Guild Wars 2

I’m beginning to doubt that we will ever get to explore Cantha again.

I understand that there are reasons for Arenanet’s silence on this issue, but is anyone with a foot in the development team comfortable discussing it? Is NCSoft so intent on removing any Asian themed content from Guild Wars that we will slowly see the complete erasure of the Canthan continent and lore, because it is considered a “big mistake”, starting with the Canthan Quarter in Lions Arch?

As a Guild Wars player for the past 7 years, this wounds me. The diversity and culture of the continent, in conjunction with the African themed Elona and the Vaabi, added so much to the gameplay and community, and would truly be a loss worth mourning. If there is a way to adapt Cantha and Elona to an increasingly sensitive definition of “politically correct”, I believe those adaptations would be preferable under any circumstances to sinking the entire ship.

I hope these comments will not be brushed off as noisy, unfocused criticism and anxiety. I’m aware many other players have made similar comments.

Regards,

Alex

Alex Shatter.7956:

I’m beginning to doubt that we will ever get to explore Cantha again.

I understand that there are reasons for Arenanet’s silence on this issue, but is anyone with a foot in the development team comfortable discussing it? Is NCSoft so intent on removing any Asian themed content from Guild Wars that we will slowly see the complete erasure of the Canthan continent and lore, because it is considered a “big mistake”, starting with the Canthan Quarter in Lions Arch?

As a Guild Wars player for the past 7 years, this wounds me. The diversity and culture of the continent, in conjunction with the African themed Elona and the Vaabi, added so much to the gameplay and community, and would truly be a loss worth mourning. If there is a way to adapt Cantha and Elona to an increasingly sensitive definition of “politically correct”, I believe those adaptations would be preferable under any circumstances to sinking the entire ship.

I hope these comments will not be brushed off as noisy, unfocused criticism and anxiety. I’m aware many other players have made similar comments.

Regards,

Alex

You may want to read https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/The-Cantha-Thread-Merged/first if you have a whole lot of time.

Yeah… a total erasing. that’s why we have a major character who is Canthan as part of one of the major adventuring teams ATM.

wait… we do? who?

marjory isn’t canthan… is she?

Narrrz.7532:

wait… we do? who?

marjory isn’t canthan… is she?

Marjory is Canthan. Her entire family is canthan. Belinda was obviously Canthan descended.

Narrrz.7532:

wait… we do? who?

marjory isn’t canthan… is she?

She’s of Canthan descent, but wasn’t born there.

Kalavier.1097:

Yeah… a total erasing. that’s why we have a major character who is Canthan as part of one of the major adventuring teams ATM.

GW can include Cantha as a sub-lore without adding “Asian themed content”. I mean a removal of the continent and characters themselves, which they have already casually begun.

No one in Tyria (the continent) now was born in Cantha. Unless a Zephyrite maybe was? But there are definitely Canthan influences in architecture, genetic lines, and food preferences. In DR drop down to the WP by the crafting stations under the TP. Stand there a few minutes and you’ll hear a woman threatening homicide if she doesn’t get a Canthan dish she loves. (I’m pretty sure it’s a Canthan dish she’s going on about; I tend to focus more on her friend’s hasty exit).

Donari.5237:

No one in Tyria (the continent) now was born in Cantha. Unless a Zephyrite maybe was? But there are definitely Canthan influences in architecture, genetic lines, and food preferences. In DR drop down to the WP by the crafting stations under the TP. Stand there a few minutes and you’ll hear a woman threatening homicide if she doesn’t get a Canthan dish she loves. (I’m pretty sure it’s a Canthan dish she’s going on about; I tend to focus more on her friend’s hasty exit).

I could be wrong but I’m sure when I made my human engi part of the storyline Logan (or maybe some other NPC) asked where I was born and one of the options was Cantha……

It’s in the second part of the PS, the line where you decide to save your sister. Logan asks that I guess to select what your sister looks like. So that you don’t have a Canthan looking sister while you yourself are Elonian for example.

stof.9341:

It’s in the second part of the PS, the line where you decide to save your sister. Logan asks that I guess to select what your sister looks like. So that you don’t have a Canthan looking sister while you yourself are Elonian for example.

Thanks for that, just made a new char to see if I could find it but I chose the wrong story part. I will give it another shot tomorrow. I will prove yet that there are indeed Canthans alive and well!

Paulytnz.7619:

I could be wrong but I’m sure when I made my human engi part of the storyline Logan (or maybe some other NPC) asked where I was born and one of the options was Cantha……

In a similar vein, I remember way back when some saying that originally there were options planned in the character select screen that included ‘Elonian’, ‘Canthan’, ‘Ascalonian’ or ‘Krytian’ or something like that for your characters background. I don’t remember where I read it or if it was even true but I always kinda wished they had kept it.

stof.9341:

It’s in the second part of the PS, the line where you decide to save your sister. Logan asks that I guess to select what your sister looks like. So that you don’t have a Canthan looking sister while you yourself are Elonian for example.

That part of the missions always struck me odd. From a new player perspective, with on insight into the lore other then what the game shows you, you’d have NO idea what the difference between the 4 sub-sets of humans are. The question itself is also kind okittenward. “We’ll have to hurry to save your sister. But first, would you mind filling out this census form?”

fuzzyp.6295:

In a similar vein, I remember way back when some saying that originally there were options planned in the character select screen that included ‘Elonian’, ‘Canthan’, ‘Ascalonian’ or ‘Krytian’ or something like that for your characters background. I don’t remember where I read it or if it was even true but I always kinda wished they had kept it.

starlinvf.1358:

That part of the missions always struck me odd. From a new player perspective, with on insight into the lore other then what the game shows you, you’d have NO idea what the difference between the 4 sub-sets of humans are. The question itself is also kind okittenward. “We’ll have to hurry to save your sister. But first, would you mind filling out this census form?”

Those two remarks go hand in hand. There was probably a birth option to choose your origins (with maybe a restriction on the char builder to look correctly?). Which once it was removed, pushed the writers to do a small hack in the corresponding story part to fill the missing info.

Korean NCsoft doesnt want to show Cantha cos Cantha is racist. Irony.

It’s been centuries lore-wise since the players got to explore Cantha, ANet could (and probably are) re-imagine it to whatever sensibilities they desire given that large passage of time. If/when Cantha becomes a place for the players to go to, I wouldn’t expect the Cantha I remember.

Also, the newest Revenant legend is Shiro…so not sure how you think they’re trying to sweep Cantha under the rug when they add in the big bad guy from Factions.

Just because they’re not yet ready to go back there in the game doesn’t mean they don’t have any plans to in the future.

Leming.8436:

Korean NCsoft doesnt want to show Cantha cos Cantha is racist. Irony.

That is not really the thing though.

It is not about racism but rather about Cantha basically mashing together multiple asian cultures and people. Something that is rather sensitive in parts of Asia, due to history and such.

Teevell.1684:

Also, the newest Revenant legend is Shiro…so not sure how you think they’re trying to sweep Cantha under the rug when they add in the big bad guy from Factions.

Just because they’re not yet ready to go back there in the game doesn’t mean they don’t have any plans to in the future.

This…

Cantha is across an ocean, while we have major threats right in Tyria. It’d be a little weird lore-wise for us to suddenly trek to Cantha which, from what I recall, is actually doing decent, they just went isolationist and kicked out non-human sentient races.

Paulytnz.7619:

stof.9341:

It’s in the second part of the PS, the line where you decide to save your sister. Logan asks that I guess to select what your sister looks like. So that you don’t have a Canthan looking sister while you yourself are Elonian for example.

Thanks for that, just made a new char to see if I could find it but I chose the wrong story part. I will give it another shot tomorrow. I will prove yet that there are indeed Canthans alive and well!

From the wiki:
Logan Thackeray: Falcon Company’s records were largely destroyed by centaur raids. I’m trying to get a complete roster. Your sister was of Krytan descent?

Talk end option tango.png
Yes. We’re both Krytan.
Talk end option tango.png
No, my sister and I trace our lineage to Elona.
Talk end option tango.png
Actually, we’re of Canthan descent.
Talk end option tango.png
Ascalonian, sir, and proud of it.

Canthan descent, not born in Cantha. (Similar for Elona). As I said, Canthan heritage lingers on but we don’t have current people born in Cantha.

No need to use an alt slot just for this

it’s weird that marjory delaqua is supposed to have canthan descent, when her surname is from italian origin. the other canthan guy i know, (shiro tagachi) does have a japanese name….

Kalavier.1097:

Cantha is across an ocean, while we have major threats right in Tyria. It’d be a little weird lore-wise for us to suddenly trek to Cantha which, from what I recall, is actually doing decent, they just went isolationist and kicked out non-human sentient races.

Oh so cantha is now xenophobic like…japan and china? I guess Anet is being more true to oriental cultures than we thought…

Aenesthesia.1697:

it’s weird that marjory delaqua is supposed to have canthan descent, when her surname is from italian origin. the other canthan guy i know, (shiro tagachi) does have a japanese name….

Cantha isn’t meant to be Chinese; it’s a combination of various Asian cultures. On top of that, you even have the Kurzicks of Cantha who all have Germanic names. And then the Luxons have names based on Greek names.

And yes, the very end of the Cantha stuff in GW1 (with Winds of Change) has you helping the Ministry of Purity purge the entire continent of Afflicted, gangs, and then Tengu. Since the end of that story, they’ve basically cut off all outside trade and travel. The ruling government is extremely xenophobic.

Donari.5237:

Paulytnz.7619:

stof.9341:

It’s in the second part of the PS, the line where you decide to save your sister. Logan asks that I guess to select what your sister looks like. So that you don’t have a Canthan looking sister while you yourself are Elonian for example.

Thanks for that, just made a new char to see if I could find it but I chose the wrong story part. I will give it another shot tomorrow. I will prove yet that there are indeed Canthans alive and well!

From the wiki:
Logan Thackeray: Falcon Company’s records were largely destroyed by centaur raids. I’m trying to get a complete roster. Your sister was of Krytan descent?

Talk end option tango.png
Yes. We’re both Krytan.
Talk end option tango.png
No, my sister and I trace our lineage to Elona.
Talk end option tango.png
Actually, we’re of Canthan descent.
Talk end option tango.png
Ascalonian, sir, and proud of it.

Canthan descent, not born in Cantha. (Similar for Elona). As I said, Canthan heritage lingers on but we don’t have current people born in Cantha.

No need to use an alt slot just for this

Awwww, well I was close lol. I was just farming keys anyways and I still have a few lvl 20 scrolls left so there was no slot waste as I have a dedicated slot for farming keys.

stof.9341:

fuzzyp.6295:

In a similar vein, I remember way back when some saying that originally there were options planned in the character select screen that included ‘Elonian’, ‘Canthan’, ‘Ascalonian’ or ‘Krytian’ or something like that for your characters background. I don’t remember where I read it or if it was even true but I always kinda wished they had kept it.

starlinvf.1358:

That part of the missions always struck me odd. From a new player perspective, with on insight into the lore other then what the game shows you, you’d have NO idea what the difference between the 4 sub-sets of humans are. The question itself is also kind okittenward. “We’ll have to hurry to save your sister. But first, would you mind filling out this census form?”

Those two remarks go hand in hand. There was probably a birth option to choose your origins (with maybe a restriction on the char builder to look correctly?). Which once it was removed, pushed the writers to do a small hack in the corresponding story part to fill the missing info.

It would had been way easier to just copy the Character’s skin tone, and using that to determine which face to use. It would had been surprisingly accurate…… discounting the “I was adopted” RP angle. And cases of Re-vitiligo (that thing Uncle Ruckus has).

Erasure?

Sometimes it feels like Anet is a Ship of Fools who fail to give even A Little Respect to the lore of GW2. I understand that the Chains of Love that people have for GW1 makes people wish that this game would Star more of the old history.

Lots of players feel Oh, L’amour, for GW1 of course, but I fear Cantha is a Victim of Love… and Who Needs Love Like That?

People really need to Stop all the Drama and leave it in The Circus. Anet crosses River Deep, Mountain High to bring us this amazing game!

GuzziHero.2467:

Erasure?

Sometimes it feels like Anet is a Ship of Fools who fail to give even A Little Respect to the lore of GW2. I understand that the Chains of Love that people have for GW1 makes people wish that this game would Star more of the old history.

Lots of players feel Oh, L’amour, for GW1 of course, but I fear Cantha is a Victim of Love… and Who Needs Love Like That?

People really need to Stop all the Drama and leave it in The Circus. Anet crosses River Deep, Mountain High to bring us this amazing game!

How long have you been waiting to do that?

data.4093:

Kalavier.1097:

Cantha is across an ocean, while we have major threats right in Tyria. It’d be a little weird lore-wise for us to suddenly trek to Cantha which, from what I recall, is actually doing decent, they just went isolationist and kicked out non-human sentient races.

Oh so cantha is now xenophobic like…japan and china? I guess Anet is being more true to oriental cultures than we thought…

lol….
so its more racist to not include cantha

than to include a racist cantha.

thats actually something Anet should consider =D

plus…..Cantha just kicked out the non human sentients?
oh god….Naga and Tengu gonna be makign such a big war in Cantha……
kitten the dragons i want to see that!

plus, most of the dragons seem to be taking their time doing stuff…
jormag is MIA still
as is kalkratoic (misspelled…)
(seriously. we haven’t seen either of these expandign their territory in game. they just sit there watching Zhaitan go squish)

bubbles is probably watching the fun in cantha.

and mordremoth? meh….few flamethrowers, maybe a tame dragon from Cantha or 2…..

the only 2 dragons we’ve seen actually doign crap is Zhaitan (now dead, all he did as raise orr. attack a bit. and then go on the defensive throughout the entire story….with 1 attack on lions arch that utterly failed)
and mordremoth(which doesn’t count. cause Scarlet was responsible for all of that….WHILE THE DRAGON WAS ASLEEP)

the dragons seem like they’ll wait a few years for us to finish some….issues (aka bandits, inquest, nightmare court, flame legion and so on)

i mean, during the massive distraction of scarlet making trouble, did any dragon….idk lay seige to a major city?
or expand their territory?

nope. they just sat there and watched.

so lets go on vacation to Cantha to help the Tengu get some bloody revenge. learn a bit about dragon lore and the mists.
and then come back and go back to attackign dragons that are all on the defensive(cause none of them know what “attack” means in…..how many years have they been active?)

Thats seriously the biggest flaw in the story
the Dragons always lose every battle with us as the story goes.

so how are they scary? they always on the defensive as no attacks work.

look at GW1. one of the first things that happens in EoTN is you kitten RUN out of a tunnel as minions of primordis destroy and chase you.

you lose ground. the dragon WON a fight. and put you on the defensive so you had to find a way to regain the initiative and attack.

in GW2. the closest we have to a lost battle is claw island, which doesn’t feel like a loss cause you, the player, never feels like your in trouble. you don’t have the challenge of actually losing.
no matter what you do, its to easy…..

failing a story missions a few times isn’t a bad thing, it makes it challenging and gives you the feeling that “this enemy is strong and actually winning.”

in GW1 factions, theres one mission they send so many minions after you that you lose alot!
so much so people pay to do the missions for you.
thats challenge!

and you DIE. Shiro kills you. he’s a extremely difficult boss at the end as well. as is the destroyer in EoTN!

gw2? whose challenging?

Leming.8436:

Korean NCsoft doesnt want to show Cantha cos Cantha is racist. Irony.

Which is even more odd when you consider that ANet has been a subsidiary of NCSoft many years before Factions was released.

arenta.2953:

lol….
so its more racist to not include cantha

than to include a racist cantha.

thats actually something Anet should consider =D

Yes well if modern gaming ‘criticism’ has taught me anything it’s that ‘criticism’ regarding absence is a lot easier to handle than examples of specifically ‘criticism’.

They’ve been doing a lot more callbacks to Cantha though. Marjory is of Canthan descent, Nika’s going to be a champion in the stronghold maps, and revenants getting Shiro Tagachi as a legend. They might be laying some groundwork to reintroduce more Canthan lore, but who knows really. There’s still a pretty huge disconnect between GW2 and GW1.

When GW was first released, it did quite well in SE Asia. However NCSOFT relatively recently wanted to push into mainland China and it’s possible that they saw the mishmash of China/Korea/Japan architecture as problematic due to WWII occupation by Japan which will be a sensitive subject seemingly until the sun burns out.

RoseofGilead.8907:

Aenesthesia.1697:

it’s weird that marjory delaqua is supposed to have canthan descent, when her surname is from italian origin. the other canthan guy i know, (shiro tagachi) does have a japanese name….

Cantha isn’t meant to be Chinese; it’s a combination of various Asian cultures. On top of that, you even have the Kurzicks of Cantha who all have Germanic names. And then the Luxons have names based on Greek names.

And yes, the very end of the Cantha stuff in GW1 (with Winds of Change) has you helping the Ministry of Purity purge the entire continent of Afflicted, gangs, and then Tengu. Since the end of that story, they’ve basically cut off all outside trade and travel. The ruling government is extremely xenophobic.

Actually, you stop and join against the Ministry at the end of it, killing the corrupt/crazy leader. It’s unclear what the boy does after taking over. It’s known a later emperor (I don’t think it’s the immediate next one, but unsure on that) banned all non-humans though. One theory I heard was the boy became emperor at some point.

However, they didn’t cut off trade. In Sea of Sorrow’s, they were trading with Kryta, but that ended with the rise of Orr.

edit: About the dragon attacks… It’s noted each dragon did a string of assaults when they first woke up, then went to the back and let the minions take over.

Sweetbread.4701:

They might be laying some groundwork to reintroduce more Canthan lore, but who knows really. There’s still a pretty huge disconnect between GW2 and GW1.

I suspect if/when they introduce Tengu as a playable race, that’ll coincide with a reintroduction of more Canthan elements since the (NPC) Tengu were introduced with and played a large part of Factions.

Behellagh.1468:

When GW was first released, it did quite well in SE Asia. However NCSOFT relatively recently wanted to push into mainland China and it’s possible that they saw the mishmash of China/Korea/Japan architecture as problematic due to WWII occupation by Japan which will be a sensitive subject seemingly until the sun burns out.

If NCsoft doesn’t release cantha because they’re afraid of some xenophobic chinese then they really need to grow some balls(shareholders might throw a fit if they knew Anet could sell 2 more games to an audience of millions). And if the chinese refuse to buy it doesn’t matter, all of the other regions will buy a lot(this is assuming cantha is good like factions).

Ultimately, those rumors may go back to one certain person at NCSoft who thought it was not okay to have an asian themed area in a western game. We don’t know.

It is hard to follow such mind sets since Asians have a vastly different view – well, mostly the older generation – the generation who is in authority.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Ultimately, those rumors may go back to one certain person at NCSoft who thought it was not okay to have an asian themed area in a western game. We don’t know.

It is hard to follow such mind sets since Asians have a vastly different view – well, mostly the older generation – the generation who is in authority.

Yeah but mindsets don’t matter much to investors. Remember that GW was really 3 games and 1 expansion. Right now we have the first game, there are 2 more games Anet could release, both have an audience and a good story/concept to build upon. GW2 is the fastest selling MMO ever and has sold over 7 million copies, so add 2 more games and…why aren’t these being worked on? I don’t know how the accounting would work out and how much more ncsoft would profit but it doesn’t seem reasonable(from a western perspective) to ignore so much revenue.

Cantha was based off real countries, so someone in those countries is going to be upset with the representation. You can’t please everyone. Tyria isn’t based off any particular real world continent or country, so no one really has a problem. Anet could bring back Cantha/Elona, changing it over the last 250 years to where it doesn’t represent certain countries. More likely is we’ll get a new continent though. There’s a world map with other island chains and continents.

Fenom.9457:

Cantha was based off real countries, so someone in those countries is going to be upset with the representation. You can’t please everyone. Tyria isn’t based off any particular real world continent or country, so no one really has a problem. Anet could bring back Cantha/Elona, changing it over the last 250 years to where it doesn’t represent certain countries. More likely is we’ll get a new continent though. There’s a world map with other island chains and continents.

It makes no sense though. They could have used their available factions/nightfall properties to create new games, increase revenue and retain/increase the player base instead of 0 expansions for 3 years. I think that if it’s taken them 3 years to release a small expansion then there are other issues. Has Anet ever said they’re so afraid of over-sensitive xenophobes before? Or is this just a community rumor?

No but to NCSOFT and other Korean MMO companies, they see China as a large untapped source of income. Nexon for instance is currently getting 44% of it’s income from China which is more than their income from Korea 1Q15. NCSOFT wants some of that which is why over the last few years they were pushing their properties, including GW2, onto China in hopes to significantly increase their income. So be “generic” Asia in your fantasy game (re: China/Korea) not a mashup.