Guild Wars 2

no no no no no no no no no no no

1. you have the option to craft it
2. you have the option to drop it
3. you have the option to ignore it and use exotic

The total gain from exotic vs ascended (full set) is only 5%

I could find 4 people and we’d all use green set and we’d still finish pve content faster then most in exotic. because the pve mechanics neglect pretty much everything from gear and is purely based on party stacking.

It doenst matter what gear you use to do it, doing it will be so much more efficient then crafting ascended and just spamming skills running arround dodging aoe fields without knowing what you’re actually doing.

I merely made ascended because it gave me something to do. i’m pretty sure the majority of players did this for the same reason.

Ascended has never been a requirement but its a nice way for endgame players to keep busy and actually get some benefits for doing so.

Ask yourself this; Who would actually craft ascended if you’d remove the stat bonusses they give out now?

Exacly, no one. because you could eventually drop them. and even in fractals you can max out your agony with just 2 infused rings and adding 15/20 agony infusion.

Then we’d have to consider the HUGE influence this would give to crafting materials, their uses AND their values. Silk scrap would drop in price almost instantly, as well as linen. these are both in high demands due to ascended crafting.

Stat difference is too small to care.

read my statement above, i already explained what would happen.

nolop.8095:

If the stat difference is that insignificant, why not remove it ?

The stat difference is not insignificant. Why do you want to negate my hard work instead of building your own armor?

Because it would be a pointless change for the sake of having a change. Decreasing Ascended gear’s stat value would have effectively no impact, even for the people who do higher end Fractals, due to player skill being the most important out of the whole affair. Good players could easily do it with Exotic stats + AR, but what would be the point in changing the stat-line? To cause people to have the same stats at the low and high end of skill? A pointless endeavor, as people who don’t have at least the desire for Ascended will never do the content that is actually balanced around being challenging for 80’s in the first place (no, being in a level 80 zone doesn’t suddenly give it a free pass as being “challenging for 80’s”).

As someone who has full ascended on at least 1 character it is insignificant. I just finally finished full ascended on my power/crit mesmer. I can’t even tell a difference. When I played Rift or WOW and got a upgrade it was noticeable for sure. Even a single socketed gem in Rift could make my crits hit significantly harder. Not so much in GW2.

Full ascended Jewelry with exotic armor and weapons puts you on par with anyone in full ascended in my opinion. Ascended jewelry is easy enough to get. Ascended armor could use a crafting buff. Way too expensive imo.

nolop.8095:

Well you first explain how the stats don’t matter at all and then you say they are the only reason to ever to craft ascended items. This contradicts itself.

If the stats are irrelevant now, there is already no reason to craft ascended gear according to your statement.

However I see a lot of players using it.

It appears to me like the stats are indeed very significant, so much, that they justify the massive grind required to get them.

“If the stats are irrelevant now, there is already no reason to craft ascended gear according to your statement.”

This^ There are many threads explaining just how meaningless ascended is. One reddit poster even did the math and showed that wearing ascended while in lower level zones nerfs you because of scaling.

There really is not reason to make the armor unless you’re like me and just have nothing else to work towards.

Nolop, just because people take the time to craft them, doesn’t mean the stats are of a significant value. I like to have the best possible, even if it were a 1% bonus I’d still get it just to have it done. It’s worth little more then the ability to say “yea I have it”. You don’t require it for 99% of the content in game, the stat increase of 5% is insignificant, the amount of people that are willing to get it doesn’t change the significance of the stats.

The “massive grind” is a matter of opinion. For an over all 5% bonus that is hardly noticeable, and not required. The only place you might need a bit of ascended is in fractals for AR.

Honestly once you hit 80 and full exotic, what else are you going to do other then work on ascended armor, skins, or a legendary?

Because those who already did it eventually DID craft it for the stat boots. its like a “why not” thing.

What’s so hard to understand about that.

It was NEVER REQUIRRED, it was purely OPTIONAL. infact, IT STILL IS OPTIONAL

You don’t need ascended, but you have the OPTION to make it and reap SMALL BENEFITS that give you reason to do it in the first place.

because again, who would spend all that time, effort & gold to make a set that ends up giving you the same thing you already have?

Please nolop, i replied to you twice what will happen when you reduce stats. especially the last part of my 1st post.

It seems to me you can’t be kitten d to go through the trouble of making one. That is fine, but don’t destroy the effort for people who actually did.

You don’t want ascended because you fear it would make content to easy? sure, then don’t use it.

That brings me to my next question, what do you consider hard content in the first place. jungle wurm? tequatl? both are challanging bosses and wsr still tends to fail it if we don’t bring one organized guild into the channel.

Thats how easy the content is these days, right?

Its not because people run arround in ascended, its because these people have done this content for a billion times now and they know the mechanics and how to play arround based on them, as efficiently as possible. Changing ascended stats is not going to do anything about that except kitten off the players who made a set (wich will be many these days)

Ascended is the poster child for the “work in a game” crowd. Eliminating the stat increase would be “taking away” all their “hard work.” It would also negate the sole purpose for Ascended to exist. Agony infusions could have been added to existing tiers. Tying the fractals’ mechanic to better gear was a step back towards the “need gear X to do content Y and you also get better stats that can be used anywhere.” feature from other MMO’s.

The OP does raise an interesting point, though. If content is balanced around lower gear tiers, how do they make it hard enough for those with the best gear, and if they make it hard for those with the best gear, they step away from the “optional” feel of Ascended. I’m hoping they’ll choose to raise the bar by increasing the need to have situational awareness and play smart rather than a raw numbers increase — though small number increases for mobs (as we see with Mordrem already) may not be a bad thing. There’s also the Masteries thing, where content is supposedly unbeatable if you don’t have a certain Mastery.

I guess we’ll see on difficulty. In the meantime, I don’t expect the mind-numbing crafting lists or the silly RNG drop tables for Ascended-level stats to be negated. Remember the outcry when fractal levels were “taken away?” I do. If Ascended stats were made easier to get, I’d expect that level of rage x10,000.

No. God, no. Please. Everyone who made ascended for the stats would feel cheated instantly. Idgaf if the stats aren’t worth it or whatever. They are still bigger and they are still better and that is why people make it. Believe it or not, there are people out there who actually like being rewarded for their efforts.

Essentially you’re proposing a “no child left behind” policy. The people who don’t want to do the work to make ascended should be able to have ascended stats anyways because it’s not fair otherwise, right? Regardless of the amount of work we put into something, we should all be equal. Lets get rid of the ascended gap because it encourages competition and takes away our right to be as good as anyone else.

Let me tell you something. I am halfway to ascended. It’s been FUN for me trying to make it because I’m IMPROVING my character. I can’t wait to finish it. This is something that makes me happy, Nolop. Do you think the others who worked hard to craft ascended will feel any different?

TL/DR: No

I totally agree with you.

I, also, feel that the relative lack of gear grind is one of the best things about this game and so a complete lack of one would be even better.

Any grinds (crafting, or whatever) should be merely for aesthetic stuff.

Other than that, we should all be left to run free and participate in the parts of the game we enjoy most, on an equal footing as possible with everyone else.

Equality is what makes for good games, as well as good societies.

EnlightenedNavigator.8296:

No. God, no. Please. Everyone who made ascended for the stats would feel cheated instantly.

Well, that would be ridiculous.

Like someone objecting to their WoW raid stuff being usurped by the new tier/xpac gear.

No one makes a promise to you that that gear will always be the best.

It is the best at the time; that is all.

In a game like this, where gear is not even supposed to be the main focus, people should be even more prepared for the eventuality that things may well be changed back to an even footing, at some point.

You want endgame gear progression, in a game that was supposed to have none?

Well, then you take the rough with the smooth and the rough of gear progression is that it is only temporary.

Miku.6297:

Honestly once you hit 80 and full exotic, what else are you going to do other then work on ascended armor, skins, or a legendary?

Actually play the game?

Staggering thought, I know, but you can decide to not “work” on anything.

Or only IRL (where you might actually achieve something); not in a game.

My main is in Full Ascended Armor, Trinkets and Weapons (including Aquatic). I made all my ascended stuff for one reason only:

• The miniscule increase in stats

That’s it.

Since I only do open-world PvE…
Do I need Ascended? Absolutely not.
Do I want Ascended? You bet ya.
Why? Because it’s there.

Some of you guys seem to want it both ways…

On the one hand, according to you, the stat increases are almost pointless.

Whereas, on the other, you would (apparently) be close to heartbroken if you lost them.

Make up your minds.

“We will never add more levels to the game, we will never add more tiers of gear to the game. The tiers and levels we have today will be the tiers and levels we have for the rest of the life of Guild Wars 2.”- Colin Johanson 2015
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-01-29-guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-expansion-level-cap-gear-tier

Just gonna leave this here.

EnlightenedNavigator.8296:

No. God, no. Please. Everyone who made ascended for the stats would feel cheated instantly. Idgaf if the stats aren’t worth it or whatever.

If the stats aren’t worth it then why would you make gear for the stats? You just said they essentially don’t matter.

They are still bigger and they are still better and that is why people make it.

Bigger doesn’t always mean better. As many have said, even in this thread, it is possible to complete content in full masterwork gear at the same rate or even faster than most people running full BiS gear.

Believe it or not, there are people out there who actually like being rewarded for their efforts.

So what I’m getting from this statement is the following:

People make ascended gear because:

A. Bigger stats
B. Gives something to do end game

If you take away “A” then people won’t do “B”

Even if Ascended stats were lowered to exotic level, you wouldn’t lose the reward. The reward is in the infusion slots. Ascended gear was originally intended for Fractals, with the purpose of giving added bonuses from infusions. The stat increase was to cater to all the crybabies from other MMO’s that wanted gear to grind. It never needed a stat boost.

The incentive to make ascended gear should be for:
A. Because people play/frequent Fractals
B. Because infusion slots give bonuses

Infusions give ore than just AR. You can add MF, karma, and gold gain to them, plus w/e other infusions Anet decides to add in the future. Really the “grind” should have circulated around infusion bonuses and not stats.

That being said, Ascended gear will never change, so don’t worry. Instead what I think HoT should do is add more ways to get Ascended gear so that people that don’t want to craft don’t have to. And make it reachable, on the same level or even easier than material grinding. Just saying.

Cyrill Faust.9340:

“We will never add more levels to the game, we will never add more tiers of gear to the game. The tiers and levels we have today will be the tiers and levels we have for the rest of the life of Guild Wars 2.”- Colin Johanson 2015
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-01-29-guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-expansion-level-cap-gear-tier

Just gonna leave this here.

That’s a mistake, if you ask me.

Had he said that, at the point where there was no ascended gear, then it would have been a good thing to say.

Saying it after there was ascended gear introduced, however, is a bit of a cop out.

Kind of like: “You know I said I would never cheat on you? Well, I obviously did and I’m still seeing him/her and don’t intend to stop…..but, I promise I won’t cheat on you again, apart from with him/her obviously.”.

Well, thanks for that, good to know…

alwinp.2791:

3. you have the option to ignore it and use exotic

The total gain from exotic vs ascended (full set) is only 5%

5% is actually quite a lot.

People min/max in WoW for a lot, lot, less than 5%.

alwinp.2791:

because the pve mechanics neglect pretty much everything from gear and is purely based on party stacking.

This is a separate issue, about the fundamentally flawed design of the game, that bothers me far more than gear discrepancies ever will.

nolop.8095:

I love how some of you are talking like I am a evil super villain who threatens to destroy your items with the awesome power of logic and forum posts ^^

I don’t think anyone thinks this, how ever your “logic” is being formed from your assumption on why people are getting ascended, and how much the stat differences matters. I wouldn’t really call your assumptions awesome logical powers

As I said before an insignificant stat difference is still insignificant no matter how many people go after it. The value of 5% benefit from the entire set, doesn’t become some how more majestic because people seem to want it, or are willing to put in a little effort to get it. Some of us just like having the best in slot available just to have it, kind of like an end of the line gear goal.

As I said if it was a 1% difference I’d get it, just to get it.

Do I think that my characters in exotic are going to some how be vastly or even noticeable inferior?: Nope, I don’t, and they aren’t. Am I still going to continue collecting ascended armor just because: Yes I am.

Personally, I’ve always felt that “ascended” should simply have been exotic level gear with agony resist slots, and that the “grind” should have been to build the infusions up to fill those slots. As opposed to having the whole new gear tier, regardless of how minor the stat change is, like we do now. It would have still given people something to chase, if properly implemented, without causing anywhere as near as much uproar, imo, because agony isn’t required for anything except fractals.

Unfortunately I do think it’s too late to “fix” the issue. To remove it would be to kitten off those that have spent the time or money (or both) to obtain it. The same happens if you downgrade it to be on par with Exotics. Hell, even just opening up acquisition methods could potentially cause a backlash from certain player types. Of course there are also those that are working towards it currently, or those that intend to get it, that would see an opening up in ease of acquisition or a downgrade to exotic stats as a slap in the face because it negates the goals they have set out for themselves. Anet has to take all of that into consideration when they think about such changes, because they don’t want to kitten people off or drive them away. It’s a very fine line they have to balance on, I’m sure.

So..at this point, I think we’re pretty much just stuck with what we got.

Not going to happen. Why would they create something, have a sizeable part of the player base invest in it, and then take it away?

Sorry, if you want ascended gear you are going to have to put in the time and investment like everyone else.

I doubt what Anet meant by challenging is upping the stat pool of enemys, and the difference is a few percentage points. They are probably making more compelling enemy AI and mechanics. Which the game really needs… being good at PvE right now is like being good at spelling your name. The skill ceiling is not that high with the enemys we got now.

I think this is the worst suggestion since GW1 beta.

Mireles Lore.5942:

Not going to happen. Why would they create something, have a sizeable part of the player base invest in it, and then take it away?

Careful with this question, it might open a much bigger can of worms than you’re going for….

Fractal reset…
Downgrading of champs to kill trains…
The upcoming trait system enhancement….

Anet giveth, but Anet hath proven that they can also taketh away.

Good topic btw, and valid points throughout. My issue is this, I LIKE having something to work for in the game, I want to feel rewarded for doing something that requires higher skill level or trying to find the advantages where I can.

Where things went off the rails was that Exotic is too easily accessible and it diminished all value of “top tier accomplishment” and by 6 months after launch it was the new common for any character level 80. The leveling is so quick that I am not even sure the Rare tier gets much play at all which is sad. Ascended at least made me feel like I could get something better, yeah I had to work hard to get it, but it wasn’t going to be just handed to me. And if that work gives me a greater reward for stats then I am in on that.

As its been said ad nauseum Ascended is not required (except high fractal) and it should not be, but man is it a great sense of accomplishment once you have it. I get everyone saying they don’t want gear grind but gear will always matter in MMO’s whether from min/max to fashion divas. But all gamers want accomplishment goals, and gear is the easiest way to give that.

tl/dr: Ascended is fine, reward for work about right, something to accomplish worth it.

Hawkeye.2903:

Where things went off the rails was that Exotic is too easily accessible and it diminished all value of “top tier accomplishment”

I disagree with this statement, but I am also a GW1 veteran. To me it should be easy to get BiS gear by the time you are max level. Then the rest of the game is simply about playing. About doing the things you enjoy for shinies that you like. And that’s what the game was sold as. That’s what we expected, and then they turned it on it’s ear.

The problem I saw was that there weren’t elite areas with super rare shinies to keep people entertained. There is no FoW or Vabbian armor. There is no Sorrow’s Furnace. There is no Urgoz Warren for that super rare awesomesauce bow skin. Yes, we have legendaries to strive for, but there weren’t enough of them. Not enough desirable variety. Not to mention farming in this game is awful.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve also played those other games where you must have ‘x’ armor rating / iLevel / whatever to progress to ‘y’ content. I hated it. The never ending gear slog. Always worrying about if I was “ready” to play, as opposed to just being able to go out and do it. I hated it, it’s part of the reason I don’t play those games. I thought I would find something different here, as I did with it’s predecessor. I thought they wanted to break that mold, and in the beginning they did. Unfortunately they weren’t able to stick to their vision, and it saddens me.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Hawkeye.2903:

Where things went off the rails was that Exotic is too easily accessible and it diminished all value of “top tier accomplishment”

I disagree with this statement, but I am also a GW1 veteran. To me it should be easy to get BiS gear by the time you are max level. Then the rest of the game is simply about playing. About doing the things you enjoy for shinies that you like. And that’s what the game was sold as. That’s what we expected, and then they turned it on it’s ear.

The problem I saw was that there weren’t elite areas with super rare shinies to keep people entertained. There is no FoW or Vabbian armor. There is no Sorrow’s Furnace. There is no Urgoz Warren for that super rare awesomesauce bow skin. Yes, we have legendaries to strive for, but there weren’t enough of them. Not enough desirable variety. Not to mention farming in this game is awful.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve also played those other games where you must have ‘x’ armor rating / iLevel / whatever to progress to ‘y’ content. I hated it. The never ending gear slog. Always worrying about if I was “ready” to play, as opposed to just being able to go out and do it. I hated it, it’s part of the reason I don’t play those games. I thought I would find something different here, as I did with it’s predecessor. I thought they wanted to break that mold, and in the beginning they did. Unfortunately they weren’t able to stick to their vision, and it saddens me.

I wasn’t a GW1 player – I cut my MMO teeth in WoW – but I still totally agree with you on this.

There are a lot of very good things about WoW (its success proves that), but the gear (stat) grind isn’t one of them, IMO.

This becomes even more apparent when you are, finally, (relatively) free of it.

They should have resisted importing it here, whatever some people may have asked for.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Hawkeye.2903:

Where things went off the rails was that Exotic is too easily accessible and it diminished all value of “top tier accomplishment”

I disagree with this statement, but I am also a GW1 veteran. To me it should be easy to get BiS gear by the time you are max level. Then the rest of the game is simply about playing. About doing the things you enjoy for shinies that you like. And that’s what the game was sold as. That’s what we expected, and then they turned it on it’s ear.

See and gw2 offers just that. content X is added and everyone can hop in and enjoy it.

Yet most people (who clearly don’t seem to own ascended) come and point fingers as if if ascended is the source of all problems.

Why can’t you people just play your game with exotic and pretend ascended is not there?

Why can’t you people appreciate the efforts some players have put in to craft ascended?

Why can’t you people just assume the fact that ascended changes NOTHING except giving players a goal to work for.

All i read here is bash, bash, bash
Wow comparisons wich are off the chart and don’t even make sense because you know, they are different games with different mechanics.

This game IS build arround cosmetics because if you are finished crafting ascended (wich you can skip if you cba about a minor stat boost) everything evolves arround backpieces / armor collections / mystic forged skins.

Did you know legendary weapons have the same stats as ascended? no one ever complained about that, wierd right?

really it’s not hard to get ascended gear. I’ve made 2 sets without buying much off the TP besides some lower tier cloth and the insignias. It takes some time to do it this way sure. My first set I grinded gold for and made it quickly. Either way ascended has been around for a long time now. I Haven’t played WoW but my understanding is that the BiS gear is always changing. That’s not the case here. You can be a casual player and still make a set within 6 or so months. It gives people something to do and work toward more than anything. Besides working toward a legendary, in PvE there isn’t much else to do.

No. It gives people something to work towards but isn’t necessary to have. I have a whopping 1 piece of Ascended simply because I felt like doing it.

It’s not a grind because it’s not required to do anything but Fractals.

The grind in WoW is terrible because you have to grind to get gear just to be able to compete in PvP.

Ascended should be buffed and majority of content should be balanced based off of exotics. Higher level fractals should be balanced based off of ascended gear outside of just agony resistance.

The adverseness to the “gear grind” is silly and actually false in how people use WoW style for comparision. Gear grind is only an issue if gear becomes redundant based off of new content. So when WoW released a expansion(usually raising the level cap) or a new area it made old gear useless and balancing of new areas needed better gear. This is what made the “gear grind” seem bad.

However in GW2 they don’t have plans to raise the level cap or balance things based off of higher tiered gear, which means even if they boost ascended it wouldn’t be needed and exotics would still do fine. If people are upset because they have the mentality of “needing the best”, then that is their own fault but doesn’t make the game a gear grind.

High level fractals I believe should be the only exemption to this. Since high level fractals already need some sort of ascended gear, balancing should be done off of ascended. Ofc they also need to add in a way to get ascended via fractals outside of just drops.

In short. Ascended could be buffed and it wouldn’t matter, GW2 isn’t designed the same as WoW and the gear treadmill isn’t required and is only in your head.

alwinp.2791:

See and gw2 offers just that. content X is added and everyone can hop in and enjoy it.

I am well aware that people can hop right on in and enjoy playing the game. I am well aware that one can leave for an extended period of time and come back and pick right back up where they left off. Yes, this is definitely a pro to GW1 and GW2, as they aren’t always extending the gear slog.

Yet most people (who clearly don’t seem to own ascended) come and point fingers as if if ascended is the source of all problems.

I own ascended, quite a bit of it actually. Unfortunately the root of most issues is actually people, but I can’t really do much about them. It is because of people that we ended up with a gear tier that we did not need because they needed a new carrot to keep them entertained.

Why can’t you people just play your game with exotic and pretend ascended is not there?

I am well aware that ascended is not necessary, that is not the point. In truth, armor in general isn’t really necessary, as has been proven time and again by the various people that have filmed themselves completing vast amounts of the GW2 content completely naked. However, that is still not the point.

Why can’t you people appreciate the efforts some players have put in to craft ascended?

Should I even bring up the people that simply whipped out their credit cards and exchanged gems to gold the day ascended was released so they could deck themselves out and rub it in peoples’ faces? Takes a lot of effort there, right?

However, it’s not about appreciating the effort, or lack of, involved in the acquisition. It’s about the principle behind ascended. It wasn’t necessary to begin with. It didn’t need to be the slog that it is. GW1 proved years ago that this type of gear implementation was not necessary.

Why can’t you people just assume the fact that ascended changes NOTHING except giving players a goal to work for.

Again, I am aware that ascended is not necessary, and that a lot of people (myself included) treat as just something to work towards. However, the hiccup here is that it is a new stat tier. It’s not just a prestige skin, which is all it should have been. It doesn’t matter how minor it is or isn’t. It is still BiS gear, locked behind grind and gating. Again, something GW1 proved that you did not have to do.

All i read here is bash, bash, bash
Wow comparisons wich are off the chart and don’t even make sense because you know, they are different games with different mechanics.

Yes, bash bash bash, except that I wasn’t. I didn’t say anything negative beyond that I didn’t agree with his statement and that I don’t like wow’s (and other games’) gear slog. Yes, WoW is a different game, and has different mechanics. However the aspect of “obtaining gear” and specifically BiS gear, are mechanics in common between both games, and thus can be discussed in relation to each other, and I was pointing out that I have tried those other option and why I didn’t like those either.

This game IS build arround cosmetics because if you are finished crafting ascended (wich you can skip if you cba about a minor stat boost) everything evolves arround backpieces / armor collections / mystic forged skins.

Yes, for the most part the game is based around cosmetics. I won’t argue that. I will argue that certain aspects of the game, such as ascended, were handled very poorly though.

Did you know legendary weapons have the same stats as ascended? no one ever complained about that, wierd right?

Of course I know that, and actually some people are calling for legendaries to have their own tier of stats above BiS. Have been calling for it even before ascended came out, back when they didn’t have stat swapping and were only on par with exotics as BiS.

Let me tell you a little story about Ascended gear and it’s creation. While working on Fractals, people that actually played the game where reaching max levels on crafting and equipment after only 3 – 4 weeks, and having ‘nothing’ to keep them playing the game as they had “completed” all the content already. So, in order to give these players something to do in the long term, they came up with Ascended gear, and included the Agony infusion slots on that to do higher tier Fractals with, which is why it was introduced at the same time as Fractals. It’s only required for Fractals, not necessary for PvE or WvW, yes, it gives an insignificant boost to stats, but those same boosts can be gained almost completely through Ascended weapons only, without the need for Ascended armor, this has been argued ad nauseum, it’s been mathematically documented. If you don’t want it, then don’t make it, you don’t need it, but it was instituted for a reason…to give a long term goal other than a Legendary to players to keep them busy while new content was being worked on, nothing more, nothing less.

Don’t you have any will to work towards some goal in the game? Here I am hoping for some thing new (gearwise – Gimmeh legendary armor!!!) to work towards in this expansion and you are asking the whole game to be taken a step backwards……

None of the content in this game puts pressure on players to get special gear except fractals which one can avoid. We only recently had a massive discussion on how the game is skill based and gear has lower importance….Its just to make your toon LOOK cool!!

Ankushp.7245:

.Its just to make your toon LOOK cool!!

I’m going to highlight this point.

If gear is only necessary to look cool, why did they have to make it a new stat tier? Why did it need to be locked behind grind and gating? Why couldn’t it have just a been a skin?

Legandaries share the same stats as BiS gear. They were exactly what you’re talking about, just there to make you look cool.

And then we got ascended, which was a whole new stat tier….

I have no issue with having a goal to work towards. I have many. Simply being able to “have” best in slot gear shouldn’t be one of them though.

Regardless of any specific advantages to making exotic equivalent to ascended, I can’t imagine any reason why ANet would choose to go that route.

• It would create a huge outcry among people who made ascended for the additional stats (however small they might be).
• It would greatly diminish the demand for T2-5 wood/cloth/ore/leather, which would be ultimately damaging to the economy.
• It would be a lot of effort to make the change (more QA than new code, but still).

There would need to be a compelling counter-reason to go against the above and so far, I haven’t seen anyone make a case that there’s even a hint of an idea that would get ANet to reconsider.

Mireles Lore.5942:

Not going to happen. Why would they create something, have a sizeable part of the player base invest in it, and then take it away?

Because introducing ascended gear was one of the worst ideas they had?

There were lot of changes that took away things from players in this game that were way less justified than removing/downgrading ascended tier would be.

alwinp.2791:

Why can’t you people just play your game with exotic and pretend ascended is not there?

Because it is there. And why couldn’t you have an ascended with the same stats as exotics, and “just pretend” this gear is better, instead of it really being better? Especially since you yourself are saying that the stat difference doesn’t matter for you at all?

alwinp.2791:

Why can’t you people appreciate the efforts some players have put in to craft ascended?

I do appreciate it. Yet it doesn’t change the fact that existence of ascended gear diminishes my enjoyment of the game.

alwinp.2791:

Why can’t you people just assume the fact that ascended changes NOTHING except giving players a goal to work for.

i wouldn’t call ~+20% dps bonus on zerkers (full exo vs full ascended) to be nothing. Besides, the problem goes beyond mere stats – it changes the core ideology behind the game away from things i bought this game for.

alwinp.2791:

This game IS build arround cosmetics because if you are finished crafting ascended (wich you can skip if you cba about a minor stat boost) everything evolves arround backpieces / armor collections / mystic forged skins.

But i can’t skip it, because for me it’s not a boost i can just ignore. And thus i need to first get through the gear grind i dislike before i will be able to do things i like. And the gear grind in ascended case is definitely not insignificant.

alwinp.2791:

Did you know legendary weapons have the same stats as ascended? no one ever complained about that, wierd right?

Did you know that legendary weapons originally had exotic stats, and were elevated to ascended level only after that tier’s introduction? We don’t complain about legendary stats, because they have ascended stats. Which we do complain against.

nolop.8095:

HoT is the perfect opportunity to up the stats of exotics to be on par with ascended items.
Having no equipment spiral has always been one of the best things about GW.

So why not take this chance to even out the playing field and adjust the stats to one base level.

Now you might think the stat difference is rather small and has no significant impact. But if you compar it to other games like WoW, wich is pretty much the poster child for an endless gear treadmill, you can see the stat increase is about the same as in WoW, percentage wise.

If ANet comes through with their promises of “truly chalenging PvE content” I can’t help but wonder what this content will be balanced around.

If it’s balanced for exotics the hardcore crowd will just plow through the contend and be disappointed because it’s no challenge.
On the other hand if it’s balanced around ascended gear we will have a hard split in the community, at least in dungeons ect.

I’d be very interested to know how people who have all the ascended stuff would feel about a change like this.

I would think a change like this would be completely stupid because it’s a waste of time to change it, doesn’t affect anyone that doesn’t have Ascended gear, affects those with Ascended gear negatively and defeats the purpose of having Ascended items in the first place.

Astralporing.1957:

alwinp.2791:

Why can’t you people just assume the fact that ascended changes NOTHING except giving players a goal to work for.

i wouldn’t call ~+20% dps bonus on zerkers (full exo vs full ascended) to be nothing. Besides, the problem goes beyond mere stats – it changes the core ideology behind the game away from things i bought this game for.

Exagerate much? Here read up:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/159ml1oahEyM6zWQ-oD4XQcHsk1mI5G6tVnjk_FOeinA/edit?pli=1#gid=348011649

It’s 10% and that is with a majority of this bonus comming from trinkets (the easiest to aquire ascended),a medium part from weapons (the in between ascended), and a very minor part from armor (the by far biggest chunk with lowest return).

Games change, ascended is here to stay. Learn to deal with it and enjoy the game or not, your call.

no , bad idea, ascended is a mean to spend time on, wtf should i do with all my money , another legendary ? i got already all i like, only causuals think ascended armor is grind

First, I must say that I love gear grind in other mmo but I can live without it in GW2 as the game is superb in other aspects like combat.

I have crafted one set of ascended armor for my main using mostly mats from wvwvw. I recently changed build. Now I am in full exo armor and crafted asc set and lots of other dropped asc armor pieces are rotting in bank. I have no need for asc armor but it is important for sense of progress to be able to collect mats for something. Eventually, propably in year or two I have all asc in this new build also but that is insignificant.

Balance in GW2 is not around armor but party/team composition, skills and traits.

nolop.8095:

The difference is just a very small number yet this very small number makes a world of difference to people.
The most fascinating part is how some of you are able to passionately support two contradictory points.

The stats don’t matter; The stats are everything.

If someone would figure out how that works in the human brain they cold make you spend all your money on .. well nothing essentially ^^

Now new in the gamble chest thingamagig “the Tome of +1 power” increases the power of you character by 1 ! (can be used once per character)

To clarify for those who don’t understand, because this has been said a few times now, people are not supporting contradictory points. To understand what we mean you have to recognize the difference between the game and the individual. The stats do not matter to the game. They are negligible. All of the content in this game is still easy with full exotic. However, the reason we are claiming that the stats are everything is that they are everything TO THE INDIVIDUAL. I value the numbers not because they are going to change the game for me and allow me to sweep over content that you could hardly attempt, but because I like having the biggest numbers on my character.

Your “Tome of +1 power” is a perfect example. I would go apekitten over this and work my butt off for it. It holds the same value that ascended has. It is not a game changer. It is not necessary. The stats don’t matter to the game. They matter to me. If you close the gap, they lose that personal meaning and I just spent ages working towards something I don’t want any more. Nobody should be bothered by the gap because, as far as the game is concerned, it really is meaningless, and you casuals in your exotic tier armor can do anything that I can do in my ascended armor.

Idk how to do more than one quote (it’s super cool how you people do that. I’m going to figure it out some day), but this is for the guy who quoted me and said we shouldn’t make ascended for the stats, we should make it simply because it’s endgame content. That’s really stupid, and I’m not quite sure what else to say about it. What would be the point? Maybe I’m misinterpreting what you said or remembering it wrong or something. But if I’m understanding correctly, that’s just a really silly idea.

in response to another previous post about legendaries, this is a REALLY GOOD POINT. I didn’t think about it because I don’t have one. Would those of you who would have the armor gap closed also have the weapon gap closed so that legendaries are the same stats as exotics? And if not, why is that different?

Ascended is only useful for Fractals, and even then, you can get away with just making a set of weapons you use on a regular basis (can get to 70 AR without a single piece of armor). Trinkets are easy to get (and makes it useless to ever update Jeweler to include 400-500). Two weapons (since I use S/P, D/D and SB as a Thief in Fractals, I went for all 5), full set of trinkets/backpiece and 3x+10 Agony infusions in infused equipment gives 70AR without the armor pieces, at a reduced cost (even factoring in the cost of infusing the backpiece).

If you don’t step foot in Fractals, Ascended armor or weapons aren’t necessary.

What I would like to see is more ways to acquire ascended gear outside of Crafting, requiring significant time and effort. Bioluminescence and Ambrite weapons are a good example of collections with an Ascended armor reward – would like to see something like that tied to Fractal rewards, where you can do a repeated set of collections or achievements for Ascended armor/weapon boxes (in addition to RNG drops). This gives a time-based alternative to getting Ascended equipment as opposed to the current gold sink. Players who can afford to pay the gold to craft Ascended gear can still go for it and save the time/effort of alternative methods.

Godmoney.2048:

nolop.8095:

Well you first explain how the stats don’t matter at all and then you say they are the only reason to ever to craft ascended items. This contradicts itself.

If the stats are irrelevant now, there is already no reason to craft ascended gear according to your statement.

However I see a lot of players using it.

It appears to me like the stats are indeed very significant, so much, that they justify the massive grind required to get them.

“If the stats are irrelevant now, there is already no reason to craft ascended gear according to your statement.”

This^ There are many threads explaining just how meaningless ascended is. One reddit poster even did the math and showed that wearing ascended while in lower level zones nerfs you because of scaling.

There really is not reason to make the armor unless you’re like me and just have nothing else to work towards.

Wow, thar reddit poster and you are so clueless. Example : full exotic is 1000 power. You get downscaled, u now have 50% of it, thats 500.
Full ascended is 1100 power, now same downscaling 50% thats 550. How on earth did you get more nerfed by having stronger gear

Ukila.8923:

Godmoney.2048:

nolop.8095:

Well you first explain how the stats don’t matter at all and then you say they are the only reason to ever to craft ascended items. This contradicts itself.

If the stats are irrelevant now, there is already no reason to craft ascended gear according to your statement.

However I see a lot of players using it.

It appears to me like the stats are indeed very significant, so much, that they justify the massive grind required to get them.

“If the stats are irrelevant now, there is already no reason to craft ascended gear according to your statement.”

This^ There are many threads explaining just how meaningless ascended is. One reddit poster even did the math and showed that wearing ascended while in lower level zones nerfs you because of scaling.

There really is not reason to make the armor unless you’re like me and just have nothing else to work towards.

Wow, thar reddit poster and you are so clueless. Example : full exotic is 1000 power. You get downscaled, u now have 50% of it, thats 500.
Full ascended is 1100 power, now same downscaling 50% thats 550. How on earth did you get more nerfed by having stronger gear

You’re assuming that down-scaling is a flat percentage reduction. What if it isn’t? It’s easy enough for someone to test, and in the posts I’ve seen discussing the issue, the poster claims to have looked at the actual numbers — the regular L80 numbers and the down-scaled (green) numbers while in a lower level.

Another way to do it (and this is for discussion only, I’m not saying it works this way) would be with a hard cap on stats. That is, your power will be no higher than the power attainable by an on-level character in Tier X gear.

So, where did you get the information that down-scaling is a flat percentage reduction?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dynamic_level_adjustment

The information on the wiki page is inconclusive. The first note suggests that stats are reduced multiplicatively. However, the intro section states, "For example, in PvE, a character with an actual level of 50 in a level 10 area will have their attributes reduced to an “effective level” equal to a level 11 character (maximum level for the area +1)." This suggests max stat caps, though those with mad math skills may be able to display an equation that could accomplish the same thing via multiplication.

I don’t think at ascended gear is too strong. Its just as intended, a small increase for those who want to max it. And you can get ascended accessories quite casually.
I wish there was a way to get asceded gear without crafting ( no you will never drop a full set and then it won’t be the stats you want). I don’t like crafting.

With the stat changes there is a chance that Ascended might become imbalanced in one way or another. Since equips are getting buffed they might either have a bigger difference in stats and so they will have a relative buff or it might stay the same and so get a relative nerf.

Pride.1734:

I don’t think at ascended gear is too strong. Its just as intended, a small increase for those who want to max it. And you can get ascended accessories quite casually.
I wish there was a way to get asceded gear without crafting ( no you will never drop a full set and then it won’t be the stats you want). I don’t like crafting.

With the stat changes there is a chance that Ascended might become imbalanced in one way or another. Since equips are getting buffed they might either have a bigger difference in stats and so they will have a relative buff or it might stay the same and so get a relative nerf.

What I’m expecting when stats get taken off traits is that the stat buffs to gear will be flat increases regardless of gear tier. If this happens, then everyone stays at around the same stat totals they had before. Ascended users would get neither a buff nor a nerf. Remember, the stat points from traits are available to everyone, and thus represent a constant. The least disruption to the current stat distributions would be obtained by having stat boosts to gear be a constant regardless of gear tier.

If they were to go with percentage boosts, then they’d have to choose a gear tier to be the baseline. If they choose Asc, then Asc. users would stay relatively the same, but users of every other tier would get a nerf. If they choose a lower tier, any tier above the baseline would get a buff. One of the selling points of Asc. to those who didn’t what it was the small gap between Asc. and exotic. Increasing that gap could not only trivialize and further invalidate existing content, it could anger a lot of players.

Either way, I don’t see Ascended users taking any more of a stat nerf than was implied with the statement “This should account for most of the missing points.”

IndigoSundown.5419:

What I’m expecting when stats get taken off traits is that the stat buffs to gear will be flat increases regardless of gear tier. If this happens, then everyone stays at around the same stat totals they had before. Ascended users would get neither a buff nor a nerf. Remember, the stat points from traits are available to everyone, and thus represent a constant. The least disruption to the current stat distributions would be obtained by having stat boosts to gear be a constant regardless of gear tier.

That would only apply if the stats of your trait lines are 100% the same as your gear which is rarely(never) the case. If the difference stays the same number but the overall stats of the gear get buffed then ascended gives a relatively smaller increase.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ukila.8923:

Godmoney.2048:

nolop.8095:

Well you first explain how the stats don’t matter at all and then you say they are the only reason to ever to craft ascended items. This contradicts itself.

If the stats are irrelevant now, there is already no reason to craft ascended gear according to your statement.

However I see a lot of players using it.

It appears to me like the stats are indeed very significant, so much, that they justify the massive grind required to get them.

“If the stats are irrelevant now, there is already no reason to craft ascended gear according to your statement.”

This^ There are many threads explaining just how meaningless ascended is. One reddit poster even did the math and showed that wearing ascended while in lower level zones nerfs you because of scaling.

There really is not reason to make the armor unless you’re like me and just have nothing else to work towards.

Wow, thar reddit poster and you are so clueless. Example : full exotic is 1000 power. You get downscaled, u now have 50% of it, thats 500.
Full ascended is 1100 power, now same downscaling 50% thats 550. How on earth did you get more nerfed by having stronger gear

You’re assuming that down-scaling is a flat percentage reduction. What if it isn’t? It’s easy enough for someone to test, and in the posts I’ve seen discussing the issue, the poster claims to have looked at the actual numbers — the regular L80 numbers and the down-scaled (green) numbers while in a lower level.

Another way to do it (and this is for discussion only, I’m not saying it works this way) would be with a hard cap on stats. That is, your power will be no higher than the power attainable by an on-level character in Tier X gear.

So, where did you get the information that down-scaling is a flat percentage reduction?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dynamic_level_adjustment

The information on the wiki page is inconclusive. The first note suggests that stats are reduced multiplicatively. However, the intro section states, "For example, in PvE, a character with an actual level of 50 in a level 10 area will have their attributes reduced to an “effective level” equal to a level 11 character (maximum level for the area +1)." This suggests max stat caps, though those with mad math skills may be able to display an equation that could accomplish the same thing via multiplication.

That might be true, but the same downscale ‘rule’ would apply for both characters, one in full exo and the other full ascended. Worst case is that they are the same if it gets hard capped to a certain amount. In no scenario would wearing stronger gear make you weaker than a dude with gear thats worse than yours

Cyninja.2954:

Astralporing.1957:

alwinp.2791:

Why can’t you people just assume the fact that ascended changes NOTHING except giving players a goal to work for.

i wouldn’t call ~+20% dps bonus on zerkers (full exo vs full ascended) to be nothing. Besides, the problem goes beyond mere stats – it changes the core ideology behind the game away from things i bought this game for.

Exagerate much? Here read up:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/159ml1oahEyM6zWQ-oD4XQcHsk1mI5G6tVnjk_FOeinA/edit?pli=1#gid=348011649

It’s 10% and that is with a majority of this bonus comming from trinkets (the easiest to aquire ascended),a medium part from weapons (the in between ascended), and a very minor part from armor (the by far biggest chunk with lowest return).

Okay, adding might stacks, fury and other buffs does change the calculation a bit, downplaying the effect of ascended. Still, +11% is still a significant bonus. Actually, to think of it, if you are a person that always fights with full buffs, then +11% dps (well, +12.5%, since you’d likely have infusions as well) is definitely a huge bonus.

Cyninja.2954:

Games change, ascended is here to stay. Learn to deal with it and enjoy the game or not, your call.

As you say, games change. It changed once in a way that i dislike due to few people crying, so i see no reason why it couldn’t change the other way someday if i won’t give up on it.

And a bit on topic. If you are too lazy or too poor ingame or what ever reason you have for not being full ascended, that is your problem. I do not want my effort in making my ascended armor and weapons that i made for that increase in stats and infusions to go to waste.

Anet, please remove the awesome effects from legendaries cause the exotics dont have them and im too lazy to farm for one

nolop.8095:

HoT is the perfect opportunity to up the stats of exotics to be on par with ascended items.
Having no equipment spiral has always been one of the best things about GW.

So why not take this chance to even out the playing field and adjust the stats to one base level.

Now you might think the stat difference is rather small and has no significant impact. But if you compar it to other games like WoW, wich is pretty much the poster child for an endless gear treadmill, you can see the stat increase is about the same as in WoW, percentage wise.

If ANet comes through with their promises of “truly chalenging PvE content” I can’t help but wonder what this content will be balanced around.

If it’s balanced for exotics the hardcore crowd will just plow through the contend and be disappointed because it’s no challenge.
On the other hand if it’s balanced around ascended gear we will have a hard split in the community, at least in dungeons ect.

I’d be very interested to know how people who have all the ascended stuff would feel about a change like this.

First of all no.
Second of all no.
Third of all no.

You said yourself the difference is minor and has no significant impact. Why would that mean the hardcore crowd is going to go through the content super fast? If the difference is minor its impact will be minor.

Also the hardcore players are going to burn through the content fast anyway. Why? Because they’re hardcore and that’s how they play. I’m freeing up 1 week of schedule time for when the xpack drops. That’s why I’m going to get through it fast – not because of my gear.

So once again – no.