Guild Wars 2

People complaining about the cloth prices are a frequent reoccurence on the forums.

One suggestion that I hear often is to introduce harvesting nodes for cloth in the open world to bring in more supply of cloth and bring prices down.

However, wood prices have been on the rise for a long time now and actually are more expensive than cloth by now.
1 each tier one to t6 cloth scrap costs you 15.8s while 1 each tier one to t6 wood logs costs you 16.3s.

As we all know, wood nodes are scattered all over tyria and can be directly farmed.
But if people dont go out to farm the more expensive wood directly, why do people expect them to go out and farm cloth directly?

Wvw players have money from cloth stuffs. Come and play wvw

McWolfy.5924:

Wvw players have money from cloth stuffs. Come and play wvw

I dont really have a lack of gold in game and I play wvw several hours a day.

Wanze.8410:

People complaining about the cloth prices are a frequent reoccurence on the forums.

One suggestion that I hear often is to introduce harvesting nodes for cloth in the open world to bring in more supply of cloth and bring prices down.

However, wood prices have been on the rise for a long time now and actually are more expensive than cloth by now.
1 each kitten cloth scrap costs you 15.8s while 1 each kitten wood logs costs you 16.3s.

As we all know, wood nodes are scattered all over tyria and can be directly farmed.
But if people dont go out to farm the more expensive wood directly, why do people expect them to go out and farm cloth directly?

Its not about fixing prices, its about the price representing a “fair” value.

A person buying wood is paying a price they think its worth not to do it themselves. Since cloth isnt targetable they often feel isnt a fair value.

All that aside, either there is a huge demand spike, or the economy has inflated if hrd wood is 16 silver. In either case it becomes are poor point for your premise

Which scraps & logs are the “kitten” ones? Have to love that filter. I can’t seem to locate any near the prices that you mentioned.

People already farm the wood nodes directly. I’m guilty of it. If there were cloth nodes, I’d grab them as well. Which would at least in theory create more supply.

I wouldn’t care what the price of cloth would be if we had this, because I can reliably go and harvest it myself and have no need to check the prices the smae as I don’t for wood or ore.

Oh i didnt see the kitten filter. I mean 1 each tier 1 to tier 6 cloth craps and wood logs.

Erus Keb.8379:

Which scraps & logs are the “kitten” ones? Have to love that filter. I can’t seem to locate any near the prices that you mentioned.

People already farm the wood nodes directly. I’m guilty of it. If there were cloth nodes, I’d grab them as well. Which would at least in theory create more supply.

I am inclined to believe that it wouldn’t necessarily create more supply. If anything it would certainly make it “easier” for people to craft ascended (which is one of the major arguments for having cloth nodes) to help reduce costs. However, once said cloth is gathered and used, it’s effectively destroyed.
If anything there would be a small trickle of cloth into the market as people gather along the way and sell what they have. The supply might increase slightly, but not so much as to make the prices come down a significant amount.
I wouldn’t imagine that a significant amount people would just farm cloth all day long just to sell. As it is people in general hate farming, and do everything to avoid it.

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

People complaining about the cloth prices are a frequent reoccurence on the forums.

One suggestion that I hear often is to introduce harvesting nodes for cloth in the open world to bring in more supply of cloth and bring prices down.

However, wood prices have been on the rise for a long time now and actually are more expensive than cloth by now.
1 each kitten cloth scrap costs you 15.8s while 1 each kitten wood logs costs you 16.3s.

As we all know, wood nodes are scattered all over tyria and can be directly farmed.
But if people dont go out to farm the more expensive wood directly, why do people expect them to go out and farm cloth directly?

Its not about fixing prices, its about the price representing a “fair” value.

A person buying wood is paying a price they think its worth not to do it themselves. Since cloth isnt targetable they often feel isnt a fair value.

All that aside, either there is a huge demand spike, or the economy has inflated if hrd wood is 16 silver. In either case it becomes are poor point for your premise

Games are boring if all core mats have near-identical acquisition requirements. People can farm cloth through a variety of methods. The difference is that none of them are ‘direct’ as going to a node, pressing a button, and waiting.

Similarly, Wanze’s point about nodes not being the (entire) answer is still valid, especially if the reason for the price increase is a demand spike. Ancient Wood is just as easily farmed today as it was before any spike and people aren’t (apparently) choosing to do so. That means, the vast majority of the current market is made up of those who would still rather pay someone else to farm it. It is likely that this would also be true for cloth nodes, too.

tl;dr cloth nodes are demonstrably not a simple fix to a perceived cloth-supply issue

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

People complaining about the cloth prices are a frequent reoccurence on the forums.

One suggestion that I hear often is to introduce harvesting nodes for cloth in the open world to bring in more supply of cloth and bring prices down.

However, wood prices have been on the rise for a long time now and actually are more expensive than cloth by now.
1 each kitten cloth scrap costs you 15.8s while 1 each kitten wood logs costs you 16.3s.

As we all know, wood nodes are scattered all over tyria and can be directly farmed.
But if people dont go out to farm the more expensive wood directly, why do people expect them to go out and farm cloth directly?

Its not about fixing prices, its about the price representing a “fair” value.

A person buying wood is paying a price they think its worth not to do it themselves. Since cloth isnt targetable they often feel isnt a fair value.

All that aside, either there is a huge demand spike, or the economy has inflated if hrd wood is 16 silver. In either case it becomes are poor point for your premise

Games are boring if all core mats have near-identical acquisition requirements. People can farm cloth through a variety of methods. The difference is that none of them are ‘direct’ as going to a node, pressing a button, and waiting.

Similarly, Wanze’s point about nodes not being the (entire) answer is still valid, especially if the reason for the price increase is a demand spike. Ancient Wood is just as easily farmed today as it was before any spike and people aren’t (apparently) choosing to do so. That means, the vast majority of the current market is made up of those who would still rather pay someone else to farm it. It is likely that this would also be true for cloth nodes, too.

tl;dr cloth nodes are demonstrably not a simple fix to a perceived cloth-supply issue

Ancient wood is not as easily farmed as it used to be, megaserver changed it.

Also he was apparently packaging teirs in his analysis.

And any good with a more elastic supply responds better to demand spikes

Whether the methods are the same is irrelevant. You could create a different method completely, and still have it be directly obtainable.

His analysis is flawed regardless because it doesnt consider how much and for what its needed.

phys.7689:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

People complaining about the cloth prices are a frequent reoccurence on the forums.

One suggestion that I hear often is to introduce harvesting nodes for cloth in the open world to bring in more supply of cloth and bring prices down.

However, wood prices have been on the rise for a long time now and actually are more expensive than cloth by now.
1 each kitten cloth scrap costs you 15.8s while 1 each kitten wood logs costs you 16.3s.

As we all know, wood nodes are scattered all over tyria and can be directly farmed.
But if people dont go out to farm the more expensive wood directly, why do people expect them to go out and farm cloth directly?

Its not about fixing prices, its about the price representing a “fair” value.

A person buying wood is paying a price they think its worth not to do it themselves. Since cloth isnt targetable they often feel isnt a fair value.

All that aside, either there is a huge demand spike, or the economy has inflated if hrd wood is 16 silver. In either case it becomes are poor point for your premise

Games are boring if all core mats have near-identical acquisition requirements. People can farm cloth through a variety of methods. The difference is that none of them are ‘direct’ as going to a node, pressing a button, and waiting.

Similarly, Wanze’s point about nodes not being the (entire) answer is still valid, especially if the reason for the price increase is a demand spike. Ancient Wood is just as easily farmed today as it was before any spike and people aren’t (apparently) choosing to do so. That means, the vast majority of the current market is made up of those who would still rather pay someone else to farm it. It is likely that this would also be true for cloth nodes, too.

tl;dr cloth nodes are demonstrably not a simple fix to a perceived cloth-supply issue

Ancient wood is not as easily farmed as it used to be, megaserver changed it.

Also he was apparently packaging teirs in his analysis.

And any good with a more elastic supply responds better to price spikes.

Whether the methods are the same is irrelevant. You could create a different method completely, and still have it be directly obtainable.

His analysis is flawed regardless because it doesnt consider how much and for what its needed.

If you would have bothered to check the price evolution of the different wood logs you would have noticed that ancient wood is the log whose price has been the most stable in the last 2 months. The spike in wood value more came from the other tiers and those are still easily farmable with megaservers.

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

People complaining about the cloth prices are a frequent reoccurence on the forums.

One suggestion that I hear often is to introduce harvesting nodes for cloth in the open world to bring in more supply of cloth and bring prices down.

However, wood prices have been on the rise for a long time now and actually are more expensive than cloth by now.
1 each kitten cloth scrap costs you 15.8s while 1 each kitten wood logs costs you 16.3s.

As we all know, wood nodes are scattered all over tyria and can be directly farmed.
But if people dont go out to farm the more expensive wood directly, why do people expect them to go out and farm cloth directly?

Its not about fixing prices, its about the price representing a “fair” value.

A person buying wood is paying a price they think its worth not to do it themselves. Since cloth isnt targetable they often feel isnt a fair value.

All that aside, either there is a huge demand spike, or the economy has inflated if hrd wood is 16 silver. In either case it becomes are poor point for your premise

Games are boring if all core mats have near-identical acquisition requirements. People can farm cloth through a variety of methods. The difference is that none of them are ‘direct’ as going to a node, pressing a button, and waiting.

Similarly, Wanze’s point about nodes not being the (entire) answer is still valid, especially if the reason for the price increase is a demand spike. Ancient Wood is just as easily farmed today as it was before any spike and people aren’t (apparently) choosing to do so. That means, the vast majority of the current market is made up of those who would still rather pay someone else to farm it. It is likely that this would also be true for cloth nodes, too.

tl;dr cloth nodes are demonstrably not a simple fix to a perceived cloth-supply issue

Ancient wood is not as easily farmed as it used to be, megaserver changed it.

Also he was apparently packaging teirs in his analysis.

And any good with a more elastic supply responds better to price spikes.

Whether the methods are the same is irrelevant. You could create a different method completely, and still have it be directly obtainable.

His analysis is flawed regardless because it doesnt consider how much and for what its needed.

If you would have bothered to check the price evolution of the different wood logs you would have noticed that ancient wood is the log whose price has been the most stable in the last 2 months. The spike in wood value more came from the other tiers and those are still easily farmable with megaservers.

I dont think ancient wood is relevant to anything. I was merely pointing out ancient wood is not a representive of the other wood teirs.

Aggregating the values of different products is one of the big problems with your analysis

“Cloth harvesting nodes wont change prices”

Wanze, is that really you?

Wanze.8410:

I dont really have a lack of gold in game and I play wvw several hours a day.

Yeah, it’s you.

Never expected that declaration to come from you, but since you’re on the subject…

Wanze.8410:

As we all know, wood nodes are scattered all over tyria and can be directly farmed.
But if people dont go out to farm the more expensive wood directly, why do people expect them to go out and farm cloth directly?

kratan.4619:

I wouldn’t care what the price of cloth would be if we had this, because I can reliably go and harvest it myself and have no need to check the prices the smae as I don’t for wood or ore.

Bearing these two things in mind, I find myself agreeing with kratan. I don’t so much care about the price, as I do about being able to go get it myself. So, if it wouldn’t lower prices to have them in game, would it break anything to add them? Keep in mind, I don’t want to see the economy thrown out of whack more than it already may be. I’m curious about your analysis though. (also curious about the opinion of one JS)

Aside from the argument of resource allocation from the dev team, what do you think?

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

tl;dr cloth nodes are demonstrably not a simple fix to a perceived cloth-supply issue

There probably is really no simple fix, but would it help?

Mojo Gris Gris.5941:

“Cloth harvesting nodes wont change prices”

Wanze, is that really you?

Wanze.8410:

I dont really have a lack of gold in game and I play wvw several hours a day.

Yeah, it’s you.

Never expected that declaration to come from you, but since you’re on the subject…

Wanze.8410:

As we all know, wood nodes are scattered all over tyria and can be directly farmed.
But if people dont go out to farm the more expensive wood directly, why do people expect them to go out and farm cloth directly?

kratan.4619:

I wouldn’t care what the price of cloth would be if we had this, because I can reliably go and harvest it myself and have no need to check the prices the smae as I don’t for wood or ore.

Bearing these two things in mind, I find myself agreeing with kratan. I don’t so much care about the price, as I do about being able to go get it myself. So, if it wouldn’t lower prices to have them in game, would it break anything to add them? Keep in mind, I don’t want to see the economy thrown out of whack more than it already may be. I’m curious about your analysis though. (also curious about the opinion of one JS)

Aside from the argument of resource allocation from the dev team, what do you think?

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

tl;dr cloth nodes are demonstrably not a simple fix to a perceived cloth-supply issue

There probably is really no simple fix, but would it help?

If cloth nodes were implemented, they would have to take it off alot of other loot tables to balance out the supply. I should have mentioned that in my OP.

Right now, cloth can hardly be target farmed, the mayority of supply is basically a side product of killing mobs, we cant really alter our gameplay to significantly push our droprate for cloth, like we can do for wood. We also cant really avoid getting it either.

So if we would shift cloth drops to an easier targetable approach and for example nerf the salvage rate on light armor, I doubt that the overall price for damask would go down.

Only a small amount of people would actually go out every day and farm their cloth for damask because timewise, it would still be more effective to just follow the zerg in SW and buy whatever cloth you didnt get there.

Wanze.8410:

Only a small amount of people would actually go out every day and farm their cloth for damask because timewise, it would still be more effective to just follow the zerg in SW and buy whatever cloth you didnt get there.

All good points, but I suspect this is where the rubber meets the road in regards to your observation on wood prices. Just substitute wood for cloth.

Wanze.8410:

Mojo Gris Gris.5941:

“Cloth harvesting nodes wont change prices”

Wanze, is that really you?

Wanze.8410:

I dont really have a lack of gold in game and I play wvw several hours a day.

Yeah, it’s you.

Never expected that declaration to come from you, but since you’re on the subject…

Wanze.8410:

As we all know, wood nodes are scattered all over tyria and can be directly farmed.
But if people dont go out to farm the more expensive wood directly, why do people expect them to go out and farm cloth directly?

kratan.4619:

I wouldn’t care what the price of cloth would be if we had this, because I can reliably go and harvest it myself and have no need to check the prices the smae as I don’t for wood or ore.

Bearing these two things in mind, I find myself agreeing with kratan. I don’t so much care about the price, as I do about being able to go get it myself. So, if it wouldn’t lower prices to have them in game, would it break anything to add them? Keep in mind, I don’t want to see the economy thrown out of whack more than it already may be. I’m curious about your analysis though. (also curious about the opinion of one JS)

Aside from the argument of resource allocation from the dev team, what do you think?

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

tl;dr cloth nodes are demonstrably not a simple fix to a perceived cloth-supply issue

There probably is really no simple fix, but would it help?

If cloth nodes were implemented, they would have to take it off alot of other loot tables to balance out the supply. I should have mentioned that in my OP.

Right now, cloth can hardly be target farmed, the mayority of supply is basically a side product of killing mobs, we cant really alter our gameplay to significantly push our droprate for cloth, like we can do for wood. We also cant really avoid getting it either.

So if we would shift cloth drops to an easier targetable approach and for example nerf the salvage rate on light armor, I doubt that the overall price for damask would go down.

Only a small amount of people would actually go out every day and farm their cloth for damask because timewise, it would still be more effective to just follow the zerg in SW and buy whatever cloth you didnt get there.

You reasoning is circular, you are basically saying,

If they added nodes AND rebalnced drop rates such that the prices didnt change, then the prices would stay the same.

To be clear im not saying prices are guaranteed to get lower with nodes, but that has more to do with factors like supply demand how much people can earn farming gold and how much they save farming materials.

In some situations nodes will have no effect in others it will have a large effect.

The main thing nodes does is create a more elastic supply, and set a more direct value for cloth based on desire and effort

phys.7689:

You reasoning is circular, you are basically saying,

If they added nodes AND rebalnced drop rates such that the prices didnt change, then the prices would stay the same.

To be clear im not saying prices are guaranteed to get lower with nodes, but that has more to do with factors like supply demand how much people can earn farming gold and how much they save farming materials.

In some situations nodes will have no effect in others it will have a large effect.

The main thing nodes does is create a more elastic supply, and set a more direct value for cloth based on desire and effort

I am not sure if you are saying anything at all.
I guess my main point would be that more elastic cloth supply wouldnt really bring the price of damask down.

It might not be so much that it would effect prices as much as people would rather farm it directly off of plant nodes. They want a “sure thing” rather than a chance to get it.

Wanze.8410:

Right now, cloth can hardly be target farmed, the mayority of supply is basically a side product of killing mobs, we cant really alter our gameplay to significantly push our droprate for cloth, like we can do for wood.

Of course you can alter your game play to affect your cloth intake. Event chains that have lots of mobs, drop lots of cloth, as gear or in containers. Back in the early days before ascended was in the game, leather was in short supply and some of us farmed the Harathi Centaur/Seraph chain for that.

The main difference with logging or mining is that you don’t have to go looking for it, making it trivial to focus-farm.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

tl;dr cloth nodes are demonstrably not a simple fix to a perceived cloth-supply issue

Mojo Gris Gris.5941:

There probably is really no simple fix, but would it help?

Would it increase the supply? Yes. Would it help? Not enough in my opinion, because I don’t think anyone has demonstrated that there’s a critical market failure that needs to be addressed. I don’t see any reason why cloth and metal have to have comparable acquisition methods let alone comparable prices.

To me, the only issue is that people perceive that there’s an issue. (And sure, it could make sense for ANet to address that — John Smith, will you be summoned?)

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It might not be so much that it would effect prices as much as people would rather farm it directly off of plant nodes. They want a “sure thing” rather than a chance to get it.

I think most people just want direct nodes because they want damask to be cheaper, not because they will be directly able to farm it.

Wanze.8410:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It might not be so much that it would effect prices as much as people would rather farm it directly off of plant nodes. They want a “sure thing” rather than a chance to get it.

I think most people just want direct nodes because they want damask to be cheaper, not because they will be directly able to farm it.

Would people be just as satisfied getting logs, plants, and ore from bags and from salvaging? Or would they prefer to go out and harvest trees, plants and ore nodes. I know for myself that I would much prefer to harvest directly. It allows me to target farm exactly what I want. If I need seasoned logs and only seasoned logs, I know exactly where to go and what to do. With cloth, I run around killing things at random and then I hope I get a cloth drop and then I hope it salvages to what I want.

Wanze.8410:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It might not be so much that it would effect prices as much as people would rather farm it directly off of plant nodes. They want a “sure thing” rather than a chance to get it.

I think most people just want direct nodes because they want damask to be cheaper, not because they will be directly able to farm it.

They want nodes so that IF they dont want to pay the price asked, they have another option. People are more comfortable with prices if they feel they are choosing the price, or if they can clearly measure the value.

And yes an elastic supply doesnt guarantee lower prices. It just means the supply is more flexible when adapting to changes in demand.

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It might not be so much that it would effect prices as much as people would rather farm it directly off of plant nodes. They want a “sure thing” rather than a chance to get it.

I think most people just want direct nodes because they want damask to be cheaper, not because they will be directly able to farm it.

They want nodes so that IF they dont want to pay the price asked, they have another option. People are more comfortable with prices if they feel they are choosing the price, or if they can clearly measure the value.

And yes an elastic supply doesnt guarantee lower prices. It just means the supply is more flexible when adapting to changes in demand.

But elastic supply would also mean faster and wider price swings, something that commonly isnt desired by the average player but plays into the hands of flippers and investors.

So since most cloth is from plants/animals, maybe:

Plant fibers:
Jute, Cotton, Linen

Animal fibers:
Wool(grazing animals), Silk(Wurms), Gossamer(Spiders)

But if we’re going to do this, we might as well make leather come from their animal counterparts as well in addition to armors made from them.