Guild Wars 2

Devata.6589:

For the trolling part, as long as your inside your guild-hall, even if you are in an open world, nobody could be trolling you. An option to block out map-chat inside your guild-plot was already suggested as a technical solution for that.

“The suggestion to randomly toss halls around from plot to plot is more of a “where’s my hall at today” issue. I’m not really focused on the tech hurdles. There are several problems, those were just a couple.”

Also this would not happen. With plots on ground maps it would only happed if a map becomes a ghost time or if a guild go’s inactive (and then you have to place it in the new map, it would not happen automatically).

For sky-maps they just spawn where they where before or at least close to that. (I would think in the case of sky-maps, airships would have hit detection to not fly into each other, so then they might need to spawn a little to the side if another ship is in the way) also then you would not have to look around because you would use something like a guild-hall stone to portal you there.

“I’m not really focused on the tech hurdles. "
I know your not however the things you talk about are not a reason why open world guild halls would be bad but technical difficulties to overcome when using open world guild-halls. Difficulties that would not be in the instance but not things that are unsolvable.

Yes I know what sandbox means. While it would not have to be in the current maps so would not have to influence the current maps.

While you’re solving technical issues open world halls would introduce, beyond “showing off” I see no big benefit to having maps full of guild halls. Maybe in that it keeps a section of the open world populated. Then you have the issue of how many players can be on a map at once, which is a pretty big issue and also ties into megaserver problems. I’m not sure introducing such technical hurdles with solutions makes me feel any better about the concept.

Serophous.9085:

As for guild alliance halls. They could work, and would be neat. The only issue would be, what happens if the alliance breaks apart? who gets the hall? Does it go away if the alliance fails and a new one has to be started all over? If anything, that could be a completely new and different CDI if (or after ) guild halls are implemented.

That sounds as complicated as a divorce :P

Edgar Doiron.2804:

Serophous.9085:

As for guild alliance halls. They could work, and would be neat. The only issue would be, what happens if the alliance breaks apart? who gets the hall? Does it go away if the alliance fails and a new one has to be started all over? If anything, that could be a completely new and different CDI if (or after ) guild halls are implemented.

That sounds as complicated as a divorce :P

and chances are, it would be!

Serophous.9085:

Guys, while the whole design aspect is sounding fun for a guild hall, I think we are forgetting one thing:

In GW1, the guild halls were relatively the same design for GvG. So while developing and building a guild to look how you want, how would this effect the GvG aspect, where there could be some annoyance in trying to find a guild lord to kill?

Yeah, GvG would then likely move to being a separate element. Maybe guilds could fight each other (like if the guild-halls are air-ships) but the way that worked in GW1 would indeed have to be different.

Maybe you can unlock the GvG playground to place in your guild-hall however. But that would likely create some size problems.

Serophous.9085:

Edgar Doiron.2804:

Serophous.9085:

As for guild alliance halls. They could work, and would be neat. The only issue would be, what happens if the alliance breaks apart? who gets the hall? Does it go away if the alliance fails and a new one has to be started all over? If anything, that could be a completely new and different CDI if (or after ) guild halls are implemented.

That sounds as complicated as a divorce :P

and chances are, it would be!

All the more reason to keep things separate imo. Fewer peeved people in the long run.

Serophous.9085:

As for minimum size, I would say 25 members must be in the guild to start. That seems like an easily achievable number, especially with people able to join up to 4 guilds at a time.

What would be the benefit of this arbitrary limit? How does it improve the content?

Being able to join up to 4 guilds at a time is irrelevant. Having to grab extra filler members just so you can build a guild hall would be silly. If someone leaves the guild and you are now at 24 members does the guild hall go poof? If not what was the point of the limit? If yes … expect a lot of complaints from all over the place.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Yeah we are happy to drive and thanks for letting us do so. What i mean is just because we all talk about something it doesn’t mean it is a ‘thing’.

Chris

Oh! Understood. I actually wasn’t going off that question. I think that it got brought into the conversation somewhat confused me with the direction Jon was going.

My thought still stands, +1 on alliances visiting/guesting to other guilds hall.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

‘As for guild alliance halls. They could work, and would be neat. The only issue would be, what happens if the alliance breaks apart? who gets the hall?’

Initial thoughts are that members of the Alliance would each get an instance of the shared guild hall. And yes I am aware I said instance. This is purely because I am a fan of instance over open world (-:

Chris

Personally I think I’d prefer instanced Guild Halls over open world ones anyway, since I wouldn’t necessarily want people wandering into my hall uninvited. Would be like someone simply wandering into my home without knocking. But, that’s just my take on it.

Now, with each guild getting their own instanced of the previously built “shared” hall, if the guild entered into a new/different alliance would they then lose that, since this different alliance would potentially have their own shared hall? Could they potentially lose all the effort they put into the previously shared hall, or would that effort then translate into the new alliance? (which opens up a whole different selection of issues and potential exploits)

munkiman.3068:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Yeah we are happy to drive and thanks for letting us do so. What i mean is just because we all talk about something it doesn’t mean it is a ‘thing’.

Chris

Oh! Understood. I actually wasn’t going off that question. I think that it got brought into the conversation somewhat confused me with the direction Jon was going.

My thought still stands, +1 on alliances visiting/guesting to other guilds hall.

I think it is important not to exclude the guesting functionality of guild halls. It would be nice to invite say someone who wants to be invited to the guild but has not yet to the guild halls.

munkiman.3068:

Devata.6589:

For the trolling part, as long as your inside your guild-hall, even if you are in an open world, nobody could be trolling you. An option to block out map-chat inside your guild-plot was already suggested as a technical solution for that.

“The suggestion to randomly toss halls around from plot to plot is more of a “where’s my hall at today” issue. I’m not really focused on the tech hurdles. There are several problems, those were just a couple.”

Also this would not happen. With plots on ground maps it would only happed if a map becomes a ghost time or if a guild go’s inactive (and then you have to place it in the new map, it would not happen automatically).

For sky-maps they just spawn where they where before or at least close to that. (I would think in the case of sky-maps, airships would have hit detection to not fly into each other, so then they might need to spawn a little to the side if another ship is in the way) also then you would not have to look around because you would use something like a guild-hall stone to portal you there.

“I’m not really focused on the tech hurdles. "
I know your not however the things you talk about are not a reason why open world guild halls would be bad but technical difficulties to overcome when using open world guild-halls. Difficulties that would not be in the instance but not things that are unsolvable.

Yes I know what sandbox means. While it would not have to be in the current maps so would not have to influence the current maps.

While you’re solving technical issues open world halls would introduce, beyond “showing off” I see no big benefit to having maps full of guild halls. Maybe in that it keeps a section of the open world populated. Then you have the issue of how many players can be on a map at once, which is a pretty big issue and also ties into megaserver problems. I’m not sure introducing such technical hurdles with solutions makes me feel any better about the concept.

Well the showing off already go’s further. It involves pride and so more meaning to your guild and more willingness to work towards goals for your guild-hall.

Also it would give guilds much more a true place in this game. Now they exist but mainly in he form of a GUI. Placing them in an instance would keep that the same, placing them in the open world maybe interact with the open world would give them much more a place in GW2.

Then there is the living world I mentioned before. You want to make this world feel alive then open world guild-halls would be exactly what you want.

“Then you have the issue of how many players can be on a map at once” That is indeed a question while it should be solvable but to know the answer to that we need to know the code. You know maybe it’s not a problem. It would be strange even. You would expect it to be a problem if many people are close to each other, not if they are in the same map. Maybe max number of players in a map is just to prevent the change of many players getting close to each other?

“also ties into megaserver problems” also for that solutions have been giving, including the sky-maps. But we moved back into the technical difficulties here.

I would say, list the things you don’t want like the trolling and so on. Don’t say I want instance because you think thats the way to solve trolling.

In GW2 I have always been a member of a small Guild with 2-5 active members, up to about 20 inactive since inception. In GW1 we operated the same way. The glaring difference was the ability to ally with other likeminded and focused guilds to achieve more.
Guild Halls and Alliances are not intertwined, neither should they be.
Allowing Guilds to ally to complete guild missions, and to employ legions necessary for World event spawns is needed to avoid the simple monopoly enjoyed by large guilds over these types of events. Anet needs to enable the small 2man, 5 man, or 8 man guild the ability to compete and complete the larger events. These small units need to be able to enter Guild Merit market that they are currently blocked out of for any number of reasons (apathy, skill debt, coordination deficits, etc etc). If Guild Halls in any interpretation is to include Merits as a requirement, this inability to participate in the Merit market by the small 2 man guild will need to be addressed. GW1 had it right, as a 3-5 man guild, I was able to deploy more than half the upgrades to our guild hall 1 year after inception. As a 2-4 active member guild, we sit on over 200k Influence and most upgrades unlocked, however, we cannot enter the Merit market, and are now stagnate.
Alliances are just that, an alliance. Bedfellows does not an alliance make. Any Guild Hall should be for one guild only. instanced meeting halls or better yet, visitation rights, ala GW1, are right on point.

As for Guild Halls, remove merits from the equations unless Alliance participation can result in Merit rewards for Guilds at the 2-5 man level. Guilds of this size would be highly focused knowing that they are able to achieve just as the large or Mega Guild can, at the same time they know they will have a slower time of it, and making the rewards achievable within time limits should be considered. Scaling the rewards according to Guild Size should be given much thought.

Just my two cents.

Communication is the key to everyone’s success. If you cannot communicate effectively at all levels, all is lost. Please help us both and hire a communications expert to assist in your daily communications with the community.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

‘As for guild alliance halls. They could work, and would be neat. The only issue would be, what happens if the alliance breaks apart? who gets the hall?’

Initial thoughts are that members of the Alliance would each get an instance of the shared guild hall. And yes I am aware I said instance. This is purely because I am a fan of instance over open world (-:

Chris

Personally I think I’d prefer instanced Guild Halls over open world ones anyway, since I wouldn’t necessarily want people wandering into my hall uninvited. Would be like someone simply wandering into my home without knocking. But, that’s just my take on it.

Now, with each guild getting their own instanced of the previously built “shared” hall, if the guild entered into a new/different alliance would they then lose that, since this different alliance would potentially have their own shared hall? Could they potentially lose all the effort they put into the previously shared hall, or would that effort then translate into the new alliance? (which opens up a whole different selection of issues and potential exploits)

“I wouldn’t necessarily want people wandering into my hall uninvited.”
And why would that be possible in open-world guild-halls?

Especially with doors like in WvW where the guild can set a door only allow guild-members or allow everybody in, or other rules. Whatever they want.

Or guild-hall airships. Maybe you allow gong on to other airships but maybe not. (if the gap between two airships is to big)

That has been given as a solution in this thread.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Serophous.9085:

Guys, while the whole design aspect is sounding fun for a guild hall, I think we are forgetting one thing:

In GW1, the guild halls were relatively the same design for GvG. So while developing and building a guild to look how you want, how would this effect the GvG aspect, where there could be some annoyance in trying to find a guild lord to kill?

Hi,

GvG will be discussed after we discuss raiding.

Thanks,

Chris

I just want to add in that “GvG” doesn’t even needs to be exclusive to guilds: it could simply be a new PvP mode with a “guild queue”.

As in other posts…I think the best way is to keep it simple.

No open world or WvW Guild halls…if you take a set of guild halls…lets say one from each racial region…place an Asura Gate that shows “Guild Hall”, maybe with some cool NPC convos around it, with some people working on it and someone at the control panels, etc that takes you into YOUR Guild Instanced Guild Hall, or to a Guild Hall you have an Active Invitiation to visit(You pick by speaking to the NPC at he control panel)…might solve the issue and keep us from having to deal with WvW map fill-ups, or changing the landscapes of areas. I mean, you could have a GH Gate in every City, or even ou tin Open World in some Outposts and such.

I’m on board with Instances for the GHs 100%, Chris!

Devata.6589:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

‘As for guild alliance halls. They could work, and would be neat. The only issue would be, what happens if the alliance breaks apart? who gets the hall?’

Initial thoughts are that members of the Alliance would each get an instance of the shared guild hall. And yes I am aware I said instance. This is purely because I am a fan of instance over open world (-:

Chris

Personally I think I’d prefer instanced Guild Halls over open world ones anyway, since I wouldn’t necessarily want people wandering into my hall uninvited. Would be like someone simply wandering into my home without knocking. But, that’s just my take on it.

Now, with each guild getting their own instanced of the previously built “shared” hall, if the guild entered into a new/different alliance would they then lose that, since this different alliance would potentially have their own shared hall? Could they potentially lose all the effort they put into the previously shared hall, or would that effort then translate into the new alliance? (which opens up a whole different selection of issues and potential exploits)

“I wouldn’t necessarily want people wandering into my hall uninvited.”
And why would that be possible in open-world guild-halls?

Especially with doors like in WvW where the guild can set a door only allow guild-members or allow everybody in, or other rules. Whatever they want.

Or guild-hall airships. Maybe you allow gong on to other airships but maybe not. (if the gap between two airships is to big)

That has been given as a solution in this thread.

The common theme with open world is the ability to go anywhere as you please. Thus the keyword “open.” It’s all one big instance without restrictions. To lock non guild members out makes it not ‘open world’ anymore, as the hall becomes its own instance. It’s own map. Similar to crossing from Queensdale to Kessex, for example. Open world guild halls (at least to me) would be much closer to how the lodges function in Hoelbrak.

I’m not sure on the airship proposal. I’m not keen on air ships to be honest. But, that’s just my perspective on it.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Open world guild halls (at least to me) would be much closer to how the lodges function in Hoelbrak.

EXACTLY!

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I’m not sure on the airship proposal. I’m not keen on air ships to be honest. But, that’s just my perspective on it.

A Guild Airship would be cool…but not as a Guild Hall…maybe make it an option…I know many would like to be “Sky Pirates”…I dunno…I’m on the fence on this one…as long as it would fly over stuff and you could look out and see things you’re flying over…maybe “Far-Seerers” mounted along the railings…but that’s a ton of work…a mobile Vista Viewing kinda deal. I’m leaning more toward Ground-Based Guild Halls myself.

Thorfinnr Sleggja.1209:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Open world guild halls (at least to me) would be much closer to how the lodges function in Hoelbrak.

EXACTLY!

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I’m not sure on the airship proposal. I’m not keen on air ships to be honest. But, that’s just my perspective on it.

A Guild Airship would be cool…but not as a Guild Hall…maybe make it an option…I know many would like to be “Sky Pirates”…I dunno…I’m on the fence on this one…as long as it would fly over stuff and you could look out and see things you’re flying over…maybe “Far-Seerers” mounted along the railings…but that’s a ton of work…a mobile Vista Viewing kinda deal. I’m leaning more toward Ground-Based Guild Halls myself.

Unless we can do airship battles, I don’t want any Guild Airships

Edgar Doiron.2804:

Unless we can do airship battles, I don’t want any Guild Airships

Agreed…but that opens up a whole new can o’worms…lol

A couple quick questions I think are worth answering:

1.) Is it OK for it to take more time for smaller guilds to get upgrades than for larger guilds only because of size? If so, why?

2.) Please list 3 well thought out reasons why needing large amounts of Influence in the guild hall system we be good for small guilds.

3.) What are the downsides of scaling building costs/building currency between small/large guilds?

Sligh.2789:

Anet needs to enable the small 2man, 5 man, or 8 man guild the ability to compete and complete the larger events. These small units need to be able to enter Guild Merit market that they are currently blocked out of for any number of reasons (apathy, skill debt, coordination deficits, etc etc). If Guild Halls in any interpretation is to include Merits as a requirement, this inability to participate in the Merit market by the small 2 man guild will need to be addressed.

I’ll say now what I said in the other thread, trying to accommodate everyone at once simply won’t work, and if the subject is upgrades for guilds, there will be costs to refusing to ally with anyone else. Once the method exists to simultaneously exist as part of a 2 person guild and part of a larger 100 person alliance, then I would rather see some content that takes advantage of that. Certainly that’s more in the spirit of the game, even the elite Destiny’s Edge was a 6-person group.

Devata, it’s clear you want open world as strongly as I want instanced. However, I can see you’re trying to find ways to fix the many problems that go with open world. To me, there’s so many hurdles to overcome with that and so many benefits to instancing that instancing simply outweighs open world. But if you can devise an open world system with all the benefits of instancing, I shall bow before you.

One thing concerns me with your proposed fixes so far: you’ve a couple of times mentioned losing the plot and having to find another one. This is a huge no-no to me. There is simply no way to make every open world plot exactly equal in desirability. There will be terrain preferences, views, convenient travel access, zone preferences, and so on. Guilds will take their location into part of their identity (especially role play guilds).

Do you have a solution that lets a plot be permanent once acquired, doesn’t make guild hall areas into cookie cutter subdivisions in isolated areas, and makes every site equally “cool” to guilds placing a hall?

Thorfinnr Sleggja.1209:

As in other posts…I think the best way is to keep it simple.

No open world or WvW Guild halls…if you take a set of guild halls…lets say one from each racial region…place an Asura Gate that shows “Guild Hall”, maybe with some cool NPC convos around it, with some people working on it and someone at the control panels, etc that takes you into YOUR Guild Instanced Guild Hall, or to a Guild Hall you have an Active Invitiation to visit(You pick by speaking to the NPC at he control panel)…might solve the issue and keep us from having to deal with WvW map fill-ups, or changing the landscapes of areas. I mean, you could have a GH Gate in every City, or even ou tin Open World in some Outposts and such.

I’m on board with Instances for the GHs 100%, Chris!

Seems extremely boring to me, not to mention that again solutions for the problems you mention here have been given pages back already.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Devata.6589:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

‘As for guild alliance halls. They could work, and would be neat. The only issue would be, what happens if the alliance breaks apart? who gets the hall?’

Initial thoughts are that members of the Alliance would each get an instance of the shared guild hall. And yes I am aware I said instance. This is purely because I am a fan of instance over open world (-:

Chris

Personally I think I’d prefer instanced Guild Halls over open world ones anyway, since I wouldn’t necessarily want people wandering into my hall uninvited. Would be like someone simply wandering into my home without knocking. But, that’s just my take on it.

Now, with each guild getting their own instanced of the previously built “shared” hall, if the guild entered into a new/different alliance would they then lose that, since this different alliance would potentially have their own shared hall? Could they potentially lose all the effort they put into the previously shared hall, or would that effort then translate into the new alliance? (which opens up a whole different selection of issues and potential exploits)

“I wouldn’t necessarily want people wandering into my hall uninvited.”
And why would that be possible in open-world guild-halls?

Especially with doors like in WvW where the guild can set a door only allow guild-members or allow everybody in, or other rules. Whatever they want.

Or guild-hall airships. Maybe you allow gong on to other airships but maybe not. (if the gap between two airships is to big)

That has been given as a solution in this thread.

The common theme with open world is the ability to go anywhere as you please. Thus the keyword “open.” It’s all one big instance without restrictions. To lock non guild members out makes it not ‘open world’ anymore, as the hall becomes its own instance. It’s own map. Similar to crossing from Queensdale to Kessex, for example. Open world guild halls (at least to me) would be much closer to how the lodges function in Hoelbrak.

I’m not sure on the airship proposal. I’m not keen on air ships to be honest. But, that’s just my perspective on it.

Open world means your guild hall is in the open world. That does not mean that there are no restrictions and it does also not mean everybody can get inside it. But everybody could walk or fly past in.

You know just like in real life your house is in the open world but you can’t build everywhere you like and the door prevents unwanted people from getting in.

Bring back the Battle Isles(or something similar) as to “Where” The Guild Hall is located.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:The_Battle_Isles_map.jpg

Thorfinnr Sleggja.1209:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Open world guild halls (at least to me) would be much closer to how the lodges function in Hoelbrak.

EXACTLY!

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I’m not sure on the airship proposal. I’m not keen on air ships to be honest. But, that’s just my perspective on it.

A Guild Airship would be cool…but not as a Guild Hall…maybe make it an option…I know many would like to be “Sky Pirates”…I dunno…I’m on the fence on this one…as long as it would fly over stuff and you could look out and see things you’re flying over…maybe “Far-Seerers” mounted along the railings…but that’s a ton of work…a mobile Vista Viewing kinda deal. I’m leaning more toward Ground-Based Guild Halls myself.

Did you read the thread and know what the air-ship suggestions where about?
Basically the idea whas you could build your own airships and for idea’s of what would be possible see the Wizard’s Tower http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wizard's_Tower and the Zephyr Sanctum http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zephyr_Sanctum

Guild Halls should be guild instanced, with the option of creating an inter-alliance meeting area. I think that it would be silly to have open world guild halls, because you then have to deal with a number of technical challenges that are bypassed with the instanced guild hall.

Coming from a large guild community (TTS has 12 guilds), while I would prefer for guild halls to be open world, the sheer size of our community makes this a challenge, especially if we’re going to be capping guild halls at the current map cap (roughly 150). We regularly run 4 maps for Tequatl, and 2 maps for wurm. Back of the napkin maths suggests we deal with at least 300 players every night. Would open world guild halls be able to sustain that many people? Because if not, I see no advantage to the open world guild hall vs the instanced.

The only reason open world guild halls would make sense if they are created in the context of alliances and are able to sustain and have many more players than the current instance limit. That way, for example, it would be possible for TTS to gather all raiders in our guild halls and load up maps from there. (I’m hoping, though I haven’t had confirmation, that guild instances of maps will be a thing soon. TTS gets a lot of flak about the way we flood/pick and choose maps, and a guild instance would be the best, though it means disconnecting us from the GW2 community at large).

Thorfinnr Sleggja.1209:

Edgar Doiron.2804:

Unless we can do airship battles, I don’t want any Guild Airships

Agreed…but that opens up a whole new can o’worms…lol

Air-ship battles, or events in the airmaps where you fight against dragons and so on. All stuff talked about in the thread.

JonPeters.5630:

Conski Deshan.2057:

I find the current upgrade system quite stagnant and boring, you get your influence passively, click a button then wait a week.
(no offense intended to the creator of the system)
Maybe have the initial guild hall unlock under architecture say level 2/3 but past that an active system is needed.

On Categories for upgrades ,I’d see it breaking down something like this: (I may have what you meant by this wrong?)
Structures:
-Towers -halls -corridors -entry halls -Misc rooms
Defenses: (could be just graphical)
-Trebs -Cannons -Hot oil -Misc
Interior:
-Seating -Tables/cabinets -Rugs/banners/flags -Wallpapers/wall -statues/monuments -Misc
Exterior (wouldn’t actually limit it to placement outside as I’d like water features in the command room)
-Fountains -Trees -plants -training grounds -Livestock -Misc
NPCS
-Functional -Decorative -Alts
Glory or Rare category (this section would have limited placement (i.e once per guild hall or 10 per guild hall) basically the more prestige and high end stuff.
Limited Section for limited items i.e reward from once off events or competitions like a new Christmas tree each year.

This is a great break down, but I was speaking more about categorizing guild upgrades. Let me give an example to help get things started:

• WvW
• PvP
• Guild Missions
• Dungeons

This would tie the upgrades more to game mode than to the current arbitrary categories.

Before making a breakdown, I would like to think a little about Conski Deshan’s point regarding how “passive” influence is. I mean, I pretty much forget that it even exists, most of the time.

So, I am thinking, assuming the simplest case scenario: no customisable halls (excluding a visual representation of the guild upgrades), what could be a good reason to add guild-driven dynamic events/ quests/ hunts all around the world, if there’s no furniture to hunt down? Well, to make influence more actively obtainable!

Anyways, back to the breakdown, I think your example is effective and simple to understand. But I propose the following:

• Architecture (the guild halls itself)
  Unlocks guild halls, determines their size/ scope, unlocks general merchants and functionalities (bank, etc) within the guild halls, in addition to the current effects;
• Guild Identity / Representation (marketing the guild or having a presence)
  Unlocks and/ or expands upon guild armors, emblems, advertising boards, flag buffs, etc;
• Competition
  WvW buffs, GvG privileges, access to and maintainment of a guild-bound custom arena (as an alternative to the current means), ability to set up tournaments, unlocking access to pvp training area (with dummies) in the guild hall, etc. Also includes unlocking the respective merchants.
• World Presence (player-driven or player-created events)
  Guild missions, guild-related hunts or dynamic events for privilege/ furniture/ whatever, ability to organized guild events in towns, ability to set up duels, etc. Maybe the flag buffs can be here. Maybe this category can be fused with Guild Identity;
• General PvE Experience/ Organization
  For dungeons, fractals, raids, open world events and buffs.

Devata.6589:

Did you read the thread and know what the air-ship suggestions where about?
Basically the idea whas you could build your own airships and for idea’s of what would be possible see the Wizard’s Tower http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wizard's_Tower and the Zephyr Sanctum http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zephyr_Sanctum

In short, yes, I have read the thread…and many ideas that have been listed are fine and actually quite cool…but in perspective…may take a long time in development to get them into the game. Which is why I suggest start small, get the GHs in, get some quick wins with the community, and keep a group(obviously not their only thing) working on new additions to go into GHs say every 2-3 months(some go in automatically, some may need a Guild to “work” toward adding them to their GH). Each small addition could build on the background supporting system development to work up to the big adds that many are suggesting here and get them into the game.

Donari.5237:

Devata, it’s clear you want open world as strongly as I want instanced. However, I can see you’re trying to find ways to fix the many problems that go with open world. To me, there’s so many hurdles to overcome with that and so many benefits to instancing that instancing simply outweighs open world. But if you can devise an open world system with all the benefits of instancing, I shall bow before you.

One thing concerns me with your proposed fixes so far: you’ve a couple of times mentioned losing the plot and having to find another one. This is a huge no-no to me. There is simply no way to make every open world plot exactly equal in desirability. There will be terrain preferences, views, convenient travel access, zone preferences, and so on. Guilds will take their location into part of their identity (especially role play guilds).

Do you have a solution that lets a plot be permanent once acquired, doesn’t make guild hall areas into cookie cutter subdivisions in isolated areas, and makes every site equally “cool” to guilds placing a hall?

Let me be honest with you.

I have been following the thread from the start so know what has been said. And now new people come in to join the conversation (what is all great) but then they obviously have not read the thread and basically start over at zero. Coming with the same problems that where talked about on page 1 and where multiple people (not just me!) came up with solutions.

I feel we should be moving forward. People suggesting instances is fine but not with reasons / problems that are being solved or has been talked about 10 pages back.

Now it almost seems as if I am the guy here who focusing on this one thing (like you say “you’re trying to find ways to fix the many problems that go with open world.”, no I didn’t, the thread did) but all I am doing here is repeating what has been said over the last 15 pages. What is kinda frustrating.

The conversation does not move forward if people don’t read the thread and then come with problems that have been solved or at least talked about. It seems to be moving backwards.

“But if you can devise an open world system with all the benefits of instancing, I shall bow before you.” What benefits btw? You have talked about difficulties for the open world version, not benefits other then a easy solution to overcome those difficulties.

“you’ve a couple of times mentioned losing the plot and having to find another one. This is a huge no-no to me.” For sky-maps you would not have that problem in the first place. For ground-maps yes it might happen but only if a map became empty (you see, one of the problems talked about where ghost-towns because of empty maps) or if your guild becomes active (thats also why maps can become empty).

Besides what has this to do with instance vs open world? With the instance you also have to settle for the few themes you got (what is likely less the the number of plots there are on a map). So that is then also a huge no-no to you because you might need to settle for a predefined instance theme / map you do not like?

“Do you have a solution that lets a plot be permanent once acquired” Normally (if the guild does not go inactive) it is permanent like I said, only for the very rare occasion a map gets to empty. And with the sky-map solution you would have a flying air-ship so not really a plot so there would never be the fear of loosing a plot.

You see the air-map this was getting popular because it solved nearly all problems.

“doesn’t make guild hall areas into cookie cutter subdivisions in isolated areas” Isolated area’s? Isen’t that how an instance guild-hall feels? Also Airmaps again would not have this problem and even with ground-maps designed for guild-hall it would not have to be like this depending on how you design the map and where you place the plots.

“and makes every site equally “cool” to guilds placing a hall?” Uhhm Airmaps?

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Morning All,

Chris

I think there should be no minimum size for a guild to access and build a guild hall, it should simply become a harder goal for a small guild.

All guilds should start off with a basic “small” guild hall, and each upgrade to a larger building should cost influence (and time, perhaps). However, the hall itself is just the framework, so to speak.

Let’s look at a very basic item for a guild hall, a meeting table. Now, all guilds start with the ability to place one of a few versions of a small meeting table. However, there are other kinds you can unlock. If you want to replace your standard asuran one with the floating version, you need to earn that unlock. Unlocking this decoration becomes a secondary goal, now that your primary goal of having the hall has been met.

Eventually, you target a medium sized meeting table, and earn the unlock. Now, however, you have a new problem. It’s fancy and all, but it doesn’t fit into your current meeting room. If you want to use it, you need to upgrade/expand the hall again to get a bigger meeting room. Once you’ve done that, then you realize that you can upgrade some of the other decorations as well, and new goals appear for your guild to go after.

The idea here is to not have ONE goal, but to have the hall and upgrading the hall be the big goals, while the things you put inside the hall are a wider variety of smaller goals. Bigger guilds can, of course, meet these goals faster, but up to a point even smaller guilds should be able to meet them eventually.

Now, eventually there should be a limit where small guilds start to run into a road block. A point where guild merits (and more?) start to become part of the cost. This won’t stop all small guilds, but that’s not really the point anyway. The point would be to make better long term goals for a guild to chase, and to prevent the silliness of a two person guild having an epic guild hall (unless those two are totally bad-kittens). An epic guild hall should require a decent effort from an epic guild, or an epic effort from a decent guild.

An idea I wanted to throw into the mix would be could small guilds have a shared Guild Hall with an Alliance?

I think that full-out sharing a guild hall is going to be more trouble than it’s worth. Far to easy to abuse either the system or other members of the alliance.

What worked well in CoH was being able to set your base (hall) as either private or open to coalition (alliance) members. While they couldn’t raid your storage for obvious reasons, they could come in and borrow your teleporters (portals) and some other things, as well as just wander around to look or RP. It could also be set to allow teammates to enter, which proved to be ungodly handy at times.

What would this do in GW2? Small guilds would gain benefits from being allied with a guild with a hall full of conveniences for them to borrow, such as crafting stations and gates. If you want your teammates to be able to use them, however, then they have to be installed in YOUR hall, as you can’t grant them access to someone else’s base. So, there’s reason to share, but it’s still better to have them for yourself as well.

Some small guilds may band together to make a new guild and build a “crafting hall” or “gateway hall”, so that they don’t have to install those within their own guild to access them, but in time a lot of them will slowly outgrow the need for it and stop using it. That’s not a bad thing, really, it should extend the amount of time they’re going to invest into the system without burning out on it.

And if you’re wondering why you would want to let smaller guilds access the things you’ve earned for your guild hall, there’s a couple of possible reasons. The most obvious is that you like these people, and enjoy being around them. There’s also the fact that a guild alliance gives you a bigger pool of players to talk to, useful for getting involved in more events or just having someone to chat with over an alliance chat channel while you’re out and about doing whatever it is that you’re doing.

Thorfinnr Sleggja.1209:

Devata.6589:

Did you read the thread and know what the air-ship suggestions where about?
Basically the idea whas you could build your own airships and for idea’s of what would be possible see the Wizard’s Tower http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wizard's_Tower and the Zephyr Sanctum http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zephyr_Sanctum

In short, yes, I have read the thread…and many ideas that have been listed are fine and actually quite cool…but in perspective…may take a long time in development to get them into the game. Which is why I suggest start small, get the GHs in, get some quick wins with the community, and keep a group(obviously not their only thing) working on new additions to go into GHs say every 2-3 months(some go in automatically, some may need a Guild to “work” toward adding them to their GH). Each small addition could build on the background supporting system development to work up to the big adds that many are suggesting here and get them into the game.

I would expect them keeping adding new stuff to it. But you first do the bulk of work and then start adding stuff, not the other way around.

Donari.5237:

Devata, it’s clear you want open world as strongly as I want instanced. However, I can see you’re trying to find ways to fix the many problems that go with open world. To me, there’s so many hurdles to overcome with that and so many benefits to instancing that instancing simply outweighs open world. But if you can devise an open world system with all the benefits of instancing, I shall bow before you.

One thing concerns me with your proposed fixes so far: you’ve a couple of times mentioned losing the plot and having to find another one. This is a huge no-no to me. There is simply no way to make every open world plot exactly equal in desirability. There will be terrain preferences, views, convenient travel access, zone preferences, and so on. Guilds will take their location into part of their identity (especially role play guilds).

Do you have a solution that lets a plot be permanent once acquired, doesn’t make guild hall areas into cookie cutter subdivisions in isolated areas, and makes every site equally “cool” to guilds placing a hall?

Wait, why are we assuming it has to be A or B? Why can’t it be A and B?

What if we make most guild halls instanced, but then put a limited number of open map spaces out there? If you want one of these open map spaces, you have to fight for it in GvG. Lose the space, and your hall becomes instanced like most of them. Win, and your instanced hall becomes open map in that space you just won.

This would give some serious bragging rights to some of the best GvG groups out there and give them something to fight for, and if the GvG fights are instanced then that keeps it from spilling out into the open world’s PvE.

I’m sure some rules would have to be made to prevent abuse and griefing in the system, but I’m sure something pretty fair can be hammered out.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

‘As for guild alliance halls. They could work, and would be neat. The only issue would be, what happens if the alliance breaks apart? who gets the hall?’

Initial thoughts are that members of the Alliance would each get an instance of the shared guild hall. And yes I am aware I said instance. This is purely because I am a fan of instance over open world (-:

Chris

I also think instances would be better.

That aside I see some problems with cloning instances after a split.

Guild hall sellers.
A guild builds up various things then offer to sell membership in the alliance and the buyer would get a copy when the leave.

Potential solution.
Member guilds only get a copy after they have contributed x amount of resources.

The problem is now event worse.
What if the guild that wants to leave is the one that has already contributed enough resources?

Similarly a guild invites another into an alliance. Then later on threatens to kick/leave before the other would qualify for a copy. Now you have an abusive relation ship on your hands.

Alternative
Instead of merging and splitting instances how about just keeping the plots separate. When a guild joins another they can decide how their plots would link up. When a guild leaves an alliance they keep whatever is built on their plot.

Devata.6589:

Thorfinnr Sleggja.1209:

Devata.6589:

Did you read the thread and know what the air-ship suggestions where about?
Basically the idea whas you could build your own airships and for idea’s of what would be possible see the Wizard’s Tower http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wizard's_Tower and the Zephyr Sanctum http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zephyr_Sanctum

In short, yes, I have read the thread…and many ideas that have been listed are fine and actually quite cool…but in perspective…may take a long time in development to get them into the game. Which is why I suggest start small, get the GHs in, get some quick wins with the community, and keep a group(obviously not their only thing) working on new additions to go into GHs say every 2-3 months(some go in automatically, some may need a Guild to “work” toward adding them to their GH). Each small addition could build on the background supporting system development to work up to the big adds that many are suggesting here and get them into the game.

I would expect them keeping adding new stuff to it. But you first do the bulk of work and then start adding stuff, not the other way around.

OK…apparently this is now Devata’s Thread, and I do not fit in with his expectations of contribution.

Chris and Jon, this was a good thread with many good point-counter-point ideas and discussions, but since 1 person has now decided to deride any suggestions, not only mine, that are not in line with what they think should be done, I will no longer add input to this thread.

Good Luck, and I hope more constructive things like this can take place.

Thorfinnr Sleggja.1209:

OK…apparently this is now Devata’s Thread, and I do not fit in with his expectations of contribution.

Chris and Jon, this was a good thread with many good point-counter-point ideas and discussions, but since 1 person has now decided to deride any suggestions, not only mine, that are not in line with what they think should be done, I will no longer add input to this thread.

Good Luck, and I hope more constructive things like this can take place.

Don’t give up. If I can ignore Jon, then surely you can ignore Devata. But if we fall silent, then the bad ideas win by default.

Devata.6589:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Devata.6589:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

‘As for guild alliance halls. They could work, and would be neat. The only issue would be, what happens if the alliance breaks apart? who gets the hall?’

Initial thoughts are that members of the Alliance would each get an instance of the shared guild hall. And yes I am aware I said instance. This is purely because I am a fan of instance over open world (-:

Chris

Personally I think I’d prefer instanced Guild Halls over open world ones anyway, since I wouldn’t necessarily want people wandering into my hall uninvited. Would be like someone simply wandering into my home without knocking. But, that’s just my take on it.

Now, with each guild getting their own instanced of the previously built “shared” hall, if the guild entered into a new/different alliance would they then lose that, since this different alliance would potentially have their own shared hall? Could they potentially lose all the effort they put into the previously shared hall, or would that effort then translate into the new alliance? (which opens up a whole different selection of issues and potential exploits)

“I wouldn’t necessarily want people wandering into my hall uninvited.”
And why would that be possible in open-world guild-halls?

Especially with doors like in WvW where the guild can set a door only allow guild-members or allow everybody in, or other rules. Whatever they want.

Or guild-hall airships. Maybe you allow gong on to other airships but maybe not. (if the gap between two airships is to big)

That has been given as a solution in this thread.

The common theme with open world is the ability to go anywhere as you please. Thus the keyword “open.” It’s all one big instance without restrictions. To lock non guild members out makes it not ‘open world’ anymore, as the hall becomes its own instance. It’s own map. Similar to crossing from Queensdale to Kessex, for example. Open world guild halls (at least to me) would be much closer to how the lodges function in Hoelbrak.

I’m not sure on the airship proposal. I’m not keen on air ships to be honest. But, that’s just my perspective on it.

Open world means your guild hall is in the open world. That does not mean that there are no restrictions and it does also not mean everybody can get inside it. But everybody could walk or fly past in.

You know just like in real life your house is in the open world but you can’t build everywhere you like and the door prevents unwanted people from getting in.

Basically, my vote is a no. There is an expectation to guild halls IMO, that it’s a private place for Guilds to gather, especially on top of it issues with megaservers and population. As discussed already, what is the population cap of a guild hall? 150-200-400? Right now open world won’t hold much more than 150 people in most cases and we are talking about server plots on maps that are capable of holding something like 1000 players or more?

I’d also like to see Guild halls mapped out like they were in GW, where you had 2 sides (2 structures) that supported GvG, which isn’t possible in an open world scenario. I’m of the mind that you solve every issue discussed by just making them an instance, besides boring and showing off.

Palador.2170:

Thorfinnr Sleggja.1209:

OK…apparently this is now Devata’s Thread, and I do not fit in with his expectations of contribution.

Chris and Jon, this was a good thread with many good point-counter-point ideas and discussions, but since 1 person has now decided to deride any suggestions, not only mine, that are not in line with what they think should be done, I will no longer add input to this thread.

Good Luck, and I hope more constructive things like this can take place.

Don’t give up. If I can ignore Jon, then surely you can ignore Devata. But if we fall silent, then the bad ideas win by default.

lol…oh I will keep reading the thread…you have a great point…we’ll see what happens.

Thorfinnr Sleggja.1209:

Devata.6589:

Thorfinnr Sleggja.1209:

Devata.6589:

Did you read the thread and know what the air-ship suggestions where about?
Basically the idea whas you could build your own airships and for idea’s of what would be possible see the Wizard’s Tower http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wizard's_Tower and the Zephyr Sanctum http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zephyr_Sanctum

In short, yes, I have read the thread…and many ideas that have been listed are fine and actually quite cool…but in perspective…may take a long time in development to get them into the game. Which is why I suggest start small, get the GHs in, get some quick wins with the community, and keep a group(obviously not their only thing) working on new additions to go into GHs say every 2-3 months(some go in automatically, some may need a Guild to “work” toward adding them to their GH). Each small addition could build on the background supporting system development to work up to the big adds that many are suggesting here and get them into the game.

I would expect them keeping adding new stuff to it. But you first do the bulk of work and then start adding stuff, not the other way around.

OK…apparently this is now Devata’s Thread, and I do not fit in with his expectations of contribution.

Chris and Jon, this was a good thread with many good point-counter-point ideas and discussions, but since 1 person has now decided to deride any suggestions, not only mine, that are not in line with what they think should be done, I will no longer add input to this thread.

Good Luck, and I hope more constructive things like this can take place.

I’m waiting on Jon to come back with “a box” list so we can really brainstorm further on potentially good ideas. I’m also waiting on Chris for question 2

I think the idea of open world guild halls is sound, for another game, like Archage

Part 1/3:
My input on things….

Size:
6-10
Anything below 6-10 is really just a glorified party, if you want
A place to call your own, you should just share a home instance…

Alliance:
Just update the GW1 system to be compliant with GW2
“An alliance is a group of two to ten guilds that have allied together under a single banner, for the purposes of communication and player versus player.”
- Let PvP be noted as GvG

Forming an Alliance:
- Leader of the alliance gold has to buy a permit in LA for X-ammt of gold or w.e.
- Invites to other guilds cost X-ammt of gold or w.e. if they decline the cash the money is returned back to the inviter.
- You may have up to 10 Guilds in an Alliance, to remove a guild from an alliance, a majority must sign off on the kick. This would help cut down on any manipulation of lesser guilds within an alliance by forcing all members of the alliance to determine the fate of how their alliance will be shaped.
- The leader of the alliance may not disband the alliance without dissolving the alliance which can be done in a couple of ways: (1) Majority vote to dissolve, (2) Withdrawing the guild that created the alliance from said alliance.
- Guilds may leave the alliance at any time by clicking “Leave Alliance” that will available to only the leader rank or any slave ranks that have that box checked. If a guild leaves they do NOT take anything they contribute with them. (Influence, merits, w.e.)

How this would apply to guild halls:
Just like in Guild Wars 1, any guild can access any other guilds; guild hall as long as they are in the alliance. They would just click the alliance guilds name and click go to guild hall. When they are in the guild hall of an alliance member, they will be treated as an Ally/friendly/ w.e. and will have access to everything that particular guild would have access to with the exception of anything related to that guilds banking. Doing it this way will eliminate any discussion about what will happen if a guild leaves an alliance. Nothing is dramatically changed to the guild halls, the only difference is that you can no longer visit that guild hall and be treated as friendly/ally w.e. and be given the same benefits as that guild, UNLESS you join that guild or have your guild join their new alliance. There for there is no divorce syndrome over who gets what.

Part 2/3:
To Build a Guild Hall:
The Leader Must Purchase “Land Deed” under Politics for 100 Merits & 50,000 Influence
The Build time would take 1 week, standard bureaucratic reasoning, background check by the Seraph, Lions Arch Council, anet making the leaders go through the metal detectors at Lions Arch International Airport the standard.

After that is completed, all the Guild Hall builds will appear under Architecture.
The next build would be “Hire Workers” this will cost 150 Merits and 20,000 Influence.
This will take 3 Days to finish building.

Next is to gather the supplies which can be done in a couple of ways:
(1) Spend 250 Merits and 250,000 Influence to have your workers gather the materials and begin building. Build Time, 1 day.
(2) Have your guild members gather the materials needed and bring them to the workers.
This will be done by Guild Hall Size, you have to start off small, then medium, large, and imperial
Small size (where you start out) will require:
-5,000 Hardwood Logs
-10,000 steel ingots
-2,500 Bolts of Linen
OR: Spend 250 Merits and 250,000 Influence to have your workers gather the materials and begin building. Build Time, 1 day.

Medium Size [Small must be built first before you can expand]:
-3,000 Elder Logs
-6,000 Dark Steel Ingots
-2,000 bolts of silk
OR: Spend 250 Merits and 250,000 Influence to have your workers gather the materials and begin building. Build Time, 1 day.

Large [Requires medium to be built first]
-2,000 Ancient Logs
-3,000 Mithril Ingots
-1,500 Bolts of Gossamer
OR: Spend 250 Merits and 250,000 Influence to have your workers gather the materials and begin building. Build Time, 1 day.

Imperial [Requires Large to be built first]
-500 Spirit Wood Plank
-250 Deldrimor Steel Ingot
-100 Bolts of Damask
OR: Spend 250 Merits and 250,000 Influence to have your workers gather the materials and begin building. Build Time, 1 day.

Part 3/3:

Depending on what size you have your guild hall built too will determine what all you can have built inside.

Small Guild Hall:
-Merchant
Cost 10 Merits and 10,000 Influence
Build Time: 3 Hours

- Armor Crafting Stations
Cost 10 Merits and 10,000 Influence
Build Time: 3 hours

- Karma Vendor
Cost 10 Merits and 10,000 Influence
Build Time: 3 Hours

Guild Vendors:
Cost 10 Merits and 10,000 Influence
Build Time: 3 hours

Medium Guild Halls:
-Black Lion Trader
Cost 25 Merits and 20,000 influence
Build Time: 3 hours

-Weapon Crafting Stations
Cost 25 Merits and 20,000 influence
Build Time: 3 hours

-Guild Vault:
Cost 25 Merits and 20,000 Influence
Build Time: 3 hours

-GvG Lord
Cost 25 Merits and 20,000 influence
Build Time: 3 hours

Large Guild Halls:
-Personal Bank
Cost 30 Merits and 30,000 influence
Build Time: 3 hours

PvP Hot Join NPC:
Cost 30 Merits and 30,000 influence
Build Time: 3 hours

WvW Merchants:
Cost 30 Merits and 30,000 influence
Build Time: 3 hours

Mystic Forge:
Cost 30 Merits and 30,000 influence
Build Time: 3 hours

Basic Nodes:
Cost 30 Merits and 30,000 influence
Build Time: 3 hours

Imperial Guild Halls:
-Training Dummies
Cost 50 Merits and 50,000 influence
Build Time: 3 hours

• PvP dummies you can test your stuff on

-Guild Menagerie
Cost 50 Merits and 50,000 influence
Build Time: 3 hours

• All Tamable Pets in one central location

-Guild Activities
Cost 50 Merits and 50,000 influence
Build Time: 3 hours
*Personalized instance for your guild and alliance to play
The daily activity (bar brawl, keg brawl, south sun survival etc) Only
Members of that guild or alliance can play in said instance from said
Guild hall with that upgrade.

-Asuran Orchestra
Cost 50 Merits and 50,000 influence
Build Time: 3 hours

• An orchestra made up of asura will play the multiple songs
  Within your guild hall. Holiday tunes will be prioritized first.

-End of post-