Guild Wars 2

With the introduction to champion bags, I thought it would do the opposite. I was excited to roam around and kill random champions that are scattered and actually be rewarded instead of waste my time.

Instead what happened was the formation of zerg trains farming the same stream of champions over and over. At first I didn’t mind so much and I even joined in. Now I’m seeing just how awful it is.

With the adding of the Tower of Terror, Anet made a pretty cool area for farming, but didn’t add enough reward incentive to direct people away from champ trains and the new Dolyak farm in cursed shore. After about a week, and people getting the achievements, it’s pretty barren. This is a failure of two parts. Not understanding the mentality of rewards (like past failures) and not understanding the impact that champion farming has done to pve.

Boss events are still going, scarlet’s event still gets attention, and Tequatl fills up with TTS. There is still variety, but in downtime, group events are becoming more and more scarce of people and I only see the problem getting worse, especially with living story. This problem needs to be addressed. I don’t think anyone envisioned GW2 PvE as a mindless zerg waiting for champion spawns.

Champion bags are not ruining anything.

Before them it was running CoF over and over again.

People will always flock to whatever gives the best rewards, and I’d much rather have people be out in the open world than inside a dungeon.

And this is exactly the reason why we don’t see new zones.
ArenaNet doesn’t want to waste time, money and resources to make a new map when people will just go there, complete the content and then leave forever unless the level up an alt.
They’d much rather make the existing world as rewarding as possible than expanding it just for the sake of doing so.

Removing champs rewards will just force people to find the next most efficient way to farm. If it’s not champ trains it’s DE trains somewhere else, or dungeon speed runs, or farming trash.

Phy.2913:

Removing champs rewards will just force people to find the next most efficient way to farm. If it’s not champ trains it’s DE trains somewhere else, or dungeon speed runs, or farming trash.

I’m not saying remove champ bags. I’m sure other solutions exist than just getting rid of something. Like adding other rewards or changing how champions work. Or if they don’t change anything at all because people will zerg regardless, change the way they do living story, so people WANT to do that content.

the solution to the problem is probably coming, some combination of better gold and karma rewards for DE, and an increase in demand for karma.

Precursors probably will require a lot of obsidian shards, ascended armor will probably also use something like 30 obsidian shards each. × 6 pieces thats
180 shards or, 378k karma
now, precursors, they said awhile ago will use a lot of the materials for vision crystals, now anet is nototiously bad with numbers, so i hope they dont do a 250 each thing… but who knows.
lets say its 50 bricks ingots and stars and electrums
each brick uses 2 obsidian shards
200×2=400 obsidian shards = 840k karma

sooo where can you get karma, champions, and money at the same time.

you guessed it, events/event chains.

the key will be balancing event rewards throughout the world so that all events are worthwhile, and not just running 5 events over and over in 1 map. But that will be pretty hard.

regardless, the highly likely upcoming obsidian shard crunch will probably have the farming populace farming events again, and making you annoyed thats all they do soon enough.

I totally agree with the OP.
+ It kinda screws up the economy.

There’s something anet could do (And i hope they notice this post)…
-
Replace all champions with elite monsters and make it a .. (let’s say) 30% chance to trigger a champ spawn instead the next time the elite monster would spawn.

Well, the problem with the tower is that, achievements aside, there isn’t much to do.
Sure, you may try farming for keys, but the drop rate doesn’t seem that good. And the rare drops, as always, are tied to rng.
As there are better alternatives for farming, people will just do those, and eventually buy the rare drops via gold.

Manuhell.2759:

Well, the problem with the tower is that, achievements aside, there isn’t much to do.
Sure, you may try farming for keys, but the drop rate doesn’t seem that good. And the rare drops, as always, are tied to rng.
As there are better alternatives for farming, people will just do those, and eventually buy the rare drops via gold.

yeah, one of the points I was trying to make was that Living Story needs to give better rewards than anything else currently in the game each time, so people keep the incentive to keep going to that area.

Phy.2913:

Removing champs rewards will just force people to find the next most efficient way to farm. If it’s not champ trains it’s DE trains somewhere else, or dungeon speed runs, or farming trash.

kitten its a name doppelganger. But yea hes right.

There are some ideas i have on how to spread people all over more, but efficiency in farming will always be sought.

Derek.9021:

Manuhell.2759:

Well, the problem with the tower is that, achievements aside, there isn’t much to do.
Sure, you may try farming for keys, but the drop rate doesn’t seem that good. And the rare drops, as always, are tied to rng.
As there are better alternatives for farming, people will just do those, and eventually buy the rare drops via gold.

yeah, one of the points I was trying to make was that Living Story needs to give better rewards than anything else currently in the game each time, so people keep the incentive to keep going to that area.

do you really want to over incentize living story though? a lot of people think its to incentivized right now

The problem isn’t any particular activity or means of making gold. The problem is rewarding rote repetition.

Each champion should only give a bag the first time it is killed per day. That’s how a lot of other things work, and it makes a lot of sense.

They need to give us, the players, a reason and incentive to play in ANY zone that we want. And make it all equally rewarding for a time spent, risk vs reward. If I want to play in Fireheart Rise, I should be rewarded as much as I would if I decided to play in Sparkfly.

Instead, they have made adjustments and pump out living story that funnels people out of the world and into one or two zones. Most of the game world is dead.

cesmode.4257:

They need to give us, the players, a reason and incentive to play in ANY zone that we want. And make it all equally rewarding for a time spent, risk vs reward. If I want to play in Fireheart Rise, I should be rewarded as much as I would if I decided to play in Sparkfly.

Instead, they have made adjustments and pump out living story that funnels people out of the world and into one or two zones. Most of the game world is dead.

The rewards need to be uniquely different, not just better or the same. If its the same, what’s the point of moving to Orr instead of just staying in Queensdale when Orr is more difficult?

Qaelyn.7612:

The problem isn’t any particular activity or means of making gold. The problem is rewarding rote repetition.

Each champion should only give a bag the first time it is killed per day. That’s how a lot of other things work, and it makes a lot of sense.

which makes it unlikely you will get people to help you kill champs other than once a day. also means people will only do the tower once a day.

the real problem is
game is too focused on gold. It probably makes for a strong economy, but it makes whatever is best gold per hour, the best thing to do. Usually the desired things in the game are hidden behind content, (story unlocks like gw1) rare drops from hard monsters (monster hunting) or dungeons/raids.

to get people to play the GW2 world, they need to gate highly desired items behind the type of gameplay they want to encourage.

IMO, silver should be removed from champ bags entirely. It’s a relatively small amount of the profit from said bags, but it is a major contributor to the inflation in the economy right now.

They could also allow players to trade champion loot bags, effectively diminishing the value of some of these through tp taxes.

Qaelyn.7612:

The problem isn’t any particular activity or means of making gold. The problem is rewarding rote repetition.

Each champion should only give a bag the first time it is killed per day. That’s how a lot of other things work, and it makes a lot of sense.

I agree with this or make it so champ bags only give mats of the tier per tier of the map. That is, Queensdale will only give Tiny rare mats etc. Of course there will always be lvl 80 equipment drops but I think for the mats this needs to be changed.

The game just needs to equalize rewards as much as possible, favoring, if anything, harder content.

Mobs spawned by a DE shouldn’t drop any loot at all and DEs themselves should grant some kind of bonus reward (some amount of ore on a Dredge related one, for example) based on their length, trigger rate, proximity from other DEs, …
For world spawned champions, they probably should, as proposed, have a % rate to be an elite instead of a champion. T6 minerals/wood should probably be gotten as a t5 mining proc instead of having their own nodes, which allows alt farming.

It can be a hard work, for sure, but after some time and metric based changes, it should be possible to make almost every open world content equally rewarding.

Dungeon rewards should probably need a revision too, balancing the rewards around the completion time for an average group and the level of difficulty above regular open world content. The effectiveness of speedruns should also be factored.

Xae Isareth.1364:

cesmode.4257:

They need to give us, the players, a reason and incentive to play in ANY zone that we want. And make it all equally rewarding for a time spent, risk vs reward. If I want to play in Fireheart Rise, I should be rewarded as much as I would if I decided to play in Sparkfly.

Instead, they have made adjustments and pump out living story that funnels people out of the world and into one or two zones. Most of the game world is dead.

The rewards need to be uniquely different, not just better or the same. If its the same, what’s the point of moving to Orr instead of just staying in Queensdale when Orr is more difficult?

I addressed this very issue in the collaborative development thread.

Build a system called Global dominance. Forces the playerbase to spread out into all of the zones. The more zones that we control(vs enemy npcs), or something to that regard, the better our overall server reward will be. Similar to WvW. This way, you can play in your favorite zone, even if it is something currently abandoned like Fireheart Rise.

There should be a minimal amount of zerging up to complete the easiest content the quickest. If the server wants the highest reward, the population needs to be spread out the most.

Why complicating with a box per champ?
You just need to slow down the train to make it not so effecient, which would make the gold farming players do other stuff (and still help killing champions if a player would ask for help) – like i mentioned before, If anet would add an option that instead of a champion an elite could spawn they would stop champ farming while players would still enjoy killing them if they spawn.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

IMO, silver should be removed from champ bags entirely. It’s a relatively small amount of the profit from said bags, but it is a major contributor to the inflation in the economy right now.

They could also allow players to trade champion loot bags, effectively diminishing the value of some of these through tp taxes.

inflation is fine, as long as earning power is going up faster, which is currently the case. prices may have gone up 5% but earning potential of the average player is much larger. people are starting to spend gold on the intended sinks. like gems, legendaries. ascended, etc. People are actually making choices on what to burn up thier money now, instead of in general having none. Its better overall

They’ve already nerfed the cash and dust in the bags.

I do like the idea of the champion bags being tradeable.

The inflation in the economy is being caused by a variety of sources, not just the Champion Bags. Speed clearing dungeons with glass cannon builds, for example, is having a huge impact but that occurs in instanced environments that everyone else doesn’t see. The Champion Trains, especially in Queensdale, are receiving much more of the attention because they’re so kitten obvious.

Just make the time for spawning longer. Like, say, 30 minutes. Done and done.

Vargamonth.2047:

The game just needs to equalize rewards as much as possible, favoring, if anything, harder content.

Mobs spawned by a DE shouldn’t drop any loot at all and DEs themselves should grant some kind of bonus reward (some amount of ore on a Dredge related one, for example) based on their length, trigger rate, proximity from other DEs, …
For world spawned champions, they probably should, as proposed, have a % rate to be an elite instead of a champion. T6 minerals/wood should probably be gotten as a t5 mining proc instead of having their own nodes, which allows alt farming.

It can be a hard work, for sure, but after some time and metric based changes, it should be possible to make almost every open world content equally rewarding.

Dungeon rewards should probably need a revision too, balancing the rewards around the completion time for an average group and the level of difficulty above regular open world content. The effectiveness of speedruns should also be factored.

your plans seem to be to make everything equally not rewarding.
Why should i do an event that has me kill 100 monsters if im getting no drops? good plan to make people avoid events even more

Champ train you can jump in whenever. Tower you have to arrange to have a group or be lucky enough to jump in with a zerg, which has been increasingly difficult the last few days. I enjoyed the Tower, I really did, but it’s a big time sink for less reward than can be obtained elsewhere. That is the biggest problem. The Pavillion and Labyrinthe gave a ton of extra MF. That’s a start. The poor scaling is the other problem. Trying to trek up the tower solo is almost impossible. So I pretty much just wait until I see someone in guild asking if anyone wants to do the Tower, then I jump in. I’d much rather spend my time in WvW at this point.

Good content, poorly implemented. We’ve been at ~10% antitoxin injected since last Wednesday. Clearly this shows everyone stopped giving a crap.

Becka Williams.4978:

Just make the time for spawning longer. Like, say, 30 minutes. Done and done.

so people can be mad and ultra competive about killing champions? So champion only exotics go up to 100-200 gold, and people sit around waiting for spawn? yeah i seen it like that before in other games, dont think its a good system

The problem involves loot bags but isn’t entirely loot bags. Some GW2 events scale up with more players but most become easier and can be finished faster (in itself that’s ok as they shouldn’t become harder). The rewards do not diminish as more players turn up (in itself that’s ok as loot shouldn’t decrease). Together these factors start the zerg since players get loot faster when using overwhelming numbers.

What champ bags do is push the equation even further in favor of zergs. Firstly it makes non-scaling champions mobs a target for zerg speed kills. Secondly it gives more loot to zergs when extra champions spawn in scaled up events. These factors encourage the zerg overkill of champions and events as a consequence of the design.

cesmode.4257:

Xae Isareth.1364:

cesmode.4257:

They need to give us, the players, a reason and incentive to play in ANY zone that we want. And make it all equally rewarding for a time spent, risk vs reward. If I want to play in Fireheart Rise, I should be rewarded as much as I would if I decided to play in Sparkfly.

Instead, they have made adjustments and pump out living story that funnels people out of the world and into one or two zones. Most of the game world is dead.

The rewards need to be uniquely different, not just better or the same. If its the same, what’s the point of moving to Orr instead of just staying in Queensdale when Orr is more difficult?

I addressed this very issue in the collaborative development thread.

Build a system called Global dominance. Forces the playerbase to spread out into all of the zones. The more zones that we control(vs enemy npcs), or something to that regard, the better our overall server reward will be. Similar to WvW. This way, you can play in your favorite zone, even if it is something currently abandoned like Fireheart Rise.

There should be a minimal amount of zerging up to complete the easiest content the quickest. If the server wants the highest reward, the population needs to be spread out the most.

There’s 2 problems with that:

1. It’s causes server funnelling from low pop servers to high pop ones with higher GD, causing the same problem like WvW us having amd draining servers of most of their population. You cans olive this by having whatever objectives needed to get GD doable by a trivial number of people, but that would put us back on square one.

2. No one wants to do the work. Just like with some world events, most people just leech off work already done by others. There will be a website that shows each server’s GD and everyone will just guest to the highest one and continue champ zerging in Queens.

Players choose to champ farm instead of Tower of Nightmare not because champ farm is too profitable. But instead, it’s tower of nightmare not profitable enough.

Look at Queen’s jubilee. Gauntlet and Pavilion were “successful”. Even though FGS/Ember existed back then. Why? simply because the LS gave good loot. I’m not saying I like Pavilion, but it was a successful event.

So back to present, is the tower’s “failure” the fault of champ farm? No.

phys.7689:

Vargamonth.2047:

The game just needs to equalize rewards as much as possible, favoring, if anything, harder content.

Mobs spawned by a DE shouldn’t drop any loot at all and DEs themselves should grant some kind of bonus reward (some amount of ore on a Dredge related one, for example) based on their length, trigger rate, proximity from other DEs, …
For world spawned champions, they probably should, as proposed, have a % rate to be an elite instead of a champion. T6 minerals/wood should probably be gotten as a t5 mining proc instead of having their own nodes, which allows alt farming.

It can be a hard work, for sure, but after some time and metric based changes, it should be possible to make almost every open world content equally rewarding.

Dungeon rewards should probably need a revision too, balancing the rewards around the completion time for an average group and the level of difficulty above regular open world content. The effectiveness of speedruns should also be factored.

your plans seem to be to make everything equally not rewarding.
Why should i do an event that has me kill 100 monsters if im getting no drops? good plan to make people avoid events even more

Because the event is rewarding you with far more than it actually does.
After DE completion, you should get some (varying) silver/karma AND some event related reward (10 heavy moldy bags, for example). The change just prevents events being more profitable if they’re zerged (so much more enemies, maybe even champions, spawn), which forces population to concentrate and creates “farming spots”.

Just remove champions from open world and make them Elite mobs . See every1 though I was crazy when. I made my post champ farming needs more nerf. People get gold for pressing 111 . No good , gw2 is for casuals but not for dummies . I still have my brain ( I think ) I can press more buttons than autoattack.

Not to be “that guy” who refers to a different MMO, but…

FFXI had a system called Notorious Monsters (NMs). These were champion-like mobs that only spawned under specific circumstances. Usually there were some placeholder mobs and a window of time in-between spawns for the NM. If the spawn window was open , you could kill the placeholder mobs and hope that the NM would spawn. They even gave the NMs cool names and some even had titles you could earn for killing the mobs. The NMs had some drops that were exclusive, which made hunting them kind of prestigious.

Replace “NM” with “Champion” and problem solved! You could even throw in a rare chance at some minis or something.

a t s e.9614:

Just remove champions from open world and make them Elite mobs . See every1 though I was crazy when. I made my post champ farming needs more nerf. People get gold for pressing 111 . No good , gw2 is for casuals but not for dummies . I still have my brain ( I think ) I can press more buttons than autoattack.

I tried Dolyak farming the first time last time. While I agree that is an exploit of the event failing system, I had the most intense fight EVER in game. That was comparable running in organized zerg in wvw. Pressing 1? Yes. But the epicness is beyond reach from Lupicus fight. And people still wipe. If one way I think GW2 open world should head, the Dolyak farm battle it is.

Champion farm trains happen in maybe three zones in the entire game, pro tip: you have 90% of the world to do what you want in.

Vargamonth.2047:

phys.7689:

Vargamonth.2047:

The game just needs to equalize rewards as much as possible, favoring, if anything, harder content.

Mobs spawned by a DE shouldn’t drop any loot at all and DEs themselves should grant some kind of bonus reward (some amount of ore on a Dredge related one, for example) based on their length, trigger rate, proximity from other DEs, …
For world spawned champions, they probably should, as proposed, have a % rate to be an elite instead of a champion. T6 minerals/wood should probably be gotten as a t5 mining proc instead of having their own nodes, which allows alt farming.

It can be a hard work, for sure, but after some time and metric based changes, it should be possible to make almost every open world content equally rewarding.

Dungeon rewards should probably need a revision too, balancing the rewards around the completion time for an average group and the level of difficulty above regular open world content. The effectiveness of speedruns should also be factored.

your plans seem to be to make everything equally not rewarding.
Why should i do an event that has me kill 100 monsters if im getting no drops? good plan to make people avoid events even more

Because the event is rewarding you with far more than it actually does.
After DE completion, you should get some (varying) silver/karma AND some event related reward (10 heavy moldy bags, for example). The change just prevents events being more profitable if they’re zerged (so much more enemies, maybe even champions, spawn), which forces population to concentrate and creates “farming spots”.

you want people to work harder for less reward though. The addition of champs to the old farming DEs made people stop running them, and try to guest to lower populated servers so less Champs spawned. Until the made champs worthwhile to kill. You will primarily create a situation where people dont like seeing other players, because it makes them work harder for the same reward.

It kind of already happened in Orr to a lesser extent, and it killed most of those events.

the key here is to make more facets of the world offer something different or equivalent to champ farms.

Dietere.3476:

Not to be “that guy” who refers to a different MMO, but…

FFXI had a system called Notorious Monsters (NMs). These were champion-like mobs that only spawned under specific circumstances. Usually there were some placeholder mobs and a window of time in-between spawns for the NM. If the spawn window was open , you could kill the placeholder mobs and hope that the NM would spawn. They even gave the NMs cool names and some even had titles you could earn for killing the mobs. The NMs had some drops that were exclusive, which made hunting them kind of prestigious.

Replace “NM” with “Champion” and problem solved! You could even throw in a rare chance at some minis or something.

NM system was pretty anti gw2, and id rather not see it again in similar form. Standing arounf for 1-1.5 hours for a chance to kill mee deggi, for a chance to get a drop was not good

Afya.5842:

Players choose to champ farm instead of Tower of Nightmare not because champ farm is too profitable. But instead, it’s tower of nightmare not profitable enough.

Look at Queen’s jubilee. Gauntlet and Pavilion were “successful”. Even though FGS/Ember existed back then. Why? simply because the LS gave good loot. I’m not saying I like Pavilion, but it was a successful event.

So back to present, is the tower’s “failure” the fault of champ farm? No.

The tower was a good step forwards. Funnelling the players into one location depending on the event does not solve the problem of diversity or zergs. It’ll just be the zerg is in location y instead of x for 2 weeks and everywhere else sucks to farm.

The tower attempted to make rewards unique to it to add diversity, and placed distractions and what appears to be different keys on different floors to split up the huge zergs. It didn’t work but it’s better than not trying in this case.

phys.7689:

Vargamonth.2047:

Because the event is rewarding you with far more than it actually does.
After DE completion, you should get some (varying) silver/karma AND some event related reward (10 heavy moldy bags, for example). The change just prevents events being more profitable if they’re zerged (so much more enemies, maybe even champions, spawn), which forces population to concentrate and creates “farming spots”.

you want people to work harder for less reward though. The addition of champs to the old farming DEs made people stop running them, and try to guest to lower populated servers so less Champs spawned. Until the made champs worthwhile to kill. You will primarily create a situation where people dont like seeing other players, because it makes them work harder for the same reward.

It kind of already happened in Orr to a lesser extent, and it killed most of those events.

the key here is to make more facets of the world offer something different or equivalent to champ farms.

That’s the eternal debate between nerfing whatever is on the top or boosting everything else to the same level. I usually prefer the first, and specifically for GW2 I think inflation is somewhat out of control.

2 hours of train = 15 gold.
2 hours of FotM 48 = 1 gold.

phys.7689:

NM system was pretty anti gw2, and id rather not see it again in similar form. Standing arounf for 1-1.5 hours for a chance to kill mee deggi, for a chance to get a drop was not good

But that feeling when you finally get those Bounding Boots 1/52…

The big difference in GW2 is that everyone can tag the mob and have an equal chance. This could keep the maps populated while discouraging the zerg trains, even if only a little.

Vargamonth.2047:

phys.7689:

Vargamonth.2047:

Because the event is rewarding you with far more than it actually does.
After DE completion, you should get some (varying) silver/karma AND some event related reward (10 heavy moldy bags, for example). The change just prevents events being more profitable if they’re zerged (so much more enemies, maybe even champions, spawn), which forces population to concentrate and creates “farming spots”.

you want people to work harder for less reward though. The addition of champs to the old farming DEs made people stop running them, and try to guest to lower populated servers so less Champs spawned. Until the made champs worthwhile to kill. You will primarily create a situation where people dont like seeing other players, because it makes them work harder for the same reward.

It kind of already happened in Orr to a lesser extent, and it killed most of those events.

the key here is to make more facets of the world offer something different or equivalent to champ farms.

That’s the eternal debate between nerfing whatever is on the top or boosting everything else to the same level. I usually prefer the first, and specifically for GW2 I think inflation is somewhat out of control.

people can actually afford things now. The question is how much buying power per hour of average play does the average player get. I think now, its more. Therefore i think its better for the economy as a whole. what exactly has gone up in cost much? hw much more does the average player earn now?

Dietere.3476:

phys.7689:

NM system was pretty anti gw2, and id rather not see it again in similar form. Standing arounf for 1-1.5 hours for a chance to kill mee deggi, for a chance to get a drop was not good

But that feeling when you finally get those Bounding Boots 1/52…

The big difference in GW2 is that everyone can tag the mob and have an equal chance. This could keep the maps populated while discouraging the zerg trains, even if only a little.

but itd be populated by people idling to immolate some NM every 1-1.5 hours

Korossive.7085:

2 hours of train = 15 gold.
2 hours of FotM 48 = 1 gold.

Please stop comparing fotm to other form of farming. Fotm rewards you fractal weapons & ascended rings & ascended weapon box & one of the best karma in-game & one of the coolest back item. Gold is not the only currency in GW2.

phys.7689:

but itd be populated by people idling to immolate some NM every 1-1.5 hours

True. People would probably just park their alts at the spawn points and wait for the window. Just looking for some possibilities for the problem posed by the OP.

Champ trains exist but it’s a small percentage at any time that’s doing them. There are more people just standing around in LA than doing champ trains. That doesn’t mean LA needs to be nerfed (lol).

Unfortunately, it’s the nature of people that they’ll find the single most exploitable or profitable thing to do in any game and then farm the crap out of it. Such as it is with champ trains.

I personally do a few rounds of the Queensdale train every so often with my alts because it’s the fastest way to level up outside of crafting. And I’ve got 8 characters so questing solo gets just as boring as endless champ trains only without the chatting.

Anet recently nerfed the silver in each champ bag, so that’s a good step imo. But even things like Ascended weapons made champ farming more attractive, since T5 & T6 mats are in the bags as well as salvagables.

Derek.9021:

Manuhell.2759:

Well, the problem with the tower is that, achievements aside, there isn’t much to do.
Sure, you may try farming for keys, but the drop rate doesn’t seem that good. And the rare drops, as always, are tied to rng.
As there are better alternatives for farming, people will just do those, and eventually buy the rare drops via gold.

yeah, one of the points I was trying to make was that Living Story needs to give better rewards than anything else currently in the game each time, so people keep the incentive to keep going to that area.

Maybe not necessarily better, but different and not tied to rng.
As we can see, until people have done their living story achievements, they still dwell in the area.
So what if they introduced a sort of Living Story Daily Achievements – alike to the single one we’ve got now in daily achievements, but separated from those – that grant “living story tokens”?
Said tokens would be used to buy items related to the living story – even one of the gem store items, but obviously with very high costs (assuming there are 5 of those achievements per day, and the event goes for 15 days, we may say 60 tokens as a fair price; eventually, with the addition of some gold).
While some people could avoid buying via gems doing so, they’re probably the same ones that buy gems via gold, if they’ve got all that time to farm.
And market-wise, while they didn’t spend money on gems, they had to spend a lot of time doing these living story daily achievement – thus not doing more profitable activities, and making this a sort of money sink as well (basically, making people do something else than farming gold, thus not introducing further gold in the economy).

The champion train isn’t just about rewards. Many people use it to level, especially for alts. Before wow came along mmo’s involved grinding to level, and some people prefer that style of leveling.

I fail to see your issue OP. If you hate it dont do it?

phys.7689:

Vargamonth.2047:

That’s the eternal debate between nerfing whatever is on the top or boosting everything else to the same level. I usually prefer the first, and specifically for GW2 I think inflation is somewhat out of control.

people can actually afford things now. The question is how much buying power per hour of average play does the average player get. I think now, its more. Therefore i think its better for the economy as a whole. what exactly has gone up in cost much? hw much more does the average player earn now?

That depends A LOT on the item you’re seeking.

Sometimes there’s a market manipulation, an over supply/demand caused by a LS loot/recipe or just core changes that modify that supply/demand or just player priorities.
I bought 1k t6 claws during Queen Jubilee and sold them about 3 weeks ago at double price. Player incomes didn’t double in this time, they just were so cheap during QJ because of destroyer farming.

If you look at exotic weapons, for example, they’re far cheaper, but that’s closely related to tons of them being crafted and sold in order to cap professions.
If you look at gems, in the other hand, they’re more expensive than before champ bags and dungeon reward rework, even when factoring an income increase.

cmud.5689:

I fail to see your issue OP. If you hate it dont do it?

I really doubt you read even a sentence of my post.

maybe it isn’t loot we should look toward rewarding people for killing champs should be very inmportant when teh only think to kill were world bosses we had people waiting for their daily world boss kill all day. Now consider this how do we get people out of queensdale and into other zones. Make the world bosses push inward, make the other zones more hostile so you know what. What is the penalty for letting the claw of jormag hang around for too long nothing, where else does tequatl affect other than sparkfly. Make the world bosses have an effect on the living world, not to the point where its impossible to level or explore the world. There has to be a balance with that somewhere, maybe every time a dragon boss or a major boss enemy is killed, maybe a major buff would occur world wide, maybe full on gold rewards for fighting the big stuff and bits of silver for fighting the little stuff. The fact of the matter is Anet needs to find some way to make us explore the world again, an insentive to bring people into other zones and to continuously bring more people into the game to populate said zones. Something needs to happen to make people care about the world as a whole again instead of sticking in one little zone all day.