Guild Wars 2

I am so sick of warrior/mesmer only runs of CoF. I’m tired of my guardian and ele only having 1-2 viable builds. I am tired of my ranger being almost literally worthless. My engineer performs worse than nearly all others even if I put it the most effort.

Why are warriors doing more damage than the rest of us, while being innately tanky? Why do they do more single target damage AND more AoE dmg than my ranger? Why do they have good support and tankiness to go with their ridiculously OP damage? I don’t get it.

I am just feeling really “fatigued” with this same meta for this long. I would strongly appreciate some real input. Not necessarily on my own thread, but on any thread. I am not trying to bash Anet. I really love the game, I play every day. But I am just getting really annoyed when I play now because everything still feels nearly exactly the same as when release time came.

It’s tradition, best armour, best DPS, Warrior >> everything else.

Agree OP absolutely agree. it’s sad when 1 class can run Arah solo.

Engis and Necros are the worst because the management can’t allocate enough personnel to squash their bugs 5 months into the game. and that doesn’t even cover the design flaws.

This game is in such a need for more personnel and a PTR.

tigirius.9014:

Agree OP absolutely agree. it’s sad when 1 class can run Arah solo.

Engis and Necros are the worst because the management can’t allocate enough personnel to squash their bugs 5 months into the game. and that doesn’t even cover the design flaws.

This game is in such a need for more personnel and a PTR.

I would gladly help them test with a PTR

This game doesn’t have a meta. Players have no choice but to play with the balance that is created. In the end I think GW2’s skill system actually requires more balancing work than the GW1 system, because even small imbalances can no longer be worked around by players who would have had the freedom to shift into counter strategies (the meta). Now the only way to get balance is from direct action by the developer, and that means more of the onus is on them to keep it perfectly tuned. Otherwise you get months of stagnant balance issues like we’ve seen thus far. Law of unintended consequences.

I totally agree with the OP,

Warriors do need a nerf, and Necromancers and Engineers need a buff, even the Rangers could be tweaked a bit.

When doing Dungeon / Fractal runs, Warriors and Guardians are always valued greatly over the other classes. leading often to teams of 4/5 heavies. and Necromancers and Engineers are always last choice, and Rangers are often shunned due to the lack of control over their pets, which I’ll admit can be very frustrating at times.

I see nothing wrong with the Elementalist, Guardian, Mesmer and Thief classes. they all seem to be scaled fairly and play their roles well in a party. Okay it’s understandable that classes like the necromancer are built for the intention of soloing, but this is an MMO after all, so playing a role in a team ends up being very vital to getting anywhere in the game. so I feel classes like that should be more adaptable and to serve more use the party.

I can’t say much about the Engineer… since pretty much nobody plays as one. So i am sure that says enough.

Warriors though, they need nerfing. They are the ultimate easy-mode class. plus the fact that so many people use them to do event farming in Orr now due to the high damage and defence, and the wide range of AoE attacks. Playing as any other class trying to get a hit on a single target in hope for loot is a waste of time, since a mob of risen is flattened in seconds by 10 or so warriors at a time all using greatswords, mostly ‘Whirlwind Attack’.

As for Dungeon / Fractal runs I’ll admit Warriors are always a must and are valued greatly, but that should be the case for any class.

It seems unfair to me that when a party is being formed this is often the case… A Thief joins the party, but there is already another Thief in the group, ‘sorry, we already have a thief, we can’t take you’ yet a party of 3 Warriors, a Guardian and a Thief is perfectly fine ‘lol 4/5 heavies ftw’. This happens far too much.

I will say one thing: most people are phenomenally bad at this game, which includes being absolutely unable to explore the potential of their classes.

When people realize there’s more to a class than DPS or bunker ability they’ll soon realize some of the “UP” classes are not UP at all. Part of this is ANet’s fault, because of how PvE is designed with an enormous focus on Tank N’ Spank. Tank N’ Spank is all about flat DPS and tanking ability, thus naturally favoring Warrior and Guardian.

Which isn’t to say that there aren’t things to fix on those classes, but very few people actually know how to use the tools they do have that work right.

actually i hope for some warrior buffs, because in relation to most other classes they lack in pvp.

Sometimes I wonder about the class design choices. I like my Ranger and I mostly do WvWvW these days, doing a lot of solo roaming, the only pressing complaints I have are stealth reliant thieves and being saddled with a pet that’s as dumb as dirt. I stopped playing my Engineer because it wasn’t worth it at high level PvE, the fun died fast especially when I tried other classes so I didn’t even bother gearing him for PvP. I think in WvWvW, the class balance issues become more obvious, many already get pigeon holed and even then, some are easily effective and while others are not.

Blackers.7512:

Warriors do need a nerf

You’re wrong. Warriors do not need a nerf due to how terrible we are at PvP. CoF1 farming is what needs to be fixed, not Warriors.

Oglaf.1074:

Blackers.7512:

Warriors do need a nerf

You’re wrong. Warriors do not need a nerf due to how terrible we are at PvP. CoF1 farming is what needs to be fixed, not Warriors.

Exactly this.

CoF1 lets you go full damage with no risk, so no wonder the class with the highest up-close raw damage wins out.
You don’t need versatile classes like the Engie, because you don’t need to worry about support. With just 2 weak bosses, skippable trash groups and the need for only burst against the acolytes, Necros just don’t work well. With such static play, the mobility of the ranger goes to waste.

If CoF required a wider range of roles, you’d get a wider range of classes.

While I cannot speak for the warrior being OP (not having a warrior character), I can only confirm that engineer and ranger are somewhat under par compared to how I see other professions perform. It would be pretty cool should that be resolved soon, by either buffing the weakest professions (the engi-necro-ranger trinity), or by changing the game so that those classes become valuable.

knyy.6427:

actually i hope for some warrior buffs, because in relation to most other classes they lack in pvp.

there is a reason why pvp and pve are different…..

If a class is bad in pvp, balnce it in PVP

But warriors atm are just Beyond OP in PvE compared to other classes…

Look at gw2lfg not enough?

Look at who regularly complain dungeons are too easy….you won t see many engineers, necromancer etc etc there….

Its not dungeon are too easy is jyst that pvp balance destroyed pve balance…..

Oh noes, this one time this warrior was in Arah and I saw him on youtube and he totally killed a boss all on his own. OMG !!!!!!! All warriors must do this cause its a totally reasonable thing to do.

Boss and fight mechanics are the reasons. Not the class.

While we’re at it, they should balance thief because the only viable ways of playing are by speccing cheese tactics like backstab or condition/stealth build. If you don’t spec that way then you have nothing against any other player. I can’t really say anything about necros/engineers but I’ve been playing thief since beta and I haaaate speccing glass cannon. We’re not wanted in PvE cause we don’t bring anything useful and in PvP all we can do is lame with stealth.

Feels like warriors still are the loving child of ANet. They were OP in the beta and they are OP now.

Some professions are inherently more useful than others. The Warrior is the master of PvE. Why? Because the class offers everything from group support to fantastic damage output, AoE abilities, range and the widest section of weapons available.

Take a look at a couple of slot skills that Warriors have:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22For_Great_Justice!%22
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22On_My_Mark!%22

First one is party-wide 3 stacks of Might (+105 power, +105 condition damage) that lasts 25 seconds and party-wide +20% critical chance. Now compare this to the Engineer skill “Toss Elixir B”:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_B

Notice how it says one of the 4 and how it gives benefit to only those party members who are grouped up. Necromancer can’t give might to anyone but himself.

On My Mark is another fantastic party skill, because having Vulnerability on foe increases damage dealt by whole party. Engineer has a comparable skill called Analyze, but it lasts 2 seconds less and has 10 seconds longer cooldown.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Analyze

You’d think that Necromancers are experts at debuffing their targets. Spectral wall matches On My Mark, but its effects require opponent to pass through the wall and has 10 seconds longer cooldown. On My Mark is instant cast.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Wall

You can clearly see why playing Warrior is playing PvE in easymode. They stack damage, buffs and debuffs not only on themselves like every other class, but party members too. Their traits are further damage amplifiers. Everything stacks multiplicatively
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker%27s_Power
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Attack_of_Opportunity
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Forceful_Greatsword

In the same sense you can see why the Engineer class design is terrible. You spend slot skills to replace your weapon skills where Elementalists can just change attunement F1-F4. Engineers have no signets and the whole class is about either-or decisions. As you play Engineer you naturally converge into some optimal way of dealing damage. At this point you take a look at other classes and realize that your sacrifices were not worth it.

Leablo.2651:

This game doesn’t have a meta. Players have no choice but to play with the balance that is created. In the end I think GW2’s skill system actually requires more balancing work than the GW1 system, because even small imbalances can no longer be worked around by players who would have had the freedom to shift into counter strategies (the meta). Now the only way to get balance is from direct action by the developer, and that means more of the onus is on them to keep it perfectly tuned. Otherwise you get months of stagnant balance issues like we’ve seen thus far. Law of unintended consequences.

What’s worse is if the developer don’t have the time or the resources to allocate to class balance over other projects; we’re stuck playing with classes with skills that don’t work, tooltips displaying the wrong information and a list of abilities that are subpar compared to others.

There are some weapon combinations on certain classes that are never used. There are traits on certain classes that are never selected. There are utilities on certain classes that players will never, ever place on thier bars.

Not sure how to really reply to this, but you’re missing a few key details on a lot of those skills :
1) Spectral wall applies protection to allies, and can apply vuln to multiple opponents, while OMM! is just a single target. It also creates a combo field.
2) For both the Engineer’s skills you mention, you compare toolbelt skills to utility skills. The toolbelt skills are bonuses, and need to be balanced as such.

Short answer : Everything needs to be considered when it comes to balance. Picking one aspect doesn’t give you a good enough view of the whole picture.
I’m not saying there’s no need for some tweaks and slight alterations, but you’re taking a grass-is-greener approach that just doesn’t work.

rangers need a buff, engis need a buff, and necros need a buff. in pve

in wvwvw thieves need a massive nerf, d/d eles could also use some nerfing, shatter mesmer could as well. the classes listed above all need buffs too.

Hello,

There is already a thread about this subject here : Class balances on Feb 26 ?.

Therefore, this one is now closed to avoid duplicates.

Thank you for your understanding.