Guild Wars 2

Okay guys, rant post.

The Charr. Let’s be charitable and NOT say that they are a Orc-Tauren mix, and say instead that they are beast race for those of us who don’t want to be Barbie dolls, and also not ugly midgets. As there seems to be no racial bonuses at all in this game, it seems to boil down to aesthetics and story. So far, the Charr story is okay — the ghost invasion thing from the prior human kingdom that got wrekt by the Charr at some point in the past is a little bad, but not terribad. The Legion lore seems cool. The aesthetics, though….

….wow, is it BAD!

Far from being a fearsome beast of war, the Charr simply resemble rat-men with cat faces. This image is promoted by the very unfortunate hunch-backs, skinny legs and arms, the rodent-like stride when doing the run animation — I suppose it is supposed to look cat-like, but due to it’s glacial slowness it just reminds me of a rat. The one feature of the race that doesn’t remind me of rats, besides the cat-faces are the….

Tails.

Wagging tails.

Wagging tails EVERYWHERE.

The extremely prominent swishing of tails, jammed in your face at all times, does nothing except remind me of a happy dog. Swish, swish, swish.

I don’t want to be a Barbie doll. I don’t want to be a ugly midget. Maybe I should roll Norn?

There are some rather handsome asurans…

From Lewis Carroll:

“To begin with," said the Cat, “a dog’s not mad. You grant that?”
“I suppose so,” said Alice
“Well, then,” the Cat went on, “you see a dog growls when it’s angry, and wags its tail when it’s pleased. Now I growl when I’m pleased, and wag my tail when I’m angry. Therefore I’m mad.”
“I call it purring, not growling,” said Alice.
“Call it what you like,” said the Cat.”

Though it does not predate the warcraft universe, GW1 predates WoW itself, having been released in early 2004. Therefore though the Charr do not predate Orcs and Tauren in their warcraft permutation, they most certainly do predate their playable, and thus recognisable forms.

At best, then, this is a case of parallel evolution/design. I wouldn’t even allow that much. I don’t see anything even vaguely tauren or orc-like in the charr. To me, they resemble the original race, though we have not seen the upright variant in these games.

cadmiumgreen.8712:

I guess you haven’t gotten to the part where the Tribunes are having a cat fight over which is the best- plastic bags, cardboard boxes or laser pointers. The Iron Legion prefers laser pointers, of course. Technology and well.. lasers. The Blood Legion prefers plastic bags since they make the most noise when you attack them in the dead of night. Ash Legion prefers cardboard boxes because they make the best places to set up an ambush. You as the player must settle these differences and pick the best. I went with laser pointers. It was a tough choice though as the case for cardboard boxes was pretty compelling.

You are officially invited to my warband.

As Narrrz pointed out, not everything flows from the holy font that is WoW. >_>; Orcs in folklore go back to Beowulf. Tauren, afaik, are just minotaurs renamed. Minotaurs go back to ancient Greek mythology.

I consider the charr in this game cat-cows. If you want rat men, look to the skritt. It DOES boil down to aesthetics. If you don’t like charr, “ugly midgets” or “Barbie dolls”, then don’t play them! Play a plant-person or hulking humanoid that can turn into a beast if you like that aesthetic better. The game has quite a few customization options; try some.

Donari.5237:

From Lewis Carroll:

“To begin with," said the Cat, “a dog’s not mad. You grant that?”
“I suppose so,” said Alice
“Well, then,” the Cat went on, “you see a dog growls when it’s angry, and wags its tail when it’s pleased. Now I growl when I’m pleased, and wag my tail when I’m angry. Therefore I’m mad.”
“I call it purring, not growling,” said Alice.
“Call it what you like,” said the Cat.”

^

Lol. I guess the op doesn’t have a cat, or has never paid much attention to them. Cats flick their tails when irritated. Not when they’re happy. Since Charr are a warlike race and quick to anger, that’s not tail wagging. That’s tail lashing.

My only problem with Charr is there’s no option to make them stand upright like some proud noble GW1 Charr did. Would like to have some primal/tribal looking armor though for Charr and Sylvari.

Any anyone who doesn’t think my Asura is cute is a madman.

Also, stop letting Warcraft corrupt your mind.

Doggie.3184:

My only problem with Charr is there’s no option to make them stand upright like some proud noble GW1 Charr did. Would like to have some primal/tribal looking armor though for Charr and Sylvari.

Because the flame legion (hardly “noble”) were constantly craning their necks and making themselves very uncomfortable for aesthetic purposes. If you notice, the other three legions didn’t use that posture in GW1.

To give you a hint how that position would feel to a charr, stand up and stare straight at the ceiling for ten minutes. No looking anywhere else.

That gives you a taste.

GUTB.8436:

snip

I like my Charr a lot and I think Charrs have the coolest emotes.

And in fact a friend of mine rerolled his warrior main to be a Charr and afterwards only created Charr after he saw mine :P
(Well, and half of the guards and warrior in wvw are Charr – who then need to be rerolled into humans to not stick out of the crowd – although the crowd is basically them.)

ETA: Pic because “come on – you can’t deny that this looks good!”

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Doggie.3184:

My only problem with Charr is there’s no option to make them stand upright like some proud noble GW1 Charr did. Would like to have some primal/tribal looking armor though for Charr and Sylvari.

Because the flame legion (hardly “noble”) were constantly craning their necks and making themselves very uncomfortable for aesthetic purposes. If you notice, the other three legions didn’t use that posture in GW1.

To give you a hint how that position would feel to a charr, stand up and stare straight at the ceiling for ten minutes. No looking anywhere else.

That gives you a taste.

I don’t care about whatever logic and science exists. I want them to stand upright by whatever means necessary. They do it while holding weapons anyways so just keep it like that.

I always was confused by the hunch-back phenomenon. It’s as if all the art designers in all these games have this bias that hunch = barbaric and beastly. Which I find laughable, just put them upstraight like any two-legged vertebraetes known to man and every imaginable universe and hunch them down when holding weapons / combat stance.

Ice.5162:

I always was confused by the hunch-back phenomenon. It’s as if all the art designers in all these games have this bias that hunch = barbaric and beastly. Which I find laughable, just put them upstraight like any two-legged vertebraetes known to man and every imaginable universe and hunch them down when holding weapons / combat stance.

The charr aren’t fully bipedal, though – even though npc charr run on two legs, player charr clearly prefer running on all fours when possible. When your primary means of running is by four legs, hunched back makes sense – having the back curve backwards to stand up straight would put too much strain on the spine of such a heavy creature on transition to running.

Also, are you aware of bipedal dinosaurs?

Tuomir.1830:

Ice.5162:

I always was confused by the hunch-back phenomenon. It’s as if all the art designers in all these games have this bias that hunch = barbaric and beastly. Which I find laughable, just put them upstraight like any two-legged vertebraetes known to man and every imaginable universe and hunch them down when holding weapons / combat stance.

The charr aren’t fully bipedal, though – even though npc charr run on two legs, player charr clearly prefer running on all fours when possible. When your primary means of running is by four legs, hunched back makes sense – having the back curve backwards to stand up straight would put too much strain on the spine of such a heavy creature on transition to running.

Also, are you aware of bipedal dinosaurs?

Or birds for that matter. Or kangaroos. They don’t stand up vertically like humans.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tuomir.1830:

Ice.5162:

I always was confused by the hunch-back phenomenon. It’s as if all the art designers in all these games have this bias that hunch = barbaric and beastly. Which I find laughable, just put them upstraight like any two-legged vertebraetes known to man and every imaginable universe and hunch them down when holding weapons / combat stance.

The charr aren’t fully bipedal, though – even though npc charr run on two legs, player charr clearly prefer running on all fours when possible. When your primary means of running is by four legs, hunched back makes sense – having the back curve backwards to stand up straight would put too much strain on the spine of such a heavy creature on transition to running.

Also, are you aware of bipedal dinosaurs?

Or birds for that matter. Or kangaroos. They don’t stand up vertically like humans.

Take a look at basilisk lizards. Quadrupedal animals that run on only two legs.

I don’t need them to look like furry Orcs. But note that Orcs, who are hunchbacks, have huge muscular arms ready to smash things. It makes them look like brutes. The Charr have these skinny arms and legs that make them look like the unfortunate result of a genetic disorder.

Moving on from the character design choices, their setting is….very oddball.

Why is their capital the Death Star?

Why is the Death Star mostly meaningless metal plates bolted together? Is it sort of like spikes everywhere in Horde buildings? Fans that don’t appear to do anything. Steam vents where not only they serve no purpose, but nothing which is obviously generating the steam. Having the metal floors of your mostly empty space Death Star city in cog-wheel patterns doesn’t seem to fit the swag of a supposedly savage warlike beat race.

Ice.5162:

I always was confused by the hunch-back phenomenon. It’s as if all the art designers in all these games have this bias that hunch = barbaric and beastly. Which I find laughable, just put them upstraight like any two-legged vertebraetes known to man and every imaginable universe and hunch them down when holding weapons / combat stance.

I like the Charr’s hunched posture. It makes them feel more like a distinct species and less like weird-looking humans with surgically-grafted animal heads, which is what a LOT of other video games do for their beast races (cough, Elder Scrolls, cough).

As for standing upright “like any two-legged vertebrates”, now you’re just making ignorant and false claims. Go look at any two-legged dinosaur, bird, or non-human primate and tell me if they walk standing straight up like humans do. Or better yet, just take a look at this comparison of primate skeletons: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Ape_skeletons.png

The human is the ONLY one out of the five with a clear “S” shaped spine that points directly up to the sky, because that shape is designed for an upright posture. The rest of the primate spines are all bow-shaped and angled forward, because those spines are designed for walking in a hunched-over posture.

A completely upright, two-legged posture is an anomaly in the animal world. We as humans are the exception to the rule with our upright, S-curve spines.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tuomir.1830:

Ice.5162:

I always was confused by the hunch-back phenomenon. It’s as if all the art designers in all these games have this bias that hunch = barbaric and beastly. Which I find laughable, just put them upstraight like any two-legged vertebraetes known to man and every imaginable universe and hunch them down when holding weapons / combat stance.

The charr aren’t fully bipedal, though – even though npc charr run on two legs, player charr clearly prefer running on all fours when possible. When your primary means of running is by four legs, hunched back makes sense – having the back curve backwards to stand up straight would put too much strain on the spine of such a heavy creature on transition to running.

Also, are you aware of bipedal dinosaurs?

Or birds for that matter. Or kangaroos. They don’t stand up vertically like humans.

Take a look at basilisk lizards. Quadrupedal animals that run on only two legs.

Hmmm. Googled it and got a picture. Basilisk lizard running. And not vertically but leaning forward.

@Ausfer

I might’ve used an exaggeration but those primates use their knuckles to move a lot of the times, so not entirely two-legged, but without getting into the semantics, I don’t mind the charr as they are but sometimes the hunch seems so severe I ask myself how do they not topple over, the overall balance feels like it could’ve been better, and I don’t know if it’s just me but when you do a /salute /yes or such emotes where they straighten their backs makes me wish that they would’ve at least put in an idle animation like that. (also the NPC talking animation WHY ARE THERE NO TALKING ANIMATIONS IN THE GAME)

Charr running animation is quite stupid really. First off, it doesn’t make character go any faster, so it feels really awkward. I see the reasoning, but when you play as charr that doesn’t make any sense and breaks up immersion. The second thing is that is the only animation which makes character run on his fours. If you strafe right/left character will suddenly go bipedal, if you get slow/chill condition character will use bipedal animation as well. Walking? Bipedal. Standing? Bipedal. Not to mention NPCs, I never seen them running on fours.

Ice.5162:

@Ausfer

I might’ve used an exaggeration but those primates use their knuckles to move a lot of the times, so not entirely two-legged, but without getting into the semantics, I don’t mind the charr as they are but sometimes the hunch seems so severe I ask myself how do they not topple over, the overall balance feels like it could’ve been better, and I don’t know if it’s just me but when you do a /salute /yes or such emotes where they straighten their backs makes me wish that they would’ve at least put in an idle animation like that. (also the NPC talking animation WHY ARE THERE NO TALKING ANIMATIONS IN THE GAME)

The tail is a huge part of their balance. It sticks out behind them farther than they lean forward. It acts as a counter to the hunched over bit.

Garm.9750:

Charr running animation is quite stupid really. First off, it doesn’t make character go any faster, so it feels really awkward. I see the reasoning, but when you play as charr that doesn’t make any sense and breaks up immersion. The second thing is that is the only animation which makes character run on his fours. If you strafe right/left character will suddenly go bipedal, if you get slow/chill condition character will use bipedal animation as well. Walking? Bipedal. Standing? Bipedal. Not to mention NPCs, I never seen them running on fours.

What you’re seeing there is a mechanics/lore disconnect for the sake of balance. Canonically, charr can outrun any other sapient race on Tyria. In Ghosts of Ascalon, Ember Doomforge uses this to her advantage and outrun basically every ghost in Ascalon City at once. Buuut, we can’t have one race running so much faster than all the rest for reasons of game balance.

As for strafing, that one is simple. Quadrupedal stances don’t strafe well. Since Charr are capable of walking on two legs, they do so to strafe much faster.

Before you say that running is the only animation that has a charr run on all fours, pick up a Greatsword on your Guardian, Ranger, or Warrior and use the dash skill. Or give them a banner and use that dash. The “surprised” emote also has them standing on all fours.

My only problem with the charr is that is that I’m not allowed to make one without 4 ears and horn. I prefer just a normal looking cat-man.

GUTB.8436:

Okay guys, rant post.

The Charr. Let’s be charitable and NOT say that they are a Orc-Tauren mix, and say instead that they are beast race for those of us who don’t want to be Barbie dolls, and also not ugly midgets. As there seems to be no racial bonuses at all in this game, it seems to boil down to aesthetics and story. So far, the Charr story is okay — the ghost invasion thing from the prior human kingdom that got wrekt by the Charr at some point in the past is a little bad, but not terribad. The Legion lore seems cool. The aesthetics, though….

….wow, is it BAD!

Far from being a fearsome beast of war, the Charr simply resemble rat-men with cat faces. This image is promoted by the very unfortunate hunch-backs, skinny legs and arms, the rodent-like stride when doing the run animation — I suppose it is supposed to look cat-like, but due to it’s glacial slowness it just reminds me of a rat. The one feature of the race that doesn’t remind me of rats, besides the cat-faces are the….

Tails.

Wagging tails.

Wagging tails EVERYWHERE.

The extremely prominent swishing of tails, jammed in your face at all times, does nothing except remind me of a happy dog. Swish, swish, swish.

I don’t want to be a Barbie doll. I don’t want to be a ugly midget. Maybe I should roll Norn?

let´s be charitable and not get into your WoW reference for not making you look like an utter fool.

feline creatures feature tails, is that really coming as a surprise?

catlike movement… I suggest you watch some animal documentaries. Have you ever seen eg. a lion move? A 200+ kg feline does not move “catlike”, probably even less so when anthropomorphized.

Charr walk upright. They lope when they run (unless carrying something). So if you want them bipedal, either keep their weapon drawn, or toggle to walking pace.

Charr are felinoids; they are cat-people. As everyone else has already pointed out how their physique, gait, and tail-lashing play into this, I’m not going to repeat it.

The Shaman Caste WAS known for standing perfectly erect, probably to assume a “height advantage” or to seem “less bestial”, like those humans they’re fighting. between that and wanting to find “gods”, the Flame Legion really seemed to turn their back on charr culture.

From a charr’s POV, their stance and gait ARE natural. Why should they care that they don’t run like humans? Who made humans a role model for charr to aspire to? As far as the charr are concerned, it’s the humans who are doing it wrong!

You don’t want to play a charr, because they’re not “human enough” for you. That’s actually perfectly fine, if a bit closed-minded. (To be fair, it can be very difficult to think outside the “human experience” box.) It’s not hurting anyone; you just play the race you’re comfortable with.

I felt like shoving my 2 cents in… so take it. Take it hard.

ANY creature that walks on it’s hind legs DOES NOT have a hunch unless they have a physical deformity.

It does not matter if they run on all fours or their default stance in on all fours (Note the Charr’s is a hind legged stand)

Charr should have be standing up right. Period. They can run on all fours like a beast, that’s fine (Even though they don’t run any faster than the other two legged races, which is the whole purpose of running on four legs), they can even hunch over a bit while in combat, e.i. combat stance, but the hunch is such a hideous and vile fantasy archetype for the "Barbarian/warrior/beastly races.

Oh, and here is REAL WORLD PROOF that four legged creatures ARE NOT HUNCHBACK when walking upright.

Also, the Charr neck and head area is so incredibly fat that there is no way that skinny little tail is preventing them from falling flat on their faces multiple times a day.

After reading this I just keep imagining a Charr soldier talking to an allied human in the trenches… “Burn me, Human! Get your head down! You trying to get it shot off sticking it up like that?” X:3 (<- four horns cat-smiley)

Ok, now I want Charr emoji for this board.

myself.2143:

Also, the Charr neck and head area is so incredibly fat that there is no way that skinny little tail is preventing them from falling flat on their faces multiple times a day.

You’d be incredibly surprised how a simple long, thin pole can change the center of balance on a larger object. Physics really is the real worlds magic.

myself.2143:

ANY creature that walks on it’s hind legs DOES NOT have a hunch unless they have a physical deformity.

Tyrannosaurus Rex disagrees (and eats the kitten clown-dog ). Any biped leans forward proportionate to the counterbalance of their tail. Yes, Charr tails should probably be a bit larger for their at-rest standing posture. But even humans appear to hunch forward in various fighting stances.

…Besides, we all know the Charr ‘skeleton’ used in animating this game is the same as/was designed for the Tengu…

myself.2143:

I felt like shoving my 2 cents in… so take it. Take it hard.

ANY creature that walks on it’s hind legs DOES NOT have a hunch unless they have a physical deformity.

It does not matter if they run on all fours or their default stance in on all fours (Note the Charr’s is a hind legged stand)

Charr should have be standing up right. Period. They can run on all fours like a beast, that’s fine (Even though they don’t run any faster than the other two legged races, which is the whole purpose of running on four legs), they can even hunch over a bit while in combat, e.i. combat stance, but the hunch is such a hideous and vile fantasy archetype for the "Barbarian/warrior/beastly races.

Oh, and here is REAL WORLD PROOF that four legged creatures ARE NOT HUNCHBACK when walking upright.

Depends on the anatomy whether they are upright or not when walking.

Doggie.3184:

My only problem with Charr is there’s no option to make them stand upright like some proud noble GW1 Charr did. Would like to have some primal/tribal looking armor though for Charr and Sylvari.

Any anyone who doesn’t think my Asura is cute is a madman.

Also, stop letting Warcraft corrupt your mind.

They run upright, at least not on all fours, if you have a one handed weapon drawn.

Charr master race.

this is how charr ought to look…

There is no MMO universe where making non-human races look and act more human is a good thing. We get FAR too many watered down pseudo-humans as it is.

Nike.2631:

There is no MMO universe where making non-human races look and act more human is a good thing. We get FAR too many watered down pseudo-humans as it is.

This. Archeage is probably the worst in this regard.

Okay, the first problem here is you said charr are tauren-orc mixes. You can’t approach an entirely new game with another game’s racial whatevers. For the last time this game is not that game we all talk about, it will not play the same to you as that game does. Charr are not tauren, charr are not orcs. They have an entirely different history than those two races from that other game.

Charr tail is ok as it is, would be a bit boring if it didn’t move.

Only got an Engineer Charr that uses a flamethrower, I always equip it when moving as I find the running on all fours worse than a tail and the flamethrower makes sure I move on 2 legs.

It’s more awkward jumping with a Charr than the other races, probably due to the body being bent over, but jumping is still doable.

Kravick.4906:

Nike.2631:

There is no MMO universe where making non-human races look and act more human is a good thing. We get FAR too many watered down pseudo-humans as it is.

This. Archeage is probably the worst in this regard.

GUH. Creepy uncanny valley nekoboys. With only 3 fur patterns. Three. “But ArcheAge has the best customization” dotdotdot. I called BS on that well over a year ago. :p

Meanwhile, if one comes from WoW enough to make the Orc-Tauren comparison, you should be used to the slouching. Getting awesome armor on half of the Horde is useless, because you can’t see the chest piece. (Wouldn’t mind the option for upright Charr, but I don’t consider it a must or kew about lore one way or the other.)

Also, Charr are much more steam-era Romans than the noble tribal-savages that are in the Horde. It’s a refreshing distinction, actually.

Still, OP has a slight point in aesthetics. The clipping. By the tank-mangled gods, the clipping. And most of the older styles just don’t work with their bodies, at all. But, ANet’s learning, so hopefully we’ll have some good options in the future.

By the way, as an owner of 3 cats, I can tell you plainly that they swish all the time, even when they’re sleeping. Cats swish when they’re happy, just not as swishy as dogs, that slow wagging back and forth is very cat like. Now if that tail starts swishing methodically, watch out.

I actually like they way they look in certain cases. what ruins it for me almost every time is their tail… Sticking straight out of armor usually.

At least give us the option to hide tail.

Tere.4759:

By the way, as an owner of 3 cats, I can tell you plainly that they swish all the time, even when they’re sleeping. Cats swish when they’re happy, just not as swishy as dogs, that slow wagging back and forth is very cat like. Now if that tail starts swishing methodically, watch out.

Cat swishing of tail indicates interest, agitation, boredom… basically any mood but friendly or asleep.
Individual mileage may vary, of course. My cat lashes her tail almost constantly while being patted but looks at me like i kicked her puppy if i ever stop.

Charr have the best /threaten and /surprised emotes in the game, hands down.

Charr look the best with heavy weapons, too. (Though Asura steal the distinction for best animations with heavy weapons.)

Charr look great in Heavy armor.

Charr lore and their general philosophy makes them very admirable. Fighting three longstanding wars on three fronts, and not outright losing any of them is just bonkers from a logistics standpoint.

Their technology is second only to Asura, and the Charr themselves are probably the sturdiest race, MAYBE second only to Norn.

There is absolutely nothing I don’t love about Charr.

They modeled the charr after this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXGg9Dd17G8

I think it’s pretty accurate.

The problem with aesthetics is they are subjective. That means that what you think is never the complete truth. The only way to overcome this obstacle is to let your aesthetic senses to grow over your mere “taste”, to take technical aspects into account, and to clean your criticism of as much prejudice as you can.

Charr are original, look and MOVE like a cat-like predator would, have a good story, interesting culture and show the commitment of the designers to make really non-human creatures. IMO thats more than enough to inform my opinion on them: Charr are GREAT.

Trying to compare GW2 aethetics with “that other game” aesthetics in a sad, sad mistake. They are not only very different, they also obey to completelly opposite design principles: GW2 art style tryes to propose some new things, compromise with lore and not with market convention, and sometimes even promotes diversity and equality through the designs. While not all of their work is really good (Legendaries are particularly poor, and humans are simply lame), Charr are one of the high points of this approuch.

The other game just exaggerate (sometimes to the point of deformity) some of the most cheap and tacky old school fantasy themes: absurd musculature, extreme sexualization, “animal headed humans”, hyper decorated armor, shallow cultural diversity, etc. While their Trolls are truly original and aethetically interesting, Tauren and Orcs are not.

First..ugly midgets, if you are referring to the lovely Asura race you need glasses or meds, because we are the best, most beautiful race in the history of the universe. Excelsior! Secondly, Charr are fine as are and their tails are very fun to CHOMP. Who could resist that wonderfully waggy fluffy tail of chompage. I think you would be better off as a cookie cutter human bookah though by the sounds of it. Pft, midgets, I’ve got a lesson to teach you!

I think Rox is a super cool charr character.
I mean look at those eyes, totally on catnip:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/5/5b/Rox.jpg

Narrrz.7532:

Though it does not predate the warcraft universe, GW1 predates WoW itself, having been released in early 2004. Therefore though the Charr do not predate Orcs and Tauren in their warcraft permutation, they most certainly do predate their playable, and thus recognisable forms.

At best, then, this is a case of parallel evolution/design. I wouldn’t even allow that much. I don’t see anything even vaguely tauren or orc-like in the charr. To me, they resemble the original race, though we have not seen the upright variant in these games.

I’m sorry but GW1 was released in April 2005 m8. I was there during that beta as well. WoW is 2004. I’ve been a huge fan of charr since the release. I made a tauren in WoW once that shifted into a cat……poor looking 4 legged version of charr imo. Charr are simply a cat/bovine race. GAME ON

Charr have the best music.