Camera Smoothing

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Posted by: JonPeters.5630

JonPeters.5630

Game Design Lead

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Guild Wars 2 has some camera smoothing built into it. It is generally more intrusive than it needs to be, but it also has a bug with it that makes it feel really bad for people with specific mouse look styles, like mine. This bug, and reducing the amount of smoothing is being actively looked at, but must be done carefully and tested carefully as its impact will effect every single player. Thanks for your patience.

Jon

p.s. These are not the only camera issues, but are far and away the most egregious so we will address them first.

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Posted by: Rizzy.8293

Rizzy.8293

You mean like how sometimes when you back up into a wall the camera starts jerking back and forth?

I hate when that happens :\

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Posted by: Ang.2157

Ang.2157

The camera in GW2 feels very floating and unresponsive. It also acts as if it was a physical object in the game world for some reason thus causing it to get stuck and zoom in and out every now and then.

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Posted by: Lewzephyr.5281

Lewzephyr.5281

May i suggest Sticky this. As you know this is one of the more repeated threads.

Thanks.

Putting the laughter back into Slaughter!!!!!

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Posted by: Ang.2157

Ang.2157

By the way, speaking of camera issues…

Are you planning to implement a Field of View option and allow further camera zoom?

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Posted by: Untouch.2541

Untouch.2541

Thanks, this was really irritating during beta.

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Posted by: Caedmon.6798

Caedmon.6798

A good mouse makes all the difference,with a razer naga setting it to 2000dpi and 1000pollingrate and adjusting the ingame mouse speed a bit ( lowering it actually ) makes the game/camera feel very smooth.If you adjust the mouse smoothing,Please make a slider in the options menu for us to set the sensitivity or an option to enable/disable it all together.As of now,i think the mouse feels very comfortable and reacts fine to movements.

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Posted by: Ang.2157

Ang.2157

@Caedmon.6798

I do use a razer naga and it is the worst mouse i have ever owned. Their software wont even detect that i have it plugged in after several software updates and different driver versions.

Try to quickly turn your camera ingame and release it, then you will notice that it continue to move instead of stopping instantly.

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Posted by: Caedmon.6798

Caedmon.6798

Well,thats your problem,a mobo problem most likely.Dont be so quick to judge buddy,your mobo has a problem with recognizing the mouse.Btw,i know what mouse smoothing does,you dont have to explain it to me,and ive turned my mouse quite often in gw2 already to know what it feels like.And like i said…Setting my dpi to 2000 and my pollingrate to 1000 made my mouse reaction smoother overall and feels much better.

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Posted by: ulukaiulukai.2584

ulukaiulukai.2584

The camera’s position seems to be odd as well. Most of the time I can only see the back of my character, but not much of the beautifully designed world.

I always have to move the camera “to the ground” to be able to see large buildings properly. Thus, I often miss interesting structures while walking through a zone, EVEN THOUGH (or because?) they are really big.

It’s annoying and not that bad in other 3rd person games.

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Posted by: Mekboss.5069

Mekboss.5069

Will field of view also be addressed?

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Posted by: Lozera.8651

Lozera.8651

I would like to see a first person view, as in a view in which you can see the world though your chars eyes and not see the char model at all.

While it doesn’t sound useful for a mmo but it’s vital for taking scenic pictures.
I feel sad whenever I see a really scenic area and I can’t get a good shot of it because my char is in the way.

Either a first person, or a free floating camera for screenshots, would work out well. I’d imagine the first person view could also fix some issues with jumping puzzles and tall chars.

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Posted by: Eskali.1380

Eskali.1380

Lozera, use the /sleep emote, helps a lot for good clear pictures.

Don’t take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway.

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Posted by: Spider.3486

Spider.3486

As far as the camera goes im not fully sure what the issue is, i personally havent felt any issues apart from:
Missing huge landscapes and buildings due to camera placement, and not being able to take amazing screenies free from my character.

Ah well, hope whatever the issue is gets fixed

Will try the /sleep from now on thanks Eskali!

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Posted by: TurtleofPower.5641

TurtleofPower.5641

Could we please get a camera (center of) height adjustment when you guys have time as well? For norns, things get kind of hairy. Sometimes we’re blotting out our own gameplay such as jumping puzzles and so forth.

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Posted by: Katulobotomia.7863

Katulobotomia.7863

Also add a FOV slider please! I can’t play GW2 for too long before feeling dizzy and have to take a break just to get the headache away.

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Posted by: Knote.2904

Knote.2904

Is it possible for race camera distances to be matched?

I feel claustrophobic on my Asura sometimes, and the tiny camera distance prevents me from seeing most of the world.

10-15% more zoom out would make a massive difference. Really hope you guys consider.

(edited by Knote.2904)

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Posted by: Droppingloads.3679

Droppingloads.3679

Please fix the horrible camera I’m sick of fighting monster shins cause u can’t zoom out far enuff, I still haven’t seen any of the beautiful zones since the camera bounces off the floor and zooms into my shoulder, its a pain to even defend a node in pvp I usually know the enemy is there because I’ve been attcked since u can’t span the horizon in first person or zoom out without the camera bounicng off the ground or object ad zooming completely in. The centering needs to be higher aswell small toons especially have a hard time with camera issues.

I love the game I hate the camera I am suprised it even made it like this into the final product and release. Just a horrible experience so far using It. If it wasn’t for vistas I would only know I’m in a new zone cause the ground color changed since all I see is dirt.

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Posted by: Kain Francois.4328

Kain Francois.4328

So I’m the only one without camera problems?

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Posted by: kgptzac.8419

kgptzac.8419

GW2 has a tons of camera related issue. The top one off my head right now is how “push close by obstacle” design. It makes me (and many others) nauseous in jumping puzzles, where the camera would be pulled in and pushed out in a very undesirable fashion, which is the number one reason preventing me having fun in these puzzles. I can see why “no clip” camera would be somewhat problematic (though it can be solved in other ways) in pvp, but in known locations that have jumping puzzle, please introduce a way to make camera movement sensible so it doesn’t hinders the players’ ability to face the real challenge that the puzzles are designed for.

a shard of crystal in the desert.

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Posted by: Tlu.4269

Tlu.4269

I tend to change my video settings quite a bit; I’m always moving between the Auto Detect setting and All Performance setting. One thing I’ve noticed, in relation to the camera movement (and even mouse movement) is that it seems to be based on your FPS.

I’m not a huge PC gamer, but is this normal for PC games? I find it very frustrating that whenever five elementallists decide to throw everything they have, my framerate drops and I can’t move my mouse or turn my screen.

Also, when I’m at full performance settings, I get about 60FPS; Auto Detect settings is 30FPS. When I switch between these two, my mouse is noticeably slower. It feels like I just yanked down my DPI or something.

I’m not complaining about low FPS, so don’t bark at me for that. I’m just wondering why when my FPS goes down, my mouse sensitivity drops as well.

And that is a scientific fact!

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Posted by: Uman.6150

Uman.6150

Speaking of camera, have you considered bringing back the first person camera from the first game ?

It wasn’t fancy, but it allowed us to take screenshot of landscape (without the char), and we could also look “up” really easily (it’s not possible right now, and that’s a bit frustrating not to be able to see the whole building from close).

Doing it would also make it easier in some jumping challenge, (my char oftenly get hidden by some vegetation / wall and I have to guess where the next platform is).

Anyway, thanks for reading and for making this game.

(edited by Uman.6150)

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Posted by: Daddy Taco.6391

Daddy Taco.6391

Sooooo… will you let us zoom out further yet?

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Posted by: Zyrusticae.7245

Zyrusticae.7245

By the way, speaking of camera issues…

Are you planning to implement a Field of View option and allow further camera zoom?

THIS PLEASE.

The default field of view is completely terrible. 60-degrees is something I expect from a console game, not a native PC game! Not only does it induce motion sickness in several players (especially those who game with large screens that are close to their faces), but it makes the game itself look bad, with screenshots being heavily compromised by the terrible FoV.

Please add a FoV option or at least change the FoV to a default of 90-degrees horizontal (at a minimum!).

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Posted by: Kintari.4172

Kintari.4172

The reason the camera feels sluggish and unresponsive is primarily because it uses 3D position interpolation, not ‘mouse smoothing’ per se.

What this means is that the client calculates where the camera is ‘supposed to be’ based on user input, and then the camera moves to that spot over some (short but perceivable) interval of time, usually less than a second, but more than a single rendered frame. This is the behavior that people refer to when they say the camera ‘floats’.

This results in the camera always feeling ‘a little bit behind’ because it is in fact behind. It is always playing catch-up to where the user really wants it to be, except of course when the user is not sending input.

Other games feel more responsive because they do not do this interpolation, but rather calculate where the camera should be, and simply place it there, subject to collision restrictions, which is something the GW2 camera handles horribly, but a mostly separate topic.

There is a time and place for cameras that rubber-band like this, but for a game like GW2 (and I would argue MMOs in general), responsiveness is key, and adding in any kind of interpolation ruins the feeling of responsiveness.

The best way to do camera control for a game like this is to maintain the camera offset from character position in 3D polar coordinates i.e. pitch, yaw, and distance; use these to compute camera world space position every frame, and then perform collision checks on the result and adjust accordingly such that the camera doesn’t clip through the environment. The only interpolation that is OK in this case is interpolation along the vector connecting the camera position with the player position, i.e. animating the distance to/from the player. Everything else will make it feel sluggish.

If you guys (ANet) continue to use a solution that has interpolation built in, I strongly urge you to (1) offer a slider to control the speed of interpolation, giving a higher maximum speed than what is in place currently, and (2) change the interpolation to use an arc around the character rather than linearly interpolating between ‘camera position right now’ and ‘camera destination position’. Using an arc avoids some of the more disconcerting behaviors associated with interpolation, such as swinging in close to the character and then back out during quick turns. All that being said, removing the interpolation entirely is still the best approach.

TL;DR: interpolating camera 3D position bad and makes for laggy feel, don’t do it mmmkay

Kintari | Rintaki | Rin Taki | Kian Tir | Zahinn | Lith <<< Blackgate >>>

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Posted by: Intigo.1653

Intigo.1653

Make it an option. Allow us to decide these things. Options are good, we like options.

80 Asura Elementalist – [Red Guard]
http://www.youtube.com/user/IntigoGW2

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Posted by: Corian.4068

Corian.4068

Aion had a console command to change FoV, and once I found out about that I could no longer play with the default, the improvement was so big.

So would definitely approve of an option to change FoV, even if it was just between two presets (60 and 90).

Hit level eighty
Priorities, what to do?
Spend hours with dye

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Posted by: SeanPoez.8407

SeanPoez.8407

Thank you Jon Peters for this wonderful announcement. I’m sure you’ve probably seen this thread already (as it has existed in one form or another since the first beta weekend), but for anyone else interested, I’ve created a camera-issue compilation thread in the suggestion forums (found here). I’m quite sure it contains all of the problems/bugs involving the camera currently. If anyone would like to contribute any additional ideas, please feel free to do so and I’ll add them to the list.

(edited by SeanPoez.8407)

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Posted by: Kintari.4172

Kintari.4172

Instead of testing for a week you could put an option “use experimental camera” in the menu and collect feedback and bug reports from us, the players.

But thank you for finally addressing the issue, I thought it was never coming.

Seconded, this is probably my #1 issue overall, and it’s good to hear it is being looked at.

Kintari | Rintaki | Rin Taki | Kian Tir | Zahinn | Lith <<< Blackgate >>>

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Posted by: RESISTOR.4587

RESISTOR.4587

I’m really glad that the camera is being looked at, I would LOVE the option to disable camera smoothing and increase the FOV. Those two things are really the only issues I have with the gamer, otherwise it’s quite amazing.

:)

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Posted by: Grim.3487

Grim.3487

Dear Arenanet please make the camera smoothing an option, I find the camera way too unresponsive. I use the mouse right click camera movement exclusively for looking around, and it feels very sluggish.

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Posted by: Baxuz.1943

Baxuz.1943

Thank you Jon for the awesome news.
Would you consider making an option to completely remove mouse smoothing?

Camera control issues – a documented list
No longer blowing up stuff up on Gandara [CM] :(

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Posted by: Oxe.6142

Oxe.6142

Fix the camera zoom (out and in, all the way to first person and let me zoom out to see the land, at least 2x as far as current, 4x preferable) and mouse button camera controls also. Add a sticky target option so clicking on the game world doesn’t deselect your target and remove attack from right mouse button. I’m currently not playing GW2 because I’m fed up with these controls specifically. I’ll check back when they’ve been fixed.

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Posted by: gurugeorge.9857

gurugeorge.9857

Smoothing in games is generally horrible, and a sign of console-y intentions. I’d be happy for it to be turn-off-able completely and the mouse be exactly where you place it at all times (hence also steering precisely). That said, I’ve been living with it in GW2 and it’s not as bad as it’s been in some games. But it still needs to be optional.

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Posted by: Hickeroar.9734

Hickeroar.9734

I would LOVE a nice little checkbox in the settings that says “Disable Mouse Smoothing” next to it. It’s been a long time since I’ve played a game WITHOUT this option.

Instead of investigating options for reducing the amount of smoothing, etc, you guys (ANet) just need to add that checkbox, and maybe a little slider to adjust the amount of smoothing when it IS enabled.

You should also default the smoothing to OFF, not ON. Smoothing is universally horrible and lag inducing in EVERY game I’ve played.

(edited by Hickeroar.9734)

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Posted by: Cazder.7354

Cazder.7354

While it doesn’t bother me as much, I know a player who is aggravated to no end about smoothing to the point it is “game breaking.” I realize there are complexities with any change but it seems to me that the obvious “fix” is to set a toggle for “on/off” and let the players pick.

Another personal aggravation is not being able to zoom into first person (no not to play but sometimes it’s nice to see the world/take screenshots without your avatar in the way.)

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Posted by: Greenbuddhas.4508

Greenbuddhas.4508

yes! please fix this issue. its very annoying, especially because im a caster and i do lots of moving and rolling and the camera responds terribly to my movements. I’ve also noticed it gets stuck on certain objects or trees and zooms in super close. if you guys could implement the below things this game would be 10/10 in my book:

- increase the amount that you can zoom in/out and fix the camera sticking on objects issue.
- increase the view distance that you can see objects and npcs alike (ive noticed certain players you can see far away and there’s others you can’t see)
- LOWER the respawn rate and implement scaling to how many players are in a area at a time. you guys promised us this! its getting ridiculous!

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Posted by: QSatu.1586

QSatu.1586

Why is this even in the game? I thought mouse smoothing was only in crappy console ports. ANet as always tries to improve something which isn’t broken.

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Posted by: Jonnyguitar.1684

Jonnyguitar.1684

I’m guessing its because they wanted people to be able to play this on controllers.

Otherwise i have no idea why they would implement smoothing, because like others have said, its pretty horrible in anything its ever been put in.

Hate to say it, but WoW’s camera was perfect, there was no reason to not make an exact copy of that.

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Posted by: Hickeroar.9734

Hickeroar.9734

Hate to say it, but WoW’s camera was perfect, there was no reason to not make an exact copy of that.

Yeah, it was pretty good. Very solid and responsive. Big zoom-out too.

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Posted by: Vuh.1328

Vuh.1328

Give an option to turn off the camera smoothening. It’s horrible in pretty much any game!
Especially for PvP..
Even better RAW input option

Take your time to learn proper keybinding, it’s worth the struggle

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Posted by: Broodix.6053

Broodix.6053

Just give us an option to turn the darn thing on or off. This is a game released in 2012 made specifically for the PC platform for crying out loud. If companies like Gearbox can come up with a decent console port of their game and include standard PC-specific options like an FoV slider AND mouse smoothing turned off by default, then I start to question why stuff like this wasn’t included at launch to begin with.

(edited by Broodix.6053)

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Posted by: merlinr.6581

merlinr.6581

Hate to say it, but WoW’s camera was perfect, there was no reason to not make an exact copy of that.

Yeah, it was pretty good. Very solid and responsive. Big zoom-out too.

I agree and I’m glad they are looking into it. If they could give an option for the camera to be as responsive as WoW, that would be great. I’m not sure if smoothing is what makes it feel sluggish.

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Posted by: Apotheosize.4293

Apotheosize.4293

I really hope this addresses all the camera and mouse issues issues present in the game. A great thread to see whats wrong is here

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Camera-control-issues-a-documented-list/first#post4411

Smoothing is a problem yes, but thats only the tip of the ice berg for GW2 camera and mouse control issues. Inertia, FoV, no first person mode, and not being able to zoom in/out when moving the camera all need to be looked at and hopefully changed.

In a game like GW2, precise, 1:1 control of your camera and mouse is paramount. It is the single one thing the player is constantly interacting with, and its a truly counter to a good game to have it be so incredibly unresponsive and hard to use.

(edited by Apotheosize.4293)

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Posted by: vann.4297

vann.4297

Arenanet ,should just get a copy of TERA . and learn how they do it right! They have amazing camera controls and cinematic style close shots too.. You can nearly play as if was first person game. And while you are there analyze their combat system too.. wouldn’t hurt either if you learn something there.

(edited by vann.4297)

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Posted by: ashsmith.8976

ashsmith.8976

The smoothness of the camara is why most of my friends think this game feels sluggish and have all moved back to wow , fix this asap as feeling smooth makes or breaks most mmos even for me , even swtor had it right.

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Posted by: Halo.1064

Halo.1064

Ditto on this being a problem, and ditto on being really irritated by the FOV at times. I feel like I’m trapped inside a car, craning my head to see the amazing sights around me through the windshield.

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Posted by: Backward Sass.6791

Backward Sass.6791

Can we get an option to turn off Camera Smoothing?

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Posted by: Undeadsee.2745

Undeadsee.2745

If the camera smoothing is removed I will be a very happy camper & lose even more hours into this game
Being able to play for more than 40mins without feeling sick / getting frustrated would be just awesome.

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Posted by: Smackjack.5071

Smackjack.5071

FOV
FOV!
FOV!!
FOV!!!

Please fix the FOV