Guild Wars 2

I don’t think anybody wants to spend trait or slotting choices on a hunch; we like making informed decisions. And since it’s not clear from the text provided within the game, I think it’s ultimately the responsibility of the developer to clear up the confusion when it comes to how certain mechanics are intended to work. Otherwise, how do we know they’re working correctly (or at all)? In this particular case, it’s a question regarding the mechanics of condition removal.

So, let’s say you have three abilities and/or traits equipped which offer the same passive ability: “Cures a condition every ten seconds.” And then you zoned to a new map (thus zoning into a new map with them all “active”).

How exactly does that work? Would you..

A) ..have a condition cured every 3.33 seconds?

B) ..have three condition cures firing off at the same time every 10 seconds?

C) ..have three condition cures firing off at different times, each on its own independent 10 second timer, which is completely based on when you slotted each ability/trait, regardless of zoning to a new map afterwards?

Clearly (in my opinion) “A” is much more useful than “B” (and even “C”), as the latter can more easily allow conditions to land and expire naturally between cleanse points.

It has also been suggested that condition removals are always immediately ready to cleanse a condition as long as they have not done so in the prior 10 seconds. That it isn’t a “pulse” that fires every 10 seconds, but instead a state – either being in a mode where it was recently used (passively) and in the process of recharging over a 10 second period, OR being ready and instantly available, but remaining dormant until a condition presents itself for removal.

That’s a nice thought, but is it accurate? And even if it is, the question of how multiple condition removal skills interact remains. What if you have three such passive skills/traits running? Do they all react, cleanse, and then go on to a 10 second cooldown over the same single condition (which is a big waste of two of them), or is the system more intelligent than that with 2 of the 3 cleaners remaining dormant since only one needs to react to cleanse the problem?

The latter, for example, would allow someone to instantly cleanse the first three stacking application attempts of a bleed as they’re each applied, where as the former would waste three cleanses on the first bleed application (allowing the following two bleed applications to successfully apply).

I (and I believe other players) would really appreciate a definitive “this is how the system works” explanation. I know some developers prefer to leave things a mystery and prefer players figure things out, but how an ability works (particularly traits, which we can only choose so many of) should never be one of those things that players have to guess about.

would be nice to know.

Sleep.4731:

would be nice to know.

Yes, yes it would.

I’m surprised there aren’t more theories floating about. If nobody actually knows, that’s just all the more reason for us needing an explanation. You shouldn’t really ever have to guess at how combat mechanics work.

I’ve always thought the skills fire off as needed then recharge to fire off again.

Is sPvP random groups? it could be tested there.

it seems to me in most games this isn’t the responsibility of the devs to explain it. this is the sort of thing players test and then report on.

I havent gone looking for answers yet as i’m still pretty casual with the game and have lots more to figure out before i get to this stuff but i’m surprised to hear the info isn’t out there.

I’ve always thought the skills fire off as needed then recharge to fire off again.

This is how they work as far as I know. This could be tested easily (fight the Necro computer mob in the mists).
And I always see folks in discussions such as this talk about “Zoning in.” How they got the impression that this has anything to do with the matter baffles me.

There’s enough of these traits that simply don’t work. On my guardian there’s the traits you can spend to remove a condition or convert a condition to a boon that when you actually watch, they only sometimes remove the condition and you never get the boon.

Bsquared.3421:

I’ve always thought the skills fire off as needed then recharge to fire off again.

This is how they work as far as I know. This could be tested easily (fight the Necro computer mob in the mists).
And I always see folks in discussions such as this talk about “Zoning in.” How they got the impression that this has anything to do with the matter baffles me.

Actually, testing this seems anything but easy.

The problem is (without dueling another player who you are actively communicating with for the purpose of testing like you can in other games), it’s difficult to tell when an NPC has applied a condition to you that has been immediately countered by a condition removal tool that responds automatically.

I’ve never seen a condition icon pop up, do a tick of damage, and then vanish prematurely (and I’m pretty sure we wouldn’t want condition removal mechanics to work that way). So, it seems that the condition removal cancels the condition application before it’s even applied, but since there’s never any clue that it’s occurring that’s all speculation.

What I do see? Conditions landing on me and sticking within moments of a fight starting, despite the fact that I have two automated condition removal abilities “waiting” for something to do. What should I believe? That two failed attempts to apply conditions were made on my character within a period of a few seconds, or that a single attempt was made and both condition removal abilities reacted (wasting one of them for nothing), or that we’re looking at a cleanser on a worthless 10 second pulse that allows conditions to come and go without challenging them?

Actually, testing this seems anything but easy.

Of course it would be easier to find a friend/guildy and go into a low pop sPvP match to “duel.” This would be your best testing option.

Outside of that, unequip your automatic condition removal abilities (or detrait them), and fight the compu necro a couple times. They use the same skills over and over, they’re dumb NPC’s (he’ll always use poison, easy to see if it comes off or doesn’t go on at all cause your character turns green), so learn the casting animation and the condition it applies.
Retrait and equip the removal abilities, watch the casting animations and see if the conditions get applied. If he uses a condition skill, but the condition doesn’t go on your bar, start a stopwatch and wait 10 seconds to see if it wipes something again after 10 seconds. Start with just 1 condition wipe skill to test the mechanics, then add more to see how it works.

I understand this will never be as easy as being with another human over voicechat and “dueling” them, but it would work. It might take a couple fights to see everything clearly, you might trying fraps’ing it (if you have access to this software or something similar), so you can rewatch the fight multiple times to check the condition wipes. And yes, you’re gonna die multiple times learning the cycle (and thus have to run back to the NPC a couple times), but it’s the mists so you don’t get repair costs, it only slows ya down.

I’m not trying to troll here, only help. I tested vapor form for my Ele this way, and it was a pain in the A, but it works slowly without begging for a partner in guild chat.

What I do see? Conditions landing on me and sticking within moments of a fight starting, despite the fact that I have two automated condition removal abilities “waiting” for something to do. What should I believe?

What is probably happening is the enemy is applying multiple bleeds, etc., from multiple skills. They use a skill that puts up 1 bleed stack, then follow with another skill that puts on 3 more. The autowipe takes off the 1 bleed stack as soon as it’s applied, and then the 3 stack sticks. This is the inherent danger of autowipes. Guardian’s have a lot of these autowipes, so if i’m fighting them I try to get their autowipes on cooldown (but applying single bleed stacks, a chill, etc.) and then once they stop coming off hit them with churning earth so the 7 bleeds it applies stick longer, even if it’s only 4 or 5 seconds. I’m a bunkerish Ele, I can’t kill bunkered guardians anyway (but they can’t kill me either)

Double post to relay a funny story from when I was allowing myself to be killed repeatedly in the mists to test Ele vapor form.

Another “helpful” player was practicing on the dummies near me, and he/she kept running over when I would go into downed state, then try to kill the dummy and revive me. He must have thought I was the worst player in the world, to get killed repeatedly by the NPC dummies. After the 2nd time this happened, I had to whisper him to tell him “let me die, i’m testing something on my downed form.”

He laughed, and then offered to help for a minute. Then, when I would get downed he would take over beating on the dummy (but not killing it) so I wouldn’t get stomped by the NPC and could get the 20 seconds I needed for vapor form cooldown to come up again.

It made my testing MUCH faster, only of course after he stopped killing my experiment

Bsquared.3421:

What I do see? Conditions landing on me and sticking within moments of a fight starting, despite the fact that I have two automated condition removal abilities “waiting” for something to do. What should I believe?

What is probably happening is the enemy is applying multiple bleeds, etc., from multiple skills. They use a skill that puts up 1 bleed stack, then follow with another skill that puts on 3 more. The autowipe takes off the 1 bleed stack as soon as it’s applied, and then the 3 stack sticks. This is the inherent danger of autowipes. Guardian’s have a lot of these autowipes, so if i’m fighting them I try to get their autowipes on cooldown (but applying single bleed stacks, a chill, etc.) and then once they stop coming off hit them with churning earth so the 7 bleeds it applies stick longer, even if it’s only 4 or 5 seconds. I’m a bunkerish Ele, I can’t kill bunkered guardians anyway (but they can’t kill me either)

What you’re saying is understandable but doesn’t apply to the scenarios I’m describing as my observations are from testing against lower level mobs that are usually one trick ponies.. they have a bleed, or a poison, etc that they use sparsely during a fight, but not a combination of multiple types of conditions like you’re describing. And that’s why the results I’m seeing make little sense.

My understanding is that the entire stack is also removed, not just one stack of it. If you’re talking about a combination of attacks that keep adding to the current stack, again, my observations are on lower level mobs that typically only have a single attack that applies a condition, and you’re lucky if you see it used once during the fight.

i havent read all, but as a guardian with the passive trait and the signet of resolve, all i can say that for me, the way it works is like this:

every 10 seconds two conditions will be removed, this interval is static, meaning i get two conditions removed after i zoned in 10 seconds, and then after that 10 seconds again, as example, in seconds
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10=2 conditions removed,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 = 2 conditions removed.

i say this because sometimes the conditiosn come off as soon as they get applied, and on other cases they stick with me for a while before it dissappears without having had had a condition previously applied to me
thus meaning if i use the healing signet (and lets say that for these purposes the signet of resolve cooldown is 10 seconds too) 1,2,3,4,5 (heal signet used), 6,7,8,9,10 (trait, one condition removed), 11,12,13,14, 15 (signet is recharged), 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 (passive trait removal of 1 condition), 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 (signet condition removal), 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 (trait)

and so on, at least for me THIS is how it feels it is, i have not made an empirical research, nor i really have a need for, as i know the conditions will be removed eventually.
also because im lazy to keep it tracked, lol

AW Lore.5682:

every 10 seconds two conditions will be removed, this interval is static, meaning i get two conditions removed after i zoned in 10 seconds, and then after that 10 seconds again, as example, in seconds
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10=2 conditions removed,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 = 2 conditions removed.

My observations brought me to a similar conclusion, and that’s unfortunate because of all the ways to handle automated condition removal it seems like the worst and most useless. It allows far too many conditions to slip through the 10 second gap and expire naturally. The odds are simply too low that a pulse will trigger within a second of a condition landing. Why not have pulses remain in a ready state instead when they’re not needed, and why not use them individually as needed rather than triggering multiple condition removal moments all at the same time?

In the case of two automated condition removal tools, 2 pulses triggering 5 seconds apart every 10 seconds (and remaining on standby when not needed) are much more likely to catch a short duration condition than 2 pulses that trigger at the same time every 10 seconds whether they’re needed or not.