Guild Wars 2

Never.8571:

Don’t know if I’m even adding anything, but since the last patch, I haven’t been able to get more than 1 Ecto out of a single rare even using Black Lion kits.

not sure if this is isolated to rares only, but i’ve salvaged exotics for ‘free’ ectos for awhile now, including the past few days and even this morning. using blsk’s, i haven’t seen a deviation from the norm. i’m still getting 2 and 3 ectos from exos in addition to the normal spread of 1’s and 0’s. for example, i received 7 ectos from 6 exotics this morning.

by no means do i salvage as heavily as some of you here, but i haven’t noticed a change in the past 8 months in regards to exotics. in regards to rares, i have no idea as i never salvage rares unless they are SB

Somebody willing to purchase some exos to see if there’s a difference between exos and rares? Don’t have that much gold right now

Iruwen.3164:

Somebody willing to purchase some exos to see if there’s a difference between exos and rares? Don’t have that much gold right now

if you have some blsk’s laying around, just do a quick margin calculation and front the cost for some exos. you’ll break even or make some back in addition to the free ecto and…for science!

Iruwen.3164:

If this is bugged then I’m really going to rage because I wasted BLKs which I actually paid real money for. But let’s see.

http://youtu.be/9vQqannyaNQ *fixed….

Eh… nope. Not cool.

We forgot to mention, this especially happens to mesmers as per our warrior egreements with Colin. jk

Seriously though, glad people are able to see more video proof. Even small samples can add up, I’ve still yet to see 10+ salvages with BLSK turn out to be all 0’s or 1’s. Definitely 5 could happen, maybe 8, 10 is really pushing it. 20-40 is just insane.

kiba.2768:

Iruwen.3164:

Somebody willing to purchase some exos to see if there’s a difference between exos and rares? Don’t have that much gold right now

if you have some blsk’s laying around, just do a quick margin calculation and front the cost for some exos. you’ll break even or make some back in addition to the free ecto and…for science!

This was already done in my post with about 100 (the rate of exotics salvaged and with BLKs), I won’t do more since its an awful lot of lost money. Posted results previously in this thread.

Just ran a new batch.

25, level 80 armors with runes using a Master Salvage Kit

Cost of rares and the MSK, 4g21s66c

Runes recovered: 22
T6 Salvage: 6
T5 Salvage: 36
Ectos: 11 – no 2 or 3

Probabilities with a 95% CI

Runes: 70-96%
T6: 12-44%
Ecto: 27-63%

So the same as what I was seeing before. Loss – 1g13s60c

Combining my two data sets. (previous one)

75, Level 80 rare armors (only 73 with runes)

Runes recovered: 60
T6 Salvage: 9
T5 Salvage: 130
Ectos: 38 – no 2 or 3

Probabilities with CI of 95%

Runes: 72-89%
T6 Salvage: 6-21%
Ectos: 40-62%

I really can’t afford to do this kind of testing again until we are officially told one way or another how things are. 3g loss is around 5% of my net worth.

ive used all my tokens from CoF that i didnt need 750+ and bought rare items from npc, around 25-30 rares and got only 10 ectos, i hope its only bug cos i never had such a bad chance in 9 months and i used black lion salvage kits that should have best drop chance

Now would be a great time to introduce surveys, and with them a nice BLSK 25 pack for everyone Just saying ^^

Behellagh.1468:

snip

Thank you for the actual contribution! Always nice to see the math.

To anyone else still thinking about testing, I think we have enough data showing (most likely) a .5 return rate. I wouldn’t throw away any more money just to prove the point, especially with John Smith most likely working diligently on it.

I would, however, still like to see BLSK results with exotics. XD

I salvaged something like 5-6 rares last night from meta-events with a Master kit and had one drop 3 ectos and another drop 2. In total I think I ended up with 8 ectos, so if other people aren’t able to get more than 1 per salvage ever its definitely not affecting everyone.

I wanted to make sure and it’s absolutely messed up with BLSK. 50 level 80 rares 31 ectos and only 1-2 ecto out of the whole stack. The numbers don’t lie, it’s for sure borked. I don’t have a you tube but here’s the twitch stream.

http://www.twitch.tv/munkiman4/b/410448566

BTW i get like 20% more ecto out of a salvage like that like clockwork, prior (over 1000 items that way easy). So i’d expect 56-60 ectos for that salvage.

Rama.6439:

Because it’s all economy and player related, when they hide stuff from us, they lose credibility, they lose trust that we place in them to tell us the truth, when this happens we also start to lose that feeling of family with the company that runs the game, no relationship without trust, no relationship, no players.

I agree fully with this. Undeclared changes do erode trust, and as pointed out in other threads ANet does have an issue with releasing undisclosed changes. This is a policy, or practice issue they really should address. No doubt.

Sovta.4719:

OK, fotm loot is heavy nerfed at 30+ and arenanet refuse to admit and EVERY single player i ask on 40+ runs says the same (someone said they apologised 1-2 months after nerf, not sure about this)
And for dyes they were droping like 10 an hour (at least for me) and this was fix after 3-4 days, loot nerf in fotm after 2-3 months still not fixed. Do you get it now or i need to draw it for you?

And if your point refers to the above, I agree completely.

However, the two examples you give really aren’t representative of the current situation.

Both dyes and FotM are drop loot based, ectos are a function of salvages. Assuming the same methodology is used for both is baseless. If it were the same we would have seen a similar decrease in loot drops across the board- not just in salvage results.

Next, you don’t give the context of the dye patch. Prior to the fix, there was a patch where there was obviously an unintended change that drastically upped the drop rate for dyes. Anyone around at the time was aware of the unusual frequency of drops. The fix was a corrective measure. Nothing nefarious about that, albeit, unfortunate for the players.

As to the FotM, it’s unfortunate there wasn’t the level of player monitoring taking place there as was being done with Ectos. If the kind of player provided data was available there, as provided here, I’m sure a better response would have been forthcoming.

Finally, given the attention this issue is receiving (credit to John Smith), I’ll go under the belief that the current situation is the result of something unintentional being released and not as obvious as the dye drop bug. We’ll ultimately see how this resolves.

New build in 2hrs … maybe …. just maybe…

Stone.6751:

I salvaged something like 5-6 rares last night from meta-events with a Master kit and had one drop 3 ectos and another drop 2. In total I think I ended up with 8 ectos, so if other people aren’t able to get more than 1 per salvage ever its definitely not affecting everyone.

Bugs usually do not affect everyone/everything equally. It’s one of the hardest parts of bug-hunting, if it simply doesn’t work at all then you know there’s a problem, the only hard part is finding it and often the fix is relatively simple.

But in a program as complicated as this, bugs can appear and disappear, or affect one player but not another. Add to this the fact that people exaggerate, have bad memories, and some of them outright lie about things that happen in the game. It’s not enough to say “this happened to me! Fix it!” The problem needs to be common enough that they receive a number of bug reports about it (“me too!s” on the forums don’t count, forum trolls will take advantage of the situation to cause trouble for their own amusement) or clear evidence that there is a problem needs to be presented.

Once the devs realize there actually is a bug, they have to find it. Often bugs don’t show up during testing or some factor is missing so that the devs cannot replicate the circumstances that lead to the bug appearing. Hard to find bugs, even game breaking ones, can persist for years, not because they don’t care about fixing the game, but because they CANNOT fix it if they can’t find it.

Which is probably why JS hasn’t responded with more info about the situation. If everyone were affected by a salvage bug, the rate of ectos entering the market would drop sharply, indicating a problem. This doesn’t seem to have happened, but there have probably been enough reputable reports on the forums and elsewhere that there is a bug, albeit an uncommon one. They may be having trouble replicating the situation that leads to the bug appearing, and until they find it they can’t fix it.

So instead of saying “there seems to be a problem but we don’t know what,” they continue testing and will set the situation right as soon as possible.

Perhaps there is multiple testing going on, and the recent quick updates were revisions to correct them. And then more research. Just a guess, I really don’t know.

• Fixed a salvaging bug introduced in the last patch that sometimes caused salvage kits to yield incorrect results.

IT WAS REAL.

Tinfoil hats for everyone! The conspiracy was founded! Colin, we demand rewards for this debunking!

Rising Dusk.2408:

IT WAS REAL.

Tinfoil hats for everyone! The conspiracy was founded! Colin, we demand rewards for this debunking!

Agreed, there is no better time than right now for tinfoil hats! :P

Im sure all those white knights are looking a little foolish right now.

WE WON!! GOOD JOB folks data gathering FTW

WE’VE GOT NEW BUILD SIGN!

/e flails about, jumps out the Exit To Desktop chute

Kimhyuna.1035:

Im sure all those white knights are looking a little foolish right now.

Actually those White Knights contributed in this post to help, well at least some of them.

Geotherma.2395:

• Fixed a salvaging bug introduced in the last patch that sometimes caused salvage kits to yield incorrect results.

They should say ecto rates or was it more than just ectos O.O

Thanks to ANet for fixing this.

And thanks to all the players that provided the data and videos needed to get this issue fixed. We are all in your debt for getting this fixed. Thanks!

Thread closed by moderator in 3…2…1…

CuRtoKy.8576:

Geotherma.2395:

• Fixed a salvaging bug introduced in the last patch that sometimes caused salvage kits to yield incorrect results.

They should say ecto rates or was it more than just ectos O.O

Hmm good point lol.

Also! What would really finish this thread off nicely is a post by John Smith summing it all up nicely. Free kits would be great, but yea, ya know :P

I think this is a great thread to show how real feedback (backed by real data) can be much more constructive than the usual “I FEEL that loot rates have been nerfed” threads that dominate the forums.

Seriously guys. If you feel like drop rates have been nerfed, RECORD YOUR FINDINGS. You’ll be a lot more convincing.

24 hour turnaround.
Who da man?

John Smith is da man!

Ursan.7846:

I think this is a great thread to show how real feedback (backed by real data) can be much more constructive than the usual “I FEEL that loot rates have been nerfed” threads that dominate the forums.

Seriously guys. If you feel like drop rates have been nerfed, RECORD YOUR FINDINGS. You’ll be a lot more convincing.

/agree

As long as you can afford to that is, don’t go blowing a months worth of gold people :P

Geotherma.2395:

Kimhyuna.1035:

Im sure all those white knights are looking a little foolish right now.

Actually those White Knights contributed in this post to help, well at least some of them.

And hopefully those who thought it was an NCSOFT conspiracy will feel a little foolish

Well done, now hopefully this will be put this to bed now it is resolved

Much thanks, Mr. Smith.

Yup, fixed. 25 salvages with master’s, 24 ectos with plenty of 2 and 3s back.

Thanks John, I’d love a summary of what you found and why you think it happened though!

I just don’t understand how it was accidentally changed.

I mean files on my computer don’t change themselves. I need to open them, delete a number, replace it with another number, close and save the document. How does a decrease in salvage rate accidentally happen to code?

Clark Skinner.4902:

I just don’t understand how it was accidentally changed.

I mean files on my computer don’t change themselves. I need to open them, delete a number, replace it with another number, close and save the document. How does a decrease in salvage rate accidentally happen to code?

When you put in a folder that shares files, those files can get written over. Not 100% if this applies the same way but it would make sense if it did.

Mourningcry.9428:

Much thanks, Mr. Smith.

He’s an agent… of good.

Now we all need to be infracted for posting a bug in general forum instead of bug forums. :P

But yay lol Thanks everyone for spending your time and gold on this, see you next nerf! jk :P /tinfoilhat

John Smith.4610:

As you guys see, we did identify and fix a bug. Thanks to everyone for your help identifying the issue and providing great data for me to start with in my research.

Cheers all,
good luck in the future.

TY John!

TY John. This thread can now be filed away in the used bit-bucket.

I’ll just leave this here
http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/19721

And apologies to all those accused of conspiracy?
lol glad this is fixed , just got 3 ectos from my second rare

COMPENSATION for all the lost BLKkits PLZZZ that was 20$ of gems i would like to at least get the kits back for

Thank you John.

Glad I wasn’t just some crazy market manipulator.

For those of us who just spend a whole month farming about 200 Gold together who invested a large portion of that money into buying rares to salvage as a way to make a bit of overnight profit who did calculations based on the 0.9 salvage rate per rare , who salvaged several hundreds of rares on the day this glitch got introduced into the game and lost a large amount of money because of this, can we expect a compensation of any sort?

I don’t want to sound like a jerk, but I do feel a bit jerked here because I really “worked” hard for that gold, even if we’re talking about a videogame here (And if anyone, Anet should be able to understand the emptyness in farming). I invested about 90% of the cash (It was less than 200 gold though) I had into buying loads of rares overnight to salvage them the next day. I didn’t exactly count how much I salvaged sinced the patch (I only calculate profit margins, not quantities), but I gues it would be anywhere between 500 and 800 rares the past 2-3 days.

I know I salvaged about 100 rares on the night of the update and then about 500 the first day. It was only after these initial rares I came to the conclusion something was fishy as I stopped “checking” to see wether or not I was getting enough ectos. I’ve been doing this for over a week now and the 0.9 ecto per salvage always seemed to come through, so I had no reason to ever think the game could screw me over. I salvaged a couple more today from random events aswell as buy orders which still weren’t fulfilled and I forgot to take off.

Doing safe calculations (I prefer to know the numbers) I lost anywhere between 300 and 400 ectos, potentially more depending on when the glitch exactly got introduced. That’s a 65-80 gold loss, or 2100-2700 gems (I don’t have enough money left to even check 80 gold in gems :P), or about 26-33 dollar, a more graspable number.

It feels really frustration to know I lost 30 dollar due to a stupid glitch, and I was wondering if any form of compensation would be possible?

Kind regards.

bug where a food ingredient was underpriced and you buy a lot of it? permaban!
bug where you lose gold because they made a mistake? sol.

@Rendier, I echo the sentiment – I salvaged quite a lot of rares yesterday, unaware of the issue. I was also one of the unlucky souls that completed the Southsun dungeon before the patch went live and thus went unrewarded for it. So that’s twice I’ve been screwed in this event.

Clark Skinner.4902:

I just don’t understand how it was accidentally changed.

I mean files on my computer don’t change themselves. I need to open them, delete a number, replace it with another number, close and save the document. How does a decrease in salvage rate accidentally happen to code?

game design is way more complicated then that, and changes to one thing can create changes to other, possibly even unrelated things.

No compensation for wasted salvages? (wasted kits + wasted rares)

I’m not too bothered about the kits. It does suck for the people who used BL Kits and I’ll obviously support them getting compensated aswell, but for me personally I used Master Kits so I didn’t really lose anything there. (Like 65 copper per salvage, but I still get the achievementpoints aswell as the other salvage items)

Well it’s not only the kits used. It’s a loss of about 50% in profit. When salvaging several hundreds that makes a lot of gold. Nonetheless it won’t be possible or at least way too complicated to individually compensate that, so let’s take it like (gentle)men. Whoever is able to salvage several hundreds or thousands per day should be able to regain that profit in short time

By the way, just to confirm:

1587 ectos / 1800 rares (~0.88) with master’s kit after the fix. Thanks, John!

Back to work… ^^