Guild Wars 2

Geotherma.2395:

Fractals and ascended gear don’t exist I guess. And any dungeon that isn’t cof p1. Your right, 100% casual, no challenging things at all.

These are not challenging, and neither are most of the current dungeons. The anti-trinity zeal of the devs lead to mechanics that necessitate this; the only difficulty in this game comes from timing your dodge properly or perceiving one-shot tells in the kitten storm of graphical effects that usually surrounds any boss under attack. Combat is based around invulnerability frames, not the intelligent use of skills with meaningful trade-offs.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

so which one is it?

Neither it is the players attitude that is ruining it for themselves.

Geotherma.2395:

Mathias.9657:

Peetee.9406:

Tired of hearing these casual vs hardcore debates.

Casuals make up a majority of the player base, buy the fluff on the gem store, and pay for the bulk of new updates.

Hardcores push the content, force developers to make and develope new content, and are more proactive in identifying game issues.

A successful game needs both sets of players.

That is true, but ANet don’t give a crap about hardcore that’s why the whole debate thing going on right now. GW2 is so far 100% casual with no challenging content.

Fractals and ascended gear don’t exist I guess. And any dungeon that isn’t cof p1. Your right, 100% casual, no challenging things at all.

I’m sorry but the dungeons and fractals in this game aren’t fun for various reasons. I know they want everyone to be able to play this as a first MMO and what not…But cmon.

Dikeido.8436:

I always thought Hardcore was completing everything on the first try , no such thing as redo and Deleting your account and starting over in a new account if you should happen to die in game.

That is a different type of hardcore. That is where I would use the term hardcore without the quotes on it. But that also has more to do with learning their craft(skill) in playing a certain game.

My term “hardcore” has more to do about someone living and breathing the game, wanting to play it all the time. That is why it is in quotes.

Geotherma.2395:

Mathias.9657:

Peetee.9406:

Tired of hearing these casual vs hardcore debates.

Casuals make up a majority of the player base, buy the fluff on the gem store, and pay for the bulk of new updates.

Hardcores push the content, force developers to make and develope new content, and are more proactive in identifying game issues.

A successful game needs both sets of players.

That is true, but ANet don’t give a crap about hardcore that’s why the whole debate thing going on right now. GW2 is so far 100% casual with no challenging content.

Fractals and ascended gear don’t exist I guess. And any dungeon that isn’t cof p1. Your right, 100% casual, no challenging things at all.

Ascended Gear is not challenging, it is just plain boring and takes forever. It also promotes farming/grinding (“we do not make grindy games”, anyone?).

As a “hardcore” myself that just started this game the fact that i dont have to grind for half a year to get the current top items is actually pretty nice (and i’m used to play korean mmos, so yeah).
I think that what most actually hardcore players means when asking for challenging content is something actually hard by mechanics, because the fight/path is actually unpredictable and engaging while rewarding nicely, not some “do daily quests for a month and then get your trinket” or “grind orr for half a year and then make your very own ascended backpack”. Ah, you can get everything you need from fractals while lvling it to l20~ or so, so there’s no point in running more fractals after that, unless you want to try your luck with weapon skins.

TL;DR:
Ascended gear is not challenging. Don’t even start with that CoF talk, i’m playing this game for like a month and i’m already asking myself why i keep reading anything related to CoF. Fractals need more rewards at higher levels (i don’t care if it’s only more cosmetic stuff, as long i don’t have to grind 250 ectos for it i’m fine).

Phew, guess that’s it, i’m off to play some WvW before the daily reset.

Ps.:

Tired of hearing these casual vs hardcore debates.

Casuals make up a majority of the player base, buy the fluff on the gem store, and pay for the bulk of new updates.

Hardcores push the content, force developers to make and develope new content, and are more proactive in identifying game issues.

A successful game needs both sets of players.

I wish i could brofist this lad.

Erasculio.2914:

On a game like GW2, in which there is no monthly fees, players who waste a lot of time with mindless and easy content are just people who waste a lot of time, nothing more.

mindless and easy content is FAR more rewarding than hard content in this game.

the amount of stupid in this thread is mind-boggling

Oxxy.7068:

snip

well said

To the OP I came from WoW. I started in like in 09 playing them game I enjoyed it up until after I did my first raid in Cata. I then got MoP there was a problem after I saw the trailer for it I did not get the same feeling from it that I got from WOTLK and Cata trailers. I did get the feeling of being happy and wanting something new from GW2.

I played WoW: MoP all the way up until two months ago because it hit me I was just racing to get to lvl 90 just to get new gear. I did that already in Cata when I hit lvl 85. I could not keep paying 15 dollars to do that

That’s what I love about GW2 and why I’m really getting into Rift sense it will be going free to play. I can come and go as I please and I don’t feel like I need to race to top lvl just to get the top gear just to do one raid after another. I did that all before in WoW: Cata I can not and will not do it again. So unless WoW goes free to play. I’m sticking with GW2 and Rift.

I just want more challenging content. Doesn’t have anything to do with hardcore vs casual. Even the games I play casually I like a challenge.

I don’t want this to be the dark souls of MMOs, but would like something beyond auto-attack akitten meta events (looking at you karka queen).

I don’t think any of these arguments really have anything to do with hardcore vs casual. I can play a game 1-2 hrs a week or less and still like to be challenged. Maybe change the title to “Catering to bad video game players is ruining Guild Wars 2?”

Erasculio.2914:

the uprising.6317:

Atm GW2 is not rewarding in terms of time put into the game or the amount skill/effort you put into it, just so the casual player can have his day in the sun and achieve just as much as people more dedicated to the game

Nope. What the game is telling you is that being “dedicated” – aka grinding mindlessly through easy and repetitive content for 10 hours per day every day for months, which is what people call “hardcore” these days – does not deserve a reward.

And it’s right.

That’s how real life works, too. A Chinese factory worker who works 12 hours per day 6 days a week is a lot like the so-called “dedicated” players, doing something simple and mindless over and over. Our factory worker does not get paid more than Steve Jobs did, though, despite how he worked less hours per week.

Face it – the difference is that other MMOs are trying to cater to those who are willing to spend time (which means, who are willing to pay monthly fees for longer), and so call those players the “hardcore”, “dedicated” and so on. On a game like GW2, in which there is no monthly fees, players who waste a lot of time with mindless and easy content are just people who waste a lot of time, nothing more.

brb making 50s per hour in the hardest dungeon in gw2

MakersMark.8420:

I just want more challenging content. Doesn’t have anything to do with hardcore vs casual. Even the games I play casually I like a challenge.

I don’t want this to be the dark souls of MMOs, but would like something beyond auto-attack akitten meta events (looking at you karka queen).

I don’t think any of these arguments really have anything to do with hardcore vs casual. I can play a game 1-2 hrs a week or less and still like to be challenged. Maybe change the title to “Catering to bad video game players is ruining Guild Wars 2?”

Or just change the title to “Make Guild Wars 2 more difficult” or something…

I agree with what you wrote though. I want the normal quests in the game to be more challenging and I want to plan and prepare a little more. Make each fight count a little more then it does right now if you know what I mean.

Because it feels like an hack-n-slash game to me right now and I don’t need to think over which abilities to use on certain enemies. I just rush in and start tapping keyboard buttons…mostly.
And that’s boring.

Don’t categorize this into a"hardcore vs casual" just because some want more challenge.

I’m still trying to wrap my head around how ‘gear treadmill’ and ‘gear grind’ equates to rewarding ‘end game content.’

I’d like to see things like UW, FoW, DoA, maybe even Urgoz as ‘end game’ content.

Not gear treadmills.

the uprising.6317:

GW2 is not the CoD or LoL of MMO’s it was trying to be. Of being super accessible and casual, yet reward players for skill and hardcore play as well. And even LoL is ruined quite a bit from the catering to casuals as the game as a whole is watered down and there is a whole load of depth removed from the game its derived from, DotA, just to cut down on the frustration of new players.

But GW2 just doesn’t care about the hardcore gamer at all, another thread stated the game was elitist in the opposite sense in which this word is usually used, in that if you aren’t the ideal player for Anet, if you don’t play between X and Y hours and are a tryhard in general, the game wants you to bugger off, you’re going to ruin it for the casuals.

Anet finally added endgame vertical progression in the form of ascended gear, and all the casuals SCREAMED that this was adding a gear treadmill. So now Anet vows that there will be no further treadmill. So what is the hardcore endgame now? Back to twiddling your thumbs, and trying to get that legendary while you rot in diminishing returns. Anet realizes this is a problem and thus they are working on revamping their PvP offerings, which in reality, is the only way you will keep hardcore players playing without adding a PvE gear treadmill.

Atm GW2 is not rewarding in terms of time put into the game or the amount skill/effort you put into it, just so the casual player can have his day in the sun and achieve just as much as people more dedicated to the game. Whereas more healthy game design would allow players to play the game both casually and as a hardcore gamer, giving both methods of playing unique perks. Take LoL for instance, casual players are generally as competitive as everyone else and can get champions faster than hardcore gamers in terms amount of hours played thanks to the First Win of the Day bonus, while hardcore gamers will generally have more options to choose from, along with getting to hone their skills more.

It’s still fun for me.

Why isn’t fun a reward anymore? Did we need “ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED!” every time we stomped on a Koopa Shell? Did we need endgame progression in Contra? Did we need to get better boxing gloves in Knock Out?

When did games start being more about reward and less about fun?

Aristio.2784:

the uprising.6317:

GW2 is not the CoD or LoL of MMO’s it was trying to be. Of being super accessible and casual, yet reward players for skill and hardcore play as well. And even LoL is ruined quite a bit from the catering to casuals as the game as a whole is watered down and there is a whole load of depth removed from the game its derived from, DotA, just to cut down on the frustration of new players.

But GW2 just doesn’t care about the hardcore gamer at all, another thread stated the game was elitist in the opposite sense in which this word is usually used, in that if you aren’t the ideal player for Anet, if you don’t play between X and Y hours and are a tryhard in general, the game wants you to bugger off, you’re going to ruin it for the casuals.

Anet finally added endgame vertical progression in the form of ascended gear, and all the casuals SCREAMED that this was adding a gear treadmill. So now Anet vows that there will be no further treadmill. So what is the hardcore endgame now? Back to twiddling your thumbs, and trying to get that legendary while you rot in diminishing returns. Anet realizes this is a problem and thus they are working on revamping their PvP offerings, which in reality, is the only way you will keep hardcore players playing without adding a PvE gear treadmill.

Atm GW2 is not rewarding in terms of time put into the game or the amount skill/effort you put into it, just so the casual player can have his day in the sun and achieve just as much as people more dedicated to the game. Whereas more healthy game design would allow players to play the game both casually and as a hardcore gamer, giving both methods of playing unique perks. Take LoL for instance, casual players are generally as competitive as everyone else and can get champions faster than hardcore gamers in terms amount of hours played thanks to the First Win of the Day bonus, while hardcore gamers will generally have more options to choose from, along with getting to hone their skills more.

It’s still fun for me.

Why isn’t fun a reward anymore? Did we need “ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED!” every time we stomped on a Koopa Shell? Did we need endgame progression in Contra? Did we need to get better boxing gloves in Knock Out?

When did games start being more about reward and less about fun?

About the same time the major movers and shakers in the industry realized they could make more money off creating a compulsive need for reward than trying to make a fun game. Fun is subjective and always a risk to pull of, it’s an art, but manipulating people is a science.

I wonder if some of these guys go into Mexican restaurants and complain there’s no spaghetti on the menu.

GW2 doesn’t have an endgame, oh noes! Now I can’t taunt the casual noobs with my leet gear!

Yep, I can run casually for a few hours a week and, if I’m paying attention that is, still be competitive in pvp and a solid dungeon runner. I knew that coming in, because I read what the game was about.

I didn’t just see MMO and PVP and decide to get it.

I wouldn’t mind some hard to beat dungeon requiring coordination of 20 people. But please…non of the gear treadmill nonsense…Why do they have to go hand in hand?

Reward? Please…beating it is the reward…it should be that hard!

WolfOwl.3968:

I wonder if some of these guys go into Mexican restaurants and complain there’s no spaghetti on the menu.

GW2 doesn’t have an endgame, oh noes! Now I can’t taunt the casual noobs with my leet gear!

Yep, I can run casually for a few hours a week and, if I’m paying attention that is, still be competitive in pvp and a solid dungeon runner. I knew that coming in, because I read what the game was about.

I didn’t just see MMO and PVP and decide to get it.

Even GW1 had awesome challenging dungeons, we’re not asking for gear grind, in fact most of the GW fans loathe the very thought of ascended and begged ANet not to put it in. But they don’t listen to their fans anymore, just do w/e the hell they want and expect us to eat it up.

I would love to see the QQ involved if ANet put a hard mode slaver’s exile or FoW or ANY dungeon really. “wahhh catering to hardcores now” what just because we want some challenge in the game?

PUH-LEASE. so tired of this glorified facebook app that all we do is enter and autoattack city with quickness. BORING. boring boring boring.

A lot of us want pve progression, difficult content, that does NOT mean vertical progression.

Mathias.9657:

Even GW1 had awesome challenging dungeons, we’re not asking for gear grind, in fact most of the GW fans loathe the very thought of ascended and begged ANet not to put it in. But they don’t listen to their fans anymore, just do w/e the hell they want and expect us to eat it up.

I would love to see the QQ involved if ANet put a hard mode slaver’s exile or FoW or ANY dungeon really. “wahhh catering to hardcores now” what just because we want some challenge in the game?

PUH-LEASE. so tired of this glorified facebook app that all we do is enter and autoattack city with quickness. BORING. boring boring boring.

A lot of us want pve progression, difficult content, that does NOT mean vertical progression.

Now that’s a viewpoint I can get behind, horizontal progression. I disagree about the Facebook app thing, but to each his own.

Mainly I agree about the more difficult content (which I’ve admittedly not reached that point in GW2 yet), but it does appear that Anet is experimenting in that direction with the FotM content.

Keep that term in mind, experimenting. Even using GW1 as a model, Anet is bucking the sytem here with GW2 by not implementing gear/content progression and the Trinity, tried and true models of successful MMO’s that have come before it. To keep from stagnating they have to experiment, and occasionally they’re going to fail.

But failure shouldn’t be held against them when they’re the only ones trying something really new.

TBH, I and many others didn’t want change. ANet did… so I will personally hold it against them because it irks me to no end – they had the success recipe and threw it away. Why? Is being different really that important? GW was already incredibly different to other MMOs. No need to go and butcher tried and true GW mechanics, alas that is what they did.

WolfOwl.3968:

Keep that term in mind, experimenting. Even using GW1 as a model, Anet is bucking the sytem here with GW2 by not implementing gear/content progression and the Trinity, tried and true models of successful MMO’s that have come before it. To keep from stagnating they have to experiment, and occasionally they’re going to fail.

But failure shouldn’t be held against them when they’re the only ones trying something really new.

Anet has admitted that they could fail in their endeavors. The key here is they are will and able to try something different.
Even the fact that they originally pushed DEs as their end-game they have through experimentation expanded on that idea to the living world event system that they are now saying is the direction they are going for end-game. This means that this time next year this game will not be like it is today.
that is something other MMOs can not say from the most part since they keep their core game and add to it. Anet is willing and able to change their core game to the point of stating they my destroy entire zones that now exist into something different.

Mathias.9657:

TBH, I and many others didn’t want change. ANet did… so I will personally hold it against them because it irks me to no end – they had the success recipe and threw it away. Why? Is being different really that important? GW was already incredibly different to other MMOs. No need to go and butcher tried and true GW mechanics, alas that is what they did.

And a lot of people did want change. You can’t please everyone. You are being petty, and honestly coming off as a little bit spoiled. You don’t see me blaming Blizzard for not making World of Warcraft exactly like how I would prefer, so why are you attacking Arena Net for not making your personal favorite game? Grow up man.

Mathias.9657:

TBH, I and many others didn’t want change. ANet did… so I will personally hold it against them because it irks me to no end – they had the success recipe and threw it away. Why? Is being different really that important? GW was already incredibly different to other MMOs. No need to go and butcher tried and true GW mechanics, alas that is what they did.

If they don’t innovate, someone else will, and the game will die.

All game companies want to make money.

While there may be a few games that cater to hardcore gamers, they are fewer because casuals will end up spending more money in the long run because there will be a larger pool of players to draw from.

Trying to cater to the hardcore players would mean they have to draw from another hardcore game. Players stuck on their hardcore game don’t want to really leave because of all that time they have invested as well as any real money.

It is much easier to draw from a pool of casual players because they are not as attached to other games and they are a much larger pool and easier pool to draw from since they are not as attached to any particuar game.

What did you really expect? This is the way of the industry, how it will be going in the future. Very few games that cater to hardcore players while there will be a plethora of games that appeal to casual gamers.

Ascended gear is stupid and should never have been added. I agree however that this game’s pve is very easy and the game could certainly use some difficulty increases. I imagine that increases the complexity of the AI would do wonders for difficulty. Mobs in GW1 fought as groups and packs where designed to compliment each others abilities. GW2 is designed to be solo friendly and thats okay but the monsters are so bland. Most simply auto attack and often fail at doing even that. We need more abilities and a more aggressive AI that isn’t so easily foiled. A perfect example is GW1 mob AI would cause mobs to run out of aoe. In GW2 mobs just stand in aoe.

Spencer.1386:

Ascended gear is stupid and should never have been added. I agree however that this game’s pve is very easy and the game could certainly use some difficulty increases. I imagine that increases the complexity of the AI would do wonders for difficulty. Mobs in GW1 fought as groups and packs where designed to compliment each others abilities. GW2 is designed to be solo friendly and thats okay but the monsters are so bland. Most simply auto attack and often fail at doing even that. We need more abilities and a more aggressive AI that isn’t so easily foiled. A perfect example is GW1 mob AI would cause mobs to run out of aoe. In GW2 mobs just stand in aoe.

I don’t think mob AI will solve all the problems and it is hard to code good mob AI. I do think it will help but I don’t think it will really to far enough.

Part of the problem is that the trinity is totally removed so that it isn’t needed. I’m not baging on it, I don’t mind that it is gone, it is just much harder to make encounters with more variety since classes don’t need to bring anything except DPS.

If the professions were designed so that you could build for totall self sufficiency or trinity, it would be much easier to create content.

DDO did a pretty good job of doing that. Trinity was not needed in there at all but you could build for such a set up. Rogues took care of traps, had lots of dps and could be self sufficient. Bards could CC, brought DPS boost, and could be self sufficient. Clerics and wizards could solo content. Only problem with that game was barbarians which needed a cleric healing you all the time so that the barbarian could actually shine. They could build a self sufficient barbarian but the DPS loss was huge because of how that class worked.

There is no need for anything other than DPS in this game.

There are no traps for any class to disable. There is no need for CC because aside from drops, who really cares about trash mobs. Don’t need a healer. Don’t need any other support type class.

I don’t mind the removal of the trinity but because of that, it makes it much harder to give anyone anything special to bring to a group. Some professions have very selfish traits to choose from and any that work with a group pretty much sticks them into a particular build.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

There are no traps for any class to disable.

This is an interesting point and leads me to an interesting idea. What if all classes had utility functions outside of their traits and skill bar, and future content was made to use these functions. New instances or zones could littered with new objects to interact with, and doing so with different classes yielded different results. Combat based interactions could alter the mechanics of a fight or provide advantages to the party that they otherwise wouldn’t have, and non-combat interactions could open new paths through zones and dungeons leading to different challenges and rewards.

For example an engineer could repair and maintain damaged or destroyed cannons and turrets or even produce environmental weapons by interacting with certain objects, as well as operate everything from drawbridges to mechanical gates to mining equipment to open new areas. A thief could disarm new types of traps and pick locks that otherwise cannot be opened. And perhaps an elementalist could create ice bridges or use the wind to activate switches too far away to reach.

The mechanics of combat need not be altered much, but by increasing the role of the environment in combat, and giving each class interesting and unique ways to interact with the environment you open doors to all manner of new and exciting scenarios. For example maybe you’re fighting a creature like the swamp monster, only it ducks underwater where you can’t reach it throughout the battle. An elementalist could freeze the water to trap it above so the party could do extra damage, or a warrior could chop down trees to use as bridges to reach it when it swims farther out. And perhaps an engineer could turn those chopped down trees into battering rams that other members of the party can use to knock the creature back or down. The possibilities are endless.

Erasculio.2914:

the uprising.6317:

No they said the game was for everyone.

Not really.

Remember the Manifesto? “If you like MMOs, you will like Guild Wars 2. If you don’t like MMOs, you will really like Guild Wars 2”. With a bit of reading comprehension, it’s quite clear that ArenaNet’s target audience wasn’t the mass of MMO locusts who keep jumping from MMO to MMO looking for the next WoW clone, rather those players who are not deceived by the usual tricks employed by the current MMORPGs and who see them as the time sink Skinner boxes that they, in fact, are.

the uprising.6317:

I wish they told me the game wasn’t meant for the majority of ppl who actually LIKE MMO’s and were interested in a B2P one, before buying it…

See above. They did.

That’s funny because it’s been my experience that the hard core dungeoneers are usually the ones that bounce from game to game and the casual players which includes the farmers RPers and PVE only players who genuinely give the game a chance to become a home with fond memories.

Catering to casuals: incidentally that’s definitely not what happened. At first it was perfect, they promised many things in the coming months post launch and we thought everything would be okay but then a ton of bricks was dropped on this game and every promise made to the casual community was swept under a rug all at once. Here’s a few from the list I gathered prelaunch. Mobile apps, gone. No new tier armor, not. Permanent DEs and metas in the lower and mid level zones every month because production was so much less expensive and so quick, nope. minigames, stopped at 2 permanent ones. changes to home channel in town, nope. in depth crafting, everything has been the mystic toilet since for any permanent additions.

And then there were the post launch things said that bother the heck out of me. ‘we love legit farmers and want them to stay so we’re working on making DR only affect the bots so farmers can continue to play normally’ and ’we’re dedicated to our philosophy of playing the game how you want to play and still having a rewarding experience’ I’m paraphrasing because frankly I’m too tired to go find the quotes again, basically that’s what they said and both times they’ve acted in an untrustworthy manner.

Why do I still care? I spent money on their product I expect what I paid for.

I find it funny that the OP actually thinks they are catering to my type of player when they really haven’t. See they have catered to the PVP crowd the most and I’m not hating they can cater to who they wants but let’s get real here, there’s a long long list of suggestions found in other games for years that this game does not have that would make it catering to casuals as well as a long list of things they said they’d do pre/post launch that are definitely casual friendly that they didn’t do. Cmon let’s be honest here about who they really are catering to.

Dikeido.8436:

Hjorje.9453:

I myself (Opinion here) have always considered the terms “hardcore” and “casual” to be based on the amount of time someone plays the game. Being hardcore means you all about the game, play it every possible minute you can. Being casual means you play when you have time but don’t just make time for the game.

I used to DAoC all the time. When I was getting off of work I was just thinking about getting into it and playing. I was “hardcore” about playing the game. I loved it. As I got older and I started having more responsibilities, I turned into a more casual player. That was when I found GW1, and it suited exactly what I was looking for. In turn, GW2 does the same thing for me. Now my play style hasn’t changed much from when I was “hardcore”, I still love being in dungeons and going for the most difficult challenge I can find and figuring out how to beat it, but it just takes a little longer to do now.

I think this game trys to cater to both parties, but leans more to the casual gamer. The problem that I see is the more “hardcore” players are burning through content to fast. Reason for this could be:

1. The content is really easy (most of it is)
2. There isn’t a lot of content at once
3. The mechanics of the content don’t really make people want to do it over and over again.

For me (opinion), I really like the content and have been having a blast doing it, yes I get it done fast but I have fun doing it. I love the new stories and trying to figure out where they are going.

As for comments like @Energumenus, I love challenges, and I love being rewarded. But guess what, I feel rewarded when I play and accomplish something. I remember the first time the group I was in cleared Lupi, that was reward in itself. I still get a feeling of accomplishment when I beat lupi, because the people I play with and the classes aren’t optimized for doing runs, so we have to really play to accomplish something and that is rewarding in itself. But I will make sure to go to other MMO’s when they come out so the “casual” player like myself can make sure to go on the forum and post stupid stuff like gets posted on here.

I always thought Hardcore was completing everything on the first try , no such thing as redo and Deleting your account and starting over in a new account if you should happen to die in game.

That’s the hardcore play style, which is different from being hard core about something, which already had a definition in the English language. You could, for example, be a hard core drinker. There’s hard core porn. Hard core just means you’re passionate about something and you take it to the extreme.

Some people then came up with the idea of a hardcore playstyle, but that’s not the most widely used definition even within the MMO genre.

What it’s come to mean is people who are competitive and play for the challenge of playing above all else. People who get world firsts in raids in WoW would be considered hard core raiders. They’re competing.

Take the SPvP in Guild Wars 2 (or any game). It wouldn’t make sense to delete a character that died, because you always die eventually in SPvP, no matter how good you are, and delete a character has no consequence anyway. But you can still be a hard core PvPer and go into tournaments in win them.

The hard core play style is not used nearly as much as the words hard core to mean competitive.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Geotherma.2395:

Fractals and ascended gear don’t exist I guess. And any dungeon that isn’t cof p1. Your right, 100% casual, no challenging things at all.

These are not challenging, and neither are most of the current dungeons. The anti-trinity zeal of the devs lead to mechanics that necessitate this; the only difficulty in this game comes from timing your dodge properly or perceiving one-shot tells in the kitten storm of graphical effects that usually surrounds any boss under attack. Combat is based around invulnerability frames, not the intelligent use of skills with meaningful trade-offs.

I agree in that aspect, boss fights are ridiculous. They were overzealous with the protections from CC afforded bosses and the underwealming healing of the support roles and some of us rightly believe that they have code in the AI of the bosses that purposefully are able to drop an OP AOE right on top of any AOE heal zone created while in combat.

Their personal trinity doesn’t exist in this game for boss fights. CC is a complete joke.

Real Hardcore Gamers play chess. End of thread. =D