Guild Wars 2

Hello,

i’ve posted something similar to this in the german forums already but since the discussion there went absolutely nowhere and was over in a few posts, and since i feel this is an issue that needs to be adressed i’ll post it here again in hopes that it will do some good.

Since the update of April 15th, the big trait patch that also brought us the changes to critical damage, i noticed that, even more so then before, characters of level 80, or at least 10 levels above the range of an area, seem to be so powerful that you have to fear them actually.
This may sound strange, stupid even, to some but hear me out.

If you go into a lower area with a character that has his equipment on top of the line for his level you are more powerful, this is most noteable in the starter areas but it doesn’t stop there, it gets blurry about level 50 or 60 when most people have rare equipment already, but before that it’s a bit dicey.

I would love to see that the character scaling for when people go into a lower area gets a bit more severe, it shouldn’t be that veterans fall with kittens or less, and yes, i’ve seen this more than once.
The thing is, higher characters are more powerful than the ones in lower levels already, they have most of their skills, better equipment (having three stats instead of one or two really makes a difference) and of course, they have their traits and they don’t lose ’em when getting leveled down.

Still, this isn’t the only problem with the system, don’t get me wrong, i still like this game and this is why all of this concerns me so much.

The other problem is actually that many events scale extremely weird. Some scale pretty harsh, going up in difficulty or at least time investet with just four to five players near them, other’s don’t seem to change at all no matter how many players there are.
And of course, enemies. I would love to see at least the enemy scaling in events changed, putting a level or two on them if there are twenty+ players around an event isn’t really doing much.
Honestly i feel like veterans should be more frequent if you get to a certain amount of players, buffs should also play a bigger role.
I may sound downright crazy saying this but it would be nice if enemies, at least in events, get pushed into the holy trinity with healers, tanks and dd’s, at least, as said before, after a certain amount of players is reached.

Ulgoth’s pre-events would be a perfect example of how little the current eventscaling actually does while some events in Orr show how it can be done right, even if the later means that a lot of the time the standard build of “Deal damage without regard of your surroundings” gets pushed into the dirt face forward.
Actually…that’s what i would like to see more often because at it is there is little to no reason to play with others.
Sure, you run into events and see other players there but be honest: How often do you play with them, how often do you really see someone with more supportive skills instead of just signets or other equivalents of “ego”-skills.
At the moment you may not play against other players in PvE, but you don’t actually play with them either…

I would love to see that change.

Thank you for your time.

Normally i’m in lower level zones to harvest and not interestet to kill any mobs
besides maybe for the daily. So for me the scaling is fine it would be even better
if it was like in other MMOs where mobs are grey and not aggro anymore.

For events, i’d rather have Orr like Ulgoth (or how it was in the beginning) instead
of having more bags of gazillion HPs in all minor World Events that in the end give
3-5 Dragonite.

Beldin.5498:

Normally i’m in lower level zones to harvest and not interestet to kill any mobs
besides maybe for the daily. So for me the scaling is fine it would be even better
if it was like in other MMOs where mobs are grey and not aggro anymore.

For events, i’d rather have Orr like Ulgoth (or how it was in the beginning) instead
of having more bags of gazillion HPs in all minor World Events that in the end give
3-5 Dragonite.

See, this is actually the kind of answer i dreaded when making this post. From what i understand this game was made with equal opportunity in mind so…honestly, why should the dailies be more easy for you?

As it is now Level 80 characters can feel like god as soon as they go down the level range far enough and everybody else gets kicked in the ****.
So…yeah…nice that you like how it is.

I’m not sure what it is you want in low-level zones. If the mobs scale up to be a challenge for higher-level characters, what do the low-level characters do? Stand back and watch?

I don’t have any real problems playing high level characters in low level zones or level 80 zones. Nor do I have problems playing my weekly sub-level 10 characters in low level zones. It seems to be working okay for me, but that’s just me. Maybe I don’t understand what you are suggesting. =/

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I’m not sure what it is you want in low-level zones. If the mobs scale up to be a challenge for higher-level characters, what do the low-level characters do? Stand back and watch?

I don’t have any real problems playing high level characters in low level zones or level 80 zones. Nor do I have problems playing my weekly sub-level 10 characters in low level zones. It seems to be working okay for me, but that’s just me. Maybe I don’t understand what you are suggesting. =/

What i’m saying is that high level characters are too strong in lower areas. Go into a starter area with a level 80 character and kill something, then do the same with a character of the area level and tell me if you notice a difference.

And i’m not saying that the enemies should be über-strong or anything, but it would be nice if 80s had to work a bit too.
Let’s say, they get pushed down a bit in terms of power and at least a few veterans with AoE buffs are put into some events, would work out perfectly fine and bring people to a point where maybe you have to think a bit more about what skills you put into your bar.

Before it gets to that point.

I’m actually writing all this as someone who has every class at least once on Level 80, so this is not a kitten low level noob just trying to get attention.
This is about turning the game into something that everybody can enjoy on the same page, or at least trying to get there.

I do that often, as I key-farm. High-level characters have it a bit easier, it’s true, but buffing up the starter zones can’t bode well for those just starting.

I guess if some feel it’s a problem, they could always play in higher level zones, and leave the lower-level zones to those at the more appropriate level.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I do that often, as I key-farm. High-level characters have it a bit easier, it’s true, but buffing up the starter zones can’t bode well for those just starting.

I guess if some feel it’s a problem, they could always play in higher level zones, and leave the lower-level zones to those at the more appropriate level.

I really didn’t bring my point about clear did i?
I’m not just talking about buffing up a few events, which was all i suggested with a veteran here or there, i’m talking about 80s getting the hammer and put down in terms of power.
I play often with friends, some of them don’t have high level characters yet because they don’t have that much time to spent in the game.
If we only run around with 2 people, not to mention how it is when we are 3 or 4, i already can’t use half of my skillbar out of fear that he can’t get anything from events.
And i’m not even playing high damage builds, that’s not how this game should be.
Do you understand my point now?!

Threads like these pop every now and then. There are generally two types of people replying:

• People like OP who want monsters in low level areas buffed or high-level players nerfed, because otherwise they don’t have challenge and fun.

• People like me who want everything to stay as is because we enjoy character progression and want to kill weak monsters for poor rewards in low-level areas much faster, because otherwise we think it’s boring and not fun.

If I invested in leveling and gearing my character in ascended, I deserve return on investment in form of faster kills and easier dailies. Getting to 100% map completion was rather boring already on my fully geared lvl 80. I don’t want huge HP bags with stupid AI everywhere, doubly so if they drop 1 silver stuff.

If your problem lies in running with underlevel friends, than simply gear yourself with greens of that level or take off some armour. Sorry, but I don’t want to be involved in a global solution to someone’s own personal problem

LouWolfskin.3492:

Beldin.5498:

Normally i’m in lower level zones to harvest and not interestet to kill any mobs
besides maybe for the daily. So for me the scaling is fine it would be even better
if it was like in other MMOs where mobs are grey and not aggro anymore.

For events, i’d rather have Orr like Ulgoth (or how it was in the beginning) instead
of having more bags of gazillion HPs in all minor World Events that in the end give
3-5 Dragonite.

See, this is actually the kind of answer i dreaded when making this post. From what i understand this game was made with equal opportunity in mind so…honestly, why should the dailies be more easy for you?

As it is now Level 80 characters can feel like god as soon as they go down the level range far enough and everybody else gets kicked in the ****.
So…yeah…nice that you like how it is.

Where is the reason to have levels at all and even Exotic Gear and traits if a full exotic 80 is as weak as a level 5 character in grey gear against a lvl 5 mob ?

I could understand that maybe if Lvl 5 mobs would drop T6 mats for an 80, but since that is not the fact nobody farms low mobs with 80s to have a big advantage.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Threads like these pop every now and then. There are generally two types of people replying:

• People like OP who want monsters in low level areas buffed or high-level players nerfed, because otherwise they don’t have challenge and fun.

• People like me who want everything to stay as is because we enjoy character progression and want to kill weak monsters for poor rewards in low-level areas much faster, because otherwise we think it’s boring and not fun.

If I invested in leveling and gearing my character in ascended, I deserve return on investment in form of faster kills and easier dailies. Getting to 100% map completion was rather boring already on my fully geared lvl 80. I don’t want huge HP bags with stupid AI everywhere, doubly so if they drop 1 silver stuff.

If your problem lies in running with underlevel friends, than simply gear yourself with greens of that level or take off some armour. Sorry, but I don’t want to be involved in a global solution to someone’s own personal problem

The thing is, that’s not how A-Net promoted this game.
And as i said before, i don’t want HP-Bags or anything, i want them to involve more buffs here and there, or even give bigger events the holy trinity when it comes to enemy NPC’s.

But you know…your post brings up a really, really stupid question.
If you want an MMO in which you can go around with a high level character killing low levels left and right with a single swing of your weapon….why do you play a game in which you get downgraded in the first place?

P.S.: You don’t just get low level stuff in lower areas, you actually get, even if it is just a chance, items on your level as well for less work…which again, goes with the principle of equal opportunity so, if we go with “I’m level 80 i should be able to kill everything” we should remove that chance of high level items as well since you don’t want EQUAL opportunity it seems. Just saying.

Beldin.5498:

LouWolfskin.3492:

Beldin.5498:

Normally i’m in lower level zones to harvest and not interestet to kill any mobs
besides maybe for the daily. So for me the scaling is fine it would be even better
if it was like in other MMOs where mobs are grey and not aggro anymore.

For events, i’d rather have Orr like Ulgoth (or how it was in the beginning) instead
of having more bags of gazillion HPs in all minor World Events that in the end give
3-5 Dragonite.

See, this is actually the kind of answer i dreaded when making this post. From what i understand this game was made with equal opportunity in mind so…honestly, why should the dailies be more easy for you?

As it is now Level 80 characters can feel like god as soon as they go down the level range far enough and everybody else gets kicked in the ****.
So…yeah…nice that you like how it is.

Where is the reason to have levels at all and even Exotic Gear and traits if a full exotic 80 is as weak as a level 5 character in grey gear against a lvl 5 mob ?

I could understand that maybe if Lvl 5 mobs would drop T6 mats for an 80, but since that is not the fact nobody farms low mobs with 80s to have a big advantage.

And you’re still not on the same level as a level 5 character if you still have all your traits and skills, are you?
You are still on a higher powerlevel through those facts alone and would still kill them faster then anybody on Level 5 would.

And, as i pointed out in another post, you do get higher level items still. It is only a chance but it is there and for less work as it is.

So…after 3 hours the few people reacting to this post showed me how much of an error this was already.
I’ll just close the forum-page on my browser, ignore that i wrote this and get back to having fun instead of the same discussion with 3 people at once that, honestly, encapsule most of the community as it seems .
Thanks for showing me, again, that actually you people don’t want to play a game with innovation, but rather still WoW and the like…
It begs the question why you don’t play other games then…but that’s not my problem anymore.

Thanks again for your time people.

I know of at least one event in Plains of Ashford that nearly always has some crazy scaling due to lots of players nearby waiting to enter AC. It’s called “Break the morale of the harpies stealing the Durmand Priory’s supplies” and the waves of attacking harpies have raid strength due to as much players as a raid would have standing nearby. If one gets there with Level 10 (and it is a Level 10 event) there is no chance to survive even the first wave. Also as downscaled player this event is nearly not doable, a group is absolutely needed to complete it successfully. The scaling radius seems to be far too big and counts players that actually aren’t there to do the event.

I can’t speak for anybody else here but when i go to lower level zones i do feel kinda weird about participating in low level events. On the other hand I do enjoy the ability to quickly cleave my way through lonely mobs that are in the way of whatever reason I am there for and would hate to essentially have to re-struggle my way through zones i already completed.
Now I’m just spit balling here but maybe instead of punishing end game players for revisiting zones through harsher down leveling…we could instead reward lower level players in events that attract level 80s.

Here’s what I’m saying… Whenever an 80 participates in a low level event he gives out a buff to allies in that event. Something like a small increase to xp gained for all present or maybe all allies in the area get a small boost to THEIR stats instead.
Add to that event scaling like more veterans and having an 80 or two in a level 20 event won’t be viewed as an annoyance for people of that level range but instead as something to look forward to maybe?

LouWolfskin.3492:

So…after 3 hours the few people reacting to this post showed me how much of an error this was already.
I’ll just close the forum-page on my browser, ignore that i wrote this and get back to having fun instead of the same discussion with 3 people at once that, honestly, encapsule most of the community as it seems .
Thanks for showing me, again, that actually you people don’t want to play a game with innovation, but rather still WoW and the like…
It begs the question why you don’t play other games then…but that’s not my problem anymore.

Thanks again for your time people.

Id like to point out, the game used to have traits at much earlier levels. by level 40 you could max out a tree. So if I was say, a level 40 engi, and I wanted to farm events, id run turrets, events take place in a specific spot, and I would use my turrets to kill well in this spot. pre trait changes at level 40, I could MAX inventions, I could have a 1500 range rocket turret, that self heals, a 1500 range rifle that self heals, and more stats.

Due to capping of trait levels and much much much slower advancement, yeah lower level characters are weaker. you used to run grenades on engi to level, since at maxed out explosions it got a HUGEEEE buff, nades are weak without it. So now running nades is not even viable till 80. Cap. You dont get grandmaster traits till cap now. They need to rework when you get trait teir unlocks, cause honestly, Alot of the reason I play my alts is for their silly builds. I HATED my necro pre 80, I want jagged horrors, better minions, death nova! and all that fun stuff. As soon as I hit 80, I started having so much more fun.

So dont think its just cause of traits, lower level used to have them too. And honestly, you after around level 10 if you have a blue weapon, can prolly solo vetren bandit/cave troll/ all the other veterens. You wont 1 shot them like 80s, but you will be able to roll them.

edit @ harpie event, thats wrong, you can solo it as adownscaled. you just need buttloads of cleave and a blind. A theif/engi can solo it mega easy.

I think the OP has a point. I think they could revisit down-leveling. There are areas I’m definitely OP.

I’m not saying everything needs to be changed, but it certainly should be looked at. If nothing else, if high level characters kill stuff that fast, then what chance to low level characters have to even get credit for stuff?

LouWolfskin.3492:

Beldin.5498:

LouWolfskin.3492:

Beldin.5498:

Normally i’m in lower level zones to harvest and not interestet to kill any mobs
besides maybe for the daily. So for me the scaling is fine it would be even better
if it was like in other MMOs where mobs are grey and not aggro anymore.

For events, i’d rather have Orr like Ulgoth (or how it was in the beginning) instead
of having more bags of gazillion HPs in all minor World Events that in the end give
3-5 Dragonite.

See, this is actually the kind of answer i dreaded when making this post. From what i understand this game was made with equal opportunity in mind so…honestly, why should the dailies be more easy for you?

As it is now Level 80 characters can feel like god as soon as they go down the level range far enough and everybody else gets kicked in the ****.
So…yeah…nice that you like how it is.

Where is the reason to have levels at all and even Exotic Gear and traits if a full exotic 80 is as weak as a level 5 character in grey gear against a lvl 5 mob ?

I could understand that maybe if Lvl 5 mobs would drop T6 mats for an 80, but since that is not the fact nobody farms low mobs with 80s to have a big advantage.

And you’re still not on the same level as a level 5 character if you still have all your traits and skills, are you?
You are still on a higher powerlevel through those facts alone and would still kill them faster then anybody on Level 5 would.

And, as i pointed out in another post, you do get higher level items still. It is only a chance but it is there and for less work as it is.

You know that nobody farms mobs for blue / green crap ? Since even if they drop lvl 80 crap its still not worth much compared to crafting mats.

LouWolfskin.3492:

The thing is, that’s not how A-Net promoted this game.
And as i said before, i don’t want HP-Bags or anything, i want them to involve more buffs here and there, or even give bigger events the holy trinity when it comes to enemy NPC’s.

But you know…your post brings up a really, really stupid question.
If you want an MMO in which you can go around with a high level character killing low levels left and right with a single swing of your weapon….why do you play a game in which you get downgraded in the first place?

P.S.: You don’t just get low level stuff in lower areas, you actually get, even if it is just a chance, items on your level as well for less work…which again, goes with the principle of equal opportunity so, if we go with “I’m level 80 i should be able to kill everything” we should remove that chance of high level items as well since you don’t want EQUAL opportunity it seems. Just saying.

I’ve been saying that they should’ve tuned down that many lvl 80 items and champ bags from low-level zones since the announcement of megaservers; the particular post about it got merged into the Megathread, though.

As for 1-shotting… Sorry, but I’m not a warrior, I main a mesmer locked into Traveler’s runes, so it takes 2-3 hits and some build up time anyway;)

As far as rewards are concerned, you’re definitely exaggerating I like the place in which the scaling is; I still can’t kill weak things by looking at them, but the ones I 2-shot actually drop barbs and not vials of powerful blood. The reward for investing in leveling is not over the top, it is balanced (though I admit it was better before the mob nerf which came with ferocity change and the new awful trait system). I simply can’t get as much from killing centaurs during the Ulgoth chain even on a staff guardian than from an Orr temple event. Lvl 80 blue and green gear is not worth much and no one cares about it, yellow chances are adjusted already, and I definitely do not get tons of Heavy Moldy Bags full of T5 and T6 mats from lvl 10 mobs.

I believe the changes OP is proposing would make it slightly more awkward than what we have now. Right now, a lvl 80 full exotic player in a starter area is strong, but not a god. I’ve never seen high-level players taking all the credit for the events, to the point that low-levels cannot get rewarded at all.

I can totally understand where the OP comes from. Personally when I enter a lowbie area with any of my 80s I generally avoid mobs as they just impede my progress. If I get mobbed, I’ll just cut them down and keep going, which I believe is the main thrust of the original post. If anything, there should be a mechanic that when you enter a lowbie area as an 80 where the mobs actively avoid you as they would sense that you are more powerful than they are. Much like how some predators know not to tangle with other predators (lions and cheetahs come to mind, a cheetah will give up its kill to a lion as it knows the lion is far stronger.)

The exception to this rule would have to be event chains, like Ulgoth, where strictly speaking the mob spawns are vastly below the numbers they need to be given the numbers of players there. As an example, during the hold the zone part of the Ulgoth chain, a couple of dozen centaurs appear but are cleaved/AOE’d down in mere seconds.

In the end, this isn’t something that can be solved by just tweaking numbers. Monster AI and skill sets are just so lacking in depth that regardless of whether the mob numbers are buffed or their attacks are buffed it doesn’t change that mobs are stupid.

Azrael.4960:

I can totally understand where the OP comes from. Personally when I enter a lowbie area with any of my 80s I generally avoid mobs as they just impede my progress. If I get mobbed, I’ll just cut them down and keep going, which I believe is the main thrust of the original post. If anything, there should be a mechanic that when you enter a lowbie area as an 80 where the mobs actively avoid you as they would sense that you are more powerful than they are.

I don’t think thats what the OP wants .. he wants that every stupid lvl 5 mob is a “real challenge” for even a full ascended 80 and that you die every 5 minutes in Queensdale.

If low mobs would avoid me i would be happy about that, because i could harvest even faster then. However that would make you maybe even more overpowered in the view of the OP.

Actually, I agree with the OP to some extent. I don’t think 80s should be scaled down to have the same exact stats as a low level, but was anyone not here pre-April Feature Pack? The scaling WAS more severe back then, and mobs were slightly stronger. We still killed things fast on 80s, but we weren’t oneshotting every mob below 50.

Go try to map complete a low level zone with a low level friend, or another 80. It’s ridiculous now. When you oneshot everything, they can’t get tags, so you have to wait for them to get a few hits in to hit any mob. If it’s another 80 you’re mapping with, you both oneshot everything, so you can’t get credit for the same mobs. And if you’re doing an event and you want to be greedy, you can oneshot every mob in the event, preventing lower levels from actually tagging much of anything.

You used to be able to help lower level friends, or friends on lower level alts. Now it’s very difficult to, and there are often certain people who are inconsiderate and oneshot every mob in sight without letting anyone else in the area tag anything. Personally, I don’t hit a mob until I see a lower level tag it, but it still feels cheap to oneshot things.

They re-did the scaling and mob health because of the trait system change, but they went way too far with it. It does need to be revised.

storiessave.3807:

The scaling WAS more severe back then, and mobs were slightly stronger. We still killed things fast on 80s, but we weren’t oneshotting every mob below 50.

Wow .. that people always have to exaggerate so hard. The only way to oneshot lvl 49 mobs is when you say 100 blades is a oneshot

Mostly it are maybe mobs below level 10 that may be onshotted now and then but then even a warrior or guardian on that level with a greatsword kills them with 2 hits.

Beldin.5498:

storiessave.3807:

The scaling WAS more severe back then, and mobs were slightly stronger. We still killed things fast on 80s, but we weren’t oneshotting every mob below 50.

Wow .. that people always have to exaggerate so hard. The only way to oneshot lvl 49 mobs is when you say 100 blades is a oneshot

Mostly it are maybe mobs below level 10 that may be onshotted now and then but then even a warrior or guardian on that level with a greatsword kills them with 2 hits.

You can oneshot mobs a lot higher than level 10 in full zerker.

Couldn’t even use phantasms while map completing the lower level zones on my mesmer (no, not just talking about starter zones), since they’d oneshot everything.

Even at the levels when you stop oneshotting things, you kill things in 2 seconds flat, while it takes a player of that level 10-15 seconds at the very least to kill the same mob. The scaling doesn’t start to even out until 50-60, when you start to kill things slower.

So no, not an exaggeration. The difference is extreme compared to how it used to be. It’s not as bad on some classes with slower attacks – people can often get tags in before an ele can get off a fire auto, for example – but on a thief or necro that has incredibly high single-target damage (sword or dagger thief, dagger necro), good luck tagging things before they die.

storiessave.3807:

Beldin.5498:

storiessave.3807:

The scaling WAS more severe back then, and mobs were slightly stronger. We still killed things fast on 80s, but we weren’t oneshotting every mob below 50.

Wow .. that people always have to exaggerate so hard. The only way to oneshot lvl 49 mobs is when you say 100 blades is a oneshot

Mostly it are maybe mobs below level 10 that may be onshotted now and then but then even a warrior or guardian on that level with a greatsword kills them with 2 hits.

You can oneshot mobs a lot higher than level 10 in full zerker.

I have axe-warriors in nearly full zerker, some knights armor, and they are far away from one-shotting a Dredge or Jotun in Dredgehaunt cliffs.

And the difference in numbers of my build to full zerker is 10% less damage .. i did the math .. so don’t tell me each single piece of zerker magically doubles or tripples you damage.

Of course the question is still about what skills we talk. If my Ele has max might stacks then sometimes a critical Dragontooth may be enough. How ever i though more about auto-attacks. And that is normally maybe 4-6 hits with axe warrior or great-sword guardian.

I enjoy two shotting critters with my level 80 in a level 10 zone, it at least makes me feel powerful and heroic than outnumbered and outclassed.

As for event scaling. There seems to be a bump where the time required to complete the event increases dramatically with 5 or 6 compared to 2 or 3 only to drop back down once the number of players is greater than 10. The “dirty mole rats” in Diessa comes to mind. Total number scales to players present but it takes a certain number of players to increase the spawn rate thus slowing the event down.