Guild Wars 2

runeblade.7514:

Controversal Topics that I see around this thread.

My thoughts are as follows:

Scaling- Should Raids be rigid to make balancing easier or, should Raids be very flexible so that all guilds can be more inclusive to their members?

We need a middle ground. The Marionette was a good example of this: Both the defense and the boss fight segments were made to require 5 teams, but a good team could get by with fewer people within that team. However no group, no matter how good they were, could get by with only four teams.

Difficulty- Should Raids be easy enough for casual players, or should raids be difficult so it requires skill on the risk of excluding casual player.

As my suggestion in my recent post suggests, you can have part of the raid open to more casual players, and have only the climax of it require the higher levels of skill and coordination.

Think of it like a typical multi-level dungeon in most RPGs. The first level is easy, but it gets harder as you go down. Getting to the boss requires good skill and equipment. Players are free to go as far as they can get. That way, only a part of the new content would be “raiders only”.

Stacking- What steps should be taken to remove stacking or should it even be removed at all?

I think the better idea is to make it a good idea for the players to move around. Here’s a few ideas (some are, I admit, borrowed from another game):

• The boss calls out the attack and a target’s name. The fewer people near them, the more damage they take. This can easily One-Shot the player if they’re not careful.

• The boss calls out a (different) attack and a target’s name. A moment later, there’s an explosion where that player is standing. The more people there are near them, the more powerful the explosion. A stack of players will become a stack of corpses.

• Parts of the floor become dangerous for an extended period. Standing there will either damage or disable you. These areas appear and disappear throughout the fight.

• Parts of the floor become beneficial for an extended period. You really want to be standing there if at all possible.

• Enemies create AoE buffs when and where they die. A powerful heal or damage reflection will give you good reason to want to spread them out while fighting them.

• Enemies create areas useful to the players when where they die. Perhaps you can only do damage to the boss while you’re standing in one, or maybe while IT is standing in one. Or they may give protection against an otherwise deadly attack (Grand High Viscount of Candy Corn is a good example of this.)

AI- What AI should be in place?

I’ll leave that mostly up to those that are more likely to raid than I, but I do have one suggestion: Some foes should have more than one AI set-up to use.

If you’re taking on a (for example) “Skritt Elementalist”, it’s easy to know what to expect and how to counter it. But if it’s a “Skritt Spell Slinger”, and you don’t know if it’s an Elementalist, Necromancer, or Mesmer until you start the fight, then you have to adapt and quickly.

Rewards- How rewarding should Raids be?

Straight raids? Honestly, not very. Otherwise, you run into the problem of people feeling they HAVE to do the raid to get things, and you wind up with people that don’t really want to be there joining the raids.

Now, if it’s a multi-stage event where non-raiders can jump in and do parts of it? Then that changes, and you can have the non-raid parts give small rewards that can build up to the big ones, and the raid itself can give the bigger rewards, or at least get to them faster.

Punishment- How punishing should failing a raid be? How punishing should dying be?

This is an MMORPG, not a sex dungeon. This isn’t where people go to “enjoy” punishment. If the raid wipes, it can start over again. That’s punishment enough. If you think you need punishment to enjoy yourself, go to the Black Lion forum and suggest they put in a mini of a female skritt that wears black leather and carries a whip.

….

Actually, I want that. But no, no “punishment”, thank you.

@Crystal In GW2 everything is considered endgame. Now this might be considered a fallacy by some, and this is where my problems with traditional raid content in this game come in.

The devs are giving up on their idea of being different. The idea behind this game is that you are relevant in all parts of it regardless of your level. By creating ‘real’ end game content, we are supporting the idea that we play until level 80 and /switch, the game changes.

So to answer your question, this HAS to remain part of the overall game. Otherwise GW2 is moving closer to being indistinguishable from other MMO’s. I am truly hoping for a GW2 twist to raids..otherwise, we are watching an inexorable walk towards mediocrity.

Crystal Reid.2481:

So to get back to your question… Let’s assume that because raiding would be a very new type of content for the game that it’s possible for us to re-write the principles of the game that we have seen so far. So having said that where do you feel raiding falls (end game VS horizontal)?

The principles of the game are what drew people to GW2 from other games in the first place. For a great many of us, that hasnt changed. Moving away from those principles – specifically the concepts of accessibility and shared friendly gameplay – then you destroy the reason many of us are here.

More practically, to answer your question, I would hate to see GW2 become another carbon copy of every other MMO where the only goal is to rush to raid capable status and then the end games becomes little more than raid >waiting for the next raid > raid. That is the wrong place for developers to focus their efforts and it would turn this game into something many of us wouldnt be interested in any longer. This isnt World of Warcraft – it’s GW2. Please keep it that way.

To make it clear though, that doesnt mean we dont want challenging raids or that every encounter should be faceroll. It just means that endgame should be seen as it is now – a wide variety of activities that players can do together. More importantly, you need to do it with the principles and ideals of the game in mind and improve upon what weve seen elsewhere (in typical Anet fashion) – how can it be made inclusive, how will it fit with other endgame content, how can raiding be a way to bring the community together or give friendly players something fun to do with ALL of their friends (not just 10 or 25)? These are important tentpoles holding up the GW2 community. Dont tear them down just to give us something only a small percentage really want (limited exclusionary raiding).

So, in terms of your principles for the game, you really need to stay the course. Raiding can be a fun addition, but it shouldnt be the end all end all of end game.

Crystal Reid.2481:

Let’s assume that because raiding would be a very new type of content for the game that it’s possible for us to re-write the principles of the game that we have seen so far.

That’s a worrying statement. Basically, those principles you are saying might be re-written are the main reason lot of people came to this game in a first place. It’s the reason why lot of those people are still staying even if they are dissatisfied with some late design decisions. It’s also one of the very few things that make GW2 different from other MMORPGs.
GW2 has always been proud of inclusivity and general accessibility of its content to the whole player population. Do not change that.

Astralporing.1957:

Crystal Reid.2481:

Let’s assume that because raiding would be a very new type of content for the game that it’s possible for us to re-write the principles of the game that we have seen so far.

That’s a worrying statement. Basically, those principles you are saying might be re-written are the main reason lot of people came to this game in a first place. It’s the reason why lot of those people are still staying even if they are dissatisfied with some late design decisions. It’s also one of the very few things that make GW2 different from other MMORPGs.
GW2 has always been proud of inclusivity and general accessibility of its content to the whole player population. Do not change that.

This is also the reason why some people suggested to expand on the content that currently exists rather than creating content from the ground up.

GW2 already has an array of tools and content that covers a wide array of game types. There is no special need to re-invent the wheel. Just keep improving it.

Crystal Reid.2481:

So to get back to your question… Let’s assume that because raiding would be a very new type of content for the game that it’s possible for us to re-write the principles of the game that we have seen so far. So having said that where do you feel raiding falls (end game VS horizontal)?

Horizontal. Always horizontal. If you want “end game raids”, there’s a ton of games out there that have been doing it for years, and already have that content. No need to wait for ANet to make some.

In fact, let me fire one back at you: Why do you feel that raids need to wait for the “end” of the game? Is there a reason we can’t have a raid tuned for level 40 or 60?

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Astralporing.1957:

Crystal Reid.2481:

Let’s assume that because raiding would be a very new type of content for the game that it’s possible for us to re-write the principles of the game that we have seen so far.

That’s a worrying statement. Basically, those principles you are saying might be re-written are the main reason lot of people came to this game in a first place. It’s the reason why lot of those people are still staying even if they are dissatisfied with some late design decisions. It’s also one of the very few things that make GW2 different from other MMORPGs.
GW2 has always been proud of inclusivity and general accessibility of its content to the whole player population. Do not change that.

To be clear Crystal is simply engaging in brain storming. The foundation of GW2 as we know it is the core foundation that we should be building our proposal from. This said broadening our field of view outside of this is a good way of finding good ideas and then working to apply them to new areas.

Chris

Broadening the focus of the game is great, but at a practical level, there are certain steps and changes you cannot make without damaging (or at least changing) longstanding ideals and principles. The nature of end game and your approach to cooperative inclusive gameplay are near the top of that list for many of us.

I think what the responses to her post are trying to point out is that those principles are important to us and how we play the game. Yes, grow (broaden) the game – give us many many fun new things to do – but do so without compromising (ie changing) those core principles.

Introducing raiding doesnt mean changing the principles of the game. You have the tools and youve proven you know how to make fun large scale encounters. Fall back on those strengths to accomplish this goal.

lunacrous.6751:

Crystal Reid.2481:

Let’s assume that because raiding would be a very new type of content for the game that it’s possible for us to re-write the principles of the game that we have seen so far.

That’s…. a bit scary to hear. I’m sure it’s intended in reference to game mechanics and encounter design, but I can’t help but read it as relating to rewards and the dreaded specter of gear progression. I’d like some reassurances that it doesn’t.

I wouldn’t worry about that happening, A majority of both sides don’t want gear progression long term it hurts both sides.

What I do want rewards wise is a reward that unequivocally states you have made it into the top x% of the playerbase combat wise (where x is the completion rate of the hardest raid). To me thats worth 1000 pretty skins and what I feel raids should be trying to achieve.

Crystal Reid.2481:

So having said that where do you feel raiding falls (end game VS horizontal)?

I’d want to see Raids as end game content. Others are right in stating that other games have raids as end game content – it’s what they are normally categorised as. However I’m not sure I follow the logic where that therefore means they shouldn’t be end game content in GW2. It’s not like end game raids make a game worse or less appealing and I don’t want to be forced to go play a different game to play the type of content I like. It’s important to avoid getting hung up on whether GW2 should or shouldn’t be taking cues from other games and to focus on making raids they best they can be, regardless of where the ideas come from.

I’d like to see raids as end game content as challenging PVE content is something that is currently missing from the game and raids could the thing that fills the hole. It’s not as if end game raids make all other content redundant. In fact if they weren’t end game you could argue they could be so similar to other content such as dungeons or world bosses depending on their final form that they would start making other content redundant.

I suppose ultimately people want raids to be accessible. However if they are too easy they make the game as a whole less accessible. Those who want easier content, who already have a very diverse selection to choose from will get more, which is great for them. But those who want the challenging endgame PVE content that is currently lacking would be left out. In that sense by making raids more accessible, GW2 could potentially miss an opportunity to appeal to a wider audience.

Palador.2170:

Is there a reason we can’t have a raid tuned for level 40 or 60?

Players pass levels 40 and 60. In the end you find yourself working with level 80s downscaled to 40 or 60 more often than not.

Assuming the downscaling was perfect (it isn’t, but that can be adjusted) you still end up with two problems: level 80s are more likely to be running good gear, and even between level 40s you have a huge disparity between players. Some know the game and are levelling an alt. Some are doing it for the first time and will find content geared towards experienced players impossible.

Even amongst level 80s, there’s a disparity between player skill levels, but at least they all have access to the same skills, traits and gear.

Proposal Overview
Instanced Raids. I personally do not feel raids have any place in GW2. I simply don’t think it fits with the spirit of the game, but if you must put it in, make it instanced. Creating open-world Tequatl size bosses just create a lot of havoc and problems. The idea of raids are organized(key word organized) difficult content handled by a larger group, typically guilds. Please do not make raids open world.

Goal of Proposal
Instance the raids similar to dungeons. Do not make them open world.

Proposal Functionality
Use the same dungeon functionality that exists in the game. Even utilize the LFG tool to allow the raids to be more accessible.

Associated Risks
You risk segregating the player base but again, I do not think raids have any part in the game nor do I necessarily wish to see them in GW2. Raids are “end game” and since forever we have been told the entire game is endgame. Also, I remember Colin once saying that players in the open world tackling events is the spirit of GW2. If you keep that mantra and put in place raid bosses, such as Tequatl, you will have what we have today with Tequatl. Pre-megaservers, only one or two servers tackling it daily and only one large guild tackling it. Also, if you are in a guild or group, it is diffuclt to get into the same overflow.

This is why I think the raids should be instanced. It segregates the playerbase but avoids a lot of the problems that open-world bosses have. Also, you have a bit more creative freedom with regard to boss mechanics, something GW2 is not necessarily known for and can definitely improve upon.

My two cents.

Edit: as with other posters, the gear from raids should be equivalent to exotic or ascended. No more tiers obviously. The raids are simply for tackling difficult content or an alternate way of acquiring ascended gear.

I was reading about dodges and I can’t help to think of a perfect scenario where dodges are really useful: Twilight Arbor Aether, last boss – Clockheart.

If you go ranged, that fight touchs something that I can clearly say it’s one of the best things about GW2 combat system: Positional awareness. In that fight, the boss throws some gears that will always land on you. Your positional awareness is what will keep you alive, but a dodge to exit from a gear that will land on you in the last second is a really good concept. ¿Why? Because the damage will still be there after you dodge, you can’t just step back and stay where you were, that piece of land gets “corrupted” by the gear and you need to keep moving.

TL;DR Dodge should be used to improve mobility, not to become inmune to all damage. Achieving that might be a programming nightmare, but that’s my feedback. That’s where dodges fit.

edit: For a raid fight, a place where you are forced to keep moving and the room getting corrupted over time slowly would be really nice. It wouldn’t matter your build, your class or whatever, only your positional awareness. That said i’d like if this doesn’t happen in a boss fight (the toxic community would just try to do an insane DPS race and ignore the mechanic) but instead in a puzzle to the room of the boss. Something like… i don’t know, running from the rock in Indiana Jones… with lava, enemies that can cripple if you don’t dodge, jumps, etc (Not like the lame attempt at volcanic fractal, that’s level Easy of positional awareness, i want level Hard where people needs to dodge even arrows thrown by you from the far distance and you see them coming… pew pew… i can dream ok?!).

Concerning some mechanics…

Proposal Overview
This is GW2’s opportunity to let the combat system shine instead of falling back into the trap of pounding one key over and over. You have combo fields that remove conditions as well as other abilities and traits that really synergize. Use that.

Goal of Proposal
Use the strength of CC abilities, healing abilities, support abilities. DPS will always be there, but focus on creating boss fights that revolve around the other aspects of group combat.

Proposal Functionality
Example: One boss might be particularly prone to blinds. This allows thieves to create some interesting builds revolving dark fields and blinds to keep the boss “stunned”. This also suggests you need to remove the ‘defiant’ mechanic altogether. completely. Its just a bad design. Also, possibly take a page from Wildstar’s book. Reward players for interrupting casting with MoO(Moments of Opportunity) via double damage. Sometimes you need to chain two or 3 interrupts in succession to trigger the MoO.

Associated Risks
You risk the trap that WoW fell into with “bring the class not the player” early on. There were bosses that required certain classes, such as mage tanking in Gruuls lair. However, still, these were the best raiding days. Ask any WoW vet and they will say their best raiding came out of TBC when the “bring the class not the player” format(unintentional by the devs however) was still prevalent.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Neon.5976:

Crystal Reid.2481:

So having said that where do you feel raiding falls (end game VS horizontal)?

I’d want to see Raids as end game content. Others are right in stating that other games have raids as end game content – it’s what they are normally categorised as. However I’m not sure I follow the logic where that therefore means they shouldn’t be end game content in GW2. It’s not like end game raids make a game worse or less appealing and I don’t want to be forced to go play a different game to play the type of content I like. It’s important to avoid getting hung up on whether GW2 should or shouldn’t be taking cues from other games and to focus on making raids they best they can be, regardless of where the ideas come from.

I’d like to see raids as end game content as challenging PVE content is something that is currently missing from the game and raids could the thing that fills the hole. It’s not as if end game raids make all other content redundant. In fact if they weren’t end game you could argue they could be so similar to other content such as dungeons or world bosses depending on their final form that they would start making other content redundant.

I suppose ultimately people want raids to be accessible. However if they are too easy they make the game as a whole less accessible. Those who want easier content, who already have a very diverse selection to choose from will get more, which is great for them. But those who want the challenging endgame PVE content that is currently lacking would be left out. In that sense by making raids more accessible, GW2 could potentially miss an opportunity to appeal to a wider audience.

Personally I would also want to see raids as end game content and by that I mean level 80 only.

Chris

Hi, I mentioned this in my first post a few moments ago. I could be out of date as well as this mind set that we were given early on…but isn’t the entire game ‘endgame’ ? Hop in, do whatever you want to do. No pressure, nada. Take your time, the whole thing is your oyster. When you start creating level 80 content only, ala raids, you segregate the playerbase much like other games where its then a rush to max level to do the raids. All of the gorgeous 1-80 content you have in this game becomes completely trivial and a stepping stone to the real game. You might as well just allow people to boost to 80 via potions or something and skip leveling all together because it becomes absolutely meaningless. A meaningless time sink. I didnt need 80 levels to learn my class. Maybe less than two dozen and I had it down. The rest was just enjoyment because the 1-80 content was nice. I leveled through it without any pressure. Put max level content in the game, and we will feel rushed to get to the real stuff. Its human nature.

For this reason, I do not think raids belong in GW2. But if they are to be implemented, I do have suggestions which I have shared

Chris Whiteside.6102:

cesmode.4257:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Neon.5976:

Crystal Reid.2481:

So having said that where do you feel raiding falls (end game VS horizontal)?

I’d want to see Raids as end game content. Others are right in stating that other games have raids as end game content – it’s what they are normally categorised as. However I’m not sure I follow the logic where that therefore means they shouldn’t be end game content in GW2. It’s not like end game raids make a game worse or less appealing and I don’t want to be forced to go play a different game to play the type of content I like. It’s important to avoid getting hung up on whether GW2 should or shouldn’t be taking cues from other games and to focus on making raids they best they can be, regardless of where the ideas come from.

I’d like to see raids as end game content as challenging PVE content is something that is currently missing from the game and raids could the thing that fills the hole. It’s not as if end game raids make all other content redundant. In fact if they weren’t end game you could argue they could be so similar to other content such as dungeons or world bosses depending on their final form that they would start making other content redundant.

I suppose ultimately people want raids to be accessible. However if they are too easy they make the game as a whole less accessible. Those who want easier content, who already have a very diverse selection to choose from will get more, which is great for them. But those who want the challenging endgame PVE content that is currently lacking would be left out. In that sense by making raids more accessible, GW2 could potentially miss an opportunity to appeal to a wider audience.

Personally I would also want to see raids as end game content and by that I mean level 80 only.

Chris

Hi, I mentioned this in my first post a few moments ago. I could be out of date as well as this mind set that we were given early on…but isn’t the entire game ‘endgame’ ? Hop in, do whatever you want to do. No pressure, nada. Take your time, the whole thing is your oyster. When you start creating level 80 content only, ala raids, you segregate the playerbase much like other games where its then a rush to max level to do the raids. All of the gorgeous 1-80 content you have in this game becomes completely trivial and a stepping stone to the real game. You might as well just allow people to boost to 80 via potions or something and skip leveling all together because it becomes absolutely meaningless. A meaningless time sink. I didnt need 80 levels to learn my class. Maybe less than two dozen and I had it down. The rest was just enjoyment because the 1-80 content was nice. I leveled through it without any pressure. Put max level content in the game, and we will feel rushed to get to the real stuff. Its human nature.

For this reason, I do not think raids belong in GW2. But if they are to be implemented, I do have suggestions which I have shared

Yep this is an astute point. Let’s not worry about levels in this discussion then. However we should focus on the foundation of this content being challenging, requiring skill and strategic co-operation whilst being build around the core combat, movement and accessibility of GW2.

Chris

In that case see my other two posts. Ive touched on those aspects.

There are level 80 dungeons. I think what is meant by that statement is that there are multiple ways to go about leveling and few hindrances to your character throughout the process. While the trait and NPE changed this to a degree, there is still great freedom here. In WoW I had to do quests and kill to progress. While hearts/events and kills still achieve that here, I’m still progressing a bit just by exploring parts of the map, mining/logging/gathering, by crafting, vistas, etc. I don’t think endgame (in the sense that it is for lvl 80 “geared” characters) nullifies the greatness of the experience along the way. I still like doing map completion just to walk around again, despite the fact that I have no legendary plans. The key possibility excites me, but it’s hardly my goal. Endgame is just cool max level stuff to challenge groups of players. As long as there is no gear treadmill, I cannot see any reason to rush through what was otherwise a really enjoyable experience. I did it once per profession, and I’m sure others have leveled up way more than 8 characters to 80.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Personally I would also want to see raids as end game content and by that I mean level 80 only.

Chris

I suppose endgame isn’t the best word in the world to be using so liberally. It does usually mean content to play once at max level but for a lot of players, myself included, it has a lot of other implications as well.

cesmode.4257:

When you start creating level 80 content only, ala raids, you segregate the playerbase much like other games where its then a rush to max level to do the raids. All of the gorgeous 1-80 content you have in this game becomes completely trivial and a stepping stone to the real game. You might as well just allow people to boost to 80 via potions or something and skip leveling all together because it becomes absolutely meaningless.

I remember it being stated how the whole game is end game content. At level 80 you can continue running through the world, exploring, completing dynamic events etc. But that’s not what i’ve been doing since I hit level 80 – I don’t know anybody who spends the majority of their time doing that after they have leveled up.

There are already dungeons and world bosses, sPvP and WvW. Players are already being attracted by different types of content. The idea that the addition of what would ultimately just be one more instanced type of content would cause the rest of the game to suddenly become devoid of players seems a little baseless. Sure I can imagine if the rewards were far too generous then farmers would flock to it. But can you really see a PvPer giving up on PvP forever just because they could be doing raids instead? What about a WvW player or a world boss enthusiast? If that were the case wouldn’t the explorable modes of Honor of the Waves, Crucible of Eternity and Arah along with Fractals, all of which are designed for level 80, already be doing this?

Chris Whiteside.6102:

What I would like to see is us taking the very best of the core of our game and then re-imagining what co-operative, strategic and challenging instanced content could be rather than retro fitting existing paradigms.

Some folks have been doing this, it would be great if we could all focus on this as the spring board for discussion.Chris

Sorry to get a little off-topic. I already posted most of my high-level preferences in a big double-post on page 7. I just wanted to reply to something I disagreed with.

By that do you mean you’re looking for more detailed concepts of what an individual raid could involve? For example suggestions / brainstorms for a particular encounter within a raid?

Chris Whiteside.6102:

While I am on the subject let’s also frame the discussion around 15 player’s with the ability to do encounters with less.

I don’t want to constrain us to much but I think this will be helpful.
Chris

With that as a basis I would expect it to be composed of three parties of 5 players, preformed outside of the instance.
The three parties progress through the raid as a group for the most part with split points where each party is separated temporarily and has to survive some combat/puzzle/mini-boss , wiping of one group leads to failure of the condition for the other two groups.
I think this sort of splitting up is important in ensuring the content is difficult and that each player is competent. Additionally it allows for some interesting encounter mechanics, say pulling a leaver in your area has a effect on one of the other fights.

I see the focal points for rewards and progression to be around bosses, The three parties fight them together, no hard seperation but their should likely be some form of “events” that encourage splitting up during the encounter. Bosses act as a gate to further into the area, one or two people had concerns over bosses being the focal point being too similar to other MMO’s but I think its still a good way to do it.
To progress each individual player must kill the boss , to get to the next, this means that a player who has only ever killed the first boss cannot join a party at the 3rd boss, they must kill the second, this is a big part of what will help make Raids challenging, with no way to bypass their block they either have to improve or stop for the moment.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Neon.5976:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

What I would like to see is us taking the very best of the core of our game and then re-imagining what co-operative, strategic and challenging instanced content could be rather than retro fitting existing paradigms.

Some folks have been doing this, it would be great if we could all focus on this as the spring board for discussion.Chris

Sorry to get a little off-topic. I already posted most of my high-level preferences in a big double-post on page 7. I just wanted to reply to something I disagreed with.

By that do you mean you’re looking for more detailed concepts of what an individual raid could involve? For example suggestions / brainstorms for a particular encounter within a raid?

Well one way to approach to it would be to brainstorm what an encounter could be like based on our core combat and movement. What cool things could we do with dodge, the way we build our environments, bundles, combos, profession support, etc. How should enemies behave? How big a part should the environment play? etc.

This way we can start to build up a shared vision of just how cool the encounters could be and then build from there.

Chris

I won’t post anything else today as I’m just about to head off to bed. However do you have a particular difficulty level in mind at this point? I can think up some ideas but they wouldn’t all be appropriate for every difficulty. Its hard without much context.

As a longtime player but by no means ‘hardcore’, I would hope that any instanced raiding implementation would also have a ‘normal’ mode. Otherwise, you guys will be putting out new instances/areas/mechanics/etc that only the top 10% (for example) will ever be able to experience. This would also help any raid-related releases generate excitement for all players, because even if you don’t have hours at a time to spend raiding, you could still somehow enjoy the content in a more relaxed way. (with obviously significantly reduced rewards).

Or potentially if some large scale events happened in the open world at a ‘decently hard’ difficulty, with the potential for guilds to create instanced ‘hard’ versions of those events.

Palador.2170:

Think of it like a typical multi-level dungeon in most RPGs. The first level is easy, but it gets harder as you go down. Getting to the boss requires good skill and equipment. Players are free to go as far as they can get. That way, only a part of the new content would be “raiders only”.

This is the opposite of what I would like to see. Hardcore players have to sleepwalk through ‘easy’ content, and casual players miss out on potentially some cool levels. I’d rather just see two versions of the same dungeon, one that is beatable by more or less everyone, and one that is truly difficult (with higher rewards).

The Great Al.2546:

As a longtime player but by no means ‘hardcore’, I would hope that any instanced raiding implementation would also have a ‘normal’ mode. Otherwise, you guys will be putting out new instances/areas/mechanics/etc that only the top 10% (for example) will ever be able to experience. This would also help any raid-related releases generate excitement for all players, because even if you don’t have hours at a time to spend raiding, you could still somehow enjoy the content in a more relaxed way. (with obviously significantly reduced rewards).

Or potentially if some large scale events happened in the open world at a ‘decently hard’ difficulty, with the potential for guilds to create instanced ‘hard’ versions of those events.

No. Too much is already catered to casuals and new players. We want this to be confusing and difficult.

If the raid could copy the PvP-side technology , where every1 have the same stats (even from lvl 1) , it could help with the ‘’whole game is end game content ’’ .

Edit : And you can join with ‘’raids maps’’ with any 1 lvl alt , if yuo have atleastone lvl 80 character ragadles of gear .

CMM.6712:

The Great Al.2546:

As a longtime player but by no means ‘hardcore’, I would hope that any instanced raiding implementation would also have a ‘normal’ mode. Otherwise, you guys will be putting out new instances/areas/mechanics/etc that only the top 10% (for example) will ever be able to experience. This would also help any raid-related releases generate excitement for all players, because even if you don’t have hours at a time to spend raiding, you could still somehow enjoy the content in a more relaxed way. (with obviously significantly reduced rewards).

Or potentially if some large scale events happened in the open world at a ‘decently hard’ difficulty, with the potential for guilds to create instanced ‘hard’ versions of those events.

No. Too much is already catered to casuals and new players. We want this to be confusing and difficult.

Yes, and you will get the confusing and difficult. I am asking for a separate version that is catered to the casual player that will have absolutely no negative impact on the real raiders. Think about regular vs hard mode in GW1. You can play hard mode and not even know that regular mode exists. Why would you be against everyone else being able to play a toned down (in terms of difficultly and reward) version?

I honestly get kind of worried that ANet will take on board these “make it so X and Y active defense mechanics don’t work on boss Z” suggestions. I mean if you make a game with active combat reliant on combat awareness, why would you then punish people who have the reflexes to actually dodge boss choreographs?

And if a raid is going to force us to spread out in a fight it would be nice if it was for a legitimate reason and not just "well, the community didn’t like meleeing so let’s have it so everyone runs around with ranged weapons because raid boss A has big scary one-shot pulsing PbAoE of doom.

Taking feedback from the community is good but I think the sillier ideas or ones fueled by resentment and completely disregarding sense should be filtered.

Conditions
In the core, I like how the conditions work in GW2. However, it’s often mentioned that these mechanics don’t scale up with many players. I already had posted some random thoughts about that previously in this thread here, but now I’ve taken some time to work on a concept how some conditions actually could work in a fight with many players.

The core of the concept is that on “tough” mobs, like champions, applied conditions are converted to some other, similar debuff, that can stack up, regardless of the condition. But of course these stacks should have a reasonable limit. Also, each stack has a limited duration, which of course could be less than the duration of the original condition.

And, the following examples are what they are: Examples.

• Blind: Each stack increases the chance of the mob to miss the next attack, like 5 to 10% per stack. All stacks are removed when the mob attacks, regardless if it misses or not.
• Burning: A certain number of stacks is needed to ignite the mob. When it’s ignited (and now receives damage for some time), all stacks are removed and must be regathered again
• Chilled: Each stack increases the internal cooldown of skills or reduces the attack speed by X%.
• Crippled: Each stack reduces movement speed by X%
• Fear: As with Burning, X stacks are needed to trigger the fear-effect.
• Immobilized: Each stack reduces movement speed by X%. The maximum of stacks could mean a complete immobilization, or the unability to use some mob-specific skills (such as charge attacks)
• Poison: Let tough mobs have a serious amount of passive regeneration, which is reduced by X% for each stack of poison.
• Vulnerability: Each stack grants less additional damage than usual (say 0.5% instead of 1%), but stacks can go higher (say, up to 50)
• Weakness: As with blindness, each stack increases the chance of an attack to be a glancing blow.

These changes wouldn’t compromise the concept the conditions are based on, but would make them more compatible with huge amounts of players. My vision would be that people don’t just roll their faces over the keyboard, but have to apply conditions in a coordinated, goal oriented way. So for example, when that attack comes, the mob better has a huge amount of blindness and weakness stacks on it, so the damage is mitigated. Or a boss, that simply runs in circles, and everytime it reaches a certain spot, spawns a huge (and dangerous) amount of adds – so you better keep immobilization and cripple on it.

The Great Al.2546:

CMM.6712:

The Great Al.2546:

As a longtime player but by no means ‘hardcore’, I would hope that any instanced raiding implementation would also have a ‘normal’ mode. Otherwise, you guys will be putting out new instances/areas/mechanics/etc that only the top 10% (for example) will ever be able to experience. This would also help any raid-related releases generate excitement for all players, because even if you don’t have hours at a time to spend raiding, you could still somehow enjoy the content in a more relaxed way. (with obviously significantly reduced rewards).

Or potentially if some large scale events happened in the open world at a ‘decently hard’ difficulty, with the potential for guilds to create instanced ‘hard’ versions of those events.

No. Too much is already catered to casuals and new players. We want this to be confusing and difficult.

Yes, and you will get the confusing and difficult. I am asking for a separate version that is catered to the casual player that will have absolutely no negative impact on the real raiders. Think about regular vs hard mode in GW1. You can play hard mode and not even know that regular mode exists. Why would you be against everyone else being able to play a toned down (in terms of difficultly and reward) version?

The only reason I would be against it is more work for the team. Other than that, I don’t have a problem with it. Seems like double the work to me though, just saying.

Why Raiding?

• In my opinion, there is only one advantage raiding has over smaller group combat. It’s not “challenging content”, because I’ve played 5-man content that is equal to or exceeding the difficulty of what most people would consider “end-game raids.” The main thing raids can bring to the table (outside of the social experience) is that it brings more players, and therefore more possible builds.

Taking Advantage of Raiding:

• Content for raiding should be approached differently than dungeons. Dungeon cannot assume that players have access to certain things without actually making group requirements too strict. With 10-20 players, however, this becomes possible. Here are two examples of things I hardly ever see in Guild Wars 2 PvE: (Note that the things I suggest are not class-specific. I wouldn’t recommend something like Mesmer Portal since that’s only for Mesmers, but more general roles.)

• Interrupting: Not taking Defiant into consideration, these are very rarely used because all dungeons can be completed without them. Tootsie from Dry Top is a good example of a creature taking advantage of the fact that players in PvE interrupting things is something we should really expect.

• Conditions: The Partially Digested husks on the Triple Trouble encounter show how to make conditions necessary for success: Just add creatures with high toughness and low health. This is something that can be used.

CMM.6712:

The Great Al.2546:

CMM.6712:

The Great Al.2546:

As a longtime player but by no means ‘hardcore’, I would hope that any instanced raiding implementation would also have a ‘normal’ mode. Otherwise, you guys will be putting out new instances/areas/mechanics/etc that only the top 10% (for example) will ever be able to experience. This would also help any raid-related releases generate excitement for all players, because even if you don’t have hours at a time to spend raiding, you could still somehow enjoy the content in a more relaxed way. (with obviously significantly reduced rewards).

Or potentially if some large scale events happened in the open world at a ‘decently hard’ difficulty, with the potential for guilds to create instanced ‘hard’ versions of those events.

No. Too much is already catered to casuals and new players. We want this to be confusing and difficult.

Yes, and you will get the confusing and difficult. I am asking for a separate version that is catered to the casual player that will have absolutely no negative impact on the real raiders. Think about regular vs hard mode in GW1. You can play hard mode and not even know that regular mode exists. Why would you be against everyone else being able to play a toned down (in terms of difficultly and reward) version?

The only reason I would be against it is more work for the team. Other than that, I don’t have a problem with it. Seems like double the work to me though, just saying.

I think taking the time to flip the difficulty from hard to easy (lowering enemy health/removing some difficult mechanics/etc) would potentially be significantly less time than designing brand new casual content. Depending on what causes the raid to be difficult, it would just be tweaks, hopefully.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Very cool, good start.

How about we focus on progression later and start brainstorming the core activities and encounters.

i feel like I am already overly constraining so if this much guidance is to much then let me know.
Chris

The guidance is actually quite helpful otherwise its just a wall of people shouting every idea that comes into their head for every section and it can get a kittenaotic.

On encounters:

Trash Mobs (non-bosses)
- These should be on patrol routes, it acts as a reward and a risk , if you’re good you can avoid some of them. If you position yourself poorly you risk running into a second patrol.
I see one patrol group as being no real threat, they may down a few players but only one patrol should not result in a wipe, agroing a second patrols worth and they become a threat, three patrols and only an extremely organised group will survive.
-Dodge rolls, the enemies can dodge too, no where near as frequently as players but if they feel theres too much PBAoe occuring they can dodge roll out of it.
-Downed state: similar to the Toxic alliance mobs some of the patrol members have a downed state.

Mini bosses
-Mainly fought in your mini parties, with a few fought at a full raid party.
-can have complementry mechanics, I.e 3 aspect bosses (A,W,H) take damage from all sources initially, if A is killed the remaining two become immune to Artificer weapons or Ranged, if W is killed immune to weaponsmith weapons or Melee, if H is killed immune to huntsmith or conditions. This causes the parties to try and coordinate killing at the same time.

Event Mini Bosses
I used an example of one earlier, Picture an inquest facility raid you enter an area and a 5 minute countdown starts.
1-2 people need to man a fixed cannon that is preventing waves of re-enforcements entering the fight, without this the party quickly becomes overwhelmed.
1-2 people need to stabalise a force field that is holding back captive dragon minions, failure to do so results in their release.
1-4 people need to take out long range casters (snipers) hanging in the gantry above the event area, or they’ll continue to rain fire down (could increase in damage the longer they are left)
1-4 people need to go down to the base level to prevent golems from activating and coming up to the main level.
The remaining 1-3 people then need to fight a miniboss on a gantry over a molten metal container, upon his death the golems go nuts self destruct sealing off the re-enforcements, the forcefield fails after 20 seconds and the players must fight off the dragon minions and then progress through their to the next area.

This gives everyone in the party a clear job to do and allows some wiggle room (a party could choose to not stabilise the force field if they feel they can take down the boss in time), the countdown is critical here otherwise players will just clear each event individually.

Bosses
To complex to fit in this post, will cover in another,
Just a note on the bosses space I would like it to be a vast area, I feel like several of the Dungeon fights take place in quite cramped spaces and a larger arena for spreading out especially with the larger party would be helpful.

Hi, I’m bad at formatting so I’m just gonna type my ideas out as they come to me. Dodging is obviously a key element for GW2. It provides movement and an invuln window. If I were to design a raid encounter, the first boss would start with the focus on dodging. More so on the movement side of the dodge, rather than the invuln window. Too much invuln would cheese the fight, maybe make the Raid boss unblockable, but I could see issues arising with Aegis and other class invulns, so I can’t speak on behalf of that concept. Every player once they hit 80 knows how to dodge. It is a low enough skill requirement that everyone can do it, the encounter would need players to focus on exactly what to dodge and what not to. You could implement some sort of endurance regen into the encounter, maybe a 100% endurance regen buff while in the instance. This alone would make the encounter feel much more fast-paced by allowing players to zip around the map quicker and focus on coordination and positioning much easier. I’m assuming any raid boss would have the nice red telegraphs as seen at Teq and TT. Use these telegraphs to force players into making much smarter positional calls while focusing on burn phases and survival phases. I noticed a Halloween tonic had a red telegraph I’ve never seen used anywhere else in the game, design more intricate telegraphs like that to make encounters much fresher and more fun to learn. Since players would have the endurance regen buff, use it to allow players to get to point A and B much quicker, etc. I could also see some consumable being granted to all players in the instance that give them a 900 range leap every 15 seconds or so rather than the endurance regen buff. The consumable should not overwrite skills, it should give players a new skill in place of their F5 key. Sort of like a unique raid skill only for that encounter, they can rebind the key as they feel suited. Bring interesting player mechanics to encounters like 100% movement speed, 25% less gravity, 50k more hp, a 4th Utility slot, or permanent out-of-combat mode. Ideas like these can really change how players approach fights, which I feel is key to a raid encounter. It’s all about theories and testing and failing. Finally beating the boss you spent hours working on is an amazing feeling. Not even the most exceptional players should be able to clear a raid encounter the first night the content is released.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Conski Deshan.2057:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

While I am on the subject let’s also frame the discussion around 15 player’s with the ability to do encounters with less.

I don’t want to constrain us to much but I think this will be helpful.
Chris

With that as a basis I would expect it to be composed of three parties of 5 players, preformed outside of the instance.
The three parties progress through the raid as a group for the most part with split points where each party is separated temporarily and has to survive some combat/puzzle/mini-boss , wiping of one group leads to failure of the condition for the other two groups.
I think this sort of splitting up is important in ensuring the content is difficult and that each player is competent. Additionally it allows for some interesting encounter mechanics, say pulling a leaver in your area has a effect on one of the other fights.

I see the focal points for rewards and progression to be around bosses, The three parties fight them together, no hard seperation but their should likely be some form of “events” that encourage splitting up during the encounter. Bosses act as a gate to further into the area, one or two people had concerns over bosses being the focal point being too similar to other MMO’s but I think its still a good way to do it.
To progress each individual player must kill the boss , to get to the next, this means that a player who has only ever killed the first boss cannot join a party at the 3rd boss, they must kill the second, this is a big part of what will help make Raids challenging, with no way to bypass their block they either have to improve or stop for the moment.

Very cool, good start.

How about we focus on progression later and start brainstorming the core activities and encounters.

i feel like I am already overly constraining so if this much guidance is to much then let me know.

Chris

I cant get past the 15 player set group restriction you’re trying to set, which basically shuts down the scaling option. Some of us have real issue with that and its potential effect on the community – that we have communicated very clearly – and making that assumption going in (after I and many others have clearly made valid points on this topic) means that I, unfortunately, dont feel welcome in this conversation.

Im sorry this comes across caustic, but this is a very disheartening issue for me. Ive been playing alongside groups averaging between 30-45 players (every one of which is qualified to raid, imo) for almost 2 years that I refuse to leave behind in set number raids because we cant divide them up by 15 reliably every time.

I was forced to do that for years in other games – Guild Wars 2 was supposed to be different. The devs were supposed to care about things like this and keep that exclusionary stuff out of the game.

I would love to join the conversation about mechanics, but not if the end result is something that will potentially fracture the group of players I care so much about in this game.

I noticed that groups work together better when they’re forced to fight multiple non-stackable enemies.
An example of that we’ve seen it already in Lion’s Arch attack, at the Scarlet Holograms fight. There was a moment where you needed to kill a blue one (with insane phisical defense, but conditions did lot of damage on it), a green one (that we used to melee because it’s attacks were “easy” to dodge) and a red one (mostly ranged because of all the fire fields that it fired to us).
That entire fight was a masterpiece of Raiding content and i’m sad that we can’t fight them anymore. That was the right direction, keep the good work there.

Why it was good? 2 Reasons.
1: Teamwork rewarded. If you killed all 3 at the same time, the little 18 holograms that spawn later wouldn’t appear, saving you a nasty fight.
2: Controlled Chaotic Fight. When a non-experienced group or not very good one killed the 3 holograms but didn’t made it at the same time, 18 little holograms appeared (6 for each of the previous ones). They were chasing players, moving around etc.
The result was a lot of players killing them BUT each player had a goal. You would see necromancers chasing the blue ones, warriors dpsing the green ones and guardians trying to reflect the red ones, as example. Everyone had a goal and they often had to run through other players fight and try to not get involved because your personal enemy was a few meters away and was your duty to kill it.
It was hell, but it was awesome hell because it was a chaotic fight in a controlled battlefield where your personal awareness of the battelfield was mandatory if you did want to become useful.

That + npcs rezzing + 4 different phases + all the laser areas in the ground = masterpiece of raiding content ^^

I get this thread is all about new ideas, but hey Anet, you had a really good one, it worked really nice. It had my entire server engaged, enough to say that we killed the 3 holograms 75 freaking times in that 2 weeks (i did keep tracking them since i needed the obsidian shards for my legendary, which precursor actually dropped at that time as well xD).

So… to summary it a bit: It could be interesting and might be worth to try to have 3 different bosses at the same time. Each of them with different skills but all together (maybe even involving minions, you can’t damage 1 of them if his minions are alive, etc)

I hope you get my point.

Edit And please NO more timing fights. Even if takes 2 hours to kill an enemy, we should be able to do it at our own pacing.

Chris, I noticed you mention you want the raids to be 15-man, with the possibility of completing it with less than 15. So with that in mind we would need to avoid ‘puzzles’ like the CoF P1 brazier room and TA Aether static room. Please avoid puzzles that require players to physically be there in order to complete it. Let’s say for example there are two buttons that need to be stood on to open a door, normally you would need two players. But with a workaround one player can stand on one button to open a panel above the 2nd switch that they can manually aim with a ranged weapon to drop a boulder onto the 2nd switch, and repeat vice-versa to open the door. That way the player could solo this puzzle easily. If the encounter is designed for 15 then I can see 3-way group splits coming into play. Three teams of 5, coordination via voice com is assumed, so there can be encounters much like Triple Trouble where you have a small window to kill the boss at the same time to complete it. I can also see encounters where 1 of the bosses is harder than the other 2, where the best 5 players in the raid need to tackle the most difficult boss while the other 2 teams may be busy somehow helping make the fight easier for them, via disabling boss mechanics, removing adds, buffing the 5 players, maybe weaken the main boss by killing the bosses 2 underlings, or activating traps. Raid encounters like this should sometimes focus on key players skill, assuming all 15 players in the raid are going to be exceptional is not a well thought out idea. There are always going to be all-stars and lesser-skilled players in a group. Make both of them feel equally as important and provide them roles that create a nice symbiosis to completing the encounter. Teq has something like this were players need to be on turrets, defend, and damage Teq, the fight really isn’t possible without everyone doing their part in some way.

Another idea. Players play their class because it feels right to them, and the class they play has utility that other classes can’t provide. AFAIK 6 classes can reflect in either a line or a circle AoE, that is a majority of the classes, so designing an encounter that required some form of projectile reflect/destroy uptime should be easy to maintain even with a low number of players. Focus on class strengths and design encounters around them, Thief and Warrior are super mobile, maybe design some ‘puzzle’ where you need to stealth and sprint? Or one or the other, not too many classes can compete in a footrace with a Thief or Warrior. Mesmer can port like 10,000 range? Maybe utilize the Mesmer to have a port ready for everyone in the raid to escape a massive 1-shot telegraph from the boss. Guardian has good stability and block uptime. Maybe design something where you need 2 dodge twice + 1 block? I think it’s a good idea to have to use their class utility no matter what. I would not design an encounter that needs all 8 classes at once, this goes against being able to low-man the raids. I think a good idea is to have encounters where maybe 1 or 2 classes are absolutely needed to complete, anything more than that and I can see issues arising, like not being able to find enough players to fit that role. Class specific encounters could also fall into side-objectives in the instance, maybe if players want some extra loot they could tackle these if they had time.

A little Self Q & A how I think about Raids:

Q: How should Raids functionize?
A:
Raids should come with several different “Versions”. There should be the following types of Raid Content:
- Heroic Fractals > designed for 5 persons – Instanced Small Scale Raid
- Battlegrounds > designed for up to 150 persons – Instanced Large Scale Raid
- Dungeon Crawlers > designed for maximum 15 persons – Instanced Mid Scale Raid
- Guild Crusades > designed for various amount of People – Instanced Various Scaling Raid
- Hunting Reservoirs > designed for Solo to 5 People – Instanced Small Scale Raid

Among these 5 types should be somethign among them, that fits everyones taste, so that no kind of group and playstyle gets left out. Everything is instanced, so Raids won’t disturb anyone.

Q: How do we get access to Raids?
A:
The various types of Raids will get accessed as followed:

Heroic Fractals > To gain Access to these new Fractals one has to unlock first a new Fractal Explorer Rank-Progression and Reach FE-Rank 10 of 1000.
Gaining Fractal Explorer Ranks iwll let players progress in general in regard of everything that has to do with Fractals.
Increasing Fractal Explorer Rank will come from various sources:

• Completing a Fractal, gain more Fractal Explorer Rank Points in regard of the Fractal Level or how effectively you raid in the Heroic Fractals later.
• Consuming Luck Essences with a new Crafting Recipe to turn them into Fractal Spheres. Turn enough Fractal Spheres in to unlock new “Fractal Fragments” which can be used to create for your Home Instance a “Fractal Mirror” and a “Fractal Sphereboard” to have Access to Fractals from your Home Instance and having access with the Sphereboard Item to a new Activity “Sphere Chess”
  By playing this Activity you can unlock through the Achievements an Item, that lets you review from your Home Instance all past Living Story Sequences and already seen Vistas by changing there into “Theatre Mode”.
  You want to review again the Scene of Scarlet invading Lions Arch or the Vision of the Avatar of the Pale Tree after the Shadow o the Dragon attacked?
  No Problem, go to your home and use your “Vision Stone” to change into Theatre Mode there to review whatever you want to see again.

Battlegrounds > To unlock the access to Battlegrounds, one has to have played through the Personal Story and has to have reached the WvW Rank of Legend at least.

Dungeon Crawlers to unlock the Access to them, you have to have played through the Game and for each DungeonCrawler of the Game you have to reach a Dungeoneer Rank of the current 8 Dungeons of Rank 10 of 1000.
Progressing in the Dungeoneer Rank will also help you in other ways also, like increasing the Dungeon Tokens you gain from Champ Bags/Daily Runs or unlocking more new rewards for Tokens like more Dungeon Weapon/Armor Sets or Ascended Quality, Minipets , Backitems, Accessoires and so on or new unique Runes and Sigils.

Guild Crusades > Getting access to that, a Guild has to have unlocked also Guild Missions. Doing Guild Missions, a Guild will gain “Reputation”.
Once the Guild has reached a certain Reputation Grade, they will be able to get a Guild Hall. Inside the Guild Hall, you will find then 3 NPCs.
1 of each Order – Vigil, Priory and Whispers. Talking with them will enable you as a Guild Officer to start from there then various types of Guild Crusades based on which Order NPC you have spoken with.
Players solo or as little group will be able to start from these 3 NPCs personal “Order Missions” which will work as some kind of Solo to Small Scale Raids.

Hunting Reservoirs > to get access to a Hunting Reservoir, players will have to pay just NPCs a fee of Gold and Karma to get access to these special types if instances which will work like the Edge of the Mist (Overflow), where players can hunt and raid until their fingers bleed due to endless respawning prey. players will just find Ranger NPCs in various Maps that will let you into the instances when you talk with them and pay them said Gold and Karma to get inside.

So far my thoughts about, what I would like to see of Raid types in GW2, how we should get access to them and how those Raid Types should also help to improve some existign game content by enhancing the games horizontal character progression letting some existing content feel more rewarding over time also too by givign us access to new rewards, which should give players an incentive to keep on playing also the older content and doing also somethign else, than only 24/7 instanced raids naturally.

Next post will be about Raid Rewards I think should be appropiate for a feature like this.

Let me start by saying I do not like “raid” content like WoW and Rift have and will never participate in them. I do have a suggestion though.

Unlike the fractals which introduced some gear grind and power creep, I believe raid rewards should be purely cosmetic. Should they be the coolest, most bad-* gear in the game? Probably… I just don’t want gear introduced that makes you feel like you HAVE to take part in this activity in order to have the best in slot items.

I know many of you will disagree and that’s fine. I also realize that all PvE activities can be performed with rares or exotics equipped, but this kind of gear progression leads to players with the gear finding the game to be progressively easier and asking for the difficulty to be raised.

I remember just a little power creep in GW1 leading to mob tweaks and lots of hair pulling (on my part) until it was dialed back down and hard mode introduced.

BilboBaggins.5620:

Let me start by saying I do not like “raid” content like WoW and Rift have and will never participate in them. I do have a suggestion though.

Unlike the fractals which introduced some gear grind and power creep, I believe raid rewards should be purely cosmetic. Should they be the coolest, most bad-* gear in the game? Probably… I just don’t want gear introduced that makes you feel like you HAVE to take part in this activity in order to have the best in slot items.

I know many of you will disagree and that’s fine. I also realize that all PvE activities can be performed with rares or exotics equipped, but this kind of gear progression leads to players with the gear finding the game to be progressively easier and asking for the difficulty to be raised.

I remember just a little power creep in GW1 leading to mob tweaks and lots of hair pulling (on my part) until it was dialed back down and hard mode introduced.

Pretty sure most are against the power creep, gear treadmill thing, and want to keep the raid a GW2 style raid (whatever that might be, we are formulating it as we discuss really)

Just chiming in to state that I really like the idea of guild raids being similar to how large guilds can start events like Tequatl and Triple Wurm, but bringing back content like the Tower of Nightmares or the Marionette.

Hoping that this helps, here’s another thing I hate about raids in other games;

Spawn camping bosses! Large guilds swarm through the mobs to the boss spawn and just continue to farm it making it difficult/impossible for others to actually participate in the content. Maybe this has already been fixed in those other games, I don’t know since I gave up on them a long time ago.