Guild Wars 2

Destai.9603:

I think it’s important to take a positive stance on this one. If they just take away players’ money maker without having others in place, it will upset a lot of peoples. Some players may not like the fact that CoF is ran over and over, but it helps people towards their goals. That’s what keeps players playing. Given that perspective, I don’t think they should nerf CoF at all, but make the other dungeons as profitable.

Finally someone who almost gets it.

It costs 540 G to get cultural clothes, it costs 1000 over Gs to get a legendary, it costs 1000 g+ to get infinite light, it costs 500 g+ to get volcanus (sp), it costs 100s and 100s of gold for a skin that you want.

The loot drop from mobs is dismal. You get 5 tier 6 drops from an ordinary mob. Good luck trying to transmute your t5 mats to t6 mats. The xp gain you get from hitting the mobs in the open world is laughable. Out of maybe 1/250 mobs you kill (inclusive of MF), maybe you get a lodestone from very specific mobs.

COF p1 runs are the most efficient and rewarding, both in karma, coin, and XP (if you run like 30 mins each time and take a long break, doing some other stuff). There’s nothing fun about the open world DE that GW2 currently has.

Unless loot scales, there’s not really a very big incentive to do them. Imagine if each DE gives 15s, 35000-50000 xp, 750 karma. You will see an increase in players going out in the open world to explore. I imagine that I have done 5-10% of the DE, which is a waste of content. (Unfortunately, gold is tied to gems, so Anet will never never change the loot, except maybe more xp and karma, who knows.)

Anet states they don’t want the TP to crash, but the truth is none of the players want to waste time getting scraps from the 80s map. Nerf nerf nerf, in the end, who can blame the COF runners?

Vayne.8563:

My point is, if it’s not so clear cut, people will go to do different things. One guy may make a dungeon that you can run very fast and get 12 minutes. Another guy may get 12.5 minutes on another dungeon. Are you telling me most people care that much? Most people won’t switch those out, just to have something else that’s different.

There are a few hard core farmers that will ONLY run the fastest period. I don’t refer to those people. But I know for a fact that before the AC upgrade, people were running it for money and it took quite a bit longer than CoF path 1.

Yes people will do different things, but that is only to fight dimishing return. So making dungeon fairly same length do help try push people to try to do different things. That being said, you can buy level70 rare with cof token, the lower dungeon can’t, and that play a big part on people’s choice. So you have to actually make cof take longer so people’ll do different dungeon.

And it’s not so much the time. People always gather to the same place just so “it is easier to find people”. Why would I spread out and do different dungeon if I can just do this 1 dungeon and get the same reward?

And stop telling me it is for fun. It is unfun for you because you can’t do cof only and get the same reward those cof farmer do? why do you even care other people are doing boring things so they can earn in game gold.

If you like to do every dungeon, do it. I can honestly say my friend list is make up of exclusively cof farmers and quite honestly most of them arn’t even doing cof most of the time.

Having those easy method to make gold just give people an opportunety to earn gold if they need it.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Star Ace.5207:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

If there was a way to get a precursor without RNG or having to farm up gold for that expensive precursor on the TP, people wouldn’t need to run CoF so much.

Even then, other suff costs quite a bit of gold so if you want a full t3 culture set, it will cost.

Thing is, you don’t need the precursor nor T3 armor, much less the Legendary. You just want them ASAP. Nothing wrong with that, but what you want doesn’t make the game bad (“grindy”), because the game doesn’t really requires it at all.

(I also do not like the way we are supposed to get precursors, BTW. I do not agree with the design just because the luck required is quite extreme, indeed making buying them outright the more feasible option. The prices are inflated-people are ripping each other off. HOWEVER, I don’t care enough to farm gold for its own sake, if by doing so I have to sacrifice everything else I value in the game-playing at my own pace, having fun, excluding all chore-like activities. This is why I am not worrying that much, and am just waiting for the time in which they will add to the game a fairer way to get our precursors-if that time ever comes.)

I played GW1 without ever getting “prestige” armor-I just didn’t care enough for the skins vs the required grind, and the stats were the same (plus I did like my starter armor skin on my Monk.) Eventually I did get a more affordable Norn set, which became my alternate “smiting” set (I kept my classic armor for healing/prot duties). I didn’t feel less of a player because I didn’t have the cool skins everyone else craved for. The game was fun for its own sake without them-and it is very much the same in here, to be honest with you, at least in my case-100% true story.

I wonder why people feel they are not “up to par” if they are not dual-wielding Legendaries? This restless desire for pseudo-prestige can on many occasions burn out a few players out of the game. To be honest, it’s so much fun to play without being concerned about your favorite Legendary weapon, just enjoying what the game offers vs just wanting to be like your “uber” friend/guildie with the cool Legendary-which is hardly unique at this point with all the farming on steroids going on.

In short, take it easy and enjoy GW2 for what it is, rather than for what “you are supposed to get” as an “endgame.” Legendaries can be nice, but certainly don’t make or break the game, don’t make you a superior player by wielding them (I have indeed experienced the contrary), and don’t mean anything in the long run, unless you just love them on your favorite character.

If all I cared for in GW2 was getting the Legendaries ASAP, of course the game will be grindy! But why should I needlessly punish myself in such fashion? Even playing normally I may one day get the Legendary-it just takes a whole lot longer, but what’s the rush? Once you don’t care about getting it as fast as “everybody else” seems to be getting it, the grind utterly disappears-there’s no grind required to enjoy GW2’s universe.

I do not mean to offend those who daily farm for their favorite Legendary-it’s a cool choice, but please do not accuse the game of being a grind-fest, when in reality you are making it so for yourself by wanting it ASAP!

Who cares.

Thing is, people want those items, CoF is the best gold to time spent, precursors are stupid pricey, T3 armor is also expensive.

You just confirmed what I said, whether you care or not for my opinion. “People want (not need) those items.”

Or perhaps I am not “people”, because I do not care for getting that stuff ASAP.

Play the game your way, not the way others tell you to play it. Nobody needs that stuff in a day. It’s expensive, true, but you don’t need that stuff, end of story.

Also, see the thread where a player made a thousand gold in just above 1,500 hours played without even playing CoF 1. Masses tell us we must do stuff to get gold, but we should just play whichever way we want-there are many ways to enjoy GW2 that aren’t farming or doing endless chore-like CoF 1 runs.

I understand that you may not agree with this, but all I see is that the grind is artificial (self-induced “problem”), and not real.

Take care, not worth arguing over this stuff, especially seeing as we won’t change our minds on the issue. If you think you need them, all the power to you, I just don’t see why people really “need” this stuff done in a day.

Star Ace.5207:

lay the game your way, not the way others tell you to play it. Nobody needs that stuff in a day. It’s expensive, true, but you don’t need that stuff, end of story.

I never get this argument. So I can’t play my way which is to get a legendary asap, I have to play your way?

But you tell me to play which ever way I want to play. I guess that is very contradictory.

That is kind of the elitism argument. People claim that elitist want other people to play their way. Actually they dont’. They want others to play their way. They just dont’ want to “group with them” unless they play their way.

Based on my experiences with other games, when a major, infamous money maker gets the nerf bat, its not the people who figure out these routes who gets hurt. They just do something else that’s profitable. They might even have figured it out before the nerf hit, because they knew which way the wind was going to blow.

It’s the more casual player, who reads guides on how to make money that are easy to find/google, who are left in the cold. Prices don’t deflate, because the clever farmers develop a new method.

The best method, IMHO, is to make casual play more profitable. IE easier dungeons in general, more money for dailies, etc. If this causes inflation, oh well, waypoints and repairs are relatively cheaper, and the price of ectos goes up.

RebelYell.7132:

The best method, IMHO, is to make casual play more profitable. IE easier dungeons in general, more money for dailies, etc. If this causes inflation, oh well, waypoints and repairs are relatively cheaper, and the price of ectos goes up.

if you cause inflation, everything, including the gear you wanted to get will get more expensive, meaning giving a player more money would just make money mean less and it will force a higher currency than gold to be invented. And then we have the same story all over again – nobody can make enough money, because everything is expensive and they’re not getting enough.
Dungeons are easy as they are. By making them easier Anet would disappoint a great portion of their player base. If they made different modes (easy mode, hard mode) that give different amount of tokens and different amount of loot, then I suppose it would be alright.

laokoko.7403:

Star Ace.5207:

lay the game your way, not the way others tell you to play it. Nobody needs that stuff in a day. It’s expensive, true, but you don’t need that stuff, end of story.

I never get this argument. So I can’t play my way which is to get a legendary asap, I have to play your way?

But you tell me to play which ever way I want to play. I guess that is very contradictory.

That is kind of the elitism argument. People claim that elitist want other people to play their way. Actually they dont’. They want others to play their way. They just dont’ want to “group with them” unless they play their way.

I have never told ANYONE that using Berserker’s gear is bad for them, nor that they shouldn’t farm CoF 1 as fast as possible (if so, please quote when I did.) Further, I’ll quote myself once more:

“I do not mean to offend those who daily farm for their favorite Legendary-it’s a cool choice, but please do not accuse the game of being a grind-fest, when in reality you are making it so for yourself by wanting it ASAP!”

I have, however, met many, many players in-game and on this forum that claim that the way to play GW2 IS “Berserker’s way, or the highway”, on this and many other threads. They (not necessarily you, mind you) tell others that they are wasting party slots if they go “support”. That’s what I oppose: the unwelcoming, elitist attitude that it all brings to the fore (if I don’t tell you not to play Berserker’s, you should also not tell me not to use anything else not Berserker’s-this is something not ALL “zerk” farmers do, just some, but it’s very annoying and a bad, exclusivist “I am better than you” attitude that easily spreads over the community.)

I always said that elitists and non-elitists should not party together-it’s all over my posts, so I don’t think we really disagree. I would never party with someone that kicks people over ten seconds lost due to a so-called “baddie” mistake. We are just not a good match, and that’s fine.

I do have a problem with saying “GW2 is so grindy, of course I must farm CoF 1 with zerk war for ten hours!” when it’s a self-induced problem, as aforementioned. You don’t need that Legendary stuff and other rare weapon skins in a week (not even a year, or ever, really). So yes, feel totally free to farm it to death, but don’t blame the game, blame the player, is all I am saying (I.E. you don’t need to excuse your CoF 1 “zerk” farming by saying GW2 is grindy-it’s totally fine to want your Legendary ASAP, but just know that it’s your problem for wanting it that fast, so it’s not a game design issue.)

I hope I made myself clearer, and I certainly don’t mind if you make 150 gold per day on your multiple CoF 1 daily runs-it is none of my concern, even if I wouldn’t do it myself. Of course, if you think you are superior JUST because of it, and bash others for not playing the way you do, I have a problem with that. But in the end, players need not like or prefer the same things, and that’s fine-that’s all I am about.

Star Ace.5207:

I do have a problem with saying “GW2 is so grindy, of course I must farm CoF 1 with zerk war for ten hours!” when it’s a self-induced problem, as aforementioned. You don’t need that Legendary stuff and other rare weapon skins in a week (not even a year, or ever, really).

Ya but in that essence no mmorpg on the market is grindy. You don’t “need” to do anything. You dont’ even need to play the game.

And the game is designed “by the developer” to make those skin to be grindy. It is by design. It is a way to keep the hardcore player and maintain the economy.

And you know what’s so wrong about not getting things asap argument? inflation.

laokoko.7403:

Star Ace.5207:

I do have a problem with saying “GW2 is so grindy, of course I must farm CoF 1 with zerk war for ten hours!” when it’s a self-induced problem, as aforementioned. You don’t need that Legendary stuff and other rare weapon skins in a week (not even a year, or ever, really).

Ya but in that essence no mmorpg on the market is grindy. You don’t “need” to do anything. You dont’ even need to play the game.

And the game is designed “by the developer” to make those skin to be grindy. It is by design. It is a way to keep the hardcore player and maintain the economy.

And you know what’s so wrong about not getting things asap argument? inflation.

We don’t really need to get things ASAP to avoid inflation. To be honest, that doesn’t make sense to me. I don’t play the game to “balance the economy”, but to have fun. Plus, there will ALWAYS be players that want everything ASAP-it just doesn’t needto be for everybody else, and it’s their burden to carry (again, not the game’s fault, but their choice.)

The “grind” is mostly a “problem” for so-called hardcore players, but if you don’t care, then there’s no problem-grind-at all. And I do not mean to offend, but the “playing the game is also optional” makes no sense either, because what I am saying is that it’s the grind that’s optional-there’s nothing that you need to grind for that impedes you from enjoying most of the game minus super high level Fractals, which were made for grinders to begin with.

(Not to mention, you may be “hardcore”, and not like any of the current Legendaries… what is there for you to do in this game then if that’s all you play for? (BTW, not referring to YOU personally). Possibly a minority, but there’s bound to be “hardcore” players who don’t like any Legendary at all, so hopefully they find other stuff fun to do.)

In short:

-Grind all you want, but it’s your problem that you should willingly and happily embrace for wanting the rare skins as soon as possible-Legendaries were not meant to be acquired easily, but as you said, require a special commitment if you want them by tomorrow.

-GW2 is not “grindy”, because no matter how cool or desirable the rare skins may be, players don’t really need that stuff to do well and access most content in the game. It’s possible to have a great looking character that doesn’t have T3 armor, Legendaries, or any named difficult to get Exotic weapon.

It’s OK to want “Prestige” items, but you have to pay the price for them, especially if you want them ASAP. Not the game’s fault. Also, if you really want that stuff, you should really “embrace the grind” with open arms, especially since it’s much less than many other games require for stuff that’s actually needed to enjoy other content.

Look, I find many lodestones drop rates uber rare, and I don’t agree with that, because it makes it especially difficult for the casual player. I also do not agree with the way precursors are currently acquired (really, purchase is the only current best way, in my humble opinion.) Yet I still believe there’s no true grind, save the one we inflict on ourselves for caring that much for cool stuff which, although very nice to have, not really needed to enjoy GW2.

I know I will get The Juggernaut for Ms. Willa one day-I just know that it won’t be in the next few months, and I am OK with it (it’s ALSO OK to NOT be fine with it, but you’ll probably have to pay the “grinder’s” fee.)

(On GW1, many players didn’t get their Prestige armor until after years, so all things considered, people are actually getting their Legendaries quite rapidly in this game; the grind seems minimal to me, even for those who farm for it daily.)

I don’t think this is about Elitism, the Zerk Warrior farm only works because you take down the mobs so fast. If you have anyone in your group that isn’t full damage spec you quite often end up with the team wiping as they can’t deal with the damage coming their way in a longer fight.

I felt the same way when I first saw the Zerk Warrior farm appear. But having now played both sides of the fence (I had a Warrior that was doing nothing so I though what they hey), I totally understand the Gear checks. Most teams I’ve been with have been nice people, not elitist, I’ve never seen anyone kicked because it was their first time or they made a mistake. I really thought it would be unpleasant experience but it really isn’t. And it doesn’t really feel like they are being exclusive, just realise that the setu kitten itting on a bit of a knife edge and that if people aren’t properly set up it just doesn’t work nearly as well.

laokoko.7403:

Star Ace.5207:

I do have a problem with saying “GW2 is so grindy, of course I must farm CoF 1 with zerk war for ten hours!” when it’s a self-induced problem, as aforementioned. You don’t need that Legendary stuff and other rare weapon skins in a week (not even a year, or ever, really).

Ya but in that essence no mmorpg on the market is grindy. You don’t “need” to do anything. You dont’ even need to play the game.

And the game is designed “by the developer” to make those skin to be grindy. It is by design. It is a way to keep the hardcore player and maintain the economy.

And you know what’s so wrong about not getting things asap argument? inflation.

You say that, but their are games which heavily gate content. Aion was a bit like that. To play with my mates I had to keep up with their level and equipment otherwise I just couldn’t do any content with them, zones would be trivial for them, there were no instances we could do unless they were similar level. I felt I had to grind.

I don’t feel GW2 is like this. If I’m level 60 in green gear I can do 13 different instances with my mates (12 individual paths), I can do world bosses, I can do world completion, I can do sPVP, I can do WvWvW. I don’t feel I need to grind to spend time with the people I want to spend time with.

Star Ace.5207:

We don’t really need to get things ASAP to avoid inflation. To be honest, that doesn’t make sense to me. I don’t play the game to “balance the economy”, but to have fun.

I don’t even know what you talking about. I’ll make it easy to understand. If you farm a 100 hours a few month ago you’ll have your legendary. You need to farm 300 hours now. I dont’ know the exact number but something like that. And I’m really glad I farm my gem a very long time ago. Because if I didn’t I’ll need to spend 5 times longer to farm the same amount of gems.

And you dont’ play to balance the economy. But it is the developer’s job to creat a game with an economy that make sense. Without legendary material sink, tier6 material will be worth nothing.

Hey and I didn’t say GW2 is grindy. I’m just saying if I want legendary it is grindy. And by your standard no mmorpg is grindy.

And remember you are the one telling people to play whatever way they want. And if that is to grind legendary “which is what they want asap” it is grindy.

Ratty.5176:

I don’t think this is about Elitism, the Zerk Warrior farm only works because you take down the mobs so fast. If you have anyone in your group that isn’t full damage spec you quite often end up with the team wiping as they can’t deal with the damage coming their way in a longer fight.

I felt the same way when I first saw the Zerk Warrior farm appear. But having now played both sides of the fence (I had a Warrior that was doing nothing so I though what they hey), I totally understand the Gear checks. Most teams I’ve been with have been nice people, not elitist, I’ve never seen anyone kicked because it was their first time or they made a mistake. I really thought it would be unpleasant experience but it really isn’t. And it doesn’t really feel like they are being exclusive, just realise that the setu kitten itting on a bit of a knife edge and that if people aren’t properly set up it just doesn’t work nearly as well.

You see, you are one of the nice, open-minded players, and that’s fine. I don’t care if you farm CoF 1, because you don’t feel entitled-it’s something you just do to get your gold. Some other players do have stinky attitudes, though, which very much spread like a plague in the community. That’s the danger that comes with exclusivism: some people confuse “speed” with “skill”, and bash those who aren’t as fast as they can be (I doubt you are the type). And I do understand your point, Berserker’s is too fragile that not enough “zerk damage” may make things go quite slower due to more frequent downed states. I have no problem with you, though, because you don’t feel superior or treat others like “baddies” because they may not prefer to do what you do.

I wouldn’t party with you, because my gear has too many non-full Berserker’s pieces, and that’s frowned upon (all jewels are rubies, but I don’t have the “required” max precision.) I would probably make things slower for you, but NOT due to “lacking skill”, but because I have chosen to play another way. To be honest, though, I don’t care, because I just don’t enjoy that type of frenetic paced-gaming, and prefer to group up with random Professions with different “non-optimal” builds. We are both fine in being different, and I am not better than you, nor are you better than me for choosing to play CoF 1 (or anything else for that matter) differently.

Star Ace.5207:

You see, you are one of the nice, open-minded players, and that’s fine. I don’t care if you farm CoF 1, because you don’t feel entitled-it’s something you just do to get your gold. Some other players do have stinky attitudes, though, which very much spread like a plague in the community. That’s the danger that comes with exclusivism: some people confuse “speed” with “skill”, and bash those who aren’t as fast as they can be (I doubt you are the type). And I do understand your point, Berserker’s is too fragile that not enough “zerk damage” may make things go quite slower due to more frequent downed states. I have no problem with you, though, because you don’t feel superior or treat others like “baddies” because they may not prefer to do what you do.

I wouldn’t party with you, because my gear has too many non-full Berserker’s pieces, and that’s frowned upon (all jewels are rubies, but I don’t have the “required” max precision.) I would probably make things slower for you, but NOT due to “lacking skill”, but because I have chosen to play another way. To be honest, though, I don’t care, because I just don’t enjoy that type of frenetic paced-gaming, and prefer to group up with random Professions with different “non-optimal” builds. We are both fine in being different, and I am not better than you, nor are you better than me for choosing to play CoF 1 (or anything else for that matter) differently.

TBH I still play CoF with mixed parties as well. I really enjoy it especially Path 2. But I would never take my Zerk Warrior in one of those teams, it just would not survive for a second.

The Zerk farming is a social contract really between players in the group. It’s saying I will take full Zerk because I know that if I don’t you will die, and in return I expect you to do the same for me. It’s covering each others backs. In some ways it’s similar to running with any other party (though in this case it’s 4 Warriors). If I’m running a Thief, I’m entering a contract with the party to pick up the dead people with Shadow Refuge and put out a decent amount of damage, and in return I expect people to realise I’m a bit squishy and try to heal me and rescue me when I make a mistake. You don’t get this as much in GW2 as a lot of MMOs where the tank has to hold agro or the team will die, the Healer has to keep the tank up or the team will die and the DPS needs to take down the boss fast enough so the tank doesn’t get wittled down. In the Zerk farm in some ways it’s come back in a way except everyone has to have enough DPS to take down the boss fast enough that the team doesn’t wipe.

laokoko.7403:

Star Ace.5207:

We don’t really need to get things ASAP to avoid inflation. To be honest, that doesn’t make sense to me. I don’t play the game to “balance the economy”, but to have fun.

I don’t even know what you talking about. I’ll make it easy to understand. If you farm a 100 hours a few month ago you’ll have your legendary. You need to farm 300 hours now. I dont’ know the exact number but something like that.

And you dont’ play to balance the economy. But it is the developer’s job to creat a game with an economy that make sense. Without legendary material sink, tier6 material will be worth nothing.

Hey and I didn’t say GW2 is grindy. I’m just saying if I want legendary it is grindy. And by your standard no mmorpg is grindy.

And remember you are the one telling people to play whatever way they want. And if that is to grind legendary “which is what they want asap” it is grindy.

I do not understand why are you so angry, since I don’t care about the way you play, nor am I belittling you. What’s the problem?

The economy thing that didn’t make sense to me is that you seem to imply that we need to grind for stuff to balance the economy. I said that there will always be players like you, so the economy is safe-I do not need to do it as fast as possible just because you do?

It is not grindy-you chose to make it for yourself, so yes, it is grindy for you, but it’s not the game’s problem, because it isn’t grindy for me and many others. See? It’s only a grind because you want it ASAP. I am not accusing you for wanting it ASAP (that doesn’t offend me in the least, it’s your choice), just that you should not find fault with the game, since it’s the grind you were looking for, and you’ve found it (if it would be super easy to get, what would it be worth for the type of player that you seem to be?)

GW2 isn’t grindy at all, but has a few optional grinds for those who want to embrace them, much like GW1 one had many optional grinds as well.

By my standards, many other games are grindy because they require for you to grind stuff to access gated content, which doesn’t happen in this game save for high level fractals. That’s why GW2 isn’t grindy vs many other MMOs. Or are you telling me we need a Legendary weapon to access any content in this game and/or to “progress”? They are cool to have, but not required for content, unlike in many other games.

Ratty.5176:

You say that, but their are games which heavily gate content. Aion was a bit like that. To play with my mates I had to keep up with their level and equipment otherwise I just couldn’t do any content with them, zones would be trivial for them, there were no instances we could do unless they were similar level. I felt I had to grind.

Yes I get it, “less people are temped” to grind because it is just cosmetic and there is no content lock. Which is what you guys are trying to convey.

But there exist those that would grind for purely cosmetic. It is the way they want to play. And those that want to play that way questioned why is a skin so grindy.

You flet you had to grind in Aion, in the same sense those people that care about cosmetic felt they have to grind for it.

Star Ace.5207:

The economy thing that didn’t make sense to me is that you seem to imply that we need to grind for stuff to balance the economy. I said that there will always be players like you, so the economy is safe-I do not need to do it as fast as possible just because you do?

I didn’t say that. I didn’t say you need to grind to balance the economy. I’m saying legendary is “designed” to be a material sink to clean up the material. It is designed to be grindy. Else the economy won’t make sense. You’ll see tier6 material sell for a few copper without it. That is probably going off topic but that is what I’m trying to say.

Oh ya and I never said GW2 is grindy. I actually says it is the most casual game on the market. All I said is getting a legendary is grindy.

laokoko.7403:

All I said is getting a legendary is grindy.

I do agree, that’s why I farm very slowly for it myself, lest I burn out. Plus I usually get distracted with the other fun stuff to do, so I forget to farm in the first place. :P

I want the Berserker’s Quiver for Ms. Willa, and I am a few hundred plus Vials of Powerful Blood short. I farm the Southsun Cove Skelks for them slowly, when I remember, and only half an hour at a time, and actually find it fun. :P I could of course buy them outright by farming money, but that wouldn’t be as fun to me (plus I just think they are overpriced.) I just don’t embrace the grind as easily as many other players, as I pace myself quite a bit. So I WILL get the Quiver, but it will take some time (more for a cosmetic/stats purpose, since I don’t plan to use my Warrior for Fractals-she just uses a Longbow a lot, so I thought it would feel her character concept.)

The Juggernaut will take even longer, especially since the Gift of Magic isn’t very easily obtained through casual play (yes, it’s possible over many, many months of normal play, which will probably be the way I will finally get it). That’s fine, though-I know it will take me longer because I don’t care that much to farm for it for hours on end.

Ironically, I have lots of CoF to do since I also need 150 Molten Lodestones, and need about 120 more. :P Maybe in a year or two. Or just joining one or two non-exclusive speedruns per day.

Current Silver Doubloons prices are ridiculous… we are better off gambling low level jewels at the forge for them (stupid that one of them is pricier than one ecto/vial of powerful blood.) I need about 210 more of those, I just haven’t put the time at the Forge as of late.

So I am far from the Legendary goal, but I do not fret too much about it. :P Gift of Exploration and Metal, as well as 30 Clovers is as “close” as I am at the moment. I am just too casual and busy with life concerns to be able to do it as fast as many other players do-which is fine by me. Note that I am not saying that other players are not busy too, but I just really pace myself with GW2, and am never in a hurry for anything.

The game’s real grind is the precursor-simply too hard to get through casual play due to the ridiculous luck required to get it as a drop or through the Forge. My plan is just to make gold over time to get it many months ahead.

So yes, the grind can be real, just not strictly “required.” I am sorry if I was too harsh or hurt your feelings in some way.

Star Ace.5207:

You just confirmed what I said, whether you care or not for my opinion. “People want (not need) those items.”

Or perhaps I am not “people”, because I do not care for getting that stuff ASAP.

Play the game your way, not the way others tell you to play it. Nobody needs that stuff in a day. It’s expensive, true, but you don’t need that stuff, end of story.

Also, see the thread where a player made a thousand gold in just above 1,500 hours played without even playing CoF 1. Masses tell us we must do stuff to get gold, but we should just play whichever way we want-there are many ways to enjoy GW2 that aren’t farming or doing endless chore-like CoF 1 runs.

I understand that you may not agree with this, but all I see is that the grind is artificial (self-induced “problem”), and not real.

Take care, not worth arguing over this stuff, especially seeing as we won’t change our minds on the issue. If you think you need them, all the power to you, I just don’t see why people really “need” this stuff done in a day.

I’m pretty sure I haven’t said I needed anything except maybe siege. Siege is kind of important to take down a gate so that is about the only thing in this game that is kind of a need. Several people can possible have some but I would like to be prepared myself. I can get that with badges but it does take time to accumulate some, especially if one needs a few cats and arrow carts to defend against a counter attack.

It is also nice to have that gold to upgrade stuff right when you take a camp, tower, or keep instead of waiting until you’ve gotten enough gold in WvW which can take a bit. I’d rather have the gold going in.

Everything else is a want.

People will still grind out gold for what they want. If CoF gets nerfed, people will grind another dungeon.

Changing CoF isn’t going to solve anything except fullfill those that WANT it changed.

It doesn’t need to be changed.

When will ppl understand that nerfs ruin games? Why would anyone ASK for a nerf?

“Oh this dungeon makes ppl rich, make it suck so they have to be poor like me!”

If anyone is lazy here, it is the lazy, selfish, idiot who wants to ruin things for everyone else because they don’t like it. Get over yourself! Nerfing CoF means everyone would find a new dungeon, which would get nerfed, and so on until there’s nothing left.

MrChandMan.8253:

When will ppl understand that nerfs ruin games? Why would anyone ASK for a nerf?

“Oh this dungeon makes ppl rich, make it suck so they have to be poor like me!”

If anyone is lazy here, it is the lazy, selfish, idiot who wants to ruin things for everyone else because they don’t like it. Get over yourself! Nerfing CoF means everyone would find a new dungeon, which would get nerfed, and so on until there’s nothing left.

nerfing a dungeon is essentially making it harder. At some point nerfing a lot of the dungeons would raise their difficulty to be equal, meaning that people would finally have to learn all boss mechanics and maybe, just maybe, add a bit of vitality or toughness on themselves. It would also raise your prestige to be wearing an armor set from a said dungeon. A lot of people like looking at people with full Arah set. Because Arah set is hard to get. Nobody will praise you for full CoF set though. Now imagine if CoF was actually on par with other dungeons. The set will start to mean something.

So why should I spend 4 hours running Arah when I can run CoF for the same rewards x4?

The big thing this game is lacking is rewards for time spent doing an activity. Even WvW fails at this. You spend x amount of hours controlling a map only to log out and loose everything.

I could spend 6 hours farming for lodestones and get 1-2 if I’m lucky, or I could just farm gold and buy them instead.

Gold is king in GW2, there is nothing ells to do once you’ve been 80 for 2-3 months.

It all comes down to Risk vs Reward. Keep CoF1 as it is – adjust rewards accordingly.

MrChandMan.8253:

When will ppl understand that nerfs ruin games? Why would anyone ASK for a nerf?

“Oh this dungeon makes ppl rich, make it suck so they have to be poor like me!”

If anyone is lazy here, it is the lazy, selfish, idiot who wants to ruin things for everyone else because they don’t like it. Get over yourself! Nerfing CoF means everyone would find a new dungeon, which would get nerfed, and so on until there’s nothing left.

I agree with this compeltely

grifflyman.8102:

So why should I spend 4 hours running Arah when I can run CoF for the same rewards x4?

This game is lacking proper rewards for the amount of time you spend doing things. There are no unique rewards, the only thing player have to farm is gold and that’s kitten.

I’m still baffled by the fact you can run Arah and get the same exact rewards you get in CoF… it’s so obvious which one people are going to farm when loot doesn’t even scale with length or difficulty of a dungeon.

Mathias.9657:

grifflyman.8102:

So why should I spend 4 hours running Arah when I can run CoF for the same rewards x4?

This game is lacking proper rewards for the amount of time you spend doing things. There are no unique rewards, the only thing player have to farm is gold and that’s kitten.

I’m still baffled by the fact you can run Arah and get the same exact rewards you get in CoF… it’s so obvious which one people are going to farm when loot doesn’t even scale with length or difficulty of a dungeon.

you get more money running Arah, plus you can buy yellows with Arah tokens and salvage them for ectos, because yellows from arah would be level 80. Yellows from CoF are level 70 I believe.

Up the gold reward for higher lvl DEs. Thats right GOLD reward, 1 silver is not enough.

Mirta.5029:

Mathias.9657:

grifflyman.8102:

So why should I spend 4 hours running Arah when I can run CoF for the same rewards x4?

This game is lacking proper rewards for the amount of time you spend doing things. There are no unique rewards, the only thing player have to farm is gold and that’s kitten.

I’m still baffled by the fact you can run Arah and get the same exact rewards you get in CoF… it’s so obvious which one people are going to farm when loot doesn’t even scale with length or difficulty of a dungeon.

you get more money running Arah, plus you can buy yellows with Arah tokens and salvage them for ectos, because yellows from arah would be level 80. Yellows from CoF are level 70 I believe.

I don’t get more money from Arah not even close, most people skip 90% of that dungeon and just kill the bosses because it’s not worth killing the millions of mobs there. CoF token armor can be salvage for ectos as well.

PearlGore.7419:

Up the gold reward for higher lvl DEs. Thats right GOLD reward, 1 silver is not enough.

higher level dungeons give you more silver. 10-15 silver every boss fight in CoE. I believe Arah is the same.

Mathias.9657:

I don’t get more money from Arah not even close, most people skip 90% of that dungeon and just kill the bosses because it’s not worth killing the millions of mobs there. CoF token armor can be salvage for ectos as well.

and bosses are the ones that give you 15 silver every go. CoF yellow token armor has a lower chance to get you ectos, so there it’s better to invest in exotics and salvage those.

Mirta.5029:

PearlGore.7419:

Up the gold reward for higher lvl DEs. Thats right GOLD reward, 1 silver is not enough.

higher level dungeons give you more silver. 10-15 silver every boss fight in CoE. I believe Arah is the same.

OFC, but Dynamic Events “DE” should be more rewarding if people want to nerf things like COF.

PearlGore.7419:

Mirta.5029:

PearlGore.7419:

Up the gold reward for higher lvl DEs. Thats right GOLD reward, 1 silver is not enough.

higher level dungeons give you more silver. 10-15 silver every boss fight in CoE. I believe Arah is the same.

OFC, but Dynamic Events “DE” should be more rewarding if people want to nerf things like COF.

you mean dynamic events in PVE? Like world bosses that now guarantee you yellows?
Or do you mean dynamic events in dungeons, the ones you can skip?

Mirta.5029:

PearlGore.7419:

Up the gold reward for higher lvl DEs. Thats right GOLD reward, 1 silver is not enough.

higher level dungeons give you more silver. 10-15 silver every boss fight in CoE. I believe Arah is the same.

Mathias.9657:

I don’t get more money from Arah not even close, most people skip 90% of that dungeon and just kill the bosses because it’s not worth killing the millions of mobs there. CoF token armor can be salvage for ectos as well.

and bosses are the ones that give you 15 silver every go. CoF yellow token armor has a lower chance to get you ectos, so there it’s better to invest in exotics and salvage those.

I’m telling you I don’t make more money in Arah lol, you can farm CoF 10x faster and get way more gold. I know how loot works, but time investments >

I mean regular open world events, not in dungeons or mega bosses.

COF p[ath 1 should be nerfed, its ridiculous that they did it to AC but not COF1

I am curious if anyone knows if CoF was always this easy, or if something was changed (a while ago) to make it the way it is.

I know when I started playing Gw2 in January AC was the place to be, it was also my first armor set. But after they made the changes I couldn’t participate anymore because it no longer was a ‘level 35’ dungeon… I tried running AC the other day with a full party of 80 and they ended up quitting.

grifflyman.8102:

Gold is king in GW2, there is nothing ells to do once you’ve been 80 for 2-3 months.

I’ve been 80 for considerably longer, and I haven’t run out of things to do, nor do I care about hoarding gold.

If you think gold is the only thing to do in GW2, then you probably shouldn’t be hoarding it in the first place, and instead go play something that’s more fun for you, unless of course, it’s fun to hoard it in your case, which is valid.

In short, not everyone likes to play GW2 at a frenetic pace, and indeed, nothing is forcing us to do so.

MuffinPieFace.9513:

I am curious if anyone knows if CoF was always this easy, or if something was changed (a while ago) to make it the way it is.

I know when I started playing GW2 in January AC was the place to be, it was also my first armor set. But after they made the changes I couldn’t participate anymore because it no longer was a ‘level 35’ dungeon… I tried running AC the other day with a full party of 80 and they ended up quitting.

AC is still easy, though, and I do not mean to offend you at all. It was revised, but not made substantially harder. Once players get used to the new mechanics put in place, it becomes “easy” once more. The only “hard” part of AC (the part with possible many re-dos) is destroying the gravelings mounds to defend Hodgins, and even that is very easy with an experienced group.

Oh, and I am sorry that you were not permitted to play as a lower than level 80-it was mostly as a result of people being scared of non-level 80s making the paths “too difficult”, but AC isn’t really that hard. I would never reject anyone under level 80 on an AC explorable group, it’s not that difficult at all.

morrolan.9608:

COF p[ath 1 should be nerfed, its ridiculous that they did it to AC but not COF1

How is it much harder? It certainly isn’t “ridiculous” at all. Even Kholer with his ad-summoning isn’t that hard. And I am not the elitist “put you down” type, just being honest.

-Gravelings knockdown-use stability.

That’s about the biggest gameplay change on that Dungeon path. The Troll is harder, but it’s an optional fight unless somehow he triggers on your party, in which case just run or make Kholer fight him with his ads if you want.

Some sort of challenge is better than CoF 1, IMHO. That AC is harder than CoF 1 (though everything is probably harder in comparision :P) doesn’t mean that it’s stupidly hard at all.

Star Ace.5207:

grifflyman.8102:

Gold is king in GW2, there is nothing ells to do once you’ve been 80 for 2-3 months.

I’ve been 80 for considerably longer, and I haven’t run out of things to do, nor do I care about hoarding gold.

If you think gold is the only thing to do in GW2, then you probably shouldn’t be hoarding it in the first place, and instead go play something that’s more fun for you, unless of course, it’s fun to hoard it in your case, which is valid.

In short, not everyone likes to play GW2 at a frenetic pace, and indeed, nothing is forcing us to do so.

Most people quit because they got nothing else to do. I stopped since last October because it became increasingly harder to find people to play with who still know how to stop and smell the roses, who would do dungeons without skipping or exploiting.

I started playing again just a week ago to see what’s new, and been guesting to different servers to get a feel of the overall community, and everyone’s still farming the same things, and all you see in area chat is “Timer?” I only did the Living story thing, and tried the daily stuff a couple times. Now, I just WvW because it’s really the only place left where I can find majority of the people still playing to ‘play’ than to ‘win prizes’

Star Ace.5207:

morrolan.9608:

COF p[ath 1 should be nerfed, its ridiculous that they did it to AC but not COF1

How is it much harder? It certainly isn’t “ridiculous” at all. Even Kholer with his ad-summoning isn’t that hard. And I am not the elitist “put you down” type, just being honest.

-Gravelings knockdown-use stability.

That’s about the biggest gameplay change on that Dungeon path. The Troll is harder, but it’s an optional fight unless somehow he triggers on your party, in which case just run or make Kholer fight him with his ads if you want.

Some sort of challenge is better than CoF 1, IMHO. That AC is harder than CoF 1 (though everything is probably harder in comparision :P) doesn’t mean that it’s stupidly hard at all.

well AC P2 with the cannon setting and never ending ghost spawns… That was made a bit too difficult. I remember my party having a buggy NPC that would only chase the ghosts instead of setting the cannons and I also remember us not being able to kill ghosts soon enough. For a level 35 dungeon, going in as a level 35, it’s far too hard.

I’d say at this point, anything that people want to do repeatedly is good content. They nerfed plinx, people got upset and started running AC. They nerfed AC, people got upset and started running CoF.

When you look at it from a pragmatic perspective, what changed in those scenarios as time passed? People didn’t stop farming things. They simply changed what they were farming. The most significant change that Anet should care about at this point is that people got kitten off repeatedly and lost love for the game. With this broke kitten economy and the rediculous prices of precursors, they’re going to have to introduce more and more forms of currency to fix the way people get rewarded in this game, so gold is going to become more and more obsolete. No use fixing the gold rush this late and kitten people off in the process… just add a couple of purchasable items each patch to keep gold “relevant” so you can still get your gem purchases, and add new forms of currency (i.e., dungeon tokens, laurels, guild merits, etc) for the items you know people will strive for. The precursor scavenger hunt could fix the gold inflation issue, but nerfing stuff never will because the people who are rich and are controlling the economy are already rich. Hopefully they’re smart enough to realize this stuff… in addition to that, adding guild and player housing could add another set of in game goals, perhaps with additional currency forms and/or crafts, and we could have ourselves a nice little MMO on our hands here.

You know. If they’re smart. Or we could just add more dragons, because dur hur dragons is good dur hur

Tagus Eleuthera.7305:

I’d say at this point, anything that people want to do repeatedly is good content. They nerfed plinx, people got upset and started running AC. They nerfed AC, people got upset and started running CoF.

When you look at it from a pragmatic perspective, what changed in those scenarios as time passed? People didn’t stop farming things. They simply changed what they were farming. The most significant change that Anet should care about at this point is that people got kitten off repeatedly and lost love for the game. With this broke kitten economy and the rediculous prices of precursors, they’re going to have to introduce more and more forms of currency to fix the way people get rewarded in this game, so gold is going to become more and more obsolete. No use fixing the gold rush this late and kitten people off in the process… just add a couple of purchasable items each patch to keep gold “relevant” so you can still get your gem purchases, and add new forms of currency (i.e., dungeon tokens, laurels, guild merits, etc) for the items you know people will strive for. The precursor scavenger hunt could fix the gold inflation issue, but nerfing stuff never will. Hopefully they’re smart enough to realize this stuff… in addition to that, adding guild and player housing could add another set of in game goals, perhaps with additional currency forms and/or crafts, and we could have ourselves a nice little MMO on our hands here.

You know. If they’re smart. Or we could just add more dragons, because dur hur dragons is good dur hur

Hello, Tagus, the problem is that unlike with Plinx and early AC, CoF 1 has a specific efficient “system” in place by the community. Though many will disagree with me, and I respect that, I feel that CoF 1 is being “exploited” as it is constituted right now. There’s nothing wrong with players wanting gold ASAP (even if I am not that type of player), but I would certainly prefer if there were many “easy ways” such as CoF 1, or that the difference between risk/rewards between the few options out there were more significant (meaning if CoF 1 is that easy, then the harder paths should be all the more rewarding in comparison, which I don’t think will going to happen, however.) I would like CoF 1 to be nerfed (I.E. rebalanced, made more worthy of the Dungeon moniker) not because I am an lazy idiot like a close-minded poster accused many of us to be (and as if doing CoF 1 for ten hours on “zerk” gear made you a “hard worker”… :P it’s actually the opposite, it’s easier and “lazier”, just probably more boring than anything else in the game) but to maintain the “integrity” of the game by keeping the relative difficulty of all Dungeons on a similar level. The current situation makes a great amount of the population follow the CoF 1 farming system (some people level Warriors to 80 JUST to exploit this path), which greatly reduces the population for all other Dungeon paths and other places in the game.

In short, CoF 1 farming is not right or wrong, but shouldn’t be deemed the only “worth your time” money making solution for all players that want gold ASAP. It’s not well balanced, to say the least-just compare the CoF 1 player population vs any other Dungeon path on LFG. It’s certainly not “wrong” to want to make gold fast, but there shouldn’t be just one imbalanced way to doing so (or at least, it’s currently perceived that way-I know you can make money in others ways too right now.)

Feel free to disagree, I just don’t believe CoF 1 “EZ mode” is “nice” for the game, because it’s being used as its theoretically “only” goldmine, whether that’s true or not. It imbalances the population, but I understand how many players will complain once it finally gets rebalanced, if that ever happens.

MrChandMan.8253:

When will ppl understand that nerfs ruin games? Why would anyone ASK for a nerf?

“Oh this dungeon makes ppl rich, make it suck so they have to be poor like me!”

If anyone is lazy here, it is the lazy, selfish, idiot who wants to ruin things for everyone else because they don’t like it. Get over yourself! Nerfing CoF means everyone would find a new dungeon, which would get nerfed, and so on until there’s nothing left.

Actually, the problem isn’t that Cof is so fast. It’s that it’s so much faster than the next feasible alternative. If you had several dungeons in a 1 minute radius of each other people would switch off more.

And you shouldn’t call people names, just because they don’t agree with you. If you don’t want to run CoF over and over again, clearly the way the game was intended to be played, you won’t make money as fast as those who do. But that just makes inflation for EVERYONE. The more money people make the more you can get away with selling expensive things for.

Unless you LOVE running CoF 1 over over again because it’s fun, nerfing it will make the game better, not for the small percentage of CoF farmers, but for everyone else in the game.

What’s wrong with cof being fast. If you don’t like cof do the other dungeon.

Nothing wrong with you don’t want to do cof. What’s wrong is “you dont’ want other people to run cof”.

laokoko.7403:

What’s wrong with cof being fast. If you don’t like cof do the other dungeon.

Nothing wrong with you don’t want to do cof. What’s wrong is “you dont’ want other people to run cof”.

if a dungeon gives you the same amount of tickets as other dungeons, but can be completed 24 minutes faster and you can speed run it near infinity, there’s obviously something wrong with that dungeon. Especially when a dungeon lower level than it is harder.

laokoko.7403:

What’s wrong with cof being fast. If you don’t like cof do the other dungeon.

Nothing wrong with you don’t want to do cof. What’s wrong is “you dont’ want other people to run cof”.

Nah, I don’t care if they run it, but there should be more options, not just that one. Either all are similarly difficult, or all are similarly easy, your choice, or the more difficult Dungeons should reward players way much more. Though no path will always be as easy as the other, you gotta admit that CoF 1 is way much easier than any other option, effort and time-wise, which is the theoretical problem in my view, taking away too many players from the alternative options.

See it as me wanting what’s better for everybody. I mean no harm to farmers themselves.

Star Ace.5207:

laokoko.7403:

What’s wrong with cof being fast. If you don’t like cof do the other dungeon.

Nothing wrong with you don’t want to do cof. What’s wrong is “you dont’ want other people to run cof”.

Nah, I don’t care if they run it, but there should be more options, not just that one. Either all are similarly difficult, or all are similarly easy, your choice, or the more difficult Dungeons should reward players way much more. Though no path will always be as easy as the other, you gotta admit that CoF 1 is way much easier than any other option, effort and time-wise, which is the theoretical problem in my view, taking away too many players from the alternative options.

See it as me wanting what’s better for everybody. I mean no harm to farmers themselves.

I have almost 2000 hours played time. By cof or orr standard I should make 10,000 gold already. But no I have only made roughly 2000 gold in those 2000 hours. And I’m one of the most dedicated cof farmers, I have found 10 of the jewelcraft recipe from cof.

The reality is Anet wont’ hand people gold for everything they do. If you are expecting Anet to hand people gold for everything they do, it’ll won’t happen.

So the only possible thing Anet might do is nerf the more rewarding content. Now how does nerfing cof affect you at all? If you don’t want to farm dont’ farm. If you want to play anyway you want then do it.

Star Ace.5207:

See it as me wanting what’s better for everybody. I mean no harm to farmers themselves.

So are you expecting reward “in terms of gold” buff from other dungeon? Since that “most likely” won’t happen.

So only thing left is nerf. How does nerfing affect you? Make you felt better those other farmer need to grind more?

And really what is the reward in the end? Only reason to farm that much is to buy skins, convenient or fluffy item, or just hoarding gold to be warren buffet of GW2.

And believe me, I dont’ even care if cof is nerfed. I’m just voicing my opinion. If you are expecting everything you do online to have equal amount of reward in terms of “gold”, it’ll never happen.

Star Ace.5207:

See it as me wanting what’s better for everybody. I mean no harm to farmers themselves.

How dare you think and try to decide that you know what is better for me.

I can make such decisions for my self thank you very much.