Guild Wars 2

I just want to say that I completely agree with all points you’ve made in this thread. Even though I love collections, I feel that something is missing. It’s the lore and immersion part.

I like this thread. Gives me ideas.

With what you’ve said in mind, here’s some rough concepting for a kind of collection that I would like to see (item names and locations used are for illustration purposes only):

Forlorn Shovel Collection (reward is forlorn shovel “it sparkles with the weight of aged abandonment”). Components:

Broken Shovel
Glob of Discarded Ectoplasm
Krait Tears
Asuran All-Purpose Adhesive

Now for the meatier part (the retrieving the items):

In addition to the existing UI for looking at what you need, there would be an NPC you go and talk to. This NPC not only gives you hints for where to find the items (the same hints that the UI does) but he will even send you an NPC mail with information, if you choose “Can I get that in writing?”

Further, add a new feature where you can mail specific collection items to specific NPCs. This idea might sound odd at first, but you already receive mail from NPCs for specific events. Theoretically, if the framework is there for receiving mail from NPCs, it might be there for sending mail to them.

The point of this would be, if you are out in the middle of nowhere working on your collection, you don’t have to go allllll the way back to the NPC to turn in the item. Turning in the item would be a special aspect of this kind of collection. Owning the item would unlock it in the collection as normal, but instead of selling to a generic merchant, you give it to the NPC, who (major brainstorming incoming) gives you a Badge of Collection. Badges of Collection can be used to buy a consumable item called a Metal Detector (with some GW2-ized version of that name). Metal Detector acts like the SW shovels, except instead of seeking out Bandit Chests, it seeks out collection items in your area. Which brings me to…

The items for this collection would all be retrievable from the ground/terrain. You wouldn’t need the Metal Detector, but it would help you locate the items without a guide.

Broken Shovel – at one of the farms in Queensdale
Glob of Discarded Ectoplasm – you find in one of the dead ends in the jump puzzle in LA
Krait Tears – one of those rotted structures that hangs over water
Asuran All-Purpose Adhesive – found in one of the crafting areas in Rata Sum

When the collection is finished (for this type of collection) you get an item like “Proof of Forlorn Retrieval,” which you can then either mail or hand over to the NPC in person. The NPC then gives you back the Forlorn Shovel, with some fun exposition about the effort it took or the properties of the item.

These would not replace the other kind of collection and you would not be forced to do them in the immersive way if you didn’t want to, but the option would be there and the focus of the collection would be purely on exploration and retrieval. No RNG and no change in acquisition throughout the collection.

I completely agree. And this is one of the best written posts I’ve read.

This should be getting more attention. I love the collection structure because it helps me manage skins (“what Vigil weapons do I still need?”), but some of them, like you say, feel a bit lacking.

The elite collections especially are huge. My main is a Guardian, so starting Dragonhunter began the Ydalir collection. But now all I need to do is grind for components and pray for exotic accessory drops; there’s no lore reason or in-game reason for my character to be doing any of this.

Suggestion: keep collections, but add more lore to them and make them into sort of “quests.” Make the individual collection components rewards for mini tasks that together make up the quest. Completion of the quest rewards the final weapon. Less RNG, less grinding, more immersive, more rewarding at each stage, bigger sense of accomplishment.

For example, maybe the Ydalir Quest is given by a blacksmith NPC in Hoelbrak. So a couple of steps down the collection, we arrive at the Icy Dragon Scale. Give us a reason to search for this item in the first place (“I must imbue the components of this bow with the energy of winter itself. Legends say that in ancient times a dragon once perished on the frosted peak of a distant mountain. Retrieve one of its scales for me.”). Rather than simply purchasing this from Rojan for 0 karma (i.e. waste of time, breaks immersion, relatively pointless) instead make us do the Shattered Ice Ruins jumping puzzle and award the scale at the end, similar to the Vial of Sacred Glacial Water needed for Mawdrey.

This system would make the entire process more rewarding and more exciting, and once we finished the collection we would receive a unique item that we truly earned rather than simply grinded for.

Fantastic post. I do think that the original lot of Collections such as “Dungeoner” really nailed the potential that “Collections” can have. They made relatively quiet, dead areas of maps or entire maps get player traffic but also kept players on the map waiting for a particular event as an example. Newer collections, the best example of which I have now is for “Legendary Weapon Collections”. I can’t account for every Legendary weapn/precursor collection but I am doing the Juggernaut precursor collection at the moment. That collection experience is going to a specific place and hitting “F” or “/ponder”.

I don’t have to write what many people are doing and experiencing. I have to admit that that method of doing things is kitten ed boring and doesn’t entice. interest, or engage. What is supposed to be a legendary Collection (yes, lower-case “l”) that teaches the player a history, a story with the gravitas of these fabled items that many of us have worked & yearned to have for 3 years.

Now for The Colossus precursor collection, there are around 40-50 places to visit all over Tyria to ponder. I’d much rather have 10 places to go and not simply /ponder. I want story – say /sitting by a fire in a Norn Homestead at night. It’s nighttime and the patriarch/martriarch of this particular Norn homestead weaves a story, a fable of a great warrior or an acclaimed blacksmith. And /sitting there listening to that story, I learn a bit more about my precursor or the hallowed weapon that I am on this quest for.

Perhaps I hoped for too much but even a watered down version of that example is more interesting/engaging than what the precursor collection currently is. Players are hungry for this kind of content. Which ANET obviously is aware of because they created Legendary Collections. ANET has the concept of such a collection/quest but the execution is just that – the death of my curiousity and of doing anymore of this collection/quest. It has as much depth and emotional impact as buying a Legendary weapon in the TP.

Thanks for the interest guys, I’m glad there are many opinions on this.

This is why I didn’t really understand collections from the get-go. I thought it would be a sort of niche interest for some players that like to “catch ’em all” (with reference to mini collections for example).

Then collections started to become more and more prevalent, and here we are. I never thought I’d bother with collections myself as a player, but seeing as they’re so central, I’ve jumped over the hurdle and started playing the UI. Is it immersive? Not at all. Is it good game design for the replacement of quests? Not in my opinion.

That’s something that’s been lacking majorly since launch, that seemed like it may have been making headway way back in Halloween 2012 with the mad king back piece “quest”. The idea of an actual quest system that extends beyond zones (as events are limited), and can be resumed from the same step when a player logs out (one again, something that events cannot do).

I feel like all the posts so far on this thread have been a little one-sided, and I have an urge to offer a dissenting opinion. Maybe I’m just a masochist.

I’ll keep it brief. There’s nothing wrong with your arguments, and you deserve the immersive, connected collections you desire. But given that our definitions of terms like ‘immersive’ and ‘connected’ are subjective, and that we’re each trying to play as we like, it probably won’t surprise you that I like collections that you would deem divorced from the game’s lore/urgency. I am one of those ‘gotta-catch-em-all’ collectors one of the posters mentioned above. I like the scavenger hunt that isn’t directly connected to the lore, like jar collector. Or finding all the lost coins/badges in sw/dry top. My friends and I, who live geographically far apart, enjoy spending time together by taking part in events, fighting bosses and otherwise engaging in the lore – but we also enjoy taking a time out and exploring together, helping each other find those badges or whatever.

So, basically, collections don’t disengage players from Tyria. Your engagement is whatever you want it to be, and takes a form that is entirely subjective to you. Collections are just another avenue to play the game, and I want more, especially dive master. There are so many awesome spots to dive from. I wish they could be added to that achievement (or maybe Dive Master II) and that you could somehow capture and replay those dives.

Someone give this man a beer!

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

I feel like all the posts so far on this thread have been a little one-sided, and I have an urge to offer a dissenting opinion. Maybe I’m just a masochist.

I’ll keep it brief. There’s nothing wrong with your arguments, and you deserve the immersive, connected collections you desire. But given that our definitions of terms like ‘immersive’ and ‘connected’ are subjective, and that we’re each trying to play as we like, it probably won’t surprise you that I like collections that you would deem divorced from the game’s lore/urgency. I am one of those ‘gotta-catch-em-all’ collectors one of the posters mentioned above. I like the scavenger hunt that isn’t directly connected to the lore, like jar collector. Or finding all the lost coins/badges in sw/dry top. My friends and I, who live geographically far apart, enjoy spending time together by taking part in events, fighting bosses and otherwise engaging in the lore – but we also enjoy taking a time out and exploring together, helping each other find those badges or whatever.

So, basically, collections don’t disengage players from Tyria. Your engagement is whatever you want it to be, and takes a form that is entirely subjective to you. Collections are just another avenue to play the game, and I want more, especially dive master. There are so many awesome spots to dive from. I wish they could be added to that achievement (or maybe Dive Master II) and that you could somehow capture and replay those dives.

This is an important point, and one that I’m glad you made. So far the responses have been in agreement with my OP, and perspective is always a factor in these opinion-driven posts. Entertainment is always subjective, and I truly am glad that there are people who enjoy the current implementation of collections.

Someone mentioned on Reddit that their schedule limits them to a situation where heavy story content would be difficult to follow if trying to complete a collection, and I’m sure ANet considers this when creating content. Thanks for offering this perspective!

When GW2 came out, something that was an issue for me, was that there was no real direction.

For example, if I wanted to make a Legendary weapon, it involved lists of things to gather, where to gather them, how to combine them, things I needed to earn vs buy, and so on. In the end, the list was so huge and unorganized, I said screw it, and just decided to act like legendaries didn’t exist. For me in game, they didn’t really.

There was no direction. There was no journey. There was no way IN GAME to know what to do, where to do it, or even what I needed!

Collections, in some ways, have addressed this problem. Recently with the new release I feel like FINALLY, GW2 is providing some direction for players in game, instead of having to refer to a wiki every 5 seconds simply to find something to do that had some purpose.

There are some ways I feel that more direction could be added to the game, without shoving tons of data into the face of players who don’t want anything to do with those goals.

I use legendary weapons for my examples because they are the most well known, and most complicated journey you can make in game to earn something, but my examples below could be used for any journey a player can make in game.

Example: My character decides they want to take on a new journey. (I want to dedicate myself to earning something.) I’m not sure what kind of journey I would like to take on, so I head to my Order’s headquarters. Surely someone there will be able to tell me about journey’s I could take.

Let’s say my character is a member of the Vigil. I go and I talk to the Vigil historian and tell him about my desire to do something meaningful with my life. He offers up some information about Legendary Weapons that I might be interested in. At the end he also says that The Priory and The Order of Whispers might have some journey’s that might interest me, (but of course getting the cutting edge of weaponry is most important, you are a part of the Vigil after all!).

I decide I want to make Bifrost. The historian notes that while I can start my journey for Bifrost with them, because of the elemental powers that it is imbued with, my journey will require me to work with both The Priory and the Asura to obtain everything necessary. Not to mention the amount of time I will need to spend to obtain everything needed to make the physical staff itself, and the training, provided by The Vigil, needed to use it to it’s full potential in battle.

I explain to the historian that this is indeed what I want, and so he sends me on a journey. The first part of my journey, the physical collection for the base weapon prior to imbuing it, is what he gives me. He provides a list of things I will need to collect, and gives me access to The Vigils Hall of Records (or something similar), in which previous members of the Vigil recorded where they got the necessary components. Should I forget where or how to get anything on this part of my journey, I simply return to the Vigil Headquarters and refresh my memory by reading the Records.

Once this is complete, he offers me the recipe to craft the base weapon (also known as a stage 1 precursor!) I craft the weapon. He then says that this is where his knowledge ends and I will need to visit the Priory Archives to continue my journey, then tells me he will see me back for training during the last phase of my journey.

I go and use the Priory archives and talk with one of the Priory’s top enchanters, as well as one of their Scientists. After I complete this phase I am sent to the Asura to do an elemental imbuing required to complete the Precursor. I complete that phase, and am sent to LA to complete a dedication before The Vigil will train me in using my staff and completing my journey. To test my dedication LA sends me out to collect rare and legendary materials throughout the world. I then am directed to take these materials to the Mystic Forge, where due to my dedication Zymoros will finish the conversion of the Precursor into the Legendary Weapon. For the last step I am required to take my weapon back to the Vigil, my own order, to train me in the use of the Bifrost. At this point I complete a simple “training instance,” with Bifrost, after which time Bifrost is permanently unlocked for my account, however I can only have one Bifrost unlocked via this method on my account at any time.

IE, if my Elementalist has Bifrost, but I want to use Bifrost on my Necromancer, I’m required to remove it from my Elementalist prior to using it on my Necro. However by completing a shorter journey, I am able to get additional Bifrosts, all of which are account bound.

Now if a player doesn’t want to do all that, they can always make it the old way. But if a person wants the additional direction, they can follow the “quests” available in game.

This type of collection I think would be beneficial to the game, and the players by allowing them to learn about collectibles they might not have known about, and by allowing them to collect them using information provided directly by the game instead of a wiki, out of game. Thus allowing a player to remain immersed in the game, and inside the story the Journey has created for them. Every Legendary would have a different journey, requiring you to visit different Orders for various reasons, and maybe a race or two which would be contributors to making it.

I think it’s The Moot(?) the disco ball, that would make a great journey learning about and collecting artifacts pertinent to the history of music and dancing in each race. Maybe including things like visiting the piano in Ebonhawke.

Things like the jar collection could be given to you by an Asuran who likes to collect specimens in jars or something. But initially your characters Order, or a Journeyman in LA or any of the starter cities, would provide you with a “rumour” that would send you in the right direction to start the journey you want. Imagine a Krytan based collection, the LA Journeyman might have heard a rumour that The Journeyman in Divinity’s Reach had recently finished a collection of Krytan Historical artifacts and that a Collector had given him a handsome reward for adding to his collection of Krytan artifacts.

TLDR: There are endless possiblities in which Collections could be completed by Journey’s in game, without requiring the extensive need for wiki usage. If a player ever got lost, they could simply return to the last step, or their starter step, and receive a hint or clue as to where to go next. The clues don’t even have to be all that obscure. “There is a skritt in Queensdale that has been rumoured to guard Place of Power. This place of Power can be used to fuse Bloodstone dust into Charged Blood Shards.” So you go and find the hero point in Queensdale guarded by the skritt, and commune with it to charge some bloodstone dust into a shard. If you need multiple shards, then maybe you make 3 of them, one a day for 3 days.

This game is about the Journey of our characters, maybe actually adding real journeys which we can choose to go on would provide the direction some people (many people) need.

Back when it first came out, I had actually stopped playing because I felt like there was no direction in which to go in. Sure I could do anything, but none of it MEANT anything. There was no purpose. Journeys provide that.

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

I feel like all the posts so far on this thread have been a little one-sided, and I have an urge to offer a dissenting opinion. Maybe I’m just a masochist.

I’ll keep it brief. There’s nothing wrong with your arguments, and you deserve the immersive, connected collections you desire. But given that our definitions of terms like ‘immersive’ and ‘connected’ are subjective, and that we’re each trying to play as we like, it probably won’t surprise you that I like collections that you would deem divorced from the game’s lore/urgency. I am one of those ‘gotta-catch-em-all’ collectors one of the posters mentioned above. I like the scavenger hunt that isn’t directly connected to the lore, like jar collector. Or finding all the lost coins/badges in sw/dry top. My friends and I, who live geographically far apart, enjoy spending time together by taking part in events, fighting bosses and otherwise engaging in the lore – but we also enjoy taking a time out and exploring together, helping each other find those badges or whatever.

So, basically, collections don’t disengage players from Tyria. Your engagement is whatever you want it to be, and takes a form that is entirely subjective to you. Collections are just another avenue to play the game, and I want more, especially dive master. There are so many awesome spots to dive from. I wish they could be added to that achievement (or maybe Dive Master II) and that you could somehow capture and replay those dives.

My response is specifically about the Dive Achievement. It has brought an issue to light for me.

Some achievements, such as Dive Master, that require multiple steps or locations or such, don’t actually track which ones you’ve done. It would be nice, if when I clicked the Dive Master achievement, there was a list of diving locations, in which the once I have achieved show up, and I can click on them and it shows them to me on a map. Where as the ones I have yet to find are “locked” and do not show the location, or tell me where it is (though I’m okay with hints, some people are not and I know this.) I just really want a way to track what I’ve done and what I haven’t. I’ve been diving in a lot of places, however many of them were prior to the diving achievement, so I have NO idea which ones I’ve completed for the achieve and which ones I have not.

Being able to track actual progress towards an achievement is important to me.

Maybe not everyone, but the option would be nice.

Insightful and well written OP. I hope this sees the right eyes… I don’t want to see GW2 go too far in the direction of “that game” either.