Guild Wars 2

Part 1:
Hi there, before I start, let me say I consider myself a “casual gamer” leaning towards semi hardcore. I spend about 3-5 hours daily on the game, been playing since Beta, but took a long break in between, which I will explain.

I absolutely love this game, the details, the dialogs, the stories, the stories, the stories, the epic stories, how Im a superheroe, the stories. But Im having a few issues regarding how little rewarding I see the game outside personal story for a casual gamer like me.

Maybe Im just getting burnout, but this is the same thing that happened to me last time. I had been following the game for about 2 year before the release, prebought at the first chance, I was really exited about a new MMO that didnt emphasize on mindless farming and that actually rewarded open world exploration

Me, coming from certain W.. game, as well as quite the few other Korean FARM-A-LOT-BUT-NEVER-REACH-ANYWHERE mmos, I found this very appealing to me, I awaited the game anxiously. But as soon as I started, together with an old guild of friends, we reached a point that we got burnout. We found everything really pretty and all, but once you are over with leveling, going back would only hinder you, so we were left with only standing in LA. Granted, back then we didnt know about the different weapons, like legendaries, nor all the dungeons (only CoF and HoTW), found Shatterer by a lucky accident and quitted WvW all together from culling, (sPvP was unplayable due to all the thieves and mesmers, that until this day still plague the place, one shooting and frustrating everyone, but at least it is a bit better)

At that point we took a break (they quit) and I went to play more casual games like L.., where the fun was contained in about less than an hour. During Christmas I had my week off at work, and I was bored out of my mind, decided to give this a try. I came back and gave myself a task; make Bifrost. Here is where the issues start; while I understand it is supposed to be hard and optional, the lack of open world late game makes this game not have much to go for.

Part 2:

As I said, I dont like farming, though I dont mind if it is a rewarding and interactive way, but the game has prety much boiled down to; farm CoF p1-p2, check timers on dragons, run KT in between. I dont mind CoF, it is a beautiful and thankfully easy dungeon, but that applies to the first 10 or maybe 20 times, after that it gets dull and repetitive and obnoxious and just a task. I have tried other dungeons but for the same reward, i will not go through near-impossible bosses fights, constant wipings, lon, long LONG LONG runs, running through one-shooting mobs, gazillions, getting one shooted by Lupicus (yes, im looking at you Arah, I need 500 for the gift and about 3 times that for the set) all to fail running Arah for the 3rd time in about 1+ hours run each. I know if you know the tricks you can do it, so thats not really the issue, once I get it I know I will be able to do it, but the point is; farming gets stale. There is absolutely no reason to deviate from this [[Dungeon-Dragon-KT]] if you wanna make some profit. I dont mind the trains, but the dungeons are getting old, repetitive, and increasingly hard (AC?!, cant WP while i combat?!). Orr is ugly, cant spend more thn an hour there until wearing sick of the greyness and constant CCs (inb4 it used to be worse before)

Like I said before, there is absolutely no reason to go outside, open world exploration is over once you reach lvl 80, going back would only ensure you get less karma, no drops and a huge set back towards a goal. I got a coworker into the game, now we are exploring the map together, Im having a good time, but at the same time, I feel that Im wasting my time, not doing all those dragons which I HAVE to get, all the tokens which i need and all that gold which I have to spend on t6 mats since they barely drop, even with my 80% MF set which i wear 100% of the time. Since Christmas the farthest I have gotten is Gift of exploration, Gift of Jumping Qui….errggh Battle, 71 cloves and no more than 30 of each t6 mat mostly from the occasional Orr drop or the failed clove attemp. For expending 3-5 hours daily on a game, you would expect a little more, and I probably should have a little more, but that would imply that I would hav to dedicate those 3-5 hours EXPLICITY on those unfun tasks. Im nowhere near getting my legendary, I hav eno more than 80 gold net since Christmas, I need 100 for the icy runes and the precursor (500g anyone?)

So now you say; “bro, its optional”, but here is the thing, everything in this game is optional, too optional. Guild mision require massive amount of influence and players, we have about 20 active players in our guild, cant get past t2, completed it once out of 4 times, small guilds like ours can barely keep up with that. Dungeons are borderline impossible unless you are a hardcore player with TS and perfect knowledge of them. WvW is better now without culling, but inbetween the AoE caps and uneven server matches, the game boils down to who has the most players. sPvP is utterly unbalanced, many classes cant hold on their own, and 5v5 boils down to who has the best mesmer/thieves since for the most part you have to roam alone there.

This game is beautiful but the lack of achievable end game content for more casual gamers who want to explore and not farm 24/7 like promised by ArenaNet at the launch will cause more and more players to leave, or have long breaks like mine. Once again, maybe Im talking out of frustration and Im just burnout, but my sense of achievement in this game is close to none since I cant do what I want, which is go around helping my coworker, my guildies, doing doable misions, and still attaining some sort of good looking gear (Bifrost)

Tl;DR: Casual players resorting to spending the little time they can into farming and farming, not doing what they want like exploring or helping other because it is the only way to acquire a “goal”, ie Bifrost.. Im starting to get the feeling that this game is starting to become a hardcore Korean MMO where you need perfect coordination to be able to do most group content and where the only way to keep you into the game is having low drop rates and awful combining success rate, making you farm mindlessly doing unfun stuff instead of what you want so that you can have a chance to get something, that isnt really all that worth it. After months of playing, I feel like Im getting nowhere.

The problem with this game is that it does not cater to “casual gamers,” but it caters to BAD and unskilled gamers.

It rewards bad and unskilled play (zerging, using MF gear, etc.) and punishes good and efficient play by anet literally banning good players who figure out the system (Snowflakes situation etc.)

Because of anet’s decision to cater to BAD players, not casual players, everything has just been reduced to a terrible grind.

Thus, instead of a situation as in GW1, where skill was the biggest deciding factor in how far a player got (at least in the beginning,) in order to cater to the lowest common denominator, the bad players, its been watered down to where time spent in-game is the biggest deciding factor in how far a player gets.

Ok, sorry guys, forgot to post suggestions on how to fix it:

Really easy, really:

The economy is expensive, not because attaining gold is all that hard, but beacuse materials and others are too scarce, therefore increasing the amount of gold would do nothing, the prices would remain the same (just increased in ratio), so a good fix is increasing a drop rate, but not going from 0.0001% to 0.0002%, im talking about MASSIVE drop rate, not only that, make it so when killing stuff in low lvl, you get about the same chance as killing one of high level, (not just a small chance)

Also, this might sound crazy, but what about putting t6 nodes into low and mid lvl places? Im not talking about putting them there and letting them be, or putting on, only ONE in the whole map, im talking about, you are walking around, with your low lvl guildies, and BAM, a orichalcum node, which wont appear there next time, once you use it, its gone, goes random into another place, or map. Also put a LEVEL on the stuff before you collect them, a low lvl will use a basic gathering tool to pick up that node and will get nothing, also, for the most part i cant tell which tress give what, or which plants give what (lvl wise) so be a little less ambigous about it, maybe?

Make it so that getting materials insint a tedious task or a 3rd party task (going to CoF, repeating it 3 times in order to buy some t6 mats you need)

Overall, increasing drop and success rates, make the little time people use worth it, make exploration fun again.

Reikou.7068:

The problem with this game is that it does not cater to “casual gamers,” but it caters to BAD and unskilled gamers.

It rewards bad and unskilled play (zerging, using MF gear, etc.) and punishes good and efficient play by anet literally banning good players who figure out the system (Snowflakes situation etc.)

Because of anet’s decision to cater to BAD players, not casual players, everything has just been reduced to a terrible grind.

Thus, instead of a situation as in GW1, where skill was the biggest deciding factor in how far a player got (at least in the beginning,) in order to cater to the lowest common denominator, the bad players, its been watered down to where time spent in-game is the biggest deciding factor in how far a player gets.

This is my opinion as well. It’s the every kid gets a medal attitude, instead of rewarding the best for the being the best.

Everything in GW2 based on time spent, not skill.

Reikou.7068:

The problem with this game is that it does not cater to “casual gamers,” but it caters to BAD and unskilled gamers.

It rewards bad and unskilled play (zerging, using MF gear, etc.) and punishes good and efficient play by anet literally banning good players who figure out the system (Snowflakes situation etc.)

Because of anet’s decision to cater to BAD players, not casual players, everything has just been reduced to a terrible grind.

Thus, instead of a situation as in GW1, where skill was the biggest deciding factor in how far a player got (at least in the beginning,) in order to cater to the lowest common denominator, the bad players, its been watered down to where time spent in-game is the biggest deciding factor in how far a player gets.

So in order to be considered a “good player” you have to discover and take advantage of a game exploit.

That’s interesting logic you got going there.

Reikou.7068:

The problem with this game is that it does not cater to “casual gamers,” but it caters to BAD and unskilled gamers.

It rewards bad and unskilled play (zerging, using MF gear, etc.) and punishes good and efficient play by anet literally banning good players who figure out the system (Snowflakes situation etc.)

Because of anet’s decision to cater to BAD players, not casual players, everything has just been reduced to a terrible grind.

Thus, instead of a situation as in GW1, where skill was the biggest deciding factor in how far a player got (at least in the beginning,) in order to cater to the lowest common denominator, the bad players, its been watered down to where time spent in-game is the biggest deciding factor in how far a player gets.

and here you’re reversing the roles.
both Berserker and MF gear is gear that is very hard to use, because you’re sacrificing vitality and toughness. If a person manages to survive with it instead of sitting on the ground they are not a bad player.
Snowflake situation was an obvious exploit, not something that you figure out as a game mechanic.

AC is not difficult (I am being honest, not arrogant/elitist) for the type of player you are (casual “semi-hardcore”). It’s one of the easiest ones, all paths, minus the exploitable CoF 1. They shouldn’t be too easy, lest they be exploited (CoF 1, once more-some other Dungeons have been exploited to a point some players took all the challenge away from them-CM/etc.-but have been fixed in many ways). Other dungeons also appear difficult at the beginning, but once you figure them out, it’s just a matter of practice. They were promised to us as places were we would be challenged and group coordination would yield better results. Many disagree that such results were achieved, but for the most part, though some Dungeon parts remain quite challenging even to experienced players, AC wouldn’t be part of those, IME.

As for some of your other concerns, don’t care that much about the Legendary; let it happen over time if you are a casual. I consider myself a casual too-honestly, I just can’t devote the time it would require for me to match “efficient” CoF1 farmers. I need tons of T6 mats, etc. So I am just collecting stuff slowly over time (you have way more Legendary stuff than I do, for instance-Gift of Metal/Exploration/just over 100 Badges of Honor/32 Silver Doubloons/20+ Molten Lodestones/30 clovers being all I have-yet I just don’t care enough to think of it as an issue; please note that I am not saying that the drop rate is “fair”, or that I am better than you, though.) Playing the game casually means that you stop caring about the little stuff that most “hardcore” players want-you’ll get there in your own time, and it will be all the more rewarding.

The Precursor is the biggest grind in this game, IMHO. Everything else pales in comparison unless you got lucky playing casually (which has happened, though won’t be the case for most of us.) Let’s hope they add another way to earn Precursors over time, as I can do CoF 1 just a few times per day without getting bored, and actually prefer the more difficult Dungeons because they can be more fun-I guess the way there is more important than the reward for me (no way you will be seeing me farming CoF 1 for 8 hours a day with “Zerk” parties while belittling others.) As soon as there is a more balanced way to earn precursors (a more foolproof way, even if it takes a long time) many of the problems many casual players have with earning Legendaries will be gone.

I think luck drops are good-it’s nice to get some lucky, nice drop every once in a while. It’s just that for the Legendaries, some sort of reasonably “hard”, “Legendary” quest to earn them-at least the Precursors-would be more appropriate (they can still drop, of course, but there should be a way to know you will get them one day, other than buying them outright from the TP, as many of us will eventually have to do otherwise.)

I hope I didn’t come off as offensive or insensitive-just wanted to reiterate the importance for many of us casuals to enjoy the game, rather than making it a daily grind for the Legendary, which at this point in time doesn’t even matter beyond the looks (there’s not even “status” attached to them right now-at least, I don’t admire any player BECAUSE of their Legendary.) If you don’t enjoy playing GW2 for its own sake (enjoy playing it!) what’s the point towards getting your Legendary(ies) ASAP?

I agree that some drops are just TOO rare-never mind the Precursors.

Shootsfoot.9276:

Reikou.7068:

The problem with this game is that it does not cater to “casual gamers,” but it caters to BAD and unskilled gamers.

It rewards bad and unskilled play (zerging, using MF gear, etc.) and punishes good and efficient play by anet literally banning good players who figure out the system (Snowflakes situation etc.)

Because of anet’s decision to cater to BAD players, not casual players, everything has just been reduced to a terrible grind.

Thus, instead of a situation as in GW1, where skill was the biggest deciding factor in how far a player got (at least in the beginning,) in order to cater to the lowest common denominator, the bad players, its been watered down to where time spent in-game is the biggest deciding factor in how far a player gets.

So in order to be considered a “good player” you have to discover and take advantage of a game exploit.

That’s interesting logic you got going there.

When you declare what someone else’s logic is you’re doing this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Mirta.5029:

and here you’re reversing the roles.
both Berserker and MF gear is gear that is very hard to use, because you’re sacrificing vitality and toughness. If a person manages to survive with it instead of sitting on the ground they are not a bad player.
Snowflake situation was an obvious exploit, not something that you figure out as a game mechanic.

“Zerging” can refer to many things that normalize the skill and specialties of an individual across a faceless mass. The favored tactic in WvWvW, or the rush that surrounds any noteworthy world event.

As for Berserker gear, toughness and vitality don’t mitigate as much damage as Berserker gear enables, thus the opportunity cost is great NOT to wear Berserker’s.

It sounds like you just want a precursor drop because you wear MF gear. Try looking at it from this standpoint. Zerk gear = faster/more runs = more chances @ chest= more chances at a exotic drop

MF gear = slower runs = less chances at chest/drops with only a slightly increased rate.

RebelYell.7132:

Mirta.5029:

and here you’re reversing the roles.
both Berserker and MF gear is gear that is very hard to use, because you’re sacrificing vitality and toughness. If a person manages to survive with it instead of sitting on the ground they are not a bad player.
Snowflake situation was an obvious exploit, not something that you figure out as a game mechanic.

“Zerging” can refer to many things that normalize the skill and specialties of an individual across a faceless mass. The favored tactic in WvWvW, or the rush that surrounds any noteworthy world event.

As for Berserker gear, toughness and vitality don’t mitigate as much damage as Berserker gear enables, thus the opportunity cost is great NOT to wear Berserker’s.

most berserker players sit on their floor on their kitten though. In order to use that gear properly you have to be really good. Or just use a toughness/ vitality safety net.

Mirta.5029:

RebelYell.7132:

Mirta.5029:

and here you’re reversing the roles.
both Berserker and MF gear is gear that is very hard to use, because you’re sacrificing vitality and toughness. If a person manages to survive with it instead of sitting on the ground they are not a bad player.
Snowflake situation was an obvious exploit, not something that you figure out as a game mechanic.

“Zerging” can refer to many things that normalize the skill and specialties of an individual across a faceless mass. The favored tactic in WvWvW, or the rush that surrounds any noteworthy world event.

As for Berserker gear, toughness and vitality don’t mitigate as much damage as Berserker gear enables, thus the opportunity cost is great NOT to wear Berserker’s.

most berserker players sit on their floor on their kitten though. In order to use that gear properly you have to be really good. Or just use a toughness/ vitality safety net.

So much damage avoidance is based on movement though, because you can only take so many hits in high-end PvE. Full PVT only gives you one or two extra hits.

If you can’t beat Metal Slug 3 on a single credit, one extra life won’t make a difference.

Reikou.7068:

The problem with this game is that it does not cater to “casual gamers,” but it caters to BAD and unskilled gamers.

It rewards bad and unskilled play (zerging, using MF gear, etc.) and punishes good and efficient play by anet literally banning good players who figure out the system (Snowflakes situation etc.)

Because of anet’s decision to cater to BAD players, not casual players, everything has just been reduced to a terrible grind.

Thus, instead of a situation as in GW1, where skill was the biggest deciding factor in how far a player got (at least in the beginning,) in order to cater to the lowest common denominator, the bad players, its been watered down to where time spent in-game is the biggest deciding factor in how far a player gets.

Couldn’t be more obviously wrong. It’s staggering.

Mf gear takes increased skill to wear because of less defensive stats

Snowflakes exploit should have been done by nobody. Exploiting is not winning. I loudly applaud anet for banning those bads. They chose to exploit and they lost.

RebelYell.7132:

Mirta.5029:

RebelYell.7132:

Mirta.5029:

and here you’re reversing the roles.
both Berserker and MF gear is gear that is very hard to use, because you’re sacrificing vitality and toughness. If a person manages to survive with it instead of sitting on the ground they are not a bad player.
Snowflake situation was an obvious exploit, not something that you figure out as a game mechanic.

“Zerging” can refer to many things that normalize the skill and specialties of an individual across a faceless mass. The favored tactic in WvWvW, or the rush that surrounds any noteworthy world event.

As for Berserker gear, toughness and vitality don’t mitigate as much damage as Berserker gear enables, thus the opportunity cost is great NOT to wear Berserker’s.

most berserker players sit on their floor on their kitten though. In order to use that gear properly you have to be really good. Or just use a toughness/ vitality safety net.

So much damage avoidance is based on movement though, because you can only take so many hits in high-end PvE. Full PVT only gives you one or two extra hits.

If you can’t beat Metal Slug 3 on a single credit, one extra life won’t make a difference.

surviving an AoE of alpha or being able to do a few mistakes does help you know.

I didn’t read your entire post so bear with me, I’ll read it later. Just wanted to point out that 3-5 hours a day isn’t casual by any means ( a truly casual player often has days where he doesn’t play at all ) and that dungeons aren’t for the superproelite crowd (those are SOLOING Lupicus ), but for the “medium-skilled, with a brain” player. I’m pretty sure you haven’t tried half of them, yet tag them as “only for dedicated people on TS”.

I think the major problem is that CoF has more profit not ONLY because it can be run fast but because it has level 80 rares for 30 tokens making almost garunteed ecto every day which equals money money money. I think lodestones are much more a problem then simply profiting as a casual player. I made 25ish gold cycling between cof and orr farming in roughly 12-14 hours of gameplay BUT I was not enjoying myself. I feel that drop rate increases on some items or maybe diversifying how you can get some things could be good for the game. If I have the same chance to profit farming events in orr as I did running CoF then it wouldnt be such a grind to explore. I remain on the fact I will always state I farmed for charged lodestones for 3 hours and got not 1 with over 100% MF. This is not crying to ask for an increase in such an item (just example) when I require 350. And yes I was farming the right enemies. Killing roughly 5 per minute.

Wolfheart.1938:

I didn’t read your entire post so bear with me, I’ll read it later. Just wanted to point out that 3-5 hours a day isn’t casual by any means ( a truly casual player often has days where he doesn’t play at all ) and that dungeons aren’t for the superproelite crowd (those are SOLOING Lupicus ), but for the “medium-skilled, with a brain” player. I’m pretty sure you haven’t tried half of them, yet tag them as “only for dedicated people on TS”.

This is why I dont like doing Tl;DR, people ignore the post and go to it, which I blame technology, nowadays this generation cant sit down and read anything. I covered those points already, and yes, i ahve tried them all, and completed many of them, but this is not the point of the thread. The point is that in the lack of a endgame content, Legendaries is the only thing you really have to go for if you are a loner or have a small guild which cant do anything past tier 1 bounty. Granted, I dont play 5 hours everyday, i should probably correct that, it is more like 2-4, some days I dont play at all and only log in quickly for the daily in PvP.

Point is that, I like helping guildies and whatnot, going around the map, exploring, doing fun stuff, but the profits for that are minimal, each event give you no more than 200 karma, while orr gives you nearly 300 each plus a lot more gold, doing bosses is fun, dragons that is, I like that, but they come every now and then, in between you have to camp CoF for gold because there is no other way around it, Orr is too ugly and it gets boring after the 4th KT, the rewards for going to a pretty map is…..meh.

@OP: Maybe you should try to get ascended gear & fractals first?

derLoko.2185:

@OP: Maybe you should try to get ascended gear & fractals first?

well, im gearing my main (ele) with ascended, currently going for zerker since I like crits and nuking people from afar, I have been doing some fractals but for the most part and other than the daily lvl2, I dont do much

RebelYell.7132:

Shootsfoot.9276:

Reikou.7068:

The problem with this game is that it does not cater to “casual gamers,” but it caters to BAD and unskilled gamers.

It rewards bad and unskilled play (zerging, using MF gear, etc.) and punishes good and efficient play by anet literally banning good players who figure out the system (Snowflakes situation etc.)

Because of anet’s decision to cater to BAD players, not casual players, everything has just been reduced to a terrible grind.

Thus, instead of a situation as in GW1, where skill was the biggest deciding factor in how far a player got (at least in the beginning,) in order to cater to the lowest common denominator, the bad players, its been watered down to where time spent in-game is the biggest deciding factor in how far a player gets.

So in order to be considered a “good player” you have to discover and take advantage of a game exploit.

That’s interesting logic you got going there.

When you declare what someone else’s logic is you’re doing this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Ah yes…the snarky wiki-link response. Forgot where I was for a moment there.

But I’ll humor you….

Show me where I’m misrepresenting this statement:

“…and punishes good and efficient play by anet literally banning good players who figure out the system (Snowflakes situation etc.)”

You’ll recall the “Snowflakes situation” was a blatant exploit. Now, describe to me how using an exploit requires skill and makes a person a “good” player, please.

Shootsfoot.9276:

RebelYell.7132:

Shootsfoot.9276:

Reikou.7068:

The problem with this game is that it does not cater to “casual gamers,” but it caters to BAD and unskilled gamers.

It rewards bad and unskilled play (zerging, using MF gear, etc.) and punishes good and efficient play by anet literally banning good players who figure out the system (Snowflakes situation etc.)

Because of anet’s decision to cater to BAD players, not casual players, everything has just been reduced to a terrible grind.

Thus, instead of a situation as in GW1, where skill was the biggest deciding factor in how far a player got (at least in the beginning,) in order to cater to the lowest common denominator, the bad players, its been watered down to where time spent in-game is the biggest deciding factor in how far a player gets.

So in order to be considered a “good player” you have to discover and take advantage of a game exploit.

That’s interesting logic you got going there.

When you declare what someone else’s logic is you’re doing this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Ah yes…the snarky wiki-link response. Forgot where I was for a moment there.

But I’ll humor you….

Show me where I’m misrepresenting this statement:

“…and punishes good and efficient play by anet literally banning good players who figure out the system (Snowflakes situation etc.)”

You’ll recall the “Snowflakes situation” was a blatant exploit. Now, describe to me how using an exploit requires skill and makes a person a “good” player, please.

Starting an argument with “By your logic,” is a pretty good indicator that some misrepresentation is going to happen. Interpreting a piece of opinion as being “logical”, as if it was an arithmetic formula to be proven false, rather than using empathy to interpret the opinion and compare it to your own, is pretty intellectually dishonest.

Personally, for me, I’ll just come right out and say that exploitation is often skillful behavior. People who exploit in games often show capacities beyond the average player in game knowledge, mathematics, lateral thinking, timing, and planning. Or, to move outside the realm of video games, could you have done what Bernie Madoff did? Could you have led an army as well as Erwin Rommel? Just because someone did something wrong doesn’t mean they weren’t extraordinary or clever while doing it.

Mirta.5029:

and here you’re reversing the roles.
both Berserker and MF gear is gear that is very hard to use, because you’re sacrificing vitality and toughness. If a person manages to survive with it instead of sitting on the ground they are not a bad player.

I’m sure that letting the team carry you is considered skilful. You don’t want to know often I get in teams with Warriors or Thiefs that drop down 10 times faster than my Elementalist in a dungeon party. Or when you have that guy that proudly states how great MF is, and that they don’t need the extra stats because their class is so great at surviving, but then spend the rest of the time dead in a Lupicus encounter, while the rest of the team is working to get him up again. Yeah…

Milennin.4825:

Mirta.5029:

and here you’re reversing the roles.
both Berserker and MF gear is gear that is very hard to use, because you’re sacrificing vitality and toughness. If a person manages to survive with it instead of sitting on the ground they are not a bad player.

I’m sure that letting the team carry you is considered skilful. You don’t want to know often I get in teams with Warriors or Thiefs that drop down 10 times faster than my Elementalist in a dungeon party. Or when you have that guy that proudly states how great MF is, and that they don’t need the extra stats because their class is so great at surviving, but then spend the rest of the time dead in a Lupicus encounter, while the rest of the team is working to get him up again. Yeah…

i feel an indirect directed at me…..

anyways, i have zerker gear, the MF comes from runes and sockets, in dungeons though, i switch to half pvt and half valkirie, lipucus still goes for me as his preferred target.

but what i dont understand is how the topic deviated from “we need to make exploring and doing fun stuff that isnt farming more rewarding towards a goal; legendaries” to strawman and gear for dungeons…..

I am too a casual player and i share the same frustration as OP does, when working for the legendary. The presence of a RNG rewarding system is nowhere near the “philosophy” of this game and i honestly don’t get why the legendary weapons aren’t the result of hard work and effort instead of a mindless grind. I don’t want things easier nor i want the things to be cheaper, but i want to see a sense of progression directly tied to effort of achieving. Actually there is none!

The sad truth is that this game is focused on Gold. This fact is mainly due to the business model that ANet is enforcing which forces players to get gold for everything else. Obviously the most direct way of getting easy gold is paying for it (Gems → Gold), which increases the company profits. This is supported by the single fact that legendary weapons can be bought and sold!

Honestly we can’t differentiate a hard working player from a rich money sinking player or from a RNG lucky guy.

While my trust on this company that i admired before is going downhill, so is the money i am willing to spend of the game. Actually i will not spend any more cents on this game until this scavenging stops. The greed for fast money is a the long run, the responsible for the company loosing people everyday and by that reducing the expected return.

Players want → Effort and Skill rewarding system!
Company want → Grind and Gold rewarding system!

/Cheers

Milennin.4825:

I’m sure that letting the team carry you is considered skilful. You don’t want to know often I get in teams with Warriors or Thiefs that drop down 10 times faster than my Elementalist in a dungeon party. Or when you have that guy that proudly states how great MF is, and that they don’t need the extra stats because their class is so great at surviving, but then spend the rest of the time dead in a Lupicus encounter, while the rest of the team is working to get him up again. Yeah…

If a person manages to survive with it instead of sitting on the ground they are not a bad player.

that’s why I wrote this part. Everyone knows some really bad players, but I don’t think that we should attribute their inability to play to gear. I’ve had plenty of people in my CoE runs that no matter how many times you say “person that has the ice spike on them should stand further away from the group and all people with rock corona AoE can stack on alpha” responds with “all melee and stack”, or when you ask them to stand still so the AoE circles would not cross each other they start running around. In my experience most bad players were warriors with a dungeon master title. I’m not going to discriminate against warriors though.

RebelYell.7132:

Shootsfoot.9276:

RebelYell.7132:

Shootsfoot.9276:

Reikou.7068:

The problem with this game is that it does not cater to “casual gamers,” but it caters to BAD and unskilled gamers.

It rewards bad and unskilled play (zerging, using MF gear, etc.) and punishes good and efficient play by anet literally banning good players who figure out the system (Snowflakes situation etc.)

Because of anet’s decision to cater to BAD players, not casual players, everything has just been reduced to a terrible grind.

Thus, instead of a situation as in GW1, where skill was the biggest deciding factor in how far a player got (at least in the beginning,) in order to cater to the lowest common denominator, the bad players, its been watered down to where time spent in-game is the biggest deciding factor in how far a player gets.

So in order to be considered a “good player” you have to discover and take advantage of a game exploit.

That’s interesting logic you got going there.

When you declare what someone else’s logic is you’re doing this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Ah yes…the snarky wiki-link response. Forgot where I was for a moment there.

But I’ll humor you….

Show me where I’m misrepresenting this statement:

“…and punishes good and efficient play by anet literally banning good players who figure out the system (Snowflakes situation etc.)”

You’ll recall the “Snowflakes situation” was a blatant exploit. Now, describe to me how using an exploit requires skill and makes a person a “good” player, please.

Starting an argument with “By your logic,” is a pretty good indicator that some misrepresentation is going to happen. Interpreting a piece of opinion as being “logical”, as if it was an arithmetic formula to be proven false, rather than using empathy to interpret the opinion and compare it to your own, is pretty intellectually dishonest.

Personally, for me, I’ll just come right out and say that exploitation is often skillful behavior. People who exploit in games often show capacities beyond the average player in game knowledge, mathematics, lateral thinking, timing, and planning. Or, to move outside the realm of video games, could you have done what Bernie Madoff did? Could you have led an army as well as Erwin Rommel? Just because someone did something wrong doesn’t mean they weren’t extraordinary or clever while doing it.

You think Bernie Madoff was the first person to invent a pyramid scheme?

Yeah, you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this. Cheating isn’t in any way a display of “skill.”

Sorry, bub.

Mirta.5029:

RebelYell.7132:

Mirta.5029:

and here you’re reversing the roles.
both Berserker and MF gear is gear that is very hard to use, because you’re sacrificing vitality and toughness. If a person manages to survive with it instead of sitting on the ground they are not a bad player.
Snowflake situation was an obvious exploit, not something that you figure out as a game mechanic.

“Zerging” can refer to many things that normalize the skill and specialties of an individual across a faceless mass. The favored tactic in WvWvW, or the rush that surrounds any noteworthy world event.

As for Berserker gear, toughness and vitality don’t mitigate as much damage as Berserker gear enables, thus the opportunity cost is great NOT to wear Berserker’s.

most berserker players sit on their floor on their kitten though. In order to use that gear properly you have to be really good. Or just use a toughness/ vitality safety net.

Not if you’re a Mesmer using a staff.

Shootsfoot.9276:

RebelYell.7132:

Shootsfoot.9276:

RebelYell.7132:

Shootsfoot.9276:

Reikou.7068:

The problem with this game is that it does not cater to “casual gamers,” but it caters to BAD and unskilled gamers.

It rewards bad and unskilled play (zerging, using MF gear, etc.) and punishes good and efficient play by anet literally banning good players who figure out the system (Snowflakes situation etc.)

Because of anet’s decision to cater to BAD players, not casual players, everything has just been reduced to a terrible grind.

Thus, instead of a situation as in GW1, where skill was the biggest deciding factor in how far a player got (at least in the beginning,) in order to cater to the lowest common denominator, the bad players, its been watered down to where time spent in-game is the biggest deciding factor in how far a player gets.

So in order to be considered a “good player” you have to discover and take advantage of a game exploit.

That’s interesting logic you got going there.

When you declare what someone else’s logic is you’re doing this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Ah yes…the snarky wiki-link response. Forgot where I was for a moment there.

But I’ll humor you….

Show me where I’m misrepresenting this statement:

“…and punishes good and efficient play by anet literally banning good players who figure out the system (Snowflakes situation etc.)”

You’ll recall the “Snowflakes situation” was a blatant exploit. Now, describe to me how using an exploit requires skill and makes a person a “good” player, please.

Starting an argument with “By your logic,” is a pretty good indicator that some misrepresentation is going to happen. Interpreting a piece of opinion as being “logical”, as if it was an arithmetic formula to be proven false, rather than using empathy to interpret the opinion and compare it to your own, is pretty intellectually dishonest.

Personally, for me, I’ll just come right out and say that exploitation is often skillful behavior. People who exploit in games often show capacities beyond the average player in game knowledge, mathematics, lateral thinking, timing, and planning. Or, to move outside the realm of video games, could you have done what Bernie Madoff did? Could you have led an army as well as Erwin Rommel? Just because someone did something wrong doesn’t mean they weren’t extraordinary or clever while doing it.

You think Bernie Madoff was the first person to invent a pyramid scheme?

Yeah, you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this. Cheating isn’t in any way a display of “skill.”

Sorry, bub.

No, I did not say Bernie Madoff invented the Ponzi Scheme. Charles Ponzi probably didn’t invent the Ponzi scheme. I agree to disagree, in that I acknowledge you’re going to stubbornly dismiss any use of allegory, metaphor, or anecdote that clearly illustrate a viewpoint you dislike.

Reikou.7068:

The problem with this game is that it does not cater to “casual gamers,” but it caters to BAD and unskilled gamers.

I agree with that too. I find it amazing how players so accustomed to skipping the trash find them harder than bosses, when confronted with a situation where you need to kill them, for instance. I am so tired of players yelling at the party chat “WHY DO YOU PULL THEM?” when no one did. Tired of players leaving the party when a mob happens to be on a unfortunate path before a door closed because they don’t want to kill them. And when they do kill them, they always wipe by the simplest mistakes.

Sorry for the rant, but the community is really lazy with bad skills. I agree with you guys. And I fail to see how this is ANet’s fault, or how this is a problem with the game.

Biggest issue is gold grind. Been doing some fractals and got item for ascended book. I remembered theres some ectos needed and skillpoints. What I frogot is my book needs 250 powerfull bloods. 38,5s ea this means 96,5 GOLD!!! What in this doesnt make this game korean grind fest? All that matters in this game now is how fast u can grind gold nothin else. T6 mats should be inflated alot and put them drop more and in WvW too.

ikiturso.4026:

Biggest issue is gold grind. Been doing some fractals and got item for ascended book. I remembered theres some ectos needed and skillpoints. What I frogot is my book needs 250 powerfull bloods. 38,5s ea this means 96,5 GOLD!!! What in this doesnt make this game korean grind fest? All that matters in this game now is how fast u can grind gold nothin else. T6 mats should be inflated alot and put them drop more and in WvW too.

Yea Anet has trouble differentiating between a decently time consuming but fun build up to a legendary weapon with cool graphics and a Korean style grind for the legendary that makes even Lineage 2 look better.

It’s like deciding between not grinding and getting nothing, but having the essentials.

Or… “I want to kill myself this is taking forever” grinding for something only for looks, which is cool, I don’t want verticle progression. But, there is nothing in between.

And grinding for gold or other currencies is almost worse than grinding for a random drop because there is absolutely no way to get lucky and get it sooner. That idea of getting lucky and getting to our goal earlier is what makes grinding not so horrible, but nope. You have to waste too much time no matter what and you can see how far away it is the whole time, making it discouraging.

RebelYell.7132:

Shootsfoot.9276:

RebelYell.7132:

Shootsfoot.9276:

RebelYell.7132:

Shootsfoot.9276:

Reikou.7068:

The problem with this game is that it does not cater to “casual gamers,” but it caters to BAD and unskilled gamers.

It rewards bad and unskilled play (zerging, using MF gear, etc.) and punishes good and efficient play by anet literally banning good players who figure out the system (Snowflakes situation etc.)

Because of anet’s decision to cater to BAD players, not casual players, everything has just been reduced to a terrible grind.

Thus, instead of a situation as in GW1, where skill was the biggest deciding factor in how far a player got (at least in the beginning,) in order to cater to the lowest common denominator, the bad players, its been watered down to where time spent in-game is the biggest deciding factor in how far a player gets.

So in order to be considered a “good player” you have to discover and take advantage of a game exploit.

That’s interesting logic you got going there.

When you declare what someone else’s logic is you’re doing this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Ah yes…the snarky wiki-link response. Forgot where I was for a moment there.

But I’ll humor you….

Show me where I’m misrepresenting this statement:

“…and punishes good and efficient play by anet literally banning good players who figure out the system (Snowflakes situation etc.)”

You’ll recall the “Snowflakes situation” was a blatant exploit. Now, describe to me how using an exploit requires skill and makes a person a “good” player, please.

Starting an argument with “By your logic,” is a pretty good indicator that some misrepresentation is going to happen. Interpreting a piece of opinion as being “logical”, as if it was an arithmetic formula to be proven false, rather than using empathy to interpret the opinion and compare it to your own, is pretty intellectually dishonest.

Personally, for me, I’ll just come right out and say that exploitation is often skillful behavior. People who exploit in games often show capacities beyond the average player in game knowledge, mathematics, lateral thinking, timing, and planning. Or, to move outside the realm of video games, could you have done what Bernie Madoff did? Could you have led an army as well as Erwin Rommel? Just because someone did something wrong doesn’t mean they weren’t extraordinary or clever while doing it.

You think Bernie Madoff was the first person to invent a pyramid scheme?

Yeah, you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this. Cheating isn’t in any way a display of “skill.”

Sorry, bub.

No, I did not say Bernie Madoff invented the Ponzi Scheme. Charles Ponzi probably didn’t invent the Ponzi scheme. I agree to disagree, in that I acknowledge you’re going to stubbornly dismiss any use of allegory, metaphor, or anecdote that clearly illustrate a viewpoint you dislike.

Oh snap!

Eh, I had my farming times in GW2 but grew too tired of it (was never into it), some of my friends still do farm from time to time, but I made them more keen to simply have fun.
There’s tons and tons of stuff to do, but they’re not “as rewarding” so fewer people go outside this farming mode.
About tPvP, I completely disagree, you’re just not that used to fighting all the classes, having people to coordinate with and strategize etc, but I understand where you’re coming from.

Playing with friends on skype/ts/ventrillo/something helps too, good jokes always pop-up and you can have quality time, sometimes I even use it too much that I just want to go off-line and play on my own at my own fun standard a bit :p

I read your entire post. I agree with what you said. except you are not casual. However, that only makes your points more viable.

I consider and hour a day 3-5 times a week casual. If you think you had it bad, those type of players can do little more than their dalies.

If you are not prepared to play 8-12 hours a day then you won’t really feel like your getting anywhere. I chose life over GW2.

SHM.7628:

I read your entire post. I agree with what you said. except you are not casual. However, that only makes your points more viable.

I consider and hour a day 3-5 times a week casual. If you think you had it bad, those type of players can do little more than their dalies.

Isn’t that the truth, playing 3 or 4 days a week a few hours at a time, most weeks it feels like I accomplish next to nothing. Other weeks I feel accomplished, depends on how long the dailies/chest runs take before I can get into WvW

SHM.7628:

I read your entire post. I agree with what you said. except you are not casual. However, that only makes your points more viable.

I consider and hour a day 3-5 times a week casual. If you think you had it bad, those type of players can do little more than their dalies.

If you are not prepared to play 8-12 hours a day then you won’t really feel like your getting anywhere. I chose life over GW2.

I knew legendary wasnt gonna be an easy thing, thats why I set it as my goal, maybe Im not so casual after all, and maybe if I focused all my attention into farming I would probably be a lot more closer, but I find that making gold is hard, specially since what I lie to do is very unproductive;

go around with my guildies helping them in whatever they need, doing JP, doing the occasional sPvP, going to WvW (usually I end up losing more money than I make, repairs can be expensive and I have a hard time getting any drops), dungeons get tiring after doing them more than once in the same day. Unfortunately I cant do all that, specially the later, because dungeons can be very time consuming, unless CoF p1.

My frustration comes from the fact that I cant make any profit from playing the game the way I want, which is going around the map, killing some stuffs but mostly just going around doing events that pop up or doing JPs. I feel lik I have to be on constant grind in order to do anything, I swear in the last 2 weeks I have made around 3 gold at most…..

Fortus.6175:

SHM.7628:

I read your entire post. I agree with what you said. except you are not casual. However, that only makes your points more viable.

I consider and hour a day 3-5 times a week casual. If you think you had it bad, those type of players can do little more than their dalies.

If you are not prepared to play 8-12 hours a day then you won’t really feel like your getting anywhere. I chose life over GW2.

My frustration comes from the fact that I cant make any profit from playing the game the way I want, which is going around the map, killing some stuffs but mostly just going around doing events that pop up or doing JPs. I feel lik I have to be on constant grind in order to do anything, I swear in the last 2 weeks I have made around 3 gold at most…..

I fully understand. I like to play the same way. It’s not fun or productive. I do make sure that I do my dailies so that when i want to I can give my alts exotic armor. Running the map is too costly and time consuming.

Leveling alts is a chore that i just don’t feel like doing, Nor do i have the time. Personal story stinks. (repetitive after a point.) Drops are lackluster. I remember in GW1 upgrading weapons, getting greens and golds to drop was fun. Here its all confusing and convoluted.

Perhaps its time to throw in the towel for you? I don’t say that to seem flippant. I jus understand how you feel. Feeling like your not making headway is a fun killer.

SHM.7628:

Fortus.6175:

SHM.7628:

I read your entire post. I agree with what you said. except you are not casual. However, that only makes your points more viable.

I consider and hour a day 3-5 times a week casual. If you think you had it bad, those type of players can do little more than their dalies.

If you are not prepared to play 8-12 hours a day then you won’t really feel like your getting anywhere. I chose life over GW2.

My frustration comes from the fact that I cant make any profit from playing the game the way I want, which is going around the map, killing some stuffs but mostly just going around doing events that pop up or doing JPs. I feel lik I have to be on constant grind in order to do anything, I swear in the last 2 weeks I have made around 3 gold at most…..

I fully understand. I like to play the same way. It’s not fun or productive. I do make sure that I do my dailies so that when i want to I can give my alts exotic armor. Running the map is too costly and time consuming.

Leveling alts is a chore that i just don’t feel like doing, Nor do i have the time. Personal story stinks. (repetitive after a point.) Drops are lackluster. I remember in GW1 upgrading weapons, getting greens and golds to drop was fun. Here its all confusing and convoluted.

Perhaps its time to throw in the towel for you? I don’t say that to seem flippant. I jus understand how you feel. Feeling like your not making headway is a fun killer.

I know what you mean, but it isnt that bad to me, yet. I dont mind the profits that much as long as I get to do what I like, but it does get very frustrating seeing myself in the same place as 3 weeks before…. I want a legendary before they release the next expansion…….

Fortus.6175:

Part 1:
Hi there, before I start, let me say I consider myself a “casual gamer” leaning towards semi hardcore. I spend about 3-5 hours daily on the game, been playing since Beta, but took a long break in between, which I will explain.

I absolutely love this game, the details, the dialogs, the stories, the stories, the stories, the epic stories, how Im a superheroe, the stories. But Im having a few issues regarding how little rewarding I see the game outside personal story for a casual gamer like me.

Maybe Im just getting burnout, but this is the same thing that happened to me last time. I had been following the game for about 2 year before the release, prebought at the first chance, I was really exited about a new MMO that didnt emphasize on mindless farming and that actually rewarded open world exploration

Me, coming from certain W.. game, as well as quite the few other Korean FARM-A-LOT-BUT-NEVER-REACH-ANYWHERE mmos, I found this very appealing to me, I awaited the game anxiously. But as soon as I started, together with an old guild of friends, we reached a point that we got burnout. We found everything really pretty and all, but once you are over with leveling, going back would only hinder you, so we were left with only standing in LA. Granted, back then we didnt know about the different weapons, like legendaries, nor all the dungeons (only CoF and HoTW), found Shatterer by a lucky accident and quitted WvW all together from culling, (sPvP was unplayable due to all the thieves and mesmers, that until this day still plague the place, one shooting and frustrating everyone, but at least it is a bit better)

At that point we took a break (they quit) and I went to play more casual games like L.., where the fun was contained in about less than an hour. During Christmas I had my week off at work, and I was bored out of my mind, decided to give this a try. I came back and gave myself a task; make Bifrost. Here is where the issues start; while I understand it is supposed to be hard and optional, the lack of open world late game makes this game not have much to go for.

You tell em fortus!

Agree with the sentiment of the OP but I don’t think your suggested fix would do anything. Dungeons would still be the most profitable things you can do, and thus the fastest way to a legendary.

The real question is why are legendaries the only end game content worth going for? Once you get it you will stop playing.

Fortus.6175:

My frustration comes from the fact that I cant make any profit from playing the game the way I want, which is going around the map, killing some stuffs but mostly just going around doing events that pop up or doing JPs. I feel lik I have to be on constant grind in order to do anything, I swear in the last 2 weeks I have made around 3 gold at most…..

Oh but you can: simply put, don’t care that much. The way you like to play the game is more fun to me as well. Won’t caught me farming CoF 1 for ten hours just for a Legendary ASAP-it really doesn’t mean that much to me to kill the other great fun I can have in the game. Some people may find the whole thing boring, and CoF 1 10 hour farming system fun, which is fine, but if they don’t like the other areas of the game, why care so much about a Legendary in the first place? Play the way you like is still the best answer, even if not the most lucrative one (to be honest, there’s no “status” at all in having a Legendary at the moment, and the reason I want it eventually, whether in the next few months or years to come is because it will fit her concept while looking cool-certainly won’t be any GW2 Certificate of Uberness.)

On another subject, I disagree that Orr must be avoided because it’s “ugly”) since it’s supposed to be, anyway). You don’t need to farm for a long time-just half an hour will net you lots of Heavy Moldy Bags, which you can sell for a lot of profit if all you are looking for is gold (and you will eventually get rare drops too: 100% the case, barring the worst of luck.) It’s ugly ,yes, and probably not fun to many, but when I play it, I don’t see it as a chore and I actually find it fun to play over there (of course, we are entitled to feel differently about this.)

I do wish normal PvE map drops were better. Even if doubled, I don’t think the best drops will be too common. Regardless, I find the PvE map experience fun, and won’t enslave myself to a Dungeon if it becomes another lifeless chore (I do enjoy Dungeons, but in limited quantities-the Tokens and free gear with different stats is nice.) I need little incentive other than stuff is fun to play, though I admit the PvE adventurer should be rewarded a bit more for his/her efforts without need to wait for the big chest events to spawn.

Sube Dai.8496:

Agree with the sentiment of the OP but I don’t think your suggested fix would do anything. Dungeons would still be the most profitable things you can do, and thus the fastest way to a legendary.

The real question is why are legendaries the only end game content worth going for? Once you get it you will stop playing.

There’s no endgame save for personal goals, and the way you choose to play and enjoy the game. If indeed you see the Legendary as your endgame, you will surely stop playing, but many players still have fun with no Legendary endgame in sight, as not everybody is going for it.

It certainly has more “endgame” than Pacman did, and many people still don’t care about Pacman having no “endgame.” Having fun is the goal. You don’t need an “endgame” for things to be entertaining, though you may be that type of player who can’t do without one, and perhaps then GW2 may not be the best match for you (no offense meant at all.)

To get the all cultural armor, you need 540 G. To get one power/crit ascended quiver, you need 250 powerful blood. If you went to a non-karka area for blood, my guess is your drops are so poor that you need months to even gather the mats you need.

Everything’s a grind. This game is so grindy that you can only obtain 1 or 2 nice looking skins/weapons and it’s attached to only one character you have. People wonder why some players have 1000 hours on their main character and profession, without touching other professions, and ends up complaining about how other classes are OP. That’s part of Anet’s decision to make many things unattractive.

The other types of grind include 40-50 hours worth of FOTM to get a fractal weapon, your ascended rings, and what not. There’s so much grind in the game if you want something nice. Sigh. It’s not like the tier 5 mats will crash the market if you up the mats drops, Anet can simply release recipes to use them up, but the easy decision is to monitor the situation (and keep it at a “reasonable” pricing).

GW2 isn’t casual at all, thanks to ascended items (which was somewhat fixed with laurels and commendations, but equipping character number 2 is a nightmare. And if you have more alts, HAH. Good luck.). More like becoming one of the grindiest mmo if you want your most coveted items.

Playing 3-5 hours a day every day is considered casual?

LoneWolfie.1852:

To get the all cultural armor, you need 540 G. To get one power/crit ascended quiver, you need 250 powerful blood. If you went to a non-karka area for blood, my guess is your drops are so poor that you need months to even gather the mats you need.

Everything’s a grind. This game is so grindy that you can only obtain 1 or 2 nice looking skins/weapons and it’s attached to only one character you have. People wonder why some players have 1000 hours on their main character and profession, without touching other professions, and ends up complaining about how other classes are OP. That’s part of Anet’s decision to make many things unattractive.

The other types of grind include 40-50 hours worth of FOTM to get a fractal weapon, your ascended rings, and what not. There’s so much grind in the game if you want something nice. Sigh. It’s not like the tier 5 mats will crash the market if you up the mats drops, Anet can simply release recipes to use them up, but the easy decision is to monitor the situation (and keep it at a “reasonable” pricing).

GW2 isn’t casual at all, thanks to ascended items (which was somewhat fixed with laurels and commendations, but equipping character number 2 is a nightmare. And if you have more alts, HAH. Good luck.). More like becoming one of the grindiest mmo if you want your most coveted items.

You don’t need all Cultural armor-in fact, most of it it’s not that great vs the price (I laugh at “prestige”-wear it because you like it on your character, as it’s not prestigious at all, nor does it mean anything special other than you making your character look the way you want.)

You don’t need the Ascended Quiver with Berserker’s stats. Nice to have, probably, but never a required grind (back pieces offer the least stat improvements anyway.)

What’s nice looking is subjective. It’s not T3, Fractal Weapons, Legendaries, Precursors, or even the expensive named Exotics with required lodestones. Many Legendaries are not appealing to everyone. You don’t need to look like everybody else, or use the “prestigious” weapons and armors many seem to go for. Nice looking =/= expensive item that is hard to get-that’s an artificial burden that you have willingly decided to bear.

Barely anything is a grind, if you conform yourself with the easy to get Exotics and don’t crave for the hard to get. Even the less common stat combinations are all achievable by patiently playing Dungeons. You don’t need everything in a day, and Legendary stuff and the like wasn’t meant to be gotten in a week, in any case. That many play GW2 at a frenetic pace and dual-wield Incinerators doesn’t mean that you have nor need to. They aren’t better than you, nor you should feel any less than them. Let them have their fun. You will get what’s yours in due time. But as far as nice-looking, full Exotic armor/trinket/weapon sets, there is something good available easily for all Profession/race/gender combinations (I wish there were more armor skin options myself, as I am sure there will be in the future, but I usually find something decent enough that is not T3 Cultural or super expensive.) So easy to get full Exotic equipment is that some of my characters have a full set ready when they get to Level 80 (thanks to my more experienced characters, of course.)

I am not replying just to counter you, as I have no desire to “prove you wrong” and I dislike debates, but more so that uninformed readers may not take your opinion as facts. GW2 is grindy in what concerns “prestige” stuff that hardly anyone really needs-as was the case as well on GW1 (Ascended was added for the type of player who dislikes “prestige” only stuff, but you don’t really need those items if you don’t play Fractals at all.) I understand that getting a Precursor, Ascended back piece, and similar stuff is extremely grindy due to the rarity of many ingredients, but GW2 isn’t all about getting those items at all-they are kind of optional grindy side-quests for those who have the time to invest on them and want them (they never “need” these things to enjoy GW2-some just think they do.) When you realize all that grind is optional, you stop caring so much about it and can’t find a real problem with it.

3 to 5 hours per day is not casual. Also, Tier 3 armor sucks compared to much cheaper Exotics (but most of it looks great). The big issue here is that Tier 3 items are grossly overpriced.

Star Ace.5207:

You don’t need all Cultural armor-in fact, most of it it’s not that great vs the price (I laugh at “prestige”-wear it because you like it on your character, as it’s not prestigious at all, nor does it mean anything special other than you making your character look the way you want.)

You don’t need the Ascended Quiver with Berserker’s stats. Nice to have, probably, but never a required grind (back pieces offer the least stat improvements anyway.)

What’s nice looking is subjective. It’s not T3, Fractal Weapons, Legendaries, Precursors, or even the expensive named Exotics with required lodestones. Many Legendaries are not appealing to everyone. You don’t need to look like everybody else, or use the “prestigious” weapons and armors many seem to go for. Nice looking =/= expensive item that is hard to get-that’s an artificial burden that you have willingly decided to bear.

Barely anything is a grind, if you conform yourself with the easy to get Exotics and don’t crave for the hard to get. Even the less common stat combinations are all achievable by patiently playing Dungeons. You don’t need everything in a day, and Legendary stuff and the like wasn’t meant to be gotten in a week, in any case. That many play GW2 at a frenetic pace and dual-wield Incinerators doesn’t mean that you have nor need to. They aren’t better than you, nor you should feel any less than them. Let them have their fun. You will get what’s yours in due time. But as far as nice-looking, full Exotic armor/trinket/weapon sets, there is something good available easily for all Profession/race/gender combinations (I wish there were more armor skin options myself, as I am sure there will be in the future, but I usually find something decent enough that is not T3 Cultural or super expensive.) So easy to get full Exotic equipment is that some of my characters have a full set ready when they get to Level 80 (thanks to my more experienced characters, of course.)

I am not replying just to counter you, as I have no desire to “prove you wrong” and I dislike debates, but more so that uninformed readers may not take your opinion as facts. GW2 is grindy in what concerns “prestige” stuff that hardly anyone really needs-as was the case as well on GW1 (Ascended was added for the type of player who dislikes “prestige” only stuff, but you don’t really need those items if you don’t play Fractals at all.) I understand that getting a Precursor, Ascended back piece, and similar stuff is extremely grindy due to the rarity of many ingredients, but GW2 isn’t all about getting those items at all-they are kind of optional grindy side-quests for those who have the time to invest on them and want them (they never “need” these things to enjoy GW2-some just think they do.) When you realize all that grind is optional, you stop caring so much about it and can’t find a real problem with it.

I’m not sure if you REALLLLLLLY think ascended is that worthless to get, but here’s the stats.

Rare stats points: 42 42 59 13 13 21 = 190
Exotic stats points: 48 48 67 15 15 25 = 218
Ascended: 50 50 71 18 18 32 + (potential 4 stats) =243

Ascended doesn’t just offer a cosmetic change in stats, it gives you the SAME amount of stat increase over exotic if not more. I think I need to face palm every time some one tells me the ascended are optional. If you really think think the change is that small, think again. Oh my god. When will people learn.

I am not replying just to counter you, as I have no desire to “prove you wrong” and I dislike debates, but more so that uninformed readers may not take your opinion as facts

It’s the PUPPY TRUTH. It seems YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH! (says it in a Jack nicholson’s voice). Now, we come back to the point of getting the cultural thingy. GOLD is a problem. Let’s say I have 200 gold from my 100 hours of playing from 100 days, and now I want to spend it. That’s what you do in a MMORPG, spend it on e-dresses and weapons, otherwise what are you playing this game for?

And then I realize that to get an ascended backpiece, you need to spend either 20-30 hours in fractal dungeons, or spend 100 g to get it. I dunno. Maybe you think it’s okay to accept a loss of minute stats gain from the backpiece, sure, but I disagree with that.

And that’s when you realize you can only do it for 1 single character. Okay, maybe that’s the same for other MMOs. But that’s when you realize the grind level of Anet is actually the same with any other MMORPG. If they didn’t add in the commendations and laurels (which finally made it casual), ascended was nothing more than a grind affair.

LoneWolfie.1852:

I’m not sure if you REALLLLLLLY think ascended is that worthless to get, but here’s the stats.

Rare stats points: 42 42 59 13 13 21 = 190
Exotic stats points: 48 48 67 15 15 25 = 218
Ascended: 50 50 71 18 18 32 + (potential 4 stats) =243

Ascended doesn’t just offer a cosmetic change in stats, it gives you the SAME amount of stat increase over exotic if not more. I think I need to face palm every time some one tells me the ascended are optional. If you really think think the change is that small, think again. Oh my god. When will people learn.

I am not replying just to counter you, as I have no desire to “prove you wrong” and I dislike debates, but more so that uninformed readers may not take your opinion as facts

It’s the PUPPY TRUTH. It seems YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH! (says it in a Jack nicholson’s voice). Now, we come back to the point of getting the cultural thingy. GOLD is a problem. Let’s say I have 200 gold from my 100 hours of playing from 100 days, and now I want to spend it. That’s what you do in a MMORPG, spend it on e-dresses and weapons, otherwise what are you playing this game for?

And then I realize that to get an ascended backpiece, you need to spend either 20-30 hours in fractal dungeons, or spend 100 g to get it. I dunno. Maybe you think it’s okay to accept a loss of minute stats gain from the backpiece, sure, but I disagree with that.

And that’s when you realize you can only do it for 1 single character. Okay, maybe that’s the same for other MMOs. But that’s when you realize the grind level of Anet is actually the same with any other MMORPG. If they didn’t add in the commendations and laurels (which finally made it casual), ascended was nothing more than a grind affair.

1. This game is not about stats. You can beat content in yellows and greens. Getting pink is optional.
2. I have characters in cultural. Didn’t grind for it. I took my time with it. It’s a skin. You don’t need it.
3. run a fractal a day. You’ll have 2 rings that you want in 20 days. Plenty of other rings will drop as well. You can use those to gear up your alts. Every 20 days you’ll be able to buy an amulet. If you’re a sane person you probably will come to the conclusion that the back piece and earrings are not worth the bother.