Guild Wars 2

I have played GW2 since launch. Recently, some friends started playing. They have played other MMOs in the past, but are casual players and tend to give up on MMOs because of the level/gear grind most games use.

They really like the PvE of GW2, because it’s fun to play with no worry of falling behind on levels or gear. It is by definition , a fun and casual game.

One thing that does spoil the game experience for casual players, is that veteran players sometimes forget that the game IS casual friendly. Casual players never go to the forums or read wiki. This is not being lazy or ignorant, as a casual player will experience the game ONLY with the information the game gives to them. They expect the game to give them all the information they need to play.

Most players are very friendly and help people, this is one of the best communities in the MMO space, but I have come across players that are less helpful, and sometimes just rude to casual players.

So I am making a call out to all players, if you come across somebody that is a bit lost or confused of game mechanics, please give them friendly advise/tips on the issue. Comments such as “DEAD=NOOB!” do not help the situation and my cause the player to simply give up and leave the game we all love.

Just because the game is designed to be casual friendly doesn’t mean the veteran players have to be casual friendly. Being friendly and nice towards a group of players is a choice.

Some people choose to be friendly and help casuals. I usually just avoid them every chance I get.

Players that expect the game to give them all the info they need to play are perfectly fine – but they shouldn’t expect people who take their performance and execution seriously to give them the time of day.

If you can’t bother to watch a 10 minute guide on the dungeon run you’re about do to – I can’t bother to carry you through it.

Players need to realize that the path to self-improvement comes from within.

People are people. Some of them are nice, some are terrible, most fall somewhere in between and vary depending on the mood they’re in. It’s just something you have to deal with, not just in GW2 but in life in general.

In my experience this game does have a higher than average number of nice people, but it definitely has it’s exceptions too.

I think all your friends, or you or I or anyone else can do is to remember that individuals issues are their problem and carry on with our own lives.

I think most of your comment is unnecessary a uncalled for. You could have simply stopped at:

Harper.4173:

Some people choose to be friendly and help casuals. I usually just avoid them every chance I get.

You can avoid people without being a kitten. Period.

Leo G.4501:

I think most of your comment is unnecessary a uncalled for. You could have simply stopped at:

Harper.4173:

Some people choose to be friendly and help casuals. I usually just avoid them every chance I get.

You can avoid people without being a kitten. Period.

This is very true. I understand how sometimes people aren’t in the mood to help others. I dislike people who refuse outside sources and just constantly ask questions in-game, even if they’ve been told about the /wiki command, dulfy or whatever sites may be appropriate. With that said, I’m more than happy to tell people that if they have an issue, “/wiki <item of interest>” will give them a bunch of info on it.

Other than that, if I’m not in a charitable mood, I don’t bother saying anything. We were all noobs once – no exceptions.

If your friends or anyone you know has had this experience, tell them to block and report the abuser, then tell them to move on. It’s an MMO so there are always going to be kittens, but there will also be someone willing to help.

Harper.4173:

If you can’t bother to watch a 10 minute guide on the dungeon run you’re about do to – I can’t bother to carry you through it.

This is my point, they may not even know a guide even exist. Giving a new player tips on game features and/or directing them to helpful sites/videos, is what builds community. Simply yelling “Noob”, isn’t.

what ppl constantly forget is that the wiki was made by players, guides are made by players, dulfy is made with the help of many players.
all of them started the exact same way without any wiki or guide to help them, may it be a simple chest know how or an entire dungeon run.

if ppl choose to play that way let them be, if you can’t even bother answer a simple question you as veteran player then i wonder how corrupt you are.
help them if need be but don’t be a kitten, if you really can’t or don’t want to help then just don’t say anything at all.
rudeness doesn’t help, it scares away players and no matter how you look at it they support Anet just as much as you do.

If I see a player struggling or asking a lot of questions, I tend to just point them towards the wiki, GW2 home page, dulfy, youtube… whatever seems most appropriate at the time.

There’s only so much a player can do to help somebody without investing a huge amount of time into explaining it. Asking a question in map chat (something that requires a detailed answer) often results in a flurry of responses that can be inconmprehensible. A guide gives a concise, more detailed and more rounded response.

I like to help players help themselves. Give a man a fish he’ll eat for the day, teach a man to fish…

Harper.4173:

Just because the game is designed to be casual friendly doesn’t mean the veteran players have to be casual friendly. Being friendly and nice towards a group of players is a choice.

Some people choose to be friendly and help casuals. I usually just avoid them every chance I get.

Players that expect the game to give them all the info they need to play are perfectly fine – but they shouldn’t expect people who take their performance and execution seriously to give them the time of day.

If you can’t bother to watch a 10 minute guide on the dungeon run you’re about do to – I can’t bother to carry you through it.

Players need to realize that the path to self-improvement comes from within.

This forum really needs a -1 button…

Diva.4706:

Harper.4173:

If you can’t bother to watch a 10 minute guide on the dungeon run you’re about do to – I can’t bother to carry you through it.

This is my point, they may not even know a guide even exist. Giving a new player tips on game features and/or directing them to helpful sites/videos, is what builds community. Simply yelling “Noob”, isn’t.

His assertion is completely ridiculous, though. It’s great that we have the option to do that, but no one should ever feel like they need to do ‘homework’ before playing a video game.

Jahroots.6791:

Diva.4706:

Harper.4173:

If you can’t bother to watch a 10 minute guide on the dungeon run you’re about do to – I can’t bother to carry you through it.

This is my point, they may not even know a guide even exist. Giving a new player tips on game features and/or directing them to helpful sites/videos, is what builds community. Simply yelling “Noob”, isn’t.

His assertion is completely ridiculous, though. It’s great that we have the option to do that, but no one should ever feel like they need to do ‘homework’ before playing a video game.

My feelings exactly.

Having to do that completely kills a game for many people.

In fact, I would say that the type of people who enjoy doing homework and then painting by numbers are really quite unusual and very much in the minority of (potential) gamers.

Not only that, but a lot of people view it as cheating to look stuff up in advance, pure and simple.

So, it’s particularly ironic that we have now reached a situation where some people view not doing that as a failing.

Harper.4173:

Just because the game is designed to be casual friendly doesn’t mean the veteran players have to be casual friendly. Being friendly and nice towards a group of players is a choice.

Some people choose to be friendly and help casuals. I usually just avoid them every chance I get.

Players that expect the game to give them all the info they need to play are perfectly fine – but they shouldn’t expect people who take their performance and execution seriously to give them the time of day.

If you can’t bother to watch a 10 minute guide on the dungeon run you’re about do to – I can’t bother to carry you through it.

Players need to realize that the path to self-improvement comes from within.

“Wah, I wanna be a jerkbag to people who don’t meet my expectations!”

Yeah …. see? You’re absolutely right: it’s a choice not to treat you like crap.

Moving on.

This probably isn’t the right forum for this thread, but the OP’s heart is in the right place. Dungeons and even Fractals are still a stress for both myself and many other players, simply because PUG runs tend to devolve into waiting for someone who isn’t still running “ZERKER ONLY OR KICK” mentality nonsense, or dealing with people who flip out the very instant that something isn’t a perfect speed-run.

Just take a little breather everyone, and remember that some people really are new to the game, have been gone for a year or two, or maybe just never played certain content before.

Acting like self-righteous scumbags helps no one, and is the reason many people are driven away from content.

So instead of saying “it’s my choice to be a dilweed to other players,” maybe go out there and help them out, give some direction, or in the very least pick them up off the ground. There’s a reason we have cooperative capacities in the game.

My general attitude, is just to have fun, as opposed to ‘winning’. I guess this puts me on the ‘casual’ side of things, but I really don’t care. For myself, your gear and build just has to be ‘good enough’, as opposed to ‘the best’. So my advice is, go out there and play! Enjoy the game for what it is.

I usually hang around the Town of Nageling to fight the Separatist raiders and that huge giant that terrorizes the town. The frozen Maw is another favorite. Both are loads of fun! Often, at Nageling, I usually save at least two downed characters per encounter, and on one occasion I saved four! It really does test your skills. When looking at the combat log, many other players have healed me as I was fighting and so on.

As I read through this thread, my hope for humanity swells.

The problem is that these casual players attempt to join and complete content that requires mechanics and understanding. but these players are so hell bent on spamming 1 and face rolling for max DPS,or maintain the " I play how i want" syndrome, that they end up being in the way and hindering completion. One person this is bad but 1/3 of the map can easily fail you.

It isn’t that they don’t KNOW, it’s that they can’t comprehend of follow simple directions. Example : Troll boss for Vinewrath failing 3 times in a row even after the complete boss mechanics has been repeatedly announced in map chap . If you’re casual stick to casual content. As some has stated either win or lose they just play for fun. No negative intent here on this statement but you can almost class them as
“winners” and “losers”. For some people just playing isn’t enough; peoplelike rewards for their efforts.

I am always happy to help new players to learn how the game works and what to do or not to do.

General game play will provide most of the answers, however there are some things that are just not obvious and require research and help to figure out.

On the other side of the coin; sometimes the help is met with hostility, trolling, and silly arguments. Because of this I tend to keep to myself and leave things be. I usually whisper players in dire need of assistance just to avoid the caustic player types.

I don’t do dungeons and fractals because I just hate the negative nature of the majority. WVW was at one time my permanent home. I left it behind because I grew tired of running around in giant zerg blobs that more often than not became hostile as well.

My best advice is to seek out a guild that is helpful and friendly.

Danikat.8537:

People are people. Some of them are nice, some are terrible, most fall somewhere in between and vary depending on the mood they’re in. It’s just something you have to deal with, not just in GW2 but in life in general.

In my experience this game does have a higher than average number of nice people, but it definitely has it’s exceptions too.

I think all your friends, or you or I or anyone else can do is to remember that individuals issues are their problem and carry on with our own lives.

This might be the best comment on the forums. A lot of folks will gloss over it but this is true. People are all just people.

Casual game usually = casual community . shocking i know

chefdiablo.6791:

I am always happy to help new players to learn how the game works and what to do or not to do.

General game play will provide most of the answers, however there are some things that are just not obvious and require research and help to figure out.

On the other side of the coin; sometimes the help is met with hostility, trolling, and silly arguments. Because of this I tend to keep to myself and leave things be. I usually whisper players in dire need of assistance just to avoid the caustic player types.

I don’t do dungeons and fractals because I just hate the negative nature of the majority. WVW was at one time my permanent home. I left it behind because I grew tired of running around in giant zerg blobs that more often than not became hostile as well.

My best advice is to seek out a guild that is helpful and friendly.

Yet most helpful and friendly guilds will teach you to do everything the cookie cutter and god awful way we have everything currently, zerg blobs in all content Zerker or GTFO in dungeons/fractals, stack in a corner and press 1, so a new player isn’t really better off in the end and they just only learn to follow the leader like lemmings and not really think for themselves.

Its why I want to really get enough gold to fully upgrade my guild to allow to have a more free thinking environment all the while helping out new players and such.

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

chefdiablo.6791:

I am always happy to help new players to learn how the game works and what to do or not to do.

General game play will provide most of the answers, however there are some things that are just not obvious and require research and help to figure out.

On the other side of the coin; sometimes the help is met with hostility, trolling, and silly arguments. Because of this I tend to keep to myself and leave things be. I usually whisper players in dire need of assistance just to avoid the caustic player types.

I don’t do dungeons and fractals because I just hate the negative nature of the majority. WVW was at one time my permanent home. I left it behind because I grew tired of running around in giant zerg blobs that more often than not became hostile as well.

My best advice is to seek out a guild that is helpful and friendly.

Yet most helpful and friendly guilds will teach you to do everything the cookie cutter and god awful way we have everything currently, zerg blobs in all content Zerker or GTFO in dungeons/fractals, stack in a corner and press 1, so a new player isn’t really better off in the end and they just only learn to follow the leader like lemmings and not really think for themselves.

Its why I want to really get enough gold to fully upgrade my guild to allow to have a more free thinking environment all the while helping out new players and such.

It’s a conundrum, to say the least.

Frankly, I think games designed to encourage 3rd party research to fully understand are just not designed well. Sure, there will be gurus and hardcores that know meta-methods and secret exploits to bypass certain points, but to accomplish the game as it is meant to be played should be, in-game information should be the source of knowledge to accomplish your goals. Far too often, people seek the cheap easy way to their goals, to include just linking to a video.

My method is to let people witness the game for themselves. If they really want answers, I can give hints but I’m also not anal about ‘winning’ in the game. Failures are as much a part of learning as success, especially in a game. Not to mention many (I’d even go so far as to say everyone) enjoys success more when they obtain it through their own skill and observation, even it if was tougher than just being told what to do to win. The point you start using a wiki as a crutch, is the point you’ve become dependent on it.

[EDIT] PS: Why is it accepted that if you want to participate in content with helpful people, you should join a guild but no one mentions if you always want to deal with informed farmers, you should also join a guild? IMO, if you’re going to complain and be vindictive toward uninformed players, you should zip it, buck up and join a guild. Two-way streets and all…

Leo G.4501:

My method is to let people witness the game for themselves. If they really want answers, I can give hints but I’m also not anal about ‘winning’ in the game. Failures are as much a part of learning as success, especially in a game. Not to mention many (I’d even go so far as to say everyone) enjoys success more when they obtain it through their own skill and observation, even it if was tougher than just being told what to do to win. The point you start using a wiki as a crutch, is the point you’ve become dependent on it.

While I can agree with you to some extent, there are many things out there which probably most people (myself included) would prefer to not be learnt by experience.
For example, some new guy killing the bubbles during Silver and Gold Teragriff fight, trying to figure what they are for, is probably not the kind of thing I would want to see often.

I prefer to be helpfull, and I accept people need to learn but there are limits. I did a nice l80 EXP full run of AC yesterday and got 3 ppl having less then 1200AP safe to say 2 didn’t know AC at all. I stayed and the other high lkevel guy said to me, i’ll stay when you stay, we’ll duo carry. And he got a guard, me being ele. In effect we used all tricks in teh book to get them trhough, 2 were nakedon the end of p2 due to stupidities in running, which they never did. they wanted to fight everything. We told them they should follow us. And in the end we made 3 paths and we took 60 minutes. Instead of 25-35, no leavers and personal thank you’s form all 3 starters for not kicking them, we ttold them they should practice some more, but they had seen how to do AC now.

It was a good eperience.

Today I did cof 1 and 2 with 2 noob rangers and a noob guardian. I died 3 times on a zerk warrior before I got fed up and swtched to hammer & axe/mace semi bunker. it was disheartening, forcefiring 4 with every recherge, continously camping bows… the guard standing with a scepter only spamming 1 and a second fighting for his life in melee with my warrior…. I had a serious look back into the past, like 2+ years ago when this happenend in dungeons as a normal procedure…

Experienced party and entering with 800 AP and wiping -every- boss AND skip frustrates me. I do not kick out of principle and almost never ragequit… but there are limits…

3 days ago we were running AC with 4 ppl above 12k AP and a guy enetered and said: “WoW, so much AP” and he died 10 times finishing in his underwear with boots gloves and a helmet. after the first 2 downs we stopped ressing. We saw his armor and it was levelling gear, with 2 exotics, from the story line…. SKINNED with a gem store set.
We try to keep ppl alive but when they break stack they die, especially when wearing toughness.,.. I cannot go out and res him between a couple dozen of gravelings,.

Vargamonth.2047:

Leo G.4501:

My method is to let people witness the game for themselves. If they really want answers, I can give hints but I’m also not anal about ‘winning’ in the game. Failures are as much a part of learning as success, especially in a game. Not to mention many (I’d even go so far as to say everyone) enjoys success more when they obtain it through their own skill and observation, even it if was tougher than just being told what to do to win. The point you start using a wiki as a crutch, is the point you’ve become dependent on it.

While I can agree with you to some extent, there are many things out there which probably most people (myself included) would prefer to not be learnt by experience.
For example, some new guy killing the bubbles during Silver and Gold Teragriff fight, trying to figure what they are for, is probably not the kind of thing I would want to see often.

But that part is, of all things, likely the most easiest to witness and understand. Not to mention, there tends to be enough bubbles that, if there’s that many new people just popping the bubbles as they appear will result in at least 1 of the champs running into the poisoned areas.

Sure, some things are going to be tougher and you might lose, but it’s far from the end of the game. And exceptions can be made for the particularly dense. Not saying “do it my way”, as my way is far from the most efficient or even best way for certain folks.

There’s no permadeath, and there are minimal penalties for being downed. There’s nothing wrong with playing by learning. I learned the dungeons that I know by playing, often with other players who were new or with vets who explained certain elements. This luckily is not one of those games where an extensive library of how to play is need to get through the content. With the exception of a few dungeon paths and higher level fractals most of the content can be learned through experience.

As to how others are treated, this game has one of the best overall communities I’ve seen.

Something everyone should remember is “everyone is a new player once”. I had a lot of help learning this game from others, so I try to pay it forward. There will always be negative people/players unfortunately, just block them if needed and move on- the only thing I would stress is use your brain with the lfg. (as the concern most new players have with the game is around dungeons) Even though this is a more casual game, not everyone is looking to spend 30 minutes on paths that should take 10 by having to walk new players through paths who may or may not listen to your advice. These runs are labelled in a way that should make it obvious to everyone that it is some sort of a speedclear, just make sure to actually read the postings. IF you are unhappy with the groups on LFG, as a lot of other people recommend, make your own.

There is no reason to chastise someone for being new though, and saying things like DEAD= noob is not only insensitive, it just makes you look like a tool. IF you aren’t looking to be friendly or helpful just keep your mouth shut, no reason to put down people just becoming accustomed to the game.

Valky.2574:

Casual game usually = casual community . shocking i know

You would think it would and yet, still, the hardcore types tend to act like they’re in charge and that there is something wrong with being a casual.

When, actually, if this is supposed to be a casual-friendly game, they are the ones who shouldn’t be here, if anyone shouldn’t.

…and I say this as someone who is not, necessarily, that casual.

Certainly in terms of the time I tend to put into a game.

But, I will never, ever, think like these people.

I didn’t in WoW and I won’t here.

https://youtu.be/nGt9jAkWie4
Some people seem to forget lessons from childhood.

fluffdragon.1523:

Harper.4173:

Just because the game is designed to be casual friendly doesn’t mean the veteran players have to be casual friendly. Being friendly and nice towards a group of players is a choice.

Some people choose to be friendly and help casuals. I usually just avoid them every chance I get.

Players that expect the game to give them all the info they need to play are perfectly fine – but they shouldn’t expect people who take their performance and execution seriously to give them the time of day.

If you can’t bother to watch a 10 minute guide on the dungeon run you’re about do to – I can’t bother to carry you through it.

Players need to realize that the path to self-improvement comes from within.

“Wah, I wanna be a jerkbag to people who don’t meet my expectations!”

Yeah …. see? You’re absolutely right: it’s a choice not to treat you like crap.

Moving on.

This probably isn’t the right forum for this thread, but the OP’s heart is in the right place. Dungeons and even Fractals are still a stress for both myself and many other players, simply because PUG runs tend to devolve into waiting for someone who isn’t still running “ZERKER ONLY OR KICK” mentality nonsense, or dealing with people who flip out the very instant that something isn’t a perfect speed-run.

Just take a little breather everyone, and remember that some people really are new to the game, have been gone for a year or two, or maybe just never played certain content before.

Acting like self-righteous scumbags helps no one, and is the reason many people are driven away from content.

So instead of saying “it’s my choice to be a dilweed to other players,” maybe go out there and help them out, give some direction, or in the very least pick them up off the ground. There’s a reason we have cooperative capacities in the game.

What a strawman.

He isn’t saying he will harass new/casual players. He is saying that he will avoid casual groups like a plague. Casual/play-how-youwant players should not join his group if it says Experienced/Zerk people only.

He will kick them and that is the end of it.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

due to stupidities in running, which they never did. they wanted to fight everything.

Yeah, I’m never going to come to terms with the idea that it is “stupid” to want to fight everything on one’s path through a dungeon.

I get that that is the way it is in this game, but I totally disagree that it should be.

If you think, for one nanosecond, that real life enemies would just forget you skipped them, like a bunch of “nice castle” goldfish, you would obviously be very much mistaken.

…and yes, I get that a game isn’t real life, but in terms of maintaining some kind of sense of immersion, of course you should have to fight everything you pass close by.

Before anyone gets upset with me, again: once again I will say that I am just not bothering with group PVE in this game.

So, I’m not “leeching”, or whatever else you want to accuse me of.

I just think group PVE design is woefully lacking, in so many respects, it’s almost unbelievable.

We’re going off on a tangent about fighting mobs, but honestly there’s no reason to fight them, especially with newer players. AC for instance, newer players get tagged constantly by the newt popping through the floor, raising their evade to the point that it takes forever to kill them. There’s no incentive in taking the time to kill the mobs. No reward, more time inside

Leo G.4501:

I think most of your comment is unnecessary a uncalled for. You could have simply stopped at:

Harper.4173:

Some people choose to be friendly and help casuals. I usually just avoid them every chance I get.

You can avoid people without being a kitten. Period.

I’m not being a kitten. I usually just kick and don’t say anything. Never have I actually bothered to talk down a less experienced player.

Diva.4706:

Harper.4173:

If you can’t bother to watch a 10 minute guide on the dungeon run you’re about do to – I can’t bother to carry you through it.

This is my point, they may not even know a guide even exist. Giving a new player tips on game features and/or directing them to helpful sites/videos, is what builds community. Simply yelling “Noob”, isn’t.

I never did yell noob at anyone. If they’re that bad I’ll just kick and block.
The problem is that i’ve been met with the " you don’t tell me how to play" line so many times when I suggested a guide, a build set-up or simply an optimal strategy that I’ve become too jaded to do it.
If you’re not doing the right thing to begin with I simply won’t bother with teaching. I’ll simply replace you.
I know it sounds bad and it isn’t helping but I’ve had enough experiences with people calling me names, insulting me and behaving terribly even if I told them in the nicest and most possible manner that they could improve.

So thanks but no thanks. I never insult anyone. Just replace and block.

Jahroots.6791:

Diva.4706:

Harper.4173:

If you can’t bother to watch a 10 minute guide on the dungeon run you’re about do to – I can’t bother to carry you through it.

This is my point, they may not even know a guide even exist. Giving a new player tips on game features and/or directing them to helpful sites/videos, is what builds community. Simply yelling “Noob”, isn’t.

His assertion is completely ridiculous, though. It’s great that we have the option to do that, but no one should ever feel like they need to do ‘homework’ before playing a video game.

If someone puts “experienced” in the LFG description I’d consider it common sense to at least have an idea what’s going on before joining.

I cannot understand what goes through the mind of a person who has NEVER done the content before but decides to join a group that’s advertised as “experienced only”.

If someone asks for a certain class, or a certain level – it’s common sense to take those things into account before joining.

Just because this is a video doesn’t mean you can throw all common decency out the window and trample all over other people’s rights.

Tigaseye.2047:

Jahroots.6791:

Diva.4706:

Harper.4173:

If you can’t bother to watch a 10 minute guide on the dungeon run you’re about do to – I can’t bother to carry you through it.

This is my point, they may not even know a guide even exist. Giving a new player tips on game features and/or directing them to helpful sites/videos, is what builds community. Simply yelling “Noob”, isn’t.

His assertion is completely ridiculous, though. It’s great that we have the option to do that, but no one should ever feel like they need to do ‘homework’ before playing a video game.

My feelings exactly.

Having to do that completely kills a game for many people.

In fact, I would say that the type of people who enjoy doing homework and then painting by numbers are really quite unusual and very much in the minority of (potential) gamers.

Not only that, but a lot of people view it as cheating to look stuff up in advance, pure and simple.

So, it’s particularly ironic that we have now reached a situation where some people view not doing that as a failing.

Then why do the people who prefer to play it the old school way join parties that are clearly formed to play the game in a way the “casuals” don’t enjoy.

Why do you join a party called “speed clear” only to complain trash mobs are being skipped?

I understand that each player is free to play his own way. The problem is the huge number of players that keep demanding I play another wait to suit them.

fluffdragon.1523:

Harper.4173:

Just because the game is designed to be casual friendly doesn’t mean the veteran players have to be casual friendly. Being friendly and nice towards a group of players is a choice.

Some people choose to be friendly and help casuals. I usually just avoid them every chance I get.

Players that expect the game to give them all the info they need to play are perfectly fine – but they shouldn’t expect people who take their performance and execution seriously to give them the time of day.

If you can’t bother to watch a 10 minute guide on the dungeon run you’re about do to – I can’t bother to carry you through it.

Players need to realize that the path to self-improvement comes from within.

“Wah, I wanna be a jerkbag to people who don’t meet my expectations!”

Yeah …. see? You’re absolutely right: it’s a choice not to treat you like crap.

Moving on.

This probably isn’t the right forum for this thread, but the OP’s heart is in the right place. Dungeons and even Fractals are still a stress for both myself and many other players, simply because PUG runs tend to devolve into waiting for someone who isn’t still running “ZERKER ONLY OR KICK” mentality nonsense, or dealing with people who flip out the very instant that something isn’t a perfect speed-run.

Just take a little breather everyone, and remember that some people really are new to the game, have been gone for a year or two, or maybe just never played certain content before.

Acting like self-righteous scumbags helps no one, and is the reason many people are driven away from content.

So instead of saying “it’s my choice to be a dilweed to other players,” maybe go out there and help them out, give some direction, or in the very least pick them up off the ground. There’s a reason we have cooperative capacities in the game.

See my posts above about “trying to help them out” – and not everybody has fun “cooperating” with someone that’s spent more dungeon time dead than alive. It gets old fast.

Tigaseye.2047:

Valky.2574:

Casual game usually = casual community . shocking i know

You would think it would and yet, still, the hardcore types tend to act like they’re in charge and that there is something wrong with being a casual.

When, actually, if this is supposed to be a casual-friendly game, they are the ones who shouldn’t be here, if anyone shouldn’t.

…and I say this as someone who is not, necessarily, that casual.

Certainly in terms of the time I tend to put into a game.

But, I will never, ever, think like these people.

I didn’t in WoW and I won’t here.

Nobody said there’s something wrong with being casual. You can be casual. You can be the majority.
There’s something wrong with joining parties that don’t want you. There’s something wrong with being “casual” and attempting to play with people who aren’t and who don’t want to play with you.

Just like it’s wrong to be “hardcore” and join casual runs and start telling everyone what you think they should do.

People should play with people of a similar mind.
I’d dare say there are less hardcore players joining casual runs and being terrible and annoying than there are casual players joining hardcore runs and ruining the fun for everybody.

runeblade.7514:

fluffdragon.1523:

Harper.4173:

Just because the game is designed to be casual friendly doesn’t mean the veteran players have to be casual friendly. Being friendly and nice towards a group of players is a choice.

Some people choose to be friendly and help casuals. I usually just avoid them every chance I get.

Players that expect the game to give them all the info they need to play are perfectly fine – but they shouldn’t expect people who take their performance and execution seriously to give them the time of day.

If you can’t bother to watch a 10 minute guide on the dungeon run you’re about do to – I can’t bother to carry you through it.

Players need to realize that the path to self-improvement comes from within.

“Wah, I wanna be a jerkbag to people who don’t meet my expectations!”

Yeah …. see? You’re absolutely right: it’s a choice not to treat you like crap.

Moving on.

This probably isn’t the right forum for this thread, but the OP’s heart is in the right place. Dungeons and even Fractals are still a stress for both myself and many other players, simply because PUG runs tend to devolve into waiting for someone who isn’t still running “ZERKER ONLY OR KICK” mentality nonsense, or dealing with people who flip out the very instant that something isn’t a perfect speed-run.

Just take a little breather everyone, and remember that some people really are new to the game, have been gone for a year or two, or maybe just never played certain content before.

Acting like self-righteous scumbags helps no one, and is the reason many people are driven away from content.

So instead of saying “it’s my choice to be a dilweed to other players,” maybe go out there and help them out, give some direction, or in the very least pick them up off the ground. There’s a reason we have cooperative capacities in the game.

What a strawman.

He isn’t saying he will harass new/casual players. He is saying that he will avoid casual groups like a plague. Casual/play-how-youwant players should not join his group if it says Experienced/Zerk people only.

He will kick them and that is the end of it.

Exactly this. I’ve never harassed or insulted a new player. At best I tried to inform and help them out. At worst I kick and ignore. Still – I’m the bad guy here.

if you want to be a casual player in an MMORPG, more or less clueless about builds and game mechanics, that is fine. But you are not entitled to be a liability to players who approach such games differently. You gotta love those casual hierophants applying their “play how you want to” motto only to their precious peer group, but denying that for better players.

Harper.4173:

Just because the game is designed to be casual friendly doesn’t mean the veteran players have to be casual friendly. Being friendly and nice towards a group of players is a choice.

Some people choose to be friendly and help casuals. I usually just avoid them every chance I get.

Players that expect the game to give them all the info they need to play are perfectly fine – but they shouldn’t expect people who take their performance and execution seriously to give them the time of day.

If you can’t bother to watch a 10 minute guide on the dungeon run you’re about do to – I can’t bother to carry you through it.

Players need to realize that the path to self-improvement comes from within.

If you can’t bother to be kind, I can’t bother to treat you with respect or disregard.

The path to snack pack throwing begins with this kind of jargon.

See? I can deploy euphemisms as a “point” too.

Harper.4173:

Tigaseye.2047:

Valky.2574:

Casual game usually = casual community . shocking i know

You would think it would and yet, still, the hardcore types tend to act like they’re in charge and that there is something wrong with being a casual.

When, actually, if this is supposed to be a casual-friendly game, they are the ones who shouldn’t be here, if anyone shouldn’t.

…and I say this as someone who is not, necessarily, that casual.

Certainly in terms of the time I tend to put into a game.

But, I will never, ever, think like these people.

I didn’t in WoW and I won’t here.

Nobody said there’s something wrong with being casual. You can be casual. You can be the majority.
There’s something wrong with joining parties that don’t want you. There’s something wrong with being “casual” and attempting to play with people who aren’t and who don’t want to play with you.

Just like it’s wrong to be “hardcore” and join casual runs and start telling everyone what you think they should do.

People should play with people of a similar mind.
I’d dare say there are less hardcore players joining casual runs and being terrible and annoying than there are casual players joining hardcore runs and ruining the fun for everybody.

No, people can do what they like.

It’s their game, too.

I, personally, wouldn’t, as I don’t need the stress just to endure a criminally boring skip>stack>melee nightmare.

However, if other people want to, they can.

Unfortunately, the game then allows you to kick them, if you want, but they can still join what they like, whenever they like.

In fact, increasingly, having read some of these replies, I would encourage thick skinned people to join groups that exclude them.

Previously, I might have said “avoid them”, but at this point, I think it would be more fun if they didn’t.

Possibly, the most fun anyone can currently have in group PVE, in this game, in fact.

Tigaseye.2047:

Harper.4173:

Tigaseye.2047:

Valky.2574:

Casual game usually = casual community . shocking i know

You would think it would and yet, still, the hardcore types tend to act like they’re in charge and that there is something wrong with being a casual.

When, actually, if this is supposed to be a casual-friendly game, they are the ones who shouldn’t be here, if anyone shouldn’t.

…and I say this as someone who is not, necessarily, that casual.

Certainly in terms of the time I tend to put into a game.

But, I will never, ever, think like these people.

I didn’t in WoW and I won’t here.

Nobody said there’s something wrong with being casual. You can be casual. You can be the majority.
There’s something wrong with joining parties that don’t want you. There’s something wrong with being “casual” and attempting to play with people who aren’t and who don’t want to play with you.

Just like it’s wrong to be “hardcore” and join casual runs and start telling everyone what you think they should do.

People should play with people of a similar mind.
I’d dare say there are less hardcore players joining casual runs and being terrible and annoying than there are casual players joining hardcore runs and ruining the fun for everybody.

No, people can do what they like.

It’s their game, too.

I, personally, wouldn’t, as I don’t need the stress just to endure a criminally boring skip>stack>melee nightmare.

However, if other people want to, they can.

Unfortunately, the game then allows you to kick them, if you want, but they can still join what they like, whenever they like.

In fact, increasingly, having read some of these replies, I would encourage thick skinned people to join groups that exclude them.

This is usually what I imagine happens on the forums most of the time. I’ve played with good players, and not fitting min-maxing criteria doesn’t slow the game down by any considerable amount. I imagine that 9/10 players here who gripe about bad players need to be carried, since it’s apparently so inconvenient to run “normally.”

Cuddy.6247:

Tigaseye.2047:

Harper.4173:

Tigaseye.2047:

Valky.2574:

Casual game usually = casual community . shocking i know

You would think it would and yet, still, the hardcore types tend to act like they’re in charge and that there is something wrong with being a casual.

When, actually, if this is supposed to be a casual-friendly game, they are the ones who shouldn’t be here, if anyone shouldn’t.

…and I say this as someone who is not, necessarily, that casual.

Certainly in terms of the time I tend to put into a game.

But, I will never, ever, think like these people.

I didn’t in WoW and I won’t here.

Nobody said there’s something wrong with being casual. You can be casual. You can be the majority.
There’s something wrong with joining parties that don’t want you. There’s something wrong with being “casual” and attempting to play with people who aren’t and who don’t want to play with you.

Just like it’s wrong to be “hardcore” and join casual runs and start telling everyone what you think they should do.

People should play with people of a similar mind.
I’d dare say there are less hardcore players joining casual runs and being terrible and annoying than there are casual players joining hardcore runs and ruining the fun for everybody.

No, people can do what they like.

It’s their game, too.

I, personally, wouldn’t, as I don’t need the stress just to endure a criminally boring skip>stack>melee nightmare.

However, if other people want to, they can.

Unfortunately, the game then allows you to kick them, if you want, but they can still join what they like, whenever they like.

In fact, increasingly, having read some of these replies, I would encourage thick skinned people to join groups that exclude them.

This is usually what I imagine happens on the forums most of the time. I’ve played with good players, and not fitting min-maxing criteria doesn’t slow the game down by any considerable amount. I imagine that 9/10 players here who gripe about bad players need to be carried, since it’s apparently so inconvenient to run “normally.”

Quite.

Either that or they’re goldsellers, or otherwise very greedy players, who only care about the gold per minute they can earn.

Certainly, the WoW EU forums appeared to be quite full of those kind of players, so I have no reason to think this would be different.

If you think about it, who would tend to hang around forums and fiercely defend a boring, but lucrative, playstyle?

Who would have most to lose, if it was changed?

I am confused how the last N comments relate to the original poster and have derived into personal attacks against indivuals play styles.

Respect please – it’s obvious that some posters here do not understand the concept of :
1) like minded players will want to play together (eg of a similar or near experienced level). This is the same in pve, pvp (just look at how many complaints when highly exp players are forced to carry noob or very new players).

2) The OP :
“So I am making a call out to all players, if you come across somebody that is a bit lost or confused of game mechanics, please give them friendly advise/tips on the issue. Comments such as “DEAD=NOOB!” do not help the situation and my cause the player to simply give up and leave the game we all love”. – is basically asking for a little kindness instead of insulting remarks towards others when someone messed up or is looking lost.

This is a reasonable expectation and insulting others constantly if they mess up goes against the game TOS. I.e. You can be banned if this behaviour is found prolific during your regular play and attitude towards others.

3) it is not rude to point people to wikis/guides/videos/forum posts rather than try to painfully chat about something for 20 mins to help explain something. There is no reason a player should have to explain something for the 50th time if somewhere else has it explained. The person may find it rude they are not taking the time to explain it to them personally in great detail – but honestly a guide may be a much better place to start.
Example:
You don’t take a car apart to repair it without reading a manual first or at least a manual to rebuild it. You could end up with a very expensive mess otherwise and never able to put it back together again. In other words searching external help is a good thing to help you accomplish your task. It is not a failure of the game if there are not enough hints in game.

4) dungeons are not stack n wack for speed clearing and require a lot of co-ordinated effort (unlike some posters here would love to believe). If you would like to continue a discussion on this – post a new thread in the dungeon sub-forum and how/why you think it is stack and wack. (Warning: be prepared to be enlightened).

TPMN.1483:

You don’t take a car apart to repair it without reading a manual first or at least a manual to rebuild it. You could end up with a very expensive mess otherwise and never able to put it back together again. In other words searching external help is a good thing to help you accomplish your task. It is not a failure of the game if there are not enough hints in game.

It’s not taking a car apart to repair it, though, is it?

Taking a car apart to repair it is a menial, probably unenjoyable, but necessary, job.

Whereas, playing a game is supposed to be a fun and unnecessary leisure activity, which you are supposed to be able to learn through the process of experimenting.

So, yours is a totally faulty analogy.

4) dungeons are not stack n wack for speed clearing and require a lot of co-ordinated effort (unlike some posters here would love to believe). If you would like to continue a discussion on this – post a new thread in the dungeon sub-forum and how/why you think it is stack and wack. (Warning: be prepared to be enlightened).

Posters believe that, not because they “love to”, but because they are constantly being told so, by supposedly experienced players, who take it upon themselves to form “everyone welcome” dungeon groups.

They may, also, have experienced a speedrun, or two and have experienced that style of gameplay there, too.

Just in case they were left in any doubt.

all i can say is the impatient in anything they do , they look for guides/shortcuts skipping what is most important the core of their experience and Enjoyment , only creates stress plus that of a Negative attitude to anything around them.

reading a few guides helps , but getting to the point of copying everything onther players says or does teaches them nothing and does not understand why they do what they do in the first place.

so just let them be and do anything they like (don’t even mention the Old zerker meta ect ect) the World in Game is not a Dps race to see who gets the most loot , being over competitive only breeds greed,remorese and a poor community.

some times Talking is the best way Rather than just saying Go to Wiki , thats the same as going to a Electriction and he says Go buy the How to for Dummies book because he can’t be bother to give any advise no matter how important the adivse is , like he just does not care.

the words of you can’t take a car apart and repair it without reading a manual , same goes with these Metabattle builds new players (go to said website because someone told them to because of X its the best forgetting why its the optimal set up without explaining why , how or where it works) this game is different as to why its not Gear based , its all about personal experience and the community that helps that person to Enjoy the game , encouraging them to want to learn Why things are the way they are.

a typical convo would go.

1. Why is the sky blue
2. I don’t know (because the casual copied the build off metabattle)
3. the easy way out , : ok i’ll use that build.
4. a few days later , wah wah wah does not work as it should (mostly because 2. did not explain how or why or where it works)
5. the casual at this point has learned nearly nothing.

community input is much more important that the guides those players wrote , they are guides and should not be taken litterately word for word because the contents does not reflect the experience of the person that wrote it.

GENERALY just do anything you like soon enough those friends of yours will learn in a fun way rather than the stressful way .

when they ask why does X not work they will change and improve taking there previous experience , creating a whole new level of enjoyment.

just copying a metabattle build and jumping right to the end of the book per say skips off of the Epic parts.

Just enjoy yourself and don’t Listen to the pirates , that Take everything and give nothing back.

TPMN.1483:

3) it is not rude to point people to wikis/guides/videos/forum posts rather than try to painfully chat about something for 20 mins to help explain something. There is no reason a player should have to explain something for the 50th time if somewhere else has it explained. The person may find it rude they are not taking the time to explain it to them personally in great detail – but honestly a guide may be a much better place to start.
Example:
You don’t take a car apart to repair it without reading a manual first or at least a manual to rebuild it. You could end up with a very expensive mess otherwise and never able to put it back together again. In other words searching external help is a good thing to help you accomplish your task. It is not a failure of the game if there are not enough hints in game.

Well no, pointing to guides and wikis isn’t rude. However, I wouldn’t say a game is a failure if you have to do that, but it IS badly designed. Here’s a cool/funny video about game design and the player by a youtuber named Egoraptor:

There is a difference between learning secrets and easter eggs and fundamental gameplay needing to be taught. Practically no encounter, IMO, needs a 20min description to educate the player and can be solved with a bit of trial and error on the player’s part. Gameplay becomes more satisfying outside of a guide when it’s designed to be played as such and GW2 is one of those game.

If you look into the psychology of fun, you can come to a better understanding about what goes on in MMO dungeon communities. The chemical reactions experienced as fun generally happen when people go through something new, that challenges them, and they succeed through effort and ingenuity. The thing about that experience with regard to MMO dungeons is that the dungeons are designed to be repeated long beyond the capacity of the challenges they present to generate that “new” experience. MMO’s essentially replace the experience of “new challenge” with the anticipation and fulfillment of virtual “rewards.”

For those who want longevity from a game, this is an acceptable trade-off. For those who want the spontaneity and joy of successful completion, it is not. The situation is made worse in MMO’s because the only ones that have the experience of “figuring it out” are those who get to the content first. Once the “best” strategy has been posted, participants are expected to know what to do. Deviations are not tolerated.

So where does this leave those who come late to the party, and who want the “real” fun — not the “follow-the-script” loot pinata? Well, they’re in essentially the same shoes as those who were first-comers, but they’re not in the same boat. Like the first-comers, they can find those who are like them, and make their way through the dungeon, learning and (hopefully) overcoming. However, there is one major difference. The first-comers had a large pool of possible players, all of whom had not done the dungeons. Late-comers have a shrinking pool that eventually comes down to no one. Guilds can only partially solve this problem.

Meanwhile, most everybody has been conditioned by now to expect easy, convenient access to dungeons (or other content). Also, everybody wants their ideal experience, whether that is a smooth speedy completion with no hiccups or a fun-filled extravaganza of overcoming challenge. And they’re all mixed in the same pool by the convenience tool so many insist on.

It’s a good thing the weapons are virtual.

It really depends on what questions the new player is asking. If someone is new to a dungeon then they should watch a youtube video if they want to have an idea of what to expect because the video will do more than something typing it ever could. If it’s something that can be explained easily in game then it’s good to be helpful. The only problem I’ve had was way back when I used to pug dungeons somewhat regularly there would every now and then be someone that obviously didn’t know what to do and chose to not say anything instead of at least saying it’s their first time and asking if there is anything they need to know.

Responding with negatively to a question is not ideal but we humans are free to say what we want even if it’s screwed up so if someone says something screwed up it’s simple enough to ignore it and move on. If I’m running dungeons then I’m probably not in any rush but sometimes in the open world if I’m doing my own thing like gathering or achievements on alts or anything similar then often times I don’t even pay attention to anything past Guild chat.

As I said it really depends on if someone is busy or even paying attention. It also depends on if someone even tries to find any information on their own. I’ve seen some annoying people before that would just constantly ask questions on chat but I just ignore people like that. If someone has a few questions that’s fine but if someone is asking a lot of questions then they probably should be researching a bit outside of the game because even the nice people probably won’t stop playing to answer 20 questions.

I haven’t experienced negative people myself but I know there are some in every MMO. Guild Wars 2 community is probably better than most MMOs because there is no gear treadmill and it’s so easy to get everything without spending a lot of time. On Many MMOs people are in a rush because it could take them months to get whatever it is they’re after where as on this game it’s a lot more of a relaxed environment. The players that want more of a hardcore experience usually have static groups to run things with so it is what it is.

Tigaseye.2047:

No, people can do what they like.

It’s their game, too.

I, personally, wouldn’t, as I don’t need the stress just to endure a criminally boring skip>stack>melee nightmare.

However, if other people want to, they can.

Unfortunately, the game then allows you to kick them, if you want, but they can still join what they like, whenever they like.

In fact, increasingly, having read some of these replies, I would encourage thick skinned people to join groups that exclude them.

Previously, I might have said “avoid them”, but at this point, I think it would be more fun if they didn’t.

Possibly, the most fun anyone can currently have in group PVE, in this game, in fact.

So basically the casual “thick skinned” people should join groups that ask for experience in certain dungeons while they know that they have no clue how to do it… just to have some “fun” at the expense of the “evil elitist dungeoneers”?

I think you have missed the point of the OP.

It might be their game too but the game only provides the platform and if the LFG says “experienced” or “zerk” or “4 cleric’s guards” and you don’t fit the description, then do not join.

Cuddy.6247:

Harper.4173:

Just because the game is designed to be casual friendly doesn’t mean the veteran players have to be casual friendly. Being friendly and nice towards a group of players is a choice.

Some people choose to be friendly and help casuals. I usually just avoid them every chance I get.

Players that expect the game to give them all the info they need to play are perfectly fine – but they shouldn’t expect people who take their performance and execution seriously to give them the time of day.

If you can’t bother to watch a 10 minute guide on the dungeon run you’re about do to – I can’t bother to carry you through it.

Players need to realize that the path to self-improvement comes from within.

If you can’t bother to be kind, I can’t bother to treat you with respect or disregard.

The path to snack pack throwing begins with this kind of jargon.

See? I can deploy euphemisms as a “point” too.

And this is exactly why you and me should never play together in GW2.
I don’t play this game to have a sandbox environment of niceness and patting each other’s back. I play it to get stuff done.

You play this game for completely different reasons than I do and because we have different objectives and means we should most likely never associate.

Now I will never join your party and tell you what to do or how to play – so please – live and let live and never join mine.