Guild Wars 2

There are already classes that have position of best whether it be healing, support, or damage and they tend to blow the others out of the water. Why prolong the inevitable with nonsense? The Warrior has a signet that heals him for more than three skills on the Engineer combined, the Elementalist spins circles around just about everything in just about every way and requires only a medium level of play skill, and Dragon Hunter (note: not guardian) is ridiculously better than the actual ranger who ironically turned out to be a furry loving Druid who heals things and can’t use a bow to save his life.

Please just admit it. You had your fun Anet, righting the stream, but let’s reel it back in and come home.

+1 because of your point about Ranger/Druid and DH.

If you want to shackle yourself to a rigid role then go right ahead and all power to you. You’ve given some examples to suit you. For those us who want to play how we want with whatever profession we want then all power to us. The system is already in place with varying degrees of success per profession. Seems win/win to me.

Edit. On second read you didn’t give any examples to suit you but I’ll still stand by most of my comment.

I think we have “gone Trinity” already, but nobody wants to admit it.

Form a raid group, and people will ask for a Chrono tank and a Druid healer. So, yes, I think we have a Trinity now.

Caveat: It is possible people mean something different than I do, so feel free to clarify what you mean by Trinity if you think my example doesn’t fit.

ekarat.1085:

Caveat: It is possible people mean something different than I do, so feel free to clarify what you mean by Trinity if you think my example doesn’t fit.

This is what I thought DGraves was getting at in his post. I thought it had become something of a reality in HoT. The next round of elites may change it again.

zenleto.6179:

ekarat.1085:

Caveat: It is possible people mean something different than I do, so feel free to clarify what you mean by Trinity if you think my example doesn’t fit.

This is what I thought DGraves was getting at in his post. I thought it had become something of a reality in HoT. The next round of elites may change it again.

I think that the druid elite is a healer version of the ranger. A different ranger elite might be better with a bow, but we’d still have the druid, which is mutually exclusive with the new elite. Eventually, all classes would have an elite for each role.

ekarat.1085:

zenleto.6179:

ekarat.1085:

Caveat: It is possible people mean something different than I do, so feel free to clarify what you mean by Trinity if you think my example doesn’t fit.

This is what I thought DGraves was getting at in his post. I thought it had become something of a reality in HoT. The next round of elites may change it again.

I think that the druid elite is a healer version of the ranger. A different ranger elite might be better with a bow, but we’d still have the druid, which is mutually exclusive with the new elite. Eventually, all classes would have an elite for each role.

Ah yeah, very true. I have to say I’m looking forward to what the future elites will bring for the game.

Trinity?
No.
No no no no no no no no.
No.
No thanks.

DGraves.3720:

There are already classes that have position of best whether it be healing, support, or damage and they tend to blow the others out of the water. Why prolong the inevitable with nonsense?

So you want every class except of Ele removed? ;-)

Ele has Top DPS
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Tempest_-_Staff_DPS_%28R%29
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Tempest_-_Fresh_Air_DPS_%28R%29

one of the best healings
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Tempest_-_Auramancer_Raid_Healer

and decent support.

To be serious, at the moment every class is useful in raids and many can fill more than one role.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Raid

The last thing we need is a trinity. There are different roles in a raid group and for each of these roles are different possible classes/builds to fill them. This flexibility is one of the big pros of GW2, why should we remove it?

Ok, who else here thought this thread would be about getting to Ft Trinity?

Menadena.7482:

Ok, who else here thought this thread would be about getting to Ft Trinity?

/driving through sparkfly fen

are we there yettttt

If you want to shackle yourself to a rigid role then go right ahead and all power to you.

Isnt this already the case ?
Some class have to be spec condi to be accepted in raid, rangers have to be healer druid, chrono have to be tank etc …

It would be more sane if all classes could be clearly specialized in each role. i.e for guardian, zeal = direct damage, radiance = condi, valor = tank, honor = heal (and virtues becoming an “elite spec” that can be switched with DH). In fact what I wrote is already a bit the case but as the trinity is unofficial Anet dont search to balance honor guardian with druid, so the healer guardian cannot truly exist in competitive content.

So if would be a holy quatuor (not trinity).

Same for each classes, so you would no longer have to search a druid for your raid if you want a healer but a honor guardian/DH, a nature magic ranger/druid, a water ele/tempest, a blood magic necro/reaper, a tactics warrior/berserk, a shadow art thief/DD, an invention engie/scrapper or a salvation revenant/herald.

And we would have more choices than today concerning the build because each classes would have 4 style of gameplay and accepted in competitive content.

Scipion.7548:

Isnt this already the case ?
Some class have to be spec condi to be accepted in raid, rangers have to be healer druid, chrono have to be tank etc …

No

Ranger can be DPS
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Druid_-_A/T_Condition

Chrono can be Utility DPS
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Chronomancer_-_Utility_DPS_%28R%29

Ok maybe this it wasnt the best example, but those classes have just 2 roles, compared to 4 if a clear holy quatuor power/condi/tank/healer was established.

How many roles an engie can perform in raid today ? a necro ? a guardian ? a rev ? a warrior ? a thief ?

There are different roles in a raid group and for each of these roles are different possible classes/builds to fill them.

You said this because you want “trinity”. But trinity (or quatuor if we add condi) isnt exactly that ?

Sorry but healers in raid don’t heal everything out. If your group does not use self-heal there will be a lot of downed people. By the way this is exactly why the best times are achieved by zerk healers although healing power scales a bit better with druid or tempest.
If you look at toughness tank, the build are most of the time hybrid (support, condi, bruiser) so again there is no strong trinity here. And last, chrono is a support / DPS hybrid (well a lot of support and few dps).
The state of the game right now, has better class at better jobs and hopefully the next espec will give other roles like a real dps role for mesmer, a good healing ability for war (which has already a strong mandatory support/dps role)…..

The only sad thing (but it is another discussion ) is that Espec (save scrapper and maybe DH) made their class better in every aspect (Tempest is best for support, heal, dps range, melee and condi… maybe tank as well). They should have boosted the former traitline 5 and made it a Espec as well.

Scipion.7548:

Ok maybe this it wasnt the best example, but those classes have just 2 roles, compared to 4 if a clear holy quatuor power/condi/tank/healer was established.

If all classes are equal, why different classes?
At the moment all classes have their own strength and weaknesses, which makes it interesting to play different classes.

Scipion.7548:

How many roles an engie can perform in raid today ? a necro ? a guardian ? a rev ? a warrior ? a thief ?

If you don’t make all classes exactly the same their will always be one class which is a bit better in a role than the others.

At the moment many classes can play different roles. Some are a bit better but that doesn’t matter much because the most important point is the group setup. You can compensate class weaknesses with other classes strength. If every class is nearly identical and don’t have strength and weaknesses the group setup will be very strict because every role has one optimal class and there is no need to use something other than the optimal class for the role.

IN all honesty, please DO NOT A-NET

I liked you be4, do not turn to be zerging Trinity boring content where you lose more players because they do it for no reason like zombies…..

The idea behind trinity is to limit players to which role they want to play, as it is set atm, the roles are still a bit different, used to be all out zerker, but so many was included that it was tolerable.

I am ele/thief so no matter what they do at least 1 of my chars will be viable, but still…..
It would simply change the game based on “We want an explore game” to a “we want ppl to grind all day long”

Scipion.7548:

Ok maybe this it wasnt the best example, but those classes have just 2 roles, compared to 4 if a clear holy quatuor power/condi/tank/healer was established.

How many roles an engie can perform in raid today ? a necro ? a guardian ? a rev ? a warrior ? a thief ?

There are different roles in a raid group and for each of these roles are different possible classes/builds to fill them.

You said this because you want “trinity”. But trinity (or quatuor if we add condi) isnt exactly that ?

You are right that the the game need more build. We should be able to bring a Mesmer without being the chronomancer, we should be able to bring a power engineer, etc.

That said, the community itself limit itself. The community usually view build as either meta or garbage. A bunch of great build just get kicked out of raid even if they are more than potent enough for the fight.

You also have the problem of no personnal dps meter. I hear rumour about 24K condi thief build, but it’ hard to find out test about it, so is it true or false? Do we really don’t bring condi Thief just because we don’t have enough information about it or is it really bad dps? We did the same thing with guardian, seeing it as a average dps for the first few month of the raid before some guild started to test thing out and post video about it. But it’s a challenging task to do those test since we have zero way of showing the dps except with long math or 3rd party dps meter that isn’t always accurate and a lot of people fear to use.

That said, a diversity of build problem isn’t the same as the limitation impose by a rigid trinity. In a trinity game, you need to have tank, healer and dps. In GW2 you don’t have that limitation. You can bring 1 zealot druid as a healer, or 2 zerker Druid or 2 Viper Druid. You can have bosses likes sabetha or slothazor or matthias that doesn’t have a tank at all. The difference is also that raid is an content for organized group. It’s ok that you NEED to have a tank and a healer for certain boss because it’s an organized group, it’s new content and it’s 10 man.

I don’t want to need a tank and a healer in 5 man fractal. Right now I can do a fractal with any of my friend, with any composition, and I don’t have problem finding pugs because anyone can join. I don’t want to leave my guardian being, and craft put infusion into my druid because we need a healer in fractal and imagine the mess if we suddenly need healer and tank in a open world content?

Dont forget Control.

Exclusive trinity stunts creative problem solving and diverse group dynamics.

If people gravitate towards the trinity, that’s their choice… and having choice is always a good thing.

~EW

It would be nice if all classes can finally fill a broad palette of tasks. But there are some things that have to be done first.

We need more elite specialisation, that close the gaps many classes still have. Currently a Mesmer or Necromancer can not compete with a Druid in regard to HPS. Ther are more gaps to fill.

I addition we need a better way to change stats, runes and sigils out of combat. Ascended items should have at least three slot for sigils , runes and stat combos. where you can place what you like and switch between them freely. the current solution with the mystic forge is as clunky and annoying as the discontinued system with trainers for changing traits.

At the end I can see a system where each class can fill each role during a certain encounter with the needed focus and the class-specific flair. You could easily switch roles and tasks between encounters: DPS, HPS, CC, protection, support etc in every weighting and combination.

Over 3 years and people do not realize “no Trinity” doesn’t mean “No roles”.

In Gw2 it means that no player is fixed in a role because they picked a profession over another.

What we need is a way to unlock upgrades and stats so they can be switched and so we can have a decent template system (without switching stats and upgrades templates would be mostly useless because of how much combat and game mechanics rely on stats and upgrades), as people would have to still carry around tons of gear and switch it around anyways.

Once we have that, we can focus on adding elite specializations to each profession that makes them a bit better at a role. For example, professions that are usually more offensive like warrior or mesmer could get specializations more centered on support a-la Druid with rangers, like “Tactician” or “Minstrel”.

Then the combination of better focus roles and templates would allow people switching roles and trying out different layouts more and have more fun.

The reason I started and continue to play this game is because it lacked a trinity. Raids are changing that perception quickly, and I absolutely have my fears for the future.

If things become solely role/class-specific I will gladly jump ship.

DeceiverX.8361:

The reason I started and continue to play this game is because it lacked a trinity. Raids are changing that perception quickly, and I absolutely have my fears for the future.

If things become solely role/class-specific I will gladly jump ship.

Their where always roles in GW2. In PvE the only role needed was DPS, Raids changed that a little bit. The other Game-Modes (PvP and WvW) always had more roles like bunker for PvP or Frontline / Backline for WvW.

ekarat.1085:

I think we have “gone Trinity” already, but nobody wants to admit it.

Form a raid group, and people will ask for a Chrono tank and a Druid healer. So, yes, I think we have a Trinity now.

Caveat: It is possible people mean something different than I do, so feel free to clarify what you mean by Trinity if you think my example doesn’t fit.

GW2 doesn’t have a hard trinity, the content CAN be done without the tank and healer. We’ve seen it done in wing 1 and I haven’t been paying attention but probably parts of wing 2.

And the game should never have a hard trinity in my opinion.

Response to opening post:

No. Part of what made Guild Wars 2 great is that there was no reliance on the “holy trinity”.

I would have to say I’m with the others sharing the sentiment of “no trinity”. While my main class was a ranger and I was disappointed to get a healing elite spec the beauty of this game is there is something for everyone. Players imposing their own guidelines in raids is to be expected as the “trinity” concept is heavily ingrained on players. And that’s great, more power to them. There is nothing stopping anyone from gathering up 9 others and going at it as they please.

I also think the OP’s statement about rangers isn’t accurate, it is my main class and the one I use to get through all of the content, I have never felt like I was being outclassed by anyone. They’re just using different skills but we both get the job done in our own way.

MrGhosty.4296:

There is nothing stopping anyone from gathering up 9 others and going at it as they please.

This is not true anymore. If you take all your friends in Nomad’s armor you cannot raid and do you know why? Timers. There is in fact something stopping you and 9 others from playing as you see fit even if how you see fit is totally defensive in Nomad’s ascended armor.

The game does have dev-side requirements now. If you wanted to take your Nomad’s party to Fractal 100 or Arah Path 2, go ahead, you can be in there until night and day merge into one but it’s just as well. Can’t do that in Raids. Inefficient play, no matter how well you manage to survive, still results in a loss which is where this emerging growth is coming from.

When a game uses artificial pressure to get you to do something a trinity is born; in other games the pressure is choosing the class, in some it’s wielding a type of weapon, in GW2 (and other action hybrid games) it’s [dev-side] efficiency, and in others still you have gates like abilities or rewards.

To be clear player-side and dev-side efficiency are not the same thing. Player side is “ZERKER META!” while dev-side is “RAGE TIMERS”. If you play Nomad’s in the zerker meta no one will like you but you can still play. If you play Nomad’s in a rage timer zone no one will like you and you cannot actually win.

We already have trinity, except ours is support/damage/CC.

And given the choice between traditional trinity and current model I’ll go with traditional trinity. Traditional trinity allows interesting group content that goes beyond 101 variations on colored circle mechanic.

The reason people hate trinity is because of all the bad stigma that was born of poorly done trinity (blaming WoW for most of this)

Playing SWTOR during the 2.x era made me realize how dynamic and interesting trinity can be if executed properly and not taken to the ridiculous extremes that WoW did.

Frankly i think people who start these threads beating this dead horse along with those that start ones about DPS meters should have their posting permissions removed. Start searching and you’ll find everything that can be argued has been. This game will not ever have a true trinity now should it ever and that is that. Been that way since day one so not sure why you bought it in the first place.

MrGhosty.4296:

I would have to say I’m with the others sharing the sentiment of “no trinity”. While my main class was a ranger and I was disappointed to get a healing elite spec the beauty of this game is there is something for everyone. Players imposing their own guidelines in raids is to be expected as the “trinity” concept is heavily ingrained on players. And that’s great, more power to them. There is nothing stopping anyone from gathering up 9 others and going at it as they please.

The problem with not having some form of trinity/role system is that it’s effectively impossible to make dynamic mechanics let alone any measure of difficulty.

If a developer can’t count on a group having tanks then they cannot have any agro based mechanics
If a developer can’t count on a group having dedicated DPS then the developer can’t have any mechanics requiring DPS.
If a developer can’t count on a group having healing then the developer can’t have any mechanics deal substantial damage.

And once you take the above out the only mechanics left that a dev can really do is “don’t stand in red circles”

DGraves.3720:

This is not true anymore. If you take all your friends in Nomad’s armor you cannot raid and do you know why? Timers.

If you take all your friends in Exotics to Level 100 Fractal you cannot win and do you know why? Agony.

DGraves.3720:

The game does have dev-side requirements now.

The game had always dev-side requirements like appropiate gear.

DGraves.3720:

If you wanted to take your Nomad’s party to Fractal 100 or Arah Path 2, go ahead

If you want to take your Exotics party to raids, go ahead

The problem with the ‘trinity’ is that it cuts off a few roles that have been discovered. There are four roles in most parties – Controller, Striker, Defender, and Supporter. And everyone can contribute to all roles, but not equally.

It’s 2016 right? Not the 1990s? Why would you downgrade to something outdated?

1. Switch to “hard” trinity (bleed the requirement from 1 optional game mode to all others)
2. Watch your game shift from “unique” to “umpteenth copy of the same old”
3. Read player comments on how other games that have been designed with this concept from the start are doing it better
4. See player figures fade
5. Switch off servers, since you have just nuked yourself out of business.

Halvorn.9831:

1. Switch to “hard” trinity (bleed the requirement from 1 optional game mode to all others)
2. Watch your game shift from “unique” to “umpteenth copy of the same old”
3. Read player comments on how other games that have been designed with this concept from the start are doing it better
4. See player figures fade
5. Switch off servers, since you have just nuked yourself out of business.

OR….they could do this and make the game like GW1 again and possibly win everyone back.

1. change nothing about the current classes, but add monk
2. collect the endless praise from all of us monk primary players from GW1
3. realize it changes nothing about how the game currently is played (cause we already have tank/dps/heals)
4. read more comments from people noting that the Trinity already exists in GW2, but people thanking them nonetheless for re-adding monks
5. ignore the few people who think one Trinity (already in the game) will lead to another event (coincidentally named Trinity…see link below)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_

Monk was the only thing I disliked about GW1 though.

Ubi.4136:

OR….they could do this and make the game like GW1 again and possibly win everyone back.

I cannot tell you in words how much I love the fact that this game is exactly NOT like GW1.

Other than raid content, there is no necessity for ANet to consider a sweeping introduction of the traditional Trinity system to the game … other than to waste time, money etc…

Even within Raids, what we have is sufficient. Besides, don’t assume more traditional trinity roles won’t get rolled out with other elite specs on other professions, expansions and future content.

This thread reads like the LoL community.
I play LoL (League of Legends) since 2010. And back then, there was no meta. Then people abide the meta and get sick of it more and more. But instead of not putting those limits onto themselves, they complain in the forums, as if the game forces you somehow. (It does in certain modes; do not play them).

Shylock.4653:

DGraves.3720:

This is not true anymore. If you take all your friends in Nomad’s armor you cannot raid and do you know why? Timers.

If you take all your friends in Exotics to Level 100 Fractal you cannot win and do you know why? Agony.

Going into a Raid in Nomad’s and dying to a timer going off is not equivalent to going into Fractals and refusing to wear Agony Resistance.

(It does in certain modes; do not play them).

Content Gate. You don’t do Raids? No Legendary Armor.

This thread actually wasn’t about Raids. Weird. It was genuinely about the fact that Elementalists are amazing, Warriors heal better than Healing Power Engineers, and Rangers are “meh” with traps compared to their Dragon Hunter overlords.

DGraves.3720:

Going into a Raid in Nomad’s and dying to a timer going off is not equivalent to going into Fractals and refusing to wear Agony Resistance.

Timers are neither new to GW2. Guild Missions like Blightwater Shatterstrike had timers. Events like the Breach had a timers.

DGraves.3720:

Shylock.4653:

DGraves.3720:

This is not true anymore. If you take all your friends in Nomad’s armor you cannot raid and do you know why? Timers.

If you take all your friends in Exotics to Level 100 Fractal you cannot win and do you know why? Agony.

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

This is actually player-side. There are two things that make something “player-side”:

1. The player must know the rules of the game and they must be open, obvious, and easy to understand.

2. The player must be provided all necessarily elements for success in the game.

Fractals meets these requirements. You receive ascended items as well as a way to purchase ascended items as you play the mode. You receive agony infusions. The choice to disregard the rules is not developer-side so if you chose to do Fractal 20 in Exotics and died to agony that’s as much your fault as fractal 100. You could also do fractal 100 with only one ascended item provided you wanted to craft the infusion, so there’s no direct interference so long as you meet the minimum requirements. Furthermore Nomad’s can be ascended armor therefore player choice is not infringed upon if choosing the nomenclature which is not the same as developer-side behavior.

Now if you had to have a Legendary weapon, which obviously doesn’t just get pooped out of Fractals, to survive this would be accurately developer-side.

If you want to take your Exotics party to raids, go ahead

This is where it becomes different. Ironically you brought up one of the oldest dev-side elements in gaming, gear tier. When we as players choose our nomenclature we decide where the points go but we never decide how many points we get. To be clear if put on an exotic tri-stat glove I will get 45 in my major stat, if I put on an ascended tri-stat I will get 47. Whether it’s Vitality or Power the result is exactly the same. To further expand on this you also don’t have an option as to what stats are where; there are no Ferocity major items even though Ferocity major is the literal best damage you can get. Why is that? Because it’s dev-side; you are given an array of options to choose from but cannot actually design your own.

So gear tier is not actually player-side at all. You could technically do Raids in whites if you wanted to, so long as you beat the timer, which is also not player-side because it isn’t player-set, player-adjusted, and there obviously is nothing that allows for manipulation by the player.

Going into a Raid in Nomad’s and dying to a timer going off is not equivalent to going into Fractals and refusing to wear Agony Resistance.

(It does in certain modes; do not play them).

Content Gate. You don’t do Raids? No Legendary Armor.

This thread actually wasn’t about Raids. Weird. It was genuinely about the fact that Elementalists are amazing, Warriors heal better than Healing Power Engineers, and Rangers are “meh” with traps compared to their Dragon Hunter overlords.

Hold on … that’s not a content ‘gate’ because you don’t need Legendary armor to unlock or progress anywhere, nor do you need more trinity professions to complete raids to unlock whatever gate you perceive exists. That implied argument holds no water.

DGraves.3720:

This thread actually wasn’t about Raids. Weird. It was genuinely about the fact that Elementalists are amazing, Warriors heal better than Healing Power Engineers, and Rangers are “meh” with traps compared to their Dragon Hunter overlords.

That sounds more like a balance discussion than a plea to change the game to a different paradigm.

Shylock.4653:

DGraves.3720:

Going into a Raid in Nomad’s and dying to a timer going off is not equivalent to going into Fractals and refusing to wear Agony Resistance.

Timers are neither new to GW2. Guild Missions like Blightwater Shatterstrike had timers. Events like the Breach had a timers.

Both aren’t really comparable content designs. Timers aren’t the problem. Hence why this isn’t about Raids. Person said “gather 9 others and play as you choose”, isn’t true, that’s all.

Obtena.7952:

Hold on … that’s not a content ‘gate’ because you don’t need Legendary armor to unlock or progress anywhere, nor do you need more trinity professions to complete raids to unlock whatever gate you perceive exists. That implied argument holds no water.

Legendary Armor is content. It is a specific type of quest.

I didn’t say it wasn’t content. There is no justification to introduce trinity at this point for the game in general, so whatever argument you have related to Legendary armor being content, a gate or gates to a content or contents to a gate, doesn’t matter.

Frankly, I don’t see how you have decided that trinity is going to fix the things you’re talking about in your post either. DH is better than ranger? OK, adding universal trinity roles in the game doesn’t change that. Balance changes do though.

Obtena.7952:

I didn’t say it wasn’t content. There is no justification to introduce trinity at this point for the game in general, so whatever argument you have related to Legendary armor being content, a gate or gates to a content or contents to a gate, doesn’t matter.

I am just saying that’s what makes it a Content Gate. I wasn’t using that as justification for anything.

Frankly, I don’t see how you have decided that trinity is going to fix the things you’re talking about in your post either. DH is better than ranger? OK, adding universal trinity roles in the game doesn’t change that. Balance changes do though.

Well I was slightly joking.

The Elite professions definitely created a Trinity feel but the comments about Ele being the best and DH > Ranger are just talking about the general nature of the state of the game. I am poking fun at the idea simply because the game is not only heading that way but introducing content that specifically supports this and for all rights and purposes balances are so long overdue that it’s silly.

I am still upset that Warrior’s signet actually does heal for more than all the Engineer specific heals combined.

The so-called Holy Trinity exists only because it wasn’t possible to offer more complicated foe AI or nuanced combat. It’s existed only because hardly any developers have asked, “why do we still use this holdover from porting pencil & paper RPG to computers?”

Gaming communities are always going to outgrow games faster than devs can evolve the mechanics, so it’s no surprise that we’ve gotten deft at exploiting the weaknesses in GW2’s combat system. Returning to the older modes isn’t going to change that, it will just create different weaknesses and bring back all the issues that go with the Holy Trinity.

So, sure, it would be great if ANet figured out how to alter skills (of NPCs as well as PCs) so that DPS wasn’t the first, second, and third most important consideration in builds. That, however, is not a trivial effort and, worse, once we play whatever-that-is for two years, we’ll figure out how to trivialize all but the most challenging fights and ANet will have to do it again.

tl;dr the problem isn’t trinity or even zerker/DPS meta — we are the problem; we evolve much more quickly than the game ever will.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

tl;dr the problem isn’t trinity or even zerker/DPS meta — we are the problem; we evolve much more quickly than the game ever will.

I disagree. If this were the case we would all be Chess Grandmasters. I contest it is the opposite; human mastery is based entirely on choice and specifically the weight of that choice. We do not outgrow the game so much as we note it’s ease. The difference between Chess and GW2 is that Chess requires you to think and GW2 requires you to press 1.

As a person who creates puzzles if you want to keep people entertained you need to give them something to figure out. The best and easiest way to do this is to put weight behind their decisions. Make the trait lines matter, a lot, and give them themes towards a playstyle that is heavy and truly embraces that role. Make the runes not dedicated to weird stat fixations. Actually make stats less important.

The puzzle is solved when you just reduce it to basic math. The puzzle is interesting when your choices are effects rather than numbers, when taking a specific route means more than +10% power. There are games which are terribly simple (Dungeons of Dredmore comes to mind now, must play <3) but still require full attention and not a lot of tweaks to increase difficulty.