Guild Wars 2

Are there any gay charr? Are there any lesbian charr? Just curious because many players are so used to homosexuality being frowned upon in the military, many people assume the charr are against it. However in the past it was different. From the wikipedia article on homosexuality in the military.

“Throughout history, there have been several cultures which have looked favorably on homosexual behavior in the military. Perhaps the most well-known example is found in ancient Greece and Rome. Homosexual behavior was encouraged among soldiers because it was thought to increase unit cohesiveness, morale and bravery. The Sacred Band of Thebes was a military unit from 378 BCE which consisted of male lovers who were known for their effectiveness in battle. Same-sex love was also prevalent among the Samurai class in Japan and was practiced between an adult and a younger apprentice.”

My male cat loves rubbing himself against my leg when I get home from work and I’m a guy. And Charrs are a cat race.

On second thought that is probably not what you were asking.

nevermind

Hm, not that I can think of. There’s at least one for every other race, but I’m not recalling any charr. It’s probably because sexuality (straight, gay, or otherwise) doesn’t really come up much in game, so there’s really no reason to assume charr culture is anti-gay.

Of course, we’d have an example if Logan and Rytlock would just profess their love for each other :P

Mechalibur.9618:

Hm, not that I can think of. There’s at least one for every other race, but I’m not recalling any charr. It’s probably because sexuality (straight, gay, or otherwise) doesn’t really come up much in game, so there’s really no reason to assume charr culture is anti-gay.

Of course, we’d have an example if Logan and Rytlock would just profess their love for each other :P

But that would be beastiality then, not homosexuality. or maybe homosexual beastiality?? Eeeek

Mitch.4781:

Mechalibur.9618:

Hm, not that I can think of. There’s at least one for every other race, but I’m not recalling any charr. It’s probably because sexuality (straight, gay, or otherwise) doesn’t really come up much in game, so there’s really no reason to assume charr culture is anti-gay.

Of course, we’d have an example if Logan and Rytlock would just profess their love for each other :P

But that would be beastiality then, not homosexuality. or maybe homosexual beastiality?? Eeeek

Brings up an interesting point.

What is your moral objection to beastiality?
- The animal can’t give consent? (this one wouldn’t hold for Charr)
- The animal could get distressed? (this one also would weaken with Charr, Charr could still be kitten d but you’d have a clearer idea if/when you’d be distressing it)
- Its a different species? (this one still holds but the weakest, it doesn’t give much more of a reason than ‘just cause’ or ‘gross’ which isn’t really a valid moral reason imo)

Could have practical reasons.
- Possible disease transfer? (valid and holds for Charr)

Charr “culture” seems to put less focus on the breeding pair of children (kids being brought up in little packs away from parents) so that is something to consider for their relationships.

Charr “culture” though is heavily militaristic so it may be your duty to swell the warhost by breeding.

I would suggest Charr wouldn’t care who you enjoyed having sex with and having a relationship with but I would tend to expect they wanted you to at least breed to provide fresh troops (you could be gay but I think there may be some pressure to have sex with the opposite sex at least once to create the next generation of warriors).

Of course Charr should all be exterminated because they are a species who are interested only in war and so will turn on the civil races of Tyria when the dragons are done, best kill them now before they turn on us.

I would imagine since charr are a very practical society that generally doesn’t form strong bonds with partners that it would be more taboo for them. The charr were also very sexist in the past and sexism and homophobia seem to often show up together at least in human history, although I’m sure there are exceptions to that trend. Though if it can do the deed, then yes it can be gay so I’d say they exist but whether it’s accepted by charr society who knows.

In the case of male Charr, if their tackle is the same as a cat’s then I doubt anyone will want to have much of a go, inter- or intraspecies, except for female Charr.

(from a physically sexual viewpoint)

I don’t know about homosexuality, but a friend once pointed out he knew of a Norn and Charr couple npc in the game somewhere. No idea where they are though.

I would think that it’s actually more common in the Flame Legion, where males and female spend more time separated from each other. This may have given it a slightly bad reputation in the other Legions, possibly resulting in a “Don’t ask, don’t tell” state where it happens but isn’t openly talked about.

That could even be one of the things that lures some charr from the three main Legions into Flame, looking for acceptance. Or drives them to places like Lion’s Arch, where the culture is more open and accepting of some things that might be frowned upon in normal charr society.

There’s a widowed lesbian Charr in Diessa Plateau at [&BNwDAAA=]

Mechalibur.9618:

Hm, not that I can think of. There’s at least one for every other race, but I’m not recalling any charr. It’s probably because sexuality (straight, gay, or otherwise) doesn’t really come up much in game, so there’s really no reason to assume charr culture is anti-gay.

Of course, we’d have an example if Logan and Rytlock would just profess their love for each other :P

You’ll have to share that list because to my knowledge, the only gay characters are the aforementioned widowed charr, Kas/Jory, Caithe/Faolain (there are hints that Faolain also had a thing going with Sariel) and some nameless Sylvari scattered through the grove or in the sylvari personal story (who are never seen or heard from again).

Personally I’m still waiting for a gay male npc that isn’t some nameless Sylvari.

Palador.2170:

I would think that it’s actually more common in the Flame Legion, where males and female spend more time separated from each other. This may have given it a slightly bad reputation in the other Legions, possibly resulting in a “Don’t ask, don’t tell” state where it happens but isn’t openly talked about.

That could even be one of the things that lures some charr from the three main Legions into Flame, looking for acceptance. Or drives them to places like Lion’s Arch, where the culture is more open and accepting of some things that might be frowned upon in normal charr society.

“Fun” fact, Flame Legion have “breeding farms” where they keep their females.

well, i play nothing but male charr and would like to see something in game. not that not having it will upset me, but I would be happy to see it.

DarksunG.9537:

Dashingsteel.3410:

We got enough of this relationship stuff going on already. I hope Anet doesn’t spend time on bestiality/gay charr relations. Why do we have to have token representation of every possible sexual eccentricity?

I think they’ve shown they don’t care as much about the world & lore of Tyria as the do about social justice, so expect more.

Most people in this thread are discussing it from a Lore perspective, there’s no social justice just curiousity on how Charr society would be on the topic. Thats the fun of fantasy worlds you create the bones of a culture (which obviously can’t be as deep or detailed as our own) and people can then extrapolate.

I understand the desire to try and minimise interference from people pushing their own ideologies and agendas but sometimes interesting topics can overlap with what they’d push for, just enjoy the topic, how do you think the Charr would be about homosexuality and how would it manifest?

For the record they should still be exterminated.

To be honest, I don’t think Charr would care either way. They are a rather militant race, as long as it doesn’t interfere with the warband and their duties I don’t think many have too much issues.

However, with that fact; you aren’t very likely to hear Charr announce much about their relationships to begin with. It’s not really something they consider overly important or deserves too much attention. So, even if there was, not many would know likely due to the fact that it’s rarely ever a topic of discussion among them.

That and relationships in a warband don’t always go over well especially with deaths being quite aplenty in various regions for Charr. Having more likely of a chance of having stronger ties with those in their fahrar than one’s they’d develop personally as love interests.

Overall, gender and orientation has been of little issue in modern charr society. As seen with their warband makeup and armor designs being fairly unisex. Male or female, gay or straight. As long as you aren’t a gladium or deserter I don’t think they’d care and carry about their days.

Charr in general don’t have a strong care for relationships. Almost everything for them is pretty much a one-night stand for the greater population of charr – though having long-lasting relationships isn’t unknown for charr.

As for sexual orientation, we really don’t see any homosexuality outside of sylvari and humans in the game, afaik, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t such, and even our known cases can be counted on one hand – and most such cases are sylvari which have a long established case of “no gender roles in their society” – for sylvari, it’s not uncommon for males to wear dresses, homosexuality, even nudity is seem as natural and normal (they only wear clothing to help other races be at ease around them).

Ultimately there’s nothing to use to support to deny such a claim.

Coulter.2315:

Of course Charr should all be exterminated because they are a species who are interested only in war and so will turn on the civil races of Tyria when the dragons are done, best kill them now before they turn on us.

This reminds me of the poor Kogan in Mass Effect.

Save the Charr!!

Complementing what Konig Des Todes said, the difference from Greek and Roman military and the Charr military is that in Charr army there is a good mix of males and females so in a practical point of view, homosexuality doesn’t offer much advantage.
Sure there may have cases, but they don’t have the incentive or necessity the Greeks and Romans had.

Tommyknocker.6089:

My male cat loves rubbing himself against my leg when I get home from work and I’m a guy. And Charrs are a cat race.

On second thought that is probably not what you were asking.

nevermind

The cat rubs its hormones on you to mark you. Pretty much saying “I own this human”. True story.

As Konig said I don’t think we have enough evidence to know for sure.

I’ve never come across a definite example of a homosexual charr, but as we rarely see couples together and they tend to use gender-neutral words (usually mate if I remember correctly) when talking about their partners so there’s a good chance we could meet a homosexual charr and not even know it.

The thing which makes me think it’s unlikely is that they don’t seem to have romantic relationships – male and female charr will get together to have cubs and then part ways at the latest when the cubs enter the fahrar with no indication that it’s anything more than a practicality.

But, falling into behavioural biologist mode, it’s highly unlikely they mate with just anyone. They probably choose their mates based on a combination of physical characteristics and personality (and quite likely social standing given the importance they place on it). Given that homosexuality can occur in real life animals where traditional (IMO somewhat outdated) biology will tell us mate selection is purely practical I wouldn’t be at all surprised if some charr find themselves more attracted to members of the same sex and choose to pursue that.

But without definite examples or someone asking them about it we can’t say for sure.

Bigsexy.8302:

Tommyknocker.6089:

My male cat loves rubbing himself against my leg when I get home from work and I’m a guy. And Charrs are a cat race.

On second thought that is probably not what you were asking.

nevermind

The cat rubs its hormones on you to mark you. Pretty much saying “I own this human”. True story.

Yup.

I always find it amusing that cats use the same action to say both “I like this” and “This is mine”.

I wish I could ask them about it. I imagine they’d find it highly confusing that humans differentiate the two, and especially that we can like something and yet have no desire to possess it.

There are tons of NPC’s you don’t know the sexual orientation of. You can assume anything of any of them. Just like in real life. Most people don’t make a habit of meeting a new person and saying “Ok, before we converse together, what do you prefer to mate with?” I think unless otherwise stated by lore (which it has not) you can assume any race is capable of loving any gender. And just because none of them make a big spectacle of it doesn’t mean they don’t exist or are even in hiding.

Coulter.2315:

For the record they should still be exterminated.

Probably a Sylvari player. Step away from Mordremoth’s will!

Also, there’s the internet, if you need proof of the title. :P

Charr are animals, breed fight, sleep, eat, thats all you can get from their lore.
They dont care about sexuality, if charr wants to kitten something he will do even a goat.

Like others haver said, Charrs consider men and women more or less equal now, so I don’t see why they would shun on homosexuality (considering in most cases homophobia comes from male chauvinism).
and about them not having aring much for relatinships, I don’t know, I’ve read many npcs talking about their “mates” (wich could be male or female)

I would’ve kept this topic in the Lore section of the forum to prevent the more immature responses.

coso.9173:

Like others haver said, Charrs consider men and women more or less equal now, so I don’t see why they would shun on homosexuality (considering in most cases homophobia comes from male chauvinism).
and about them not having aring much for relatinships, I don’t know, I’ve read many npcs talking about their “mates” (wich could be male or female)

This is actually a great point that hasn’t been mentioned before, in Charr society there are no gender roles, you’re either strong or weak and that applies to either gender, so there’s no reason for homosexuality to be frowned upon. The Flame Legion is a different story though.

Whether Charr are biologically capable of being attracted to the same gender is still unknown though, but if Rytlock’s crush on Logan is any indication i’d say it’s likely.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

4
-You shouldn’t perceive random creatures as suitable mates or having attractive features, and if you do then the way your brain handles information is broken. Sorry to tell you this, but your pet goldfish is not people.

Frogs are people too! Have you never played Talos Principle? You probably should!

They really should make Rytlock and Logan a couple, just to make everyone freak out. If you don’t like it, why would you even care? Also the Charr are quite far from mere animals. They have a complex society and built whole cities.

I could actually see the charr being more inclined towards homophobia than other races because their attitude towards romantic relationships seems to be mainly practical.

A male and female charr will form a partnership in order to have cubs, which contributes more ‘soldiers’ to the Legions. Whereas a homosexual couple is never going to have kids (and wouldn’t even adopt since charr cubs are raised by the fahrar) so they’re not benefiting anyone except themselves.

On the other hand they do encourage and value strong social relationships, especially within warbands and legions. So maybe in that context they would be in favour of romantic relationships with either sex.

But this is all speculation on my part since it’s never discussed in-game.

Charr Dad from Honorless Gladium story path is super gay for that one dude that died, No one can tell me otherwise.

OtterPaws.2036:

Charr Dad from Honorless Gladium story path is super gay for that one dude that died, No one can tell me otherwise.

You know, that WOULD explain some of what happens in that story, with how your father wants to rescue the guy so much, and how the Legionnaire seems to not care for rescuing him at all. If there was some kind of love triangle going on, where one of the two dumped her for the other one, it would explain a lot.

Mitch.4781:

Mechalibur.9618:

Of course, we’d have an example if Logan and Rytlock would just profess their love for each other :P

But that would be beastiality then, not homosexuality. or maybe homosexual beastiality?? Eeeek

I wanted to come back and address this one, because it’s been bothering me.

Charr are not animals or beasts, they’re aliens. (Yes, I know it’s technically the humans that are the aliens, but the point still stands.) They are a sentient alien race, just like the Vulcans from Star Trek or any of the other near-human races from Sci-Fi.

You wouldn’t refer to a human/vulcan paring as bestiality, but there’s really not much difference between that and a human/charr pairing. Charr just remind you of animals due to looks, but that’s really judging a book by its cover (so to speak).

Charr, tengu, centaurs… These are all fully sentient races that just happen to have some animal-like features. Aliens from another world might look at humans the same way, if we happen to resemble some creature from their world, but that doesn’t make us just animals.

So, if such a relationship does happen in the game, can we please talk about it fairly, and not call it bestiality? I’d love to see a storyline where a charr/human couple have to deal with old prejudices, without the devs having to scrap the story due to bad press because of the misuse of the term.

Mechalibur.9618:

Hm, not that I can think of. There’s at least one for every other race, but I’m not recalling any charr. It’s probably because sexuality (straight, gay, or otherwise) doesn’t really come up much in game, so there’s really no reason to assume charr culture is anti-gay.

Of course, we’d have an example if Logan and Rytlock would just profess their love for each other :P

Bromance… makes the world a better place, even if it is furry Bromance…right?

That aside though, sexuality has come up a lot in GW, we have the Marjory/Kasmeer love affair which is lesbianism no matter what Anet choose to say it is in a Disney fashion. They touched in transgender issue as well (ok nor sexual context per se but is confirming on abandoning birthright sexual orientation for the opposite)

As a gay man myself , I think seeing Anet have given us the Kasmeer/ Marjory love story, I think its actually high time Anet DID create a homosexual male couple to equal the balance. Because to be totally honest, I looked on the female gay couple as a thrown off figment off some chauvinist straight mans fantasy. Straight from something you might find in a Charlie Sheen autobiography. It was totally cliche and cheap rather than a representation of addressing homosexuality in Tyria.

Modern media has enough examples of men in bars talking about the utmost fantasies and it would be a high percentage it will involve two girls.
Is it more acceptable in society to approach homosexuality with two females over two males because females don’t have “bits”?
Hence I cover a “Disney” representation of approaching such subjects.

I mean its a debate that could go on for sure, but yeah I am all for more positive gay male relationship examples in Tyria. Just please, not Lord Faren. We need normal positive examples, not self obsessed pretty boys whose only worry in life is the hairdresser :P
If I wanted that, I could just log into Youtube .

Palador.2170:

Mitch.4781:

Mechalibur.9618:

Of course, we’d have an example if Logan and Rytlock would just profess their love for each other :P

But that would be beastiality then, not homosexuality. or maybe homosexual beastiality?? Eeeek

I wanted to come back and address this one, because it’s been bothering me.

Charr are not animals or beasts, they’re aliens. (Yes, I know it’s technically the humans that are the aliens, but the point still stands.) They are a sentient alien race, just like the Vulcans from Star Trek or any of the other near-human races from Sci-Fi.

You wouldn’t refer to a human/vulcan paring as bestiality, but there’s really not much difference between that and a human/charr pairing. Charr just remind you of animals due to looks, but that’s really judging a book by its cover (so to speak).

Charr, tengu, centaurs… These are all fully sentient races that just happen to have some animal-like features. Aliens from another world might look at humans the same way, if we happen to resemble some creature from their world, but that doesn’t make us just animals.

So, if such a relationship does happen in the game, can we please talk about it fairly, and not call it bestiality? I’d love to see a storyline where a charr/human couple have to deal with old prejudices, without the devs having to scrap the story due to bad press because of the misuse of the term.

You hit the nail straight on the head with that, I’ve been bothered with that sentence and the subsequent discussion relating Charr to bestiality as well.
I mean, seriously? They are a sentient, evolved race, they are for all intent and pourposes people, only not humanoid-like. Would you call Asura-Human pairings (unlikely, but not impossible) bestiality? Or sylvari-human pairings having sex with a tree? :I
Come on. It’s a fictional universe, with fictional sentient races, all with their desires, and such.

Aside from that, I’d say even with females in the warband, sex can be seen as a way of bonding. They might not have the same situation, but it’s the same kind of ‘psychological’ support, especially if you consider a life passed in the constant possibility of harm/death. I’d say Charr wouldn’t have any problems with homosexuality, but they don’t have a concept of ‘long-term relationship’, more along the lines of “I want to get it on, you want to get it on, let’s do eet.”

For what it’s worth I once had an extended online argument with a few people who were adamant that human/elf pairings in DnD are bestiality. As, apparently are any other combinations of fantasy races and horse/donkey, donkey/zebra and lion/tiger ones in real life. So apparently it’s not that much of an uncommon viewpoint and nothing to do with the charr specifically.

The Wikipedia definition is that it’s any sexual act between a human and a non-human, but that only deals with real life and therefore doesn’t address the question of sentient non-human species.

I’m not sure if there is any consensus across different franchises on characters/real life peoples attitudes to interspecies relationships.

Danikat.8537:

I could actually see the charr being more inclined towards homophobia than other races because their attitude towards romantic relationships seems to be mainly practical.

A male and female charr will form a partnership in order to have cubs, which contributes more ‘soldiers’ to the Legions. Whereas a homosexual couple is never going to have kids (and wouldn’t even adopt since charr cubs are raised by the fahrar) so they’re not benefiting anyone except themselves.

On the other hand they do encourage and value strong social relationships, especially within warbands and legions. So maybe in that context they would be in favour of romantic relationships with either sex.

But this is all speculation on my part since it’s never discussed in-game.

This is what I’ve always thought. Charr don’t really care with romance, so it would be very egocentric for a charr to be homosexual because he will not help his legion on his natural duty , making homosexual Charr a shame for their warband/legion.

Although its not concrete proof, I found one (possible) Charr X Human relationship that ive been able to find in GW2. Unfortunately the NPCs are now gone, but I did get a screenie of the dialogue.

After the Battle of Lion’s Arch, you could find a Charr in the canal ward knelt down at a ruined house, talking about the death of somebody called “Gwynne”. The way he talks about her makes me think that it isn’t a pet, because of how intimate it is. I guess it could be a pet at a stretch, or even a Norn lover rather than a Human, but its the closest to a relationship with a non-Charr and a Charr ive been able to find.

Also, dating a Charr isn’t “bestiality”. They are anthropomorphs (anthros/furries), therefore not baseline animals. For anyone not clued-in, explicit material of such characters is not illegal. Its not on the same legal plain as bestiality in any way, shape or form. (Talking from my experience with the UK’s legality.)

Also, bestiality might be completely legal and morally acceptable in Tyria for all we know. The topic has never been discussed. (and hopefully it won’t ever be discussed.)

Concerning how approved of homosexuality is within the Charr’s legions, its not really covered with the exception of Fronis Darkstone and her deceased mate, but the fact their relationship existed, shows that there is some level of acceptance.

My personal opinion, is that Charr will likely be expected to have cubs, to keep the numbers of troops high, but Centurions are known to have a strong dislike for wasted resources, and soldiers are seen as “resources” to the Charr, and like a war-machine, they have to be maintained. They have to eat, train and maintain themselves so they can perform best. Sex is an important part of maintaining health, and a lot of the benefits from sex is your mental health. If a male Charr for example, is sleeping with female Charr to have cubs, sure, hes maintaining the legion’s numbers, but he won’t get any mental stimulation out of it if hes a homosexual, therefore im more than sure his Legionnaire/Centurion won’t mind him sleeping with another male if it keeps him happy and healthy. and besides the health/mental benefits, a gay man myself, i’d be more than a little bit distressed if I was being forced to sleep with only women, and it’d more than likely take it’s toll. -shivers-

In short, being a utilitarian, military-based society isn’t all about keeping a high troop count. Meaningful sex is a necessary part of keeping your troops in good shape.

File attached is the dialogue regarding the Charr worker and Gwynne that I mentioned earlier. Once again, this isn’t concrete proof for Human on Charr relationships, since its only an implication as best, but who knows. It might be a subtle lore nugget that was hidden in LA at the time.

On an unrelated note, I’d be totally cool with a Charr relationship in GW2 if Anet wanted to do it. They are essentially just humans with fur and tails. Rox and Braham maybe? Rytlock and Logan?

This topic has come up once or twice before this, (no I don’t have links.) and I remember reading two things in one such thread. The first thing was that there a homosexual couple, but I don’t remember who or where they are. Second was that all charr, no matter their sexuality, have sex with their mate once and then they are done. In other words, they are a species of one night stands, both kitten - and hetero- sexualy. I guess bisexualy can be added to the list, but you get the point.

OtterPaws.2036:

Charr Dad from Honorless Gladium story path is super gay for that one dude that died, No one can tell me otherwise.

I was thinking the same npc. Sure there was no real evidence to say he was gay but he was sure hell bent on recusing his warband friend.

Renkencen.6127:

OtterPaws.2036:

Charr Dad from Honorless Gladium story path is super gay for that one dude that died, No one can tell me otherwise.

I was thinking the same npc. Sure there was no real evidence to say he was gay but he was sure hell bent on recusing his warband friend.

Well, warbands are what the charr consider as their families, (I pulling this from Edge of Destiny) so those two npcs are more like brothers than friends. Tell me, if your brother or sister was taken captive, would you want to same him or her at any cost, and if so, does that make you homosexual? I say no.

Fun fact. The male charr player character can be homosexual (or at least hit on other charr males) in the personal story. In one of the early charr story missions “Rage supression” there’s this npc who you can compliment and he’ll get embarassed. Mind you, this dialogue is identical wether you play a male or female, but it’s still fun to hit on other fellow fuzzballs nonetheless, specially considering said NPC’s name is Strodum Crush maw

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rage_Suppression (scroll down to dialogue section)

Yojimaru.4980:

There’s a widowed lesbian Charr in Diessa Plateau at [&BNwDAAA=]

Mechalibur.9618:

Hm, not that I can think of. There’s at least one for every other race, but I’m not recalling any charr. It’s probably because sexuality (straight, gay, or otherwise) doesn’t really come up much in game, so there’s really no reason to assume charr culture is anti-gay.

Of course, we’d have an example if Logan and Rytlock would just profess their love for each other :P

You’ll have to share that list because to my knowledge, the only gay characters are the aforementioned widowed charr, Kas/Jory, Caithe/Faolain (there are hints that Faolain also had a thing going with Sariel) and some nameless Sylvari scattered through the grove or in the sylvari personal story (who are never seen or heard from again).

Personally I’m still waiting for a gay male npc that isn’t some nameless Sylvari.

Palador.2170:

I would think that it’s actually more common in the Flame Legion, where males and female spend more time separated from each other. This may have given it a slightly bad reputation in the other Legions, possibly resulting in a “Don’t ask, don’t tell” state where it happens but isn’t openly talked about.

That could even be one of the things that lures some charr from the three main Legions into Flame, looking for acceptance. Or drives them to places like Lion’s Arch, where the culture is more open and accepting of some things that might be frowned upon in normal charr society.

“Fun” fact, Flame Legion have “breeding farms” where they keep their females.

Also, Cymbel and Nia in the Fields of Ruin! I always help them save thier pups :-D

Palador.2170:

Mitch.4781:

Mechalibur.9618:

Of course, we’d have an example if Logan and Rytlock would just profess their love for each other :P

But that would be beastiality then, not homosexuality. or maybe homosexual beastiality?? Eeeek

I wanted to come back and address this one, because it’s been bothering me.

Charr are not animals or beasts, they’re aliens. (Yes, I know it’s technically the humans that are the aliens, but the point still stands.) They are a sentient alien race, just like the Vulcans from Star Trek or any of the other near-human races from Sci-Fi.

You wouldn’t refer to a human/vulcan paring as bestiality, but there’s really not much difference between that and a human/charr pairing. Charr just remind you of animals due to looks, but that’s really judging a book by its cover (so to speak).

Charr, tengu, centaurs… These are all fully sentient races that just happen to have some animal-like features. Aliens from another world might look at humans the same way, if we happen to resemble some creature from their world, but that doesn’t make us just animals.

So, if such a relationship does happen in the game, can we please talk about it fairly, and not call it bestiality? I’d love to see a storyline where a charr/human couple have to deal with old prejudices, without the devs having to scrap the story due to bad press because of the misuse of the term.

The main differences between these two examples (GW2 and Star Trek) are: reproductive viability (often the core of the morals of the day regarding sexual taboos); and ‘otherness’.

Humans, Vulcans, Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians (etc) can all successfully breed with each other, and it’s established in lore that we’re all made of pretty much the same stuff, with only minor differences.

That wouldn’t be the case for most of the species in GW2 I imagine?

And since the ‘otherness’ isn’t that ‘other’ in ST, the different races can often look more exotic and attractive to each other (like many feel about Elves). Attractive rather than repulsive (eg Human and Charr, or Human and Asura… probably less so Human and Sylvari given the more superficial similarities, despite the greater biological differences).

Now, the likes of yourself may have overcome these parts of yourself (assuming for the sake of argument that this is a good thing), but it’s important to give a thought to why others may not be able to do so quite so easily: You’re dealing with some pretty deep and hardwired stuff here.

Mechalibur.9618:

Of course, we’d have an example if Logan and Rytlock would just profess their love for each other :P

That why logan is a runaway master.

mzt.3270:

As a gay man myself , I think seeing Anet have given us the Kasmeer/ Marjory love story, I think its actually high time Anet DID create a homosexual male couple to equal the balance. Because to be totally honest, I looked on the female gay couple as a thrown off figment off some chauvinist straight mans fantasy. Straight from something you might find in a Charlie Sheen autobiography. It was totally cliche and cheap rather than a representation of addressing homosexuality in Tyria.

Modern media has enough examples of men in bars talking about the utmost fantasies and it would be a high percentage it will involve two girls.
Is it more acceptable in society to approach homosexuality with two females over two males because females don’t have “bits”?
Hence I cover a “Disney” representation of approaching such subjects.

I mean its a debate that could go on for sure, but yeah I am all for more positive gay male relationship examples in Tyria. Just please, not Lord Faren. We need normal positive examples, not self obsessed pretty boys whose only worry in life is the hairdresser :P
If I wanted that, I could just log into Youtube .

While the primary subject matter of this thread does make me chuckle a little bit (in a good way), I wanted to add that I’ve felt this way about this particular topic as well for quite some time now. It’s all well and good to be socially progressive, but being male I can’t really help but wonder how well I’m actually being represented. It seems like the only prominent displays of homosexual relationships in this game are all female, which kind of skews things toward the idea that it’s less actual representation of gay relationships and maybe a bit more of “oh if it’s two girls then it’s okay because it’s hot”.

Knowing that Anet supports LGBT rights enough to have transgender employees that are (hopefully) free from discrimination, I doubt that this is actually the case. But image matters. It’s not always what actually is, but rather what people see. There are gay men too, not just women. If Anet wants to stand up and proudly show that they support the cause, it would be much more meaningful to myself, and surely others too, if they represented all facets of gay relationships, male and female, in the game.

Rox is.
He’s a male with a female skin.

Where this this come from…..? lol

If you want to explain homosexuality and past norms of the military to the internet I always use the 300 benchmark.
The historically accurate direction of the film 300 would have had:
-Gay men fighting a straight persian guy
-the beautiful ‘queen’ would have been a woman dressed up like a man…..the sex scene would have been in the dark so he couldn’t tell the difference.
-And they would be fighting to protect their country which was a dictatorship (2 kings actually) rather than ‘freedom’ or ‘democracy’.

At the end of the day, they shoulda built a wall.

Do charr see love as a thing though from what i seen to them its more about reintroducing there “love” is more of a comrade thing in arms or work but not in romantic love. So maybe charr are more asexual in romantic love and look to more action of what others do as a means of non-romantic love.

Make a male Charr Mesmer.

The closest I’ve seen is an implied relationship between Crea Irontooth and Crusader Ferrah in CoF Path 1.

AsurasRCute.4136:

The main differences between these two examples (GW2 and Star Trek) are: reproductive viability (often the core of the morals of the day regarding sexual taboos); and ‘otherness’.

Humans, Vulcans, Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians (etc) can all successfully breed with each other, and it’s established in lore that we’re all made of pretty much the same stuff, with only minor differences.

That wouldn’t be the case for most of the species in GW2 I imagine?

And since the ‘otherness’ isn’t that ‘other’ in ST, the different races can often look more exotic and attractive to each other (like many feel about Elves). Attractive rather than repulsive (eg Human and Charr, or Human and Asura… probably less so Human and Sylvari given the more superficial similarities, despite the greater biological differences).

Now, the likes of yourself may have overcome these parts of yourself (assuming for the sake of argument that this is a good thing), but it’s important to give a thought to why others may not be able to do so quite so easily: You’re dealing with some pretty deep and hardwired stuff here.

As for the reproductive viability, they normally can’t, that’s correct. But some of those races in Star Trek can’t either without help, and I’m sure that if a bunch of asura bent their minds to it, they’d find a way to make human/charr work.

But let’s leave humans out of it for a minute, and look at charr and norn instead. Most people have no problem with seeing norn as attractive, there’s even a NPC female voice line where she comments on how attractive she found a norn man. There are stories where humans claim to have norn blood in their family trees. And yet, norn and charr are pretty similar for the purpose of this discussion. Both evolved on Tyria, both bigger than humans, both just as alien to humans (biologically speaking). And with their culture and their gift for shape shifting, one could even say that norn can be more beastial than charr are.

The only real difference is that, most of the time, norn look more human. That isn’t the right standard to judge this by, surely.

A bit of a tangent here, but I have to ask: why humanize Charr?

The thing about fantasy (or alien, in sci-fi settings) species is that they should be different from humans in both appearance and thought process. Like how Sylvari don’t have a solid concept of sexuality (given the whole lack of reproductive functions) and are more likely to have “homosexual” pairings, why would it be strange for a different species to literally be incapable of understanding and exhibiting homosexual behavior (despite having reproductive functions)?

Another way to look at it is that humans are one of the few species in the world that mate for life, we’re also one of the few species that mate for pleasure, while every other species just does it when the season kicks in and focus on surviving the rest of the year. If Charr evolved from a species that doesn’t mate for life or for pleasure, then the concept of homosexual – or even heterosexual – relationships would be alien to them. To them, a relationship is what you create with a band, defining a relationship on reproductive function would be like defining a relationship on what foods you eat.

(No offense to foodies out there)

I don’t think it makes sense to project human views onto another species in another universe.

Tyria is actually quite a tiny world and there is basically one Charr culture and a single dissident, counter culture – just like all the others.

Human attitudes toward homosexuality, marriage, monogamy, polygamy, etc are quite different throughout the world and are likely due, in large part, to the different sorts of threats and dangers that each culture faced through the ages.

It’s also over simplistic to imagine that every individual in every culture adheres to cultural norms. Some cultures punish deviants severely – there are still countries in earth that execute homosexuals – some cultures might have only minor to moderate social consequences. (critical clarifying edit: if a homosexual is being punished by society, it’s because they are perceived as a deviant, I’m not using that label myself)

The other thing to consider is that scientifically, we do not know the degree to which human homosexuality is the result of environment/choice or the result of genetics. The current best guess seems to be that it’s some of both.

Whatever the case it is with humans, it’s not reasonable to assume it would be the same with Charr. Maybe there are homosexual Charr, maybe there are not, but it seems very simplistic to just imagine their motivation is on par with modern humans in cat suits.