal/page/63#post3494474

It´s not yet on the proposal list. Hope Chris will adds that soon. Think the RP (or casual or whatever you name it) horizontal progression is pretty much non-existing in GW2 and it could make huge steps there.

Can you put a short proposal together for the CDI group to discuss please?

Chris

love you chris, but noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!

I understand you asked for a discussion proposal, but it is currently unnecessary because this topic has been discussed for over a year now. pets are mostly useless and hinder ranger performance, balance against other classes and overall growth. many will be highly upset if any development dollars goes toward adding more pets when you cannot improve the ones we currently have, and continue to force this poorly made profession mechanic. most players would be all for this if you genuinely fix the ranger and the pet became completely optional, but until then, no thank you sir.

love,
swagger

The point here is horizontal progression. You see, there are many people who like to collect minis, do fun crafts and find rare pets. It’s not so much about the combat mechanic but about you going and finding that rare one of making a full collection.

I know people do complain about ho useless pets but mini’s are also useless or fun crafts that have been talked about are also useless in a sence that they don’t add anything to the fight. It however does add something for horizontal progression. And thats what this CDI is about.

The part that didn’t get quoted was the one asking for more ranger pets. Rangers don’t need more pets until fundamental flaws to performance are addressed. There does not need to be additional discussion on adding pets, there needs to be a proposal on fixing the ranger and implementing these fixes to our class mechanics first.

I have to disagree because it’s a completely separate thing. It’s the same as saying stop doing anything else because ranger pets don’t work like they should.

While we are both talking about ranger pets it’s from a totally different game-element perspective.

Having fun collecting pets, finding rare pets, doing special events or quest to being able to get a special pet and so on.

That has nothing to do with the fact if pet function (combat wise) like they should. I don;t talk about putting in a pet with different abilities. I can understand how that might be in the way of fixing the combat mechanism of pets. But a skin or the way you catch or get a pet is a totally unrelated aspect of the pet compared to the aspect (combat) you are looking at.

Rigultru.3597:

Horizontal progression is a fairly simple accomplishment in the minds of an RPG community

Perhaps RPG elements could/should be their own CDI? Things like the ability to sit down in a chair aren’t really tied to character progress, but I’m sure additions in that vein would be welcome by quite a few players. I just don’t see it as character progress, though.

darkace.8925:

Rigultru.3597:

Horizontal progression is a fairly simple accomplishment in the minds of an RPG community

Perhaps RPG elements could/should be their own CDI? Things like the ability to sit down in a chair aren’t really tied to character progress, but I’m sure additions in that vein would be welcome by quite a few players. I just don’t see it as character progress, though.

Yeah I think there is a difference between RP horizontal progression elements. (What I have been talking about)

And elements what RP gamers want. I, for example, are not an RP gamer so I care less about ‘broken lore’ and that sort of stuff.

I do appreciate details like sitting on a chair but it’s not something I use as a game-elemt. For the RP community things like the lore and being able to sit on a chair and so on are extremely important and part of there game-play. But that is not horizontal progression.

darkace.8925:

Rigultru.3597:

Horizontal progression is a fairly simple accomplishment in the minds of an RPG community

Perhaps RPG elements could/should be their own CDI? Things like the ability to sit down in a chair aren’t really tied to character progress, but I’m sure additions in that vein would be welcome by quite a few players. I just don’t see it as character progress, though.

I think this is a really good idea. I think some aspects might be part of HP, but there are a lot of things people want that Chris said are QOL and even more things that seem to be less about progression than about immersion.

Hi Devata! Since you said in your earlier post that you weren’t that good at compiling the info, I tried to help and sum up your points in a way I think would be proposal-ish enough to be included. RP elements are very much in my interest as well!

Feel free to edit all you like, or slap me if you think it’s horrible. Hopefully this helps!^^

Expanding both RP-oriented and non-combat elements of character progression. An example of how this can be achieved is by making fun or collectable items (miniatures, crafting recipes, dyes), unlockable through various aspects of gameplay.

Expanding NPC interactions and optional conversations throughout the world – possibly using this as a vehicle to make additional lore and history of Tyria more accessible and known to players ingame. This includes expanding on the already included personality system.

Addition of fun non-combat crafting professions (or alternatively, add such recipes to existing ones). Make ingredients for those professions obtainable throughout the world, with a focus on the journey and exploration to get them. Obtaining the most precious recipes should be rare enough to be special, but not impossible enough to be discouraging.

Examples of fun items to make would be instruments, toys, town clothes, mini’s, furniture/decoration for housing if implemented (like paintings with miniature GW art!).

I used to play Lineage 2 and I don’t understand why each armor has such a short lifespan, but every time I change the armor, it felt rewarding because of the way I look different but nice.

Whenever I hit major levels in the game whilst leveling (say, in the increments of 10), I thought maybe the new traits I can do I might consider playing a different style and use different stats (maybe condition damage instead of power).

This, however, usually also coincides with the availability of mostly crafted armors. And the crafted armors look the same.

I think this is double the displeasure from when I was playing Lineage 2 as and when my character has his equipments replaced and renewed.

Using transmutation stones at the beginning is fine, but halfway through the leveling process, I do feel as though I’m forced to use them if I want my characters to look somewhat decent because there aren’t any better looking armors to look forward to at levels x in the future and if I feel that the decent look that I have is one that is from a very low level, no matter how much I loved it at first, it does get old and aren’t worth any transmutations spent anymore.

At the end of the day, perhaps the more pressing matter is the lack of variety of cosmetics in the end-game, but for those people whose first experiences of Guild Wars 2 are within the first 1-2 weeks of leveling, this could be a little bit off-putting…

Devata.6589:

Swagger.1459:

Devata.6589:

Swagger.1459:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Devata.6589:

Mimizu.7340:

I see so many animals in the game that I would like to charm into a ranger pet yet the game only allows me a small portion of them.

Ranger pets need expanding to include all the working animals in the game.

I would like a Stag pet, for example.

(and i miss the zoo island from gw)

That is one of the elements I touched on with the RP part of horizontel progression here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Character-Progression-Horizontal/page/63#post3494474

It´s not yet on the proposal list. Hope Chris will adds that soon. Think the RP (or casual or whatever you name it) horizontal progression is pretty much non-existing in GW2 and it could make huge steps there.

Can you put a short proposal together for the CDI group to discuss please?

Chris

love you chris, but noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!

I understand you asked for a discussion proposal, but it is currently unnecessary because this topic has been discussed for over a year now. pets are mostly useless and hinder ranger performance, balance against other classes and overall growth. many will be highly upset if any development dollars goes toward adding more pets when you cannot improve the ones we currently have, and continue to force this poorly made profession mechanic. most players would be all for this if you genuinely fix the ranger and the pet became completely optional, but until then, no thank you sir.

love,
swagger

The point here is horizontal progression. You see, there are many people who like to collect minis, do fun crafts and find rare pets. It’s not so much about the combat mechanic but about you going and finding that rare one of making a full collection.

I know people do complain about ho useless pets but mini’s are also useless or fun crafts that have been talked about are also useless in a sence that they don’t add anything to the fight. It however does add something for horizontal progression. And thats what this CDI is about.

The part that didn’t get quoted was the one asking for more ranger pets. Rangers don’t need more pets until fundamental flaws to performance are addressed. There does not need to be additional discussion on adding pets, there needs to be a proposal on fixing the ranger and implementing these fixes to our class mechanics first.

I have to disagree because it’s a completely separate thing. It’s the same as saying stop doing anything else because ranger pets don’t work like they should.

While we are both talking about ranger pets it’s from a totally different game-element perspective.

Having fun collecting pets, finding rare pets, doing special events or quest to being able to get a special pet and so on.

That has nothing to do with the fact if pet function (combat wise) like they should. I don;t talk about putting in a pet with different abilities. I can understand how that might be in the way of fixing the combat mechanism of pets. But a skin or the way you catch or get a pet is a totally unrelated aspect of the pet compared to the aspect (combat) you are looking at.

GW2 pets are specifically designed as a combat mechanic, so it is a valid point that adding new ones could just exacerbate the current problem since they all have their own skill sets.

You seem to be asking for something like the following (correct me if I am wrong):
1. Add pet “skins” that can change the look of my pet.
Ex. Change my black bear to a grizzly, change my pink moa to a hot pink moa.
2. Add these new items as random drops through chests, mob kills, specific encounters.
Ex. Tequatl now has a chance to drop a “Tequatl” skin that can be applied to any drake pet.
3. When adding new pets to the game, consider adding a scavenger hunt to find it or make it located in a new exclusive explorer location within a map, so you have to “hunt” for it.
Ex. Add a new pet Stag. This new rare pet can only be found in one new area, can you find it first? (add a new area to a place like Diessa Plateau, southeast near the area with the skulks and make a little forest of dense trees, where you find the rare Stags with deer and does around.)

If this is what you are asking for, then I like it.

Gaebriel.3754:

Hi Devata! Since you said in your earlier post that you weren’t that good at compiling the info, I tried to help and sum up your points in a way I think would be proposal-ish enough to be included. RP elements are very much in my interest as well!

Feel free to edit all you like, or slap me if you think it’s horrible. Hopefully this helps!^^

Expanding both RP-oriented and non-combat elements of character progression. An example of how this can be achieved is by making fun or collectable items (miniatures, crafting recipes, dyes), unlockable through various aspects of gameplay.

Expanding NPC interactions and optional conversations throughout the world – possibly using this as a vehicle to make additional lore and history of Tyria more accessible and known to players ingame. This includes expanding on the already included personality system.

Addition of fun non-combat crafting professions (or alternatively, add such recipes to existing ones). Make ingredients for those professions obtainable throughout the world, with a focus on the journey and exploration to get them. Obtaining the most precious recipes should be rare enough to be special, but not impossible enough to be discouraging.

Examples of fun items to make would be instruments, toys, town clothes, mini’s, furniture/decoration for housing if implemented (like paintings with miniature GW art!).

You did not mention the ranger pet element (fun way in taming / catching rare pets and so on).

And NPC interaction the way you describe it is not so much horizontal progression. The way I mend it was more to acquiring things and world exploration (like you have in traditional quest). Of course the two could be combined. When having that interaction you can get information about the lore but that part is not so much horizontal progression.

There have also been many examples of fun crafts. From raising pets to Musician.

The rest is described pretty well I think

@ Chris , wouldn’t that have the potential issue of bias? Intentionally representing certain ideas in a negative light. I would rather some people misunderstand the difference between a proposal and promise.
Bezagron.7352 would be my nomination he seems mostly impartial. If he is up for it.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

By the way moving forward (and we can discuss this in the CDI Process Evolution topic) I would like you guys to nominate someone to build the Proposal on behalf of us all.

Due to the Red Swash on the left it seems some are getting confused with Promise vs. Proposal and I just think it would be healthy to do it this way anyway.

Chris

I Nominate Bezagron if he’s up for it. He’s managed to stay mostly neutral this whole thread when he was writing those summaries. Not only that, but he somehow managed to read every single post in this thread and come up with a 1 sentence summary on almost every single suggestion/proposal in this thread. That’s just crazy and awesome at the same time!

Also, I took screenshots incase a player tries to say that “Kitten Anet broke their promises to add (housing)!!!!”

I nominate Nike, he’s/she’s awesome
(I agree with almost all of his posts, some really great thoughts among those)

Nike.2631:

I’ve always had this vision of an Asura on a Moa… and the player having little to no control over which way the Moa runs…

And the cheers and cries over chocobo racing become louder . . .

brittitude.1983:

Devata.6589:

Swagger.1459:

Devata.6589:

Swagger.1459:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Devata.6589:

Mimizu.7340:

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The part that didn’t get quoted was the one asking for more ranger pets. Rangers don’t need more pets until fundamental flaws to performance are addressed. There does not need to be additional discussion on adding pets, there needs to be a proposal on fixing the ranger and implementing these fixes to our class mechanics first.

I have to disagree because it’s a completely separate thing. It’s the same as saying stop doing anything else because ranger pets don’t work like they should.

While we are both talking about ranger pets it’s from a totally different game-element perspective.

Having fun collecting pets, finding rare pets, doing special events or quest to being able to get a special pet and so on.

That has nothing to do with the fact if pet function (combat wise) like they should. I don;t talk about putting in a pet with different abilities. I can understand how that might be in the way of fixing the combat mechanism of pets. But a skin or the way you catch or get a pet is a totally unrelated aspect of the pet compared to the aspect (combat) you are looking at.

GW2 pets are specifically designed as a combat mechanic, so it is a valid point that adding new ones could just exacerbate the current problem since they all have their own skill sets.

You seem to be asking for something like the following (correct me if I am wrong):
1. Add pet “skins” that can change the look of my pet.
Ex. Change my black bear to a grizzly, change my pink moa to a hot pink moa.
2. Add these new items as random drops through chests, mob kills, specific encounters.
Ex. Tequatl now has a chance to drop a “Tequatl” skin that can be applied to any drake pet.
3. When adding new pets to the game, consider adding a scavenger hunt to find it or make it located in a new exclusive explorer location within a map, so you have to “hunt” for it.
Ex. Add a new pet Stag. This new rare pet can only be found in one new area, can you find it first? (add a new area to a place like Diessa Plateau, southeast near the area with the skulks and make a little forest of dense trees, where you find the rare Stags with deer and does around.)

If this is what you are asking for, then I like it.

If every new pet would mean adding new skills then yes. But thats not needed.

And I think I am talking for many people that like the more RP or casual or just fun elements of game-play. It’s not all about combat. Well for some it is but for enough it isn’t.

1 No and yes. Don’t add in the skins, Add in pets with those new skins and looks.

2 Pets then are of-course not in chest but in the world. However they might only spawn in a dungeon from a boss if X. Or only spawn from a specific event or there is only one black pig in the game in one place.

3 Yes that as well

You forget one element. Making catching pets more dynamic. What that means is that for example don’t only allow juveniles to be tamed but all ‘animals’. Then whenever putting a new animal into the game you link it to a group (The group is then about the skills and strength).
You then remove the LIST of predefined pets as they now exist. You are then simply able to catch every animal but taming it takes 15 seconds (might require some specific mechanism). What then happens is that it is even possible that people might catch a pet the the developer never mend to be in the game as a pet.
For example, one boss spawns a animal for 10 seconds. No way you can get it.. Well there was an elementalist that speed up all spells meaning you now where able to catch it in 9 seconds.
It would not break the game because the animal linked to that group so still has the same strength and skills as lets say pigs (because it belonged to the pigs group). Size might be a problem but you can simply shrink all animals after capture to a specified size so that would then also happen with the pet developers did not foresee you catching.

You can see how you now get a whole new element in the game (Horizontal progession type of game element) where people go and search for rare pets. You might also see somebody with a cool pet and ask him where he did catch that. That will not happen now because you can already see all pets in your pet overview so no surprises there.

This is what I referred to in when I said in the proposal it should be more dynamic.