Guild Wars 2

lordkrall.7241:

I am very far from ultra conservative. Quite the opposite in-fact (being a feminist and being conservative doesn’t really work all that well together). Feels like you do have rather large issues with people not wanting games adding more objectifying things though.

I am not advocating to remove customization. I am advocating for changing customization to something, in my eyes, better. There are plenty of different armors that can be created without them showing off 75% of the characters body.

Feminism is all about creating equality between the genders, ergo gender equality.

You’re advocating for the removal of customization options that you do not like. That’s very different than adding things you do not like (“objectifying” armors), you aren’t forced to wear the armors but if you were to go and remove the options people currently have for something you personally consider better that’s unfair. I don’t understand how you’re failing to see this. Revealing armor is only a problem when there’s a clear disparity between male and females. If everyone has similar amounts of revealing and non-revealing armor it’s not a problem at all, it’s adding more optiosn for people

lordkrall.7241:

Zera Allimatti.2541:

While you bring up a valid point, the fact remains that sex sells, ArenaNet is a business, and ArenaNet will keep providing options to cater to various people, not just ultra conservatives like yourself. I have every right to enjoy skimpy clothing on people just as you have a right to dislike it.

But you can keep on advocating to remove customization options from the game, I’ll keep pushing back against it, because this is a godkitten stalemate.

And no, feminism is very much defined as the empowerment of women. It just happens to have some similarities to the concept of gender equality, but not entirely.

Gender equality, true gender equality, means that both the good and the bad affects the genders the same. You can’t take only the good with it.

I am very far from ultra conservative. Quite the opposite in-fact (being a feminist and being conservative doesn’t really work all that well together). Feels like you do have rather large issues with people not wanting games adding more objectifying things though.

I am not advocating to remove customization. I am advocating for changing customization to something, in my eyes, better. There are plenty of different armors that can be created without them showing off 75% of the characters body.

Feminism is all about creating equality between the genders, ergo gender equality.

gender equality =/= feminism. The two concepts are similar, but not the same thing. Take Emma Watson’s He for She movement thingy, for example. It is about men making sacrifices, taking a stand for, and advocating feminism (which is fine if that’s what they want to do). If it were truly about gender equality, Emma would have called it We for Us, so that it would be about both men and women coming together to advocate true gender equality. Sure, I might be splitting hairs, but kitten it if we are going to do this gender equality thing, we are going to do it right!

Actaually wait, it’s still not quite right to say men and women coming together. We can’t be excluding the transgendered people either. So yeah, We for Us, in that all people: men, women, and everything in between, can come together for true gender equality.

lordkrall.7241:

Actually feminism is all about gender equality. At least if going by the actual correct definition of it.

From the Oxford Dictionary: ‘The advocacy of women’s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.’

Its about female empowerment to achieve what feminists view as a flat measurement of how ‘equal’ a gender is (while we all know certain situations favour certain genders.) . So the definition isn’t what you think it is, it is female empowerment without the often malicious intent falsely painted onto the ideology by the other spectrum.

Carry on C:

Celtic Lady.3729:

I’m sure they’ll add metal Speedos for every armor weight with the new expansion, so no worries.

Metal speedo with a bandolier, sandals and headband. All the protection a fantasy soldier needs!

PistolWhip.2697:

lordkrall.7241:

Actually feminism is all about gender equality. At least if going by the actual correct definition of it.

From the Oxford Dictionary: ‘The advocacy of women’s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.’

Its about female empowerment to achieve what feminists view as a flat measurement of how ‘equal’ a gender is (while we all know certain situations favour certain genders.) . So the definition isn’t what you think it is, it is female empowerment without the often malicious intent falsely painted onto the ideology by the other spectrum.

Carry on C:

Thank you

lordkrall.7241:

Zera Allimatti.2541:

I suppose, but I still feel it is wrong to pretend to not like skimpy outfits just because it’s suddenly cool to be all “stop objectifying women” because it’s a trending thing right now.

I’m not saying that this is exactly what you are doing, but it seems that way. I’m also not saying that it is okay to treat women as objects, but this is a fantasy game set in a fictional world occupied by fictional people. They are not real people, and if I want my character’s skin showing then kitten it I will enjoy pretty pixels the game allows. Call me a pervert if you want, I don’t care, but I like the female figure’s aesthetics. It’s just the way I was born. It’s all part of the entertainment factor, and it’s not like our characters partake in sexually suggestive poses or actions.

At least, the game’s armor designs are varied enough that not all the armors are skimpy. There are plenty of ultra-conservative armor skins in the game. As the OP suggested, the game could use more, if anything.

Ah, the good old: “The only reason why people would be against skimpy armor is because it is cool to want to stop objectification of women.” I have been a feminist for over 15 years. It is not really something that magically turned up when it started being “cool”.

Why do there NEED to be skimpy armors? And why is it more okay to want to add more than to want to remove those that are already there? Yes it is fictional. But that doesn’t really change the fact that the norm in the entertainment world seems to be skimpy clothes on females, even though most females doesn’t dress at all like that in the real world. Not the mention in a world where there are murderous creatures and bandits everywhere.

Yes, GW2 is much better than most (most likely due to them having rather many feminists on their teams), so why make it worse? Adding skimpy armors for male is just as bad as adding skimpy armors for females. The difference is that in the case of females it is much more common.

Your distaste for skimpy armor has nothing to do with feminism, in fact I’m quite baffled why you’re against skimpy armor as a feminist. Most feminists I know are in favor of skimpy armor. Why? Hear me out.

The reason why women, both in real life and in fiction, wear skimpy attires is because it’s a display of power and confidence. The reason why male skimpy attires are less common is because we as a society put less value on the male body and male sexuality. The female body and female sexuality is more valuable. Because of the value we put on female sexuality, the female sexuality becomes another resource and another source of power for women to use. A woman can use her sexuality to manipulate people, her environment and society at large. It’s an incredibly useful and powerful tool that women have at their disposal but men don’t, because male sexuality does not receive the same value as female sexuality.

That is why a woman displaying her sexuality is perceived as powerful, depending on the context. The skimpy armor that my female norn wears adds to her image of being a powerful female warrior, it doesn’t subtract from it.

So why do you want to remove skimpy armor? Why do you want to take this form of power away from women? Aren’t you supposed to be a feminist?

zenleto.6179:

Celtic Lady.3729:

I’m sure they’ll add metal Speedos for every armor weight with the new expansion, so no worries.

Metal speedo with a bandolier, sandals and headband. All the protection a fantasy soldier needs!

I’m sorry but this was hilarious and it reminded of this one scene from Family Guy.

More often, women in skimpy armor aren’t sexy or powerful. We’re just COLD!

Celtic Lady.3729:

More often, women in skimpy armor aren’t sexy or powerful. We’re just COLD!

Good thing this is a fantasy game

Celtic Lady.3729:

More often, women in skimpy armor aren’t sexy or powerful. We’re just COLD!

We should have really thought better of wearing the metal bikini tops in Snowden Drifts. So cold!

You need the furry bikini for cold areas.

I’m going to just leave this here..

locoman.1974:

I’m going to just leave this here..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTGh0EMmMC8

That was funny. But on a more serious note:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

locoman.1974:

I’m going to just leave this here..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTGh0EMmMC8

That was funny. But on a more serious note:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eN-Gmmfd0E

Yep, a 20k eviscerate from a warrior dressed in skimpy armor is just as effective as a 20k eviscerate from a warrior dressed in full plate armor. More skin is not an attack on women. Making said woman nothing more than a ‘sexy lamp’ is, though.

lordkrall.7241:

Zera Allimatti.2541:

While you bring up a valid point, the fact remains that sex sells, ArenaNet is a business, and ArenaNet will keep providing options to cater to various people, not just ultra conservatives like yourself. I have every right to enjoy skimpy clothing on people just as you have a right to dislike it.

But you can keep on advocating to remove customization options from the game, I’ll keep pushing back against it, because this is a godkitten stalemate.

And no, feminism is very much defined as the empowerment of women. It just happens to have some similarities to the concept of gender equality, but not entirely.

Gender equality, true gender equality, means that both the good and the bad affects the genders the same. You can’t take only the good with it.

I am very far from ultra conservative. Quite the opposite in-fact (being a feminist and being conservative doesn’t really work all that well together). Feels like you do have rather large issues with people not wanting games adding more objectifying things though.

I am not advocating to remove customization. I am advocating for changing customization to something, in my eyes, better. There are plenty of different armors that can be created without them showing off 75% of the characters body.

Feminism is all about creating equality between the genders, ergo gender equality.

Your “equality” infringes on people’s freedom of expression. Showing more or less skin has nothing to do with feminism nor equality.

Either way, Guild Wars 2 is for all people, not just for people who believe everyone should be covered up for a certain percentage. It’s good there are multiple choices and that the customisation system is inclusive to a wide scala of personal views.

Zera Allimatti.2541:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

locoman.1974:

I’m going to just leave this here..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTGh0EMmMC8

That was funny. But on a more serious note:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eN-Gmmfd0E

Yep, a 20k eviscerate from a warrior dressed in skimpy armor is just as effective as a 20k eviscerate from a warrior dressed in full plate armor. More skin is not an attack on women. Making said woman nothing more than a ‘sexy lamp’ is, though.

Problem is, more often than not, female characters in media are designed in ways to highlight the “sexy” aspect of their character while ignoring everything else. And by doing this to a lot of female characters, or even all of them, “sexy” becomes standard and worthless as a tool of expression. I’d like to mention DA:O’s Morrigan here. She dresses in something I can call a shirt if I squint really hard, visually coding her as a stereotype (“sexy witch” in this case). As soon as she starts talking, though, we need to revise this impression. She is a good character with emotinal depth, and I can believe that she dresses the way she does because she wants to, not because a designer thought “Needs more boobies”. But. Then I get a set of armour, put it on a male character, and it looks fine, but as soon as I put it on a female character, it gets major cleavage and a bared midriff. Not only does this not make sense, it cheapens Morrigan’s character. Her attire vs. her attitude was part of what made her character interesting; but as soon as “show lots of skin” becomes the default, it’s nothing special anymore. It does two things: It makes me roll my eyes really hard, and it deprives the creators of the game of something they can use as a tool in storytelling. Neither of those things is good. Morrigan on her own is a great character, but if you put a character who confidently flaunts her sexuality and doesn’t take crap for it in a world where every woman seems to do the exact same thing for no reason, it flattens this character.
So while I’m fine with “skimpy” being part of the wardrobe, and I’m not going to bash anyone who likes skimpy armour, I’d like anyone who justifies unholy amounts of it (or female-skimpiness-only versions) with “it’s fantasy” to think about what I just wrote. As a creator, I am resposible for the impact my product has on those who consume it. But if I say that “I support gender equality”, but go on creating ridiculous armour for female characters only because “sex sells” or whatever (not true, by the way, unless you’re selling sex), then I should prepare to not be taken seriously. If you want to see boobs, just own it, but don’t pretend it’s “for a good reason”.

Celtic Lady.3729:

I’m sure they’ll add metal Speedos for every armor weight with the new expansion, so no worries.

Well it’s a jungle out there so Loincloths and chest pieces that are just bone and teeth necklaces would be most viable.

There’s always that one person that has to start a gender/feminism argument.

Doggie.3184:

Celtic Lady.3729:

I’m sure they’ll add metal Speedos for every armor weight with the new expansion, so no worries.

Well it’s a jungle out there so Loincloths and chest pieces that are just bone and teeth necklaces would be most viable.

Dude. Have you ever been in the woods in just your pants? Not fun. Everything there is out to get you! >:-D
Though I have to admit, something like that would be cool. In any case, my norn could finally show off their tattoos.

Lazaar.9123:

There’s always that one person that has to start a gender/feminism argument.

And that’s bad because…?

Red Queen.7915:

And that’s bad because…?

Because it’s actually not on topic. And it creates a heated debate for no real good reason. There are other places to discuss such things.

Red Queen.7915:

If you want to see boobs, just own it, but don’t pretend it’s “for a good reason”.

I already do own it. I already said I like the female aesthetic and skimpy outfits and find nothing wrong with them in the context of the game. I am not ashamed of it. I LIKE BOOBS, both real and pixelated. Anyone who doesn’t like that I like boobs can blow me.

Expression stops being expression when people say it is no longer expression, as you have just done. Don’t roll your eyes to it or dismiss it as fan service, because doing so is what makes it degrading in the first place.

Skimpy outfits in games were only considered obscene when people started labeling it as such. Like profanity, it is only such when it is deemed as such. When I was a kid the word stupid was considered an obscenity (it may or may not have been a cultural thing), but now stupid is not considered a vulgarity. In the old days, the word gay was not considered a vulgarity (it meant and still means happy). Now saying gay is associated with homophobia because some homosexuals chose to take offense to the term. Much like kitten, kitten, kitten, etc are only offensive because some people choose to take offense to it.

So, back to the skimpy armor: don’t treat it as a bad thing and it won’t be.

Lazaar.9123:

Red Queen.7915:

And that’s bad because…?

Because it’s actually not on topic. And it creates a heated debate for no real good reason. There are other places to discuss such things.

It is very much on topic. It wouldn’t be, in an ideal world where sexy vs. not sexy is a matter of personal taste and nothing more. But as long as video games use (usually female) sexy characters just because someone thinks there must be something sexy in a game (a.k.a. the sole reason Quiet exists), asking for more skimp armour in a game where there already is skimpy galore carries a certain connotation that can (and should) be addresses in the context the demand was made in.
And it is certainly possible to have a debate that is not heated, only most times, I see people throwing bullkitten arguments around in favour of skimpy armour (“but for female characters only, please, because seeing male characters in thongs makes me uncomfortable”), and yes, that makes me angry. Which is my right, since I have more stake in this debate than a male participant. I try not to let this show, though, so I do believe it is good and important to have this discussion in this context.

Jesus, now that was kinda offtopic…

I have to agree with this, I would love to see the objectification of males as much as we do for females in games. (is female rl) I know guys like to see hints of certain places, and I love it too, but I wouldn’t mind seeing more armor that shows off those sexy muscles and shoulders on a guy, or maybe a little leg here or there.

I’ve always wanted more skimpy male armor, but my cries keep being ignored. I would seriously pay 2k gems for a lord faren underwear skin (or an outfit where all your character wears armor-wise are lord faren’s underwear)

Some ideas for Anet:

Zera Allimatti.2541:

Red Queen.7915:

If you want to see boobs, just own it, but don’t pretend it’s “for a good reason”.

I already do own it. I already said I like the female aesthetic and skimpy outfits and find nothing wrong with them in the context of the game. I am not ashamed of it. I LIKE BOOBS, both real and pixelated. Anyone who doesn’t like that I like boobs can blow me.

Expression stops being expression when people say it is no longer expression, as you have just done. Don’t roll your eyes to it or dismiss it as fan service, because doing so is what makes it degrading in the first place.

Skimpy outfits in games were only considered obscene when people started labeling it as such. Like profanity, it is only such when it is deemed as such. When I was a kid the word stupid was considered an obscenity (it may or may not have been a cultural thing), but now stupid is not considered a vulgarity. In the old days, the word gay was not considered a vulgarity (it meant and still means happy). Now saying gay is associated with homophobia because some homosexuals chose to take offense to the term. Much like kitten, kitten, kitten, etc are only offensive because some people choose to take offense to it.

So, back to the skimpy armor: don’t treat it as a bad thing and it won’t be.

Now the profanity filter makes it seem like you find juvenile cats offensive… oO

Anyways. There are a few things I’d like to say to this.

1) You operate under the assumption that people choose to be offended, or feel uncomfortable, or feel degraded. That isn’t so. If your definition of fanservice means that what’s essentially a representation of me and my identity is used as eye candy, damsel and plot device and nothing else, I both am hurt by this notion and thus choose to be offended by it. I can’t turn this off, I think it’s wrong, and I will keep asking this: If the roles were reversed, if male characters were only there as tools to tell the stories of female characters and represented as such, would you be okay with that?

2) You switch cause and effect around. I do not label things and make them become that label – I see something that is already there and put a name to it. Your argument “skimpy armour is only obscene because you say so” is like saying “the n-word is only a slur because you make it one”. It is never the target of such a thing who makes it bad, it is the one wielding it as a weapon (however unwittingly).

We can stop treating skimpy amour as a bad thing when it stops being a bad thing. As it is, skimpy (female) armour almost never makes sense in context; it is used either as a marketing tool (though why anyone would assume this would influence someone’s decision to buy a game if it literally has nothing to do with the other 99% of the game is beyond me) or it is there because somewhere along the way, “sexy” became the default for any female representation in media (mostly in video games and comics, but films and TV do this, too), and any female character needs a good reason not to be sexy. It has a connotation, a mass of stereotypes attached to it, which are what make it “bad”, especially if it’s only there to have it in the game.
If skimpy armour is no longer used in the way it is now, if it stops being largely female-exclusive and becomes just another way of dressing up a character and nothing more, then we will stop having this discussion. As it is, I’m afraid there’s still need to talk, and be aware of the connotation and effect of skimpy armour.

I get the feeling that this thread will be locked. It went from a suggestion, to a debate over gender objectification equality.

That’s pretty much what happens every time the suggestion is made. That’s why I linked the older threads at the beginning, hoping people would take heed that these are not new discussions.

Let’s get this thread back on topic.

We want speedos and skirts for male characters. Make it so Anet!

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Let’s get this thread back on topic.

We want speedos and skirts for male characters. Make it so Anet!

Yes, we don’t want another locked skimpy armor thread!

My wishlist:

More light armored male skimpy (in particular) – more abs, more arm muscles, more leg muscles showing etc. etc.
Lord Faren’s speedo as a leg skin <- would do well as a gemstore addition
Kasmeer’s Bikini as a leg skin <- would do well as a gemstore addition

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Let’s get this thread back on topic.

We want speedos and skirts for male characters. Make it so Anet!

You also forgot chest armor that displays the abs and/or chest.

Tim.6450:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Let’s get this thread back on topic.

We want speedos and skirts for male characters. Make it so Anet!

You also forgot chest armor that displays the abs and/or chest.

+1

Especially for norn – let them show off those tats! Maybe new dungeon armour? “Honor of the Waves – Freeze your butt off in style!”

Edit: And by “for norn” I don’t mean cultural armour. I mean, I’d be fine with that, but I#d rather such armour be accessible to all races.

As a male, I too support the idea of revealing armor for males. I was looking around towns and saw human males with an open vest without a shirt underneath and male norn wandering around with little more than a cape between their waist and chin. If I want to have my character exposed like that, it’d be nice to have that as an option without removing armour outright. It doesn’t even have to be dynamically similar. Why not have an armour set or two where the guy actually wears less than his female equivalent. I think that would be a bigger step towards feminism or gender equality or whatever you want to call it than most of the suggestions in this thread.

And as a brief word to those arguing about how covered up the various classes are or are not, please stop. Yes, it is a perfectly reasonable discussion and one that needs to be had, but do we have to do it in this thread? There are ways to make it clear that you oppose the idea without having to champion the cause.

I’m not really asking for speedose and I don’t like speedo, just something sexy for men.. Not everyone on this game is a Male, there are some females to and females want to look at some skin not tinfoil head to toe armor or long trench coats.

Red Queen.7915:

Doggie.3184:

Celtic Lady.3729:

I’m sure they’ll add metal Speedos for every armor weight with the new expansion, so no worries.

Well it’s a jungle out there so Loincloths and chest pieces that are just bone and teeth necklaces would be most viable.

Dude. Have you ever been in the woods in just your pants? Not fun. Everything there is out to get you! >:-D
Though I have to admit, something like that would be cool. In any case, my norn could finally show off their tattoos.

Lazaar.9123:

There’s always that one person that has to start a gender/feminism argument.

And that’s bad because…?

I’ve been in the woods without pants or shirt. It’s fun.

Yes, man shoulders.

Also agree with people who like their tatts/fur choices that few armors actually let us see. I have a new male norn and I want to show him off.

More variety and everyone will be happy. Never settle for just the standard.

Honestly I agree that in general if the female version is revealing the male version should be equally so! Gender equality man! Besides its a known fact that Norn aren’t exactly modest and yet there’s not a whole lot of terribly revealing outfits for them to wear!

I always thought some of the monk or ritualist armor in GW1 was looking pretty good while being less clothed. I do miss armors that uses tattoos in general.

Monk Tattoo “lioncloth” armor might be overdoing it, but I found it pretty artistic.

Examples:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Ritualist_Kurzick_armor_m.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Monk_Labyrinthine_armor_m.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Necromancer_Ancient_armor_m.jpg

Doggie.3184:

Red Queen.7915:

Doggie.3184:

Celtic Lady.3729:

I’m sure they’ll add metal Speedos for every armor weight with the new expansion, so no worries.

Well it’s a jungle out there so Loincloths and chest pieces that are just bone and teeth necklaces would be most viable.

Dude. Have you ever been in the woods in just your pants? Not fun. Everything there is out to get you! >:-D
Though I have to admit, something like that would be cool. In any case, my norn could finally show off their tattoos.

Lazaar.9123:

There’s always that one person that has to start a gender/feminism argument.

And that’s bad because…?

I’ve been in the woods without pants or shirt. It’s fun.

Hm. Your woods seem way cooler than what we have here. Insects everywhere, and when you happen to touch a plant, chances are it’s burning nettles ._.

Wolfe.9850:

Honestly I agree that in general if the female version is revealing the male version should be equally so! Gender equality man! Besides its a known fact that Norn aren’t exactly modest and yet there’s not a whole lot of terribly revealing outfits for them to wear!

This! …both of this, actually. If we’re going by some semblance of in-universe realism here, norn should be dropping like flies from heatstroke as soon as they go anywhere south of Timberline Falls… ô.O

Rognik.2579:

I think that would be a bigger step towards feminism or gender equality or whatever you want to call it than most of the suggestions in this thread.

Honestly, I don’t think gender equality should be an issue in these kind of discussions. I think the option to costumize their character in the way the player wants should be the main goal of these kind of threads. I support all requests as long as it furthers this goal (within reason of course). As an example: if someone requested for a female light full length skirt without a ridicoulous log snit I would support it. Since it is unobtainable currently. Just as I support more revealing male armor since there is not enough of it in this game (I could argue with the upper heavy stuff but still) .

Red Queen.7915:

Tim.6450:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Let’s get this thread back on topic.

We want speedos and skirts for male characters. Make it so Anet!

You also forgot chest armor that displays the abs and/or chest.

+1

Especially for norn – let them show off those tats! Maybe new dungeon armour? “Honor of the Waves – Freeze your butt off in style!”

Edit: And by “for norn” I don’t mean cultural armour. I mean, I’d be fine with that, but I#d rather such armour be accessible to all races.

When you speak of norn do you talk about a certain clothing (like fur based clothing) or just the race? Also at the moment I think cultural armor for something like this would be inadvised since it is a problem for all races. If it were something more common like a special platemail (with the flag/symbol of their nation) yes that could/should cultural.

Why does less clothing = objectification though?

I dressed up in a full three piece suit as a prank at work because a coworker thought I looked like a gangster with my fedora and every single coworker of the female gender said I looked good (some even went so far as to touch my shoulder or back when they never have before. That sort of attentions was entirely unwanted by me yet for some strange reason they felt like they were suddenly allowed to invade my personal space because I dressed up). But, somehow, this doesn’t equal objectification because I wasn’t bare chested? What the kitteny kittens kitten!

I’ve never looked at a woman and thought of her as an object, no matter what she was wearing or even doing at the time. Did I find some outfits more visually appealing to me than others, yes. Did I also recognize them as a human being and not some doll for my personal viewing pleasure, yes!

Ultimately if a woman is being objectified it won’t matter what she’s wearing. The man is in charge of his thoughts and actions, not the woman. Vice versa and any other arrangement in between, too. Getting rid of skimpy armor in a game because it ‘objectifies’ women feels kinda like the victim blamers are winning to me.

I agree, there should be more skin in the male armor as well (c’mon, Conan is a warrior and is shirtless 99% of the time). The problem, however, is (looking at WoW and the Burning Crusade which killed WoW’s skimpy options) those armors tend to degenerate into dominatrix fetish styles instead of styles that can take themselves seriously. That just isn’t my thing nor something that I feel would fit with the artistic styles of GW1 and GW2. That’s just a fear of mine, but I bet GW2 could pull off the barbarian-esque styles for male armors.

Tim.6450:

Red Queen.7915:

+1

Especially for norn – let them show off those tats! Maybe new dungeon armour? “Honor of the Waves – Freeze your butt off in style!”

Edit: And by “for norn” I don’t mean cultural armour. I mean, I’d be fine with that, but I#d rather such armour be accessible to all races.

When you speak of norn do you talk about a certain clothing (like fur based clothing) or just the race? Also at the moment I think cultural armor for something like this would be inadvised since it is a problem for all races. If it were something more common like a special platemail (with the flag/symbol of their nation) yes that could/should cultural.

I mean that I’d like this armour (the stuff that shows off a bit of skin) for my norn characters because I hate hiding their tattoos, but I’d rather have it not be cultural, so it’s available to any character. I was just afraid someone might misinterpret (mission accomplished, or not^^) this as me wanting this armour specifically for norn, and norn only, when I meant that I like the idea of jungle themed armour for all races/characters, but I would personally get it primarily for my norn.

@Kentaine: For me, it’s not so much the fact that skimpy armour exists that is a problem, it’s the gross imbalance between female skimpy armour and male skimpy armour, as well as the way it is used to present female characters. I feel like few people realise that there is a difference between “Abolish all skimpiness!” and “Stop forcing skimpy on anything with boobs just because you can and even when it makes no sense!”. It’s not the bikini that I hate, it’s the way it’s often put on a character just because when logically, the character would not wear it.
In Gw2, it would make sense for both male and female norn to wear very little, both because they don’t need it and because they’d do it to show off how brave and fearless they are. But when I see stuff like Grasping dead armour, I just facepalm because I get the feeling that the female version looks the way it does simply because someone yelled “Boobs!” at the designer.
(Side note: Notice how female asura, who have no visible breasts (and thus aren’t visually coded as “female”), never get the skimpy treatment or are even “allowed” to wear the male versions, even when that means their chest is bare? That’s what I mean.)

Not that I think they should alter already existing armors, but sometimes- just sometimes- it would be nice to have armor sets that are not so gender divided, on either side of the fence. But on the other hand, I wish my Asuran Mesmer could wear some more poofy dresses, so I don’t know.

One side wants MORE! One side wants LESS! And I just look at Human Female Medium Cultural Tier 3 and think “Girl, pull that down before you get sand up in there. That’s gonna rub something awful.”

Tim.6450:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Let’s get this thread back on topic.

We want speedos and skirts for male characters. Make it so Anet!

You also forgot chest armor that displays the abs and/or chest.

If we get male speedos, I’m happy. Imagine my heavy armored norn Guardian in WvW, huge metal chest, arms, feet, and red speedos capping a Keep.

Yes! And when we get sexy male armor, we know what we must do.

(The last half is a bit of a jest, but still, +1 for universal sexyness)

I’m all for more options. I also know of a few ladies in my guild who would be extremely upset if they took away their “skimpy” or revealing clothing.

lordkrall.7241:

I would rather they decrease (or preferably completely remove) the amount of revealing female armors than adding even more revealing stuff.

You can’t be serious..
So you want to take armors away from players? Armors they like and worked for. Simply because you don’t like them?

Why do people have to make such a huge problem out of revealing armors for females in video games… It’s just a video game. If male characters had revealing armor I really wouldn’t care. Hell I hope Anet will give them revealing armor so people can stop drawing the Inequality card over a video game..

I still remember one person making a thread here in the early days about revealing female armor. Going as far as calling it dehumanizing, misogynistic and even institutionalised sexism. How people can be so incredibely overzealous and blow this so out of proportion is inconcievable. Now I’m not saying that you are one of those people, but they are among us.

The reason I like revealing armors for my female characters is simply because I like how it looks. that is it. I don’t see woman as a piece of meat, nor do I hate woman in any way. I have no ill will of any kind when it comes to using revealing armor, I just like how it looks nothing more nothing less.

While I don’t object to adding such things into the game, I’d rather see more masculine customization options for male characters (at least for norn and humans, anyways).

The body hair is sparse at best, and the facial hair options are also not as diverse as they could be. They’ve released new hair and face styles, but I don’t think they’ve ever had any new beard styles.

A lot of the male human faces have a feminine quality to them as well (or at least characteristics that are traditionally associated with a feminine appearance according to society’s norms, &c., &c.). It’s not that I want those to be removed, but I would, for instance, like some of the norn male faces to be ported over for use in human models because they have a more masculine quality to them (or at least characteristics that are traditionally associated with a masculine appearance according to society’s norms, &c., &c.).

Of course, that’s all personal taste. But if I am going to enjoy dressing my male characters in more revealing outfits, I’d like some additional masculine qualities to be present in the bodies (lumpy muscles and no breast does not suffice).

EDIT: On that note, I’d also like some female bodies that have small breasts that are also lithe. It seems the smaller breasted models all tend to have thicker thighs or bulkier torsos, which I find weird. It’s impossible to make something flat-chested that is also petite.

Red Queen.7915:

snip from all your posts so far

When you take away your personal values and beliefs (pertaining to feminism and objectification) I don’t think your views on the matter (add more skin showing male armor) are in conflict with those who you have “debated” with here.

Most here have little to no issue with the proposal that more skin showing male armor gets introduced, in the name of gender equality or any other reason. They only object to narrow-minded comments like this one:

If you want to see boobs, just own it, but don’t pretend it’s “for a good reason”.

Amusing how the word “feminism” and “objectivity of females” enters the conversation and all the guys get all defensive and offended suddenly. Sometimes, guys are just…priceless.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Amusing how the word “feminism” and “objectivity of females” enters the conversation and all the guys get all defensive and offended suddenly. Sometimes, guys are just…priceless.

I think some men understand “feminism” much better than some women.