Guild Wars 2

So I’ve heard a off a few people now, especially in PvP and in the forums, that some builds are called ‘Cheese’ builds. But what exactly is a cheese build?

It’s a build that allows you to be effective with little to no effort.

A “cheese” build is whatever builds an elitest doesn’t like for ‘reasons’.

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s a build that allows you to be effective with little to no effort.

This is the real answer, the first answer is a kitten answer.

Cheese builds are builds that you can play fairly safely and win in most cases, often with an easy means of escape. The context of a cheese build changes depending on the situation but is most commonly used for builds that are too strong in small scale fights. Condition mesmer is a prime example of this.

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s a build that allows you to be effective with little to no effort.

This ^

ronpierce.2760:

Cheese builds are builds that you can play fairly safely and win in most cases, often with an easy means of escape. The context of a cheese build changes depending on the situation but is most commonly used for builds that are too strong in small scale fights. Condition mesmer is a prime example of this.

Yah, I have to agree with you on this as well, the Power (pew pew two two) Rangers were another stellar example of this.

Thing I have noticed is that they are often built around capitalizing upon some unbalanced game mechanic and thus end up being one-trick-pony’s.

Something that should be removed from the game because I don’t like it.

Eh…. The game gives you many options just like other MMOs. Someone figures out the best build and everyone uses them. Those that lose to these “cheesy” builds then come here to vent. What people also have to understand is that not everyone has ascended everything and can get owned quickly and effectively.

Also PvP is for the quick not the dead. Keybinding is important especially with a multi button gaming mouse that makes it look like the other player is effortlessly playing. There are many more factors that come into play than just the “cheesy” build.

Well I have been testing out a thief perma evade condi cheeze build in pvp but I have the realization that a thief perma evade condi build might be op in pve and very effective at soloing bosses.

evade spam condi thief has been a thing since day 1, and yes, it is quite effective, but also the dps is notably lower than other thief builds

reikken.4961:

evade spam condi thief has been a thing since day 1, and yes, it is quite effective, but also the dps is notably lower than other thief builds

With lotus it is aoe so there is nice wave clear involved.

Yeah, the AoE can be good, but the dps isn’t great. Impaling Lotus can do about 4k, plus another 2.5k if something stands in the tiny caltrops it drops, and Death Blossom can do 10k. And this is over a long duration. Meanwhile Bound can do 7k instantly, and Vault 15k, and with strong autoattacks in between (vs 2200 armor).

it isn’t bad, but the dps can be a lot higher

A cheese build is a build that’s too Gouda to be true.

Did he just say, “Blessed are the cheesemakers?”

(for Just a Flesh Wound)

A “Cheese” build is a build made by the Skritts and Cheese lovers.

Elitists hate them because they don’t want to admit losing to obscure builds that
generally doesn’t work.

Cheese builds goes well when you consume “Cheese Pizza”and “Cheeseburger”
food consumable pre-fight.

(jk)

replace the word “cheap” in this article with the word “cheese” and you basically have it

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Usually cheese build are build that counter the current meta allowing you to be effective with little to no effort and granting you tons of hatred from player that you counter. This kind of build work great until you reach a level where people have enough personal skill and teamplay to cover the overall weaknesses of their character build.

Cheap, easy, effective. A perfect example is the Bunker Chrono that we had back in the first season. It was super easy to play, with hardly any skill required and it was good. Bad players were simply not dying because the build itself was too broken. Another example is cheesy kitten like the condi reapers.

I’ve always thought it was a contraction of “cheap and easy”.

That sounds like a good thing to me but I can see how others may feel differently.

ArchonWing.9480:

Something that should be removed from the game because I don’t like it.

Still, that is how the game is ment (that is all gw2 is about) to play, for some reason Anet makes them and only touch them when many rumble on that build, and much more play it.

Even on CS and other mmo i listen players doing gw2 fail jokes and only bad players keep playign it… that is how the game is known… saddly :|

Just look how Anet manage pvp, to avoid balance or work on classes they remove trinkets to hide how broken classes are.

A cheese build is something like this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAoYVn8lCdmilOBGNB8PhlWCb+EuCfhelh2QKSLAcAWAA-TpxCQBW4QAcwyAA4IAcsTAAV2fYaPAAA

Here’s how you play it. Find a target by themselves defending a point. Cast your damaging utility skills. Spam dodge and death blossom. That’s pretty much it.

A cheese build is one that depends solely on the ‘magic cheese’ working…. if it works, you are OP, if you miss or the target has a way to counter it, you are worthless.

A PvE example would be fighting a boss that has only melee attacks and no condition removal by kiting him while stacking tons of bleeds from range.

Aeolus.3615:

ArchonWing.9480:

Something that should be removed from the game because I don’t like it.

Still, that is how the game is ment (that is all gw2 is about) to play, for some reason Anet makes them and only touch them when many rumble on that build, and much more play it.

Even on CS and other mmo i listen players doing gw2 fail jokes and only bad players keep playign it… that is how the game is known… saddly :|

Just look how Anet manage pvp, to avoid balance or work on classes they remove trinkets to hide how broken classes are.

They probably do have some merit where, sure, Gw2 isn’t exactly the most skillful game and balance is highly questionable and way too knee jerk and too slow at the same time. Esports is just a pipe dream.

On the other hand, I’m more annoyed by the common mentality that when the first time one encounters hardship, their first response is to demand nerfs. Thus, I don’t care too much for the common depiction of so called skill, as a lot of them probably aren’t playing to win anyways.

This doesn’t mean one can’t comment on imbalance and bad design because there’s plenty of that, but at the same time a lot of it must be taken with salt.

Cheese is often something that works very well in a relatively small area, as well as being something not usually done

Like something that wins 90% -100% of the time but only vs a small % of player’s youll actually run into.

This doesnt have to be a build, it can also be a playstyle or specific play.

For example, here is an example of Cheese in league of legends:

https://youtu.be/uBORCUQ8jyY?t=53s

The play wasnt standard and required little skill, however it instantly killed his opponent.

One example in guild wars 2 I could think of is the old warrior Mace F1 stun and then frenzy+hundred blades. Most people will have some kind of way to get out of it or mitigate the damage, however some people might get caught and it will devastate them. That is cheese. Even more so if his entire play style evolved around that combo.

Any build that counters your own build

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s a build that allows you to be effective with little to no effort.

I found this the most useful answer.

However, I will point out that it seems that some players do act rather sour about builds that are ‘effective with little to no effort’.

Doesn’t that just mean it’s an efficient build?

penelopehannibal.8947:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s a build that allows you to be effective with little to no effort.

I found this the most useful answer.

However, I will point out that it seems that some players do act rather sour about builds that are ‘effective with little to no effort’.

Doesn’t that just mean it’s an efficient build?

Efficient yes but makes the game incredibly boring.

If you play multiplayer FPS games, How much fun do you have playing against a team where one of the players just spams his gernade launcher? Using builds that require little to no effort is on that same level

“Cheese” is a complaint leveraged at players who successfully use weaknesses in a game’s design to win, and blame others for playing efficiently rather than blaming the developers for being bad at game design.

Certain players develop strict e-honor codes that they then expect all other players to adhere to, and become upset when they do not, despite the fact that the rules of the game are clearly laid out and it is the game, not the players, that is creating these frustrating experiences.

They are often viewed as being “not competitive” or “not skilled” builds despite succeeding at the one metric that the game rewards and winning encounters or matches.

Or, the TLDR version:

A cheese build is a build that is better than your build, that you refuse to adjust to.

PopeUrban.2578:

“Cheese” is a complaint leveraged at players who successfully use weaknesses in a game’s design to win, and blame others for playing efficiently rather than blaming the developers for being bad at game design.

Certain players develop strict e-honor codes that they then expect all other players to adhere to, and become upset when they do not, despite the fact that the rules of the game are clearly laid out and it is the game, not the players, that is creating these frustrating experiences.

They are often viewed as being “not competitive” or “not skilled” builds despite succeeding at the one metric that the game rewards and winning encounters or matches.

Or, the TLDR version:

A cheese build is a build that is better than your build, that you refuse to adjust to.

Not really true, because most cheese builds are dependent upon an often unintended out come and this the build is built off of taking advantage of a oversight by the designers. It’s not viewed as being efficient, it’s viewed as mechanics abuse, and thus often on the chopping block to become worthless once they get fixed. So it’s never worth it to invest any real effort into those kinds of cheese build.

In the cases were developers said it was intended, the builds quickly saturated the market, and pretty much self imploded.

A cheese build is any build that is easier to complain about than it is to learn how to defeat.

penelopehannibal.8947:

So I’ve heard a off a few people now, especially in PvP and in the forums, that some builds are called ‘Cheese’ builds. But what exactly is a cheese build?

Any build that give more than what you have to sacrifice for it.

You do great damage? It should cost you great defense.
You are unkillable? You should not be able to kill anything.

If you are unkillable and can still do very good damage you more than likely smell like cheese. What? You think most ppl in pvp go for these lame skilless builds thinking they are good? You are right…

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s a build that allows you to be effective with little to no effort.

redcomyn.4651:

A “cheese” build is whatever builds an elitest doesn’t like for ‘reasons’.

It’s both.

• People trying to be objective reserve the term for low-effort/high-reward, i.e. as easy as slicing cheese with a vorpal blade. (From Lewis Carrol: “Snicker-snack, he left it dead, and with its cheese head, he went galumphing back,” or something like that.)
• Some less-skilled players will try to disparage the builds of others, rather than admit that they have been outplayed (or, at least, don’t know how to counter certain build types). It’s kind of a “those grapes I can’t reach are sour anyhow” sort of approach to trash talk.