Guild Wars 2

What i mean by this is that caster classes like elementalists and necro’s dont really feel like casters since almost all of their spells are nearly instant (apart from a few channeling skills).

If you compare this to other mmo’s like WoW, Rift etc they have like REAL mage like classes which actually CAST fireballs, icebolts etc. The reason GW2 doesn’t have this is propably due to how cc works in this game and that casters dont have time to stand still and get a 2sec cast off.

I just kinda miss playing like a warlock or mage type class since the casters in this game dont give me that similar feeling of being able to control enemies and casting huge fireballs at them Anyone else feel the same way ?

If you want the magic users to be more like they are in WoW, the only advice I can give here is to go play WoW.. srsly..

Would you prefer having limited spells per day like in DnD? GW2 is supposed to be on the fast paced side. Casters are squishy enough, dont have time to sit still and cast a spell so we can get smacked full of swords.

and you’re complaining about this now? after all that publicity that GW2 will have mobile combat? seriously, if you want to be locked in place while casting spells, go back to WoW, or Rift, or whatever game you came from.

I understand what the OP means, and I don’t completely disagree with it…but I think the argument runs a lot deeper.

There’s a standard fantasy trope that everyone lives by. Rangers must use bows. Why do you think the first weapon you get as a ranger is an ax? Aragorn was a ranger in Lord of the Rings and he used a sword.

A lot of the sensibilities we have in this genre are based on how we experienced the genre in the first place. To me, guns have no place in fantasy and it took me a long time to get used to the fact that they were going to be around. The first book that really broke me into that was The Guns of Avalon by Roger Zelazny, but even after that, it took me a long time to adjust to firearms in fantasy.

Today, genre lines blur as more and more stuff becomes cross-genre. So we have Asuran technology in this game, which brings an element into the game that feels like scifi.

And casters in most early games were rooted in place while casting. But this wasn’t done because that was most fun or made the best games. It was done because the older MMO servers needed to cut down on server calls or fighting would have ground to a halt.

Times of changes, technology has changed. And our view of what is a fantasy trope…that’s going to have to change too, because genres evolve.

All of them.

First of all it wasn’t meant as a complaint just a mere observation (i have been playing this game for a long time just playing melee which is fine). I was just wondering why the casters in this game aren’t really casting anything and why this is different than your typical mmo. But seeing some of your reactions i guess i wasn’t allowed to express my feeling about the GW2 caster classes :/

Ugh, I played a warlock in WoW and that felt like pure frustration to me every time I had to STOP to cast – 2 sec shadowbolt fillers, fml. I don’t know, maybe it’s a limitation of their engine or something.

I play an elementalist now and love the freedom of being able to move while casting. Never could go back to that old style.

Some skill in this game do have rather long cast time, for example, light of deliverance – a guardian skill has 4 seconds cast time. Some skills root you in place while channeling (moving interrupts the skill), some don’t.

Another thing about this game is that, there really isn’t such things as “castor classes,” “range classes,” etc. Every class has a blend of everything but still different from one another.

Being able to do this while moving is pure magic!

You think this is instant? I found my mesmer in gw1 much faster than my gw2 counterpart. In gw1 the fast casting spec did wonders for me.

Vayne.8563:

I understand what the OP means, and I don’t completely disagree with it…but I think the argument runs a lot deeper.

There’s a standard fantasy trope that everyone lives by. Rangers must use bows. Why do you think the first weapon you get as a ranger is an ax? Aragorn was a ranger in Lord of the Rings and he used a sword.

A lot of the sensibilities we have in this genre are based on how we experienced the genre in the first place. To me, guns have no place in fantasy and it took me a long time to get used to the fact that they were going to be around. The first book that really broke me into that was The Guns of Avalon by Roger Zelazny, but even after that, it took me a long time to adjust to firearms in fantasy.

Today, genre lines blur as more and more stuff becomes cross-genre. So we have Asuran technology in this game, which brings an element into the game that feels like scifi.

And casters in most early games were rooted in place while casting. But this wasn’t done because that was most fun or made the best games. It was done because the older MMO servers needed to cut down on server calls or fighting would have ground to a halt.

Times of changes, technology has changed. And our view of what is a fantasy trope…that’s going to have to change too, because genres evolve.

All of them.

I agree with this- and I too understand what you mean- I come from pretty much playing casters in all games ever.
It took me a very long time to get used to how quick magic works in GW2 especially since we have no mana/ potion management either.

I guess I found it easier to accept because I read a lot and I mean a lot of fantasy and most of it is not classic sword and sorcery.

Now I can’t really go back and deal with rooted / channeled casting and potions and the like anymore.

It may have helped that my only caster is a Mesmer and that in itself is not a standard fantasy trope.

Extrema.9184:

If you compare this to other mmo’s like WoW, Rift etc they have like REAL mage like classes which actually CAST fireballs, icebolts etc.

I’m sorry, which real life historical mages are you using as the criteria for what a real mage is?

Last time I checked, Fireball, along with every other ranged elementalist spell, takes at least 1 full second to cast. Many necromancer skills take a long time to cast as well. I’ve been interrupted many times attempting to cast Enfeebling Blood, sometimes by my own button spamming.

Vayne.8563:

I understand what the OP means, and I don’t completely disagree with it…but I think the argument runs a lot deeper.

There’s a standard fantasy trope that everyone lives by. Rangers must use bows. Why do you think the first weapon you get as a ranger is an ax? Aragorn was a ranger in Lord of the Rings and he used a sword.

A lot of the sensibilities we have in this genre are based on how we experienced the genre in the first place. To me, guns have no place in fantasy and it took me a long time to get used to the fact that they were going to be around. The first book that really broke me into that was The Guns of Avalon by Roger Zelazny, but even after that, it took me a long time to adjust to firearms in fantasy.

Today, genre lines blur as more and more stuff becomes cross-genre. So we have Asuran technology in this game, which brings an element into the game that feels like scifi.

And casters in most early games were rooted in place while casting. But this wasn’t done because that was most fun or made the best games. It was done because the older MMO servers needed to cut down on server calls or fighting would have ground to a halt.

Times of changes, technology has changed. And our view of what is a fantasy trope…that’s going to have to change too, because genres evolve.

All of them.

No class starts off with a two handed weapon and the axe is the only ranged one handed weapon a ranger has. They often state that despite ranger’s ability to use melee weapons, they are supposed to be the most versatile ranged martial profession. The option was either the sword or the axe, it’s easy to see why they have the axe.

Back to the OP’s point, I don’t think it has anything to do with thematically how they wish to portray classes. Standing in one place doesn’t fit the mechanics of GW2.

Craptrain.7203:

Extrema.9184:

If you compare this to other mmo’s like WoW, Rift etc they have like REAL mage like classes which actually CAST fireballs, icebolts etc.

I’m sorry, which real life historical mages are you using as the criteria for what a real mage is?

I nearly fell out of my chair laughing at this one!

Craptrain.7203:

Extrema.9184:

If you compare this to other mmo’s like WoW, Rift etc they have like REAL mage like classes which actually CAST fireballs, icebolts etc.

I’m sorry, which real life historical mages are you using as the criteria for what a real mage is?

Gandalf the Grey

Elementalist should do it like the real mages do it, like Gandalf and Merlin. Cast one spell, then pass out for the rest of the day…..

lilstev.3498:

Craptrain.7203:

Extrema.9184:

If you compare this to other mmo’s like WoW, Rift etc they have like REAL mage like classes which actually CAST fireballs, icebolts etc.

I’m sorry, which real life historical mages are you using as the criteria for what a real mage is?

Gandalf the Grey

I’m not sure you understand the words “real life” and “historical”.

lilstev.3498:

Elementalist should do it like the real mages do it, like Gandalf and Merlin. Cast one spell, then pass out for the rest of the day…..

Don’t forget Raistlin- sleep/magic missile and there he goes for a lie down and his tea

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tCD-PEOyehM/TacRYxzOIzI/AAAAAAAAAKY/k3jZoyD8yKE/s1600/tumblr_ljafd8dhX51qaz0qto1_500.jpg

See I knew he was real!

Craptrain.7203:

lilstev.3498:

Craptrain.7203:

Extrema.9184:

If you compare this to other mmo’s like WoW, Rift etc they have like REAL mage like classes which actually CAST fireballs, icebolts etc.

I’m sorry, which real life historical mages are you using as the criteria for what a real mage is?

Gandalf the Grey

I’m not sure you understand the words “real life” and “historical”.

It’s Lies Lies I tell you Gandalf is real.

[for those that can’t tell a joke my comment is a joke and so was lilstev comment]

@OP I really don’t see your issue.

I have to agree with you, I have this feeling from the beginning when I started playing, I don’t feel like there’s magic in this game. Diablo 3 went in the same path, magic in this game is dull. I guess it’s a charm of next-gen MMO’s, goodbye sweet mana, goodbye sweet mana potions

lilstev.3498:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tCD-PEOyehM/TacRYxzOIzI/AAAAAAAAAKY/k3jZoyD8yKE/s1600/tumblr_ljafd8dhX51qaz0qto1_500.jpg

See I knew he was real!

OMG Life hax!

you say doesnì’t feel like a real mage… who said that “real” mages uses casting times when they perform magics? i always imagined “real” mages to be that powerful that they can perform magic with no words or stupid ingredients, they are just magic vessels. and there is no real reason for them to stand still while doing so

There are a lot of magic systems in the fantasy genre — almost as many as there are authors (or game designers, or script writers) who create fantasy books, games and movies. In some of them, casting involves time. In some, casting can be done while doing acrobatics and swinging a sword. In still others, some spells can be done while moving energetically, whereas other spells require a ritual, taking time. Magic in the PNP game Mage, the Ascension is purely a matter of will applied to one’s understanding of the various principles of magic.

In other words, there is no hard and fast rule as to how magic works. GW2’s magic draws from different inspirations than magic in other games.

Actually, casters ‘not feeling like casters’ is one of the things I love about the game. Maybe it’s because I have such a long history of playing those ‘traditional’ fantasy games that others have mentioned, but I love that my Mesmer can run and dodge while casting, and I really love that he can use swords and mix it up in melee (In fact, he’s both my artificer and my weaponsmith, which I thought worked well with this swordsman/mage concept). I’ve played greatsword and dual-sword builds on him just for the beauty of it. Blurred Frenzy fills me with glee (Admittedly, slightly less glee now than it did when I would see the word “Invulnerable” floating above his head, but there’s still some glee there.)

Plus, it’s way more realistic, right? I mean, Gandalf wields both a sword and staff!

So it seems like people just want spells to feel very different from other skills, besides the animations. It seems they want to have a tangible resource from which to draw power for these magical abilities (mana). Problem is, this game simply isn’t designed to have that mechanic in it. Mana would be an attrition mechanic, and as such nearly every skill in the game would have to be rebalanced around it. And I think we can all agree the game already has balance issues to worry about. Anet cut the whole mana idea out of the game back in alpha through their iterative process, and it’s just not going to come back.

2+ second activation time skills + animation Rootings, simply aren’t feasible in a PvP action game, especially one where people can dodge instantly. Infact it’s not even viable in the upper tiers of PVE either where you somtimes have to interrupt your own 0.75 second attacks just to dodge one of their big 1.25_sec telegraphed Attacks…

Anyone who’s NOT thinking about all this stuff in 0.25 sec increments, yeah, probably SHOULD go back to playing a slower game… like that new Cartoony Borderlands MMO NC is siphoning profits away for…. b/c there’s going to be a lot of skill-ceilings you’ll just crash head-on into in later content that will be added to this game in atleast the immediate 18 months ahead.. (or already exists in places like Arah but most people never see it b/c it’s not “rewarding” enough yet).

and who determines what a “real” mage is?

ilr.9675:

yeah, probably SHOULD go back to playing a slower game… like that new Cartoony Borderlands MMO NC is siphoning profits away for….

hmm, I don’t know about that. It looks like it will have very similar combat as GW2 does, except with the trinity in place.

Extrema.9184:

First of all it wasn’t meant as a complaint just a mere observation (i have been playing this game for a long time just playing melee which is fine). I was just wondering why the casters in this game aren’t really casting anything and why this is different than your typical mmo. But seeing some of your reactions i guess i wasn’t allowed to express my feeling about the GW2 caster classes :/

Nah, you’re fine. Your first post sounded like a complaint not just an observation.

Personally I love GW2 combat. It’ll be hard playing the standard turn based, tab targeting again.

ilr.9675:

2+ second activation time skills + animation Rootings, simply aren’t feasible in a PvP action game, especially one where people can dodge instantly. Infact it’s not even viable in the upper tiers of PVE either where you somtimes have to interrupt your own 0.75 second attacks just to dodge one of their big 1.25_sec telegraphed Attacks…

Anyone who’s NOT thinking about all this stuff in 0.25 sec increments, yeah, probably SHOULD go back to playing a slower game… like that new Cartoony Borderlands MMO NC is siphoning profits away for…. b/c there’s going to be a lot of skill-ceilings you’ll just crash head-on into in later content that will be added to this game in atleast the immediate 18 months ahead.. (or already exists in places like Arah but most people never see it b/c it’s not “rewarding” enough yet).

Am I right in inferring you don’t like the look of that new cartoony borderlands mmo? If so, can we be friends? All of my friends seem to have quietly lost their minds and fell in love with that catastrophe-waiting-to-happen. So I need new friends…

I agree OP. Ele was my first class in this game and I main a D/D spec. And honestly I feel more like a ninja with magically enchanted daggers that shoot stuff than a spell caster.

And I can breath fire!

But there is nothing “caster” feeling or “wizardly” feeling about it. My mage characters, or wizards from D&D laugh at this little man who has to jump all around flipping and rolling in the dirt to compete in combat. While they cast a single spell from miles away to devastate their foes.

The “wizard” was generally the knowledgeable, wise, older person who while generally more “frail” than the other adventuring archetypes were very powerful when they started using their magic. In GW the wizards are melee fighters that just use enchanted weapons, they sprint around the battle field rolling on the ground and shooting spells out of their stabby stabby daggers while shouting about how their power is a tidal wave.

I love my elementalist, but I decided long ago he was about as much a wizard as my guardian… Actually I take that back. My guardian actually does cast spells and has not 1 but 2 spell books.

I don´t know about you, but I certainly haven´t cast a single spell in my life nor do I know any mages personally, so I have no idea what casting a spell would “feel like” in real life. As for different games, well, they are different, why would GW2 have to be the same?

The term “cast” itself suggests something that takes time – involving gestures, incantation, etc. And that is a standard trope for magic users in books and games. I know what the OP means – something is gained by the action combat, but also something is lost.

One of my favourite “magic user” animations of all time was one of the Loremaster spells in LOTRO (forget which one), it just screamed “magic user” – the animation was you whipped out a book, and waved your wand about in the air for a few seconds while reading it. i.e. your eyes were actually on the book, you were READING a spell, and WAVING your magic wand – and then you THRUST the wand in the direction of your opponent, and BOOM (I think the spell was “Cracked Earth”).

Perfect! I never felt more like a “magic user” than when playing the Loremaster

Mesmer is quite “magic user” feeling, but more because of the tinkly, moaney, purple butterfly-ey graphics fx and sound fx.

Wonder if anyone will get the text reference

You can always stand still to cast your spells if you want.

@OP, use a staff. or dont move while you’re casting. problem solved.

Casters in WoW can move while casting to a varying degree, with Warlocks and Shamans almost never having to stop and cast in place.

Anyways, in older MMOs, what makes skills stand out is their properties. An instant spell is special because it doesn’t have a cast time. A spell that you can cast while moving is unique because of that.

When nearly every skill in the game is instant on the move, they do lose that distinction. Not saying its a good or bad thing, just stating it as it is.

Wukunlin.8461:

Some skill in this game do have rather long cast time, for example, light of deliverance – a guardian skill has 4 seconds cast time. Some skills root you in place while channeling (moving interrupts the skill), some don’t.

Another thing about this game is that, there really isn’t such things as “castor classes,” “range classes,” etc. Every class has a blend of everything but still different from one another.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject.

Amadan.9451:

you say doesnì’t feel like a real mage… who said that “real” mages uses casting times when they perform magics? i always imagined “real” mages to be that powerful that they can perform magic with no words or stupid ingredients, they are just magic vessels. and there is no real reason for them to stand still while doing so

This is how I always imagined it too.

I understand what the OP means but I don’t think it applies to every game/fantasy world. Different worlds (games) have different means of magic. And that goes for more then just magic, but the application of science and other things that has been added in slowly over the years. Fantasy is not so simple anymore.

Saelune.5316:

Would you prefer having limited spells per day like in DnD? GW2 is supposed to be on the fast paced side. Casters are squishy enough, dont have time to sit still and cast a spell so we can get smacked full of swords.

Could you imagine the chaos if GW2 used the Vancian (D&D) spell system and the friendly fire conditions? It would be a fun experiment lol

Anyone remember vanilla Everquest, where casters had to replenish their mana by staring at their spell book? Sometimes for five minutes at a pop.