Guild Wars 2

Greetings to all!

I hope it does not sound that negative, because i dont plan to make a post of concetrated hate and moaning.
I just personally wanted to point out my personal opinion abaut current classes and there combat system.
Whitch is getting stronger and stronger each passign day.

My problem is? Lets agree its not only my. But it is :
The game ends for me at character select alredy.

I been waiting 5 years for this game, i loved gw1 totally. I waited for the day, i can destroy my foes in GvG representing my guild as a Necromancer. And when the day came to play, i had mixed feelings.
-The combat system was a fun thing. It has awesome animations. And it is good to see the devs try to reach towards reality with the Weapon->skill system.
-Trough it limited the personal costumization of combat, and combat roles.
-All classes felt : auto attack win. Or fancy it with stuff, but still win. Ends the same way. Even in combat where you have to dodge, heal, switch weapons, combo teamwork, the game still feels like : all i do is spamm dmg skills at the enemy and auto attack when i have skill cooldowns.
-There are rare cases where you actually have to watch what you are dooing, but still most of the combats are standing from : trying to survive and deal dmg meantime.
-And exacly because of those resons, characters can not take up any role in combat, they feel 1 dimensional. Even as support or cc er you are dooing the same actually.
The game system wont let characters fill roles, because it was designed for dps only. When the devs wanted to do exacly the opposite. That all can fill all roles…and not none. Even if you go support. Thats the reson many feel suport underpowerred currently (the only viable is guardian, and a few builds)

And all that in the first week of gameplay.

But enough of that. After 80 i still felt :
My second problem was, i could not pick a class. None of them felt fitting to me. I loved Necromancer class since i was 10 like 16 years ago. In every Rpg, mmo i played Necromancer if i could. (it was quite rare)
But after like lv 20 i realized, this is terrible. Its not even a necromancer. What are those undead bunny like things and that skeletal cocroach? I dont plan on planting rune mines! I am not a kitten Rune priest from Warhammer! I am not some freeking cultits to stab ppl with a knife. And for Grents name why is a pure caster redesigned to a mid-close ranged skirmisher? And still has light armor-_- ?
I was so terrified i rerolled instantly.

And since then i keep rerolling. Every class i play has so many “parts” i dont like. And cant be fixed by anything. Most of the game would need a full redesign to have classes i would like to play.

Ranger is ultimately boring. It basically can do anything, but nothing good. Pets are fun to tame, but are half useless.
I would love to use a rifle ranger, and feel like some Eldar Pathfinder. But they cant use it. They cant even dual sword, like the most fameous ranger Drizzt can. Quite disspaointing.

Thief is decent. Curently i play it, but it can becaome ultimately boring to. It lacks support besides aoe stealth that gives minor regen. Or blind..if anyone decent rpg player would call that support -_-
Its weapon selection is fitting, trough i still find long range direct damage lacking. Like a longbow for single target, or a rifle.
But i must also make a note : the most of the Thief gameplay is auto attack.
So owerall decent, but if you want to teamplay, it will lack a lot! (i didnt roll a class to only blast finisher with shortbow in dungeons)

Unfortunately I have to agree with you.
I consider myself to be one of the biggest fans of the GW-franchise any developer could possibly want. But I stopped to play 1 month ago.
Why?
Because there is just NO customization in this game. The game mechanics are WAY!!! too simple, attributes and traits are too weak.

Anet wanted every character to do whatever they wanted to do
But in the end, every character is doomed to play a non existing role.

PS: Just read the profession-forums:
“Here is my tanky, DPS and support build” – What the hell?
PPS: I am extremely disappointed about the fact that Anet forbids me to choose skills 1-5. I am disappointed.

DIVA

Warrior arre maybe the best class ingame, and the gaming community does feel it to. No wonder the 70% of servers are warrior. No way i play another, and feel like a clone. No thy.
Besides, the gamplay with them (even if you are full support or “tank”) feels like, all you do is spam dmg skills. Quite boring to. Unless you hammer ppl in pvp.

I might say Mesmer is a decent class to, but basically it so mixed, noone really cares to play it. It is melee, but also light armor. It is also caster, but lacks most of the direct damage on long range. Clones are op but meantime useless, when try to run araund cliffs and try to climb them to explode on the alredy dead mobs or players. The class feels indepth because almost everything synergizes with everything, but also lacks the depth of bacground. In gw1 it was so artistic and elegant…here its so …meh.

Engineer. The only class i had mixed feelings for. It was a decent idea, but i mostly imagined it with a lot high tech stuff. Like the pictures from cronomancer. Controlling sniper drones. Or turrents like tarantula turrets. Not some gizmo like whirling horns breathing fire. Not to mention the only 3 weapons???? Ok kits and what? Kits cant be obtained, no new skins, no stats? No fun to earn them from instances or pvp….totally pointless to have a weapon that is s a skill…unless yo uareldy have plenty of weapons to pick from. Basically other classes can earn like 4-5 awesome looking weapons skins for 5-6 weapons…and engineer can only get a 3. And will propably not use even 1.
Not to mention, the 50% of the cummunity hates the way rifles act as a shotgun. (propably) And that a supposed to be long range class is mid close range.

And so on. I dont want to drag this to long, so in summary.
I think classes are way to walled in. They feel like set-in, instead of aur own character.
They can barely be modified to aur taste or combat style. There are no real roles, i would call stand alone roles. (You might be a support, but you still will be a simple dps er, like anyone else is). If you dont like a skills you cant change it for weapons.
If you want to be a silent arrow in the neck assasin, you cant be, because thief is a thief. And has the skills we gave them.
If you want to be a minion master you cant be, because we designed the game so….

In the end. The game ends before i even start it. At character select. Because i realize…i dont want any of this..i want my own…And so i am on the endge of stop playing.
No offense, i know noone cares. Trough i bought 2 additional copyes for my friends to play with….they alredy quit. I bought gems like 3 times wort the game…
It wont matter, if its free. If ppl wont be motivated to return….I eagerly wait the jan -feb patches….its the fence. Brake or Make -_- well sead.

“Anet wanted every character to do whatever they wanted to do
But in the end, every character is doomed to play a non existing role.”

Well sead…you could say it a lot shorter then i could.

I know what you mean. The classes feel very stale and boring.

Ranger
I can’t get this class beyond lvl 10. My brain literally shuts off from how boring it is. I think the reason is due to lack of combos. There are no creative ways to use skills and no interesting mechanics.

Thief
The stealth ability added a cool element to gameplay but, it got old fast. I got this class to lvl 40 before it got so boring that all I was doing was stealth and autoattack.

Warrior
I got it to lvl 20 before getting bored. This class is almost the same as a Ranger except more boring. It feels powerful but there are few utilities that makes gameplay interesting. Most of the Warriors attacks are automated. It feels like flying a plane on autopilot.

Engineer
I can’t play this class due to serveral reasons. It breaks immersion. I feel that engineers are completely out of place in this game. Thier back packs are esthetically ugly and gives me the impression that my character is a hitchhiker. They have gadets that are weird overall and make no sense.

Mesmer
The combat mechanics of this class are unrewarding in so many ways. Confusion. I deal damage when my target attacks. What? The clones and utilities are cool but this class has no mobility and feels slow. Very slow.

Guardian
More utilities than Warrior but, still boring. No combo system. It’s just some cool utilities and fancy auto attacks like the warrior.

Necromancer
This class is beyond boring. Condition damage is very weak. No burst damage. No fancy utilities and no mobility. What you have here is a class that deals damage slowly and has a lot of health. You’re basically a tree.

Elementalist
This is the only class I play because it’s the only class that I can play. It keeps me awake. Every other class makes me fall asleep at the wheel. Literally fall asleep. This class has combos, mobility, condition removal, burst damage. It has it all. The attunment swap system give you 20 abilities to juggle which is double what other classes have.

If you havent played to at least lvl 40-50 you dont know the potential of each class.
Most classes open up tremendously with more abilities and skills at your disposal.

I do agree that some professions seem to be very stale and boring, but you can change things around with different weapons and skills all the time.
I think a way to save different setups and being able to switch them in between fights would open up the system quite a bit.

Another thing that i would strongly suggest is to reduce cooldown across the board on abilities (pve only).
Finally divide PVE from PVP content and make the combat system more interesting.
I have so many skills i never use, not because they arent good, but the cooldown is just not worth it.
Would love to be able to switch skills on cooldown too, timer could stay the same, but please let me at least change them

There was Guild Wars.

There is Guild Wars 2.

Different games. Get over it!

If you don’t like the game quit it but stop coming here to whine.
It’s pitiful to read inanities like “Mesmer has no mobility” “Auto attack wins”

But the worst is " but still most of the combats are standing from trying to survive and deal dmg meantime.". Seriously? What is a MMO all about?

You don’t like GW2: fine. You prefer GW1: also fine. But what’s your point by posting such non sense? That a dev comes by and says “Oh we are so sorry. We’re gonna change all the game just for you!”

@Calae.1738: Reading your post only leads me to one conclussion, you dont have a clue how many of those classes work.

Both the comments about memser and guardian aswell as the one about necros are just very much off the mark. Then regarding Engineer its a taste thing, afterall its a steampunk fantasy setting, so how do they not fit in?

No combos on guardians? What, what, what? There are plenty of self executable combos/fields on their weapons, GS alone has 4, 5 if you open up with a staff. Add traits on that and you have an even bigger system for combos, not fields and such, but actual devastating combos.

Condition damage weak? Uhm, no, since a necro can stack them very quick in high stacks. They also have very high survivability, debuffs and condition removals.

Mesmers have the easiest burst in game and still keep very high survivabilty. Critting your enemy for around 18k-20k in a few seconds is pretty sick. It requires the right gear and trait setup. Confusion is not the way to go if you wanna kill things. Get a GS and a staff, very high damage from both phantasms and your shatters. iZerker crits for around 6k, iWarlock 6-7k depnding on condition on target, add 20-25%% to both those if you open with your 20-25% vulnerability stack, 3-3.5k shatter crits. Thats alot of damage in a matter of seconds. My iWarlock got off a few 13k crits yesterday in one fractal, had some nice might stacks and such, was a fun group.

Its fun as a mesmer when you have 3 illusions out and the thief uses shadow refuge, mind wreck on the spot where he stealthed and he turns up downed when stealth breaks.

I read so many inaccuracies in the OPs post that I fell off my chair laughing. Like Animando says, it’s fine if you don’t like the game but please, when you make an analysis, try to be a bit more correct and on topic. Stating things like ‘Auto-attack equals win’ or ‘70% of the classes on a server are warriors’ makes you look somewhat foolish.

In addition, like RudeDude indeed states so correctly, if you don’t play a class to a higher level you can never truly appreciate what it has to offer.

I think you need to give the game more time. GW2 is not like GW1 and I think that is a good thing. I am a huge fan of the Franchise (played GW1 for 7 years) and I am glad that the game went in this direction. I think that if you give the game a chance you would too. Take it for what it is and don’t try to make it what it is not. The only thing that GW2 shares with GW1 is the lore and it should stay that way! (IMO)

I have all classes as my char. I got my war, mes, ele, necro, thief, ranger to level 80. Now, left my eng and guardian still going up the levels.

And you know what? All plays rather differently. Not as stale as the OP or some other posters here mentioned. I roll and ele first and it was quite the experiences leveling it. And probably the most fun of all my chars. My warrior was the most boring of them all. Leap into battle and just hack away. My mesmer, I just scores of clones at the enemy that I didn’t even know it was dead until the prompt saying I need an enemy to use the skill came up. It was the second char that I like to play apart from my ele….. And for your information, I played my ele on fire attunement only from the beginning until someone pointed out to me that I need to switch between attunements…… that was when the ele gets even more fun….

So, if you want fun, play an ele and try to avoid getting one-shotted most of the time playing a full glass cannon build. heheheh…

SneakyErvin.3056:

@Calae.1738: Reading your post only leads me to one conclussion, you dont have a clue how many of those classes work.

Both the comments about memser and guardian aswell as the one about necros are just very much off the mark. Then regarding Engineer its a taste thing, afterall its a steampunk fantasy setting, so how do they not fit in?

No combos on guardians? What, what, what? There are plenty of self executable combos/fields on their weapons, GS alone has 4, 5 if you open up with a staff. Add traits on that and you have an even bigger system for combos, not fields and such, but actual devastating combos.

Condition damage weak? Uhm, no, since a necro can stack them very quick in high stacks. They also have very high survivability, debuffs and condition removals.

Mesmers have the easiest burst in game and still keep very high survivabilty. Critting your enemy for around 18k-20k in a few seconds is pretty sick. It requires the right gear and trait setup. Confusion is not the way to go if you wanna kill things. Get a GS and a staff, very high damage from both phantasms and your shatters. iZerker crits for around 6k, iWarlock 6-7k depnding on condition on target, add 20-25%% to both those if you open with your 20-25% vulnerability stack, 3-3.5k shatter crits. Thats alot of damage in a matter of seconds. My iWarlock got off a few 13k crits yesterday in one fractal, had some nice might stacks and such, was a fun group.

Its fun as a mesmer when you have 3 illusions out and the thief uses shadow refuge, mind wreck on the spot where he stealthed and he turns up downed when stealth breaks.

I’ve tried them all in SPVP. Far too simple and get bored really fast. My brain literally shuts off. I find that there is nothing innovative about thier skills and utilities. There is no skill for me to master. No timing, no careful positioning, no complex combo to execute and setup.

It’s all just… press this button and this happens…. press that button and that happens.

Double Dagger elementalist is literally the only thing that is keeping me playing this game.

“If you don’t like the game quit it but stop coming here to whine.
It’s pitiful to read inanities like “Mesmer has no mobility” “Auto attack wins”

Seriously you need to take that atittitude back fast.
The first thing i sead was, its not a whine topic. If you cant realize its a buildfull feedback for discussion, then its YOU who has no palce here. You are not trying to improve the game at all, so all can enjoy it.

Besides, there is a BIG differeance between : be able to sidestep or roll back (not with dodge) like a thief, and using blink or portal entry. And sword skill cant even be compared to a thief dodge -_-

Second of all, ppl here complain : you have no clue and you didnt get xy to xy…How you know?
I have an lv 80 mesmer in full cof gear. And i did use almost all his builds, and pvp ed to rank 45 as thief. Please try not to tell me what and who i am?
I do know builds, actually even more thne most somethimes. Maybe thats exacly why i find them, as i described. Not exacly boring, but more like plain, and unchangable. Non flexible.

Yes, you can variate “how you play the game” but its minimal, and TOTALLY wont reflect in actually comb that moch.
As Calae perfectly describes : the game will feel extremely boring, when you just play it….and thats exacly how you should play it….by playing it…General gameplay is gameplay. And if its extremely boring, having a decent variety in pve dungeons or hardcore content, wont help it a lot. -_-
Exspecially since most players will see general content in the 90% of there game time. and will quit before even get to variety.

Gord, i agree with you : “I think you need to give the game more time. GW2 is not like GW1 and I think that is a good thing.”
But how moch more time I alredy feel wasted like time sicne beta. I dont think the game is for me, if i still could not pick a class i really want to play. It keeps feeling, like : i must force the game on myself.
Trough i do agree, the game is going to, not only a good, but perfect direction…but it still as a long way to go.

Anyhow, i am still eager to see more opinions, and thouts. Just rememmbr, no calling out and theorizing.

At first the game does feel like you said. The various nuances of each class and game mechanics only come to light after extensive play beyond your entry level dungeons, wvw, and scrim pvp.

I don’t get it when people say that this game is auto attack ftw. I am playing my 4th char now (guardian) and ONLY now can I see it as a viable option and a bit of a rest from spamming a ton of other skills on my other 3 classes. My 1st three were Engi, Ranger and then Ele. You pretty much have to spam skills on those class for most situations or decent kill times.

Also what is this talk that ranger pets are useless? On my ranger my pet does more damage than I do. Fill out the pet trait and you can solo pretty much all vets with a cat pet. They are very quick at taking down enemies and as I said if you fill out the pet trait bar they can tank vets. If you are running mainly with a bear then yes you will think pets are weak. :P

Now I agree somewhat with the Character Roles situation. As I said I am now rolling a guardian, even full defence I still can’t solo most champs. So I doubt any TRUE tanks exist in this game. Support healing is even somewhat on the low side that I have noticed. I LOVED going support on my engi with the elixir gun but they have nerfed that into oblivion so much that it’s not worth it. The aoe heal is something like 12 hp heals at lvl 80 every second for like 10 seconds. Wtf seriously good is that? Only good elixir gun is for healing now is the Fkey but I’m sure they will nerf that soon too…

Oh another problem I find with being support class is the way it is done. Most heals for healing others now involves you casting an area effect or being near the person. Not good since people are dodging all the time in boss fights so that is also a hinderance. Gone are the days of GW 1 where you could tartget a party member by clicking their name from the party list and casting a direct heal spell. Seems like Anet really went full out to remove healing others being an easy task. Not only do you heal for small amounts but it is also dang hard to do so in the heat of battle.

Morthur.3894:

Sadly I have to agree with the class-design. I would take the classic old tank/heal/dps/support design over GW2’s non-existent role-system any day.

So much truth here. Everyone is DPS different levels of DPS to be sure, Some are more survivable DPS, Some have more mitigation, some have better recovery. But in the end we are all DPS. And DPS is nearly all that matters. Look at exceptional teams running the upper fractals, even the upper dungeons. Most people are wearing pure zerker or main zerker with a little mix in here and there. Why? because damage is all that matters, deal as much damage as is possible while keeping yourself alive. That is the name of the game and with good groups and players that know their class and understand that we all have that roll, you can clear content easily, quickly and more effectively than people trying to fit into a support or control (healer/tank) role.

I cant help but feel that at least that is similar to GW. I still feel like I spend most of my PvE farming time with NPCs then again… even my heroes used to heal, support, and assist me. In this game we are everyman for himself and that’s the best strategy. Its funny because people cite party boons as “support” and party play… But I cant get behind that, Every boon / condition I toss out I would toss out if I was solo or in a party anyways. the fact that there is someone nearby weather player or NPC is completely incidental, and so it is with my party. When the Guardian is clearing conditions from himself and I happen to be in range and lose a poison condition I don’t even think anything of it. Just like he doesn’t think anything of it when I inadvertently clear his conditions.

That’s why all these “soloing” videos are popular and people are constantly trying to solo something new. Because we don’t need each other in combat. we are all 100% self sufficient the only benefit we give each other is additional targets for the mobs to spread damage over. The most another player can do for you is get you up when you are dead…

“On my ranger my pet does more damage than I do. Fill out the pet trait and you can solo pretty much all vets with a cat pet”
If so its even more boring then anyone would guess, you can sit back and auto attack stuff and kill it. Since the game kills stuff for you.
By the way, when i say they are weak, i ment they have stupid ai, and are extremely situational.
Btw who even sead pets are weak? I dont recall a single post complaining abaut pets beeing weak…So i somewheat agree. Pets are not weak…they have other flaws.

“The aoe heal is something like 12 hp heals at lvl 80 every second for like 10 seconds. "
I fully agree, i cant understand heals myself ether. Ga has instant full heal, and there are like 1-2 heals that are good to, but the rest is wtf good for? Why would i want 50 heal per sec for 10 sec instead of a decent burst or constant high dmg pressure?

“At least there I can play a class that fits the role I want to play and not some jack-of-all-trades deal with massive drawbacks.”
Good point!
“(with the possible exception of the ele and/or the engi but they are also far too clunky and not well designed by any stretch of the imagination).
Another good point! I also wanted to say, that some classes would be good actually, if more time was spent on them. They feel shallow. Like somethings are missing

Hmm you actually pointed something out i forgot or could not realize myself Lokki!

“That’s why all these “soloing” videos are popular and people are constantly trying to solo something new. *Because we don’t need each other in combat. we are all 100% self sufficient the only benefit we give each other is additional targets for the mobs to spread damage over. The most another player can do for you is get you up when you are dead…”*

Thats a good point. Many wont realize it seems why the game feels so lonely. Even when i was playing togather with friends, i felt like : Its only faster, but not really more fun. We dont complement eacher. There is barely any synergy. There are surely combos, but mostly they are unnesecary.
In the 70% of the time a heal would have been most usfull instead of stupid blind, ,spreading burning, confusion, cripple or freeze….they all ware useless, since we simply downed mobs with raw direct damage from auto attack or dmg skills.