Guild Wars 2

It took several weeks for this to sink in. I’m happier with the game now than I ever have been (still working out some of the kinks, but it’ll come with time) as a result.

First thing you need to do – Forget GW1 ever happened. It didn’t exist. It’s a dead-end road heading in a direction that will not be taken any further by ArenaNet. You may have loved it, may have seen it as a sign that there is some hope for AAA online RPG games, but those thoughts do not belong here. They drove back to home, started off in a new direction, and GW2 is somewhere down that road instead. No matter how you feel about the difference, if you focus on all that GW2 isn’t that GW1 was, and all that GW1 wasn’t that GW2 is, you’ll never be satisfied here.

Second thing you need to do – Realize that GW2 does not take itself seriously. This is not where you come for deep lore or a sense of doom you’re struggling to overcome. This isn’t where you play to get a sense of being in a typical fantasy novel/movie. GW2 is lighthearted. It’s Disney, not Game of Thrones (the book). The Dreamer will not feel out of place if you look at it this way. GW2 is intentionally goofy. It’s not a mistake. They’re not incompetent. It is too pervasive in all aspects of the game from the writing to the content releases to some of the skins for weapons and armor to be happenstance. They’ve done an incredible job creating a very easy to digest setting where you can goof off with friends and strangers in various ways in a beautifully rendered fantasy world. Though less extreme, it’s like watching an episode of Jake and the Netherland Pirates with your child. It is excellent for what it is. If you approach one of those episodes and expect Pirates of the Caribbean, you’ll be sorely disappointed at no fault of the producers or incredible talent behind the show.

GW2 is a birthday cake, not an elegant desert, by design. By being lighthearted and accessible, it makes it easier to work with the gem shop without affecting immersion because they have already found a way to provide an experience that does not require or offer that immersion. They can provide rewards that appeal to a broader audience. Not everyone wants Twilight. Some people want Dreamer. They want Kudzu and Moot.

If you can approach GW2 like the carnival/theme park it was clearly intended to be and just enjoy taking part in it, you’ll be far happier. I am, and while I realize I’ll have to look elsewhere to get the experience I was originally expecting, I’m glad to spend a little time in their new vision of Tyria while I wait. The game is fun, the graphics are great and it’s still one of the better MMO experiences you can find.

Shockwave.1230:

The day I stop caring about the quality of GW1 is the day I stop playing online games forever.

I didn’t say stop caring about GW1, I just said to stop using it as a measuring stick for GW2. It’s as though people would measure World of Warcraft by how it’s different from Warcraft 3. They’re not the same game, not even on the same roadmap. I had a hard time with that, calling it Guild Wars 2 added to that difficulty, but found the game much more enjoyable when I just let that go and examined GW2 for what it is, not for what it isn’t.

Shockwave.1230:

The day I stop caring about the quality of GW1 is the day I stop playing online games forever.

I’m still surprised how many people were so impressed with GW1. It was ok when it first came out, but it was quickly eclipsed by other, better games. I realize it wasn’t really an MMO and those comparisons are unfair, but it drew from mostly the same player base.

That being said, the only thing I really miss from it are the class roles, skill variety, and some of the organized PvP matches(Jade Quarry, Fort Aspenwood, Alliance Battles). At this point in GW2 I’m really missing having more build variety and I make up for that by playing multiple classes. The problem with this is being punished via gear hikes for not being able to gear my all of my characters.

Btw, I agree with the OP, I should have “Lowered Expectations” like you say. The Disney vs GoT reference makes sense.

So… you want us to lower our expectations?

Unleashed.6195:

It took several weeks for this to sink in. I’m happier with the game now than I ever have been (still working out some of the kinks, but it’ll come with time) as a result.

First thing you need to do – Forget GW1 ever happened. It didn’t exist. It’s a dead-end road heading in a direction that will not be taken any further by ArenaNet. You may have loved it, may have seen it as a sign that there is some hope for AAA online RPG games, but those thoughts do not belong here. They drove back to home, started off in a new direction, and GW2 is somewhere down that road instead. No matter how you feel about the difference, if you focus on all that GW2 isn’t that GW1 was, and all that GW1 wasn’t that GW2 is, you’ll never be satisfied here.

Second thing you need to do – Realize that GW2 does not take itself seriously. This is not where you come for deep lore or a sense of doom you’re struggling to overcome. This isn’t where you play to get a sense of being in a typical fantasy novel/movie. GW2 is lighthearted. It’s Disney, not Game of Thrones (the book). The Dreamer will not feel out of place if you look at it this way. GW2 is intentionally goofy. It’s not a mistake. They’re not incompetent. It is too pervasive in all aspects of the game from the writing to the content releases to some of the skins for weapons and armor to be happenstance. They’ve done an incredible job creating a very easy to digest setting where you can goof off with friends and strangers in various ways in a beautifully rendered fantasy world. Though less extreme, it’s like watching an episode of Jake and the Netherland Pirates with your child. It is excellent for what it is. If you approach one of those episodes and expect Pirates of the Caribbean, you’ll be sorely disappointed at no fault of the producers or incredible talent behind the show.

GW2 is a birthday cake, not an elegant desert, by design. By being lighthearted and accessible, it makes it easier to work with the gem shop without affecting immersion because they have already found a way to provide an experience that does not require or offer that immersion. They can provide rewards that appeal to a broader audience. Not everyone wants Twilight. Some people want Dreamer. They want Kudzu and Moot.

If you can approach GW2 like the carnival/theme park it was clearly intended to be and just enjoy taking part in it, you’ll be far happier. I am, and while I realize I’ll have to look elsewhere to get the experience I was originally expecting, I’m glad to spend a little time in their new vision of Tyria while I wait. The game is fun, the graphics are great and it’s still one of the better MMO experiences you can find.

Then it should not have been called Guild Wars 2.

Sorry that doesn’t really compute.

If I don’t like lima beans, do I tell myself that I like lima beans, and that way they’ll taste better?

Didn’t know you can be serious and sarcastic at the same time.

I’m forced to agree with the OP, which makes me really sad.

Zindrix.1750:

I’m still surprised how many people were so impressed with GW1.

It was brazenly different in a field of clones. There was no where else you could go to get an experience like GW1. That doesn’t mean that everyone loved or wanted that experience, but for those that did enjoy it (like myself), it remains on a pedestal because it is impossible to get that experience anywhere else.

Tachenon.5270:

Unleashed.6195:

It took several weeks for this to sink in. I’m happier with the game now than I ever have been (still working out some of the kinks, but it’ll come with time) as a result.

First thing you need to do – Forget GW1 ever happened. It didn’t exist. It’s a dead-end road heading in a direction that will not be taken any further by ArenaNet. You may have loved it, may have seen it as a sign that there is some hope for AAA online RPG games, but those thoughts do not belong here. They drove back to home, started off in a new direction, and GW2 is somewhere down that road instead. No matter how you feel about the difference, if you focus on all that GW2 isn’t that GW1 was, and all that GW1 wasn’t that GW2 is, you’ll never be satisfied here.

Second thing you need to do – Realize that GW2 does not take itself seriously. This is not where you come for deep lore or a sense of doom you’re struggling to overcome. This isn’t where you play to get a sense of being in a typical fantasy novel/movie. GW2 is lighthearted. It’s Disney, not Game of Thrones (the book). The Dreamer will not feel out of place if you look at it this way. GW2 is intentionally goofy. It’s not a mistake. They’re not incompetent. It is too pervasive in all aspects of the game from the writing to the content releases to some of the skins for weapons and armor to be happenstance. They’ve done an incredible job creating a very easy to digest setting where you can goof off with friends and strangers in various ways in a beautifully rendered fantasy world. Though less extreme, it’s like watching an episode of Jake and the Netherland Pirates with your child. It is excellent for what it is. If you approach one of those episodes and expect Pirates of the Caribbean, you’ll be sorely disappointed at no fault of the producers or incredible talent behind the show.

GW2 is a birthday cake, not an elegant desert, by design. By being lighthearted and accessible, it makes it easier to work with the gem shop without affecting immersion because they have already found a way to provide an experience that does not require or offer that immersion. They can provide rewards that appeal to a broader audience. Not everyone wants Twilight. Some people want Dreamer. They want Kudzu and Moot.

If you can approach GW2 like the carnival/theme park it was clearly intended to be and just enjoy taking part in it, you’ll be far happier. I am, and while I realize I’ll have to look elsewhere to get the experience I was originally expecting, I’m glad to spend a little time in their new vision of Tyria while I wait. The game is fun, the graphics are great and it’s still one of the better MMO experiences you can find.

Then it should not have been called Guild Wars 2.

Yes, and nor should have the manifesto been what it was.

Chorel.1720:

So… you want us to lower our expectations?

Only change them. I don’t lower my expectations when reading “You Are My I Love You” to my 18 month old daughter. I also don’t look for the wit of Tyrion Lannister or the raw honest nature of Ed Tom Bell. They are different expectations, but not lower or higher.

Unleashed.6195:

It took several weeks for this to sink in. I’m happier with the game now than I ever have been (still working out some of the kinks, but it’ll come with time) as a result.

First thing you need to do – Forget GW1 ever happened. It didn’t exist. It’s a dead-end road heading in a direction that will not be taken any further by ArenaNet. You may have loved it, may have seen it as a sign that there is some hope for AAA online RPG games, but those thoughts do not belong here. They drove back to home, started off in a new direction, and GW2 is somewhere down that road instead. No matter how you feel about the difference, if you focus on all that GW2 isn’t that GW1 was, and all that GW1 wasn’t that GW2 is, you’ll never be satisfied here.

Second thing you need to do – Realize that GW2 does not take itself seriously. This is not where you come for deep lore or a sense of doom you’re struggling to overcome. This isn’t where you play to get a sense of being in a typical fantasy novel/movie. GW2 is lighthearted. It’s Disney, not Game of Thrones (the book). The Dreamer will not feel out of place if you look at it this way. GW2 is intentionally goofy. It’s not a mistake. They’re not incompetent. It is too pervasive in all aspects of the game from the writing to the content releases to some of the skins for weapons and armor to be happenstance. They’ve done an incredible job creating a very easy to digest setting where you can goof off with friends and strangers in various ways in a beautifully rendered fantasy world. Though less extreme, it’s like watching an episode of Jake and the Netherland Pirates with your child. It is excellent for what it is. If you approach one of those episodes and expect Pirates of the Caribbean, you’ll be sorely disappointed at no fault of the producers or incredible talent behind the show.

GW2 is a birthday cake, not an elegant desert, by design. By being lighthearted and accessible, it makes it easier to work with the gem shop without affecting immersion because they have already found a way to provide an experience that does not require or offer that immersion. They can provide rewards that appeal to a broader audience. Not everyone wants Twilight. Some people want Dreamer. They want Kudzu and Moot.

If you can approach GW2 like the carnival/theme park it was clearly intended to be and just enjoy taking part in it, you’ll be far happier. I am, and while I realize I’ll have to look elsewhere to get the experience I was originally expecting, I’m glad to spend a little time in their new vision of Tyria while I wait. The game is fun, the graphics are great and it’s still one of the better MMO experiences you can find.

I’m afraid a few, specific instances of “goofiness” do not, your point, make.

I can summon just as many “serious” things about GW2. Look at the personal story. People being murdered, loss of life everywhere, struggles to survive. It was not pokemon bubble bounce bumblekittenery.

So, no, I don’t think I’ll be changing my mind to what you envision the game as. i think I’ll keep expecting what they’ve ALREADY released and have stated and/or hinted, is to come.

Bubye.

Don’t expect anything you won’t be disappointed also

Right now I have no expectations. They took my mini straight out of my bank, told me that my fused weapon skin wasn’t tradable after all just because and nerfed a bunch of belongings simply because they could.

It has become blatantly obvious to me that they have zero respect for their players. Who knows, they might even take active pleasure in playing whack-a-mole with us. Whatever the case is I’ve stopped hoping that things will improve. Guild Wars 2 is still fun enough but it will never live up to its true potential.

Rambodacious.7495:

I’m afraid a few, specific instances of “goofiness” do not, your point, make.

I can summon just as many “serious” things about GW2. Look at the personal story. People being murdered, loss of life everywhere, struggles to survive. It was not pokemon bubble bounce bumblekittenery.

Mufasa died in The Lion King. Scar nearly starved the entire Savannah after taking over. Zazu was imprisoned and threatened to be eaten. They had a leopard eat a baby in Tarzan. That doesn’t make either the diary of Anne Frank.

Unleashed.6195:

Rambodacious.7495:

I’m afraid a few, specific instances of “goofiness” do not, your point, make.

I can summon just as many “serious” things about GW2. Look at the personal story. People being murdered, loss of life everywhere, struggles to survive. It was not pokemon bubble bounce bumblekittenery.

Mufasa died in The Lion King. Scar nearly starved the entire Savannah after taking over. Zazu was imprisoned and threatened to be eaten. They had a leopard eat a baby in Tarzan. That doesn’t make either the diary of Anne Frank.

Indeed. That kind of stuff has nothing to do with something being “serious” or not. Take for example Starship Troopers xD

Fungalfoot.7213:

It has become blatantly obvious to me that they have zero respect for their players.

I couldn’t disagree more. When you see how their service department handles issues, how much they strive to communicate with what is often an extremely hostile playerbase, it’s clear they respect and care about their playerbase.

Not every decision they make will please everyone, they do the best the can in almost every aspect of the game in keeping with their vision of the game.

Hey, I remember that vision. How I wasn’t supposed to have to worry about grinding and how seeing other players was going to make me happy. Whatever happened to that?

Zindrix.1750:

I’m still surprised how many people were so impressed with GW1. It was ok when it first came out, but it was quickly eclipsed by other, better games. I realize it wasn’t really an MMO and those comparisons are unfair, but it drew from mostly the same player base.

See, there are two mistakes in the above paragraph that explains your surprise. GW1 wasn’t that special – it has a myriad of rather huge flaws. I wouldn’t say it made people “so impressed”.

The reason why it’s mentioned so often by GW1 players is due to how it did not have the same playerbase as MMOs. This changed the entire game. Whenever someone went to a GW1 forum asking for an increase in the level cap, or to have more powerful items, or to have mounts, or to have any other of the time sinks that classic MMORPGs disguise as “features”, the community as a whole would reply with, “This isn’t that kind of game, what you are looking for is over there in WoW”.

With GW2, the community as a whole would actually demand those things. This game draws from the same player base as classic MMORPGs, and is much worse for it. While GW1 did not reach its full potential due to some bad design decisions and a lot of technical issues, GW2 is never going to reach its full potential because its community doesn’t want it to.

For the records, telling people to settle for less doesn’t really make it any better.

Unleashed.6195:

Not every decision they make will please everyone, they do the best the can in almost every aspect of the game in keeping with their vision of the game.

They threw their vision of the game through the window when they began losing players, at the “3 months after release” bleed typical of MMORPGs.

Erasculio.2914:

GW1 wasn’t that special – it has a myriad of rather huge flaws. I wouldn’t say it made people “so impressed”.

I’d disagree. It’s still the most unique online RPG I’ve ever played, and was impressed. I’m just enough (1 mostly whole person) to qualify as people. But, I agree with most of your next two paragraphs.

Erasculio.2914:

For the records, telling people to settle for less doesn’t really make it any better.

Of course not, it also doesn’t make it worse. What it does do, is have it so that you do not complain that the hammer you’re carrying is too poor at tightening bolts. It keeps you focused on either wanting it to be a better hammer, or realizing you have the wrong tool for the job.

Erasculio.2914:

They threw their vision of the game through the window when they began losing players, at the “3 months after release” bleed typical of MMORPGs.

I don’t work there. I don’t know their stats or their decision making process. I only know what the game was like at launch and now, what content exists and what does not. They have a vision now, whether it is the same vision as the old or no, and their decisions are based on that vision.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Unleashed.6195:

Rambodacious.7495:

I’m afraid a few, specific instances of “goofiness” do not, your point, make.

I can summon just as many “serious” things about GW2. Look at the personal story. People being murdered, loss of life everywhere, struggles to survive. It was not pokemon bubble bounce bumblekittenery.

Mufasa died in The Lion King. Scar nearly starved the entire Savannah after taking over. Zazu was imprisoned and threatened to be eaten. They had a leopard eat a baby in Tarzan. That doesn’t make either the diary of Anne Frank.

Indeed. That kind of stuff has nothing to do with something being “serious” or not. Take for example Starship Troopers xD

Best movie Evar!!!! Want to know more?

Unleashed.6195:

I don’t work there. I don’t know their stats or their decision making process. I only know what the game was like at launch and now, what content exists and what does not. They have a vision now, whether it is the same vision as the old or no, and their decisions are based on that vision.

But if ArenaNet changes their vision of the game due to people complaining, doesn’t it mean that players should complain as much as we can?

We don’t know how ArenaNet’s decision process works. So, we cannot know. But, not knowing, we can make conjectures. What if… What if the switch to a more grind-based Ascended gear, to a more gear gated dungeon experience with Fractals, to time-gated content with daily achievements and so on, and etc, came because players asked for it?

And, if we cannot prove otherwise, and if that probability isn’t exactly unlikely… Doesn’t that mean our feedback can change the game enough to modify even something so at the core of the game as ArenaNet’s vision for GW2?

And so, doesn’t that mean we have almost the obligation to voice our feedback as much as possible, because not doing so would mean passively accepting the changes brought forth due to other people’s feedback?

Master of Timespace.2548:

Unleashed.6195:

Rambodacious.7495:

I’m afraid a few, specific instances of “goofiness” do not, your point, make.

I can summon just as many “serious” things about GW2. Look at the personal story. People being murdered, loss of life everywhere, struggles to survive. It was not pokemon bubble bounce bumblekittenery.

Mufasa died in The Lion King. Scar nearly starved the entire Savannah after taking over. Zazu was imprisoned and threatened to be eaten. They had a leopard eat a baby in Tarzan. That doesn’t make either the diary of Anne Frank.

Indeed. That kind of stuff has nothing to do with something being “serious” or not. Take for example Starship Troopers xD

The novel by Heinlein or the movie?

. . . you know what else had a lot of serious-type stuff happening which I couldn’t take serious after a while? “The Sopranos”.

Also, one of my favorite shows is both goofy silly and deadly serious, and sometimes swings between the two in the same hour. “Castle”. (Nathan is such an underrated actor.)

Erasculio.2914:

And so, doesn’t that mean we have almost the obligation to voice our feedback as much as possible, because not doing so would mean passively accepting the changes brought forth due to other people’s feedback?

The feedback that matters are the stats from the gem store. The answer as to what kind of feedback they’ve been getting so far is clear by looking at what they’re releasing.

Voicing any opinion here that contradicts those things may make us feel better, but like the man screaming at the river as it washes over him and carries him downstream, sometimes you have to know to either swim or get out of the water. That’s my advice, swim or find the bank.

Changing your expectations doesn’t necessarily mean lowering them.

There are many things about this game that are superior (for me) to Guild Wars 1. For example, the lack of pathing and the auction house. I like to fight underwater. Like to dodge and yes, I love jumping puzzles.

Expecting everything to be one way and changing those expectations doesn’t mean lowering them. Guild Wars 1 was a great game…but it also had myriad flaws.

For example, standing around Spamadan to sell stuff was one of my least favorite things to do…and I don’t have to anymore.

Guild Wars 2 is a mixed bag for Guild Wars 1 players…but some of that bag is actually better.

Vayne.8563:

Changing your expectations doesn’t necessarily mean lowering them…..
Guild Wars 2 is a mixed bag for Guild Wars 1 players…but some of that bag is actually better.

I agree with the first sentence (as has been said a few times here) but found the second out of synch with the advice given unless you’re equally fine saying “Guild Wars 2 is a mixed bag for Diablo III players”. Part of the point is that it’s time to just let go of all comparison to Guild Wars 1. They’re not parent/child. They’re not siblings. They’re not even cousins. They’re third cousins by marriage that speak different languages.

Unleashed.6195:

The feedback that matters are the stats from the gem store.

I don’t believe the Gem Store talks. They sure have golems, but not one like HOBO-tron.

In other words, how much stuff sells in the Gem Store is an indirect reflection of many things. Are sales low because players don’t like what is being sold? Are sales low because players have stopped playing, and so there’s no one to buy anything? Are sales low because people have heard rumors of something big coming soon, and so they are saving their money right now?

The hypothetical scenario above (I doubt Gem Store sales are low) would further branch: what it is that players don’t like in what is currently being sold? Why aren’t players playing more? What is that rumor, and how can it be used for profit? Those answers are not the kind of thing an automated system could faithfully answer. As limited a source of feedback as the forum is, it’s still one of ArenaNet’s main source for that kind of thing.

Doesn’t that leave us with the same conclusion? That as far as feedback goes, it’s eat or be eaten as ArenaNet changes the game based on player feedback, and if not yours it will be someone else’s?

Erasculio.2914:

I don’t believe the Gem Store talks. They sure have golems, but not one like HOBO-tron.

Hehe, but it does, it speaks volumes. If there are two dozen forum threads saying “I’m not a fan of these free-to-play monetization strategies, it feels like you’ve lost your soul.” but they are selling $100,000 a day worth of those items on the gem store, the voice of the gem store wins. The most popular language in use by all cash shop games is not Chinese or English, it’s revenue. DAUs and MAUs and ARPUs.

Erasculio.2914:

In other words, how much stuff sells in the Gem Store is an indirect reflection of many things. Are sales low because players don’t like what is being sold? Are sales low because players have stopped playing, and so there’s no one to buy anything? Are sales low because people have heard rumors of something big coming soon, and so they are saving their money right now?

Yes, what we say here can flavor the voice of the gem store. It doesn’t override it though. If you’re selling a million items a day but every forum thread says it’s a horrible thing to sell and buy, they’re going to make more of those items and put them up for sale. That exact scenario is not rare in free-to-play monetization. What people vocal on the forums say they do and won’t want and what sells and doesn’t sell have only a loose relationship with one another.

Erasculio.2914:

Doesn’t that leave us with the same conclusion? That as far as feedback goes, it’s eat or be eaten as ArenaNet changes the game based on player feedback, and if not yours it will be someone else’s?

Knowing they have both the forums working and gem store data, all we have to do to see what it is they’re learning from the combination is to look at the content they’re producing. What did they learn from Aetherblade Skins that used the ticket/chest system? They learned $$. If they didn’t, we’d have a different way of earning the Zodiac skins that just released.

I think ANet has made the transition from niche company to mainstream. So I feel like they are likely to do whatever the largest portion of the market wants, while also broadening the market today they appeal to. Broadening the market they appeal to alienates people that they were a niche for, but it’s also going to get them more people in game and it’s going to get more people paying into the gemstone. NC Soft it seems is driving very important decisions on direction. It’s become much more about the bottom line with this than the original guild Wars.

That’s all well and good, but what the mass market wants isn’t what I want. It’s fine for a company to make as much money as they can, but I’m not enjoying what comes with that.

It’s definitely time for another hiatus for me. From the game, the forums, from all GW2 news, everything related to the game for a while. Not sure if it’ll be for 6 months again or longer or shorter. But I need to give the game time to figure out its direction. If it’s not a direction I like I can’t let myself be fooled a third time even if it’s ANet, the developer of my favorite game of all time.

If I could have it my way my wish list would be more horizontal progression, reduce the cost and time of vertical progression so it’s barely existent for casual players, more focus on quality story and storytelling elements, follow through on the commitment to saying you can pick up and put down and pick the game back up and never miss a beat, revisitable story elements, and a better balance of the way rewards are handed out between farming and challenging content, and finally more challenging combat scenarios in PvE.

This is my last post for at least a while, here’s to hoping the game truly moves to be a better evolution of itself and satisfies everyone to the fullest. Whether it’s possible to reach or not, strive for perfection.

It did take me a while to adjust to GW2, but I really like it now I have. What a lot of GW1 players didn’t realise was that it wasn’t really an MMO. It was an RPG that you could play with a party, with the towns essentially serving as a (very nice) lobby system. It was really much more like Diablo 2 (with better graphics/setting/storyline/gameplay etc.) than World of Warcraft – which possibly isn’t all that surprising since supposedly some of the original Arenanet devs had previous worked on Diablo 2 at Blizzard. That I think explains a lot of the ‘culture shock’ type criticism that Guild Wars 2 had at release, and the OP is spot on with his ‘completely different starting point’ argument.

I did like the epic storyline of Guild Wars 1, the sense that you were actually playing through something (even when just randomly running around Lornar’s Pass with henchies), but Guild Wars 2 is fantastic in its own way. Making the same game over and over again doesn’t work, and ultimately bores fans – see Unreal Tournament 2003 – Unreal Tournament 2004 – Unreal Tournament 3 for an example.

Carzor Stelatis.9435:

I did like the epic storyline of Guild Wars 1, the sense that you were actually playing through something (even when just randomly running around Lornar’s Pass with henchies), but Guild Wars 2 is fantastic in its own way. Making the same game over and over again doesn’t work, and ultimately bores fans – see Unreal Tournament 2003 – Unreal Tournament 2004 – Unreal Tournament 3 for an example.

I still hope they create a sequel to GW1 in more than name. If not them, someone. It’s the kind of project where I’d make a $1000 kickstarter pledge to see it happen.

99% of GW2 content is now as stale as GW1 content. With the announcement that no true expansion is currently in the works, GW2 is essentially as “dead” as GW1 as far as I’m concerned. Once I fully realized these two points, I went back to GW1 as my main game since I like it better; I even bought a new account – GW Trilogy and EotN – to get the full experience. I still play GW2 from time to time when I feel like doing something different. I now consider GW1 and GW2 to be siblings rather than predecessor and successor.

I did everything you said. And I realized, I absolutely, positively, with all my heart, truly…. still don’t like this game because it’s not a good game with another game supporting it, and it’s still not a good game on its own. Boring content, unbalanced classes, heck, the Ranger class might as well not exist in this game currently for all the dps it does, repetitive content, incredibly dull armor, and finally, the lack of good goals to accomplish make this game a complete and utter waste of my time. They could definitely improve it by adding a few things such as better dynamic events and actual new content every two weeks. But at the moment, it’s an utter waste.

Unleashed.6195:

Vayne.8563:

Changing your expectations doesn’t necessarily mean lowering them…..
Guild Wars 2 is a mixed bag for Guild Wars 1 players…but some of that bag is actually better.

I agree with the first sentence (as has been said a few times here) but found the second out of synch with the advice given unless you’re equally fine saying “Guild Wars 2 is a mixed bag for Diablo III players”. Part of the point is that it’s time to just let go of all comparison to Guild Wars 1. They’re not parent/child. They’re not siblings. They’re not even cousins. They’re third cousins by marriage that speak different languages.

Depends I think on your focus. I see this as more of a sequel than you do, because I don’t focus on mechanics. I focus on something completely different from mechanics. I’m not even sure what you’d call it. lol

I essentially play this game in much the same way I played Guild Wars 1 (and I’ve yet to find any other MMO I can play that way). I basically lock and load. I lose myself in the world. I could do that in Guild Wars 1 and I could do that here. I can’t do that in WoW.

I pull the same way, use positioning the same way, I focus on damage mitigation instead of healing the same way. And yes, I feel a part of the world the same way.

But more than anything, I think Guild Wars 2 is the spiritual successor to Guild Wars 1 for another reason. In Guild Wars 1, Anet innovated. They broke a lot of genre rules, even having a multiplayer game that didn’t charge a sub fee. That was huge back then.

Here in Guild Wars 2 they’re breaking rules again. Not having a trinity. Anyone can rez. These are MMO mores that Anet has moved away from. Whether you like what they’ve done or you don’t, they’ve iterated…not just on MMOs but on Guild Wars 1 as well.

Anet shakes things up. It’s what they do. They did it again. It would be a bit hypocritical to expect a company that innovated so much in their first game to not to the same in their second.

So after reading the OP, the message I got was:

see this game as a joke, then there will be no more disappointments.

I… uh… hmm

Vayne.8563:

….Anet shakes things up. It’s what they do. They did it again. It would be a bit hypocritical to expect a company that innovated so much in their first game to not to the same in their second.

You’re difficult to take seriously after a post like that. Really. Guild Wars 2 is a very good game, but it is impossible to say that it innovates at the same level as GW1 did for its time. GW2 improves, it polishes, but it has little innovation. Nearly every key feature has been done elsewhere, either Warhammer Online and Rift with dynamic events or nearly every Facebook game since 2008 for two week content cycles. Guild Wars 1 stands out so much people argue about whether or not it’s even an MMO. Guild Wars 2? No question. It’s an MMO and does all the usual MMO things.

That and saying you play GW2 just like GW1… I mean… sigh

No, no you don’t. You don’t not because you lack some talent to do so, but because the gameplay mechanics are apples and oranges. Outside of the names of the ability, what do the two combat systems possibly have in common that lets you play them in a way that is any related than it would be for any other MMO with similarly themed abilities?

You are not doing ArenaNet or Guild Wars as a franchise favors by praising everything good or bad about the game. The only thing as useless as saying “this game sucks and they suck” is “this game is amazing and everything about it is amazing and they are amazing”.

Unleashed.6195:

Vayne.8563:

….Anet shakes things up. It’s what they do. They did it again. It would be a bit hypocritical to expect a company that innovated so much in their first game to not to the same in their second.

You’re difficult to take seriously after a post like that. Really. Guild Wars 2 is a very good game, but it is impossible to say that it innovates at the same level as GW1 did for its time. GW2 improves, it polishes, but it has little innovation. Nearly every key feature has been done elsewhere, either Warhammer Online and Rift with dynamic events or nearly every Facebook game since 2008 for two week content cycles. Guild Wars 1 stands out so much people argue about whether or not it’s even an MMO. Guild Wars 2? No question. It’s an MMO and does all the usual MMO things.

That and saying you play GW2 just like GW1… I mean… sigh

No, no you don’t. You don’t not because you lack some talent to do so, but because the gameplay mechanics are apples and oranges. Outside of the names of the ability, what do the two combat systems possibly have in common that lets you play them in a way that is any related than it would be for any other MMO with similarly themed abilities?

You are not doing ArenaNet or Guild Wars as a franchise favors by praising everything good or bad about the game. The only thing as useless as saying “this game sucks and they suck” is “this game is amazing and everything about it is amazing and they are amazing”.

I don’t praise everything Anet does. There are things I’ve complained about to, including not having enough build variety for certain professions. But that doesn’t mean I have to agree with you.

I spent a lot of time in Guild Wars 1 but I’ve also spent a lot of time in other MMOs, and let me tell you, Anet innovated HUGELY in Guild Wars 2. You might not see it, particularly if you played more Guild Wars 1 than other MMOs, but it’s there. The way the game is structured is a massive improvement (for some of us anyway) over the way most MMOs are made. That’s innovation. There’s a lot of it.

Saying you can’t take someone seriously because their opinion differs from yours doesn’t strengthen your arguments. It just makes you look like a Guild Wars 1 fan boy, in the same way I look like a Guild Wars 2 fan boy.

But I do complain when I see something worth complaining about. I don’t complain because this game is too different from what I’m used to.

There are points that OP made that I disagree with, but he’s dead on with the biggest point. GW2 is NOT GW1, nor any other MMO out there. When I started playing I started with a clean slate, no per-conceptions, no expectations. I’m glad, because it made me much happier with the game. Much of what I’ve seen has been complaining about “Why isn’t this in the game? Why isn’t that in the game? It’s in every other MMO I’ve played!” Well, this isn’t every other MMO you’ve played. It’s something else entirely. And I think that as soon as people open their minds and realize that they’ll see what a great game this is.

Vayne.8563:

I spent a lot of time in Guild Wars 1 but I’ve also spent a lot of time in other MMOs, and let me tell you, Anet innovated HUGELY in Guild Wars 2.

Where? Point to the major innovations. No trinity? Old as dirt and possibly hasn’t been good for the game (I’d argue it’s the core issue that has resulted in the zerk or go home group optimization). The trinity was the innovation over the old systems present in standard D&D ruleset games. MMOs created them, GW2 just walked back from it. You had characters that could heal, or were stronger defensively, but no trinity, just as with GW2.

Dynamic Events had been done, nearly identical implementations, by previous MMOs.

The innovations that remain are small things like Guild Missions.

I’ve played many other MMOs, some of them for years. Aion, Lineage 2, World of Warcraft, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, SWTOR etc. etc., normally either all classes at max level for each or at minimum a couple for the more grindy games. It’s not that I just don’t have the breadth of insight that you do, it’s that I don’t find flattery for the sake of flattery useful. There were flaws in GW1, but they deserved all the praise and success they earned for what they did right. They deserve the same for GW2, but it’s not in the department of innovation. It’s more cookie-cutter MMO than GW1 by a long shot. It fits just perfectly alongside every other MMO on the market, GW1 still stands out like a sore (but amazing) thumb.

Vayne.8563:

Saying you can’t take someone seriously because their opinion differs from yours doesn’t strengthen your arguments. It just makes you look like a Guild Wars 1 fan boy, in the same way I look like a Guild Wars 2 fan boy.

I say I can’t take you seriously not because you disagree, but because the statements you made are eye-roll worthy.

You don’t play GW2 just like you played GW1. No one does. They can’t. They’re not the same game and have almost no gameplay mechanics in common. You can’t look at the list of things that are unique about GW1 and the things that are unique about GW2 and say they’ve innovated equally.

Yes, I loved GW1. I also loved a majority of WoW’s existence. I played nearly as many hours of Diablo 2 as I did either. Team Fortress 2 I probably have a couple of thousand hours in. I’m a fan of amazing games. GW2 is another amazing game. My point is that it’s a different game. It’s not GW1 with a fresh coat of paint and quality of life improvements. It’s not GW1 for the modern world.

Unleashed.6195:

Vayne.8563:

I spent a lot of time in Guild Wars 1 but I’ve also spent a lot of time in other MMOs, and let me tell you, Anet innovated HUGELY in Guild Wars 2.

Where? Point to the major innovations. No trinity? Old as dirt and possibly hasn’t been good for the game (I’d argue it’s the core issue that has resulted in the zerk or go home group optimization). The trinity was the innovation over the old systems present in standard D&D ruleset games. MMOs created them, GW2 just walked back from it. You had characters that could heal, or were stronger defensively, but no trinity, just as with GW2.

Dynamic Events had been done, nearly identical implementations, by previous MMOs.

The innovations that remain are small things like Guild Missions.

I’ve played many other MMOs, some of them for years. Aion, Lineage 2, World of Warcraft, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, SWTOR etc. etc., normally either all classes at max level for each or at minimum a couple for the more grindy games. It’s not that I just don’t have the breadth of insight that you do, it’s that I don’t find flattery for the sake of flattery useful. There were flaws in GW1, but they deserved all the praise and success they earned for what they did right. They deserve the same for GW2, but it’s not in the department of innovation. It’s more cookie-cutter MMO than GW1 by a long shot. It fits just perfectly alongside every other MMO on the market, GW1 still stands out like a sore (but amazing) thumb.

Vayne.8563:

Saying you can’t take someone seriously because their opinion differs from yours doesn’t strengthen your arguments. It just makes you look like a Guild Wars 1 fan boy, in the same way I look like a Guild Wars 2 fan boy.

I say I can’t take you seriously not because you disagree, but because the statements you made are eye-roll worthy.

You don’t play GW2 just like you played GW1. No one does. They can’t. They’re not the same game and have almost no gameplay mechanics in common. You can’t look at the list of things that are unique about GW1 and the things that are unique about GW2 and say they’ve innovated equally.

Yes, I loved GW1. I also loved a majority of WoW’s existence. I played nearly as many hours of Diablo 2 as I did either. Team Fortress 2 I probably have a couple of thousand hours in. I’m a fan of amazing games. GW2 is another amazing game. My point is that it’s a different game. It’s not GW1 with a fresh coat of paint and quality of life improvements. It’s not GW1 for the modern world.

I may not agree with you 100% about how revolutionary GW1 was(I don’t think it set out to be different, but rather a Co-OP RPG that was “safer” than a subscription MMO and had a lower development budget), but you’re certainly very insightful. You’ve said some things better than I could have and I’ve played about the same spectrum of MMOs that you have.

Tachenon.5270:

Then it should not have been called Guild Wars 2.

if you use the same lore, but not use the name a lot of the people would most definitely be confused. It isn’t the first time a franchise has changed genre or direction you know.

Mirta.5029:

Tachenon.5270:

Then it should not have been called Guild Wars 2.

if you use the same lore, but not use the name a lot of the people would most definitely be confused. It isn’t the first time a franchise has changed genre or direction you know.

New game, new name, new lore. They could still have banked on the success of previous efforts. For example:

“From the award-winning team that brought you the chart-topping Organization Conflicts franchise… an all new, all different, all innovative gaming experience! You’ve heard the rumors. You’ve seen the teasers. Friends, we cannot keep this a secret any longer! Are you ready for…

“Invasion of the Dragon Minions from Inner Space!”

Master of Timespace.2548:

Unleashed.6195:

Rambodacious.7495:

I’m afraid a few, specific instances of “goofiness” do not, your point, make.

I can summon just as many “serious” things about GW2. Look at the personal story. People being murdered, loss of life everywhere, struggles to survive. It was not pokemon bubble bounce bumblekittenery.

Mufasa died in The Lion King. Scar nearly starved the entire Savannah after taking over. Zazu was imprisoned and threatened to be eaten. They had a leopard eat a baby in Tarzan. That doesn’t make either the diary of Anne Frank.

Indeed. That kind of stuff has nothing to do with something being “serious” or not. Take for example Starship Troopers xD

Absolutely amazing book, absolutely crappy movie.

Tachenon.5270:

New game, new name, new lore. They could still have banked on the success of previous efforts. For example:

“From the award-winning team that brought you the chart-topping Organization Conflicts franchise… an all new, all different, all innovative gaming experience! You’ve heard the rumors. You’ve seen the teasers. Friends, we cannot keep this a secret any longer! Are you ready for…

“Invasion of the Dragon Minions from Inner Space!”

except that perhaps they wanted to continue the story but change things around?

Unleashed.6195:

Vayne.8563:

I spent a lot of time in Guild Wars 1 but I’ve also spent a lot of time in other MMOs, and let me tell you, Anet innovated HUGELY in Guild Wars 2.

Where? Point to the major innovations. No trinity? Old as dirt and possibly hasn’t been good for the game (I’d argue it’s the core issue that has resulted in the zerk or go home group optimization). The trinity was the innovation over the old systems present in standard D&D ruleset games. MMOs created them, GW2 just walked back from it. You had characters that could heal, or were stronger defensively, but no trinity, just as with GW2.

Dynamic Events had been done, nearly identical implementations, by previous MMOs.

The innovations that remain are small things like Guild Missions.

I’ve played many other MMOs, some of them for years. Aion, Lineage 2, World of Warcraft, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, SWTOR etc. etc., normally either all classes at max level for each or at minimum a couple for the more grindy games. It’s not that I just don’t have the breadth of insight that you do, it’s that I don’t find flattery for the sake of flattery useful. There were flaws in GW1, but they deserved all the praise and success they earned for what they did right. They deserve the same for GW2, but it’s not in the department of innovation. It’s more cookie-cutter MMO than GW1 by a long shot. It fits just perfectly alongside every other MMO on the market, GW1 still stands out like a sore (but amazing) thumb.

Vayne.8563:

Saying you can’t take someone seriously because their opinion differs from yours doesn’t strengthen your arguments. It just makes you look like a Guild Wars 1 fan boy, in the same way I look like a Guild Wars 2 fan boy.

I say I can’t take you seriously not because you disagree, but because the statements you made are eye-roll worthy.

You don’t play GW2 just like you played GW1. No one does. They can’t. They’re not the same game and have almost no gameplay mechanics in common. You can’t look at the list of things that are unique about GW1 and the things that are unique about GW2 and say they’ve innovated equally.

Yes, I loved GW1. I also loved a majority of WoW’s existence. I played nearly as many hours of Diablo 2 as I did either. Team Fortress 2 I probably have a couple of thousand hours in. I’m a fan of amazing games. GW2 is another amazing game. My point is that it’s a different game. It’s not GW1 with a fresh coat of paint and quality of life improvements. It’s not GW1 for the modern world.

Since you don’t take me seriously, I cease to care about what you say, and have no reason to reply to any argument you make. You can do all the eye rolling you want now, for all I care.

Mirta.5029:

Tachenon.5270:

New game, new name, new lore. They could still have banked on the success of previous efforts. For example:

“From the award-winning team that brought you the chart-topping Organization Conflicts franchise… an all new, all different, all innovative gaming experience! You’ve heard the rumors. You’ve seen the teasers. Friends, we cannot keep this a secret any longer! Are you ready for…

“Invasion of the Dragon Minions from Inner Space!”

except that perhaps they wanted to continue the story but change things around?

You mean like how Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein continues the story of Universal Pictures’ version of the Frankenstein monster, but changes things around?

Its impossible to forget gw1 when i was playing it daily less than a year ago and that for 5 years. That plus its freaking GUILD WARS 2… Not Wii Fit 2 or Call of Duty 872: Extreme Warfare Edition but Guild Wars 2! The two should and always will be compared and since gw2 fails compared to it predecessor on all fronts, it should be compared to it even more often.

exactly lower your expectations
you want the game to entertain you WELL DON’T !
this game is not about fun ! it is about not having what the wrest have and feel jealous and wanting it ! then work hard and IF YOU ARE LUCKY you will get it if not don’t play the game !
when ppl understand that they pay for THE CHANCE of having fun (rng fun) then they will stop complaining (a nets dream)

Tachenon.5270:

You mean like how Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein continues the story of Universal Pictures’ version of the Frankenstein monster, but changes things around?

more like how Metal Gear Rising belongs to the same universe as Metal Gear, but changes things around.

Mirta.5029:

Tachenon.5270:

You mean like how Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein continues the story of Universal Pictures’ version of the Frankenstein monster, but changes things around?

more like how Metal Gear Rising belongs to the same universe as Metal Gear, but changes things around.

Even tho gameplay was 70% different (you still had stealth) you knew perfectly well that THIS IS MGS. You have no flying @&&$ idea wth you’re playing when it comes to gw2. Is it a zerg simulator? is it a gem store simulator? Mario wannabe? are we still in alpha/beta testing stage? I don’t know!!!