Guild Wars 2

Leo G.4501:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Leo G.4501:

One feature of hard core mode would be randomly generated builds (or at least a certain build in a list that is then randomly chosen for you) that it locks you into for the duration of the challenge.

I think part of why people feel the game is too easy is because they always take the path of least resistance. Sometimes you just have to do unorthodox stuff. Yeah it’s not “hard” but it can be fun to make a build work and do what you want it to do.

So you are saying:

• we should be locked into predetermined RNG selected builds ( which would likely not be tailored to the content at hand)

• people find it too easy because they have tailored their build to the content at hand ( path of least resistance)

• its fun to tweak builds to fit the content at hand.
• it’s fun to make the rest of your party tweak their builds to fit around your build ( because you refuse to adapt), and the content at hand? <— This description may fit better.

Am I understanding you correctly?

I guess if you want to get all serious and snippity, you can think of it how you want. People need to remember this is a game. One way to make a game tough is to change the rules. Which would you rather have:

• the devs change the rules of the whole game so you can’t tailor your build to obliterate every encounter.

• the devs introduce challenges which cause you to play within certain criteria.

Think of examples that already exist:
- the games they introduce that give you specific skills to use during it
- costume brawls
- PvP to a limited extent cause you to use a specific amount of gear stats

I’m just taking things to a typical conclusion but rather than put you in a dungeon or map where you have to use a set of unfamiliar skills, you’ll be using your same profession skills and traits.

please….. there are enough gimmicks and gambits in the game already. we dont need more of them.

no reason to turn this game into clown wars 2.

NoTrigger.8396:

Please….. There are enough gimmicks and gambits in the game already. We don’t need more of them.

Agreed. When I play a character, I want to use his skills and gear, not get shut out by arbitrary tools and gimmicks. (Looking at you Ghostbusters Catacombs and every transformation skill ever.)

I don’t consider that a challenge; I consider that a nuisance.

Darksyze, I don’t think I understood what you were trying to say.

Are you saying that a hardmode would make it EXTRA hard for some classes while not so hard in comparison for other classes?

Leo G.4501:

One feature of hard core mode would be randomly generated builds (or at least a certain build in a list that is then randomly chosen for you) that it locks you into for the duration of the challenge.

I think part of why people feel the game is too easy is because they always take the path of least resistance. Sometimes you just have to do unorthodox stuff. Yeah it’s not “hard” but it can be fun to make a build work and do what you want it to do.

I like that idea. But I think such an idea would be best implemented as being optional. I hope that goes without saying.

As for you guys who are TOTALLY against Leo`s proposed idea of having a “MODE” (not a permanent change to the WHOLE GAME – FOREEEEEVER)… a MODE that allows players to enter a dungeon where the game appoints each player with a randomised ROLE, I think you’re being a little bit too negative. Maybe you don’t like that idea… NEWS FLASH, No body is surprised that YOU, as a person might not like some such idea. Not everybody likes the same stuff, and the KEY factor to keep in mind is that this would simply be a dungeon “MODE”. That means that you can (as a group) choose whether or not you want to enter the dungeon using that play-option.

Playing a dungeon where each time you enter you’re given a randomly generated talent set would actually be very popular, on account of the fact that people would PREFER something different, something new, Each and every time they enter a dungeon.

If you are collecting certain tokens, then you might like this idea. You might not. You might not really care.

Notorious Dog.1043:

Darksyze, I don’t think I understood what you were trying to say.

Are you saying that a hardmode would make it EXTRA hard for some classes?

Leo G.4501:

One feature of hard core mode would be randomly generated builds (or at least a certain build in a list that is then randomly chosen for you) that it locks you into for the duration of the challenge.

I think part of why people feel the game is too easy is because they always take the path of least resistance. Sometimes you just have to do unorthodox stuff. Yeah it’s not “hard” but it can be fun to make a build work and do what you want it to do.

I like that idea. But I think such an idea would be best implemented as being optional. I hope that goes without saying.

As for you guys who are TOTALLY against Leo`s proposed idea of having a “MODE” (not a permanent change to the WHOLE GAME – FOREEEEEVER)… a MODE that allows players to enter a dungeon where the game appoints each player with a randomised ROLE, I think you’re being a little bit too negative. Maybe you don’t like that idea… NEWS FLASH, No body is surprised that YOU, as a person might not like some such idea. Not everybody likes the same stuff, and the KEY factor to keep in mind is that this would simply be a dungeon “MODE”. That means that you can (as a group) choose whether or not you want to enter the dungeon using that play-option.

So, if I don’t like the random role I will go out of the dungeon to get another one? Put the group under the whole trouble of disbanding and then reinviting everyone repeatedly until they get the roles that WORK? “Random” roles when you enter a dungeon is never going to happen because it’s not going to work. It’s hardly a challenge, more like an annoyance.

maddoctor.2738:

Notorious Dog.1043:

Darksyze, I don’t think I understood what you were trying to say.

Are you saying that a hardmode would make it EXTRA hard for some classes?

Leo G.4501:

One feature of hard core mode would be randomly generated builds (or at least a certain build in a list that is then randomly chosen for you) that it locks you into for the duration of the challenge.

I think part of why people feel the game is too easy is because they always take the path of least resistance. Sometimes you just have to do unorthodox stuff. Yeah it’s not “hard” but it can be fun to make a build work and do what you want it to do.

I like that idea. But I think such an idea would be best implemented as being optional. I hope that goes without saying.

As for you guys who are TOTALLY against Leo`s proposed idea of having a “MODE” (not a permanent change to the WHOLE GAME – FOREEEEEVER)… a MODE that allows players to enter a dungeon where the game appoints each player with a randomised ROLE, I think you’re being a little bit too negative. Maybe you don’t like that idea… NEWS FLASH, No body is surprised that YOU, as a person might not like some such idea. Not everybody likes the same stuff, and the KEY factor to keep in mind is that this would simply be a dungeon “MODE”. That means that you can (as a group) choose whether or not you want to enter the dungeon using that play-option.

So, if I don’t like the random role I will go out of the dungeon to get another one? Put the group under the whole trouble of disbanding and then reinviting everyone repeatedly until they get the roles that WORK? “Random” roles when you enter a dungeon is never going to happen because it’s not going to work. It’s hardly a challenge, more like an annoyance.

i agree, a random role is pointless and foolish. They can however have some predetermined stat sets, and semi random drops that you can use to better adapt during the instance.

maddoctor.2738:

Notorious Dog.1043:

Darksyze, I don’t think I understood what you were trying to say.

Are you saying that a hardmode would make it EXTRA hard for some classes ?

Leo G.4501:

One feature of hard core mode would be randomly generated builds (or at least a certain build in a list that is then randomly chosen for you) that it locks you into for the duration of the challenge.

I think part of why people feel the game is too easy is because they always take the path of least resistance. Sometimes you just have to do unorthodox stuff. Yeah it’s not “hard” but it can be fun to make a build work and do what you want it to do.

I like that idea. But I think such an idea would be best implemented as being optional. I hope that goes without saying.

As for you guys who are TOTALLY against Leo`s proposed idea of having a “MODE” (not a permanent change to the WHOLE GAME – FOREEEEEVER)… a MODE that allows players to enter a dungeon where the game appoints each player with a randomised ROLE, I think you’re being a little bit too negative. Maybe you don’t like that idea… NEWS FLASH, No body is surprised that YOU, as a person might not like some such idea. Not everybody likes the same stuff, and the KEY factor to keep in mind is that this would simply be a dungeon “MODE”. That means that you can (as a group) choose whether or not you want to enter the dungeon using that play-option.

So, if I don’t like the random role I will go out of the dungeon to get another one? Put the group under the whole trouble of disbanding and then reinviting everyone repeatedly until they get the roles that WORK? “Random” roles when you enter a dungeon is never going to happen because it’s not going to work. It’s hardly a challenge, more like an annoyance.

Yes.

maddoctor.2738:

It’s good for things like Adventures, challenging little content with their own leaderboards, making sure there is lots of competition there, but I’m not a fan of making people stay in new/random builds while doing dungeons or exploring the world, that’s a horrible idea.

So predefined builds for specific content types / instances is good, specific builds for anything else is not, randomized builds is the worst and I find no reason (or benefit) on RNG builds.

Yes, I never really specified what the content would actually be, I just said “give a random predetermined build for the duration of the challenge”. And I was proposing it as just a part of a hardmode. To me, there are a lot of things people find easy that others find extremely difficult or vise versa, so I think if a true challenge mode type content were implemented, it should be varied with more than a specific type of challenge to it. I’d hope there’d be challenge modes where mob skills are altered, randomized or sharpened as well as criteria the player themselves must fulfill.

NoTrigger.8396:

please….. there are enough gimmicks and gambits in the game already. we dont need more of them.

no reason to turn this game into clown wars 2.

Am I suppose to take you seriously?

Rauderi.8706:

Agreed. When I play a character, I want to use his skills and gear, not get shut out by arbitrary tools and gimmicks. (Looking at you Ghostbusters Catacombs and every transformation skill ever.)

I don’t consider that a challenge; I consider that a nuisance.

Hogwash.

Heck, a majority of the playerbase don’t even play their own build, just someone else’s they copied then farmed for the pieces.

Also, every skill, trait and armor slot is a part of your character’s profession. Are you saying their identity is intrinsically linked to how you yourself assembled its gear, traits and skills? Because I’d find that hard to swallow as well since most players that actually want challenge are often constantly changing and swapping skills for the situation.

The point of the rule of the game is, that often makes lots of the game more trivial (maybe not “easy”, per-say but there are things you can do with swaps that are too advantageous) so limiting these things as a form of handicap but to a skewed degree.

maddoctor.2738:

So, if I don’t like the random role I will go out of the dungeon to get another one? Put the group under the whole trouble of disbanding and then reinviting everyone repeatedly until they get the roles that WORK? “Random” roles when you enter a dungeon is never going to happen because it’s not going to work. It’s hardly a challenge, more like an annoyance.

Sure, people cheese dungeons now so who cares?

But I never mentioned roles. If anything, the idea would encourage players to find roles with whatever they got rolled and since the group as a whole would likely be doing a similar thing…

phys.7689:

i agree, a random role is pointless and foolish. They can however have some predetermined stat sets, and semi random drops that you can use to better adapt during the instance.

That’s also another idea! Perhaps throughout the challenge, you earn things that allow you to slightly alter what you get rolled or improve it to perform better for specific parts of the challenge.

maddoctor.2738:

Notorious Dog.1043:

Darksyze, I don’t think I understood what you were trying to say.

Are you saying that a hardmode would make it EXTRA hard for some classes?

Leo G.4501:

One feature of hard core mode would be randomly generated builds (or at least a certain build in a list that is then randomly chosen for you) that it locks you into for the duration of the challenge.

I think part of why people feel the game is too easy is because they always take the path of least resistance. Sometimes you just have to do unorthodox stuff. Yeah it’s not “hard” but it can be fun to make a build work and do what you want it to do.

I like that idea. But I think such an idea would be best implemented as being optional. I hope that goes without saying.

As for you guys who are TOTALLY against Leo`s proposed idea of having a “MODE” (not a permanent change to the WHOLE GAME – FOREEEEEVER)… a MODE that allows players to enter a dungeon where the game appoints each player with a randomised ROLE, I think you’re being a little bit too negative. Maybe you don’t like that idea… NEWS FLASH, No body is surprised that YOU, as a person might not like some such idea. Not everybody likes the same stuff, and the KEY factor to keep in mind is that this would simply be a dungeon “MODE”. That means that you can (as a group) choose whether or not you want to enter the dungeon using that play-option.

So, if I don’t like the random role I will go out of the dungeon to get another one? Put the group under the whole trouble of disbanding and then reinviting everyone repeatedly until they get the roles that WORK? “Random” roles when you enter a dungeon is never going to happen because it’s not going to work. It’s hardly a challenge, more like an annoyance.

Mate, if you don’t like the role you’re given, you will wipe away your tears and button up and just do as is the intention of the random role mode, PLAY a random role!
Seriously, don’t you know any better than this? If life gives you lemons, make lemonade.

Why should there be any roles that “DON’T work”? Man, it seems like you’re just inventing problems that would not exist if someone was to create this and actually put some THOUGHT into it.

Nothing you said actually justifies the belief that this would not work. Also, please tell me, why exactly would something like this be annoying for you? That interests me a lot.

ArenaNet already attempted random roles.

Codex Arena was practically dead within a few months. Proof that players don’t really like being forced into limited build customization.

Makes one wonder why they have so little build customization in GW2.

Leo G.4501:

NoTrigger.8396:

please….. there are enough gimmicks and gambits in the game already. we dont need more of them.

no reason to turn this game into clown wars 2.

Am I suppose to take you seriously?

i dont think anyone who wants more gimmicks and gambits has thought about the idea for longer than a few seconds.

NoTrigger.8396:

Leo G.4501:

NoTrigger.8396:

please….. there are enough gimmicks and gambits in the game already. we dont need more of them.

no reason to turn this game into clown wars 2.

Am I suppose to take you seriously?

i dont think anyone who wants more gimmicks and gambits has thought about the idea for longer than a few seconds.

Says the guy with no good ideas under his belt.

Sure it will happen, challenge has always been the focus.

I don’t think this game needs a hard mode. It is not too easy. It is a tiny but very voicy minority that wants hard modes. The majority of players still has problems even surviving in simple situations. And no, ANet should not focus on a minority just because it complains loudly. Where they introduced more challenging content it is underused, since nobody really wants it.

I’d rather see ANet focus on something different. What this game really needs is a better education of how you fight and survive and take responsibility for your actions rather than relying on those around you to rezz you and carry you.

If that is done we can talk about raising the difficulty bar. Because we have raised the abilities of the average players. We are far away from that though.

If you think this game is too easy, can you find me in game and beat the centaur boss for the ‘Wicked Rodeo’ achievement? I’m serious. I can’t beat it.

Notorious Dog.1043:

maddoctor.2738:

Notorious Dog.1043:

Darksyze, I don’t think I understood what you were trying to say.

Are you saying that a hardmode would make it EXTRA hard for some classes?

Leo G.4501:

One feature of hard core mode would be randomly generated builds (or at least a certain build in a list that is then randomly chosen for you) that it locks you into for the duration of the challenge.

I think part of why people feel the game is too easy is because they always take the path of least resistance. Sometimes you just have to do unorthodox stuff. Yeah it’s not “hard” but it can be fun to make a build work and do what you want it to do.

I like that idea. But I think such an idea would be best implemented as being optional. I hope that goes without saying.

As for you guys who are TOTALLY against Leo`s proposed idea of having a “MODE” (not a permanent change to the WHOLE GAME – FOREEEEEVER)… a MODE that allows players to enter a dungeon where the game appoints each player with a randomised ROLE, I think you’re being a little bit too negative. Maybe you don’t like that idea… NEWS FLASH, No body is surprised that YOU, as a person might not like some such idea. Not everybody likes the same stuff, and the KEY factor to keep in mind is that this would simply be a dungeon “MODE”. That means that you can (as a group) choose whether or not you want to enter the dungeon using that play-option.

So, if I don’t like the random role I will go out of the dungeon to get another one? Put the group under the whole trouble of disbanding and then reinviting everyone repeatedly until they get the roles that WORK? “Random” roles when you enter a dungeon is never going to happen because it’s not going to work. It’s hardly a challenge, more like an annoyance.

Mate, if you don’t like the role you’re given, you will wipe away your tears and button up and just do as is the intention of the random role mode, PLAY a random role!
Seriously, don’t you know any better than this? If life gives you lemons, make lemonade.

Why should there be any roles that “DON’T work”? Man, it seems like you’re just inventing problems that would not exist if someone was to create this and actually put some THOUGHT into it.

Nothing you said actually justifies the belief that this would not work. Also, please tell me, why exactly would something like this be annoying for you? That interests me a lot.

Random roles don’t make content challenging, they just make it boring and uninteresting. You DO know that can do most content in the game with any kind of build right? It just makes it tedious and boring if you use only specific types, while it’s fast and fun if you optimize a bit. Forcing players to use random builds in a TEAM environment is even worse, you do know what the word teamwork means right? Teams are supposed to work together to defeat the content, and good teams have great synergy in their builds. You want to remove all teamwork, team building and team synergy from the game with the random builds and you don’t see why it’s a horrible idea?

So random roles simply don’t work, and that by itself justifies my belief that this would not work, because random roles lead to a boring and uninteresting experience. I find it funny that you ask why having to disband groups, or reenter content, relog, switch characters or do whatever you can to find FUN and WORKING roles within a party is annoying.

That’s the annoying part, not being able to play what you enjoy and find fun.

Leo G.4501:

maddoctor.2738:

So, if I don’t like the random role I will go out of the dungeon to get another one? Put the group under the whole trouble of disbanding and then reinviting everyone repeatedly until they get the roles that WORK? “Random” roles when you enter a dungeon is never going to happen because it’s not going to work. It’s hardly a challenge, more like an annoyance.

Sure, people cheese dungeons now so who cares?

But I never mentioned roles. If anything, the idea would encourage players to find roles with whatever they got rolled and since the group as a whole would likely be doing a similar thing…

Not really. The idea will only cause frustration and annoyance on the players who will try and find ways to bypass the random roll to get what they actually enjoy playing. There is a thing called team work, random builds completely ruin it, there is also variety and diversity, also ruined with a random build.

But more importantly, random builds do not offer any kind of challenge at all. There is nothing challenging about having to use a predefined random build. It only limits the (already not high enough) diversity and variety of the game. If nothing else, it will just make the content go slower and slower instead of offering an actual challenge.

Unless those builds are so random that you will get something that is borderline unplayable. You really want players to have something unplayable on their hands?

maddoctor.2738:

Random roles don’t make content challenging, they just make it boring and uninteresting. You DO know that can do most content in the game with any kind of build right? It just makes it tedious and boring if you use only specific types, while it’s fast and fun if you optimize a bit. Forcing players to use random builds in a TEAM environment is even worse, you do know what the word teamwork means right? Teams are supposed to work together to defeat the content, and good teams have great synergy in their builds. You want to remove all teamwork, team building and team synergy from the game with the random builds and you don’t see why it’s a horrible idea?

So random roles simply don’t work, and that by itself justifies my belief that this would not work, because random roles lead to a boring and uninteresting experience. I find it funny that you ask why having to disband groups, or reenter content, relog, switch characters or do whatever you can to find FUN and WORKING roles within a party is annoying.

That’s the annoying part, not being able to play what you enjoy and find fun.

First of all, rather than making assumptions about how the idea would not work, why don’t you instead…. drum roll STOP making assumptions.

YOU *ASS*UME that these would be RANDOM roles that wouldn’t fit in together as a team, as if it were 5 people who all spoke 5 different languages and none of them could communicate with each other.

Obviously if something is going to work, some thought is going to be needed and in order for this to work, obviously each role of each person is going to have to complement the other in a team environment. Unlike the metaphor with 5 people who don’t speak each others language.

And anyway, this was not my idea. But nevertheless I can see how this might be a little challenging, to be thrown into the boots of a role that is possibly unfamiliar to you.

The question was not "why do you dislike having to disband groups, or reenter content, relog, switch characters or do whatever you can to find FUN and WORKING roles within a party is annoying. "

The question was, Why would you find a game mode where you’re given a random role, annoying?
If you enter a dungeon and you are given a random role that you don’t like, you’re not supposed to reset the game until you’re given a role that you do like, that isn’t how it works.
You’re supposed to accept any role you’re given. If you don’t like it, the challenge is to play along even though you don’t like it.

You say random roles make the game boring. How do you know?
Maybe you’re just an impatient brat that thinks EVERYTHING is boring.
Admit it.

“Doctor” You keep thinking of ways that this idea would not work.

It’s as if you said that it would be a cool idea to walk down the street, and then I came along and said, NO! That’s boring! What if there is a banana peal and you step on it and slip?

Obviously the answer is “WALK AROUND IT”. Seriously, I don’t mean to be negative, but you talk too much for someone who thinks so little.

maddoctor.2738:

Leo G.4501:

maddoctor.2738:

So, if I don’t like the random role I will go out of the dungeon to get another one? Put the group under the whole trouble of disbanding and then reinviting everyone repeatedly until they get the roles that WORK? “Random” roles when you enter a dungeon is never going to happen because it’s not going to work. It’s hardly a challenge, more like an annoyance.

Sure, people cheese dungeons now so who cares?

But I never mentioned roles. If anything, the idea would encourage players to find roles with whatever they got rolled and since the group as a whole would likely be doing a similar thing…

Not really. The idea will only cause frustration and annoyance on the players who will try and find ways to bypass the random roll to get what they actually enjoy playing. There is a thing called team work, random builds completely ruin it, there is also variety and diversity, also ruined with a random build.

But more importantly, random builds do not offer any kind of challenge at all. There is nothing challenging about having to use a predefined random build. It only limits the (already not high enough) diversity and variety of the game. If nothing else, it will just make the content go slower and slower instead of offering an actual challenge.

Unless those builds are so random that you will get something that is borderline unplayable. You really want players to have something unplayable on their hands?

Mad doctor, you are so negative, you invent ways for things not to work.

It’s as If I said “the colour blue is REALLY COOL”. and then you come along and say!
NO STOP IT! What if some girl comes along and paints pink ALL over your blue!?
No body likes it! I know everyone and everyone told me so.
So stupid. Grow up child and quit being a hater and trying to negate every positive thought that people come up with.

Halvorn.9831:

I don’t think this game needs a hard mode. It is not too easy. It is a tiny but very voicy minority that wants hard modes. The majority of players still has problems even surviving in simple situations. And no, ANet should not focus on a minority just because it complains loudly. Where they introduced more challenging content it is underused, since nobody really wants it.

I’d rather see ANet focus on something different. What this game really needs is a better education of how you fight and survive and take responsibility for your actions rather than relying on those around you to rezz you and carry you.

If that is done we can talk about raising the difficulty bar. Because we have raised the abilities of the average players. We are far away from that though.

A “TINY MINORITY”? You are way off ball.

Maybe it’s just all the people in your guild who haven’t yet developed any dexterity and find the game to be a struggle.

If you’re saying that I am one of VERY few people who have some kind of RARE ability to overcome tough and challenging content, then I will take this as a compliment, but I am sure that it is not true.

I can understand that a lot of young kids play this game, and as long as they’re not bratty little haters, that’s fine, I like kids. But is a “hard mode” where mobs are only a little harder (or a little bi-t more harder) so much to ask for?

I’m not asking for the developers to go over the top. I don’t want to be 1 shot everywhere I go. I just want to feel like this truly beautiful, artistic game isn’t some kind of app for the elderly used to make people go to sleep.

Notorious Dog.1043:

maddoctor.2738:

Random roles don’t make content challenging, they just make it boring and uninteresting. You DO know that can do most content in the game with any kind of build right? It just makes it tedious and boring if you use only specific types, while it’s fast and fun if you optimize a bit. Forcing players to use random builds in a TEAM environment is even worse, you do know what the word teamwork means right? Teams are supposed to work together to defeat the content, and good teams have great synergy in their builds. You want to remove all teamwork, team building and team synergy from the game with the random builds and you don’t see why it’s a horrible idea?

So random roles simply don’t work, and that by itself justifies my belief that this would not work, because random roles lead to a boring and uninteresting experience. I find it funny that you ask why having to disband groups, or reenter content, relog, switch characters or do whatever you can to find FUN and WORKING roles within a party is annoying.

That’s the annoying part, not being able to play what you enjoy and find fun.

First of all, rather than making assumptions about how the idea would not work, why don’t you instead…. drum roll STOP making assumptions.

YOU *ASS*UME that these would be RANDOM roles that wouldn’t fit in together as a team, as if it were 5 people who all spoke 5 different languages and none of them could communicate with each other.

Obviously if something is going to work, some thought is going to be needed and in order for this to work, obviously each role of each person is going to have to complement the other in a team environment. Unlike the metaphor with 5 people who don’t speak each others language.

And anyway, this was not my idea. But nevertheless I can see how this might be a little challenging, to be thrown into the boots of a role that is possibly unfamiliar to you.

I’m not making assumptions. The idea was to have random builds, emphasis on RANDOM, different to what players are using and play with. No amount of communication can make a group of RANDOMS work together well. It’s not a matter of communication at all, it’s simply impossible.

So the completely random roles chosen for each player now will also work together well for the team? How is that RANDOM? You should go check what random means. You can both give players random builds AND at the same time make those RANDOM builds work together as a team.

The question was, Why would you find a game mode where you’re given a random role, annoying?
If you enter a dungeon and you are given a random role that you don’t like, you’re not supposed to reset the game until you’re given a role that you do like, that isn’t how it works.
You’re supposed to accept any role you’re given. If you don’t like it, the challenge is to play along even though you don’t like it.

And this is where you are wrong. If you enter a dungeon and get a random role you don’t like you either don’t play the dungeon or find a way to get the role you want. Forcing players to use something they don’t want won’t make the content challenging at all, it will make it frustrating and boring. And if you find a magic way to enforce it, even with party disbanding, relogging or anything else (good luck with that) then players would simply not play that content. In any way or form RANDOM builds for most types of content are something completely useless.

You say random roles make the game boring. How do you know?
Maybe you’re just an impatient brat that thinks EVERYTHING is boring.
Admit it.

Already explained why multiple times.

“Doctor” You keep thinking of ways that this idea would not work.

Because in reality it won’t work, plain and simple.

It’s as if you said that it would be a cool idea to walk down the street, and then I came along and said, NO! That’s boring! What if there is a banana peal and you step on it and slip?

Not really a good example. Maybe more like, when you go outside you have to use a random set of clothes, chosen from the entire family wardrobe no less. That would be fun.

maddoctor.2738:

Random roles don’t make content challenging, they just make it boring and uninteresting. You DO know that can do most content in the game with any kind of build right? It just makes it tedious and boring if you use only specific types, while it’s fast and fun if you optimize a bit.

The thing that limits creating tough (or “hardmode”) content is the way the players can optimize most PvE fights. It’s why invulnerability mechanics and special circumstances are a must for at least parts of them. To me, such content that makes you pick up stuff to use against the boss or break such-and-such object to defeat the enemy isn’t all that different from putting me in a new ‘car’ I’m not that familiar with and telling me to drive to a specific destination (basically what I was suggesting).

Not downplaying your opinion but yeah, what is tedious and boring to you is just your opinion, man. Don’t forget that. To me, FotM 35+ is boring and tedious. It feels like the same content I did for the previous 30 levels, just forcing me to wear zerker gear to get rid of the enemy asap. Doesn’t mean FotM 50 is bad, just not something I enjoy.

Forcing players to use random builds in a TEAM environment is even worse, you do know what the word teamwork means right? Teams are supposed to work together to defeat the content, and good teams have great synergy in their builds. You want to remove all teamwork, team building and team synergy from the game with the random builds and you don’t see why it’s a horrible idea?

You already said “any build can complete any content”. The point of random builds is to learn your team composition and make the synergies work. You can do so in PuGs now if people pull their heads from their kittens and actually try and help their teammates instead of soloing stuff for them.

So random roles simply don’t work, and that by itself justifies my belief that this would not work, because random roles lead to a boring and uninteresting experience. I find it funny that you ask why having to disband groups, or reenter content, relog, switch characters or do whatever you can to find FUN and WORKING roles within a party is annoying.

That’s the annoying part, not being able to play what you enjoy and find fun.

Holy moly! Looks likes we’s got a fortune teller ovah heeah!

Notorious Dog.1043:

maddoctor.2738:

Leo G.4501:

maddoctor.2738:

So, if I don’t like the random role I will go out of the dungeon to get another one? Put the group under the whole trouble of disbanding and then reinviting everyone repeatedly until they get the roles that WORK? “Random” roles when you enter a dungeon is never going to happen because it’s not going to work. It’s hardly a challenge, more like an annoyance.

Sure, people cheese dungeons now so who cares?

But I never mentioned roles. If anything, the idea would encourage players to find roles with whatever they got rolled and since the group as a whole would likely be doing a similar thing…

Not really. The idea will only cause frustration and annoyance on the players who will try and find ways to bypass the random roll to get what they actually enjoy playing. There is a thing called team work, random builds completely ruin it, there is also variety and diversity, also ruined with a random build.

But more importantly, random builds do not offer any kind of challenge at all. There is nothing challenging about having to use a predefined random build. It only limits the (already not high enough) diversity and variety of the game. If nothing else, it will just make the content go slower and slower instead of offering an actual challenge.

Unless those builds are so random that you will get something that is borderline unplayable. You really want players to have something unplayable on their hands?

Mad doctor, you are so negative, you invent ways for things not to work.

It’s as If I said “the colour blue is REALLY COOL”. and then you come along and say!
NO STOP IT! What if some girl comes along and paints pink ALL over your blue!?
No body likes it! I know everyone and everyone told me so.
So stupid. Grow up child and quit being a hater and trying to negate every positive thought that people come up with.

So this is your last resort since you are out of arguments already? There was an idea, I gave my counter arguments for it and explained them. You brought no counters whatsoever, just silly examples that do not even fit.

Look up the word “discussion”, it’s something grown ups do. Usually when someone offers valid counter arguments for an idea, the other person needs to provide counters for them, that’s how you move the discussion forward. Apparently you have nothing to add just silly remarks and personal attacks.

I will be negative about ideas people come up with that cannot work (with valid reasons), I will be negative about ideas that don’t fit the game and will make the experience worse for everyone (with valid reasons explaining why).

Leo G.4501:

maddoctor.2738:

Random roles don’t make content challenging, they just make it boring and uninteresting. You DO know that can do most content in the game with any kind of build right? It just makes it tedious and boring if you use only specific types, while it’s fast and fun if you optimize a bit.

The thing that limits creating tough (or “hardmode”) content is the way the players can optimize most PvE fights. It’s why invulnerability mechanics and special circumstances are a must for at least parts of them. To me, such content that makes you pick up stuff to use against the boss or break such-and-such object to defeat the enemy isn’t all that different from putting me in a new ‘car’ I’m not that familiar with and telling me to drive to a specific destination (basically what I was suggesting).

So you don’t like people using teamwork and team building to overcome encounters?

Not downplaying your opinion but yeah, what is tedious and boring to you is just your opinion, man. Don’t forget that. To me, FotM 35+ is boring and tedious. It feels like the same content I did for the previous 30 levels, just forcing me to wear zerker gear to get rid of the enemy asap. Doesn’t mean FotM 50 is bad, just not something I enjoy.

So wait let me get this straight, you find FotM 35+ boring and tedious, but giving everyone a random build before they go in to do FotM 35+ will now magically make it interesting and enjoyable?

Forcing players to use random builds in a TEAM environment is even worse, you do know what the word teamwork means right? Teams are supposed to work together to defeat the content, and good teams have great synergy in their builds. You want to remove all teamwork, team building and team synergy from the game with the random builds and you don’t see why it’s a horrible idea?

You already said “any build can complete any content”. The point of random builds is to learn your team composition and make the synergies work. You can do so in PuGs now if people pull their heads from their kittens and actually try and help their teammates instead of soloing stuff for them.

No amount of learning can help you find synergies where there aren’t any. Unless our definition is completely different, a random build won’t have much to work on to actually find any synergies and work with your team mates. I can think of so many possible “builds” with skills and traits that don’t make any sense together and in any way or form you will never find any kind of synergy. That’s why random builds won’t work, I don’t know how anyone can make a random build work, even more so in a team setting.

Holy moly! Looks likes we’s got a fortune teller ovah heeah!

It’s called Common Sense

No to hard mode, if you want a game like WoW, why not play that.

Dividing the community just leads to a kitten community.

I think the success of the Demon Souls/ Dark Souls franchise has proven that there is a market for challenging games. There is clearly a large group of consumers that enjoy unforgiving pve content with strict penalties for death. This game also proves (to me) that pve areas that have some amount of pvp integrated into them would also have some success, as that is essentially the entire premise for that franchise (seamless integrated pvevp).

I am personally of this market, and revel in content which makes me strategize and think on my feet at the same time. GW2 has what is possibly one of the most immersive combat systems out of any game I have played, and I think it is a shame that you don’t really have to take advantage of that for pve content.

We need some mode like that! I hardly doubt it would divide community since it should be so hard that its only doable with coordinate people (guild mates, friends etc…)

We need this content!

kamix.4713:

We need some mode like that! I hardly doubt it would divide community since it should be so hard that its only doable with coordinate people (guild mates, friends etc…)

We need this content!

So you want a hard mode, of course you don’t want better rewards, do you? Because why would you want better rewards, the fact it’s harder would be the reward.

I see hard mode as being the first step towards having an elitist group in the community like there is in WoW.

“doctor”

Lets start again. It’s clear to me that you are not quite viewing the idea (which was not even part of the main topic, btw) the same way that I am. Or maybe you are, but you’re making too many assumptions.
You aren’t able to make changes to the idea in order to better it.

So I’m going to help you.

Imagine that you have installed a BRAND new MMO game, and you’ve just fired it up and there is just ONE button. the “PLAY” button.

You PRESS the PLAY button and like MAGIC, the game begins

Suddenly you are in a DARK CAVE! (OMG!)

And there are a bunch of other people around you, lets say, FOUR OTHERS.
And you’re holding a large magical staff. The other people who’re in your presence are also holding equipment and together you think you could probably take on some mangy creatures. It turns out that you all work quite nicely as a team. SURPRISE SURPRISE. How on EARTH did that happen?!!? OH EM GEE!

Long story short, you shut down a few creatures, you got some gold and now its bed time.

the NEXT DAY. You FIRE UP THE GAME, you hit the ONE AND ONLY button and like MAGIC, once again you are standing with four other people! Omg how does it work???
(It’s magic, don’t ask questions. And yes, you did ask.)
—-
So now, unlike YESTERDAY, you are holding a massive Sword, so big and heavy that you need both hands to hold it steady. It seems that all the other people around you also have different roles that somehow complement each other.

If you don’t like this idea, then what exactly is it that makes you think somebody is going to FORCE you to play this? Is there something you’re not telling us? Are you a gold farmer? Are they forcing you to play this game?

If you think that people are going to enter such a game mode where they’re given a random role and then leave because they don’t like the role they’re given, then you’re probably right, but if you ask me, people who make such a fuss are incredibly weak and tragically insufferable and they need to work on their discipline and stop complaining about everything, because one day they might get a shock to find out that you can’t turn back everything that life sends your way.

Also, what you’re explaining goes COMPLETELY AGAINST the WHOLE IDEA!
Do you understand what that means??

you are supposed to get a random role so that you are challenged to play a role that you don’t necessarily normally play. If people are only going to accept a role that they like, then they can go and play NORMAL DUNGEONS!
1+ 1 =2

Azala Yar.7693:

No to hard mode, if you want a game like WoW, why not play that.

Dividing the community just leads to a kitten community.

Who said anything about dividing the community?

I recommend that you read a little further than just the first post.
I provided an idea where creatures can drink strength potions if they see that you’re playing hard mode. No division necessary, SIiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiIIMMMPLEEEEE!

Azala Yar.7693:

kamix.4713:

We need some mode like that! I hardly doubt it would divide community since it should be so hard that its only doable with coordinate people (guild mates, friends etc…)

We need this content!

So you want a hard mode, of course you don’t want better rewards, do you? Because why would you want better rewards, the fact it’s harder would be the reward.

I see hard mode as being the first step towards having an elitist group in the community like there is in WoW.

The first step to being an elitist is having a bad attitude.
Just because you do something that is harder than what others do, doesn’t mean that you have to be a bad person and be arrogant.

Do it yourself. If you die, delete your character and start again.

The devs are never going to take the time to hardcode this for a feature 0.1% of the community would seriously entertain.

Ezrael.6859:

Do it yourself. If you die, delete your character and start again.

The devs are never going to take the time to hardcode this for a feature 0.1% of the community would seriously entertain.

Who said anything about deleting characters when you die?

like others, you assume something, in this case you assume that the idea is to 100% copy the style of hardcore modes from other games.

Since the discussion in this thread has derailed and is no longer constructive this thread is now closed.