Guild Wars 2

Hello, community and devs, I have a few questions to both of you and would like to hear your opinions. But before I start, let me clarify something.

I do find this game good, I like (for the most part) it’s aesthetics, I absolutely enjoy it’s music and much into it’s mysterious lore, for what I must thank the people who’ve been working on this franchise for quite a long time.

Yet, there is something that keeps bugging me a lot. It is an important thing: the character design. Must I say that most players want their avatar to look good (some might think that pink plate armour equals good) and developers give them such opportunity to make an eye candy out the pretty deep character creation tool and dyes system. Is that good? Likely.

What makes me sad is that is the only option that devs give us, players, for the most part, giving no credit to original racial designs, “humanising” designs in general and making modern barbies tea party out of somewhat magic+steampunk fantasy setting. And what we have now is a vast number of dolls with the exact same face and/or hair. That problem is most common for female asura and human character, which players behind them want to look abonormally cute, with giant, blue-ish eyes, purple hair and fiery armor set of pink color. I reduce it to an absurdity, before you say. Again, don’t get me wrong, it’s their characters and they do what the want with it, and I absolutely don’t mind popular choises for character face/hair and so long and so forth combinations. What I do mind is that developers, to widen the audience of people unfamiliar with game’s origins, play up to it by adding more and cute faces, that make characters look like dolls.

Indeed, there are exceptions that make me quite happy that this rule is not obsolite, but to be fair, ugly and unattractive faces that avaliable at the total makeover kit are unpopular so much that there is little to point in them. Heck, even I would not use that elderly-looking face for male asura that was added – just because the voice does not fit that face at all, above the fact it’s just hedious (and I think it’s intentional, so work well done). Veterans of EotN do remember what asura were back then. They weren’t particularly cute or appealing like that new generation of asura, most of them had an appearance of some sentient bats that were ready to bite your neck with their sharp teeth. But they had something to them that made them unique and somewhat cute in their own way. So did their architecture, phylosophy and, most importantly, their clothes.

Which is the second point of my list of complaints that moves this game away from the point where it could be many times better.

You see, unlike most players I do find Scarlet not that bad as a character. Within the setting I can accept it. And I do find her face and armor she is using quite fitting into the character. Funny thing is that almost every other character of the Living World design-wise was plain irritating when I first seen them, now I just got used to them and try to avoid the thought that they, for the most part, dressed like parrots, with silly, unpractical weapons at their disposal. That is what I wish was better. That is what I wish was more real. I want to be told of a story of people, not of “strong lesbian bimbos in grotesque armor”. It’s not armor or cute look that makes character stand out and epic, it’s their story and actions. It’s sometimes even some bits on the background that bring them depth – like father-son interaction between Gadd and Vekk. Not that annoying flirt between Marjory and Kasmeer in situation where plot does not demand it. On a side note I must say Kasmeer became more attractive as a character to me during the last scene of Entanglement, and obviously due to Marjory's absence.

But let’s continue. I think I am not the only one who wishes there were more racial-themed armor, from simpliest to complex, and unordinary ways to obtain it. Heck, even if these set were sold at BLTC, it would have been fine. So far designers work good enough and bring us well made sets and costumes that are sold through BLTC, but is it enough, fellow players?

What do you, players, think of character designs and armor designs?
What do you think of Living World cast – I stress – the visual part of it?
What do you prefer – epic actions of characters that surround you, or epic and sometimes unpractical to the degree of absurdity looks?

It’s unlikely that developers would ever reply to this thread, yet I wonder if the “epic” looks will prevail over epic story as the time goes on. Remember: it’s not appearance or clothes that make characters likable. Disagree? Why do people adore Tyrion Lannister so much, then?

I want to add that I didn’t intend to offend anyone. As said, I am sure devs are doing their best to make the game better. But “better” is in different directions, and I shared what direction I find most suitable for high-fantasy genre by my taste.

Now that my intense burst of autism is over, you are free to discuss my person and my post. Thanks for your attention.

Excuse me for being an idiot, but can someone give me a TL;DR for this? not that I didn’t want to read it (just spent about 10 minutes on it) but I don’t get the point of the post?

do you think gear choices look too silly?

do you think ugly armor is too bad?

do you dislike ugly but also want ugly in the hopes that other people will use it?

I feel like I’m missing the point and just reading an argument about… something.

ITheNormalPerson.9275:

Excuse me for being an idiot, but can someone give me a TL;DR for this? not that I didn’t want to read it (just spent about 10 minutes on it) but I don’t get the point of the post?

do you think gear choices look too silly?

do you think ugly armor is too bad?

do you dislike ugly but also want ugly in the hopes that other people will use it?

I feel like I’m missing the point and just reading an argument about… something.

TL/DR:
1) Choises that given to players in terms of customisation are mostly “make a pretty doll out of your character”.
2) Same goes for some major NPCs, such as Living World cast. They look unnatural.
3) For characters to be likable they need to be deep, not sexualized cuties in parrot-like clothes with unpractical weapons in hands.

Your questions can be answered in one sentence.
Armors don’t need to be “epic” to the point where it becomes unpractical and unbelievable. They can and should be different, from poor to fancy, from bland to epic, yet they need to be real enough to believe it’s an armor, that a sane person would wear. Have you seen many medieval/early modern period clothing designs with feathers all over your shoulders that middle-class citizen would wear?

So taking my shorts and my running animation weren’t enough, now you want my face? :|

You’ll probably get your way. Your way is healthy and appropriate, and whoever has the reigns and ears of the Live team seems to want healthy and appropriate.

You are not taking my Canthan faces not now! Not ever!

notebene.3190:

So taking my shorts and my running animation weren’t enough, now you want my face? :|

You’ll probably get your way. Your way is healthy and appropriate, and whoever has the reigns and ears of the Live team seems to want healthy and appropriate.

Your face? Read the post. Everyone is free to make their characters what they want them to be. But more realistic options are more desired.

Some madskillz in pic related.

I agree with the fact that we need less cutesy stuff (armor, faces and hair) for character customization, but I kinda like the fact the weapons and armor look so unique in this game. If it was all practical then it would look like every other fantasy MMO.

One thing that really disappoints me though is that Braham, Kasmeer, Marjory and Scarlet all had armor sets come with them. How come Rox and Taimi didn’t get any cool armor? I was so excited when I first heard of a new asura joining DE 2.0 because I thought they would bring some new asura armor with them. At the moment asura and charr don’t have that many armor options that actually look decent because everything is tailored to fit humans. I would like to see some new armor made specifically for them or at least the other armors made to fit so they don’t look so out of place.

The art and races in this game is so great but I feel like most of the time it gets ignored for Kasmeer-type characters. I’m not trying to bash this game’s character customization or design, because personally I still think it beats all other MMOs combined but I would like to be able to make some new asura characters that don’t look like baby dolls in mutated armor and some charr that don’t look totally out of place.

I think that the majority of the weapons and armour designs never even go close to “obnoxious flaming raid weapon with 100 skulls and spikes” territory. Sure, “impractical IRL” is kind of a staple of the fantasy genre, but I think that especially compared to some other fantasy RPG’s, GW’s more otherworldly designs are usually very tastefully done. Plenty of more realistic looking armours too, for example check out the various lower level chain mail sets.

I disagree on the overtly cute character designs (with the exception of a handful of faces), I mean sure you can make your character look like pretty dolls, but that’s just one of the options available to the player. I mean personally I dislike pink princess characters as well, I prefer to make my own more serious and fitting with lore – I’ve never felt restricted in my options in doing so.

Though which characters in the living world are inappropriately dressed? Braham is basically dressed in furs, like a proper Norn. Kasmeer’s outfit looks elegant and alluring, very appropriate for a mesmer I think. Marjory sports somewhat of a trenchcoat/long skirt, also appropriate for her investigator role. None of them are on fire or covered in skulls and spikes – well, Braham’s shoulder armour kind of does, but then again he’s a Norn so it fits.

This game has only very few armour sets that I find truly hideous and on par with “raid sets” in some other MMO RPG’s, and that’s that .. Sorrow’s Embrace set, and to a lesser extent the Citadel of Flame set. But then again, I’ve also seen 1-2 pieces from those sets used in very nice armour combo’s.

Rox’ eyes are a good example of a victim to the cutsey-lazer.

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/57619/gw756.jpg

I still dont even really consider her a charr, i just pretend she doesnt exist at all.

Gaebriel.3754:

Though which characters in the living world are inappropriately dressed? Braham is basically dressed in furs, like a proper Norn. Kasmeer’s outfit looks elegant and alluring, very appropriate for a mesmer I think. Marjory sports somewhat of a trenchcoat/long skirt, also appropriate for her investigator role. None of them are on fire or covered in skulls and spikes – well, Braham’s shoulder armour kind of does, but then again he’s a Norn so it fits.

Let me give you an axample of classic mesmer design. Check the pic related. This is waht mesmers used to look like. It’s clothes, not parrot-dress, which Kasmeer wears.

On a side note, if Marjory had no feathers on her coat and gloves, it would have looked ten times better.

To determine if armor set is good or bad you can ask one simple question: would you wear such a thing if you were them?

Hmm. Well first TBH it was TL;DR. But I think I get the gist of your point.

I guess, for one, I can say I must be VERY happy with character design on this game considering almost the sole reason I play everyday is to acquire all the pretty gear for my characters, and I spend a A LOT of time in character customisation modifying their faces, making sure I love their hair. I buy makeover kits and hair kits too. I get excited when they add new hairs and faces. NONE of my characters have big anime eyes and cutesy faces. (The closest would be on of my sylvaris, but her eyes only look big because I made them white and open. I wanted her to look eager). I believe abundance of similar looking characters is more down to player choice. More players seem to go for those looks, or just keep the defaults.

As for the Living Story NPCs. I like them. I like Rox’s eyes. They’re not too silly, they make her different to most charr. They suit her personality IMO, she should look more girly than most female charr, as I think she shows a girly side we haven’t seen in most charr. Taimi’s design is perfect. Braham’s face is so ugly, but actually suits him and does make him unique. His armours suit him (and norn) too. Marjory looked better in the artsy cutscenes, and the only reason I don’t like her face is because it’s not the face I would personally choose. But it too, makes her different. Kasmeer’s look fits her, she is an upper class pretty girl; point made. I see the real world equivalent of Kasmeer as well off girl who studied ballet dance during her teen years, naturally gorgeous, girly. And IMO, if those real life girls were to choose what they’d wear in the GW2 world, they’d choose something very similar to Kasmeer’s outfit.

I think there’s enough choice out there for players to dress in many different ways, how they want. And I also feel this is a part of the game that is ALWAYS getting updated, unlike a lot of the more rejected parts of the game (aka dungeon bugs). We are constantly getting new faces, new hair, new armour, new hats, new back pieces… you’re really spoiled for choice. It is completely viable to have a character without cutesy anime eyes and the same hair style as everyone else.

Although I feel this thread is more about actual character design (not armour) I think the one area that needs a BIG looking over is charr armour, because it never fits the same way on a charr than another race, which is really bad. But anyway.

My characters are essentially my grown up equivalent of barbie dolls. I make them look as I want, I dress them as I want. They are my babies. And it’s the drive behind why I play this game. I love them all and my choice of designs.

TL;DR There’s a huge choice of looks in this game that allow you vary from cutesy to pretty to mature and tough. I like all the Living Story character designs and think they’re all justified.

sazberryftw.3809:

TL;DR There’s a huge choice of looks in this game that allow you vary from cutesy to pretty to mature and tough.

Did anyone declare it’s otherwise?

Aethelbert.1497:

sazberryftw.3809:

TL;DR There’s a huge choice of looks in this game that allow you vary from cutesy to pretty to mature and tough.

Did anyone declare it’s otherwise?

Well I thought the point was do I feel there is enough variation? I do yes. But I will add to my last point.

I was after creating a older human female but for me the voice does not match face to me. Would be nice if we could have an option to at least change the pitch of the voice or something.

PSX.9250:

I was after creating a older human female but for me the voice does not match face to me. Would be nice if we could have an option to at least change the pitch of the voice or something.

I do second this. I mean, I completely understand only doing one voice actor (multiple would have been A LOT extra work) but maybe a slight pitch variation. But it would be capped so you couldn’t make silly voices (super deep, super squeeky). OR they add new voice packs to the gem store now that they can spend time recording again (still a lot of work but not impossible).

Aethelbert.1497:

Gaebriel.3754:

Though which characters in the living world are inappropriately dressed? Braham is basically dressed in furs, like a proper Norn. Kasmeer’s outfit looks elegant and alluring, very appropriate for a mesmer I think. Marjory sports somewhat of a trenchcoat/long skirt, also appropriate for her investigator role. None of them are on fire or covered in skulls and spikes – well, Braham’s shoulder armour kind of does, but then again he’s a Norn so it fits.

Let me give you an axample of classic mesmer design. Check the pic related. This is waht mesmers used to look like. It’s clothes, not parrot-dress, which Kasmeer wears.

On a side note, if Marjory had no feathers on her coat and gloves, it would have looked ten times better.

To determine if armor set is good or bad you can ask one simple question: would you wear such a thing if you were them?

Yep I know the classic Mesmer designs. It’s not what they “used to look like” though, you can make a variety of similiarly styled outfits in GW2. Though I don’t see what’s off about the feathery theme of Kasmeer’s dress, it looks elegant and suits the GW style, it’s not over the top either. There are several sets with a feathery theme in the game, for all we know they might be a popular fashion accessory in Tyria.

It is almost impossible to make a human male character that doesn’t look like a one direction member

I stopped reading at “strong lesbian bimbos in grotesque armor”, more stories about these please.

Gaebriel.3754:

Aethelbert.1497:

Gaebriel.3754:

Though which characters in the living world are inappropriately dressed? Braham is basically dressed in furs, like a proper Norn. Kasmeer’s outfit looks elegant and alluring, very appropriate for a mesmer I think. Marjory sports somewhat of a trenchcoat/long skirt, also appropriate for her investigator role. None of them are on fire or covered in skulls and spikes – well, Braham’s shoulder armour kind of does, but then again he’s a Norn so it fits.

Let me give you an axample of classic mesmer design. Check the pic related. This is waht mesmers used to look like. It’s clothes, not parrot-dress, which Kasmeer wears.

On a side note, if Marjory had no feathers on her coat and gloves, it would have looked ten times better.

To determine if armor set is good or bad you can ask one simple question: would you wear such a thing if you were them?

Yep I know the classic Mesmer designs. It’s not what they “used to look like” though, you can make a variety of similiarly styled outfits in GW2. Though I don’t see what’s off about the feathery theme of Kasmeer’s dress, it looks elegant and suits the GW style, it’s not over the top either. There are several sets with a feathery theme in the game, for all we know they might be a popular fashion accessory in Tyria.

Funny fact, but I haven’t seen much of feathery outfits on human NPCs across all playable Tyria. It’s over the top and it doesn’t fit GW style as a result.
Imagine for a second if tengu sees a human in that feathery outfit. Awkward situation. Like if a human met a charr in a coat made of human skin.

kratan.4619:

I stopped reading at “strong lesbian bimbos in grotesque armor”, more stories about these please.

They possess powers that most people do not in this setting, so they are strong, in the manner of speaking.
They are lesbians, suddenly.
They aren’t as smart as they could be, while they’re definetely more attractive than average women. In Marjory’s case she’s just clichéd to death, not particularly dumb.
And lastly, their clothes seem grotesque to me.

Point is, I do not mind all listed above, I mind how it’s combined and thrown at the player.

As far as I’ve seen, feathers and wings in general are a popular motif amongst GW humans. For example, take a look at the cultural T2 medium armour, it has a coat shaped like feathers. The heavy T2 includes wing- and feather-shaped decorations, the T3 as well. The coat from Caudecus manor includes a wing motif on the back. The Queen’s Pavillion is shaped like a bird, its wings enveloping the arena itself. The many references to wings and feathers are likely due to the depiction of Dwayna as being winged. There are many more instances of feather decorations on humans throughout the game, it’s quite a common theme though I’m not gonna list them all. :P

And well .. at the moment I couldn’t care less what a Tengu would think .. they shot me in the Lion’s Arch battle!

Gaebriel.3754:

As far as I’ve seen, feathers and wings in general are a popular motif amongst GW humans. For example, take a look at the cultural T2 medium armour, it has a coat shaped like feathers. The heavy T2 includes wing- and feather-shaped decorations, the T3 as well. The coat from Caudecus manor includes a wing motif on the back. The Queen’s Pavillion is shaped like a bird, its wings enveloping the arena itself. The many references to wings and feathers are likely due to the depiction of Dwayna as being winged. There are many more instances of feather decorations on humans throughout the game, it’s quite a common theme though I’m not gonna list them all. :P

And well .. at the moment I couldn’t care less what a Tengu would think .. they shot me in the Lion’s Arch battle!

Point taken.
But somehow I still feel that it’s far from point where it’s just an accessory. These feathers are every-kitten-where.

Personally, I’m currently more concerned about the clipping-stretching issues associated with the non-human races and body-types with armor sets then I am with the gemstore faces and hairstyles. And to be honest, I’m happy with the nonhuman racial choices in GW2; they are incredibly unique compared to most of typical elf/dwarf/orc/sparkle-colored human/etc, out there. It’s not every day in the MMO world where you get to play as a little techno-gremlin, or a sentient bioluminescent plant, or a giant cat-beast that runs on all fours. Or 6-foot samurai turkeys if we eventually get the Tengu.

The problem is that the non-human quality of the races was never properly implemented or utilized into the gameplay design, let alone the armor design for that matter.

Let’s say I’m playing as an Asura and I visit the miners’ cave in the new Dry Top zone. You know, the really dark one where you can’t see anything. Lore-wise, Asura had been living in caves some 250 years prior and evolved large ears and eyes to cope with the dark environmental conditions. So why can’t my Asura see in the dark? Maybe it would be more interesting (and meaningful) if night vision was implemented for Asura only, then maybe I could help lead or direct my non-Asuran party members through dark areas in zones or dungeons.
Another example: there’s a dialogue conversation between two charr in the Black Citadel, where one soldier warns another to always keep his claws sharpened as an “extra set of weapons.” Yet Charr players were never given a racial skill to use their claws so that they can inflict x3 bleeding for 5 seconds or something. Or even better, if I’m playing as a cat that can run on all fours, why do I have to run at the same speed of the other races? Why not have a skill option where I can almost as fast as a WoW Worgen with 10 second exhaustion cooldowns in between ever 30 seconds or so?
Another: Sylvari say they can sense the foliage and the plants around them. The current LS story takes advantage of soundless Sylvari by making them far more susceptible to Mordremoth’s corruption. What if a player’s sylvari character has the ability to sense Mordrem plants within a certain distance so that they can avoid being hindered by any potential Tower of Nightmares-inspired hallucinations from Mordremoth if they choose to run away?
Instead, all races are given the same treatment, there are no genuine advantages or disadvantages when it comes to choosing a race and their potential abilities are reduced to measly profession-inspired skills which do not play a key part in the gameplay mechanics. Making such skills quite useless and therefore rarely-used.
That basically leaves the player to choose their races based on aesthetics and personal preference. Animations and physical appearance become the prime factors, and it doesn’t help when a majority of the armor sets look kittening awful on the nonhuman races. Like the Sylvari or Asura? Be ready for your ears and leaves to clip through your armor or just be completely covered. Rolling Norn – specifically male Norn? I hope you like stretched textures. Play Charr? Congrats: you get both clipping AND stretched textures!

It’s even worse when almost of the armor sets are tailored to suit players with human characters, with the only exception being cultural armors. You get pieces that cover up the elaborate tattoos, fur patterns and bioluminescent lights on Norn, Charr and Sylvari and such; you know – the physical characteristics that make them unique from the other races. And then you have headgear that completely gets rid of the Asuras’ most defining tait – the ears. It then quickly becomes of case of “what’s the point,” or “why not just stick to generic elves and dwarves if they’re going to be this lazy with such unique MMO races?” Or simply – “why bother playing as anything else other than human?”

Still, it’s good news to see that Arenanet is finally starting to learn from their mistakes by including the PC’s race and upbringing into the LS narrative and finally fixing the tail-clipping with Charr when it comes to gemstore armor. But they still have a long, looong way to go and the cutesy baby-doll face options are the least of it.