Guild Wars 2

I turned around and reinstalled GW1 a week or so ago and it is disrupting my ability to log onto GW2 =p. Played the game for about a week a long time ago and didn’t give it a second chance till now. Bumping around presearing still after trying a bunch of different builds and classes (and starting over and over and over cause I was trying to hit 20 without dying…I’m a masochist apparently) and not leaving till I hit 20 for the title and any other things that may give me credit for achievements in GW2.

The only down side right now is I am not logging in to do daily/monthly activities in GW2, something that I feel causes a root problem in design, but that’s for a different topic.

What I have noticed is what a lot of the old GW1 players have mentioned about the complexity and balance of the skills, classes, and combat. With the simplicity of the stats and the idea of horizontal progression, you do not get bloat and inflation of stats and gear. After a few years many MMOs talk about a stat squish because things just get out of hand after a while. This brings me back to EQ1 before any expansions, and gear increases how little to no stats on them. Gear was good just because it was gear, and not because it was a class specific, stat oriented, dps/healer/tank, set. GW1 still has some intricacies such as % of life stat bonuses or spell school orientation, but they are in the minor amounts so that gear isn’t leaps and bounds different from one person to the next.

The other thing is the way that combat seems to work. Bleed didn’t have a damage amount to it, it simply reduced health regeneration. This can be counteracted by a boon that increases health regeneration by more ticks than bleed or any conditions that may be applied. It felt more like a tug of war with HP and Energy than a number crunching game. This is a good thing because it leads way into player skill and strategy and not big numbers win.

Some of you hardened GW1 players may be more indepth than I am seeing the game. But there is something about the combat that is vastly different and refreshing to me after playing so many MMOs since EQ1. So much so that while I see the root ideas and similarities in GW2, I would like to see more of that contributed now.

I do recognize that GW1 is more strategic in combat and GW2 is more action/tactical, so the combat style in general is vastly different and at a different pace. GW2 combat is highly involved and keeps me active, which I appreciated and enjoy. I just want to bring some more complexity into the fight and skill mechanics that they were able to do in GW1 to the fast pace action oriented combat of GW2.

Excuse the ramblings of a guy who discovered a game years after other people have played and finished already =p I just find it highly refreshing and enhances my enjoyment of GW2 even more!

When you get to end game and you see how it plays then, you’ll find a very different experience, I think.

I so miss the days when you couldn’t get survivor AND defender of ascalon on the same character. Made them so much more meaningful….and a kitten to get. lol

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I so miss the days when you couldn’t get survivor AND defender of ascalon on the same character. Made them so much more meaningful….and a kitten to get. lol

I never ended up with either of them. Survivor was ruined for me by the whole Kilroy dungeon, where people could get it in a weekend. I still have a guy who never died, who’s sitting on Idomitable Survivor…but I got there by vanquishing and finishing compaigns.

Vayne.8563:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I so miss the days when you couldn’t get survivor AND defender of ascalon on the same character. Made them so much more meaningful….and a kitten to get. lol

I never ended up with either of them. Survivor was ruined for me by the whole Kilroy dungeon, where people could get it in a weekend. I still have a guy who never died, who’s sitting on Idomitable Survivor…but I got there by vanquishing and finishing compaigns.

I got survivor twice (1 for each account – ele primary, mes secondary. my original survivor – monk – sacrificed herself to save my husband’s survivor ele lol) prior to Kilroy and HFFF. After those…and then the implementation of being able to achieve it even after dying just ticked me off. So much work coordinating my teams (cause like hell I was gonna take people, nuh uh. Learned not to do that the hard way), and playing smart, and having to rezone a billion times to get the right boss to skill cap, just ugh. Made it all my hard work feel so kitten cheap. Gods, thinking of all the times rerolled that monk….and then my ele… sigh ..was a little easier with the mes having managed it once.

I started working on LDoA, got up to like lvl 16, and then they added the daily quests to make it easier and that killed it for me. Felt like cheating and I just couldn’t stomach watching everyone go the easy route.

So your saying GW1 been out longer then GW2? Because that the only thing that you will see is why there more things to do and more things to build for now. In time GW2 will get more things and there no fee to play GW2 so unless your going to some how destroy your code there no problem with you playing other game then GW2. Mind you GW1 is not going to get any more content.

I’m not very in-depth either but i did play GW1 for years, starting with open beta.
I’d say GW1 still is much more different that most other mmo/rpgs (whateverthekittenyouwanttocallit) out there, than GW2 is.
Main downside of GW1 is that it has a lot of gated content (even more than GW2), which caused it to devolve into what is in effect a single player game.

“It felt more like a tug of war with HP and Energy than a number crunching game. "

Word. I hate number crunching games.

“The only down side right now is I am not logging in to do daily/monthly activities in GW2”

Imho there’s something wrong with the game if one of the main attractions is to quickly do a couple of mundane daily tasks.
The challenge appears to be to spend as little time and effort on it as possible, and folks do the tasks for the reward, not because it’s fun to do, let alone heroic.

There wasn’t any fee to play GW1 either. In any case, GW2 will eventually get more content…it just takes time. But I don’t think that’s what the OP was commenting on. He/she was remarking on the mechanical gameplay differences between the two.

Strategic/build-heavy(GW1) vs tactical/skill-timing(GW2). <—can’t change that dynamic in either game really.

Obsidian.1328:

There wasn’t any fee to play GW1 either. In any case, GW2 will eventually get more content…it just takes time. But I don’t think that’s what the OP was commenting on. He/she was remarking on the mechanical gameplay differences between the two.

Strategic/build-heavy(GW1) vs tactical/skill-timing(GW2). <—can’t change that dynamic in either game really.

If you played a mesmer in GW1, it was all about skill timing. In fact, skill timing in GW1 was no less important that it is now in GW2.

The way I see it, in GW1 the strategy was about skill synergy between the 8 party members (I mean serious synergy, and skill chains) and having the proper counter-skills for specific zones/encounters. In GW2, the focus is more on positioning and dodging (skill synergy to a much lesser extent). It is futile to argue which is better, because it comes down to personal flavors.

For me, I just wish GW2 had more weapon skills and more synergy between traits and skills. And that elites would be meaningful. It would be perfect.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I so miss the days when you couldn’t get survivor AND defender of ascalon on the same character.

Wait so you can currently can?

how do you get defender of ascalon without dying?

GrandmaFunk.3052:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I so miss the days when you couldn’t get survivor AND defender of ascalon on the same character.

Wait so you can currently can?

how do you get defender of ascalon without dying?

daily quests we introduced to pre-seering a few years back.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I so miss the days when you couldn’t get survivor AND defender of ascalon on the same character.

Wait so you can currently can?

how do you get defender of ascalon without dying?

both titles were changed. Survivor title was originally unobtainable after the first time you died. it was then changed so you needed X amount of XP without dying, so you can try over and over again.

LDoA originally needed death leveling of enemies ( i assume that’s what you’re referring to?) but they then added daily quests which i think gave 1000xp a day, you could also farm the enemies that spawned, whose levels increased with your level, so death leveling was no longer needed.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I so miss the days when you couldn’t get survivor AND defender of ascalon on the same character.

Wait so you can currently can?

how do you get defender of ascalon without dying?

They implemented daily quests in Pre, so you can level up to 20 before you leave. No more death leveling required:

“Lieutenant Langmar and her quests were added in the March 3, 2011 update, so that players would be able to earn the Legendary Defender of Ascalon title without death leveling.” http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lieutenant_Langmar

Also, even if you do die, you can now get survivor w/o rerolling the character. You only need to achieve the required xp w/o dying. It simply resets the counter to 0 if you die:

“The March 3, 2011 update changed the title from counting experience starting when the character was first created to counting starting from the last death.” http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Survivor

“This change also made it possible to obtain both Survivor and Defender of Ascalon; previously, the titles were mutually exclusive since the only way to reach level 20 (in pre-Searing) had been through death leveling.”

I was more than peeved….

ah, interesting. I haven’t been back since the first phase of Beyond, didn’t know about these changes, both are pretty interesting.

I agree the new approach to Survivor is a bit cheap, but the pre-searing change is a huge improvement, death leveling is a really poor mechanic to build a title around.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

ah, interesting. I haven’t been back since the first phase of Beyond, didn’t know about these changes, both are pretty interesting.

I agree the new approach to Survivor is a bit cheap, but the pre-searing change is a huge improvement, death leveling is a really poor mechanic to build a title around.

I could understand the reasoning behind the Survivor change. Still didnt make me happy, but I could at least see their point on it.

Yes, death leveling kind of blows, but it at least took some effort to get those crazy cats into position where you could death level them. kitten critters like to run away, especially with them continuously tweaking aggro and AI.

Silver

Well true, what I meant was timers I guess. This games’ skills largely come down to timers and positioning and reflexes. And with all the dodging, leaping, and launching, it feels more console-ish to me I guess. Which isn’t in itself a bad thing, just different.

The recharge times on GW1 skills were all relatively short compared to this game(leet skills even shorter…like under 10 seconds), so it was the energy bar which dominated your skill choice and frequency. Not sure how, but it seemed easier manage the skill bar with that one, over-arching limiter. And yeah, it was a lot easier to synergize with other classes.

Vayne.8563:

When you get to end game and you see how it plays then, you’ll find a very different experience, I think.

I find that funny thinking now at least GW1 had an end game..

And i remember also thinking kitten that game experience was amazing beginning to end, I’ll do it again just because you did not doesn’t mean others didn’t either..

While pressing 2 to kill zaitan i did not feel my end game experience to be at all epic or exciting in any way shape or form, and i’ve not met anyone in game that did..

Dante.1508:

Vayne.8563:

When you get to end game and you see how it plays then, you’ll find a very different experience, I think.

I find that funny thinking now at least GW1 had an end game..

And i remember also thinking kitten that game experience was amazing beginning to end, I’ll do it again just because you did not doesn’t mean others didn’t either..

While pressing 2 to kill zaitan i did not feel my end game experience to be at all epic or exciting in any way shape or form, and i’ve not met anyone in game that did..

Zhaitan wasn’t end game experience, any more than killing Shiro in the last mission in Factions was.

But Lupi is certanly end game. High level fractals are end game. You can deny end game exists only by ignoring those. Not to mention the temples in Orr which are quite hard these days.

Vayne

At least Shiro required certain classes,skills, and/or the right hero’s to finish. Not so much at all with Zhaitan.

I do agree the Orr temples are a unique end-zone mechanic, kinda wish they didn’t reset so darn fast though. Fractals, I hear, are fun, but it’s still a form of gear-grind…thank goodness we have laurels for that.

Who is Lupi?

The tick system from GW1 was one of the best game design features I’ve ever seen in a game.

For the OP – good to see another EQ player enjoy GW1 for similar reasons as myself.

Although I played GW1 when it launched and stopped playing for GW2, I’ve started to miss it lately. I realize that skills were much harder to balance in GW1, but I miss the large range of options we had there. I have the same two or so skill sets I use everyday and beyond that I can’t be creative and mix and match builds like I did when GW1 was young. I can mess around with my traits, but it’s not quite the same and in the end I am more or less stuck with the same skills. I used to love going to RA and playing around with skills. For a while I was decent at making builds (especially elementalist, ranger, and later rit).

And horizontal progression in GW2? It’s not there. I wish they had never introduced some of the things they did in GW2 to kill horizontal progression. When they first announced 80 levels for GW2 my heart sank. Levels add nothing to this game except for zones filled with content we will never go back to, just like in every other MMO out there. And don’t even get me started on the tiers of armor we have… it drives me crazy. In GW1 you could obtain the max stat armor very quickly.

I realize they wanted to break away from GW1 to make what they considered a “real” MMO, but they could have done that without killing the better aspects of GW1. Sometimes I feel like they just wanted to attract former WoW players. o.O

Ah well, I’m glad you are getting to enjoy GW1, anyway. I would highly suggest anyone else not familiar with it to give it a shot. It’s pretty cheap to get the first three campaigns now.

As I said many times and will continue to say, "Guild Wars 1 Team Design and Devs were the best at everything with the game and it’s player base, including it’s community.’

None of these Theatrics were included-

Favoritism of classes
Stealth – yet Gw1 Assassin class outperforms thief class in every category, till this day.
Imbalancing of classes and the game to the extreme
*Bots, Hacks etc,, “that couldn’t been handled” for long period of times
Long lasting bugs since release.
Manipulating and Deceiving their Advertisement of the game Pre-release and final release.
*Nerfing farming to the Extreme/Oblivion
Punishing players who dislike a class in the forums
Punishing players for mentioning the word “Nerf” in the forums
Nerfing loot drops
Elitism of classes
Using Intimidation tactics against the players for not siding with their ways.

The combat and class mechanism worked coordinately at their best in helping the players who played them.

Guild Wars 1 was true to it’s name in addition, they have a lot of interesting continually contents that evolves in the game and with the player.

What I also like about Guild Wars 1 is that, the Designers and Devs made your class feel Special, Important and Needed in every way.

Not to Pit the Strong class against the Weak class

The Devs in the community were vigilant, communicated, listened in resulting in making adjustments and fixes to the issues that were raised.

I don’t blame you OP for feeling this way..

As the saying goes, “Good Graphics are worthless without a Good Mechanism”

It’s like putting a 2013 Hyundai Veloster Turbo car body inside a 1951 Crosley Hotshot engine and saying that’s it’s a new car and has Good Mechanism.

Oh Really

Guild Wars 1 weren’t about “the looks”, it was about Everything – both interiors and exteriors were Good*.

In fact the “Good Graphics” update was implemented long after the game release.

So…

Therefore that analogy wouldn’t ‘fit them not in 1 million years’.

I would bet in 1 million years Guild Wars 2 will Never come close too or even will Ever touch the surface to the Works and Beauty of Guild Wars 1.

Guys, if we go back to GW1 and put some more life back into it, it will entice even more people to come back and then we can all have fun playing a game that doesn’t revolve around the gem shop.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

ah, interesting. I haven’t been back since the first phase of Beyond, didn’t know about these changes, both are pretty interesting.

I agree the new approach to Survivor is a bit cheap, but the pre-searing change is a huge improvement, death leveling is a really poor mechanic to build a title around.

Technically they didn’t build a title around it. I’m pretty sure when they designed the game they thought it was impossible to get to level 20 in pre, then players discovered death levelling and started doing it and they added a title to reward them for the effort.

Years later for whatever reason they suddenly decided it was a bad mechanic and changed it. Conveniently just as I’d started death levelling and decided I was probably never going to finish it.

If I was given the option to scrap the entire GW2 combat system and replace it with GW1 and still have GW2 graphics and PVE content, I’d click it and would not regret it.

GW1 combat > GW2 combat
GW2 graphics/PVE > GW1 graphics/PVE

if gw1 had as many ppl playing as in 08 i’d quit gw2 and go back to the real guild wars but its sadly empty…

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne

At least Shiro required certain classes,skills, and/or the right hero’s to finish. -snip-

He did?

2 eles with Echo – Arcane Echo – Celestial Skill…..

Everything else was just fodder. hehehehehe