Guild Wars 2

Boogiepop Void.6473:

I really think this needs to be addressed; it leaves Sylvari fans feeling left out of the new group dynamic and seems to marginalize the race that was so core to the story. It also leaves the Sylvari elements of the story feeling left out; just imagine what would have gone on with a Sylvari member during The Call that instead got addressed only from the outside.

Surely Sylvari fans will be the Sylvari in the new group, the PC is the leader of the group, after all? It looks like Canach and Caithe will be leaving for now but just because they are gone for now doesn’t mean they won’t return.

Every important Story focused on Sylvari.
1) Truly and Epic start with personal story began with A Light in the Darkness where? In The Grove. With who? Pale Tree and Trahearne. It was vision about everything what will happen and what cannot happen, it is why this was important.
2) At end of personal story- Source of Orr. Who started to clean Orr? Trahearne.
3) Who started LS1? Scarlet. Scarlet=Caera=2ndborn Sylvari. Whose Machine spreads Ley Line Energy which awakened Mordremoth? The Breachmaker by Scarlet.
4) (LS2) Who destroyed ship in Dry Top? Aerin- Sylvari.
5) What started 1st Expansion? Taking Glint’s Egg, by who? Caithe.
6) How ended LS2? Birth new Dragon. What was the reason? Ley Line from Trahearne’s Head. (Trahearne- let me remind you- was Sylvari) Who started every important and breakthroughs parts????

The Answer Is- Sylvari…

Once Zojja said: “As always, sylvari, your intent is good, but your math skills are subpar.” Sylvari are trying to make everything good, but reasons are generally bad, very bad. And Quote from Rytlock: “You can’t trust Sylvari. They belong to the Dragon now.”- We cannot trust, because They made a lot of mistakes.

The Result Is: ANet likes to use Sylvari for make dirty job.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

1) The biconics are not mary sue characters. May Sues are defined by a lack of flaws and how everything always goes their way.

It could be worse, but there is a bit of Mary Sue going on with the biconics, especially Kasmeer and Taimi.

While both of them are introduced as characters with some degree of challenge in their life or background, rarely does either actually face setbacks or have to deal with compromise or challenge as a result.

While Kasmeer is introduced as losing her status and class, she doesn’t look like a street urchin, she remains one of the most elegant characters in the game. She landed rather comfortably right away with a job and a home so we never see her truly struggle after losing her wealth and social status. Even a show like Two Broke Girls is a more realistic portrayal of the life of someone like Kasmeer who loses everything and is thrust into a lower class without the upbringing giving her the skills to handle that. We are told she lost her wealth and her security but all we ever see is a beautiful woman living comfortably in a world where that’s not a realistic outcome.

Secondary to this, or perhaps even worse, the only demonstration of her loss of social status is a random person doesn’t announce her with a title at a social function. We see she still has a relationship with Logan, Captain of the Seraph and the Queen’s partner, we see she has a relationship with Anise, and she even joins the royal escort in the World Summit that Kasmeer herself helped negotiate by writing a letter directly to the Pale Tree. The gravity of losing your social status and your class is completely lost when the reality is Kasmeer has privileged access to some of the most powerful people in Tyria but her background is supposed to suggest the opposite.

Why write that a character is an alcoholic if you’re never going to show that character struggle with their alcoholism? Kasmeer’s flaws are really faux flaws – superficially they make her sound interesting but throughout the story they are barely present. Which is more interesting – an alcoholic that tells you they are an alcoholic but never in the story does that present a challenge for them, or one that loses their family and job because they couldn’t control their drinking? Kasmeer is the former, it’s window dressing but it’s not her lived in reality.

With no field experience prior to her introduction, Kasmeer holds her next to seasoned fighters like Braham, Marjory and Rox, going as far as to surpass them during the season one finale with Mesmer Sue powers. She does this multiple times throughout the story, including being specifically summoned herself by some authority on mesmers because of how fantastic a mesmer she is.

It’s a similar theme across many of the biconics – Rox is the lowest class of charr but has privileged access to one of the highest ranking charr, Rytlock. She gets the honour of ambassador to Kryta for the Queen’s Jubilee and she’s trusted with important tasks such as taking on Scarlet. Even after disobeying orders, she retains privileged access and has more autonomy than most people would in a military culture like the charr. She isn’t stationed on watch duty, she doesn’t have to clean out the cow dung, she isn’t “shipped off to Siberia” as a punishment, she continues to be a part of the charr military hierarchy while working side by side with some of the most elite people in Tyria.

When bad things happen, the consequences are either superficial or short lived, or the bad things happen to people around them. Marjory’s sister’s death is a bad thing that happened to Belinda not Marjory, if Marjory had become an alcoholic in her grief, or a ruthless necromancer indiscriminately killing sylvari to take down Mordremoth – then she would have real flaws, all we see did was disappear for an episode and act slightly more suspicious of sylvari than everyone else.

The flaws these characters possess hold little to no power in their lives, it’s just window dressing to give the appearance of a more compelling character. The characters themselves rub shoulders with important people, get to go on important missions, are successful at almost everything they do, and unlike Destiny’s Edge – they haven’t paid a price like the defeat against Kralkatorrik and death of Snaff. The idea itself isn’t bad, the execution just didn’t utilise it. Their flaws don’t weigh them down, they rarely challenge or obstruct them, they act as window dressing to make it seem like these people are exceptional because they accomplish things even with “flaws”. That’s why they come off as Mary Sue to many people.

Hm, did I miss something? Why do people like Canach so much? :O

I don’t see the need for a new name. It’s still Destiny’s Edge. Van Halen didn’t change their name when Sammy Hagar joined. Journey still calls themselves Journey.

Mea.5491:

Hm, did I miss something? Why do people like Canach so much? :O

Personally, it’s not that I like Canach, but I LOVE his interactions with Anise.

I think they have set Canach up very well to be the Sylvari part of DE2. He was with us throughout HoT.

He may work for Anise, but our characters work for the pact and whatever order we chose yet we are still part of DE2. Why couldn’t Canach be also?

Also, Canach is the anti-Trahearne. It seems that Canach is liked as much as Trahearne was hated. Why wouldn’t they put him on our team? Making the player base happy wouldn’t be a bad thing right?

I don’t know. He is weird and makes suspicious. I like every Sylvari- but not Nightmare Courtier, Aerin and Canach.
Caithe is not bad, but her history is horrible.

all of the 3 options are personally junk to me and dont fit really well.
one more generic and boring/unfitting than the one above/before.

If I would have been responsible for the 3 Options, I would have let people vote over these 3 Names instead:

• 1st) The Paragons of Faith

(As prime example for a leading organization the reforms and reinforces under their new flag the Pact Army and reunites them stronger than ever before now in hard times after defeating Modremoth, where still large parts of the former Pact Army that was originally lead by Pact Marshall Trahearne lives now under mistrust towards the Sylvari – the Paragons of Faith step in now to reforge the bonds of faith that the five grand races of Tyria had once towards each other with the help of us, the former Pact Commander which takes ovfer now the full and lonely lead (what we players actually wanted from begin on as there were tons of people unhappy basically with Trahearner always “stealing us basically the show”)

• 2nd) The Dragoons

This as some kind of Option for those who would like to see our group of Heroes becoming some kind of special “Dragon Elimination Elite Squad” called the “Dragoons”, powerful and honored by all races of the former Pact Army “Dragon Knights/Slayers” which guard Tyria against the thread of the Elder Dragons and their Minions that have collected already alot of Battle Experience against them in combat which are from now on basicaly the new Pact Armies “Head” that works in itself like a “Council” with each of its Members working for something specific in what they are best in.

• 3rd The Oathkeepers

This is something I’d like to chose, as an option of our group of heroes should kind of step into the footprints of Destiny’s Edge as a “Guild” with Oathkeepers being their Guild Name, as everyone of them as sworn basically for themself some kinds of oaths , be it for revenge of their lost beloved ones, be it simply to protect their homeland or for whatever else for reasons they have sworn themselfs oaths to do everythign they can do that stands in their might to defeat everythign and anything, that might threaten Tyria as a whole, be it Dragons, be it demons, be it undeads or other criminal organizations and cults from the past that might be short before to rise up again most likely lke the White Mantle an d its cultists that follow them.

All of these 3 do I think are much better options, than those borign 3 generic things that Anet lets us choose here.
Don’t understand me wrong, I appreaciate it very much that Anets lets us even at all choose for the name of those character’s group for the upcoming next season of the Living Story, but personally I expect from anet a bit more, lets say it mildly … “creativity”, than these 3 options that they have given us

I consider Canach a part of the new team in the same way I consider Vegeta part of the Goku family.

jheryn.8390:

He may work for Anise, but our characters work for the pact and whatever order we chose yet we are still part of DE2. Why couldn’t Canach be also?

Because he went and stirred up the karka to attack innocent people and tried to murder everyone?

The reason he is out of jail atm (or even life spared), is because of Anise and to protect the Queen. The reason he even joined us in the first place was to stop us from touching a decoy mordrem set to explode, after already having infiltrated the Pact. After that, he just….stuck around for some reason…

Serophous.9085:

Because he went and stirred up the karka to attack innocent people and tried to murder everyone?

The reason he is out of jail atm (or even life spared), is because of Anise and to protect the Queen. The reason he even joined us in the first place was to stop us from touching a decoy mordrem set to explode, after already having infiltrated the Pact. After that, he just….stuck around for some reason…

Well, 1. If he is still so terrible why would Anise send him to help, and why when free would he actually not just run away? and 2. He has mentioned in round about ways that he sees things differently now. Is he not allowed to redeem himself?

Canach is one of the few NPCs I can stand, he’d definitely make a good addition to the team. Loved his dry humor in the HoT story.

Lame name options are lame.

jheryn.8390:

Serophous.9085:

Because he went and stirred up the karka to attack innocent people and tried to murder everyone?

The reason he is out of jail atm (or even life spared), is because of Anise and to protect the Queen. The reason he even joined us in the first place was to stop us from touching a decoy mordrem set to explode, after already having infiltrated the Pact. After that, he just….stuck around for some reason…

Well, 1. If he is still so terrible why would Anise send him to help, and why when free would he actually not just run away? and 2. He has mentioned in round about ways that he sees things differently now. Is he not allowed to redeem himself?

Anise is cunning and can usually predict one’s actions. I wouldn’t be surprised though, if there is something on canach to keep him in line. If anything, Anise more than likely sent him to “help”, then report back any important information he learned, like, lets say, a certain egg…

As for redeeming himself, yes, he can do that, and I do believe he is on the path to do so. The thing is though, I feel he’ll answer to Anise first and then the commander.

Serophous.9085:

Anise is cunning and can usually predict one’s actions. I wouldn’t be surprised though, if there is something on canach to keep him in line. If anything, Anise more than likely sent him to “help”, then report back any important information he learned, like, lets say, a certain egg…

As for redeeming himself, yes, he can do that, and I do believe he is on the path to do so. The thing is though, I feel he’ll answer to Anise first and then the commander.

Honestly, I don’t care if he does report back. DE2 is working toward a better Tyria, so who cares what he reports? Nothing to hide and there is nothing DE is trying to hide.

I think the more time he spends with DE2 the more he will redeem himself and the more compassion he will gain. As long as he doesn’t loose the snarky banter.

Aww man, Anet should have followed in the footsteps of NERC with a poll open to submissions

The apostrophe in Dragon’s Watch could refer to Glint?
Maybe they’re working in the memory of Glint or something.

I would have liked something continuing the Destiny’s Edge name.

Maybe… Destiny’s Child? And then they eventually disband and then like Braham goes on to become an incredibly awesome hero, and everyone else kinda just fades… and they try to stay afloat by becoming judges on e.g. Tyria’s Got Talent. Rox and Rytlock get put in the circus because they’re savage animals…

I think a Sylvari might be nice for multicultural reasons.

Canach was like… the only member of the team who revived me during the HoT storyline. Braham did occasionally, but Canach would always go out of his way to revive me. Marjory was seriously the worst. Is she even programmed to revive? She literally just stands there and is completely useless. I know she’s a Necromancer, but I think she’s a disgraceful human being.

Anyway, yeah… I always thought it would be nice to have one of each race and one of each profession. To be a really multicultural team… Not a team that discriminates against other races or professions.

However, I do feel that we’ve had Sylvari shoved down our throats. In addition to contributing to our vegetable intake, Sylvari keep getting shoehorned into everything.

I do think that the team needs a Sylvari though, for sake of balance. If you can have two savage beasts on the team, we can at least have a semi-competent tree. Even with salad for brains, I’m sure they could probably do something useful before wilting.

jheryn.8390:

Serophous.9085:

Anise is cunning and can usually predict one’s actions. I wouldn’t be surprised though, if there is something on canach to keep him in line. If anything, Anise more than likely sent him to “help”, then report back any important information he learned, like, lets say, a certain egg…

As for redeeming himself, yes, he can do that, and I do believe he is on the path to do so. The thing is though, I feel he’ll answer to Anise first and then the commander.

Honestly, I don’t care if he does report back. DE2 is working toward a better Tyria, so who cares what he reports? Nothing to hide and there is nothing DE is trying to hide.

I think the more time he spends with DE2 the more he will redeem himself and the more compassion he will gain. As long as he doesn’t loose the snarky banter.

Although this is starting to get off topic, let me put it to you this way using the attitude of “nothing to hide”.

Why did the Zephyrites just tell us about the egg in the first place? Why was it kept secret? Nothing to hide.

Information is key in many things and a highly valuable asset, despite how meaningless it may seem. Knowing that Brahm is a bit emotionally unstable atm could allow Anise to use him in some mission just by bringing up his mother. Oh, Taimi is researching about the dragon’s in a once thought lost city and didn’t report to her superiors? Have that dangling over her head.

Granted, I don’t see Anise doing this to be mean or cruel, but doing it in order to protect the Queen or kingdom in some way.

Arden.7480:

Canach defends Queen Jennah. Stop saying that he should be in DE 2.0. ANet knows better and They divide my mind.

… “I defend Queen Jennah” didn’t stop Logan Thackery from being in DE 1.0

eko.5213:

Also, where is Taimi in the picture???

Was gonna ask that as well.

Voted for Eternity’s Guard, although I don’t really like any of the three.
I’m sure Dragon’s Watch will win.

Sartharina.3542:

Arden.7480:

Canach defends Queen Jennah. Stop saying that he should be in DE 2.0. ANet knows better and They divide my mind.

… “I defend Queen Jennah” didn’t stop Logan Thackery from being in DE 1.0

And look what happened….

Canach could still join the group, though still remain under Anise’s payroll.

Anise’s involvement could have something to do with the Bandits that appeared to be there but abandoned their stuff and forts when Mordremoth started acting…
Now that we have coded orders with White Mantle symbol and all.

Hmm, looking at the group profession vise:

• Taimi is unconfirmed atm, perhaps her new Scruffy 2.0 golem/powerarmor will give her more profession specific role
• Rox is a Ranger
• Braham might turn into a Dragon Hunter from Guardian
• Marjory is a Reaper it seems
• Kasmeer seems to be a Chronomancer or still just a Mesmer
• Rytlock swapped from Warrior into Revenant

Canach seems to be a Warrior or Berserker.
Caithe I think is one possible member as a Thief or Daredevil.
Malyck could make a comeback and become a member of the team…

Shiren.9532:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

1) The biconics are not mary sue characters. May Sues are defined by a lack of flaws and how everything always goes their way.

It could be worse, but there is a bit of Mary Sue going on with the biconics, especially Kasmeer and Taimi.

While both of them are introduced as characters with some degree of challenge in their life or background, rarely does either actually face setbacks or have to deal with compromise or challenge as a result.

While Kasmeer is introduced as losing her status and class, she doesn’t look like a street urchin, she remains one of the most elegant characters in the game. She landed rather comfortably right away with a job and a home so we never see her truly struggle after losing her wealth and social status. Even a show like Two Broke Girls is a more realistic portrayal of the life of someone like Kasmeer who loses everything and is thrust into a lower class without the upbringing giving her the skills to handle that. We are told she lost her wealth and her security but all we ever see is a beautiful woman living comfortably in a world where that’s not a realistic outcome.

Secondary to this, or perhaps even worse, the only demonstration of her loss of social status is a random person doesn’t announce her with a title at a social function. We see she still has a relationship with Logan, Captain of the Seraph and the Queen’s partner, we see she has a relationship with Anise, and she even joins the royal escort in the World Summit that Kasmeer herself helped negotiate by writing a letter directly to the Pale Tree. The gravity of losing your social status and your class is completely lost when the reality is Kasmeer has privileged access to some of the most powerful people in Tyria but her background is supposed to suggest the opposite.

Why write that a character is an alcoholic if you’re never going to show that character struggle with their alcoholism? Kasmeer’s flaws are really faux flaws – superficially they make her sound interesting but throughout the story they are barely present. Which is more interesting – an alcoholic that tells you they are an alcoholic but never in the story does that present a challenge for them, or one that loses their family and job because they couldn’t control their drinking? Kasmeer is the former, it’s window dressing but it’s not her lived in reality.

With no field experience prior to her introduction, Kasmeer holds her next to seasoned fighters like Braham, Marjory and Rox, going as far as to surpass them during the season one finale with Mesmer Sue powers. She does this multiple times throughout the story, including being specifically summoned herself by some authority on mesmers because of how fantastic a mesmer she is.

It’s a similar theme across many of the biconics – Rox is the lowest class of charr but has privileged access to one of the highest ranking charr, Rytlock. She gets the honour of ambassador to Kryta for the Queen’s Jubilee and she’s trusted with important tasks such as taking on Scarlet. Even after disobeying orders, she retains privileged access and has more autonomy than most people would in a military culture like the charr. She isn’t stationed on watch duty, she doesn’t have to clean out the cow dung, she isn’t “shipped off to Siberia” as a punishment, she continues to be a part of the charr military hierarchy while working side by side with some of the most elite people in Tyria.

When bad things happen, the consequences are either superficial or short lived, or the bad things happen to people around them. Marjory’s sister’s death is a bad thing that happened to Belinda not Marjory, if Marjory had become an alcoholic in her grief, or a ruthless necromancer indiscriminately killing sylvari to take down Mordremoth – then she would have real flaws, all we see did was disappear for an episode and act slightly more suspicious of sylvari than everyone else.

The flaws these characters possess hold little to no power in their lives, it’s just window dressing to give the appearance of a more compelling character. The characters themselves rub shoulders with important people, get to go on important missions, are successful at almost everything they do, and unlike Destiny’s Edge – they haven’t paid a price like the defeat against Kralkatorrik and death of Snaff. The idea itself isn’t bad, the execution just didn’t utilise it. Their flaws don’t weigh them down, they rarely challenge or obstruct them, they act as window dressing to make it seem like these people are exceptional because they accomplish things even with “flaws”. That’s why they come off as Mary Sue to many people.

That is the best summation of these characters that I’ve read. Sometimes to me it feels like A.net falls in love with their “pet” characters and is against having anything truly bad happen in their lives or to them. They must always be successful, must always have other NPC’s tell them how great they are, and they must always be able to overcome any odds. While that’s not a bad thing, when that’s all there is, it feels shallow and more like fan-fiction than actual characterization and storytelling. You could say bad things happened to all of them, but as you stated here, it really didn’t. Nothing changed in their lives really, it was almost an annoyance, a slight bump in the road that was never followed up on because it would detract from their magnificence.

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Anyone else annoyed by the lack of Sylvari in the new group? Destiny’s Edge was a big deal because it had 1 of each race, but the new group has 1 Norn, 2 Humans, 1 Asura, and 1-2 Charr (depends on if you count Rytlock as a core member or just a DE member tagging along) and 0 Sylvari. I thought they were setting up Canach to end up joining the group but that never materialized.

I don’t mind having more than 1 (Especially with the Kasmeer-Marjory dynamic), but I hate not having any Sylvari at all. I really think this needs to be addressed; it leaves Sylvari fans feeling left out of the new group dynamic and seems to marginalize the race that was so core to the story. It also leaves the Sylvari elements of the story feeling left out; just imagine what would have gone on with a Sylvari member during The Call that instead got addressed only from the outside.

To be fair and while you have a point, that’s pretty much how Non-Sylvari players have felt for a long time.

Vyrulisse.1246:

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Anyone else annoyed by the lack of Sylvari in the new group? Destiny’s Edge was a big deal because it had 1 of each race, but the new group has 1 Norn, 2 Humans, 1 Asura, and 1-2 Charr (depends on if you count Rytlock as a core member or just a DE member tagging along) and 0 Sylvari. I thought they were setting up Canach to end up joining the group but that never materialized.

I don’t mind having more than 1 (Especially with the Kasmeer-Marjory dynamic), but I hate not having any Sylvari at all. I really think this needs to be addressed; it leaves Sylvari fans feeling left out of the new group dynamic and seems to marginalize the race that was so core to the story. It also leaves the Sylvari elements of the story feeling left out; just imagine what would have gone on with a Sylvari member during The Call that instead got addressed only from the outside.

To be fair and while you have a point, that’s pretty much how Non-Sylvari players have felt for a long time.

LS1, LS2, Expansion, all based on sylvari. Can we move on to the other races now?

The Righteous Harmonious Fists.

Shiren.9532:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

1) The biconics are not mary sue characters. May Sues are defined by a lack of flaws and how everything always goes their way.

It could be worse, but there is a bit of Mary Sue going on with the biconics, especially Kasmeer and Taimi.

While both of them are introduced as characters with some degree of challenge in their life or background, rarely does either actually face setbacks or have to deal with compromise or challenge as a result.

While Kasmeer is introduced as losing her status and class, she doesn’t look like a street urchin, she remains one of the most elegant characters in the game. She landed rather comfortably right away with a job and a home so we never see her truly struggle after losing her wealth and social status. Even a show like Two Broke Girls is a more realistic portrayal of the life of someone like Kasmeer who loses everything and is thrust into a lower class without the upbringing giving her the skills to handle that. We are told she lost her wealth and her security but all we ever see is a beautiful woman living comfortably in a world where that’s not a realistic outcome.

Secondary to this, or perhaps even worse, the only demonstration of her loss of social status is a random person doesn’t announce her with a title at a social function. We see she still has a relationship with Logan, Captain of the Seraph and the Queen’s partner, we see she has a relationship with Anise, and she even joins the royal escort in the World Summit that Kasmeer herself helped negotiate by writing a letter directly to the Pale Tree. The gravity of losing your social status and your class is completely lost when the reality is Kasmeer has privileged access to some of the most powerful people in Tyria but her background is supposed to suggest the opposite.

Why write that a character is an alcoholic if you’re never going to show that character struggle with their alcoholism? Kasmeer’s flaws are really faux flaws – superficially they make her sound interesting but throughout the story they are barely present. Which is more interesting – an alcoholic that tells you they are an alcoholic but never in the story does that present a challenge for them, or one that loses their family and job because they couldn’t control their drinking? Kasmeer is the former, it’s window dressing but it’s not her lived in reality.

With no field experience prior to her introduction, Kasmeer holds her next to seasoned fighters like Braham, Marjory and Rox, going as far as to surpass them during the season one finale with Mesmer Sue powers. She does this multiple times throughout the story, including being specifically summoned herself by some authority on mesmers because of how fantastic a mesmer she is.

It’s a similar theme across many of the biconics – Rox is the lowest class of charr but has privileged access to one of the highest ranking charr, Rytlock. She gets the honour of ambassador to Kryta for the Queen’s Jubilee and she’s trusted with important tasks such as taking on Scarlet. Even after disobeying orders, she retains privileged access and has more autonomy than most people would in a military culture like the charr. She isn’t stationed on watch duty, she doesn’t have to clean out the cow dung, she isn’t “shipped off to Siberia” as a punishment, she continues to be a part of the charr military hierarchy while working side by side with some of the most elite people in Tyria.

When bad things happen, the consequences are either superficial or short lived, or the bad things happen to people around them. Marjory’s sister’s death is a bad thing that happened to Belinda not Marjory, if Marjory had become an alcoholic in her grief, or a ruthless necromancer indiscriminately killing sylvari to take down Mordremoth – then she would have real flaws, all we see did was disappear for an episode and act slightly more suspicious of sylvari than everyone else.

The flaws these characters possess hold little to no power in their lives, it’s just window dressing to give the appearance of a more compelling character. The characters themselves rub shoulders with important people, get to go on important missions, are successful at almost everything they do, and unlike Destiny’s Edge – they haven’t paid a price like the defeat against Kralkatorrik and death of Snaff. The idea itself isn’t bad, the execution just didn’t utilise it. Their flaws don’t weigh them down, they rarely challenge or obstruct them, they act as window dressing to make it seem like these people are exceptional because they accomplish things even with “flaws”. That’s why they come off as Mary Sue to many people.

Great post, well explained.

Anyway, given what we’ve got I went for “The Unbroken”.

I would have gone for “Taimi’s Troop” but it wasn’t available.

Shiren.9532:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

1) The biconics are not mary sue characters. May Sues are defined by a lack of flaws and how everything always goes their way.

It could be worse, but there is a bit of Mary Sue going on with the biconics, especially Kasmeer and Taimi.

While both of them are introduced as characters with some degree of challenge in their life or background, rarely does either actually face setbacks or have to deal with compromise or challenge as a result.

While Kasmeer is introduced as losing her status and class, she doesn’t look like a street urchin, she remains one of the most elegant characters in the game. She landed rather comfortably right away with a job and a home so we never see her truly struggle after losing her wealth and social status. Even a show like Two Broke Girls is a more realistic portrayal of the life of someone like Kasmeer who loses everything and is thrust into a lower class without the upbringing giving her the skills to handle that. We are told she lost her wealth and her security but all we ever see is a beautiful woman living comfortably in a world where that’s not a realistic outcome.

Secondary to this, or perhaps even worse, the only demonstration of her loss of social status is a random person doesn’t announce her with a title at a social function. We see she still has a relationship with Logan, Captain of the Seraph and the Queen’s partner, we see she has a relationship with Anise, and she even joins the royal escort in the World Summit that Kasmeer herself helped negotiate by writing a letter directly to the Pale Tree. The gravity of losing your social status and your class is completely lost when the reality is Kasmeer has privileged access to some of the most powerful people in Tyria but her background is supposed to suggest the opposite.

Why write that a character is an alcoholic if you’re never going to show that character struggle with their alcoholism? Kasmeer’s flaws are really faux flaws – superficially they make her sound interesting but throughout the story they are barely present. Which is more interesting – an alcoholic that tells you they are an alcoholic but never in the story does that present a challenge for them, or one that loses their family and job because they couldn’t control their drinking? Kasmeer is the former, it’s window dressing but it’s not her lived in reality.

With no field experience prior to her introduction, Kasmeer holds her next to seasoned fighters like Braham, Marjory and Rox, going as far as to surpass them during the season one finale with Mesmer Sue powers. She does this multiple times throughout the story, including being specifically summoned herself by some authority on mesmers because of how fantastic a mesmer she is.

It’s a similar theme across many of the biconics – Rox is the lowest class of charr but has privileged access to one of the highest ranking charr, Rytlock. She gets the honour of ambassador to Kryta for the Queen’s Jubilee and she’s trusted with important tasks such as taking on Scarlet. Even after disobeying orders, she retains privileged access and has more autonomy than most people would in a military culture like the charr. She isn’t stationed on watch duty, she doesn’t have to clean out the cow dung, she isn’t “shipped off to Siberia” as a punishment, she continues to be a part of the charr military hierarchy while working side by side with some of the most elite people in Tyria.

When bad things happen, the consequences are either superficial or short lived, or the bad things happen to people around them. Marjory’s sister’s death is a bad thing that happened to Belinda not Marjory, if Marjory had become an alcoholic in her grief, or a ruthless necromancer indiscriminately killing sylvari to take down Mordremoth – then she would have real flaws, all we see did was disappear for an episode and act slightly more suspicious of sylvari than everyone else.

The flaws these characters possess hold little to no power in their lives, it’s just window dressing to give the appearance of a more compelling character. The characters themselves rub shoulders with important people, get to go on important missions, are successful at almost everything they do, and unlike Destiny’s Edge – they haven’t paid a price like the defeat against Kralkatorrik and death of Snaff. The idea itself isn’t bad, the execution just didn’t utilise it. Their flaws don’t weigh them down, they rarely challenge or obstruct them, they act as window dressing to make it seem like these people are exceptional because they accomplish things even with “flaws”. That’s why they come off as Mary Sue to many people.

^ THIS! These definitely were the thoughts going on in the back of my mind throughout all the LS’s, but I could never really figure out how to vocalize/express these thoughts. There was always something irksome about these new characters, and I couldn’t put my finger on it, but I did get Mary Sue/Gary Stue vibes nonetheless.

Honestly, I think that MS/GS are broader characterizations than most people believe. It can mean a main character who has absolutely no flaws and does everything right (or wrong, with no repercusions), OR they happen to have way too many flaws and tragedy in their life and yet still magically save the day (not in a goofish, clumsy character kind of way, mind you. Etain from Star Wars Republic Commando is a big example of this, in my mind. Ugh. She killed that series for me.)

kermq.6258:

Why I dont see Taimi in the graphic, shes in the group to as mentioned but she didnt make it to it?

BTW i want to see Scruffy 2.0 in LS3

Yeah I looked around that picture many times, scanning for Taimi…

Bad form Anet, leaving out the most important and superior member of the group.

By the way, what does “biconics” mean? I keep seeing it pop up in this thread, but have never heard of it in the game.

FrostSpectre.4198:

Canach seems to be a Warrior or Berserker.

I thought he was an engineer, just the way his shield is used and some of the other abilities he has.

Lord Kuru.3685:

There must be a plot twist because Dragon’s Watch means they’re working for the Dragon. LOL

This is exactly what my point was. The name sounds the coolest, but the apostrophe changes the meaning in such a way that I couldn’t vote on it. And unless we suddenly become friends with the remaining dragons it will be a rather awkward name.

GRAMMAR!

Moyayuki.3619:

By the way, what does “biconics” mean? I keep seeing it pop up in this thread, but have never heard of it in the game.

The original five Destiny’s Edge were known as iconic characters of GW2. So when we got a fresh junior set, the B group, it got conflated to biconics.

Vyrulisse.1246:

Seabreeze.8437:

“Name this team of legendary heroes! They will go down in history as—what? Oh… you were there too, I guess. But let’s be honest, this is their spotlight, not yours. Now step aside while they take the credit for all your hard work.” :p

“Trahearne’s Legacy”

Nailed it!

“Sons of Kormir”

Donari.5237:

Moyayuki.3619:

By the way, what does “biconics” mean? I keep seeing it pop up in this thread, but have never heard of it in the game.

The original five Destiny’s Edge were known as iconic characters of GW2. So when we got a fresh junior set, the B group, it got conflated to biconics.

Wow, that’s…really lame. Just take “iconic” and slap a “b” onto it? It sounds too much like “bionic”, and also was making me think some Asuran elites or colleges were running the show behind the scenes.

Vyrulisse.1246:

Seabreeze.8437:

“Name this team of legendary heroes! They will go down in history as—what? Oh… you were there too, I guess. But let’s be honest, this is their spotlight, not yours. Now step aside while they take the credit for all your hard work.” :p

“Trahearne’s Legacy”

Nailed it!

Since he is a plant, you could use “Trahearne’s Seed” instead.

… or maybe not.

I’ll bet the new group already tried to join Destiny’s Edge long ago, but it turned out Snaff was the only one with invite permissions. Thus the need to start a new guild.

While I haven’t had the MS/GS vibe from the biconics, it is worth noting that a tragic backstory or token flaw that never seems to hinder the character apart from being something to angst over is often one of the signs of being a Sue.

In defense of Kas specifically: her retaining influence with powerful people makes sense when you consider that humans from humble backgrounds can still be in powerful positions. Logan isn’t a noble himself, so he’d have no reason to shun Kasmeer due to her being stripped of her title, and the Pact Commander may come from a background of even lower rank. Other nobles may well have retained established friendships with Kasmeer and discreetly kept her afloat until she got back on her feet (and simply by virtue of being a spellcaster she’d have more opportunities than most). Furthermore, her backstory has a strong vibe of being an elaborate character assassination (followed by a literal assassination) by Caudecus’ faction… which is something that Anise, if not Jennah herself, would probably be aware of and looking for an excuse to reverse by reinstating the Meade family… which could include sending her on missions so such an ennobling can be presented as having made an undeniable contribution to Kryta that deserves it. (After all, odds are the Mesmer Collective is dominated by Jennah and Anise.)

It all makes sense in the context. The one thing that got me was Kasmeer having been given no military training. In the context of Tyrian humanity where women are considered to be the equal of men in military roles, and of Kryta in particular which has long-running conflicts with bandits and centaurs, I would expect a noblewoman (particularly one with militarily valuable magical abilities) to be given enough military training to at least contribute to her own defense and that of her estate in a pinch.

Moyayuki.3619:

Donari.5237:

Moyayuki.3619:

By the way, what does “biconics” mean? I keep seeing it pop up in this thread, but have never heard of it in the game.

The original five Destiny’s Edge were known as iconic characters of GW2. So when we got a fresh junior set, the B group, it got conflated to biconics.

Wow, that’s…really lame. Just take “iconic” and slap a “b” onto it? It sounds too much like “bionic”, and also was making me think some Asuran elites or colleges were running the show behind the scenes.

It’s purely an out-of-game label for the sake of convenience

Sinmir.6504:

FrostSpectre.4198:

Canach seems to be a Warrior or Berserker.

I thought he was an engineer, just the way his shield is used and some of the other abilities he has.

NPCs aren’t limited with respect to professions like PCs are. Canach appears to be primarily a warrior but with a few engineer skills thrown in.

Moyayuki.3619:

Donari.5237:

Moyayuki.3619:

By the way, what does “biconics” mean? I keep seeing it pop up in this thread, but have never heard of it in the game.

The original five Destiny’s Edge were known as iconic characters of GW2. So when we got a fresh junior set, the B group, it got conflated to biconics.

Wow, that’s…really lame. Just take “iconic” and slap a “b” onto it? It sounds too much like “bionic”, and also was making me think some Asuran elites or colleges were running the show behind the scenes.

Welcome to the evolution of language (or at least of slang)

Donari.5237:

Moyayuki.3619:

Donari.5237:

Moyayuki.3619:

By the way, what does “biconics” mean? I keep seeing it pop up in this thread, but have never heard of it in the game.

The original five Destiny’s Edge were known as iconic characters of GW2. So when we got a fresh junior set, the B group, it got conflated to biconics.

Wow, that’s…really lame. Just take “iconic” and slap a “b” onto it? It sounds too much like “bionic”, and also was making me think some Asuran elites or colleges were running the show behind the scenes.

Welcome to the evolution of language (or at least of slang)

If a third group of heroes pops up, are they going to be…“triconic”?

I didn’t even consider this, because I play a Sylvari. So it didn’t even hit me until I saw this. I don’t think it necessarily needs to be addressed. If it’s not in the storyline, it’s not in the storyline. Forcing the issue might turn out with a not so great story. Maybe someone will get introduced at a later time?

I actually didn’t feel anything for any of the three. It sounds a bit too pompous somehow. would have liked something like… companionable. Feels more like a band of friends than some kind of high guard.

Canach works for that creature disguised as countess Anise. If you want some plant person to be part of the team, it’ll have to be something else.

Preferably some kind of orphan. For example, a former mordrem guard who came back to their senses after Mordremoth took over their tree and controlled all of them, but slowly come back to their senses once Mordremoth is dead. But their tree has been damaged irreparably, making all of them orphans.

Like Malyck. He’d do nicely.

Ardid.7203:

I consider Canach a part of the new team in the same way I consider Vegeta part of the Goku family.

Haha! I like that comparison and I always liked Vegeta. But who’s Goku in this family?

Can I form a team with just Taimi? I feel like we bonded during that living story episode when she built the waypoint fixy thingy. I think we could make it work.

EDIT: Get your minds out of the gutter. I mean a strictly professional team.

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Canach doesn’t need to be on this team. Canach will form his own team. Canach’s team will have Canach and nobody else, because nobody but Canach is worthy of being on team Canach.

So true.

Canach should definitely be part of this team, I wouldn’t have found the HoT story as interesting with out him.

I know people are done with Sylvari because they’re everywhere, but we still miss Malyck and his Tree in story (btw it was cut from HoT story due to time deadlines) and there are still covered maps in the Jungle… We cannot just ignore that and go to Crystal Desert…
I do like Canach, but I felt that special bond with Trehearne, because he was my friend and Canach is sarcastic kitten – I am playing sylvari btw.
Well, we’ll see if he joins us or leaves us to his own business.
I’d prefer when he leaves us and we find Malyck finally, meet his tree and get all information about what happened with Sylvaris after Mordy’s death, then finito and let’s move to Rata Novus!