Guild Wars 2

As the title states. I would like a hardmode toggle like in GW1. Maps would be split creating overflows when necessary. Hardmode should also have increased rewards for completing meta events and maybe even map completion.

I love the idea of extra challenge.

However increased rewards for open world content like this could be a risk.

I would love a hardmode like in GW1, where all mobs get extra abilities and aren’t pushovers. The amount of fun for veteran players would be immense.

However I doubt ANet will ever include a hm. As you said, it would need to be on a different instance than the normal mode. Thus it would take players away from the already quite empty maps, which would be bad for new players.

At least that’s ANet’s logic. In reality there is currently little to no reason to go back to the old maps, which makes them just as empty and even makes veteran players loose interest in the game.

this is something I would love to explore. ppl might actually use the massive open world instead of it being mostly empty!

Nice idea but it wouldn’t work. You would literally need an entire server within the megaserver to do that. Impossible for you to be in a map on hard more while others aren’t in hard mode within the same map. Therefore you would need an entire server for it. Not happening ever. They could revamp core maps and add more flavor since people think it’s all too easy and unimpactful there.

If you want hard mode, stash your gear in a safe box and equip whites. I’d think that would be as close as you could get. After all, the concept of mega servers and joined WvW worlds is to get people playing together, not spread out even more.

That’s going to fragment the community, which is bad for incoming new players. They are going to see empty maps with no old players.

This would double the number of PvE maps, which means you can expect about half as many people in each map as you currently see. I don’t know if I can support something that has the potential to fragment the community so much.

This has been debated many times. As posters have stated, the game could not sustain the fragmentation of the playerbase. Who would go to to Tequatl in nm when they can go to hm for better rewards? It would do damage to the long term feasibility of even having metas.

The other issue is, what will happen when those mastering it get bored? Demands for an even harder map? Abandoning altogether?

Anet want their open world accessible and encouraging cooperation across all skill levels. True challenge modes are rightfully reserved for instanced content.

How about No? if you want a hardmode map then go to HoT maps :>

There’s no need to split any maps.

All that needs to be done for a challenge mode for a NPC to offer you a handicap debuff. Like Fractal instabilities, you will have various disadvantages piled on you based on certain conditions, enemies will put a bigger focus on killing you, and you will get additional xp/magic/gold find/gathering/map bonuses The bonus increases the higher level map you go.

In addition, if you go down or are defeated, you lose this effect, and must wait 15 minutes to reactivate it again

This will not increase the rewards from world bosses, in order to stop people from activating this buff and leeching off of other people. In addition the threshold for tag credit is increased as well.

We are not getting a “hard mode” for open world pve.

Want hard mode? Do raids, high level fractals, spvp and wvw.

ArchonWing.9480:

There’s no need to split any maps.

All that needs to be done for a challenge mode for a NPC to offer you a handicap debuff. Like Fractal instabilities, you will have various disadvantages piled on you based on certain conditions, enemies will put a bigger focus on killing you, and you will get additional xp/magic/gold find/gathering/map bonuses The bonus increases the higher level map you go.

In addition, if you go down or are defeated, you lose this effect, and must wait 15 minutes to reactivate it again

This will not increase the rewards from world bosses, in order to stop people from activating this buff and leeching off of other people. In addition the threshold for tag credit is increased as well.

This could work, but I don’t really see a point to it honestly.

How would a personal debuff prevent other players without the debuff from helping?

Lots of ways. It could:

• Decrease all extrenal healing you get by 85%
• Decrease your own healing by 33% (as if you had permanent poison, and yes poison would stack on top of this)
• Not allow you to gain boons applied by other players, or all boons applied by other players have 50-75% less duration
• Condis you have can’t be cleansed by external skills, you have to cleanse them all yourself
• Take 20-33% more damage from mobs

This would allow other players to help clear events with you, but you’d pretty much be on your own combat wise, as any support they could directly give would be ineffective. As an added precaution, any bonus rewards could be removed if you are in a large group (though I’m not sure how easy this would be to quantify)

OriOri.8724:

Lots of ways. It could:

• Decrease all extrenal healing you get by 85%
• Decrease your own healing by 33% (as if you had permanent poison, and yes poison would stack on top of this)
• Not allow you to gain boons applied by other players, or all boons applied by other players have 50-75% less duration
• Condis you have can’t be cleansed by external skills, you have to cleanse them all yourself
• Take 20-33% more damage from mobs

This would allow other players to help clear events with you, but you’d pretty much be on your own combat wise, as any support they could directly give would be ineffective. As an added precaution, any bonus rewards could be removed if you are in a large group (though I’m not sure how easy this would be to quantify)

Wouldn’t this make it harder on players not wanting to play on hard mode as well? If you are less effective, more squishy, etc; wouldn’t that have an effect on your ability to contribute to the group? The issue I have with this would be the same that I had with Magic find when it was a stat… One person gains everyone else compensates for that persons advantage, of course if something like this did happen. Most people would just run with it on in open world for increased gains :P

Miku.6297:

I love the idea of extra challenge.

However increased rewards for open world content like this could be a risk.

why? Open world events and meta are timegated and time consuming many of them take longer than doing your t4s. So yeah commitment for higher reward sounds good to me

AncientYs.8613:

How about No? if you want a hardmode map then go to HoT maps :>

Salty much? As youay have read he asks for a hardMODE which means something specific a guild for a map would start or it would be personal. So yeah salty much?

Miku.6297:

OriOri.8724:

Lots of ways. It could:

• Decrease all extrenal healing you get by 85%
• Decrease your own healing by 33% (as if you had permanent poison, and yes poison would stack on top of this)
• Not allow you to gain boons applied by other players, or all boons applied by other players have 50-75% less duration
• Condis you have can’t be cleansed by external skills, you have to cleanse them all yourself
• Take 20-33% more damage from mobs

This would allow other players to help clear events with you, but you’d pretty much be on your own combat wise, as any support they could directly give would be ineffective. As an added precaution, any bonus rewards could be removed if you are in a large group (though I’m not sure how easy this would be to quantify)

Wouldn’t this make it harder on players not wanting to play on hard mode as well? If you are less effective, more squishy, etc; wouldn’t that have an effect on your ability to contribute to the group? The issue I have with this would be the same that I had with Magic find when it was a stat… One person gains everyone else compensates for that persons advantage, of course if something like this did happen. Most people would just run with it on in open world for increased gains :P

No, because its not buffing the mobs, its just giving a huge debuff to individual players. And since their outgoing support (boons, effects, condi clears, and any external healing) are both not hampered, and stuff that you shouldn’t rely on in PvE, it wouldn’t change anything for other players on the map

But why a personal debuff instead of a completely different map instance for those who want to play on hard mode?

OriOri.8724:

No, because its not buffing the mobs, its just giving a huge debuff to individual players. And since their outgoing support (boons, effects, condi clears, and any external healing) are both not hampered, and stuff that you shouldn’t rely on in PvE, it wouldn’t change anything for other players on the map

So you disagree, that player A taking a large debuff to survivability, and utility would not hamper the rest of the players total performance overall?

The fact that the player with this debuff would take increased damage, have reduced healing, and reduced boon gain/spread from others would not lower the over all team ability. While receiving these types of penalties this player would be rewarded with increased loot? Seems a bit wrong to me.

I honestly think a debuff or a map would be more trouble then they are worth, splitting the community is generally not a good idea when making the game world feel alive.

The best way for Anet to do this, would be to use instances like fractals/raids, where you get your 5/10 man team together, pick a map from an NPC and go vanq it in hardmode,

Maps would need preset, so no world bosses ( Jormag, Shatterer etc ) would spawn in said maps, only your standard mobs all the way up to champion, more and more of the game is becoming instanced, and I would love to see HM introduced, with better rewards for map completion etc.

Open world works fine, don’t mess with it, please, you will just break everything. We have casual-friendly core Tiria, we have challange-filled HoT maps. Works great for everyone.

Heh… Orr was originally so “hard mode” that they nerfed it to state its in now….

So, no… Anet is unlikely to offer hard mode maps.

I think a lot of people have hit on the biggest reason this would be a bad idea – it would fragment the playerbase.

That said, I think there are some mechanics they could use to introduce harder core fights into the game that wouldnt have that effect.

The one I would advocate for is something I’ve always thought the game could use more of – waves of enemies based on the push-pull concepts they talked about pre launch. Imagine pushing a wave of centaurs out of a human settlement in Gendarren Fields and back into the caves in the west of the map. Once you’ve done that, the centaurs then try to take it back, sending wave after wave of ever more powerful enemies, even adding more fight mechanics (and greater rewards) the longer you try and hold the cave.

And, finally, they overwhelm you and push back out into the town, where the opposite takes place. The powerful bosses overtake the town, but – as time goes on, they either attrition down or, if there is no real player resistance, tire of the process and leave a basic garrison behind, starting the entire chain over again.

That is how I think they could implement hard mode encounters across the map without splitting the community (actually probably bringing them together more). I realize it probably wont happen – just my two cents on this topic.

Additionally, for world bosses, I think they need to expand the capability of the boss event flag that currently only works on triple trouble, tequatl and karka queen to include all world bosses and possibly even dynamic event chains. It would encourage more coordination and give guilds more to do together that doesnt require standing around waiting for something to happen.

Another thought is that they could even give that flag the ability to spawn harder versions of world bosses. This would let guilds organize on a single map instance prior to triggering (much like guilds do for TT now) but wouldnt exclude others from joining. There would still be a slight pug effect, but the initial organization would allow for tougher mechanics to work their way in.

You could try running with only white level gear, with no traits or foods/utilities.

Then you’ve got hard mode right here, right now.

Or at least “harder”

one word: RAID’s
“Raids are our answer to what skilled PvE players have to look forward to at endgame—the ultimate test to overcome and defeat.” ~Raids

hard mode ? of course you can.. don’t ever change your starting gear…. well, might just feel a little bit harder but not that hard really….

again, not getting extra reward for making it harder on yourself is a bit hard mode, really….

Zaraki.5784:

But why a personal debuff instead of a completely different map instance for those who want to play on hard mode?

In my mind it would be to not split the map population. This would be my issue with such a system. Using this debuff method would avoid that issue.

I get the whole “raids are the hardmode” thing but I personally don’t like them. I really do like the personal debuffing NPC idea and it would be fairly easy to implement (I may be wrong I’m not a programmer). I saw another thread suggesting a rework to the SoD map event and was hoping for more buff to world bossed like the shattered. My whole goal here was to make the vanilla maps less… stale I guess. I really hate the “wear white gear for hardmode” requests as I have spent a lot of time and gold getting multiple sets of ascended armor and weapons. The fact that I should just throw them aside to have a challenge is, for a lack of a better word, dumb.

Is there any reason for an overpowered God of Death and Destruction to go to some queensdale and play with a bunch of new players?

If you want a hard mode, then the game is too easy for you and you need your rewards reduced because they are too easy to get. More difficult content should rarely grant greater reward. The time, effort, cost, etc…spent by Anet on the harder content is the reward your asking for. How about a nice title for that extra effort? Yeah, thought so.

Probably, you want more, better rewards, regardless of whether more difficult content was added or not.

More likely, threads like this will start making more players ask for easier content in Hot and Raids. That request is just as serious and important as yours.

Seth Moonshadow.2710:

one word: RAID’s
“Raids are our answer to what skilled PvE players have to look forward to at endgame—the ultimate test to overcome and defeat.” ~Raids

GW2 raids were a cop out carbon copy of 10 year old MMO systems (that even those games have since moved on from) and, in their current iteration, do more to hurt the game than help it. And, to the quote above, they definitely don’t accomplish that goal. The only skills they encourage are the skills to copy paste builds, memorize a dance and find exactly 10 people (god forbid you have 11 friends) willing to do the same.

There are much better ways that Arenanet could have implemented difficult content into their game – ways that would have played to the game’s strengths and encouraged community rather than what we see now. I think those ideas are worthy of discussion.

Maybe Elite Maps with Normal/Hard Mode? Of course Hard mode should be like hell. Maybe give the mobs GW1 skills… (Hello hexes & curses!)

In my opinion, adapting and leveraging this item -

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_World_Event_Schematic

would have been the perfect way to introduce difficult organized group content into guild wars 2. Extend it to include all world bosses and then make three versions of the trigger – one for the boss we have now, another for small guild groups and one for a blistering difficult version of the fight.

So, if a highly organized and talented guild group gets together and decides they want to do Shadow Behemoth, they:

• Go to Godlost Swamp
• Spend a minute or two getting on the same map instance (and pugging in people if needed)
• Use the “hardmode” schematic to trigger an open world version of that boss that offers a real challenge, new mechanics and unique loot.

I dont see any reason this same item couldn’t be used for dynamic event chains in the open world as well – with the same hard, regular, small group model listed above.

This is an example of how they could have leveraged the existing game systems to incorporate difficult content into the game in a very unique and fun manner (using lvl 100+ fractals for instanced difficult content).

And, for those thinking “but I don’t want to be in a guild to have to do this,” – simple solution there as well. Just make these triggers available for purchase in the guild chapterhouse in LA by individuals. Then, pretty much any organized group, as long as one person has the trigger, could start the fight up.

That (or some other creative solution) is what difficult content should have looked like in this game. It wouldn’t have segmented the population, there would be no story continuity issues, it would have allowed for the quicker implementation of raid level difficulty fights throughout the game, it would have given guilds something more to do (without excluding small groups or guildless players) and it would have been fun.

OriOri.8724:

ArchonWing.9480:

There’s no need to split any maps.

All that needs to be done for a challenge mode for a NPC to offer you a handicap debuff. Like Fractal instabilities, you will have various disadvantages piled on you based on certain conditions, enemies will put a bigger focus on killing you, and you will get additional xp/magic/gold find/gathering/map bonuses The bonus increases the higher level map you go.

In addition, if you go down or are defeated, you lose this effect, and must wait 15 minutes to reactivate it again

This will not increase the rewards from world bosses, in order to stop people from activating this buff and leeching off of other people. In addition the threshold for tag credit is increased as well.

This could work, but I don’t really see a point to it honestly.

It’s about choice. It’s not supposed to be meaningful to the map in general, because that would have adverse effects on other people, such as segregrating maps. That’s why I put in things to curtail abuses.

Now, I suppose someone will bring up that it’ll make open world mobs slightly harder since someone has a handicap, but lol.

Zaraki.5784:

But why a personal debuff instead of a completely different map instance for those who want to play on hard mode?

It takes server resources to have each instance up. Imagine the amount required if 100’s, if not 1,000’s, try to create their own instances.

Blaeys.3102:

In my opinion, adapting and leveraging this item -

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_World_Event_Schematic

would have been the perfect way to introduce difficult organized group content into guild wars 2. Extend it to include all world bosses and then make three versions of the trigger – one for the boss we have now, another for small guild groups and one for a blistering difficult version of the fight.

So, if a highly organized and talented guild group gets together and decides they want to do Shadow Behemoth, they:

• Go to Godlost Swamp
• Spend a minute or two getting on the same map instance (and pugging in people if needed)
• Use the “hardmode” schematic to trigger an open world version of that boss that offers a real challenge, new mechanics and unique loot.

This is an example of how they could have leveraged the existing game systems to incorporate difficult content into the game in a very unique and fun manner (using lvl 100+ fractals for instanced difficult content).

And, for those thinking “but I don’t want to be in a guild to have to do this,” – simple solution there as well. Just make these triggers available for purchase in the guild chapterhouse in LA by individuals. Then, pretty much any organized group, as long as one person has the trigger, could start the fight up.

That (or some other creative solution) is what difficult content should have looked like in this game. It wouldn’t have segmented the population, there would be no story continuity issues, it would have allowed for the quicker implementation of raid level difficulty fights throughout the game, it would have given guilds something more to do (without excluding small groups or guildless players) and it would have been fun.

This specific idea is terrible because it would force any casual players on that map who want to do this event to deal with more difficult mechanics that they weren’t ready for and may not even want to participate in. With world bosses there’s at least the inherent knowledge that you KNOW they are difficult, but if a random guild can at their leisure up the difficulty of the encounter, it can (and will) lead to griefing of more casual players, whether by preventing them from enjoying the battle, removing the possibility of gaining the rewards they want because the content has suddenly turned too difficult or something else that i’m not thinking of.

Open world pve was designed the way it is for a reason. It needs to stay that way too. If you want more difficult content, it exists in the form of fractals and raids. If you don’t enjoy those then you can artificially give yourself challenges by primarily using racial utility skills, wielding only one handed weapons and not dual wielding, making particularly weak builds etc. Difficult content exists and was designed specifically for those players, open world content exists and was designed specifically for more casual players. The ONLY suggestion that makes sense is an npc who makes you weaker via a specific debuff. That doesn’t (directly) impact other players who enjoy content more casually. So yeah, leave the open world as it is unless there’s some sort of specific debuff that only affects that individual player and no one else.

castlemanic.3198:

This specific idea is terrible because it would force any casual players on that map who want to do this event to deal with more difficult mechanics that they weren’t ready for and may not even want to participate in.

I think you’re overlooking a key point (probably because I forgot to bring it up), though. This would have absolutely ZERO impact on the currently scheduled boss appearances.

As it is now with Tequatl, Karka Queen and Triple Trouble (the only places you can use the current triggers), you cannot use the triggers within set time periods around the times the boss naturally appears (a good design that would need to be continued with the system I discuss).

It would be completely above and beyond what is there now – thus having no impact on the experience casual players currently enjoy. Furthermore, it would serve to ensure that at least a small organized force is there when the tougher fights are attempted, something that would benefit anyone in open world.

And, of course, it would make it significantly easier for players to experience all of these open world fights – even on days when their work or life schedule dictates when they are on to play. It would offer as much, if not more, to the casual player as it does to the hardcore (again, without splitting them into separate instances).

Blaeys.3102:

I think you’re overlooking a key point (probably because I forgot to bring it up), though. This would have absolutely ZERO impact on the currently scheduled boss appearances.

That’s not me overlooking a key point. That’s you never having brought it up. I can’t comment on what you don’t post or say, so the onus is on you for not saying it, not on me for not reading your mind.

As it is now with Tequatl, Karka Queen and Triple Trouble (the only places you can use the current triggers), you cannot use the triggers within set time periods around the times the boss naturally appears (a good design that would need to be continued with the system I discuss).

It would be completely above and beyond what is there now – thus having no impact on the experience casual players currently enjoy. Furthermore, it would serve to ensure that at least a small organized force is there when the tougher fights are attempted, something that would benefit anyone in open world.

And, of course, it would make it significantly easier for players to experience all of these open world fights – even on days when their work or life schedule dictates when they are on to play. It would offer as much, if not more, to the casual player as it does to the hardcore (again, without splitting them into separate instances).

How do triggers for more difficult content offer “as much, if not more” to casual players? The content is more difficult, by default it’s not as accessible to more casual players. If the triggers already exist for more difficult content, then those places are where anyone asking for hard mode maps should go. The content already exists.

Also, weren’t the karka queen and tequatl originally introduced as much more difficult content way after vanilla release, and tequatl was revamped (same with the shatterer)? That would mean reworks for other types of bosses too, and those resources could honestly go towards better things in my opinion. I mean, maybe there’s a space for them considering the reworks of tequatl and the shatterer, so there’s obviously value they attribute to more difficult open world pve content options, but at the same time it must have taken a lot of resources to do so, because we don’t see them putting much into reworking current bosses and in fact have seen them putting it into newer releases (HoT map meta events, the entirety of dragon’s stand and other examples i’m more than likely not familiar with) so that’s where I’d rather see development go. Also I imagine it’s much easier to create an entirely new map that has more difficult world bosses than it is to rework current boss battles, so players who desire an increased difficulty in open world maps may be incentivised to purchase future expansions to get that increased difficulty open world maps they so desire.

castlemanic.3198:

How do triggers for more difficult content offer “as much, if not more” to casual players? The content is more difficult, by default it’s not as accessible to more casual players. If the triggers already exist for more difficult content, then those places are where anyone asking for hard mode maps should go. The content already exists.

Also, weren’t the karka queen and tequatl originally introduced as much more difficult content way after vanilla release, and tequatl was revamped (same with the shatterer)? That would mean reworks for other types of bosses too, and those resources could honestly go towards better things in my opinion. I mean, maybe there’s a space for them considering the reworks of tequatl and the shatterer, so there’s obviously value they attribute to more difficult open world pve content options, but at the same time it must have taken a lot of resources to do so, because we don’t see them putting much into reworking current bosses and in fact have seen them putting it into newer releases (HoT map meta events, the entirety of dragon’s stand and other examples i’m more than likely not familiar with) so that’s where I’d rather see development go. Also I imagine it’s much easier to create an entirely new map that has more difficult world bosses than it is to rework current boss battles, so players who desire an increased difficulty in open world maps may be incentivised to purchase future expansions to get that increased difficulty open world maps they so desire.

Im not sure you understand how these triggers work now in the game. All I’m proposing is extending that functionality to all of the world bosses exactly as the triggers work now for TT, teq and KQ.

That then provides a basis for new triggers that groups could use based on their strength, organization and desired challenge.

The base concept however, would still be based around getting groups (primarily, but not limited to, guilds) to trigger all of the world bosses more often – with a side benefit that, should the group decide, they can try a harder (or possibly even easier for 5 player groups) versions of the fight.

Nothing is replaced. The current timers and boss spawns do not change AT ALL. It is solely above and beyond.

And we know this would work, because it works for KQ, Teq and TT now. Guilds triggering those bosses outside of the scheduled times has, to the best of my knowledge, never disrupted casual gameplay. If anything, it has added to it. Im simply proposing expanding that system – and then ADDING functionality that brings challenge into the game (without disrupting the rest of the game) only if groups chose to go the more challenging route.

Im not sure how that can be perceived as a negative in any way.

And to add, this was just a hypothetical. My original point is that there were better ways they could implement difficult content into the game than the way they did (raids). Maybe there are some flaws in this – Im sure Anet, if the put the same creativity they put into the base game – could come up with something better. Mine was just an example.