Guild Wars 2

Again, Vol… what is your sample size since the patch? With which data can you prove, that there hasn’t been a change?

Beorn Saxon.4762:

Danger Girl.5836:

Beorn Saxon.4762:

C H E C K
O U T
T H E S E
E C T O S

Since February, prices have been cut in half for ecto.

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/19721

What is your point?

lol.

Prices have been cut in half since rares were guaranteed from dragons. You guys are saying salvage rates were stealth nerfed to near half. Even if that is true, it sounds like all it would do would put them back to their normal prices of a few months ago.

At how cheap they are, you can run CoF for an hour and just buy 50 ecto from your earnings which is way more than you could ever get from salvaging an hours worth of earned CoF tokens.

I am having trouble understanding profits of CoF vs salvaging. Please explain your math.

Vol.5241:

To be fair, you’ll contribute a lot more if you did a video of 2000 salvages.

22 salvages is nothing. You can do another test and you can end up with anywhere from 5% to 80%.

It’s a binomial distribution, so n=22 is fine. Using normal approximation, 95% CI should be .45+/- .21 (from my test).

Use math, people.

Vol you are contributing nothing to figuring this out.
If YOU would like to do a 2000+ sample size then, by all means please try it.
Otherwise refrain from criticizing people who are constructively posting on this.
I did one of the initial 100 salvages and later made a video of me doing another 10. (admittedly the 10 was a small sample)
I will NOT be salvaging anything else as of now. MY RATES have been lowered. If you don’t believe me that that is your prerogative.

WaxWorm.8574:

Again, Vol… what is your sample size since the patch? With which data can you prove, that there hasn’t been a change?

You think having some (and possibly inaccurate data) is better than having no data at all? Ever considered the ‘dangers’ and inefficiencies from relying on a small sample size?

And also, if you’re going to contribute, it’s more helpful to actually include the math, rather than just basing things off of your feels on proper sample size.

Doomknight.7923:

Vol you are contributing nothing to figuring this out.
If YOU would like to do a 2000+ sample size then, by all means please try it.
Otherwise refrain from criticizing people who are constructively posting on this.
I did one of the initial 100 salvages and later made a video of me doing another 10. (admittedly the 10 was a small sample)
I will NOT be salvaging anything else as of now. MY RATES have been lowered. If you don’t believe me that that is your prerogative.

Actually I’m one of the few voices of reasons here. I’m not to keen on joining the circlejerk that just cause you have a lower ecto chance means Arenanet OBVIOUSLY kitten the rate.

Broadicea.8294:

And also, if you’re going to contribute, it’s more helpful to actually include the math, rather than just basing things off of your feels on proper sample size.

That’s nice, but I’m not a statiscian, nor do I have the desire to prove anyone wrong that ecto rates were nerfed.

Just telling people to use better judgment in their analysis.

Vol.5241:

Broadicea.8294:

And also, if you’re going to contribute, it’s more helpful to actually include the math, rather than just basing things off of your feels on proper sample size.

That’s nice, but I’m not a statiscian, nor do I have the desire to prove anyone wrong that ecto rates were nerfed.

Just telling people to use better judgment in their analysis.

That’s exactly what I’m saying, if you’re not providing or mathematically analyzing the data, you’re not really contributing one way or another. You can’t just look at a test and say “BAH TOO LOW SAMPLE SIZE” when you don’t understand the analysis being presented. As I stated, assuming normal distribution, my rate was 45% plus or minus about 21%. That means we can be very confident that the true result is between 24% and 66%. If I had a 100 samples, I’d get down to an error of +/- about 10. If I had a thousand samples, +/-3. But they’d still be zeroing in on about .5 ectos per salvage assuming that’s the true rate. That’s how the math works.

I apologize for being snippy but when actual numbers and statistical analysis are being presented, chants of SAMPLE SIZE!!!!! are extremely counterproductive.

150 Rares from TP
180 Ectos Salvaged (With BLSK)
0-3 Ectos salvaged, in fact seen several 3’s pop and 2’s like my old test.

Longest Streak of 1’s = 4 before hitting a 2 or 3. No strings similar to yesterday.
41 0’s
63 1’s
21 2’s
25 3’s

Total numbers (N): 150
Sum of numbers: 180.0
Mean (average) value: 1.2
Population standard deviation (?): 1.01980390272
Population variance (?2): 1.04
Sample standard deviation (s): 1.02322034077
Sample variance (s2): 1.04697986577

If it follows the normal distribution
The 68.3% measure confidence range, ? 0.1767796592269 – 2.2232203407731
The 90% measure confidence range, 1.645? -0.48319746057174 – 2.8831974605717
The 95% measure confidence range, 1.960? -0.80551186791527 – 3.2055118679153
The 99% measure confidence range, 2.576? -1.4358155978315 – 3.8358155978315
The 99.9% measure confidence range, 3.291? -2.1674181414843 – 4.5674181414843
The 99.99% measure confidence range, 3.891? -2.7813503459481 – 5.1813503459481
The 99.999% measure confidence range, 4.417? -3.3195642451948 – 5.7195642451948
The 99.9999% measure confidence range, 4.892? -3.805593907062 – 6.205593907062

ok i really don’t care if this bug is real or not anymore.
its up to every ones own discretion

but seriously stop the Hes a Troll/ Ignore the Troll comments.
people posted their actual experiences and just because they don’t match yours does not mean they are trolls.

Geotherma.2395:

MATH

Citizen_Kane_Applause.gif

Excellent work Geo. It seems that BLSKs are unchanged. Anet herding people towards the gem store?

@Doomknight: he/she doesn’t share any actual experience in salvaging ectos with us. That is the problem!

I’m guessing the ecto success rate from BLSKs are 75% with 60% of those being 1 ecto, 20% being 2 and 20% being 3 from looking at Geo’s numbers. So the Master’s/Mystic kits are either now or always have been at a 50% success rate, but have had the 2/3 returns squashed down to 0.

Broadicea.8294:

Geotherma.2395:

MATH

Citizen_Kane_Applause.gif

Excellent work Geo. It seems that BLSKs are unchanged. Anet herding people towards the gem store?

I’m not sure what happened really. I know that 40 salvages “should” produce at least one (2) or (3). The chances that through a string of 40 salvages with BLSK resulted in all 1’s and 0’s imo seems very slim. The game has been buggy for me and many people, the 40 test was yesterday. I logged off and went to bed, woke up started my computer and game. Then did the salvages from broker with NEW BLSK’s. If it was just me experiencing that huge difference I would probably not even be shaken. But the fact that many people experienced it seems very strange. Unless we are holding on to a theory that a stealth nerf occurred and then retracted (because we are very observant people) , then I would say the current rate seems ok. But this is just for TP and new salvage kits not dungeon token ones. It could very well be a glitch, a bug, or some insanely (and I mean that..) strange luck on the part of about 20+ people, myself included.

An official response of course would be great on the matter. One that states MSK/BLSK and other salvage kits have remained the same and that dungeon token salvaging hasn’t changed. As well as ectos themselves have not been changed, other than they have been added to wvw?/spvp? I didn’t see the exact info on the pvp stuff, I’m not a huge pvper so not sure.

Umm aren’t dungeon rares like level 70 or lower? It explains why you’re not getting more than 1 ecto…. I’m actually surprised you got any at all.

You got ~0.9 ectos from rares of lvl68+ using the master’s kit. So the dungeon-token-rares of lvl70 also yielded ectos at that rate. Until yesterday that is…

Just salvaged 500 rare and got 286 ectos…. Normally I get 440-470 out of them
It could be bad luck but if so many people had the same results it could have been changed by Anet or it is a bug

When posting salvage numbers, please state more information, especially the type of salvage kit you used. It still looks as though master kits are down.

WaxWorm.8574:

You got ~0.9 ectos from rares of lvl68+ using the master’s kit. So the dungeon-token-rares of lvl70 also yielded ectos at that rate. Until yesterday that is…

I’ve tried dungeons rares (using BLSK’s) and have always gotten next nothing…

i just got my post deleted for my comment on clarification. I did not say anything offensive or even controversial. i would just like CLARIFICATION.
is this happening or not Anet?

you can delete posts on this thread but not respond?

Broadicea.8294:

Anet herding people towards the gem store?

This, it’s ANet directing us towards the gem store, guaranteed.

Need some confirm on this. I too noticed a big different for a while but I keep telling myself it’s RNG. I’m not sure I’m right tho.

Need more info on dungeon rares with facts and figures. I would but I don’t do dungeons ^^ And that would be a ton of tokens.

“yes Waxworm that is true. But at the same time the people crying Troll aren’t helping in a constructive way either
Can we all just agree to disagree until this is definitively proven or dis-proven?
i just want a clarified answer if this is really happening and at what scale.”

quote of my deleted post
im still not sure how this is inflammatory. i just want to get a clear answer without the word “troll” or “conspiracy” flying around.
just a simple yes or no

With the missing patch notes about over 8 various things, a page full of bugs from the patch, deleted messages, and various reports of problems- this problem is going to get worse.. We could really use an official response by a dev to calm everyone and bring ectos back to their low cost. On top of that it would be great if the clarification thread could be addressed. Having things missing from patch and a ton of bugs does nothing to cull those who are already cautious and anxious over the situation. This recent patch hopefully can be enlightening to those who write the patch notes, as you can see what happens when things are not done to the best degree of quality and accuracy. Ectos at 21.25.

Sold 2250 COF Marks yesterday for 75 helms for salvage. Ended up with 68 Ectos.

I would be suprised if they would admit they changed it. As it would mean an admission to market manipulation for self profit. What else can you derive from reducing the ecto salvage rate from in game kits and keeping the gem store ones the same? Just because the products are intangiable, does not make it ok to water them down.

DaddyBoJangles.6012:

Sold 2250 COF Marks yesterday for 75 helms for salvage. Ended up with 68 Ectos.

Before or after the patch? Which kit was used?

Doomknight.7923:

i just got my post deleted for my comment on clarification. I did not say anything offensive or even controversial. i would just like CLARIFICATION.
is this happening or not Anet?

you can delete posts on this thread but not respond?

We’re trying to have a serious discussion here. Please refrain from off-topic posts such as yours which discuss forum moderation.

Here’s a prediction.

The answer will be that the master salvage kits were bugged from day one and should never have given more than 1 ecto to begin with. And this latest patch was the fix.
…sigh

Anet wins the day again. Blanket nerf to everything from Lyssa lootless mobs to Melandru spiderlings. Wonderful! To think I liked the chests from the daily rares.

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

Changes to important things like salvage rates would be listed in the update notes if they have changed. If it’s not in the update notes, then no changes have been made by the development team.

Remember “Final Rest”? I do. I think that something is fishy with ectos aswell. SO MANY people are randomly asking if any1 else is having problems with ectos atm – I don’t think it’S coincidence. For me the return rate is terrible as well. 21 rares 2 ectos so far and still counting.

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

Changes to important things like salvage rates would be listed in the update notes if they have changed. If it’s not in the update notes, then no changes have been made by the development team.

Then there’s still the chance of a bug, or an impending change that partially slipped into the patch by mistake.

It gets better and better. Now my post from some hours ago containing my salvaging-data got deleted “since it quotes a deleted one”.

So here again:

I salvaged 300 lvl80 rares from TP with master’s kits after the patch and got 156 ectos out of it which averages to 0.52. Before the patch I never had a single pack of 100 rares yielding less than 60 ectos and I literally salvaged several tens of thousands of rares over the past months with an average of 0.9 ectos per rare.

Also I think, since we now have an official statement, that it’s not intended to be like that, which leaves no other conclusion than it being a bug, we should move the discussion to the according thread in the bug-forum:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Possible-Ecto-Bug-5-28-13

Just did 50 Level 80 rare armor bought off the TP. 48 contained runes. None bought for more than 16s.

Using Master Salvage Kits.

Runes recovered: 38
T6 Salvage: 3
T5 Salvage: 94
Ectos: 27

No more than 1 ecto in any salvage. Chance of Ecto, 95% CI, 40-67%
Chance of Rune, 95% CI, 66-88%
Chance of T6, 95% CI, 2-16%

So T6 seems off but I don’t believe I ever saw anything near 25% before. Runes are pretty much spot on. Ectos, something seems off.

As I said, pre-patch I easily got at least 9 ectos out of every 10 rare salvage over a multiple 100 sample size. Made, for my standards, a nice bit of coin. I’m happy when I pull 60-80s out of 25 master kit salvages with bought rares. With an ecto return rate this low with master kits, that side business is done.

Final loss: 1.73g.

Sorry Regina but I don’t believe you. Salvaging rares for ecto yield almost always only 1 ecto. 2 per salvage are very rare and haven’t got 3 per salvage in months (I salvage every rare I get). I am okay with it since they are cheap, but don’t say someone haven’t done something with it…..

I can confirm the salvage rate using mystic and master kits. I’m getting the same results. I haven’t tested Black Lion kits; the cost of the kits greatly exceeds the return.

I’d just like to say that there have been mistakes which will lead players to questioning things like this. To name a few, Lost Shores, Drop Rate bug with kill credit, and various bugs that turned into huge exploits. I support GW2 and Arenanet, but when the question of credibility comes up again and again, a generalized statement directed at us may no longer be enough to cull the anxiety of your customers. If you add in overzealous moderation, and blank statements it only makes the problem worse. Ectos at 21.20

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

Changes to important things like salvage rates would be listed in the update notes if they have changed. If it’s not in the update notes, then no changes have been made by the development team.

too many players with too similiar results to be coincidence. something has clearly changed, devs need to acknowledge and investigate.

To be fair, a lot of people are screaming conspiracy theories and hate while the community team try to quell the outcry in an attempt to keep the riot down to a low murmurer. Not to shut you up, but to keep panic and mayhem low so things can be looked at/talked about rationally.

If there is a bug, then blasting them about it and calling them liars is not productive to the situation. Continue to post evidence and talk about it rationally and keep emotions controlled. Better for you and the community.

If you still think it is some sort of conspiracy theory of how the man is trying to keep you down, then I can’t help you.

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

Changes to important things like salvage rates would be listed in the update notes if they have changed. If it’s not in the update notes, then no changes have been made by the development team.

That seems carefully worded to not really address the concerns expressed in this thread.

Bugs creep in. Unintended consequences and code interactions happen. I’m simply suggesting that something is up and should be looked at rather than dismissed as WAI.

And I’m only talking master kits. BL kits seems to be working the same as before. It’s possible that the chance for 2 and 3 ectos with the master kit has been turned way down. I never looked at the distribution of 0 vs non-0, just the number I ended up with at the end relative to the number of items I salvaged. So the 0 vs non-0 may actually be the same, just chance on multiples significantly reduced.

I’m more lamenting my loss of an easy TP income source that I used to buy a 20 or so gems a day. In general with the loss of this, rares will be more difficult to sell because players like me were buying so many of them. Upside, prices on them should go down in an attempt to reduce any glut that happens. Also the supply of runes should go down as high volume daily salvaging stops. At least I haven’t been adding to the T5 cloth and leather glut, selling to a vendor instead.

Behellagh.1468:

Bugs creep in. Unintended consequences and code interactions happen. I’m simply suggesting that something is up and should be looked at rather than dismissed as WAI.

And I’m only talking master kits. BL kits seems to be working the same as before. It’s possible that the chance for 2 and 3 ectos with the master kit has been turned way down. I never looked at the distribution of 0 vs non-0, just the number I ended up with at the end relative to the number of items I salvaged. So the 0 vs non-0 may actually be the same, just chance on multiples significantly reduced.

I’m more lamenting my loss of an easy TP income source that I used to buy a 20 or so gems a day. In general with the loss of this, rares will be more difficult to sell because players like me were buying so many of them. Upside, prices on them should go down in an attempt to reduce any glut that happens. Also the supply of runes should go down as high volume daily salvaging stops. At least I haven’t been adding to the T5 cloth and leather glut, selling to a vendor instead.

Rares will go down or ecto price will rise until a equilibrium, rune’s will stay at the same volume most probably. Rare price will probably drop more then ectos increase in price, that is all under the assumption it’s not a bug what it most probably is.

Behellagh.1468:

Bugs creep in. Unintended consequences and code interactions happen. I’m simply suggesting that something is up and should be looked at rather than dismissed as WAI.

And I’m only talking master kits. BL kits seems to be working the same as before. It’s possible that the chance for 2 and 3 ectos with the master kit has been turned way down. I never looked at the distribution of 0 vs non-0, just the number I ended up with at the end relative to the number of items I salvaged. So the 0 vs non-0 may actually be the same, just chance on multiples significantly reduced.

I’m more lamenting my loss of an easy TP income source that I used to buy a 20 or so gems a day. In general with the loss of this, rares will be more difficult to sell because players like me were buying so many of them. Upside, prices on them should go down in an attempt to reduce any glut that happens. Also the supply of runes should go down as high volume daily salvaging stops. At least I haven’t been adding to the T5 cloth and leather glut, selling to a vendor instead.

IF it’s only Master’s Salvage Kits and not Bl Lion Kits that would be horrible.. and could lead to some (maybe even understandable) conspiracy theories. And yes, +1, ANet take a look at the code, the ecto rate seems to be off – lucky it’s not just me.

Thanks Regina.

So, nothing was changed ‘intentionally,’ but there might have been a bug introduced with other changes. Is this something one of the devs could look into for us? Since it seems a lot of people feel something is off. Just some type of confirmation that everything is working as intended would be great.

Torpian.9142:

I’m relatively new to the game and I might be wrong in saying this, but a friend of mine said she received more ecto by wearing lots of magic find gear and being in Southsun with the magic find bonus on her when she salvaged her gear. She was getting around 13 ecto for every 10 items she salvaged. Have you tried that?

Magic Find affects corpse-dropped-loot ONLY, and only at the time of death. Chests, Salvage, etc are not affected by MF.

Armor level 80 yellow salvaged with Master Salvage Kit
775 Armors
402 Ectoplasm
634 Rune
1120 Common Materials
99 Rare materials
Drop Rate Ectoplasm 51.87
In the past I had 89 % ration on ecto from rare

Seercull.1495:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

Changes to important things like salvage rates would be listed in the update notes if they have changed. If it’s not in the update notes, then no changes have been made by the development team.

Remember “Final Rest”? I do. I think that something is fishy with ectos aswell. SO MANY people are randomly asking if any1 else is having problems with ectos atm – I don’t think it’S coincidence. For me the return rate is terrible as well. 21 rares 2 ectos so far and still counting.

Final Rest is kind of a unique case. It was a miniscule chance from a bugged event, and they went and purposely buffed the chance after they also fixed the event.

As for the ecto change, I seem to hear someone say it’s been nerfed every patch.

See: City of Heroes and Accuracy Nerfs :p