Guild Wars 2

Why do people assume that if you’re a casual player, you want and love extremely easy face roll, press auto attack read Facebook and watch TV content?

I play GW2 (PvE) casually and only high level FOTMs, one daily run (more or ekittenun takes approximately one hour) and I’m done with the PvE and either move to WvW or log out.
I haven’t even touched the new Living Story, but since it’s supposedly permanent, I’ll maybe give it a try sometime later.

That’s a really good question. I don’t mind some challenging content either. But on that note, I also don’t want challenging content all the time.

I think most people who self-identify as casuals like to bang around doing easy stuff until they’re in the mood for something that challenges them.

Casual is an approach to the game as well as a skill setting. Casual people take a casual approach. They’re not hard core. You sound a bit like you need to be challenged in a hard core manner. Not all of us do, though, and certainly not constantly.

It is not about easy casual = easy content, its about content accessibility. The problem with difficulty in gw2 is the core promise that you dont have to wait to have fun. Now I know a lot of people said thats a lie because it takes a really really long time to fully gear in Ascended armor but what they refuse to see is that there are multiple roads that lead to rome so to speak.

Gw2 maintains that promise by making ascended optional. Even Exotic is optional. Hey for the longest time I was playing PvE using a Rare MF focused gear and would use exotics only for WvW and Dungeons. The problem with difficulty is to maintain this paradigm they have to balance for rare or at most exotic which of course means anyone in full ascended will have an easy time.

Now Fractals was a brilliant way to solve the issue. Low or High level you have the same content and more or less the same rewards but a higher chance.

So I can see them adding hard content to fractals but its tricky to do it anywhere else for the reason above.

And dont get me wrong I would love some hard content (ideally balanced for exotics ) everywhere, I am not against it on the contrary it something I want very much. I am only saying the challenge i see them having if they want to do something like this.

For the same reason people equate “casual” to “bad.” It’s a stereotype. Unfortunately, like with most stereotypes, many people can’t be bothered with forming an actual opinion of their own.

Of course, it doesn’t help that the term “casual” tends to vary (sometimes drastically) from person to person.

By one definition, I’m a very casual player. By another, I’m a ‘hard core player.’ That’s part of the issue with trying to categorize and label things though. Rarely does something actually wholly fit into one category.

Anyway, I agree with the basic statement that just because a person is a casual player doesn’t necessarily mean they want superbly easy content. Conversely it also doesn’t mean that they want stressful, frustratingly hard content all the time either. But, I think that applies to most people. We need a mix of both, because sometimes we want ‘hard’ and sometimes we just want ‘goof off’ type stuff.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

For the same reason people equate “casual” to “bad.” It’s a stereotype. Unfortunately, like with most stereotypes, many people can’t be bothered with forming an actual opinion of their own.

Of course, it doesn’t help that the term “casual” tends to vary (sometimes drastically) from person to person.

By one definition, I’m a very casual player. By another, I’m a ‘hard core player.’ That’s part of the issue with trying to categorize and label things though. Rarely does something actually wholly fit into one category.

Anyway, I agree with the basic statement that just because a person is a casual player doesn’t necessarily mean they want superbly easy content. Conversely it also doesn’t mean that they want stressful, frustratingly hard content all the time either. But, I think that applies to most people. We need a mix of both, because sometimes we want ‘hard’ and sometimes we just want ‘goof off’ type stuff.

Pretty much this. Well said.

I think casual = not much time to play, has long change, and is no longer a correct definition of “casual play”. why?

because you don’t consider Sims gamers “hardcore”. Nor would you consider people who play HOG’s hardcore?
why not?

As a casual gamer, I don’t want challenging content. I’m the one who will always hit easy mode on game that offers it.
I game for 5 hours a day, most days.

I’m not saying all casual players don’t feel like doing something hardcore once an awhile.

But casual play is a playstyle, not how much time you have to play. And most casual players don’t want liadri type content. They don’t want to things that are stressful and frustrating.
Things like the new JP, is about as difficult as we want things to be. Or Nochtli. Any more than that and moves into “frustrating” category. And it’s not what casual gamers want.

I would guess that you are actually more of a hardcore player who doesn’t play alot.

I’m not against adding some hardcore content, but there’s a fine line between adding a challenge and kittening off your casual playerbase.

btw, just how rarely harder content is completed will show the majority of people don’t want it. It can’t reward too well or..it kittenes off the casual playerbase.
So it’s a difficult line for anet to thread. (Casual are generally the ones who also spend the most money, they’re the collectors and the explorers, they’re the costume wearers and role players. )
So again, it’s not easy to add harder content (that’s still rewarding) and not create elitism/isolating experience for casual players.

Yep, I find as I get older, my frustration levels go up with it. Sort of why the grumpy old man cliche exists.

So you know, I play around with hard content sometimes, but I don’t want to spend time banging my head against a wall. I’ve had enough of that in life, working in whatever job I was working in. Life was frustrating enough.

When I came home, I wanted to relax, kick back, chill out. Really hard content doesn’t relax me and part of why I play games is to relax.

Everyone’s definition of “casual” and “hardcore” are different. Welcome to academia.

There’s no reason we can’t have both in the same game. People who advocate the complete removal or trivialization of one type of content in favor of the other need to shove off. Whether it’s hardcore players lamenting the “dumbing down” of content, or casuals screaming for “nerfs” to hard content they feel entitled to, its all the same: One group trying to curtail another group which they have no business.

It’s like fundamentalist religious people trying to snuff out gay marriage. They have no business preventing other human beings from finding happiness.

Challenging content does not have to equal frustrating content. Challenge can be fun and engaging IF it is designed well.

Xenon.4537:

Everyone’s definition of “casual” and “hardcore” are different. Welcome to academia.

There’s no reason we can’t have both in the same game. People who advocate the complete removal or trivialization of one type of content in favor of the other need to shove off. Whether it’s hardcore players lamenting the “dumbing down” of content, or casuals screaming for “nerfs” to hard content they feel entitled to, its all the same: One group trying to curtail another group which they have no business.

It’s like fundamentalist religious people trying to snuff out gay marriage. They have no business preventing other human beings from finding happiness.

Nah, it’s really nothing like analogy. That deals with real life stuff that affects people forever. The thing is, there are hard core games made to be hard core (like EVE online) and there are more casual games. Designers need to stay true to their visions.

Someone posted elsewhere that Lotro stopped adding raids to new content, because it wasn’t worth creating raids for 2% of the population. I don’t know if it’s true, but it’s very similar to some of the statistics I’ve read over the years about how many people actually do the hard content.

Development time is limited. So naturally people are going to barrack for the type of content they want in the game. I’m going to ask for more content that appeals to me, because that’s the content I’m interested in. It’s like we’re lobbyists. But we don’t make the decisions.

If Anet thinks that more hard core content is needed, Anet will add more hard core content. If people who want hard core content don’t get enough of it, they’ll leave the game. I’m convinced many have left this game for the reason that there’s not enough hard core content for them. The thing is, because they are a minority it’s harder to find games that have that kind of content. You can’t blame a developer for making content that will be used by a bigger percent of the player base.

And you can’t really blame people for asking for stuff they want to see in the game.

Xenon.4537:

Everyone’s definition of “casual” and “hardcore” are different. Welcome to academia.

However, when you point to games, almost everyone’s label of them being “hardcore/casual” will be the same.

My points. “The Sims”. “Fable” “Darksouls”

It’s easier to define casual/hardcore, when you look at the games casuals tend to play and the games that are considered “hardcore”..
The few where this becomes more difficult is games with easy/hard modes.

Anet has the numbers on how many people play what type of content. This is what will be the ultimate decider in the content they bring out. Whether its what you want or not.
__
more casual please <3

Also for the one that said “challenging doesn’t have to be frustrating”. That’s VERY subjective.
To me anything that kicks my kitten over and over again, is frustrating. It is also challenging. If it wasn’t it wouldn’t kick my kitten so often.
I agree, that for example aetherblade jp can be frustrating because it’s punishing if you mess up, rather than just repetitive. But tbh, I’d be at a loss describing challenging content that isn’t frustrating. If you could please give an example?
__
lolz, I don’t want my poor kitten kicked around. <3

There’s another side to this coin. What is challenging content? I’m pretty sure different people have different definitions.

To some people, AC is challenging content.

Mac.3872:

Challenging content does not have to equal frustrating content. Challenge can be fun and engaging IF it is designed well.

In MMOs my experience was most of the times whenever players cried for moar challenge that the following happend :

Mobs have way more HPs.
Mobs hit much harder, even more one-hit kills.
Mobs have more annyoing CCs that disable you all the time

All in all for me that makes fights just more annoying or / and frustrating and so i’m always against “moar challenge” whenever i see people cry for that.

Also a challenge for me is fine ONCE .. however if you have beaten it i mostly don’t want to do it again. Now MMOs however are mostly about repeatable stuff and most people don’t really want a hard challenge on every mob they farm.

Hey .. i mean ANet can with no problems make any Champ like the ones from the Guild Events .. i bet that would be the quickest way to destroy the champ train in Frostgorge if every Champ suddenly is like Teesa.

casual is both fun and challenging, dungeons fail in that while JP’s are likely made exactly for casuals…..except for some JP’s that are not really JP’s but BP’s(battle puzzle).

dungeons fail in this because it doesn’t offer anything really fun, just a bunch of overpowered enemies only a group can compete against.
it also fails because it allows the option of rushing trough it, if it had some co-op puzzles it would make dungeons allot more casual and fun to do.
you might be against it because it slows down speed runs but be honest, a dungeon is made to have fun and to enjoy an adventure and no amount of speed runs are gonna have a priority above the main objective of a dungeon.

anyway, i would like to have some things to do within a fun and challenging way, it doesn’t have to be with monsters but with some challenging puzzles or an adventure that makes you think to get out.
better yet, i hope they’re gonna make something that doesn’t have any enemy at all, something that allows more cooperation and rewards the team for it’s good jup working together.

sorudo.9054:

dungeons fail in this because it doesn’t offer anything really fun, just a bunch of overpowered enemies only a group can compete against.

Yeah .. one of the many reasons i never understood the whole dungeon concept in MMOs. On one hand you should be something like a hero .. but every stupid henchmen in a Dungeon hits 5 times harder than you and has 20 times more hitpoints

Heck you can’t even kill a rat or a beetle in a dungeon alone.

Beldin.5498:

sorudo.9054:

dungeons fail in this because it doesn’t offer anything really fun, just a bunch of overpowered enemies only a group can compete against.

Yeah .. one of the many reasons i never understood the whole dungeon concept in MMOs. On one hand you should be something like a hero .. but every stupid henchmen in a Dungeon hits 5 times harder than you and has 20 times more hitpoints

Heck you can’t even kill a rat or a beetle in a dungeon alone.

ironically GW1 did dungeons quite well (except for exile), it’s filled with normal enemies but the circumstances are what makes it challenging.

sorudo.9054:

Beldin.5498:

sorudo.9054:

dungeons fail in this because it doesn’t offer anything really fun, just a bunch of overpowered enemies only a group can compete against.

Yeah .. one of the many reasons i never understood the whole dungeon concept in MMOs. On one hand you should be something like a hero .. but every stupid henchmen in a Dungeon hits 5 times harder than you and has 20 times more hitpoints

Heck you can’t even kill a rat or a beetle in a dungeon alone.

ironically GW1 did dungeons quite well (except for exile), it’s filled with normal enemies but the circumstances are what makes it challenging.

Would be maybe much better here also since we don’t have a trinity and i think those overpowered mobs are more a result of trinity gameplay in EQ and all its clones.

I think it depends on what you consider “casual”. I consider myself a casual player only because of time commited to the game. I work full time and have a husband and grown kids. I usually can’t play more than 1-1.5 hours per night – some nights not at all – and maybe 4 hours per day on the weekend. That doesn’t mean I don’t like tougher content. I love WvW and being challenged, but at the same time don’t have hours to spend waiting just to try to get in to kill Teq or 3 headed wurm, so do not participate in that “hard” content.

I often don’t do the LS because it’s just too time consuming, so I am also happy it can be done anytime now.

I don’t know why some people believe “casual” = I only want to spam 1. I personally couldn’t think of anything more boring and tedious. The only time I do that kind of thing is if I have to jump in the champ train to get some gold; though thankfully I don’t even do that now thanks to nerfs. Anyway, just because I’m not top of the leaderboards or on esport PvP, doesn’t mean I don’t like a challenge.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

I think it depends on what you consider “casual”. I consider myself a casual player only because of time commited to the game. I work full time and have a husband and grown kids. I usually can’t play more than 1-1.5 hours per night – some nights not at all – and maybe 4 hours per day on the weekend. That doesn’t mean I don’t like tougher content. I love WvW and being challenged, but at the same time don’t have hours to spend waiting just to try to get in to kill Teq or 3 headed wurm, so do not participate in that “hard” content.

I often don’t do the LS because it’s just too time consuming, so I am also happy it can be done anytime now.

I don’t know why some people believe “casual” = I only want to spam 1. I personally couldn’t think of anything more boring and tedious. The only time I do that kind of thing is if I have to jump in the champ train to get some gold; though thankfully I don’t even do that now thanks to nerfs. Anyway, just because I’m not top of the leaderboards or on esport PvP, doesn’t mean I don’t like a challenge.

Read my post above.

We need to stop trying to describe casual vs hardcore as time commitment thing and start looking at as a playstyle thing.

Taygus.4571:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

I think it depends on what you consider “casual”. I consider myself a casual player only because of time commited to the game. I work full time and have a husband and grown kids. I usually can’t play more than 1-1.5 hours per night – some nights not at all – and maybe 4 hours per day on the weekend. That doesn’t mean I don’t like tougher content. I love WvW and being challenged, but at the same time don’t have hours to spend waiting just to try to get in to kill Teq or 3 headed wurm, so do not participate in that “hard” content.

I often don’t do the LS because it’s just too time consuming, so I am also happy it can be done anytime now.

I don’t know why some people believe “casual” = I only want to spam 1. I personally couldn’t think of anything more boring and tedious. The only time I do that kind of thing is if I have to jump in the champ train to get some gold; though thankfully I don’t even do that now thanks to nerfs. Anyway, just because I’m not top of the leaderboards or on esport PvP, doesn’t mean I don’t like a challenge.

Read my post above.

We need to stop trying to describe casual vs hardcore as time commitment thing and start looking at as a playstyle thing.

No what we need to do is stop trying to label and categorize. As I pointed out previously, nothing ever wholly fits into the category you try to shove it into.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Taygus.4571:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

I think it depends on what you consider “casual”. I consider myself a casual player only because of time commited to the game. I work full time and have a husband and grown kids. I usually can’t play more than 1-1.5 hours per night – some nights not at all – and maybe 4 hours per day on the weekend. That doesn’t mean I don’t like tougher content. I love WvW and being challenged, but at the same time don’t have hours to spend waiting just to try to get in to kill Teq or 3 headed wurm, so do not participate in that “hard” content.

I often don’t do the LS because it’s just too time consuming, so I am also happy it can be done anytime now.

I don’t know why some people believe “casual” = I only want to spam 1. I personally couldn’t think of anything more boring and tedious. The only time I do that kind of thing is if I have to jump in the champ train to get some gold; though thankfully I don’t even do that now thanks to nerfs. Anyway, just because I’m not top of the leaderboards or on esport PvP, doesn’t mean I don’t like a challenge.

Read my post above.

We need to stop trying to describe casual vs hardcore as time commitment thing and start looking at as a playstyle thing.

No what we need to do is stop trying to label and categorize. As I pointed out previously, nothing ever wholly fits into the category you try to shove it into.

No, but categories help with understanding. They help when looking for something. IE. I never look at games that are considered hardcore…because I know I won’t like that kind of content.

There’s nothing wrong with labels, but labels should make sense. And time commitment isn’t one. As can simply say “I want hard content that doesn’t take hours to complete.”(could still take hours to succeed ..like liadri.)
Having labels isn’t a bad thing. Having a single definition for those labels is important though.

Vayne.8563:

Xenon.4537:

Everyone’s definition of “casual” and “hardcore” are different. Welcome to academia.

There’s no reason we can’t have both in the same game. People who advocate the complete removal or trivialization of one type of content in favor of the other need to shove off. Whether it’s hardcore players lamenting the “dumbing down” of content, or casuals screaming for “nerfs” to hard content they feel entitled to, its all the same: One group trying to curtail another group which they have no business.

It’s like fundamentalist religious people trying to snuff out gay marriage. They have no business preventing other human beings from finding happiness.

Nah, it’s really nothing like analogy. That deals with real life stuff that affects people forever. The thing is, there are hard core games made to be hard core (like EVE online) and there are more casual games. Designers need to stay true to their visions.

Someone posted elsewhere that Lotro stopped adding raids to new content, because it wasn’t worth creating raids for 2% of the population. I don’t know if it’s true, but it’s very similar to some of the statistics I’ve read over the years about how many people actually do the hard content.

Development time is limited. So naturally people are going to barrack for the type of content they want in the game. I’m going to ask for more content that appeals to me, because that’s the content I’m interested in. It’s like we’re lobbyists. But we don’t make the decisions.

If Anet thinks that more hard core content is needed, Anet will add more hard core content. If people who want hard core content don’t get enough of it, they’ll leave the game. I’m convinced many have left this game for the reason that there’s not enough hard core content for them. The thing is, because they are a minority it’s harder to find games that have that kind of content. You can’t blame a developer for making content that will be used by a bigger percent of the player base.

And you can’t really blame people for asking for stuff they want to see in the game.

Since Turbine made that announcement their log-in figures have dropped to an ALL TIME low.

[url=http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Turbined[/url]

Vayne.8563:

The thing is, there are hard core games made to be hard core (like EVE online)

That right there is what I’m talking about. I don’t consider EVE to be a hardcore game. My definition of hardcore is different. I’ve never played EVE but I’ve heard about it. As far as I can tell it’s a game where you spend most of your time waiting for actions to be completed and timers to run out. It’s a time grind. Okay so it’s hardcore in that it takes some massive intestinal fortitude to get through all that time sink and still have your sanity. However, my definition of hardcore deals more with the actual challenge. See Dark Souls. This is what an academic debate is all about: definitions.

And you can’t really blame people for asking for stuff they want to see in the game.

I don’t blame people for want. Indeed Life is the curse of Want. I simply take issue when folks try to snuff out a specific thing because they don’t like it. For instance how many challenging world bosses do we have? Honestly there’s only Triple Trouble. Anyone with reasonable experience will admit Teq is too easy and Karka Queen is a joke. Casuals calling for a nerf to Triple Trouble just because they feel entitled to the rewards and don’t feel like making the “extraordinary effort” to put together an organized raid (you know, the way the “hardcores” do it) is just silly. That’s asking to snuff out the one bit of reasonably hardcore content in the name of entitlement. There’s always other easier world bosses for casual folks to participate in. Leave Triple Trouble alone. Same goes for people demanding removal of jumping from Dry Top, and other such nonsense.

On the flipside, I can agree with casual players in that not every single thing in the game needs to be like Dark Souls. The only reason you don’t see me defending the casual side often is that there is already plenty of casual content in the game.

See I’m kind of lost on this thread. I’m just not sure what the OP is asking for. Every bit of content in GW2 is extremely easy to step into. some of it is easy, some of it is hard, but all of it is easy to walk up and try. Whether you fail or not is another story. The only exception is high level Fractals which require AR. A single niche dungeon doesn’t discount the existence of all the other content, however. So the argument about casual =/= easy is moot.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

No what we need to do is stop trying to label and categorize. As I pointed out previously, nothing ever wholly fits into the category you try to shove it into.

I think you should start defining the categories you are arguing for. Everyone has their own opinion of the definition of the word.

I define casual friendly as game content which is not artificially block by time investment for pre requisites such as gear, level or long chain of needless content

However, casual player are commonly used in a derogatory sense that they are players who will spit at the game because they have an utter refusal to learn to play. Sometimes they demand the game to be changed because they found another game that has feature that work well although adding that particular feature will ruin the game they wanted to change.

/cringe

loseridoit.2756:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

No what we need to do is stop trying to label and categorize. As I pointed out previously, nothing ever wholly fits into the category you try to shove it into.

I think you should start defining the categories you are arguing for. Everyone has their own opinion of the definition of the word.

I define casual friendly as game content which is not artificially block by time investment for pre requisites such as gear, level or long chain of needless content

However, casual player are commonly used in a derogatory sense that they are players who will spit at the game because they have an utter refusal to learn to play. Sometimes they demand the game to be changed because they found another game that has feature that work well although adding that particular feature will ruin the game they wanted to change.

/cringe

You just made my point for me actually, about not trying to categorize because people define things differently. Especially when it comes to ‘hardcore’ and ‘casual’ group definitions.

You define casual differently than how Taygus defines it. Someone else here defines it simply on not having x+ hours a day to invest. Yes, typically they all have some commonality, (which is how sterotypes are born) but they are not all wholly the same thing.

Taygus wants to classify based on play style, while another wants to classify by time. Whose right and whose wrong in this instance? What if Taygus determines people who play content ‘a’ are hardcore, and people that play content ‘b’ are casual. If the person that defines ‘casual’ by play time actually does content ‘a’ does that then make them ‘hardcore.’? Why is their definition suddenly wrong? What of the person that does both and then some? What are they?

Its like trying to say because someone is black they are in a gang, wear their pants around their knees, and are going to rob the nearest convenience store. Or that because you’re white and female you couldn’t possibly have the knowledge needed to maintain your own vehicle.

In my opinion, it all really comes down to time. Casual means being able to start and finish content within a smaller time frame. Difficulty is irrelevant IMO. Gauntlet was difficult content but great for casuals because you could play at your leisure. Only have 15min or so to play? You could jump in and do a couple of fights.

You start to lose the casuals when content requires a large time-investment. That’s why most casuals aren’t doing high level FoTM, or FoTM at all—if it takes ~1hr that’s too long for a casual player in most cases. Or why most casuals in other MMOs aren’t doing raids. Just too much time commitment. They need to be able to stop abruptly if say someone comes to the door or a child requires attention and not have wasted the time they had just invested in whatever activity they started.

You can be a skilled player and casual. All comes down to time.

Here is urban dictionary` definition of casual gamers

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=casual+gamer

Mac.3872:

Here is urban dictionary` definition of casual gamers

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=casual+gamer

Gee that’s not derogatory at all.. /end sarcasm

Beldin.5498:

ironically GW1 did dungeons quite well (except for exile), it’s filled with normal enemies but the circumstances are what makes it challenging.

Would be maybe much better here also since we don’t have a trinity and i think those overpowered mobs are more a result of trinity gameplay in EQ and all its clones.
[/quote]

It really is. But that’s a topic I’m sure is covered time and again elsewhere. Six know I’ve done it enough. :\

Anyroad, I hate this casual vs hardcore snitfest that shows up in every MMO. Without “casual” players who faff about and take their time getting to end-game content, the game wouldn’t exist. They’re the ones paying the most. (Might work a tad different in the GW2 model, as I see the most dedicated players, casual or not, being the ones paying for outfits/gold, instead of the casual-subscriber dominance.) The “hardcore” players are the ones that end-game goals are designed for. Their influence gives the rest of us something to aim for above dailies and festivals.

It’s a weird, finicky symbiosis.

And I’d wager self-identified hardcore players aren’t all that “hardcore,” they’re just well-practiced and optimize for gear. Once out of that element, this is where you end up seeing the “dead-zerker” that people skitten at, perhaps a bit unfairly.
There’s also “casual” players who pop on every kitten day, but don’t have the hours and hours to chug into the game. They can be quite good, know the ins and outs, and search for fun, usually non-grindy things to do with their time.
So, casual vs hardcore isn’t about skill, it’s just parallel to it. It’s about time investment.

And both ‘sides’ want due rewards for their time. Rewards behind hard content versus something one can get by collecting a few tokens every day. Stuff like that.

Should it be “easy”? …eh, not in MMO-land, no. Easy means quickly forgotten.
But worse, easy means “not engaging.” And that is the crux of it.

Content needs to be engaging, and that happens with agency. Not, sadly, by following around faux-Destiny’s Edge and listening to them chatter then clicking on stuff, then more chatter, etc… I digress a bit.

tl;dr – We don’t necessarily need “easy” or “hard,” we need interesting.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

Here is urban dictionary` definition of casual gamers

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=casual+gamer

Gee that’s not derogatory at all.. /end sarcasm

Fell free to up vote or down vote their definitions as you see fit. The more people who vote, the closer we come to a universally accepted definition of a casual gamer.

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

Here is urban dictionary` definition of casual gamers

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=casual+gamer

Gee that’s not derogatory at all.. /end sarcasm

Fell free to up vote or down vote their definitions as you see fit. The more people who vote, the closer we come to a universally accepted definition of a casual gamer.

The fact that I can only down vote some of those once is appalling. The tone of many of those posts should drive home how seriously sad our society has become. And yet we still continue to wonder why people prefer to play with AI rather than actual people…

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

Here is urban dictionary` definition of casual gamers

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=casual+gamer

Gee that’s not derogatory at all.. /end sarcasm

Fell free to up vote or down vote their definitions as you see fit. The more people who vote, the closer we come to a universally accepted definition of a casual gamer.

The fact that I can only down vote some of those once is appalling. The tone of many of those posts should drive home how seriously sad our society has become. And yet we still continue to wonder why people prefer to play with AI rather than actual people…

Im sorry if the popular definition dose not suit your world view. (Something you will find happens a lot so get used to it).

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

Here is urban dictionary` definition of casual gamers

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=casual+gamer

Gee that’s not derogatory at all.. /end sarcasm

Fell free to up vote or down vote their definitions as you see fit. The more people who vote, the closer we come to a universally accepted definition of a casual gamer.

The fact that I can only down vote some of those once is appalling. The tone of many of those posts should drive home how seriously sad our society has become. And yet we still continue to wonder why people prefer to play with AI rather than actual people…

Im sorry if the popular definition dose not suit your world view. (Something you will find happens a lot so get used to it).

lol yes because the “world” relies on urban dictionary for it’s definitions.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

Here is urban dictionary` definition of casual gamers

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=casual+gamer

Gee that’s not derogatory at all.. /end sarcasm

Fell free to up vote or down vote their definitions as you see fit. The more people who vote, the closer we come to a universally accepted definition of a casual gamer.

The fact that I can only down vote some of those once is appalling. The tone of many of those posts should drive home how seriously sad our society has become. And yet we still continue to wonder why people prefer to play with AI rather than actual people…

Im sorry if the popular definition dose not suit your world view. (Something you will find happens a lot so get used to it).

lol yes because the “world” relies on urban dictionary for it’s definitions.

Ridicule the source all you like.

Mac.3872:

Here is urban dictionary` definition of casual gamers

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=casual+gamer

2,3,4 and 5 is completely BS, i am as casual as anyone can be yet i outperform in any.
i rather use a PC because it is allot better then any console can ever be, i play casual games…..that’s why it’s called a casual game and not a hardcore game.
i can, at times, outperform a hardcore player simply because i learn faster and before i forget, i laugh at hardcore players because they’re wasting their time while i have all the time on the world.

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

Here is urban dictionary` definition of casual gamers

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=casual+gamer

Gee that’s not derogatory at all.. /end sarcasm

Fell free to up vote or down vote their definitions as you see fit. The more people who vote, the closer we come to a universally accepted definition of a casual gamer.

The fact that I can only down vote some of those once is appalling. The tone of many of those posts should drive home how seriously sad our society has become. And yet we still continue to wonder why people prefer to play with AI rather than actual people…

Im sorry if the popular definition dose not suit your world view. (Something you will find happens a lot so get used to it).

lol yes because the “world” relies on urban dictionary for it’s definitions.

Ridicule the source all you like.

wait, you mean because like 300 or so people who bothered voting up rude comments/and those posting, represent the world view?

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

Here is urban dictionary` definition of casual gamers

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=casual+gamer

Gee that’s not derogatory at all.. /end sarcasm

Fell free to up vote or down vote their definitions as you see fit. The more people who vote, the closer we come to a universally accepted definition of a casual gamer.

The fact that I can only down vote some of those once is appalling. The tone of many of those posts should drive home how seriously sad our society has become. And yet we still continue to wonder why people prefer to play with AI rather than actual people…

Im sorry if the popular definition dose not suit your world view. (Something you will find happens a lot so get used to it).

lol yes because the “world” relies on urban dictionary for it’s definitions.

Ridicule the source all you like.

Citing urban dictionary is like citing wikipedia. It’s kind of frowned upon in serious academic circles.

sorudo.9054:

Mac.3872:

Here is urban dictionary` definition of casual gamers

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=casual+gamer

2,3,4 and 5 is completely BS, i am as casual as anyone can be yet i outperform in any.
i rather use a PC because it is allot better then any console can ever be, i play casual games…..that’s why it’s called a casual game and not a hardcore game.
i can, at times, outperform a hardcore player simply because i learn faster and before i forget, i laugh at hardcore players because they’re wasting their time while i have all the time on the world.

I love your definiton of a casual game. : a casual is….. not a hadrcore game. Thanks for clearing that up.

Hardcore players have all the time in the world too. THEY just choose to spend it in-game where they contribute to the community, economy and over-all health of the game. We should thank them for keeping your game alive and persistent. Laughing at them is maybe a little selfish

Xenon.4537:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

Here is urban dictionary` definition of casual gamers

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=casual+gamer

Gee that’s not derogatory at all.. /end sarcasm

Fell free to up vote or down vote their definitions as you see fit. The more people who vote, the closer we come to a universally accepted definition of a casual gamer.

The fact that I can only down vote some of those once is appalling. The tone of many of those posts should drive home how seriously sad our society has become. And yet we still continue to wonder why people prefer to play with AI rather than actual people…

Im sorry if the popular definition dose not suit your world view. (Something you will find happens a lot so get used to it).

lol yes because the “world” relies on urban dictionary for it’s definitions.

Ridicule the source all you like.

Citing urban dictionary is like citing wikipedia. It’s kind of frowned upon in serious academic circles.

Gw2 forums: the home of academic discussion!

Mac.3872:

Xenon.4537:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

Here is urban dictionary` definition of casual gamers

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=casual+gamer

Gee that’s not derogatory at all.. /end sarcasm

Fell free to up vote or down vote their definitions as you see fit. The more people who vote, the closer we come to a universally accepted definition of a casual gamer.

The fact that I can only down vote some of those once is appalling. The tone of many of those posts should drive home how seriously sad our society has become. And yet we still continue to wonder why people prefer to play with AI rather than actual people…

Im sorry if the popular definition dose not suit your world view. (Something you will find happens a lot so get used to it).

lol yes because the “world” relies on urban dictionary for it’s definitions.

Ridicule the source all you like.

Citing urban dictionary is like citing wikipedia. It’s kind of frowned upon in serious academic circles.

Gw2 forums: the home of academic discussion!

See, you laugh at it when it’s the GW2 forums. What makes urban dictionary so different? What makes that website any more the authority than this one?

Xenon.4537:

Mac.3872:

Xenon.4537:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

Here is urban dictionary` definition of casual gamers

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=casual+gamer

Gee that’s not derogatory at all.. /end sarcasm

Fell free to up vote or down vote their definitions as you see fit. The more people who vote, the closer we come to a universally accepted definition of a casual gamer.

The fact that I can only down vote some of those once is appalling. The tone of many of those posts should drive home how seriously sad our society has become. And yet we still continue to wonder why people prefer to play with AI rather than actual people…

Im sorry if the popular definition dose not suit your world view. (Something you will find happens a lot so get used to it).

lol yes because the “world” relies on urban dictionary for it’s definitions.

Ridicule the source all you like.

Citing urban dictionary is like citing wikipedia. It’s kind of frowned upon in serious academic circles.

Gw2 forums: the home of academic discussion!

See, you laugh at it when it’s the GW2 forums. What makes urban dictionary so different? What makes that website any more the authority than this one?

Please link where I said urban dictionary was a more valid source than another one.

The thread was another one of those where people argue the true meaning of casual gamer

Im sure if the Bible mentioned casual gamers there would be million of people dismissing it as the true meaning xD

Mac.3872:

Xenon.4537:

Mac.3872:

Xenon.4537:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

Here is urban dictionary` definition of casual gamers

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=casual+gamer

Gee that’s not derogatory at all.. /end sarcasm

Fell free to up vote or down vote their definitions as you see fit. The more people who vote, the closer we come to a universally accepted definition of a casual gamer.

The fact that I can only down vote some of those once is appalling. The tone of many of those posts should drive home how seriously sad our society has become. And yet we still continue to wonder why people prefer to play with AI rather than actual people…

Im sorry if the popular definition dose not suit your world view. (Something you will find happens a lot so get used to it).

lol yes because the “world” relies on urban dictionary for it’s definitions.

Ridicule the source all you like.

Citing urban dictionary is like citing wikipedia. It’s kind of frowned upon in serious academic circles.

Gw2 forums: the home of academic discussion!

See, you laugh at it when it’s the GW2 forums. What makes urban dictionary so different? What makes that website any more the authority than this one?

Please link where is said urban dictionary was a more valid source than another one.

The thread was another one of those where people argue the true meaning of casual gamer

Im sure if the Bible mentioned casual gamers there would be million of people dismissing it as the true meaning xD

Considering the bible was written by man who is fallable? Yup

Seriously, though, even the various ‘sources’ for the definitions don’t agree amongst themselves. There is no valid source for this slang term at this point, and I highly doubt there will ever be an agreed upon, acceptable definition. There’s too many variations of what ‘casual’ could be.

There are several issues with PvE being made more difficult. Like it or not, there is a skill continuum between players. The skilled are going to seek out the most challenging content in the game, and milk it until it’s easy for them. Then, unless a reward carrot is used to keep them going there, they’ll be here complaining about lack of challenge. The same applies if the rewards are not good enough and also once the rewards are gotten.

MMO PvE will always be vulnerable to a practice effect. Once players know how to beat a challenge, the challenge no longer exists. The better players want to be at the sharp end of the stick, and the sharp end is constantly moving to the next thing. Thus, players seeking challenge in MMO pvE will always be high maintenance for the development team.

If open world PvE is made more difficult, the “challenge-wanting” players will only utilize it only until they’ve mastered it and/or gotten the rewards they want, then move on after declaring said content to be too easy. Meanwhile, the players on the other end of the continuum will be stuck with frustrating content that they cannot complete. Go do some of the toxic events in Kessex, or the Jofast escort in CS with groups of players big enough to scale the events up but not so big that the players outnumber the scaling.

Mac.3872:

Xenon.4537:

Mac.3872:

Xenon.4537:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

Here is urban dictionary` definition of casual gamers

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=casual+gamer

Gee that’s not derogatory at all.. /end sarcasm

Fell free to up vote or down vote their definitions as you see fit. The more people who vote, the closer we come to a universally accepted definition of a casual gamer.

The fact that I can only down vote some of those once is appalling. The tone of many of those posts should drive home how seriously sad our society has become. And yet we still continue to wonder why people prefer to play with AI rather than actual people…

Im sorry if the popular definition dose not suit your world view. (Something you will find happens a lot so get used to it).

lol yes because the “world” relies on urban dictionary for it’s definitions.

Ridicule the source all you like.

Citing urban dictionary is like citing wikipedia. It’s kind of frowned upon in serious academic circles.

Gw2 forums: the home of academic discussion!

See, you laugh at it when it’s the GW2 forums. What makes urban dictionary so different? What makes that website any more the authority than this one?

Please link where I said urban dictionary was a more valid source than another one.

The thread was another one of those where people argue the true meaning of casual gamer

Im sure if the Bible mentioned casual gamers there would be million of people dismissing it as the true meaning xD

Well it’s just that you seemed to be implying it. Remember tone and sarcasm don’t translate well over text. :P

Xenon.4537:

Mac.3872:

Xenon.4537:

Mac.3872:

Xenon.4537:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

Here is urban dictionary` definition of casual gamers

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=casual+gamer

Gee that’s not derogatory at all.. /end sarcasm

Fell free to up vote or down vote their definitions as you see fit. The more people who vote, the closer we come to a universally accepted definition of a casual gamer.

The fact that I can only down vote some of those once is appalling. The tone of many of those posts should drive home how seriously sad our society has become. And yet we still continue to wonder why people prefer to play with AI rather than actual people…

Im sorry if the popular definition dose not suit your world view. (Something you will find happens a lot so get used to it).

lol yes because the “world” relies on urban dictionary for it’s definitions.

Ridicule the source all you like.

Citing urban dictionary is like citing wikipedia. It’s kind of frowned upon in serious academic circles.

Gw2 forums: the home of academic discussion!

See, you laugh at it when it’s the GW2 forums. What makes urban dictionary so different? What makes that website any more the authority than this one?

Please link where I said urban dictionary was a more valid source than another one.

The thread was another one of those where people argue the true meaning of casual gamer

Im sure if the Bible mentioned casual gamers there would be million of people dismissing it as the true meaning xD

Well it’s just that you seemed to be implying it. Remember tone and sarcasm don’t translate well over text. :P

I prefer to think that you inferred it :P

IndigoSundown nailed it IMO. The thing is there is a spectrum of people that play, so I think trying to categorize players as either “hard core” or “casual” mostly doesn’t work, and again, time plays a huge role for MMO players.

An example: WvW Season 1 meta achievement. For me, all the achievements were do-able, but I could not complete them because the number of kills/whatever were set so high that my gaming time did not allow me to complete it (color me casual!). Other players (you hard-cores, you!!) had the meta in one day simply because they had the time to invest. Does that make them better players than me? Of course, they complained the meta was too easy because they devoured it post haste.

They were saying the meta was “too easy”, while I was (thinking) it was “too hard” only because of time, not content.

I think the OP realizes that the word casual is tossed around like a bad word. Casuals are thought of as useless “1 spammers” that do not even desire anything challenging. I believe he’s just frustrated with the intonation of the word, as are many others. However, as this thread proves, most can’t even agree on who is a casual and who is “elite”, or hard-core.

Mac.3872:

sorudo.9054:

Mac.3872:

Here is urban dictionary` definition of casual gamers

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=casual+gamer

2,3,4 and 5 is completely BS, i am as casual as anyone can be yet i outperform in any.
i rather use a PC because it is allot better then any console can ever be, i play casual games…..that’s why it’s called a casual game and not a hardcore game.
i can, at times, outperform a hardcore player simply because i learn faster and before i forget, i laugh at hardcore players because they’re wasting their time while i have all the time on the world.

I love your definiton of a casual game. : a casual is….. not a hadrcore game. Thanks for clearing that up.

Hardcore players have all the time in the world too. THEY just choose to spend it in-game where they contribute to the community, economy and over-all health of the game. We should thank them for keeping your game alive and persistent. Laughing at them is maybe a little selfish

they also decide what the META is and ruins everything for casual players, why the hell would i thank them for ruining it for casual players…….

For me, casual means you don’t need to be a Red Bull fueled twitch monkey to play successfully. That it doesn’t require intimate min/max knowledge to perform alright. It means I can play for as long as I have time for without being guilted into believing I’m shirking my duties because I didn’t have time to do Dungeon X again with my guild mates.

To me casual means something I can do a little or a lot in but that’s my choice. Casual means I don’t have to dive neck deep into the stat system to create a playable character or spend hours honing skills simply to survive walking from point A to point B.

Mac.3872:

Xenon.4537:

Mac.3872:

Xenon.4537:

Mac.3872:

Xenon.4537:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Mac.3872:

Here is urban dictionary` definition of casual gamers

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=casual+gamer

Gee that’s not derogatory at all.. /end sarcasm

Fell free to up vote or down vote their definitions as you see fit. The more people who vote, the closer we come to a universally accepted definition of a casual gamer.

The fact that I can only down vote some of those once is appalling. The tone of many of those posts should drive home how seriously sad our society has become. And yet we still continue to wonder why people prefer to play with AI rather than actual people…

Im sorry if the popular definition dose not suit your world view. (Something you will find happens a lot so get used to it).

lol yes because the “world” relies on urban dictionary for it’s definitions.

Ridicule the source all you like.

Citing urban dictionary is like citing wikipedia. It’s kind of frowned upon in serious academic circles.

Gw2 forums: the home of academic discussion!

See, you laugh at it when it’s the GW2 forums. What makes urban dictionary so different? What makes that website any more the authority than this one?

Please link where I said urban dictionary was a more valid source than another one.

The thread was another one of those where people argue the true meaning of casual gamer

Im sure if the Bible mentioned casual gamers there would be million of people dismissing it as the true meaning xD

Well it’s just that you seemed to be implying it. Remember tone and sarcasm don’t translate well over text. :P

I prefer to think that you inferred it :P

Semantics, lol.

You need a larger vocabulary to have this discussion. “Casual” and “Hardcore” are too restrictive and have too many interpretations.

Any given player can fall anywhere on a grid that covers:
Time: plays a little, plays a lot
Challenge: wants high challenge, wants low challenge
Skill: highly skilled, basic skills

The issue is any given player may be a different combination of those things on any given day. Maybe they have five hours and are highly skilled with their main and want a challenge. Maybe the next day they only have one hour, are playing a new class, and want to just unwind. So is that person casual or hardcore? Depends on the day and what they are doing.

But IndigoSundown did nail it above – regardless of the content, once you get the right build and the right formula to beat it, hard things become easy and you want to move on. So then what is and is not a challenge becomes different day to day as well.

I think the labels only serve as short-hand ways for people to insult others in some way. Truth is GW2 will be most effective if it can offer a wide range of experiences to the widest possible audience.