Guild Wars 2

Ascended gear is NOT stat progression, the stat change is neglidgable. It exists to give the ILLUSION of stat progression. ANET had a dilemma, on 1 hand they had promised a non grindy game, on the other hand a large portion of their playerbase WANTED a long term grind for gear. What they did was actually very clever, they added a new tier of gear to satisfy the demand, but made the improvement so minimal that unless 2 identical classes using identical builds dodging identical attacks fought, it would not be better than ascended.

Tl;dr The only vertical progression on ascended gear is the infusion slots, look at the stats and see for yourself.

People will continue to complain regardless. Doesn’t matter if they know others to be greatly successful with only exotics to their name. Best way is to follow what Anet stance on this, stay silent and let them cry about Anet not responding to their cries. In reality no matter your reasoning, it just comes down to what they don’t want to do.

It must be Tuesday…

1+1= a window, at least that’s what 20% of people think, the other 90% disagree.

X + 0.1% * X > X. If you think that the 0.1 is something you don’t need, then that’s your business.

Such a hilarious argument. Anyone in ascended is automatically less skilled than anyone in exotic so it balances out? Are you serious? Do you really expect me to believe than an overall statistical performance boost of 12-13% can be utterly disregarded? Not to mention that skill cannot be measured so we can only measure the performance of a class/build by assuming it’s being played to its maximum potential, which is obviously higher with ascended than without.

What I’m saying if that if your build is better than/or perfectly suited to defeating another build, then you’re going to win. If you have more people you’re going to win. If you have less lag you’re going to win. If you have more sleep so you have better reflexes due to lack of fatigue you’re going to win.

Stats, in and of themselves, only become meaningful when all things are equal, but all things are never equal in WvW. People have different computers, processors and internet connections. People have different levels of personal skill.

If the guy you’re fighting and dodge and interrupt all your big attacks, then having ascended armor won’t help you at all. If he knows when to throw down a wall of reflect and use condition removal and if he has a plan, then he’s going to trump you if his build is suited to that.

WvW was never meant to be balanced for 1v1. Anet has said this so many times it’s barely hard to believe that people can just keep ignoring it.

If they keep their focus on open-world ‘zerg-based’ content, and if they keep dungeons as ‘accessible’ as they are, I see no reason why the vertical progression won’t continue. At this point that’s my main concern.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Infusion slots: Only Ascended gear has infusion slots.

Um… Need I remind you about Legendary Gear? They would be kitten poor ultimate weapons if they did not in fact have the same or better stats as the visually less stunning ascended gear, don’t ya think?

To that end, both Ascended and Legendary gear have Infusion Slots. As such Ascended Gear is not the only gear that have Infusion Slots.

let see.

A full ascended character meeting a full exotic will deal 5% more dps.

BUT

Will also have 5% more armor.

On top of that can use infusions to get 70 <=== more attributes

The ascended defenders accidentally forget so many stats in order to make seems its not an entire new tier.

The difference is substantial and can decide the winner in any balanced fight

The best part is before ascended people was saying you could also play in Yellow…

You can see how the trendmill is moving….

LordByron.8369:

let’s see.

A full ascended character meeting a full exotic will deal 5% more dps.

BUT

Will also have 5% more armor. On top of that they can use infusions to get 70 more attributes. The ascended defenders purposefully forget many stats in order to make it seem as if ascended armor is not an entirely new tier. The difference is substantial and can decide the winner in any balanced fight. The best part is that before ascended people were saying you could also play in Yellows…

You can see how the treadmill is moving….

fixed your post for grammar and spelling. God that was awful. And I am not normally a grammar kitten of any sort.

But yes, many of the things you mentioned is what distinguishes Ascended and Legendary gear as being a cut above Exotics, and definitely superior to Rares. There is no doubt that someone in fully decked out Ascended Gear who goes head to head against someone else who is decked out only in exotics, that the ascended player is going to win if everything else is equal.

I’ve fought much longer and harder to get 1% improvement in other MMOs. In my experience a 5% jump in anything is kinda… HUGE.

Nike.2631:

I’ve fought much longer and harder to get 1% improvement in other MMOs. In my experience a 5% jump in anything is kinda… HUGE.

It’s a lot easier to disregard based on the context: content designed for “people in rares”, and content designed for a screen full of players. Of course, that’s also not to say it’s a strictly positive situation.

Vayne.8563:

What I’m saying if that if your build is better than/or perfectly suited to defeating another build, then you’re going to win. If you have more people you’re going to win. If you have less lag you’re going to win. If you have more sleep so you have better reflexes due to lack of fatigue you’re going to win.

A better build/build matchup makes you more likely to win.
Having more people makes you more likely to win.
Having less lag makes you more likely to win.
Having better concentration makes you more likely to win.

None of those things can guarantee a win. All of them influence the outcome but no single factor can decide it. You know what can make a build better? A 12-13% overall statistical performance increase. If a fight is 8v8 and your entire team has ascended while the enemy’s entire team doesn’t, you have the equivalent of one more person, without the logistical needs of another person.

Stats always matter. There’s a reason why we spend so much time min-maxing our builds. Anything that makes you stronger is an advantage. Any advantage improves your capability to win. A good player can pull a win out of even the slightest advantage. If your opponent has even one more piece of ascended across their whole team than you, you are at a disadvantage.

Coldtart.4785:

Vayne.8563:

What I’m saying if that if your build is better than/or perfectly suited to defeating another build, then you’re going to win. If you have more people you’re going to win. If you have less lag you’re going to win. If you have more sleep so you have better reflexes due to lack of fatigue you’re going to win.

A better build/build matchup makes you more likely to win.
Having more people makes you more likely to win.
Having less lag makes you more likely to win.
Having better concentration makes you more likely to win.

None of those things can guarantee a win. All of them influence the outcome but no single factor can decide it. You know what can make a build better? A 12-13% overall statistical performance increase. If a fight is 8v8 and your entire team has ascended while the enemy’s entire team doesn’t, you have the equivalent of one more person, without the logistical needs of another person.

Stats always matter. There’s a reason why we spend so much time min-maxing our builds. Anything that makes you stronger is an advantage. Any advantage improves your capability to win. A good player can pull a win out of even the slightest advantage. If your opponent has even one more piece of ascended across their whole team than you, you are at a disadvantage.

Stats matter more in most games than this one though. Not saying they don’t matter at all. I’m saying that don’t matter as much as people make them out to.

In most games, your dodge is a stat, not something you do. So in most games you need dodge stat to avoid damage. Here you’re far more in control when it comes to avoiding damage, giving people good at a huge advantage.

When everyone is equal at that, stats will matter a lot more.

If the Ascended armor and weapon skins looked more visually appealing, people would accept them for being highly-desirable skins with almost negligible stat increases rather than “meh” skins with a focus on stat increases lol.

Vayne.8563:

Of course people are going to say that it gives an advantage to others. That’s how they excuse the fact that they aren’t that good. It’s much easier to blame their failures on ascended gear than on lack of skill.

Err.

Wild and crazy theory incoming: maybe people say that it gives people an advantage because it gives people an advantage. It’s right there in the tooltip, it has bigger numbers than Exotic gear. While second-guessing people’s motives is fun, I think you might be setting yourself up a little by second-guessing people’s motives when they’re using basic arithmetic.

Oo
Still amazed how people can say an increase is not an increase because they decided so…

Want to see people start shouting? Let PVP players use ascended. That would be lots of laughs for me.

BeoErgon.9107:

Oo
Still amazed how people can say an increase is not an increase because they decided so…

Want to see people start shouting? Let PVP players use ascended. That would be lots of laughs for me.

wouldn’t it just be the ascended skins, and not the ascended stats that PvP players get?

And… strictly speaking World Vs. World is technically a type of Player vs. Player by most conventional definitions. So strictly speaking they already can use Ascended gear while participating in PvP, it just has to be of the World vs. World sort of PvP.

Name in use already.7294:

Ascended gear is NOT stat progression, the stat change is neglidgable. It exists to give the ILLUSION of stat progression. ANET had a dilemma, on 1 hand they had promised a non grindy game, on the other hand a large portion of their playerbase WANTED a long term grind for gear. What they did was actually very clever, they added a new tier of gear to satisfy the demand, but made the improvement so minimal that unless 2 identical classes using identical builds dodging identical attacks fought, it would not be better than ascended.

Tl;dr The only vertical progression on ascended gear is the infusion slots, look at the stats and see for yourself.

the problem is not why anet did it.
the problem is they did it.
and definitely yes…we don t want to do anything to get ascended

if the stats progression is negligible, it s your opinion. and respect it.
still, maths is the same. and say there s a difference.

An Siorai Tharian.4516:

BeoErgon.9107:

Oo
Still amazed how people can say an increase is not an increase because they decided so…

Want to see people start shouting? Let PVP players use ascended. That would be lots of laughs for me.

wouldn’t it just be the ascended skins, and not the ascended stats that PvP players get?

And… strictly speaking World Vs. World is technically a type of Player vs. Player by most conventional definitions. So strictly speaking they already can use Ascended gear while participating in PvP, it just has to be of the World vs. World sort of PvP.

No, I am talking abotu letting PVP use the real ascended gear with the ascended stats. Since everybody is claiming that ascended stats makes no difference why not?
I am sure I would love to sit and watch the reactions of the PVP crowd.

And yes, I know WvW is a sort of PVP, but people tend to ignore this. The fact that yo ucan use ascended in it seems to bother none of the ’increase in stats is nothing" crowd.

Kevan.8912:

still, maths is the same. and say there s a difference.

Okay. That’s it. Why does everyone I see on the Internet use the term Maths when referring to Mathematics… instead of the singular term Math? Why does Math need to be plural all the time? It is darned frustrating! Even Math Teachers are confused by it.

An Siorai Tharian.4516:

Kevan.8912:

still, maths is the same. and say there s a difference.

Okay. That’s it. Why does everyone I see on the Internet use the term Maths when referring to Mathematics… instead of the singular term Math? Why does Math need to be plural all the time? It is darned frustrating! Even Math Teachers are confused by it.

my fault. as in sign, problems with grammar
still, the meaning of the post is obvious.

Kevan.8912:

An Siorai Tharian.4516:

Kevan.8912:

still, maths is the same. and say there s a difference.

Okay. That’s it. Why does everyone I see on the Internet use the term Maths when referring to Mathematics… instead of the singular term Math? Why does Math need to be plural all the time? It is darned frustrating! Even Math Teachers are confused by it.

my fault. as in sign, problems with grammar
still, the meaning of the post is obvious.

it’s hardly your fault. It’s not just you. Everyone does it. It is much more common in countries controlled by Britain, but it is beginning to catch on in the United States as well. The problem is that it isn’t grammatically correct. Or at least it isn’t anymore grammatically correct than saying Mathematic instead of Mathematics…

Sarrs.4831:

Wild and crazy theory incoming: maybe people say that it gives people an advantage because it gives people an advantage. It’s right there in the tooltip, it has bigger numbers than Exotic gear. While second-guessing people’s motives is fun, I think you might be setting yourself up a little by second-guessing people’s motives when they’re using basic arithmetic.

+1.
demonstrating or not that this stat increase make the difference…is not crucial.
it’s just an opinion if it’s mandatory or not.or if it’s substantial or not.
what matters for ppl is that this difference in stats exist.

Keiel.7489:

People will continue to complain regardless. Doesn’t matter if they know others to be greatly successful with only exotics to their name. Best way is to follow what Anet stance on this, stay silent and let them cry about Anet not responding to their cries. In reality no matter your reasoning, it just comes down to what they don’t want to do.

and yes again.
i’m sure that anet won’t ever stop gear progression because of our cry.
it would only happen because of decrease of server population.
(that is what we’re hoping in)

yep people are gonna cry about it and anet isn’t going to do anything about it. And you know why? Because the petulant people throwing a fit over ascended armor, once removed, in about 30 seconds will start crying over something else… so what’s the point in fixing something if all the complainers are going to do is find something else to complain about?

Coldtart.4785:

Such a hilarious argument. Anyone in ascended is automatically less skilled than anyone in exotic so it balances out? Are you serious? Do you really expect me to believe than an overall statistical performance boost of 12-13% can be utterly disregarded? Not to mention that skill cannot be measured so we can only measure the performance of a class/build by assuming it’s being played to its maximum potential, which is obviously higher with ascended than without.

Exactly. That’s the mentality of GW2 players.
Anet, you had finally pull the right crowd.
Thank goodness i’m not in it

I just don’t understand why they didn’t release new super hard to acquire but beautiful armor skins and call it horizontal progression. That’s how GW worked (I know, a different game) but everyone was pretty keen on working for new armor skins without any stat gains for years, so long as they looked good.

Ascended kinda ruined that notion of horizontal progression. To say that it’s not needed is a terrible argument because it exists, some people will have it, some people won’t, and those that have it will be improved from it. Skill is skill, and that’s important. But to think that a person of skill level X will not benefit from a 5% increase in stats is deluding yourself. They’ll still have the same skill level, but have higher stats. I think that’s significant. And while you don’t need Ascended gear to do dungeons, I’m sure it’ll help someone who has trouble with Arah. And I’m sure it’ll help in a small WvW battle.

And lastly, by making Ascended gear so grindy and expensive to acquire reduces build variety and adaptability. 90% of players with Ascended will have only 1 set, which effectively pigeon holes them into playing only builds that that stat set allows.

Magnus Steelgrave.6580:

yep people are gonna cry about it and anet isn’t going to do anything about it. And you know why? Because the petulant people throwing a fit over ascended armor, once removed, in about 30 seconds will start crying over something else… so what’s the point in fixing something if all the complainers are going to do is find something else to complain about?

i don’t think so.
the ascended/gear progression/ grind is not just “something else to complain about”.
it’s the main gold and time-sink in mmos. (as before someone gently said)
one of the main features anet advertised in the past. (ops, they advertised there wouldn’t be that)
and the main hot “complaint” topic in the forum.

yours is just another try to ridiculize others’ opinion to silence anything that could affect the game you already like.
a childish way though.

i think you shouldn’t worry about it.
the reason anet won’t “fix” gw2 is money, and people who love to grind, and a lot of other reasons they obviously look from making us aware of. (money)

Exactly what OP said. 100%

Sure ascended gear gives a small advantage thats undeniable but consider this. First of all its undeniable that the only thing where we can even argue about this is in WvW. In PvE and sPvP I hope we can all agree having it or not makes no difference. (only exception being high level fractals which I dont think fits in this discussion since ascended gear is actually designed for it)

Back to WvW lets go crazy and assume ascended gear has a 20% advantage over (thats more like 2x-4x the actual number but lets go with 20% for the sake of argument since I am sure we can at least agree the advantage isnt larger then 20%) in a skill based game is that such a big deal? how many here in WvW went against much higher odds and won? if you come a cross an group of 5 enemies and you’re just 4 do you think ohh no we’re dead? Plenty of you tube videos of small 5 player groups taking over zergs many times their size even 5 times larger or more and they still win or hold their own.

in most gear based MMOs yeah numbers are everything since everyone is gonna likely be using your same build and know the correct rotation. In Gw2 it is different.

And I am not even going to go over the fact WvW isnt about individual kills which makes said advantage even smaller!

Galen Grey.4709:

Back to WvW lets go crazy and assume ascended gear has a 20% advantage over (thats more like 2x-4x the actual number but lets go with 20% for the sake of argument since I am sure we can at least agree the advantage isnt larger then 20%) in a skill based game is that such a big deal?

Di you like sports?
A 1% unfair advantage would be a huge issue there….
A 10-20% advantage would be untolerable.
Sport is skill based

And I am not even going to go over the fact WvW isnt about individual kills which makes said advantage even smaller!

Actually roaming is a thing….there are also the ruins that are often the battlefield for many duels.

Try to notice how many times you bring your opponent to 10% HP or you survive by a 10%.

But the real fact is that ANY pvp is about duel…even an 1% would be unfair….a 5-10% is not a minor advantage…

If you ask most pvp players is a major one…..

Seras.5702:

I just don’t understand why they didn’t release new super hard to acquire but beautiful armor skins and call it horizontal progression.

That would require them to make beautiful armor skins, which I’m sorry to say aside a few pieces they’ve made in the past year, nothing has been mind blowing good to me, hell some of the good stuff they stuck on town clothes which itself isn’t a good system either.

Anyone who doesn’t think Ascended helps is fooling themselves, every little bit adds up in the end to giving you an advantage, just like food and oils which is why you always see people reminding to eat them in wvw.

Galen Grey.4709:

Exactly what OP said. 100%

Sure ascended gear gives a small advantage thats undeniable but consider this. First of all its undeniable that the only thing where we can even argue about this is in WvW. In PvE and sPvP I hope we can all agree having it or not makes no difference. (only exception being high level fractals which I dont think fits in this discussion since ascended gear is actually designed for it)

See bolded above. It’s undeniable that Ascended gives a stat advantage. Glad you led with that. And if Ascended is designed for a specific aspect of the game, fractals, that means that you must acquire it to be successful. Content gated by grind.

Galen Grey.4709:

Back to WvW lets go crazy and assume ascended gear has a 20% advantage over (thats more like 2x-4x the actual number but lets go with 20% for the sake of argument since I am sure we can at least agree the advantage isnt larger then 20%) in a skill based game is that such a big deal? how many here in WvW went against much higher odds and won? if you come a cross an group of 5 enemies and you’re just 4 do you think ohh no we’re dead? Plenty of you tube videos of small 5 player groups taking over zergs many times their size even 5 times larger or more and they still win or hold their own.

See bolded above. In a skill based game, yes, the stat increase is still a big deal. If they weren’t important, we wouldn’t have them. Go ahead, run WvW in yellows and tell me if you’re not automatically suffering a handicap even before the battle starts. WHy would you want that? Why would you want to start every encounter already at a disadvantage? Now your skill is even more important since you have to overcome that disadvantage. Evenly built, your opponent will have more hp, more toughness, hit harder, have more crit %, and/or heal better.

Galen Grey.4709:

in most gear based MMOs yeah numbers are everything since everyone is gonna likely be using your same build and know the correct rotation. In Gw2 it is different.

And I am not even going to go over the fact WvW isnt about individual kills which makes said advantage even smaller!

Can’t hold a point or lay siege if you can’t stay alive or kill your enemy. No, it’s not team deathmatch. But if you can kill a dolyak faster it’s a good thing right? And if you can flip a supply point quick that’s a good thing right? And explain how all this makes an advantage (which is a fixed number btw) smaller. 5% is 5% and I’ve heard that based on skill scaling, the 5% stats actually increase various abilities much more than just 5%.

LordByron.8369:

Galen Grey.4709:

Back to WvW lets go crazy and assume ascended gear has a 20% advantage over (thats more like 2x-4x the actual number but lets go with 20% for the sake of argument since I am sure we can at least agree the advantage isnt larger then 20%) in a skill based game is that such a big deal?

Di you like sports?
A 1% unfair advantage would be a huge issue there….
A 10-20% advantage would be untolerable.
Sport is skill based

And I am not even going to go over the fact WvW isnt about individual kills which makes said advantage even smaller!

Actually roaming is a thing….there are also the ruins that are often the battlefield for many duels.

Try to notice how many times you bring your opponent to 10% HP or you survive by a 10%.

But the real fact is that ANY pvp is about duel…even an 1% would be unfair….a 5-10% is not a minor advantage…

If you ask most pvp players is a major one…..

you find advantages in sports too over one athlete to another, nature doesnt create us all equal. Build, characteristics, external factors.

quick search uncovered this study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3773666

by taking into account hair / clothing air resistance and shoes it was possible to reduce air resistance by up to 6% !

granted I am not an expert on the subject but I dont believe an racer would be disqualified or accused of cheating if they shaved their hair or wore different types of cloths etc..

same if we look at a sport like say formula 1. Sure there are rules that restrict how wide the divide is but teams arent forced to copy a singular design to ensure every car has the same advantages / disadvantages. With certain guidelines teams are allowed to do their own thing which will ultimately give them an advantage or a disadvantage if they mess it up.

as for roaming .. sure, I concur I am sure there will be times when you win or loose by 10% while having a 10% advantage but these will be offset in the long run by other player 10% wins / losses without having that advantage as well as other engagments.

keep in mind WvW isnt a one on one activity, its a server vs server activity. technically speaking a single player winning or loosing has a very small impact on the actual game. Thus its important to consider this from a global. You might not have an ascended armor set so stand at a 10% disadvantage but over all your server might have more players with ascended armor then the other server. From your point of view you’re at a disadvantage but you’re not fighting alone thus in reality its actually the opposite. This is without even factoring in consumables, siege equipment and strategy all of which shift that advantage around even more!

Seras.5702:

Galen Grey.4709:

Exactly what OP said. 100%

Sure ascended gear gives a small advantage thats undeniable but consider this. First of all its undeniable that the only thing where we can even argue about this is in WvW. In PvE and sPvP I hope we can all agree having it or not makes no difference. (only exception being high level fractals which I dont think fits in this discussion since ascended gear is actually designed for it)

See bolded above. It’s undeniable that Ascended gives a stat advantage. Glad you led with that. And if Ascended is designed for a specific aspect of the game, fractals, that means that you must acquire it to be successful. Content gated by grind.

Thats not true, no content is gated by ascended gear. You can experiance all that fractal offers without having a single ascended piece. its a risk vs reward kinda deal. you invest in ascended gear to earn higher rewards. If all you’re interested in is the gameplay you can ignore ascended gear and still have that.

Seras.5702:

Galen Grey.4709:

Back to WvW lets go crazy and assume ascended gear has a 20% advantage over (thats more like 2x-4x the actual number but lets go with 20% for the sake of argument since I am sure we can at least agree the advantage isnt larger then 20%) in a skill based game is that such a big deal? how many here in WvW went against much higher odds and won? if you come a cross an group of 5 enemies and you’re just 4 do you think ohh no we’re dead? Plenty of you tube videos of small 5 player groups taking over zergs many times their size even 5 times larger or more and they still win or hold their own.

See bolded above. In a skill based game, yes, the stat increase is still a big deal. If they weren’t important, we wouldn’t have them. Go ahead, run WvW in yellows and tell me if you’re not automatically suffering a handicap even before the battle starts. WHy would you want that? Why would you want to start every encounter already at a disadvantage? Now your skill is even more important since you have to overcome that disadvantage. Evenly built, your opponent will have more hp, more toughness, hit harder, have more crit %, and/or heal better.

Actually I played quite a bit of WvW in a mix of rares / masterworks on alts I hadnt full geared up yet. I didnt really feel kitten, I still had quite a good positive kill to death ratio. For science I even tried no armor on at all one early morning and got 7 kills, 2 deaths and even had 2 players run away the moment they saw me. Understandable, I would run away too if someone in their underwear came running at me Like I said in the opening statement, not denying that there is an advantage only that it isnt that large that it gimps you. so many other factors come into play that even without armor you can still be effective.

Seras.5702:

Galen Grey.4709:

in most gear based MMOs yeah numbers are everything since everyone is gonna likely be using your same build and know the correct rotation. In Gw2 it is different.

And I am not even going to go over the fact WvW isnt about individual kills which makes said advantage even smaller!

Can’t hold a point or lay siege if you can’t stay alive or kill your enemy. No, it’s not team deathmatch. But if you can kill a dolyak faster it’s a good thing right? And if you can flip a supply point quick that’s a good thing right? And explain how all this makes an advantage (which is a fixed number btw) smaller. 5% is 5% and I’ve heard that based on skill scaling, the 5% stats actually increase various abilities much more than just 5%.

You cannot hold a point or lay a siege solo either though. You have to see it from a team perspective. Obviously your team will be penalized if you die and that death might very well be because you had a 10% disadvantage but its far from certain not to mention that a single match will have many such skirmishes making a net negative effect far harder to see if even there (again like i said in my previous post its quite possible that at the end of the day while you might not have an ascended gear set your team has more players in ascended then your enemy which would mean you’re actually at an advantage not a disadvantage)

again this doesnt even factor in that its pretty rare for engagements to be between groups of equal size too. 1 player difference iis basically the same as having 10 players with ascended armor vs 10 players in exotic and 1 player difference is a far more likely scenario then an even battle of 10 with one side completely in ascended and the other not.

The point that the OP was making is that it’s not just the fact that there’s a stat bonus that’s an issue. The real issue is HOW MUCH the stat increase is. And before any of you chime in that any increase is too much, would there really be this much outrage if it was a 1 point increase? Probably not. How much it increases by matters.

Since WvW has become the main point of contention, consider the following:

In WvW a person who has grinded enough can have:

Guard Killer: +100 power / +100 condition damage
Defense Against Guards: +250 Vitality

Then of course there’s all the bonuses that make you deal more damage siege, attack faster with siege, take less damage against siege, carry more supply, etc, all of which giving an advantage to those who have worked for it.

Compared to the the ALREADY EXISTENT, LARGELY ACCEPTED stat increases available in WvW, how significant or insignificant is the stat increase from ascended items?

Heh. I like “Name in use already”.

Clearly the differences make a difference to some folks, even in PvE. I’ve been kicked out of a dungeon PUG because I couldn’t ping three ascended items. And I’ve heard of similar incidents occurring to other people.

Henri Blanche.8276:

Heh. I like “Name in use already”.

Clearly the differences make a difference to some folks, even in PvE. I’ve been kicked out of a dungeon PUG because I couldn’t ping three ascended items. And I’ve heard of similar incidents occurring to other people.

I’m going to go out on a limb here and guess that the dungeon you were kicked from was Fractals, where you need a certain number of ascended items to survive agony, which is a mechanic that has existed for quite some time.

Subdue.5479:

Since WvW has become the main point of contention, consider the following:

In WvW a person who has grinded enough can have:

Guard Killer: +100 power / +100 condition damage
Defense Against Guards: +250 Vitality

Then of course there’s all the bonuses that make you deal more damage siege, attack faster with siege, take less damage against siege, carry more supply, etc, all of which giving an advantage to those who have worked for it.

Compared to the the ALREADY EXISTENT, LARGELY ACCEPTED stat increases available in WvW, how significant or insignificant is the stat increase from ascended items?

Ascended is another stat log on the fire not easily obtained as those buffs, in the end every little addition adds more to the advantage.

The stats from wvw are not always on, and you have to keep building the stacks again when you die, true it’s not exactly hard to do but it takes time after every single death. After the account wxp changes it most likely won’t be a big factor either as most will probably have the points for them.

I currently don’t have those buffs maxed on any of my characters but I’m looking forward to the change to get them maxed out. The difference between those buffs and ascended though is I know eventually just by playing I will get them, while ascended is a gold sucking grind hole that I don’t even want to bother with, I’d rather play without them and be angry at anet until they finally put a wvw way to obtain them.

Maybe because I’m a necro I really don’t feel hampered by not having extra damage on an arrow cart, stuff that can easily be avoided, the other buffs against objects have no reason to bother me either. Direct character stats will always seem more important than situational buffs which most of those wvw buffs cover.

Ascended is another stat log on the fire not easily obtained as those buffs, in the end every little addition adds more to the advantage.

When there are ACCEPTED incremental stat advantages already available which exceed those offered by ascended gears, it’s rather silly to point at ascended gear and scream “NONONO THAT’S TOO MUCH!”

The stats from wvw are not always on, and you have to keep building the stacks again when you die, true it’s not exactly hard to do but it takes time after every single death. After the account wxp changes it most likely won’t be a big factor either as most will probably have the points for them.

Yea, sorry I’m not buying this. “Not exactly hard” is an understatement. It takes mere seconds to rebuild your stacks after death if you’re moving with even just 2-3 people. You have them up for pretty much the entire time you’re in WvW. And getting those buffs is not easy either. I played the same character in WvW for MONTHS to get just the defensive buffs. Your WvW rank has to be something like 120 to max just one of the stacking lines, or about 240 to get both. Each of those levels most likely takes you an hour to gain at least, unless you’re in a very efficient karma train during a very lopsided matchup. It takes much longer to get those than it does to get ascended gear.

I currently don’t have those buffs maxed on any of my characters but I’m looking forward to the change to get them maxed out. The difference between those buffs and ascended though is I know eventually just by playing I will get them, while ascended is a gold sucking grind hole that I don’t even want to bother with, I’d rather play without them and be angry at anet until they finally put a wvw way to obtain them.

Don’t you get everything you need to make ascended items just by playing? This is such silly logic.

Maybe because I’m a necro I really don’t feel hampered by not having extra damage on an arrow cart, stuff that can easily be avoided, the other buffs against objects have no reason to bother me either. Direct character stats will always seem more important than situational buffs which most of those wvw buffs cover.

Hop onto your WvW server and ask any of the wellknown commanders which ranks and buffs are the most important, the most useful. Then come back and tell me the stats are more important.

I’m sorry but you’re stretching way way too far to avoid the glaring hypocrisy in pointing to stat advantages in WvW as an argument against ascended items.

Galen Grey.4709:

you find advantages in sports too over one athlete to another, nature doesnt create us all equal. Build, characteristics, external factors.

well...nature is not anet, for now.

we’re talking about an mmo.
mmo are designed around the slightest stats difference.
can it be little or evident, still there is it.

Kevan.8912:

Galen Grey.4709:

you find advantages in sports too over one athlete to another, nature doesnt create us all equal. Build, characteristics, external factors.

well...nature is not anet, for now.

we’re talking about an mmo.
mmo are designed around the slightest stats difference.
can it be little or evident, still there is it.

sure I didnt imply anet is just like nature only that nothing is ever perfectly balanced. at the end of the day its all about how much that imbalance will impact the game. I have a feeling that a lot of this issue stems from people’s experience in previous MMOs were a lot depended on gear. Subdue already pointed this out, there are many other sources of bigger statistical advantages in WvW and no one ever that I saw complained about food and consumables yet look around and see how many people keep food and consumables up even though collectively they exceed the stats provided by ascended armor.

Personally I dont see stats in gw2 matter as much as they do in other MMOs. I have a feeling a lot of people look at Gw2 through the lens of other MMOs where stats might really be all. I mean 10% advantage due to armor is clearly a big deal for people but then there is the general notion that DPS is all in Gw2 and support is pointless. Well 25 stacks of might and timewarp can boost the damage output of a group by 80% yet tons of people lash out against ascended armor and few if any attack statements claiming DPS is all people need and support is pointless.

Galen,
Are you seriously comparing the buff a 1s piece of food gives compared to the buff of hundreds of gold costing ascended gear?

The question is equity. Anyone can have food buffs. Not everyone can have full ascended gear. This gives an advantage (as small as it might be) that many of us find misplaced.

It is as if you got stuck in gold gear while others are in exotics. You start with a handicap that many of us find annoying.

I could be wrong, but thought WvW scales you to 80, am I right in saying it doesn’t scale your armor or your weapons? I was pretty sure that this was the case – PvP scales everything, but WvW just your level? If that’s the case, there are a huge number of people running in WvW who aren’t even equipped in exotics, and they’ve not complained overly much before – even many people outright say they go to WvW directly from creation to level a character. So, the people who will mostly feel disadvantaged by this stat increase are the people who are at 80 and already have BiS (other than Ascended)?

I can see how that is a problem for people, and I can see their concerns, but on the bright side, doesn’t it now make things more of a challenge for you? I see many threads about people saying how WvW is boring because it’s all mindless zerging, no real challenge, etc, etc. So now there is a challenge for some people who might experience this boredom (people with a statistical advantage over you), that could make things more interesting. Together with other players on the server, other WvW buffs on you etc, the matches might end up slightly better matched than before.

But generally, the point is that WvW is always unbalanced anyway. It really isn’t a bunch of true level 80s running around all in BiS gear.

I haven’t addressed any of my general irritations over Ascended armor, since really, they amount to it just being far too much effort and far too much requirement to go and play areas of the game I really don’t want to (before anyone says I don’t have to, I know this, and I don’t, so I won’t be in Ascended unless ANet decides that we can sell things on the TP and I’m ok – if not happy – with that choice). I’ve just mostly tried to paint the WvW issue in maybe a more optimistic light for some people who are feeling bad about it right now.

The bulk of the complaining about ascended has less to do with the actual stat increase (which does matter if you’re into WvW or min/maxing) but to do with the fact that Anet spend 5 years pimping their game as being one without gear progression or grind for gear.

I’m too lazy to look for the quote, but in essence, it was that everyone, including casuals would have the BiS gear at level 80. Further gear progression would be purely cosmetic.

Ascended is a blatant “kitten you” to every person who bought the game with that ideal in mind.

stale.9785:

The bulk of the complaining about ascended has less to do with the actual stat increase (which does matter if you’re into WvW or min/maxing) but to do with the fact that Anet spend 5 years pimping their game as being one without gear progression or grind for gear.

I’m too lazy to look for the quote, but in essence, it was that everyone, including casuals would have the BiS gear at level 80. Further gear progression would be purely cosmetic.

Ascended is a blatant “kitten you” to every person who bought the game with that ideal in mind.

But Anet didn’t actually spend five years pimping their game saying that the game would be without gear progression.

In those five years, you could count on one hand how many times they talked about gear progression, and almost always in answer to a question.

Out of hundreds of hours of interviews and video, Anet didn’t sell their game on a lack of vertical progression. They sold their game on dynamic events, personal story, and active/dynamic combat. That’s what they sold their game on.

When you look at their website, that’s what’s front in center. When you watched them at conventions that’s what they talked about.

Mentioning something a few times in five years is not selling your game on it. This is at very least an exaggeration.

Vayne.8563:

stale.9785:

The bulk of the complaining about ascended has less to do with the actual stat increase (which does matter if you’re into WvW or min/maxing) but to do with the fact that Anet spend 5 years pimping their game as being one without gear progression or grind for gear.

I’m too lazy to look for the quote, but in essence, it was that everyone, including casuals would have the BiS gear at level 80. Further gear progression would be purely cosmetic.

Ascended is a blatant “kitten you” to every person who bought the game with that ideal in mind.

But Anet didn’t actually spend five years pimping their game saying that the game would be without gear progression.

In those five years, you could count on one hand how many times they talked about gear progression, and almost always in answer to a question.

Out of hundreds of hours of interviews and video, Anet didn’t sell their game on a lack of vertical progression. They sold their game on dynamic events, personal story, and active/dynamic combat. That’s what they sold their game on.

When you look at their website, that’s what’s front in center. When you watched them at conventions that’s what they talked about.

Mentioning something a few times in five years is not selling your game on it. This is at very least an exaggeration.

That might be true, but I have to say that it’s the reason I bought the game. I thought, “YES! Fantastic, a game I don’t have to keep up with all the time, where I can come and go and have my character still in the same place it was last time I left a month ago”. That’s no longer the case. And, while I’m annoyed at Ascended but resigned to it if I want it, I can completely see why it’s annoyed some people.

So, no, I’m not going to rag on ANet for not keeping promises or for the manifesto or anything like that, because I also think that it’s a bad place to go, but I did just want to say that the major selling point of this game for ME, was the no gear progression. Now that I am in the game, there are several other reasons I like it, of course. But if I were a new player, attracted because I’d heard there was no gear progression and a player turned round to me and told me that wasn’t true, I don’t think I’d have picked it up in the first place.

CrossedHorse.4261:

Vayne.8563:

stale.9785:

The bulk of the complaining about ascended has less to do with the actual stat increase (which does matter if you’re into WvW or min/maxing) but to do with the fact that Anet spend 5 years pimping their game as being one without gear progression or grind for gear.

I’m too lazy to look for the quote, but in essence, it was that everyone, including casuals would have the BiS gear at level 80. Further gear progression would be purely cosmetic.

Ascended is a blatant “kitten you” to every person who bought the game with that ideal in mind.

But Anet didn’t actually spend five years pimping their game saying that the game would be without gear progression.

In those five years, you could count on one hand how many times they talked about gear progression, and almost always in answer to a question.

Out of hundreds of hours of interviews and video, Anet didn’t sell their game on a lack of vertical progression. They sold their game on dynamic events, personal story, and active/dynamic combat. That’s what they sold their game on.

When you look at their website, that’s what’s front in center. When you watched them at conventions that’s what they talked about.

Mentioning something a few times in five years is not selling your game on it. This is at very least an exaggeration.

That might be true, but I have to say that it’s the reason I bought the game. I thought, “YES! Fantastic, a game I don’t have to keep up with all the time, where I can come and go and have my character still in the same place it was last time I left a month ago”. That’s no longer the case. And, while I’m annoyed at Ascended but resigned to it if I want it, I can completely see why it’s annoyed some people.

So, no, I’m not going to rag on ANet for not keeping promises or for the manifesto or anything like that, because I also think that it’s a bad place to go, but I did just want to say that the major selling point of this game for ME, was the no gear progression. Now that I am in the game, there are several other reasons I like it, of course. But if I were a new player, attracted because I’d heard there was no gear progression and a player turned round to me and told me that wasn’t true, I don’t think I’d have picked it up in the first place.

But my question is this…what has really changed.

We have people gone for six months or more than have come back to the game in my guild. They jumped into a dungeon with us and did the dungeon. They played WvW with us and they were fine. They didn’t die any more than anyone else.

I think a lot of this is in people’s minds. Is there a difference between ascended gear and exotic…sure there is. That much is obvious.

But it’s not the kind of difference that will stop people from succeeding at events, or beating dungeons.

The only exception would be the absolute highest level fractals, and more casual players (and in fact most of the playerbase) will never see those anyway.